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[outsidetheknow]

Type “men can” and “women can” into the Google search bar and check the auto suggestions via /r/technology Type "men can" and "women can" into the Google search bar and check the auto suggestions…

[joannalannister]

hi! i know u dont like the tyrion targaryen theory (understandably so), but how do you feel about tyrion having chimerism? (if u dont know what that is, it's when a person biologically has 2 fathers bc a woman had intercourse with 2 men within a short period of time, so the kid would have one mother and two fathers)

Hi! Thanks for asking me! This is a great question, and there are several things to unpack here:

the definition of chimerism and what you’re describing

the claim that Tyrion is a chimera

how this all relates to the Tyrion Targaryen theory

what this all means for Tyrion’s story as a whole

First, let’s define some terms, because what you have described is not my understanding of chimerism. I don’t claim to have extensive knowledge of biology – I’m basing my understanding on things I read in Scientific American, Time magazine, Wikipedia, etc – so if someone more knowledgable wants to correct me where I err or link me to some published scientific articles to help me learn more, it would be most appreciated. 

You seem to be describing superfecundation, not chimerism. Superfecundation results in two (or more) babies, not one. 

Superfecundation is the fertilization of two or more ova from the same cycle by sperm from separate acts of sexual intercourse, which can lead to two babies born at the same time from two separate biological fathers. While possible in humans, it is extremely rare, and most instances in humans occur from artificial insemination. (A technology which Westeros obviously does not have.) Superfecundation results in two babies born together who are half-siblings, meaning the two children have the same mother but two different fathers. I would like to stress that, while technically possible, superfecundity is rare in human reproduction outside of a laboratory. 

Superfecundation is more common in mammals with an estrus cycle (which humans do not experience). Superfecundity is often found in cats. “Superfecundation occurs when a female mates with two or more males. One litter can potentially have multiple fathers as long as they all mate with the female in the optimum time of conception. A single kitten cannot have multiple fathers; each individual kitten in a litter has only one father.” 

In cases of superfecundation, each individual has only one set of DNA. 

A chimera is a person who has more than one set of DNA. The term comes from the mythical Chimera, a mythological creature that is part lioness, part goat, and part snake. Chimerism occurs in humans when:

a twin dies in utero and the surviving twin “eats” / absorbs the other’s DNA. “Most human chimeras were, at one time, twins. Current theories posit that genetic chimeras develop spontaneously when fraternal twin embryos fuse or when one twin absorbs the other. The absorption process is called Vanishing Twin Syndrome, a haunting phrase to describe the ingestion process.“ [x] In natural pregnancies (achieved without the use of IVF), Vanishing Twin Syndrome is estimated to occur in less than 0.5% of pregnancies; it is rare. 

blood is exchanged by twins in utero

a person undergoes an organ transplant, such as a bone marrow transplant [x]

a woman becomes pregnant, and a small number of cells from the fetus migrate into her blood and travel to different organs [x]

the DNA of a child lost in utero is absorbed by the mother, turning her into a chimera “and invisibly altering her body into a kind of living memorial” [x]

From what I understand, you would have to combine superfecundation with Vanishing Twin syndrome to achieve the chimera situation you’re describing. 

Additional articles I found interesting:

“No, women do not absorb and retain DNA from every man they have sex with“

“Here’s why ‘two-dad’ babies aren’t yet a biological reality”

Perhaps I am not looking in the right place, but the only thing I was able to find (outside of reddit) about a woman having multiple partners resulting in a chimeric pregnancy, was a theoretical discussion on a Quora forum, in which it was hypothesized that a superfecund woman had sex with two men in a very short period of time, resulting in two fertilizations (very rare), and during the pregnancy one of the twins was absorbed by the other twin (also very rare), so that the resulting baby was a chimera with two fathers. 

No statistical probabilities were given, but this seems almost statistically impossible to me, even before considering this situation in a world without modern medical technology. 

In Tyrion’s case … If we were to assume both (1) superfecundity and (2) Vanishing Twin Syndrome to create a very, very rare two-father chimera … shouldn’t we see some evidence of Aerys’s DNA, as well as Tywin’s? 

If GRRM wanted us to figure this out, wouldn’t he make it more obvious for us? Aerys had purple eyes, while Tyrion has a black eye and a green eye. Tywin has green eyes. Aerys had silver/silver-gold hair, while Tyrion has white and black hair. Tywin doesn’t have white hair, but Tommen does. Aerys didn’t have dwarfism. Tyrion has dwarfism. Tywin has metaphorical dwarfism. To me, all this simply points to Tyrion having Tywin’s (”real” and literary) DNA. 

(I mean, we’re talking about the author who referenced Olenna’s broken betrothal and “queer” right on the page in ASOS, and we were all trying to figure out for years about Olenna, and it was right there in front of us. GRRM ain’t subtle.) 

So I don’t think that Tyrion is the product of superfecundity and Vanishing Twin Syndrome, both of with would need to occur in order for Tyrion to be a chimera with Aerys as one of his two fathers. Which is very unlikely. 

(More on why Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen and #A plus J does not equal T) 

I am not even 100% certain that Tyrion is a chimera (at least not the medical definition of a chimera). Don’t get me wrong, it’s an interesting theory: Tywin and Joanna conceive a second set of twins (and twins are common among House Lannister!), and one of those twins dies in the womb and Tyrion “eats” it (more cannibalism!) and absorbs his twin’s DNA. It puts an interesting spin on this quote:

Tyrion wondered what it would be like to have a twin, and decided that he would rather not know. Bad enough to face himself in a looking glass every day. Another him was a thought too dreadful to contemplate.

If this Vanishing Twin theory were true, it’s suggestive to me of Cain and Able, a good son and a bad one, and Tyrion has both of them inside him. But as far as ASOIAF theories go, I don’t think this is one that could ever be confirmed, save by word of God, and I’m not sure that GRRM would play into such a strict dichotomy. ASOIAF themes don’t support the idea that evil could be something (or someone) separate from oneself, something Tyrion needed to “absorb”. I think GRRM would be much more likely to say that the potential for evil is inside all of us (without the need of an evil twin) and it’s something we need to fight, constantly. 

So, I mean, it’s interesting to wonder if Tyrion is a chimera! 

But I don’t think he is. 

The only observable characteristic I see that could possibly point to chimerism in Tyrion is his heterochromia (the difference in coloration of the irises, hair, and/or skin). And heterochromia can be caused by many things other than chimerism. 

Heterochromia in infants may be caused by:

Horner’s syndrome

Sturge-Weber syndrome

Waardenburg syndrome

Hirschsprung disease

Bloch-Sulzberger syndrome

von Recklinghausen disease

Bourneville disease

Parry-Romberg syndrome

“Though multiple causes have been posited, the scientific consensus is that a lack of genetic diversity is the primary reason behind heterochromia. This is due to a mutation of the genes that determine melanin distribution at the 8-HTP pathway, which usually only become corrupted due to chromosomal homogeneity.“

Tyrion’s parents were first cousins. I mean, 

Fandom: Incest causes genetic mutations! It’s bad! Won’t someone please think of the children!GRRM: Here is my favorite character, Tyrion, son of Tywin the Incestuous Blood Purity Bigot. I gave Tyrion heterochromia. Fandom: That can’t possibly be due to incest. GRRM: Maybe – just maybe – Tywin’s obsession with blood purity has really fucked his children over in more ways than one. Fandom: …nah. Tyrion is a chimera. GRRM: …is this what you all do in the years between my books? 

When there are both genetic and thematic reasons to explain Tyrion’s heterochromia in the story … well, the idea that Tyrion is a chimera seems a bit overkill. It’s really not necessary to, well, other Tyrion any more than he already is. He doesn’t need all these weird and highly improbable explanations for why he is the way he is.  

(I mean, Euron has heterochromia, and no one is suggesting he is a chimera or a secret targ.) (And I don’t want to know if anyone is; leave me in my ignorance please.) 

In terms of how I feel about Tyrion have differently colored eyes and differently colored hair, I think it is thematic. Like his brother Jaime, caught in an identity crisis halfway down the page of the White Book, halfway between the Lannister shield and the white one … I think Tyrion is caught between the Lannister ideology of dehumanization, greed, lust etc (represented by the green eye, the white blonde hair) and his own humanity (shown to us in those moments when he designs a saddle for Bran, when he speaks up for Sansa, etc, represented by the black eye, the black hair). 

(The interesting thing to me is that unlike most authors, GRRM is using black here to represent heroism and humanity, when that is traditionally represented by the color white. But black is soft, black is enveloping, like a blanket to wrap around you to save you from the icy searing white cold. "By night all banners look black")

The heterochromia is a signpost representing Tyrion’s duality, his potential to go both ways, which I talk about in detail here. 

I hope that helps explain my views, and thank you again for asking!

[asoiafnerd]

The Princes of Dragonstone and their choices.

"Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded..."

This quote has Ser Barristan describing Rhaegar to his sister. But it could easily be describing Stannis. And before you use Stannis' running away to Dragonstone in anger after Ned Stark was appointed Hand to call him not-dutiful, remember when Rhaegar was working against his father? The parallel between the two is that they are dutiful to the Kingdom.

...but born of the same incest. Another monster in the making. Another leech upon the land... (Davos VI, ASoS)

But this is only the start. The parallels between Stannis and Rhaegar run rampant through the story. In fact, I think that the entirety of Stannis' story is supposed to mirror that of Rhaegar's, and that these two stories are going to be used to reinforce each other and explain each other. Because, essentially, both of these arcs run along the same theme: Rulers making hard choices for the good of their kingdom.

Both were the Princes of Dragonstone. Both were politically active and against the establishment. Both dabbled in prophecy and sorcery. Both had most likely had a supernatural mentor; Stannis has Melisandre, and Rhaegar probably was influenced by the Ghost of High Heart, according to a theory by /u/cautuse on reddit. Both were thought to be prophecized figures; Stannis the AA, and Rhaegar the Prince that was Promised. And both are later found out to be wrong. Both cheated on their wives (Assuming Stannis slept with Melisandre). Both hid in a place away from the realm when the realm could have really used them. For both of them, the majority of their life struggle was political, against the backdrop of the supernatural; the Rhaegar-Aerys divide in KL that reminded Pycelle about the days of Viserys I, and Stannis' quest for his throne. And for both of them, this political struggle gets supplanted by the supernatural; for Rhaegar it is getting Lyanna pregnant to extract Jon, and for Stannis, it will be burning Shireen to get... god knows what.

As I said, I believe that the stories of Stannis and Rhaegar are supposed to reinforce the understanding of each other's stories. So if Stannis burns Shireen to get a win over the Others, what does it tell us about what Rhaegar did to Lyanna? Previously, I made a post about the political reasons why the 'love story' scenario is improbable. But that was the political part, and this is the supernatural part: Given the parallels between Stannis and Rhaegar, Rhaegar made a sacrifice mirroring that of Stannis'. As I outlined in the aforementioned post, Lyanna said no to carrying Rhaegar's child, and Rhaegar made the difficult choice for the good of his realm.

This was the case of Stannis' choice reinforcing that of Rhaegar's. The reverse happens when we consider the outcome of these sacrifices. Many in the fandom think that Stannis' sacrifice won't work, and that he will die in the backlash that follows the burning of his daughter (the Northmen and King's Men vs. Queen's men divide?). But what happened when Rhaegar's actions generated a backlash? Despite whether Rhaegar did really rape Lyanna Stark or not, he got accused of it all the same and lost his kingdom, half his family, and his life. (That Stannis gets a backlash for something he did do reinforces the idea that Rhaegar got the backlash for something he did do. Namely, kidnapping and raping Lyanna Stark). And yet, something emerged from this sacrifice: Jon Snow, a direct link to the endgame. And so it will be for Stannis' sacrifice.

"This is Stannis Baratheon. The man will fight to the bitter end and then some." (Jaime IX, ASoS)

Burning Shireen will be the 'bitter end', and the 'then some' will be Stannis riding to his doom in his last fight, whatever that may be, just like Rhaegar rode to his doom after his sacrifice was complete. But just as Rhaegar's sacrificed worked, something will emerge from Stannis' sacrifice. In the end, both the Princes of Dragonstone will have lost everything and died, their houses nearly destroyed (or living through a bastard or two, because Dany probably can't conceive) and both will have made a brutal sacrifice that will affect the endgame, but won't be looked upon by the majority of characters, and indeed, quite possibly, by many in the fandom, in a favorable light. (Only GRRM can effect parallels outside the books. Rhaegar and Stannis each have a fan base that thinks the sun shines out of their every orifice, and a hater base that thinks they are both entitled assholes obsessed with prophecies).