#op is a zionist. like I'm actually a real Zionist

[orphee-aux-enfers]

If I learned anything in my master's degree, it was actually about differentiating mis and disinfo, because misinformation and disinformation are not synonyms.

Misinformation:

Incorrect or misleading information. Basically, being wrong or repeating something factually incorrect.

Disinformation:

Incorrect, misleading information designed to be deceptive and propagate wrong information to obfuscate the truth. Becomes misinformation when it's been shared and repeated repeatedly, but not when someone posts the initial incorrect, misleading information.

If you see someone posting disinformation, call it what it is. When I was studying propaganda and disinformation, we had to take breaks every fifteen minutes and check in with someone not immersed in it because even with training you are not immune to propaganda.

Calling a spade a spade is a very important skill.

[witchywitchy]

"OP you can criticize Israel without being antisemitic 😠"

And is the "antisemitism" with us in the room?

The "antisemitism" being = criticizing a brutal occupation that's ethnically cleansing Palestinians and dehumanizing them in every way possible.

The "antisemitism" being = criticizing settler violence which has been exposed by BOTH Palestinians and former Zionists who lived in Israel and saw how settlers attack Palestinians, including children.

The "antisemitism" being = criticizing and condemning the continuation of an apartheid regime that subjects Palestinians including CHILDREN to being kidnapped in the middle of night, getting tortured and subjected to r*pe threats and actual sexual violence in Israeli prisons, no legal representation, military courts, signing papers in Hebrew -a language they do not speak-, and their families sometimes cannot visit at all. Oh and all of this? Without an actual charge! They just kidnap Palestinians and label them as prisoners. "The only democracy in the Middle East" my ass.

The "antisemitism" being = wanting an end to a brutal occupation that doesn't give Palestinians the right to having the name of their country back on the map nor the right to self-determination to begin with. A brutal occupation that KICKS Palestinians out of their homes* just for Israeli settlers to take over them.

*There are videos from 2021 if you look it up and see what happened in Sheikh Jarrah, and even before that, there are documentations of Palestinians getting displaced.

The "antisemitism" being = saying that there are Jews who have been advocating for a free Palestine and saying "not in our name". It is apparently saying how holocaust survivors and their descendants have opposed the stealing of Palestinian land and the colonization of Palestine as a whole. Apparently I'm being "antisemitic" if I amplify these voices that oppose the occupation.

The "antisemitism" being = asking not to equate Zionism with Judaism because that's real antisemitism. And this has been stated MULTIPLE times by both Jewish people and Holocaust survivors, but apparently Zionists don't like listening to that.

The "antisemitism" being = posting a map of Palestinian cities' names which have been replaced by an illegitimate state SIMPLY to erase Palestinian history while ethnically cleansing them and making them leave their original cities, which got colonized and became occupied by settlers. Just because the current names are in Hebrew or/and have a history, it doesn't mean that Israel is any less colonial and imperial. Israel already exploited an entire religion, y'all think they won't go beyond? The way the map post went over y'all's heads was embarrassing to see fr, and it still is.

Please go educate yourself on antisemitism before you accuse me and any Palestinian/pro-Palestinian of antisemitism. Y'all look stupid af.

[jyndor]

I'm sick with covid but I'm sicker reading people saying zionism should be an "intracommunity" conversation

fyi i cropped out the response bc i didnt feel like doing the "work" to hide the username of the op who basically said they completely agree and have nothing new to add.

no actually palestinians should be leading the conversation on that, in the same way that indigenous people everywhere should be leading the conversations on settler colonialism everywhere. lol can you imagine if only white settlers could speak on rhodesia? on apartheid south africa? listen I know some white south africans and... I mean its a mixed bag 😂

like also not for nothing theodore herzl thought it was cool to reach out to cecil rhodes re: zionism so since the beginning jewish zionists have invited non-jewish people into the discourse (literally the reason for the state of israel's existence) but now that palestinians are finally being listened to that's it

and about the kinds of zionism and how wrong it is for people to just use zionism the way people do (meaning to describe the support for the settler colonial state of israel, which isn't entirely correct in theory but is also not wrong in PRACTICE) like... what planet are we on? can we be fucking real for a minute? if your first thought when you hear palestinians and people who are pro-palestine talk about zionism is "well that's not fair to the pre-state zionists like the cultural zionists" like bro where are the cultural zionists in today's discourse?

zionism in all of its forms was born in europe during a time of increasing nationalism in europe, and jewish communities do have conversations about that! awesome. but no actually this cannot be an intracommunity conversation because the impact is not only within community. I guess zionists back in the 1800s should have thought about the impact their settler colonialism would have on liberal zionists in 2023. you know because back then it WAS mostly an intracommunity conversation, and then leaders like herzl brought white non-Jewish Brits into the conversation to get support for the actual implementation of what had been only theory and not even well-agreed upon theory into practice.

if zionism had been intended to be an intracommunity conversation, the state of israel would not exist.

there's a lot of people who are gonna be really ashamed of themselves in thirty years.

now fuck it I gotta go cough up a lung

[papirouge]

Ah yes, because we all know that Russia bombed the equivalent of 2 H bomb onto Ukraine in the span of a few weeks, precisely like Israel did. No mention of the (illegal) use of white phosphorus, which is known to have terrible effect on the environment. That's totally a normal "war" stuff that happened before and that we should just gloss over like we did before :) .....NOT.

The "exceptional" treatment for Israel is simply on par with the exceptionalism of this war. Pulling out a whataboutism about other countries, or the Russia-Ukraine war is stupid considering that either Ukraine or Russia has yet to showcase the same casualties as Palestine does.

"how many country has YOUR country set off" that precisely because people acknowledge that their country has a hand in this conflict (sugaring Israel with their taxpayer money and weapons) that they're doing the most against it, genius🙄 And you know what happened when Westerners said that this conflict is actually also our business because that's our money that goes wasted onto it? we've been told that we're just clueless goyim and that we are forbidden to have an opinion on it lmao Because Israel spilling goyim blood to have their fanatic millennialist Gret Israel way is totally not goyim business...ofc So what's the truth? should we stay in our lane or not? how? we've been boycotting but even that has been a problem for Zionists too somehow (we'll get back to it later on this post). At this point whatever we do or say will never please you because you're just mad we stopped drinking the Kool-Aid.

btw, it's funny to see yall suddenly whine about the delusional left saying that the hostages are "crisis actor" when the ones who've been consistently saying that the victims in Gaza weren't real and made up an entire HASHTAG #paliwood to mock them(!!) were Zionists.... interestingly no Zionist complained about people making a "trend" off tragedies, like they do against pro Palestinians...what a load of hypocrites lel Actually Zionists were the one insinuating that the hostages were actors for displaying signs of sympathy for their captor and not being enough mad at them lmao ....Something-something...every accusation is a confession LOL I'm not saying that there's no delusional conspirators in the left/anti Zionist side though, only that acting like the left had some sort of monopoly in denying basic reality to fit their narrative is straight up dishonest. Never forget that the ones who came up with the "crisis factor" talking point were CONSERVATIVES, to act like mass shooting were psy-op and that no kid died in Sandy Hook to remove from their side any responsibility regarding their loose gun control policies. The same right whose antisemites constantly fly under your radar, and that you lazily label as "leftist" just because they're against Israel....

Behold, LEFTIST anti Zionist MEME 🤡

Interesting how I never see you guys seethe about the actual antisemitism of this flock of guys🧐 it's like, the left had to bear the whole responsibility of the rise of antisemitism on its shoulders.....why?

"focus on their own shit" You mean, those civilians precisely did by doing what they could do at their own level such as boycotting, something that Zionist lobby also tried to make it illegal(??). Zionists made fun of protesters protesting IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY against their own government, saying how useless they are and hop they're more of an inconvenience than a "real" protest. Like sis, if you want people to "focus on their own shit", keep that same energy for Israel and tell them to stop trying to interfere onto foreign country politics (trying to make the ban of Israeli products illegal) & assaulting them! So yeah, don't be surprised that people start to get scared of Zionism. Which btw already did a handful of victims already...even in the West :

"Zionism will kill us all". If you can use Islamism like a boogeyman to say it will "kill us all" (in the West), don't be surprised we pull out the same energy for Zionism who also kills ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"harass and threaten people in other countries" lmao you mean like those two Israel agent did by assaulting US citizens on their own soil? 🤡

the same US citizens who hound their own officials to stop funding this war, and you know who's still making fun of them?? ....Zionists (look at the comments)

but yeaaaaah anti Zionists are totally not doing shit and are just lazily harassing people online. Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about.

TL;DR : you guys never beat the every accusation is a confession allegations

[theros]

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[papirouge]

I have extended family like aunts and uncles and cousins who fully support israel and believe Palestinians are terrorists trying to violently take over the world. It’s driving me crazy because I have 0% chance of trying to talk to them about the real issues in Gaza and the IDF. They also claim to be christians and very spiritually connected. They also strongly support Ukraine and condemn Russia for being terrorists yet what’s happened in Gaza against Palestinians is also treated differently. It’s like people just haven’t read or seen what exactly zionist israel wants

Oooh but didn't you know? Pro Israel are now gaslighting us that Zionism isn't really a thing👀 There's actually a post with that awful take floating around Tumblr lol

That post was pretty much saying "Israel isn't the only country blocking gaza!!" and "there are many ethnicities in Israel!!" and I couldn't help but cringe at how bad OP was missing the point

Like, yeah Israel and Egypt are reinforcing the blocus, but the blocus and the alleged racial diversity of Israel isn't mutually exclusive to the actual political and religious project that is Zionism. Egypt didn't wake up one day and decided to block population of Gaza - it was substantial to the existence of Israel (because of...ugh Zionism) and their alliance with them.

Meanwhile the humanitarian aid is passing through Egypt and that's not Egypt that's throwing bombs on hospital and churches so don't be shook to see people get mad at the actual country responsible of this mess ��⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ like it's lowkey insane how pro Israel are unable to take accountability and will always play victim/shift the blame....

There are also well documented occurrences of racial discrimination in Israel so elevating the diversity of Israel without being transparent about its inherent racial prejudice (because of... Zionism) is lunacy.

It's like bragging about Jim Crow era America being dIvErSe. Like, yeah, Black Americans were there.....but under what conditions?

If pro Israel want to understand the grievance people have against Zionism they should take a look inward and search what their founding fathers said about it. And not make idiotic posts missing the actual point.

I'm verh curious as of what differencr they mafe between Ukrainian resistance and Palestianian 👀 they're really fooling themselves if they think Ukrainians aren't killing civilians lmao it's just that the western media don't report it like they don't report the Palestinian casualties 🤡

"claim to be Christians and be spiritually connected" LMAO so does every pro Israel Christian. They are the most delusional spiritually bewildered people EVER. Imagine supporting the same cult who was unable to acknowledge Jesus as the son of God and crucified him on a cross.... 🤦🏾‍♀️Jews were unable to recognize God when it came on the flesh among them and rejected and killed him, but you, who's supposed to know God, support them and their religious rebellion against God and warmongering lunacy of a earthly Zion state.... The math ain't mathing 💀