#one who actually believed belos to be good and the one who believes in the power of friendship

[pollyperks]

so luz went from the girl at school failing her classes with no friends, completely misunderstood by her teachers, other kids, her mom even, to the girl with friends for life (and an awesome girlfriend) who has half the people on the boiling isles show up for her quinceañera because turns out she's a hero and she's found the place she belongs and is understood and completely loved for who she is

willow went from miserable, bullied girl who didn't believe she could do anything right and tried to make herself so small to a natural team leader and complete girlboss (with a cute boyfriend) who just...oozes confidence in everything that she is, there is no way you can look at her and believe people once dared to call her half-a-witch and if anyone did now she could take them to the cleaners except she couldn't care less and the rest of the hexsquad would do it for her anyway

gus went from the kid who didn't think he could do anything right to a confident teacher who gets to show students his passion for the human realm (and he can pop in and out all the time which is the dream!) and being a prodigy is really a gift now, not something that sets him apart and makes him a target but instead an awesome teacher who can empathize with students having a hard time and is just plain cool on top of all that as he teaches them not to eat paperclips

amity went from one dimensional mean girl actually desperately trying to earn her parents' approval to wild, adventure seeking author who made up for who she was, cut ties with her emotionally abusive mother and terrible friends, has a close relationship with her dad now plus the best friends ever (byeeee boscha), and also has an awesome girlfriend as she travels all over the isles doing exactly what she wants with no one controlling her

and wow okay hunter went from the golden guard who obeyed belos' every order out of the insane desire to be needed and special without realizing if he messed up belos was literally growing his replacement because he was always just a copy of someone belos both hated but couldn't let go of haha that's dark to being just hunter who has guardians he doesn't have to flinch away from and tons of friends and he gets to carve palismen just how he wanted and his girlfriend could definitely bench press him and he'll always remember the first friend who ever found him (chose him!!) and saved his life in so many ways THE HEXSQUAD IS SO GOOD I JUST!!!!!!!

[sepublic]

            King really has a whole thing about being seen as a toy, a pet, for people to own and play with without his permission. An object to look nice and pretty and not much else, without any wants or needs of his own.

         So it feels very poetic that he constantly surrounds himself with toys and plushes to command over; King’s whole Tyrant schtick isn’t just a fantasy for him, it’s a way for him to reclaim lost autonomy by exercising his own control. It’s as if King FEELS like a toy, so he commands other toys because he’s essentially one of them. And it reflects on his juvenile nature, not being taken seriously, the revelation that it’s only ever been pretend, etc.

         That makes King’s relationship with Francois very sweet, as a toy from the human world he finds, no thanks to Luz helping him. Luz is someone whose physical cuddling and affections King DOES appreciate, because by the end of the day, Luz respects King as a person and his boundaries. King wants affection actually, but he wants it on his own terms, and there’s a lot of moments where he ‘commands’ Luz and she happily obliges, defends him, etc. Luz is very thoughtful of King’s feelings, and The Intruder is a major episode in which Luz learns to be more mindful of King in general; This of course wins the approval of his father the Titan, who decides to show Luz the light glyph for her kindness.

         But anyhow, King loves Francois and treats him kindly, often as a partner and even equal. So with all I’ve said about King’s toy motif, that transitions perfectly into his dynamic with the Collector. There’s the fact that in their initial interactions, the Collector glomps onto a clearly uncomfortable King, like a child with a pet he doesn’t quite understand is a living creature (and in King’s case, not just a pet either but a person). Dana’s own art encapsulates their relationship by portraying King as a terrified plush that the Collector loves;

         The Collector is also juvenile and loves to play pretend, and treats people like toys, which is exemplified by them transforming victims into literal toys, who are dressed up to look even prettier. But for all their issues with boundaries, the Collector seems to genuinely love and value their toys, kind of like King with Francois.

         This contrasts them with Belos, whom they believe breaks his toys out of fun; That speaks to their different desires, hence the Collector insisting they want to make friends out of others, whereas Belos finds it more simple and satisfying to just destroy his enemies. So the Collector regards his toys as, well, toys; But with a sort of loving respect that a kid who takes good care of their toys and makes sure they’re taken care of does. A projection of feelings and personality… Over the actual feelings and personality that DO exist, but alas.

         But that’s where the Collector’s relationship with King develops, because over the course of two months, they begin to respect and listen to King more, value him as a friend, etc. The Collector is more mindful of King’s boundaries, doesn’t immediately glomp onto him, actually bothers to respond to King’s criticisms. When King says the Owl Beast isn’t ready, they listen, and it’s implied the Collector has known about King visiting Eda and Lilith behind their back, but simply allowed it because friends keeping secrets is totally normal, right? And anyhow, King has been so nice, and they love King so much, they don’t want to call him out and ruin things; He can have this.

         Which leads to Francois, whom King relates to; The toy that the Collector WANTS to cuddle with. But King sets the boundaries that it’s for him (and Luz) only, and the Collector actually listens. He doesn’t touch Francois behind King’s back, and aside from a moment where he has to take it from Belos’ grasp to defend Francois, puts it right back where it belongs. He can’t have Francois, but the Collector can settle for having him BE there, so close and yet so far.

         King is Francois; He’s a beloved toy to the Collector that he loves and appreciates, treats more special than the rest, and practically as a person, a lot of the time. But he’s willing to respect Francois’ boundaries and not play with him when he doesn’t want, just as he does with King, and his visits to his mother and aunt. The Collector obviously has a lot to learn when we check up on them two months later, and King understandably still IS frustrated, hence why he calls out the Collector after the nightmare illusions at the beginning of the series finale…

         But King can tell, as a former, unruly child himself, who was only a non-issue because he lacked the power the Collector wields; The Collector is a kid like him. Who’s also learning. Who ultimately means well. And they’ve proven to be rather receptive over these two months; Not quite there, but if you put in the effort to teach and work with them, King is certain it’ll pay off as it did with him.

         The Collector was a tyrant like King, and like King, a lot of this comes after being helpless because of others as well; The Collector was put into the care of the manipulative Archivists, and later trapped by the Titan. The only way to contact them was with a disc, an object, and their word was exploited by Bill so he could lead the Titan Trappers and finish the genocide of the Archivists. If the Grimwalkers were toys to Belos, so was the Collector, for him to hide away from everyone else, as his own, like a twisted Francois. And when he’s done with the Collector, he drops him into the pit with the rest of the discarded toys he loves to break.

         So like King, the Collector being a tyrant isn’t just the result of kids being kids, it’s also a response to their lack of agency. And tbh, kids in general lack agency, hence why they can be quite unruly troublemakers and rebels, so it makes sense that the Collector also overcompensates, like King does! But both of them learn to be more mindful of boundaries, that their own pain doesn’t justify them doing the same to others, either.

         The Collector notes that King isn’t the only person allowed to touch Francois; There’s also Luz. Luz, the kindly older sister who always listened to King and was attentive to his needs, respected him, and was often desired for physical affection. The Collector wants to BE Luz since King admires her so much, hence emulating her while playing Owl House; And Luz also recognizes their similarities, with the forgiveness she gives the Collector, being a form of forgiveness towards herself for being an ‘unruly’ child.

         And the Collector also grows, has their loss of innocence, but nevertheless matures, as Luz did. They learn about death, just as Luz learned about death when she lost her father; And the Collector technically loses the Titan that night, who was arguably a turbulent father figure who failed them, too, and laments this fact to Luz. The Collector IS Luz, and like Luz in The Intruder, who gains the approval of the Titan with a light glyph, just as the Titan apologizes for the Collector and lends his power to protect them and others…

         The Collector mends their friendship with King and makes it real. They respect and listen to him completely now. And so they get to finally be Luz, not just in their relationship with her, but also in their relationship with King, being allowed to love Francois, even being given him for company by King. Just as Luz is allowed to be King’s friend, and he follows her regularly, even sacrificing himself for her at the end of Season 2.

        King and the Collector are toys who want toys to reverse that dynamic; But in the end, nobody can be a toy. And so they grow up and get to play with actual friends, and be friends to others.

[penny-anna]

been reading a lot of Owl House fanfic lately & have some Hunter Thoughts (long post + cw for discussion of child abuse):

run into the take a couple of times now that the other Coven heads (in particular well-meaning characters like Darius & Raine) should have done more to help Hunter. and while i do agree that uhh almost every adult in the show let Hunter down i have 2 responses to that

FIRSTLY: i could be wrong (i watched s2 in a pretty choppy manner) but i don't think there's any indication that Hunter's abuse is happening anywhere other than behind closed doors. it's very possible that the outward image of Hunter & Belos's relationship is 'this is the emperor's special favourite nephew who he dotes upon'.

it's like. self-evidently the case that Hunter is being neglected emotionally but probably no-one had any reason to think he was in physical danger. remember that most people were under the impression that Belos was a benevolent ruler & the minority who'd figured out what his game could have reasonably assumed that for all his faults he wouldn't hurt Hunter.

Darius expresses concern about his social life but seems to read uhh nothing whatsoever into this interaction:

which suggests to me that he hasn't seen any prior indication of physical abuse & just assumes Hunter is being very dramatic!

(side note i just noticed Flapjack covering his eyes with his wings gdlkjfhglfjh omg Flapjack)

& all of this is very plausible! let's face it not all abusive parents IRL give off obvious red flags to anyone external to the situation.

SECONDLY: to be blunt, the position Belos put Hunter in was such that i don't know if anyone could have helped even if they wanted to.

Hunter being elevated to the position of Head of the Emperor's Coven is clearly an unusual move & one that was made in direct response to Lilith defecting. It's a clear signal that Belos doesn't trust his remaining Coven Heads and wants to keep a closer eye on them. they have good reason to believe that the Golden Guard could u know. report any of them to Belos as a Traitor at any time.

whether Belos would actually automatically believe him is another matter but like, as stated above, they don't know how Belos treats Hunter behind closed doors. for all they know one word from Hunter could get them idk petrified.

their behaviour towards him isn't nice but his presence is both threatening and also kind of insulting. he's wrapped up in the internal politics of the court in a way that makes it difficult to anyone to respond to him with anything other hostility. which is uhh not a position Belos should ever have put his 16 year old ''''nephew'''' into.

for all Darius knows if he starts being nice to the Golden Guard & relaxes in his presence he's gonna end up saying something that'll get back to Belos. he doesn't let down his guard around Hunter until seeing u know. multiple clear signals that he's actually willing to lie to Belos.

like. Hunter is dangerous! bcos we as the audience are so familiar w this Hunter:

easy to forget that most people in the Boiling Isles only know this guy:

he's a very real threat to everyone around him by virtue of being the emperor's Right Hand! just look at how Odalia reacts to him showing up:

people are actively afraid of the Golden Guard & him being 16 doesn't make him any less of a deadly threat. he's functionally untouchable. trying to suggest that hey, maybe the head of the police force shouldn't be a 16 year old boy is liable to get you thrown in the conformatorium.

like. even if someone did put together that Hunter was in danger from Belos what are they gonna do about it? u can't exactly call social services on the God Emperor.

[radiance1]

Pariah Dark. Ghost King. Master of War. Tyrant. The Breaker of Worlds.

Currently found himself... perplexed and at a loss.

He had assumed he would never be free once more, the one-time his punishment was cut short he wrote it off as the mistake it was. A pitiful fool who believed he could claim his crown from his prison without consequences.

The second time.

Well.

He would not have thought himself to be so lucky, assuming that no other would be foolish enough to free him once more.

He most likely should have learned not to assume a lot of things, when one is more than acquainted with the Master of Time. There was a lot he would do and did for the other before his eternal rest, and a lot of things he could've wrapped his mind around, found out the reason for, even so long as he had the clues no doubt left by Time.

But this.

This.

He was not exactly sure what his expression was, he could not even decide what exactly he was feeling, even. "Dearly belo-" Pariah Dark hid his mistake by clearing his throat. "Master of Time, what exactly do you intend for me to do with... these."

'These' referred to the small beasts currently amusing themselves on his body. A pitch-black chick with red eyes currently nesting in his hair, a snake trying to loop itself-and failing at looping- itself around his neck, a puppy currently resting on his arm and a cub currenting trying to get said puppy's attention only to be zapped away by the pup's foot.

Yes.

Zapped.

Despite this utterly befuddling situation, he was amused by it nonetheless.

"Your parole," The Master of Time said, all-knowing smile on his face. "Surely you would know what to do with children, would you not?"

Pariah Dark blinked. "What in the infinite is a parole?" Pariah tasted the word on his tongue, as if it was foreign to him. And, well. It was. "And what, exactly, would that have to do with children?"

The Master of Time's smile eased into faint amusement, as if aware of some joke the king himself was not.

Which happened more often than not, actually.

"Take good care of these children, and you shall be released from eternal sleep." He said, as if that explained everything. But Pariah Dark was staring at him in clear and undisguised puzzlement.

He then raised an eyebrow. "You would leave me alone with children? Truly? With no qualms?"

The personification of Time nodded, and Pariah could blink slowly, as if he had trouble wrapping his head around this. "Dearly beloved, surely you would not think that this-" If Clockwork noticed his slip of the tongue, then he didn't point it out as Pariah Dark continued. "Would be the best of ideas, no? Surely, you should be worrying for their safety."

Clockwork's eyes filled with mirth as he inclined his head slightly. "Well, do you currently hold any thoughts of harming these children?"

Pariah Dark's face gave away his faint confusion. "Not particularly, no."

"Then that is that." The ancient ghost nodded, as if everything was already decided and done as Pariah could only stare at him in unsurprised exasperation before shaking his head.

Perhaps, he should have expected this.

"The one currently making a nest of your hair goes by Vlad, the Pheonix King." Clockwork pointed his staff to the chick in question, who squinted open an eye before nestling further into the king's hair. He then pointed to the snake. "The one currently trying to strangle you, is Danny. Our prince as well as what humans would call an eastern dragon."

The way Clockwork pronounced our had Pariah feeling like it held another meaning and not just him being known as the prince.

Was there something he was not aware of...?

The staff then pointed to the pup dozing off in his arms. "That one," Clockwork said with faint amusement. "Goes by Dan, a fusion between the phoenix and dragon resulted in his creation and he soon became his own entity after becoming secluded from his timeline after its erasure." He said this casually, as if it weren't something that would cause questions. "He is also a Raiju."

How a bird and snake gave way to dog, Pariah does not know.

The staff then pointed to the last child in his arms, trying to bother Dan and being kicked away and zapped for its efforts. "That is Dani, formally Danielle. She is a Mishipeshu who is the only successful clone of the phoenix and dragon, making her our technical princess."

Again, the emphasis of our left Pariah feeling like there was something he should know. A missing piece to a puzzle he didn't even know he had started.

"You said this one was a king, correct?" Pariah asked, shifting around his arms to better support the pup and cub. "Would the phoenix's not take offense to me of all people being the one to raise their ruler?" As soon as the words left his tongue did he remember who exactly he was talking to.

He was met with a vicious smile, one that he did not see until the days of yore. His non-existent heart skipped a beat.

"Well, if they would like to voice their... displeasure." The Master of Time practically purred that sentence out, and Pariah felt something odd shift inside him. "Then they are surely allowed to do so."

Pariah grunted, silent for a few moments. Clockwork moved towards him in that time, and Pariah stood still, only tracking the ghost with his eyes. "I am quite certain you would make a wonderful father, dear-"

Excuse him, dear..?

"-So why not prove me right as you always have, hm?" Pariah Dark blinked, opening his mouth to speak before his mind screeched to a halt as he felt a pair of lips upon his own before they moved away in the next moment.

A ghost of a kiss.

"Now, run along now why don't you." Clockwork had a mischievous glint in his eyes, before Pariah found himself surrounded by a wide pasture, spanning as far as his eyes could see (and he could see very far) and at the end a forest with a house behind him.

But he could not react, even as he felt pecks upon his head, a bite at his ear and most surely the scratching of claws against his form.

His hair burst into green flames as he stood stalk still.

[eldritch-spouse]

It’s December, so mistletoe - who in the tce would actually kiss us if we hold some over our head? 

Is it possible for Krulu and Nebul to at least give us a peck on the forehead maybe 🥺

Most!

Morell rolls his eyes at your corny shenanigans but gives you whatever little peck you want and ruffles your hair.

Gallon actually kind of wants to see you get cheeky with your mistletoe placement, seeing as it's usually him who comes up with inconspicuous places to trap you under one. You get as many kisses as you want if you manage to trick him.

Vinnel is also very happy to see you trying to trick him, although he's a lot less likely to accept genuine kisses. You can peck his mask, he'll even make a little face for you. In days he feels a lot safer about his consistency, he'll give you a gross sloppy lap to the face and cackle at your discomfort before putting his mask back on.

Santi is practically begging to be trapped under a mistletoe. Please trap him. You're going to get the sloppiest, nastiest makeouts and he s going to grope you all over, maybe grind you on him. You might want to not trick Santi so much, for your own good. He will try to put a mistletoe over his dick.

Grimbly pretends to fall for most of your attempts. Oops, you got hiiiim, now lean down so he can peck you. He's soooo ditzy, oh he stumbled under another one, nooo way! You're spoiling him with so much affection he's vibrating.

Belo cannot kiss you, but he humors the harmless little game, even if he doesn't truly understand the meaning behind it. You can kiss him and he'll nuzzle against you or make a pleased coo. It's... Not a bad lesser tradition, he can get used to it.

Patches is easy to fool purely because he's distracted, Stitches not so much. Although, you have to get creative, because after giving you your kiss, Patches will burn the mistletoe with undead fire, forcing you to pick your moments very well.

Nebul can't kiss you. You know this, right? He's staring at you as if something is a bit off with your faculties. Feel free to kiss the back of his hand or, if he's feeling generous, other parts of him...

Sybastian actually might try to eat it first. Then his brain clicks on and he realizes what's in his mouth, mleming it back out before he can get a very not fun gastrointestinal episode. He's legitimately kind of clumsy about it, you'll catch him many times, and get a sloppy lap up the chest and face as a reward.

Fank-e is well aware of every mistletoe and he will gladly trap himself. Although he takes it as an extremely competitive game and outdoes you by a longshot. He can't even kiss properly, but he's keeping a score and you're getting absolutely rekt. Skill issue, now give him a kiss.

Krulu blinks at you. The festivities must be getting to your brain if you believe he's not aware of every single mistletoe you placed around. Do stop sulking, this is ridiculous. Although he's not too fond of the gesture overall, you get one kiss on the mouth at the end of the day, a consolation prize. That's not to say you don't get more attention of different sorts before said kiss.

[absolutedestinyapocalypsse]

Raine is the embodiment of trying to fix the system from the inside, of the idea that is taught to us by people in power that the institutions that are designed to hurt us are neutral, and need only be wielded by the right people. If the finale of the show is trying to teach how you dont owe forgiveness and kindness to people who dont want to change, Raine's part of the story exemplifies how even the kindest, most forgiving person can be rendered helpless by these institutions if they try to fight from within them, how sometimes the very institutions we accept as given in our word dont deserve our forgiveness either, don't deserve our hope that they will change for the better, because they were always designed to hurt people.

Raine became head witch because they wanted to be a mentor, to help- this intention is never muddied or changed at any point in the series (this is very important- Raine is not corrupted by the power or position, it's not a matter of good people becoming bad with power, its a matter of good people being unable to do good within the system)

It's an isolating job- it appears to be them alone against the covens and belos. But the most effective change we seen them enact is not through their status as a coven head- something they are not comfortable or suited for as someone who "can't stand an audience"- its done through the CATTS, a group outside the coven system designed to persuade and help people against the throne. They get to wear a mask, get to perform in a way that makes them comfortable get to overcome their fear in a group setting. The CATTS organize in a very realistic way, and through them Raine meets Eda again, comes closer to the love and community they lost around the time when they joined the Bard coven.

But then, the plan changes- they go under cover. Pretend theyre working with the emperor until the last moment, use their status as a coven head to change the outcome of the day of unity. Whe they're doing that, they have to very publically denounce all of their beliefs, and behave as if the system that's trapping them is good. They aren't actually being controlled at this point, but the nature of the plan is such that they have to act like an arm of the emperor, going against everything they believe in. So, in a very real, non-magic way, they still are being controlled.

And the plan ends up being a disaster. All that work, all that deep cover planning, none of it stopped the day of unity from happening. Meanwhile, Raine's spent all this time- what was probably their last opportunity to reconnect with Eda and build back a damaged relationship before the world ended-compromising their beliefs and behaving as a propaganda machine for Belos. It appears, at the beginning of season 3, that Raine has given up everything- their autonomy, their friends, their love- for nothing. So, of course Belos picks them to possess- he's so used to Raine being a puppet in every other way. They have inadvertendly made themself a vessel for the will of the emperor through trying to stop him.

And now, they have another internal battle to fight- one over direct control over their own body (I don't think it's a coincidence that the biggest trans character in the show has this struggle, but thats for later.) What has been more of a symbolic or ideological control for all of the series becomes an inescapable physical control, one that they fight with every inch of their being to overcome. And they do overcome it- they push Belos out- but it doesn't stop him. Just like how it was being a coven head, being a tool for Emperor Belos didn't actually give Raine the power to stop him, it just put them in close enough proximity to him to be hurt more.

It's meaningful that they finally do get to take down Belos when he's without the system he build to prop himself up and put down others, literally ripped from the heart of the titan- nothing but a manipulative pile of goo. It's meaningful that they do it surrounded by friends and allies and lovers, and it's meaningful that they get to enjoy it, after all this time scratching at the surface and trying to change the coven system for the better, the thing that finally destroys it- destroys Belos is an alliance- a found family- curb stomping him into oblivion.

[probablyhuntersmom]

I hadn't spotted these a year ago:

Oh my god, guys???!!! Parallels:

2. These are the same face - the Depression Face.

It tugs at my heart like nothing else, because...

3. Oooh never paid attention to this:

4. These lil' guys were moving and animated while sleeping here, aww:

5. The screenshot below, to me, is foreshadowing that Hunter may have expressed his wish to study at Hexside...but once that wish is actually granted, he too is gonna be depressed - at school, specifically - for months, and frustrated that he simply cannot be enthusiastic about classes the way he initially hoped. He'll push and push himself and judge himself for why he "can't even" enjoy lessons he's supposed to be excited about:

6. Do you think they took Hunter to the zoo's bird hall, before he carved Waffles (I personally view it as a good element of exposure therapy)? :

7. People usually put the S1 screenshot of Luz drawing light glyphs, next to the one with Flapjack fading away...but I saw this too:

It makes me wanna chew extra recycled cardboard about Luz and Flapjack parallels, specifically. Because of what they both offered to the world, if you think about it:

8. If Camila went through an outfit change like this in her nightmare:

Imagine the mayhem of Hunter's many nightmares with his many outfits :S

9. A really good reference for how Hunter healed pre-timeskip, is this sequence, where the order has been altered a bit below:

(who knows, maybe Willow recorded a lot of vids of him on her scroll T___T)

10. Wow this sums up the show doesn't it:

11. Ugh you can't tell me that...they wouldn't have had a similar-ish mirror scene with Waffles and older Hunter to these, if we had a full S3 or more seasons:

Him approaching a mirror with no palisman beside him...I can't imagine how that was in those horrible months. (Maybe he does this before heading out to conduct a Palisman Adoption Day)

12. I feel really happy, confidently believing that he unlearned this body language:

in the presence of adults, especially his new parental figures. Coercive control wasn't a dominating theme in his life anymore. And while we didn't see it onscreen, he would've found the space to even initiate connection via physical touch with his parents, like what Luz naturally does here:

I say "physical touch" specifically, because to quote @idlescree's amazing video analyses, Hunter's own physical body - not just his mind - was the ultimate and most intimate battleground for Belos to exert control, by possessing Hunter and using him as a puppet in the most direct way possible. So for Hunter to get physically close to family to express love after Flapjack's death, in spite of terrible spooky thoughts that he might still gravely injure others...that isn't a small feat at all.

13. I think his casual sweater is a plain gold colour, and his cosplay outfit has its yellow colour: because he's still influenced by Belos.

The black of the wolf tee and in the cosplay, feel to me like foreshadowing of his post-possession grief. Even after Flapjack is gone, Hunter still thinks about Belos and is still walking around in the same cosplay outfit. His newfound freedom and healing is reflected in his timeskip design (calm midtones of orange and blue): when Belos has no more hold on him via a painful history. We would see a progression from the predominant darkness of the black colour to those peaceful midtones on his clothing.

14. Best one saved for last! It's a headcanon, but I draw a few connections. @childlikegoblinqueen and I were talking about him likely returning to the place where poor Flapjack was slain, even if it takes a number of years before he can do so. Waffles will be with him.

Imagine...instead of running frantically in the night:

he calmly strolls during a beautiful Halloween evening, with autumn leaves blowing in the wind once again:

There are no horrors awaiting him, and very importantly, he can believe that.

And he visits the spot at the lake, and puts his hand to his chest:

but for once, he can smile while doing that specific gesture. All the times that he has put a hand to his heart in the show, he wasn't smiling (link). He then leaves and then returns to his family (walking in the opposite direction of the portal above) to have an actually joyful Halloween celebration.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

I don't know if you were asked this before or already addressed it before, but what do you think of the argument that Belos' death was supposed to be anticlimatic

See, the problem with these arguments is that it assumes that people who were disappointed with Belos' death wanted a grand, epic battle when in reality, everyone that I've spoken to wanted him to suffer more. We wanted him to go out screaming, realizing that all he did for centuries was for nothing, since that was what the previous episodes were building up to. That's not grandiose, that's even more pathetic than what we got in canon.

Belos' death is anti-climactic because for two episodes, the show was expanding on his background, making him see ghosts or hallucinations, lashing out at the idea of being wrong when he sees "Caleb," all of this suggested that this would play into his ultimate undoing. Instead, we get Luz-With-Anime-Powers yank him off the Titan heart and then he melts in the rain. Cool.

What was the point of the previous episodes then?

Anti-climaxes can work if there is a point to them, be it comedic or tragic. But there was no point to how Belos died. Luz didn't need to learn anything about herself in order to earn the Titan powers, she didn't use anything she learned about the Wittebanes against Belos in the final battle, all that happened is that the Titan told her she's a good witch and to stop comparing herself to someone Obviously Evil like Belos. Great character moment there.

Hell, nothing about Belos played in his death. Not his backstory. None of his lies. Nothing. It just happens. Giving a megalomaniac an undignified death or defeat can work though. Just look at Ozai. He built himself as the Supreme Ruler of the World, as the Phoenix King. He sees himself superior to all others and uses everyone--even his own children as pawns. So to have him be defeated by the Avatar, by an Air Nomad child, who doesn't even give him the dignity of killing him in battle but by taking away the ultimate symbol of his power, his bending, works because it's the antithesis of everything Ozai believes in.

But Belos' death has nothing to do with him as a character or his beliefs. The idea that he needs an undignified death to bring down the megalomaniac doesn't work because Belos has suffered nothing but indignities since he got slammed into a wall. He's been dying for several episodes, lost his human form and the world he knew and loved is long gone and none of this is used against him in the final episode.

In fact, Belos' death actually supports his ideology: for centuries, he's believed that witches are evil and inferior to humans. And he justified all the evil he's done in the name of the greater good: of defeating what he saw as evil. So, picture the scene, you have a rapidly dying man who is no longer a threat to anyone, who is trying to reach out to the one person he thinks is moral by virtue of her species, only to be stomped on by beings who proudly proclaim that they are in fact, immoral.

Congrats gang. You just let the evil bigot die with his feelings justified.

Even how he died doesn't make narrative sense because we've seen him rebuild himself from a droplet and King even mentions some being stuck between his toes. How is it this fight is what finishes him off for good? He's both progressively weaker in each episode and yet is able to outrun (or out crawl) both the Hexsquad after entering the portal and Raine in the castle and possess the Titan heart. Plus, despite having possessed the literal Titan's heart, that equated to having just enough power to transform into his younger self and then get melted by the rain. Ok then.

So let's say that Belos' death works for meta reasons; that evil and bigotry should be given anticlimactic deaths. Ok fine, but it's still disappointing and boring af to watch. Giving a bigoted villain a gruesome, over the top, and entertaining death doesn't mean you suddenly validate the villain's ideals, just look at Raiders of the Lost Ark and its melting Nazis.

Also, unpopular opinion, but The Owl House is not about bigotry; it doesn't say anything about where it comes from, what perpetuates it, how people fall into it, how it can be stopped, etc. The writing is too inconsistent and the world building is too flat for any kind of deep or compelling themes. Instead, it has the grotesquely simplistic idea that "Bad Man Cause Bad Things. Get Rid of Bad Man and Bad Things Go Away."

And that's ultimately why Belos' death doesn't work; because The Owl House never had anything deep to say. It's a fun, escapist fantasy that wants to have deeper themes but can't commit to them. Anything "real" a person might interpret is largely projection because the show is too ineffectual in exploring its own world building and characterization beyond surface level meanings.

[juliettedunn]

Do you think Belos is not as complex as his fans makes him out to be?

I don’t think it’s a case of more or less complex, it’s that a lot of Belos stans mischaracterize him to the point they make him a different character. The stans ironically completely erase what makes Belos, Belos.

The “Belos” a lot of Belos stans present is the guise he wears to manipulate others and himself, hiding his actual character and nature beneath.

Belos is one of my favorite villains, because he manages to be a truly reprehensible villain with no redemption in sight, while also having a lot of layers to his psychology. He’s a villain whose thought process/general psychology I find fascinating to think about, as I think it’s quite well-written and reflective of people like him in real life.

There’s this perception that in order to be interesting, a villain has to be sympathetic or redeemable in some capacity.

It’s popular to give villains sympathetic motives or backstory, and even redeem them, to avoid the simplistic “I’m doing evil things because I’m evil” type.

And this type of villain can absolutely work, it’s just not necessary for every story, or for a good villain. You can have a complex, layered villain whose psychology is fascinating to think about, without them actually being sympathetic in any way.

Belos doesn’t think “I’m doing evil things because I’m evil.” He justifies himself with a twisted line of thought built around his own selfishness, insecurities, immaturity, and possessiveness, as well as the Puritan ideology he embraced.

A big part of his character is that he warps reality in his own mind to suit his needs. That’s why his mindscape is literally layered, with the beautiful, heroic paintings at the start hiding the true, ugly memories. He isn’t just lying to other people; he’s lying to himself. He’s so caught up in his own delusions and persecution complex, he’s lost sight of reality and starts to be confused by his own lies, built into the very structure of his mind.

The show makes it clear how his view of the world, that he is an oppressed victim, is delusion. It shows Caleb embracing his brother warmly in the Boiling Isles, despite the aggression he displays. It shows people were friendly and trusting during the time period he arrived, and only lashed out at him once he began to kill and oppress, like the demons avenging their brother Blue Fang. His fake child disguise used to manipulate Luz is shed to reveal the true sinister man underneath as his real inner self.

His misery is of his own making. He killed Caleb, he refused to change. Even after four hundred years, he refuses to do anything but whine about what witches and demons took from him, despite the fact he was always the aggressor.

Belos’s story is the story of a man driven by an extreme selfishness, a desire for coddling and protection, to have everything revolve around him and his needs, at the same time as he claims to want to purge the sins of others for being selfish and evil. A man who is so caught up in his layers of lies and manipulation, he himself loses sight of what he believes, and eventually descends into crawling, whining slime. It’s a pathetic end that is his own fault.

But Belos stans want to ignore the story being told in favor of believing the simple narrative he presents at face value - that he was a mistreated kid whose brother abandoned him to cruelty and persecution on the Boiling Isles. They take the story to be a simple “tragic orphan was wronged and now he’s bitter” instead of an exploration of the psychology of this kind of truly reprehensible human being, who absolutely does exist.

The thing they portray is fine for a character story, but it’s not Belos. It’s so blatantly missing the entire point of his character, that they might as well just create an oc.

We have to shed this idea that a complex villain means a sympathetic one. You can have a rich, layered character who has basically always been a piece of shit, and remains so. Sometimes those are the best villains out there, depending on the themes of the story.

So no, Belos isn’t less complex than they make him out to be. He’s just a different character entirely.

[abelle25125]

a comprehensive list of all things sus about Adrian Graye

ok so i have been slightly obsessed with the illusion coven head since his introduction in hunting palisman, but now that we’ve had an episode with him as an actual character there are some things about him that feel super suspicious and i’m going to try my best to explain them here

1:Despite being the head of the illusion coven, We never actually see him cast any illusions. 

When we’re first introduced to him when he tries to trick the school into joining coven he mentions that the illusion of him was cast by a different coven scout

“Tom, that Adrian illusion was lacking a certain, hmm? You get me?”

and given his need to yell for the illusion to end rather than just stopping it himself, we can assume that he wasn’t in control of the illusion in that scene.

 We can probably apply this logic to his later scene with the fake willow and Belos  - as we’ve seen in the past that illusions need a constant focus when cast by a witch, and he seemed a bit too concentrated on bullying his actors and kicking hunter in the back of the head to be casting anything.

Him snapping his fingers and the Belos illusion vanishing could either be read as him dispelling the illusion or calling of the two Guards behind it, but given the lack of evidence towards the spell belonging to him, im choosing to believe the latter. 

this leads us onto the next few points:

2: He casts spells without drawing a circle and 

3: the only two times he draws a spell circle, he does so while holding/using his magical amplifier  

in his first scene after Gus calls out the fake Adrian, we see him hand off his coffee cup and then in a poof of smoke - appears next to and grabs Gus. you cant touch illusions, so neither of those were fake, which means that, without drawing a spell circle he’s teleported across the room. 

We only see him draw a spell circle twice in the entire episode, the first time he literally uses the magical amplifier to draw it, and the second time he’s holding it. 

now these first three points could just be explained by saying “oh he’s the coven head he’s super powerful at illusions he probably doesn't need to concentrate or draw circles or whatever” but then even ignoring all that there’s -

4: this man is waaay to focused on the looking glass ruins 

Graye was sent to Hexside by Belos to brand the children, but the moment the illusion stuff kicks off and he sees the looking glass ruins he abandons that plan to hunt down gus and figure out where the graveyard is. His reasoning is that the galderstones would be good gifts for belos, but are they worth abandoning his mission for? 

the reasoning could just be that he’s figured that the branding mission was a bust and hes in the panic of ‘i need to please my boss so he doesn’t kill me for failing so bad’ and wants to make it up for him, but then why does he seem to be happier when he sees that the galderstones are intangible 

either way - this is not the face of a super confident person who has everything under control

The looking glass ruins have come up a few times now in relation to the EC, and based on how good TOH is at setting up plot lines - it feels like they’re building it up to be more important than it seems. 

then of course theres the one that a bunch of people are talking about 

4: He got his ass handed to him by Gus’ memory bubble

that shit fully incapacitated him, like he was still knocked out , fully catatonic later on, like - not even hunter got knocked down by this and he’s gone through some shit  - and Graye’s comments about bad memories feel way to prominent to just be a passing comment.   

Theres been a fun trend of all the coven heads being ironic in some way , a bard with stage fright, a plant head who loves killing ect; so having an illusionist who’s been lying about something to get where he is today could be really fun 

so whats up with this guy? lets figure it out- yeah he’s a basilisk 

- similar fangs, tail and :3 face

- similar hair styles

- same blue teleportation magic 

- including the inspector from the first day we’ve only seen 4 of the 5 basilisks

- Basilisk number 4 even has the same hair squiggle as Graye

theres kinda just a weird amount of evidence supporting this theory, it’s probably not true, and if it is, probably wont have a lot of plot relevance, but i cant help but think theres something else going on with this guy. He’s the only coven head who’s showed up by himself in an episode so far, and there’s just a lot of details and potentially foreshadowing stuff happening around him. 

this ended up being way longer than i planned so kudos on reading all the way through

[featherlikescartoons]

A brief-ish Analysis on the most important scene in For the Future lore: The Collector's Story

I needed a place to ramble, so here we go

To start off with, the cover of the actual book is much simpler and more childish than the symbol we've seen in the past:

So this book was probably made for this Collector specifically, or any young Collector to learn about their species. I'd also like to comment on the fact that while the book may look impossibly long, the stone pages coupled with the large font greatly shorten it. This doesn't mean it's not long, just not as long as it first appears.

This isn't important, just thought I'd point it out.

Moving on:

The contents of the book

This scene confirms something very important, there were other Collectors

and from the looks of it, they weren't very nice. More on that in a moment

The people depicted here are probably the ancestors of the Titan Trappers, seeming to worship the Collectors. But considering the Collector's tendency to wipe out anyone in their path, this isn't surprising. They seem to gain followers through fear, the type of fear they twist into awe and worship.

I find this especially interesting because Belos gained followers in a similar manner, fear turned to worship. First of all, I'd like to acknowledge they are still very different. Belos's rise to power came about through manipulation and making everyone believe he could lead them to a better future, while the Collectors probably scared everyone into submission with the idea they could take down any who go against them in an instant.

But while their origins are different, they grow into something very similar. By season 1 and 2, Belos was forcefully gripping at control and using his powerful position to either capture any who rebel, and to invoke worship in the rest. Maybe I'm reading too far into it, I don't know.

Additionally, each group were trying to destroy an opposing species. Belos with witches and The Collectors with Titans

Long story short, The Collectors inspired fear and turned it into worship. Belos did something kind of similar. Also, Boscha and Kikimora also established a tyranny in this episode. Just some food for thought

Back to the book, the section that the Collector crossed out hold some heavy implications.

("But should they meddle in our affairs, we'll clean the planet and scorch the air")

Not just the ones who opposed them, the planet itself.

The Boiling Isles would be an empty mass of boiling sea if it weren't for the titan's carcasses. Without them, there would be nothing there. What if this is because the Collectors reset the planet, burning away anything that once rose above the sea and raising the ocean's temperature to boiling levels in the fire.

Or at least that's my interpretation

So, based on the information we have, the Collectors may or may not have had the power to wipe out an entire planet. Yet, they seem to have been completely wiped out alongside the titans, except for just one of their young.

We know a titan was the one that sealed away our Collector, so we can assume that it was an evenly matched battle, the two species wiping each other out. (King and our Collector probably can't reproduce, so their as good as extinct)

Okay, at this point, we've figured out a rough theory on the Collector's history, but how does our Collector play into this?

It's made very clear that our Collector isn't fond of his predecessors. He's a kid with a lot of power and was probably bored by the other's ideas of doom and gloom and the tendency to destroy anything interesting.

So our Collector decided to start doing things his own way. It's clear he didn't decide to step away from the old ways out of sympathy, rather, it was because he's a bored, lonely kid who wants to do interesting stuff like play and make friends.

Does he have any role in the destruction of his species? We don't know. Personally, I think he was placed in the mirror when he was really young, leaving him with nothing but vague memories and a book to get to know his predecessors by.

I believe this because it would parallel him more with King, both of them not being able to remember their species.

I think if the Collector learned to listen to king, they could form a really nice, genuine friendship

[sepublic]

            It’s wild to me that the storyboards for Watching and Dreaming depict Odalia taking Camila’s place during this scene, and at a notable distance from the kids here, no less…

         It really makes me wonder if the original plan was for Odalia to use the light glyph to awaken the kids from their puppet states, hence the setup of her being in the Archives as the Collector’s servant. She would’ve helped the kids save the people of the Demon Realm, perhaps realizing that her way of life was simply unsustainable, and that she contributed to Belos possessing the Boiling Isles as both knowing bystander and supporter.

         They’d ultimately succeed, but Odalia being at a distance from the kids implies that they don’t ever forgive her; They won’t go out of their way to kill Odalia, nor keep her from improving as a person. But they don’t owe her personal forgiveness, which I appreciate. We may still have some variation of this scene where Amity reunites with Alador;

        Odalia may or may not be salty, but it still reminds the viewer that even after all that, Amity rightfully doesn’t forgive Odalia, and chooses Alador; While Odalia is visibly upset, but can’t do anything about this but just maintain distance and accept it (Hence why she looks so awkward and closed-off, compared to Camila rejoicing with the kids in the final product).

         That makes me wonder if we would’ve seen her in the epilogue, with the group shot depicting Odalia notably isolated from the rest of her family, instead besides Tibbles or something like that, as redeemed capitalists (maybe we should put her at the top left). Her redemption IS accepted, but not by her family members, who still maintain a distance;

         Odalia improving herself could also be a way to emphasize one of the themes of the finale; That people can and should be allowed to change, but also they must choose to do so for themselves. Having Odalia be a contrast to Belos would’ve further hammered in that idea; They’re both detested by the fandom as abusive, controlling parents who mold their kids into the image of someone else, are complicit in the same genocide (to varying degrees), represent a particular real-world social ill, etc. Both claim to act on behalf of their families, but it’s clear they’re actually just self-interested.

         These parallels highlight that the main difference between these two, why Belos is killed unmourned while Odalia has hopes for a brighter future, is that Odalia actually chose to change. It’s Restorative VS Retributive Justice taken to its natural conclusion; The fact that Odalia is much younger, and thus has turned down far less chances to turn back, also contributes to why she’s actually willing to change, as she hasn’t doubled down the same way Belos did, while still being guilty of some heinous things (Note that Blight Industries, as an arms manufacturer, always got its wealth off of the expectation that others will be hurt and even killed; It’s blood money).

         It may also add to the Collector’s story; They’ve failed to redeem Belos, so it’d be easy to believe that their compassion is an inherent mistake, as is giving others a chance, the agency to decide for themselves, etc. So when Luz reassures the Collector that they DID do good… Well, they end up going to the Archives to prevent it from collapsing. And THAT leads to the Collector potentially seeing Odalia, maybe being wary after what happened with Belos (Odalia and Belos are both adults who sought to exploit the Collector for their own ends)…

         But the Collector doesn’t let Belos ruin their compassion and accepts Odalia’s change, even if they personally may not forgive her (They have less of a past with Odalia than the other kids, so it’s not as unlikely). Just as Gus felt like his kindness was taken advantage of, only to be reminded afterwards that it’s still worth it in the end when Hunter does reciprocate, we could’ve gotten something like that with the Collector and Odalia.

         And on another note, I also wonder if this was the writers’ way of addressing criticisms regarding how Odalia was handled in Clouds on the Horizon, by providing a sympathetic side to her character as compensation; We’re reminded in the episode right after that Eda still remembers her as a stand-offish friend and not an Evil Child, instead of the writers doubling down by excluding Odalia from that flashback. Eda thinks she’s about to die here, but the memory of who Odalia once was is included to comfort her alongside other childhood companions, reminding us she wasn’t always like this and isn’t pure evil (not without working to become that at least).

         But by the end of the day, it seems the writers opted to exchange Odalia’s role for Camila having more of a story in the finale, and tbh… I think that’s the right call, I agree with them there. This is the series finale to a show that’s ultimately about Luz, our main protagonist, and it’s why the finale places particular emphasis on Luz, and her relationship with her fellow main protagonists Eda and King. If they did take the Odalia route, I think we still would’ve seen Camila reunite with Luz at the Owl House, meet Eda and King, etc. But…

         Camila is Luz’s mother, and their relationship is the inciting, beginning incident of the series. To see it all start because Camila was worried for her daughter, only to finally encounter a worst-case scenario with Luz despite everything she did to improve… and emphasizing her reaction to it, how Camila handles herself, picks herself up because as much as it hurts, she’s got other kids to look after? Just as Camila picked herself up after Manny’s death for Luz’s sake? Or kept herself strong in Yesterday’s Lie for Vee? Good stuff.

         It wraps up Camila’s storyline more nicely, as someone whom we began the series with Luz; Camila is more important than Odalia, so I don’t blame the writers at all for prioritizing her. Odalia having a redemption of sorts likely would’ve felt too rushed, and while she contributes to the narrative of Belos, the Collector, and Amity, Camila contributes to Luz’s story and thus takes precedent, especially at this point in the story.

        Especially since some have criticized TOH’s handling of characters of color; The crew has shown themselves responsive to these points, hence Luz and Camila’s hair changing in S3. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the criticism of white characters being prioritized over PoC stuck, and contributed to them having Odalia get shafted for Camila, rather than the other way around. It’s not perfect (an ideal situation in terms of budget and/or writing would’ve had both), but it does show a willingness to listen and actually respond to criticism, which I appreciate.

        So in the end, the kids are awakened from their puppet states, not by a conscious Odalia who isn’t transformed and stumbles across the light glyph, but because like Camila, Amity is able to muster enough emotional will over her love of Luz to barely nudge her finger... just enough to tap the light glyph and activate it, freeing herself! The kids go out of their way to free Camila for help, and we get to reap the rewards of Camila’s development in how she copes with her daughter’s death, when fear for Luz was what incited the series and led to a less-than-ideal handling of the situation.

         Camila gets to guide the kids with glyphs like her daughter does, showing an engagement with the isles after being apprehensive in the previous episode; And a connection to Luz, who has the Titan’s magic and is powering these spells… Camila is unwittingly calling upon her daughter for help and Luz is answering! And when it’s done, Camila gets to stand by the kids and not at a distance, because they love and accept her for having always been a good mother to them.

[xxlemon-chanxx]

How's Philip/Belos with cock? Can he give good head? Can he give a good handy? Can he ride it like a cowboy? And most importantly, does he spit or swallow?

⚠️NSFW HEADCANONS UNDER THE CUT!!⚠️

Philip:

Beardo Philip I headcanon as being bisexual or even pan, but having to sadly repress his “urges” from a young age because of the society he was raised into. So, if he meets a person he loves who has male anatomy like he does—prepare for a whole lot of unpredictable behavior as Philip’s moods constantly swing between “warm and overall sweet and attentive.” to “abusive prick who constantly shoves his partner away physically and emotionally because he's so debilitatingly terrified of the fiery inferno.”

That being said, needless to say, the freakier Philip gets in the sheets, the more brutal the mental lashing that follows will be.

He's surprisingly good at giving. The scratchiness of his beard makes it borderline painful whenever he goes down on you, but it always stays juuuust shy of actually causing pain, so it's just another strong sensation on top of the pleasure he's already giving you.

If his hair is down, you can see the greasy, unkempt strands sticking to his forehead as he focuses on what's in his mouth. His head bobs ever so slightly and his brows knit in concentration. There's a trail of frothy drool dribbling down his beard that you swear is getting bigger every time he comes up for air. He holds your thighs apart, shooting you warning glances if you even dare think about trying to squeeze him with your legs. He refuses to swallow. He has to be in a very submissive headspace to let you cum inside of him, and he's only ever that desperate to please in a handful of scenarios, and your cock in his mouth is not one of them. He won't even let you cum in his mouth. You might claim it unfair, considering how much he likes to face-fuck you with so much vigor it's like he's trying to breed your throat, but he simply jerks you off to completion and has you spill where it either lands on the floor, or he aims your cock back towards you so it hits you on the stomach/chest.

If he starts off with giving you a handy, then most likely it's when you two are huddled in your bedrolls side-by-side, with hushed whispers being spoken between you two, so close that you're practically recycling each other’s breaths. Philip’s hand wanders to your waistband, his fingers, so cold you wonder how the hell he can write so much without proper circulation, hesitantly slide under the band of your trousers to gently cup the bulge between your legs, his thumb lightly pressing into it. The starkness of his chilled hands against your notably warmer flesh makes your appendage perk up faster. He groans and presses his face into your neck. His free hand reaches and grips your wrists, trying to ensure that you don't touch him until he's done exploring. He’ll whisper words to you that are so quiet you don't understand them, or maybe the feeling of his calloused, cold hands against your sensitive bits is so pleasurable that it renders you incapable of understanding basic English, who knows?

Belos

He’ll suck you off in the same manner as everything else he does: he savors you. Holds you in his mouth just to feel the weight of you on his tongue. He enjoys the taste of you on his tongue. After you release, he’ll even take the time to wipe the corners of his mouth and lick whatever he collects off his fingers. Then, he’ll unhurriedly climb on top of you and slowly begin lowering himself…

This old man is the best at riding you until you see stars. Hands placed on your chest, hips rolling against yours, and that devilish twinkle in his eye that he gets whenever he knows he's in control. He’ll encourage you to put your hands on his hips. He thinks it's cute that you believe that you have any say in how fast he rocks against you. He enjoys the sensuality of the gentle rolling of his hips, barely even enough to make him groan. Who needs roughness? Rough sex is for a man much younger than he is now. Let this old man love you the way he wants to.

[mdhwrites]

Did Luz ever believed that she could save Belos?

I think the bigger question is whether or not Luz ever CONSIDERED that she could save Belos.

Remember, in the first episode, she shoves a pack of fireworks directly into a dude's mouth. She sicks the cubes against the crunch publisher and then just leaves. She lets Willow do whatever she wants to the monster hunters. She straight up leaves Tibbles to be eaten by his miniature pets now that they're full size. Etc. etc. Luz is not exactly someone who seems to even question what she should do to an enemy, let alone their humanity versus her own.

This isn't even a complaint about her but just kind of a fact. I don't mind that she doesn't care about her villains. It admittedly places her mindset more on the axis of the Isles which actually isn't great for her ever disagreeing with them. It's why stuff like her clearing out Eda's cheat box honestly feels weird because her morality in general is pretty close to gray but she is clearly framed as morally better than the majority of the Isles, especially early on. It's just... Not really true by her actions. Remember, by episode three she's already sneaking out for her own self glory and on mass lying to get into the school she wants and only one of those required any pushing from others to do.

It also makes the jabs at SU kind of weird because like... The show never cared about its villains before now. The fact that they're not dead is mostly because Luz just leaves them to other people or can't kill them. She's just not that sort of protagonist. I mean, she fucking branded Belos back in King's Tide as a way to make sure everyone with a brand didn't die... Which you know, kind of means HE'S going to die. She literally uses his life as a trump card to get him to do as she wants. It's part of why people laud that moment as Luz being clever because even if the way she does it is bullshit, the idea is sound.

The ONLY exceptions to this are Amity and Hunter but... Only kind of. In the episodes where they are true antagonists, she has no way to actually fight back against them, ending up leaving both unscathed as she has to use trickery or just run for it. Then they're not primary antagonists but instead people in tension with Luz which is different. Luz is shown their humanity and suddenly gives them a chance. Why is a good question and uh... The fact that of her villains, these are the only two conventionally attractive, white people who she might want to date is NOT GREAT. To put it mildly. Especially when in their third proper episode together, Luz is stating that she'll befriend Amity explicitly as part of fulfilling narrative tropes. And if you want to say Kikimora disproves this: She doesn't. Luz explicitly helps Kikimora to prove a selfish point. If she wasn't freaking out about her own family, she'd have likely left Kiki to rot. It's not like she exactly ever tries again with the little demon after all.

No, for the VAST majority of villains, you fuck with Luz, Luz will fuck your shit up. It's honestly weird that it takes Luz so long during Winging it Like Witches to decide to go the violent route on Boscha, which I just assume is so she doesn't end up back in detention or expelled. Or because she thinks Boscha can and will kick her ass if she tries something like that on her own. But yeah, Luz isn't some sort of cinnamon roll. In fact, I think a lot of people's interpretations of Luz are much more based on what her archtype appears to be than what her actual character is (myself included while I was writing fanfic for the show). She's introduced as the quirky, nice girl in the first episode and she's not SUPER far away from it, that is the closest to an archtype she has besides just kind of morally questionable teenager, if she has really any archtype or structural base to her character. You know, besides audience surrogate and thus kind of bland and non-committal in order to serve that.

She has a couple interests but 99% of the time can keep them reigned in. Sure she knows what fanfic is but that just means she spends literally anytime online/with fandom. Her energy is cute but very erratic for it showing up... At all. Her kindness is extremely limited and she honestly just isn't that quirky. She has one series she supposedly obsesses about but quotes at most half a dozen times in the show which makes it more a character quirk than a defining characteristic.

It's kind of part of why Luz doesn't grow because the series seems to spend a LOT of time trying to figure out what Luz is. Is she a morally questionable teenager? Is she an excitable goof? Is she the moral center or the one having to learn morals? And yes, a character can absolutely serve several roles and be flexible. I think she actually does that well in the first half of the series where she shifts a bit for the sake of other characters' stories, which is one option for your main character. You know, before her narrative role changes and they get a VERY firm idea of who she is siiiiiiiigh but it's still weird with how they did it.

It makes so much of what we're told and what people latch onto end up feeling contradictory. As an example: Her being bullied. We only get maybe three moments in the entire series that even hint at her having any sort of bad experience with other people, let alone kids her own age. It informs nothing about how she behaves or her character. She could have just been a normal kid most people left alone and nothing would change. So this element, that so many agree universally on, is just... Almost purely fanon and the moments it comes up in canon are really awkward and just don't make much sense with literally EVERYTHING ELSE she does.

It makes her getting a shapeshifter as her palisman ironically make a lot of sense. Her character has always just been what's convenient for the writers and what others project on her. A lot of her canon character just isn't used a lot. Instead, people opt for what the fandom says about her.

And that version might have considered saving Belos. Might have thought taking a life actually mattered. But canon Luz is just worried about becoming the bad guy. That this is the start of her villain arc, not that she is finally having to murder someone. Just that her justifications might make people say she's like the villain in her story.

Because canon Luz never considered if Belos should live. Not from the second it inconvenienced her back in Hollow Mind. Earlier with what he did to Eda if you want to be REALLY generous, even though she never acts on what Belos did to Eda. She only becomes a revolutionary once she can't have magic cloak because of it.

Almost like Luz isn't the morally good person that the show told us she was. She's just a selfish teenager which can be a lot of fun, so long as you own up to that being your character. Shame TOH never did.

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As a note: This blog is actually a LARGE part of why I stopped really being able to write Luz. I literally had a moment writing this one off where I went "Luz wouldn't do this. This is too nice and understanding." It was ROUGH. And what sucks is that with the morality around her, at least when characters are still interesting, her being a nice, caring person is the best dynamic for her. It just... Isn't actually her dynamic and that's rough.

Also that story is from a year and a half ago. Just... Man I wish my brain would unhook from this show already. *sigh*

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

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And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[fandom-discussions-with-avery]

One of TOH's big problems is that the characters are very clearly divided into black and white, which just leads to other problems.

In season 1, they tried to make characters more complicated. There were also characters like Willow and Gus, but the rest still had more elaborated and realistic characters. Amity wasn't a thoroughly bad person, she had some positive moments, but she bullied Willow. Twins were shitty siblings with violent jokes, but they were still not antagonists, they could apologize to Amity and even tried to help her, not forgetting to play a joke with her. Eda was a good person from the very beginning, but at the same time she was a fraud and a shitty teacher. Lilith was a villain with a more or less human motivation. Camila loved Luz and wanted the best for her, even in ways that were unpleasant for her. Yes, even for the first time Hunter, even though he was an antagonist, was also not a black and white villain who is evil because he is evil.

And then everything sank into oblivion. The actions of twins haven't been mentioned, now they never prank anyone and behave like caring, stupid siblings, especially Emira. Camila says that she was wrong about everything, Luz was just expressing herself when she brought dangerous snakes and fireworks to school, and Camila is actually a nerd like her daughter (although I'm sure now she will indulge Luz in any of her whims, otherwise Luz will run away again). Lilith is now a cool insecure nerdy aunt. Amity and Hunter... Enough has already been said about them. Eda doesn't mention crimes anymore, she's just a caring mom in love with her ex. And the fucking Alador lost all his sins and it turns out he was just standing on the sidelines while his wife abused the children and himself, yes, truly believable.

And in the meantime, the antagonists who didn't have time to be redeemed, even those who had the motivation, became evil for evil's sake. The whole past of Belos? Oh, guys, I'm sorry, he's just born evil, the local god himself told us. Can Odalia really love children and wish them the best? No, she hates them, she needs money, money, money, she's stupid and supports genocide for money, yeah! Kikimora has family problems (like Lilith)? Fuck it, she's just dumb and mean. Only Boscha partially avoided this, but it's true that what was done to her was also badly prescribed (they scored on her for a season, then abruptly pulled out when no one needed her anymore). At least they didn't make her Miss Cherry Ice Cream Sweet Girlfriend for Willow, and thanks for that.

I hate that the characters who initially didn’t let me quit the show on the second episode turned into a pathetic semblance of themselves. My God, if I turn on the channel for kids now, the characters from these cartoons will have more character than Amity and Hunter in season 3. TOH wants to seem like an adult cartoon raising adult problems, but his characters are on the level of first Disney movies about princesses. Here you have evil villains who deserve only death and good characterless cardboards, you should feel sorry for them. In 2021-2023, it's completely irrelevant.

[noperopesaredope]

I am a hardcore Collector apologist, and I will stand by them forever. I do believe that they aren’t truly malicious, they just don’t realize that what they’re doing is wrong. 

But I also kinda like it when fanfics portray them as both blissfully naive and straight up sadistic at the same time. It’s honestly one of the things that draws me to his character. Sure, I adore it when the Collector is just an easily manipulated little kid, but I also like seeing portrayals of them in which they describe how he will violently maim someone. I actually like seeing both portrayals at the exact same time.

One of the things that I like about the Collector is what I call “Terrifying Innocence.” The Collector is definitely a naive little kid and mentally quite innocent and impressionable, but here’s the thing about little kids: they can be really fucked up. Even the sweetest and most kindhearted children can be scary af.

Cognitive empathy is mostly a learned trait rather than an inherent one. Children do not come out of the womb with the knowledge that other beings have feelings and that their actions affect others, and this is clearly the case with the Collector. So they can commit different types of violence with no reaction, as they might not be aware that it is wrong. 

It’s like children who torture ants during recess. They are more fascinated by it than anything, and they don’t fully process how cruel they are actually being. When you don’t understand that other people experience pain, can’t properly empathize with it, or generally feel extremely removed from it, you become fascinated by it. It’s the same reason people like true crime or even slasher horror.

Honestly, as I said, I kinda like it when the Collector is shown to be weirdly playful upon seeing horrific things. It’s because he feels less like a sadistic ass like Belos, and more like someone who is really into slasher movies. Little kids are into violence a surprising amount. 

I have been told that I’m a very compassionate person (I don’t completely believe that I am, but a bizarre amount of people have told me this, so I guess it’s true), but as a kid, around the Collector’s age, I had multiple “disaster” phases

I had an obsession with the Titanic for a while, particularly the part where hundreds of people died. I had an even bigger obsession with Pompeii, and upon seeing a museum exhibit with some of the preserved bodies, I actually took a good few minutes imagining how each individual person died and what their last moments were like. Fucked up, I know, but it happened.

Children don’t typically go out of their way to hurt others once they realize that their actions can hurt others, but they will occasionally watch (from a distance). I imagine that the Collector is like this as well. Maybe they did watch Belos hurt the Grimwalkers and were still playful about it. 

I even brought up a small potential headcanon that they (slightly unintentionally) gave Belos ideas. Kinda like “what if you EXPLODED one of them? Ooh- ooh- or...you could THROW THEM IN LAVA!” Not an evil whisper-in-your-ear kinda way, more like asking a preschooler to describe what they think demons would do to people in hell or something. Kids get creative with it.

It wouldn’t be that he truly meant harm the way Belos did, they would do it because they found it interesting. They don’t understand other people’s pain, and therefore just experiment without realizing how bad their actions are. It’s interesting to me to read portrayals of the Collector where they are still show in a sympathetic light and he’s clearly just a little kid, but he also doesn’t really seem to care about others that much.

It’s realistic in a way that I like and captures the spirit of the messiness that is a child’s morality. They aren’t evil or completely sadistic, they just don’t see the severity of their actions and are mostly self-centered in terms of worldview.

So, in conclusion, we need more fics where the Collector is a blissfully innocent kid with a love for slasher films.