#orc lady... with big tiddies...

[thestalkerbunny]

The female orc design in Dungeon Meshi is so good-like they look like actual WOMEN. They're not just super skinny big tiddied ladies. They look like hardworking ladies and moms. They're thick with muscle and fat and have a touch of abs but their faces are still soft and warm like I would not be afraid of these women, these women would keep me safe-I can only best describe it as 'The physical embodiment of mashed potatoes.'

[simonjadis]

A friend talked about a lot of geeks bemoaning how female characters aren't "allowed" to be girly anymore. I agreed with him on how they're not disallowed from being girly so much as allowed to be human.

This is SUCH a complicated topic because there ARE ways in which women are penalized, in real life and in fiction, for perceived femininity . . . but that is essentially never what these hellclowns are talking about

I’m not going to try to define femininity. It’s not exactly a cultural constant or some sort of universal truth. Even if it were, I would not really be the best authority on the subject. Or on masculinity, for that matter.

But the people saying this could mean multiple things

ONE

The first and most obvious is that they want a return to storytelling and characterization norms that our society is trying to move past. Whether it’s a soft, slightly ditzy girl with bunny ears, a feisty barmaid who wields a cast iron skillet like a cudgel, or deeply intelligent princess who is nonetheless in need of rescue (and perhaps “needs” to learn about the real world through a male protagonist’s eyes), storytelling has been filled with women for many years and they can genuinely take many roles while being “girly.” But these women, in most “traditional” media, are contrasted with Mother Figures, with Bad Women Who Are Too Darn Sexy, and with Bad Women Who Are Too Masculine. The hero might be tempted by the Too Darn Sexy, might fight and respect the Too Darn Masculine women, etc . . . but at the end, his love interest will meet an easily accessible definition of femininity (such as those I listed above) and also need his help. I should note that this can also be true of extremely good storytelling, and that a woman being feminine OR needing help during her story are not dealbreakers or even necessarily storytelling mistakes. It is that their roles and how they are morally framed within the story are so limited by their gender performance that is the problem. (Just think of how many action movies have the male protagonist have a fistfight with an enemy -- she is always going to be “too big/strong/masculine” so audiences are not supposed to care). Anyway, so people with this gripe want to see women back in these tropes, and if they see a woman with great arms being the hero, they get culture shock.

TWO

Not every character exists to be thirsted after, but for SO long, any woman who wasn’t at least twice the (white, straight, male) protagonist’s age existed, if not necessarily to be his lover, to be a potential object of temptation for the hero or thirst for the person consuming the story. Increasingly, female characters without any of the usual femininely attractive traits are appearing in media -- buff orc women, women wearing realistic armor, etc. Now, basically all of these women are going to be objects of thirst anyway, but for people seeing them as not feminine/hot enough, this feels like a waste to have that character there. Well, folks, welcome to the club. I’ve been feeling that way about so many men in stories for all of my life. However, being an adult tells me that not every character exists to be thirsted after, and that even though I do not personally thirst after a guy does not mean that no one is. Just as a gorgeous buff orc woman might be wasted on your average straight dude but adored by others, a character I wouldn’t even glance twice at as a prospective thirst object will have other people falling head over heels, no matter how much I cannot personally relate.

THREE

Sometimes, it’s just about things like hairstyle and outfit. There are very feminine women with short hair or who don’t dress in an overly provocative or “soft” manner. Not every fictional character is going to dress like Princess Jasmine, or have her tiddies out, or have long hair. They can still be hot. There are lots of ways for someone to be hot. I saw someone whine about “a bald lesbian” upon seeing a short-haired, attractive-faced woman in a trailer for Outriders (SO hyped for that game) and I was just like . . . she’s a beautiful woman on a nightmare monster planet, I’m sorry that she’s not wearing pasties, panties, and pleasers with 3-foot hair and body glitter. It’s 100% okay to have women who dress like that in the right context (fitting the story and setting, also ideally coupled with men who are dressed more or less the same -- no Conan-style false equivalences with male power fantasies either). Anyway, actual human women in real life can be hot but maybe that’s not apparent when they’re wearing their welding outfits or whatever, but I think that many brave and wise lesbians would agree with me. Also, here is the lady from Outriders who was dismissed as a “bald lesbian” when she’s likely just a player character

FOUR

Okay, here is where I might sound a little sympathetic to these dudes -- when it comes to video games, the way that graphics keep improving means that people are looking more realistic. In many ways, that is great! But it also creates a wealth of potential for characters to look, well, worse, because of details that did not exist in earlier models. For example? I watched YouTube playthroughs of the first three Uncharted games. I enjoyed them. I also spent the whole time thirsting after Nathan Drake. Well, then Uncharted 4 comes around, and suddenly he doesn’t look like Alistair Theirin’s cousin, he looks like . . . Liam Neeson? I have to be honest . . . I straight up just quit watching Uncharted 4 because looking at Nathan was no longer fun. (I’m not saying that I’d say “no” to him, but that doesn’t mean anything when you have standards like mine) So if some straight guys are feeling that women in video games are getting “uglier” because they’re getting more realistic, I’m not going to say that I sympathize exactly, but I do “get it.” I’m splitting hairs there, but whatever.

[I was going to paste a photo of Drake before and after here, but looking at them side-by-side I worry that people will roast me for being deeply shallow about video game man. they’re right]

ANYWAY

There are a ton of real women who have to dial back their femininity in real life in order to be treated with respect. Women who have to go twice as hard as they, say, cheer for sportsball in order to be viewed as a friend and fellow fan rather than as “one of the guys.” A lot of things are not designed with long nails in mind, or long hair in mind, though of course neither of those are intrinsic aspects of femininity.

There are also a lot of ways in which femininity is demanded. This performance can be required to be viewed as attractive or as “not political,” etc.

The fact that some ladies have big strong arms or wear armor in stories doesn’t mean that women aren’t allowed to be feminine. That’s a complicated subject, but this isn’t the touchstone for it. The men saying this either lack understanding . . . or are cowards.

[gghero]

Controversial opinion: sometimes.... Its okay to design characters a little horny.

Go put big tiddies on your hot piece of pirate ass. Give your orc lady the killer thighs she deserves. Its okay i promise