#rtte salt

[saturnniidae]

Is this a safe space to admit I fucking hate Hiccup's rtte model.

I don't like how red kind of takes over his color palette (imo it's better as an accent color for him) and also. He's so fucking ugly??? Not in a 'im whining bc I don't think he's attractive enough' way, in a 'my god why tf is he so pasty and his lips are weirdly pink?? His freckles are gone and he's generally unpleasant to look at' way.

[howtodrawyourdragon]

I'm gonna say it; Hiccup did nothing wrong. We're treating him as the biggest problem of THW when literally his worst crime in is somehow losing his freckles and that's not even something he has control over. Oh and that kind of incredibly stupid plan of literally moving an entire people by going "let's just fly straight until we hit something :) even though I, Hiccup Haddock, somehow don't believe the world is round."

The entire rest of the movie is everyone else around him being horrible and out of character.

Berk is a mess in the beginning of the movie, yes. But it was also just a year ago that his father was horribly murdered in front of him because Draco Bloodyfist-Or-Whatever decided to sent his mind controled best friend after him. Everybody expects Hiccup to be put together and solve all problems immediately and remain a Dragon Rider when he should be buying a therapist a mansion and a yacht with all those billed sessions.

Then there is being told more than once that he's putting Astrid second when he literally isn't. And told he should meet her standard.s

There is all that stuff about how he's been a horrible pet owner to Toothless when he had legitimate and real fears about Toothless not making it out in wild and about the Light Fury turning on him and about him not coming back. (Like... he's a disabled dragon, for Gods' sake??? Toothless will literally NOT make it without human intervention)

He's called out for not embracing change when his name was literally synonymous with change before THW and every bit of change he proposes in the movie is met with backlash unless Astrid, their not-chief, says it's okay.

His mother, who abandoned him for 20 and came home with him after the traumatic loss of his father spends most of the movie not being the mother she promised him to be in the second movie and even advocated for the Riders to be less dependent on dragons when she was with dragons for the entirety of those 20 years.

And then there is all the bullying. Making fun of his voice, telling him- a disabled person- to LOSE THE LIMP, telling him he's not worthy of Astrid the warrior goddess (completely forgetting how Hiccup is both parts warrior and diplomat in at least the previous two movies, let alone the movies and the shows) and these three things are all said by Tuffnut! "Forgets he has a sister in THW" Tuffnut!

And let's not forget Snotlout's "who died and made you chief?!" when Snotlout was literally crying at Stoick's funeral. And then proceeds to hit on the dead man's wife and his best friend's mother while also putting said best friend down!

Like... none of the things said to him in the first movie were as bad as some of the things said in THW.

The entire movie is also basically Hiccup being pulled from one direction to the other.

It's "You're a bad chief because you're not changing anything" yet it's also "how dare you make this change!"

It's "you should step up as chief" yet it's also "we will only listen if Astrid says it's good."

It's "you were literally keeping Toothless captive for 6 years :/" yet it's also "Uuuhhh, time to cut the umbilical cord, don't you think? 🙄"

It's "you let Toothless go free, what did you expect?" yet also "uh, you let him go???"

It's "you are literally nothing without Toothless, sorry :/" yet it's also "Toothless only showed you what was already inside."

It's "you should put Astrid first for once" yet it's also "I, Hiccup, will literally listen to every single word you, Astrid, says even if it's hurtful."

It's "I, Astrid, will suggest to you, Hiccup, that we go find Toothless in the hidden world" yet it's also "I, Astrid, will blame you, Hiccup, for deciding to go to the Hidden World, making the Light Fury, who you have no control over, to follow us back home"

It's "hey man, can you help me with this dragon tail? :(" yet it's also "I will literally not listen to you when I'm about to break this branch that I and the dragon tail are on."

I mean, my God! I'd sent the dragons away if I had to listen to that for the past year after I watched my father die a gruesome death.

And that's not even the worst part. The worst part is Toothless abandoning Hiccup for the most shallow reason there is; chasing dragon tail that doesn't even want anything to do with him unless he does something that impresses her when he's the king of the dragons.

So yeah, probably an unpopular opinion, but besides one bad plan, Hiccup did nothing wrong besides listen to what all the people around him were saying, no matter how much they contradict themselves.

Really, what he needs is a hug. A Real one. :(

[000marie198]

Okay so, the prospect of dragons becoming 'softer' and 'less strong' and 'pet-like' due to living with vikings for a few years is so messed up!

This is partially due to how Toothless was characterized in THW. His character in Httyd 1 & 2 + GotNF +RoB/DoB + RTTE + other short movies is leagues different from THW Toothless. And amongst the common reasons theorized for this is dragons having become 'softer spoiled pets' due to 'being away from the wild'. And I hate it!

These dragons, especially the ones who have riders, are canonically stronger, faster, smarter and stealthier than any wild dragons due to all the experience they gained over the years. The dragons of Berk, particularly the gang's dragons, have travelled tremendous distances in single flights, fought battles with armadas and hunters and submarines and entire flocks and practically giants, been to habitats far and wide where wild ones don't dare venture, been through so much, have had near death experiences countless times and came out of those stronger than before. Heck they've even planned and strategized before! They have sharper instincts, faster reflexes, higher endurance and stamina than the wild ones who live in their own habitats. These guys have experienced and survived going through all kinds of habitats. I really doubt that the gang's dragons, the first and last line of defence, the researcher assists, the protectors and best friends of the most competent group on the island would get soft just like that.

AND! And, each of these dragons, Toothless, Meatlug, Hookfang, Stormfly, Barf and Belch, they were becoming smarter and smarter by the day. Toothless in the first movie was intelligent, curious, kind, stealthy, elegant, scary, dangerous, adorable, protective, strong. And he remained as such throughout the series. Why turn him into a... A senseless dog?! Where did his grace, his speed, his stealth and intelligence and protectiveness and loyalty go? That was NOT Toothless. Why was my boy treated like a silly pet and nothing else? Did they just up and forget everything he did throughout the course of the franchise? Toothless whose first thing to do when he got a controllable tailfin was go out to find Hiccup's lost helmet that fell in the ocean and then he broke that tailfin because he valued and treasured this friendship over potentially distancing freedom, Toothless who had defeated and befriended multiple feral dragons without being able to fly, Toothless who ate an eel to keep his best friend safe, Toothless who played possum to fool the outcast guards and escape on his own, Toothless who was willing to drown because he couldn't leave Hiccup alone, Toothless who broke the most Intense mind control hold of the Bewilderbeast because the bond he had with Hiccup was stronger. Are we talking about the same Toothless even?

Gah, I just despise that last movie for so many reasons. I might've given it grace marks if it was just the theme being sad but everything in it was wrong and messed up and illogical.

[rosiethedragongeek]

The fact that RTTE (a spin off of the more popular movies HTTYD and HTTYD 2 that is not necessary to canon) has better characterization of the titular characters in the franchise than HTTYD 3 (the full-length movie finale of the entire franchise with a ridiculously high budget) blows my mind every day

[nartml]

Toothless (and generally most dragons) lost all his personality in thw.

Gone was the loyal, protective, intelligent, curious, silly, expressive, understanding, and sassy/snarky dragon we adored more and more through each new installment in the franchise.

Who is this puppy in thw and what did he do to Toothless?

Look me in the eye and tell me that if anyone, dragon or not, was to pluck Hiccup off his back and send him into the ocean to die, they wouldn't get a minimum of two blasts in the face.

Yes, Toothless is playful and silly and adorable, but only around the people/dragons he trusts, and especially around Hiccup specifically.

Otherwise, his guard is up, he is wary, and he himself has to evaluate whether or not someone is safe to be around.

"Hey, I guess Dean dumbed him down because he wanted to show the effects of domestication—"

Woah there, big words.

Domestication? The definition of domestication is "the process of taming an animal and keeping it as a pet or on a farm".

That is not what's happening on Berk.

Dragons were never pets to humans. (If anything, humans were their pets.)

They stood by the Vikings' sides out of their own volition, and were free to come and go as they pleased.

We see this clearly in GoTNF.

They wouldn't let a human they didn't trust so much as touch them, let alone allow them anywhere near their backs.

They are the ones that choose their riders, or if they even want one, not the other way around.

And they weren't exactly "tamed" either. Or rather, nobody tried to alter their nature and innate instincts.

In RoB, we clearly see that Vikings are the ones who adjust, who adapt accordingly, because dragons are gonna do what dragons do.

And those instincts of theirs were honed. They weren't tamed, they were trained.

The notion that wild dragons are more powerful because they're wild makes no sense to me, because while wild dragons have raw power and raw instinct, trained dragons arguably have more than that.

They learn to work with other dragons, and they're able to pull off some incredible moves, because their bodies are, well, consistently trained.

They go on dangerous missions on the regular, for fuck's sake. During which, they also have to think. The dragons aren't told what to do, nor are they steered by their riders constantly (and when they are, the dragons trust them to do so)

They can take the reins as well (and when they do, the riders trust them to do so), but most of the time, they both move together in sync, understanding what, and how it, needs to be done.

In what world would such a lifestyle weaken them, or threaten to erase their aforementioned instincts?

I don't get Dean's point.

And Hiccup? What's up with the poor decision making?

Because I know damn well Hiccup wouldn't let dragons take over Berk to the point where, within the first ten minutes of the movie , half of it collapses. An event which apparently everyone is used to, because nobody worries about it.

He put an ocean between Garff and a couple of dragons because of how incompatible they were, in terms of needs and way of life.

He relocated dragons constantly, so as not to overcrowd and/or to protect the Edge.

Even when he was, what, 15 in RoB/DoB, he was mindful of the way he handled situations, to ensure Berk and the Vikings wouldn't be overwhelmed with dragons.

He understood that it's impossible for thousands of dragons to cohabitate with humans, and with each other, peacefully and without chaos.

Not to mention, he respected dragon culture and understood that some spaces were not made for the human eye. He made such a big deal about revering Vanaheim, and you expect me to believe he'd be okay with just exposing a place called The Hidden World, a delicate draconic paradise?

And wow, way to go, let's uproot the ENTIRE village, and go searching for this place that we don't even know for sure exists? Yes, very responsible.

And why not just make a life-changing call without consulting anyone, or thinking it through, based on what you alone think is best, while you're at it? Sounds like a great idea.

It's not like in previous installments he always made sure to have a team huddle to discuss (or at least inform the group of) their next move, even in the tightest of spots and with the littlest time; no, of course not.

His leadership abilities, his tactical and strategic thinking, his caution, his conviction and determination? Gone. Erased.

Who is this guy in thw and what did he do to Hiccup?

And as for Toothless and Hiccup's dynamic in this movie, something that Astrid said bugs me to an unfathomable degree.

"You gave him his freedom back, what did you expect?"

Woah there, big talk.

This paints a horribly ugly picture. It makes Toothless seem like he'd been held captive by Hiccup, that if he could've flown on his own, he would never have stuck around this long.

Which, much like the rest of this movie, is a load of horseshit.

Toothless is just as free, if not free-er than, as the rest of the dragons. Because while all dragons love and trust their riders, and vice versa, nobody has a connection quite like Toothless and Hiccup (save for perhaps Valka and Cloudjumper).

Toothless could've been flying on his own for a long, long time now. But he didn't want it. He was vehemently opposed to the idea.

Why? Because to him, flying was no longer worth it if Hiccup wasn't right there with him. Because Hiccup took the loneliness out of flying. Because Toothless wanted nothing more than to be by Hiccup's side. Hiccup was the one that made flying worth it.

A major theme of this movie is learning to fly on your own. Toothless had to learn how to fly without Hiccup, and Hiccup had to learn how to fly without Toothless (I mean, personally I'd rather them remaining inseparable soulmates that are mildly codependent. I recognize it's not necessarily the healthiest dynamic, but fuck if I care)

Toothless did this through meeting his mate, and falling in love (no matter how horribly written and designed she is, and no matter how I personally would've preferred for the Hicctooth bromance to remain undisturbed).

He met a creature that he wanted to follow and be alone with, a creature that made flying alone, with nobody on his back, worth it.

And more importantly, Hiccup had to realize that he's not who he is because he has Toothless, and subsequently the dragons. It's the opposite.

This is growth, and the realization that they don't need each other is important.

But why the fuck does that mean they have to say goodbye?

I don't need most of the people in my life. That doesn't mean I don't want them here.

The point was that Hiccup doesn't need Toothless in order to be someone.

Not that he didn't need Toothless, period.

(Even if the point was simply that he didn't need Toothless, which I could concede to, that again doesn't mean that Toothless had to leave, and take the entire dragon population with him.

To me, that sends a message of "if you don't need them, then they gotta go".

It's not what outgrowing a friendship looks like, despite the fact that many people choose to interpret it as such.

Sure, this movie shows what outgrowing a friendship is; if outgrowing a friendship means making room in your life for other people. If outgrowing a friendship means you found romance. Which is ridiculous.)

___________________

To further clarify:

I am well aware the shows aren't canon.

This, however, doesn't change the fact that all these series tie in with HTTYD 2 really well, and that they make sense.

They expand on the characters and give us a better grasp of the world in httyd. They allow us to understand everything better.

When you only have, at most, 150 minutes to tell a story, every minute of it needs to somehow add to the plot. To further the narrative. There is very little time for fluff.

In a movie, it's practically impossible to properly explore the characters' different dynamics, to give everyone their own arc, to let the audience bask in the slow moments and to let the characters just be.

In a series, however? Well. You've definitely got time.

For someone who only watched the movies, it would be pretty damn difficult to understand the mis-characterization in say, Snotlout, Fishlegs and the twins.

You don't know these characters that well. You don't know the well-established dynamics between the gang in the same way that someone who's watched the series does.

Which is exactly why I think that people who've watched them are the ones that dislike the hidden world the most.

I, too, am usually opposed to using non-canon material to make a point, but RoB, DoB and RTTE are the only spin-off series from a successful movie franchise I can name that make perfect sense. That succeed in accurately portraying the main cast, in realistically expanding on the secondary characters (like Fishlegs, Snotlout, and the twins, who now have the space to become part of the main cast), and in smoothly integrating new characters.

They also manage to beautifully explore this magical universe full of dragons, adventure, and mystery, while firmly establishing the dragons as an important part of ecosystems all around.

Whether it's subconscious or not, they create an unshakable image of how all the characters think, act, and interact. You spend a hell of a lot longer with the characters in a lengthy eight season series than in two movies.

But it's not a bad thing, because this image carved by the series fits in nicely with the image carved in all the canon installments of the franchise.

Well. Except for one, cough cough.

[10blue10]

HTTYD continuity: Are there two Hiccups?

First of all, thank you for all the likes and reblogs on my ‘there are two Hiccups’ post. It’s seriously blowing my mind how popular it is. So, if you read it and thought “what? There are two Hiccups?”

Well, no… but actually yes. I wasn’t being literal (I know, on the reading comprehension website? Shame on me), but the thing is, I’m actually kind of right? Just look at these examples from the wiki:

The entire series is based on the six main Dragon Riders moving away from Berk for over a year. However, in commentary, Dean DeBlois has said that they all lived on Berk between the first two films. The second film’s Art Book elaborates on this saying that they all had responsibilities on Berk which prevented them from leaving.

In other words, as far as Dean is concerned, RTTE never happened.

The series also focuses on the six main Dragon Riders exploring lands outside the Archipelago together, while both Dean and the second film’s Art Book state that only Hiccup and Astrid ventured outside the Archipelago as they were the ones drawing up Hiccup's map. The other four stayed much closer to Berk.

Again, we have a direct contradiction between what Dean claims happened pre-HTTYD2 in his (head)canon, and what we see in RTTE.

Numerous other "dragon riders" are introduced throughout the series, when the second and third films themselves stress how Berk is the only community who rides dragons. Dean elaborated on this during a convention panel explaining that that’s why Eret and Drago were so alarmed when seeing Vikings riding on dragons, and why Eret assumed Valka was one of them.

In an interview with the series creators Art Brown and Douglas Sloan, it was mentioned that the show was originally meant to have 4 seasons, spread out over the span of a year and a half, leading up to the second film. Following the many clues and mentions regarding the passage of time within the story, the last 7 episodes of season 4 were supposed to have happened during the same summer as the film. However, when seasons 5 and 6 were ordered into production, the show writers had to carry on with the timeline they had set up, which inevitably lead to the series continuing into negative time; going past the second film.

In other words, the last two seasons of RTTE aren’t meant to take place before HTTYD2 - they take place after it. If there’s better proof that RTTE is on its own separate timeline, I don’t know what that is.

The majority of film characters are portrayed severely out-of-character in the series compared to the films and film-verse media; most arguably Hiccup and Astrid. Aside from having similar appearance and even voices, their personalities and behaviors in the series portray them as drastically different people than their film counterparts.

I would argue that they are more in character during RTTE, especially Snotlout, the twins and Fishlegs. Isn’t it amazing what being fleshed out characters instead of comic relief can do? But there you have it. RTTE!Hiccup is portrayed as drastically different to his film counterpart. When push comes to shove, there are two Hiccups.

Or, you know, three, if we count the one from the books 😂.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to get back to lamenting the fact we live in the timeline where THW exists and not the timeline where the writers of RTTE were allowed to make a full length conclusion movie.

[frosti-moon]

big fan of giving Heather a hooked nose like Dagur's, making Astrid fat and buff as fuck, and letting Valka have grey hair and wrinkles and actually looking her age

[limesandcoconuts]

httyd meme dump by yours truly bc it’s currently 23:31 so why not

[weaponizedducks]

ok but where tf were heather and dagur in thw. i was fully expecting them to be there

[hiccupbutpurple]

I love that Hiccup had a whole episode of rtte dedicated to reminding him to makes plans and not act impulsively out of vengeance or other emotions.

I love that he was the one to remind Stoick that they need to make plans when he struggled with his fears.

And the Hiccup in The Hidden World appears.

(Sure he kinda did a similar thing to Stoick when his fear took over but eventually Stoick listened to reason and he didn’t make any truly dramatic decisions, Gobber and the others were there to remind Hiccup to make a plan. The others could’ve done more but you can’t tell me Hiccup would’ve made such a stupid choice just because of his emotions after the things he learnt. The part where Gobber was like ‘I feel like I’m always asking you this question, but is there an actual plan’ just proves how out of touch it is because Hiccup has learnt to use his brain even when there is little time to make solid plans.

Yes Hiccup can act impulsively from time to time but after rtte, those times had solid reasons and were not decisions that were ‘let’s leave our island and leave ourself completely vulnerable without making any sort of plan for what we are going to do’ levels of stupid.)

Rtte Hiccup would be horrified at what THW Hiccup does.

[saturnniidae]

Two of the best dreamworks trilogies of all time fr!!

[smallfrogpleasedtomeetyou]

honestly rip mala and her entire village after the great protector just like leaves ig in httyd 3 yall will be missed

[howtodrawyourdragon]

Wondering if Astrid's character is actually bad. Or if people see her, the female love interest, in a relationship with the main male character, see her girly and emotional side on top of the badass warrior side, see her get in trouble and be saved by her main male character boyfriend (completely disregard that he needs just as much saving and that she does a lot of that saving) and then call her character bad.

[000marie198]

There's something absolutely ridiculous that happened in THW that I can't stop comparing with RTTE

Hiccup just decided on a whim they will leave their home island and move to another island because they encountered a foe who really seemed more boastful than he was dangerous or smart. Like, canonically, the gang has fought against enemies far more strategic and far more dangerous than that guy I keep forgetting the name of. Anyways, to not derail, Mister Best Chief Berk Has Ever Seen made the most nonsensical and ridiculous decisions, one of them including leaving Berk. For absolutely no reason that made sense in regards to the events that took place throughout the franchise. And just randomly went one direction with a whole tribe carrying everything and just traveling till they came across a random island.

This is so so SO STUPID! In RTTE, they had to scout out MULTIPLE islands to find one which was safe, fitting and optimal for living and even the one they ended up choosing had a couple of dragon species they had never seen and had to adjust to living with. Why did everyone become so so moronic in that movie to make the most ridiculous decisions with zero build-up?

Like, even fireworm dragons send ahead scouts to check if their immigration route and destination is safe for travel and stay. What in the world was Hiccup, who is supposed to be a genius here mind you, thinking just ordering the entire village to pack up and pick up everything and moving out without a destination or route in mind? What if you hit a storm halfway ? What if you don't find a safe island to inhabit an entire tribe? What if the travel becomes too long for the poor dragons laden with massive luggage? Fanfic writers do more planning and research and readjustments to make sure their story's plot and events make sense and keeps the characters in-character. But this? It doesn't even compare to a fanfic.

It's just, laughably stupid. What was this kid thinking? Was he thinking? Who knows!

[rosiethedragongeek]

HTTYD 3 did Ruffnut so dirty, we literally see her in the exact same situation in RTTE as when she's trapped and being questioned by Grimmel, but with Viggo, and she's fine??? She's actually competent believe it or not and she's literally so cool I love her so much.

[lilliths-httyd-blog]

THW!Hiccup: Ah yes lets just shove all the dragons in one giant underground enclosure. What could go wrong?

No Dragon Left Behind!Hiccup: Garff nearly ate Smidvarg, time to put an entire ocean between the two of them.