#ruby15 | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

molykica · 2 years ago

Text

Ages and Age Differences in doctor who because I love stats and everyone is talking about how Millie is so young. This is just because I think this type of analysis is fun.

Doctor Comp Pairs: Actor Age Dif, Companion Age

Some characters are estimates I don't care if I'm a little off, I'm focusing on overall trends alright. Also I'm estimating on all doctor ages, I can't be bothered to work it out fr

Some actor ages/differences may seem off bc for some it's when they were casted and for some it was when the first episode of the series airs, some were the first episode the character appears plus sometimes I had to estimate based on birth years so, birth month may have affected the ages. I figure these differences aren't significant enough to change overall trends

Character: Actor Start Age, Current Age | Char Start Age - End Age | age difference btwn character and actor

Doctor Comp Pairs: Actor Age Dif, Companion Age

Doctors

Christopher Eccleston: 40, 58 | ? - 900

David Tennant: 35, 51 | 900-904

Matt Smith: 26, 40 | 904 - 2000

Peter Capaldi: 55, 64 | old, idek

Jodie Whittaker: 36, 40 | very old

Ncuti Gatwa: 30 | very very old

Companions

Rose: 22, 40 | 19 - 21 | 3yrs

Martha: 28, 43 | 23 - 25 | 5 yrs

Donna: 37, 54 | 35 - 39 | abt same

Amy: 21, 34 | (7)- 21 - 32 | none!

Rory: 26, 40 | 21 - 32 | 5 yrs

River: 45, 59 | -9mo - 224 | 179 yrs

Clara: 27, 36 | 23 - 30 | 4 yrs

Bill: 30, 35 | ? 21ish-25 | 5-9ish years

Yaz: 30, 34 | 19 - 24 | 11 yrs

Ryan: 26, 30 | 19 - 20 | 7yrs

Graham: 58, 60 | 50-60s | none!

Dan: 53, 55 | 50s | None!

Ruby: 18 | ? idk 18 probably | none!

Doctor Companion Pairs with Canon or Popular Attraction/Romance

9/Rose: 18 years. Rose was 19

10/Rose: 11 yrs. Rose was 20 probably

10/Martha: 8, Martha was 23

11/River: 19yrs, River was a baby when they met, Romance started when River was about 40 (as mels)

11/Clara: 4yrs, Clara was 23

12/River: 5yrs, River was 200

13/Yaz: 6yrs, Yaz was 19

11/Amy: 5yrs, Amy was 21

Other Doctor Companion Pairs

10, Donna: 3yrs, Donna was 35

11, Amy: 5yrs, Amy was 7 when they met, then 21 when she joined the tardis

11, Rory: 0yrs, Rory was 21 when he joined

12, Clara: 28yrs, Clara was 25 probably

12, Bill: 29yrs, Bill was 21

13, Ryan: 10yrs, Ryan was 19

13, Graham: 22yrs, Graham was around 60

13, Dan: 20yrs, Dan was in his fifties

Ncuti and Millie are 12 years apart.

Also, I didn't Clara and 12 as romantic in this case despite the fact they are a popular ship because there wasn't canon romantic acting between the actors and the actor ages are the focus of this, same reason I counted Amy and 11 as romantic even tho it wasn't really and I hate the concept, but I count it because the actors still kissed.

Companion Age Range

|Ruby|, Rose.Yaz.Ryan, Amy.Rory.Bill, Martha.Clara, Donna, River, Dan, Graham

19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 23, 23, 35, 40, (55, 60)

second number is excluding (outliers) Note: these two aren't mathematical outliers, but they were treated in universe as old, so I'm using them as outliers.

Mean: 29.7 / 24.1

Median: 22 / 21

Romantic Interest Companion Age Range

Rose.Yaz, Amy, Clara.Martha, River

19, 19, 21, 23, 23, (40)

Mean: 24.2 / 21

Median: 22 / 21

Doctor+Companion Actor Age Diff Range

All:

Rory11, Donna10, Clara11, Amy11.River12, Yaz13, Martha10, Ryan13, Rose10, |Ruby15|, Rose9, River11, Dan13, Graham13, Clara12, Bill12

0, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 18, 19, 20, 22, 28, 29

Mean: 12.5

Median: 10

Romantic Interactions:

Clara11, Amy11.River12, Yaz13, Martha10, Rose10, |Ruby15|, Rose9, River11

4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 11, 18, 19

Mean: 9.5

Median: 7

Youngest Companions!

Overall: 19 (Rose, Yaz, Ryan)

Romantic: 19 (Rose, Yaz)

Ruby would be the new youngest at 18, but by the time the show actually starts she and her character may be older, 19 seems like a reasonable assumption for how old her character will be.

Oldest Companions!

Overall: 60 (Graham)

Romantic: 40 (River) / 23 (Martha, Clara)

Smallest Age Difference!

Overall: 0 (Rory and 11)

Romantic: 4 (Clara and 11)

Biggest Age Difference!

Overall: 29 (Bill and 12)

Romantic: 19 (River and 11)

My analysis here isn't to make a big point, or call any fans out or pass judgement on whatever, it's just to look at certain patterns that I see here and possible reasons for them as an exercise in examining a person's biases and perceptions. The point is to be aware of these biases, not say that anyone with a bias is evil or stupid or whatever.

With a 12 year age difference, Ruby15 would be the 7th biggest overall age difference and the 3rd biggest romantic age difference if their relationship were to be romantic

So yes, she is young, and she should not have any romantic relationship with/interest in the doctor, BUT, she will probably be the same age as Rose and Yaz were and everyone was fine with those, I have seen ppl talk about how Rose was too young, but I haven't seen many ppl complain that Yaz met the doctor at 19 and is too young for it. So idk why everyone now is like "shes so young she better not be a romantic interest". Well, actually, I'm confident it's a gender thing but whatever.

Lots of ppl did think the Billie Piper/Christopher Eccleston age difference (22 and 40) was weird, but Ncuti and Millie are closer in age than them. PLUS, Matt Smith and Alex Kingston (26 and 45) were further apart by a year and I've literally never seen a single person say that it was weird that they played romantic interests or that Matt was too young, despite only being like 4 years older than Billie was.

My discussion of gender here, yes the doctor is non binary, but they are perceived by a large number of the public and fandom as the gender they present as and the gender biases still apply to the actors and the gender the doctor is presenting as. So I'm discussing men and women for the purposes of this analysis. I'm also discussing the age the doctor "presents" as (referred to as p-age), meaning, the age of the actor, or about how old I think a random person would assume they are by looking at them.

Actual Ages: 9 (40), 10 (35), 11 (26), 12 (55), 13 (36), 15 (30)

Perceived Age Range: 9 (35-45), 10 (25-40), 11 (24-35), 12 (50-70), 13 (30-40)

Also, I'm speaking in general trends and assumptions, obviously there are exceptions to such things.

Rose was perceived as younger than Yaz and Ryan seemed to be, both in universe and in the fandom. Rose was referred to as a child frequently, her relationship with her mother emphasized her age, and it was shown to be odd that she was traveling with a 40 year old man, but Jodie was only 4 years younger than him. 9 and 13 presented in a similar age range and never once was the age difference brought up in regard to Yaz or Ryan. Graham was often treated as way older than the group despite being only a bit further from the doctors p-age than Ryan/Yaz.

Part of this could be gender, but, David Tennant was about the same age as Jodie and they were perceived very similarly to each other age-wise in universe, generally younger but still established (out of their 20s) adults. So it's probably more likely Christopher Eccleston was perceived as older, both due to physical appearance and character behavior. 9 acted more serious and severe and just older than 10 or 13. 9 and 12 are the only two who acted like old ppl consistently, 10, 11, and 13 acted much more youthful, which lines up with the ages of the actors.

Both 10 and 13 were the same age (35 and 36), although I think 13 was often perceived as younger than 10 because she was a woman. Some would argue she acted younger/less mature, but I think those traits were also displayed by 10, but 13 was perceived differently bc of the unconscious infantilization of women. There were some parts where she seemed to act younger, more similar to 11 (talking about cookies, easily distracted "puppy behavior") but, even then, she may have been encouraged to act like that because cast/crew perceived her as younger bc of her gender.

Speaking of "similar to 11", 11 was the youngest looking, but although a lot of the time he acted goofy and less mature, Matt played the "timeless being with a young face" very well, and despite his youth he did an amazing job at acting weary and wise, he really felt, at least to me, older than 10 even tho he was like ten years younger than tennant was.

The traits that I think made people perceive the doctor's true ancient age the most were the weariness of being alive so long and the frustration of being wiser than everyone else. Personally, I think Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi did the best at this. Matt had a lot of moments where he'd be all silly running around but then take a serious moment and show his anger/age/weariness, but the most notable scenes for Matt emphasizing the age to me were at Demons Run during his coronal runaway speech, The Big Bang rewind sequence, when he meets Clara as a victorian nanny, and the beast below. So despite his youth and him acting very young, he balanced it out with a lot of serious moments where he rly seemed older.

Jodie on the other hand, even though she had a lot of more youthful moments, she didn't have as many harsh serious moments to balance it out, and I just don't remember many scenes where she really seemed that old. Although I do think Jodie is capable of it, she did a really good job of it when the opportunities were there, just, they didn't come as often, which could have been her but it also could have been the direction the production wanted her to go. It came out in a lot of the doctor/master scenes and a couple others.

So to summarize my long winded ramble here, I think Jodie was perceived as younger than 10 and 11 despite looking similar ages partially because she's a woman and partially bc she wasn't aggressively angry as much as they were. But I have a suspicion that she was discouraged from acting aggressive the way 11 and even 10 did when they were angry bc she was a woman and women are perceived more negatively when acting more aggressive than men. Like, Jodie never had her ANGRY MOMENT that made you go "oh yeah that's the oncoming storm." So anyway, let women be angry, don't make them more passive than men in the same situation.

I forgot this was supposed to be about age differences hold on.

Okay yeah, 13 and Yaz weren't perceived the same was as 9 and Rose or even 10 and Rose because 13 is a women and women are infantilized but also they aren't perceived as "threats" bc female abusers are taken much less seriously than men especially with age differences. Never once was it mentioned that a 19 year old girl dating a 36 year old women would be weird. Yaz's mom literally asked Yaz if they were dating, and she asked it the same way she asked if her and Ryan were dating. 13 was not perceived as too old to be dating Yaz. This is not the same thing that happened with Rose. Jackie and Mickey repeatedly mentioned the age being weird with 9 before they knew his real age, and 9 was generally assumed to be an older guardian of Rose rather than a romantic interest because of his age. Even 10, who was 35, was treated as much older than Rose in a way 13 never was with Yaz.

But it could be argued that character ages are less signifiant in terms of dynamics because the doctor is obviously thousands of years old and that the actor ages are more important in determining the "appropriateness" of the age difference. In which case, I'd bring up 11 and River. Never ONCE, in the whole series, from Silence in the Library to The Husbands of River Song was River's age mentioned. Nor have I seen a single person in the fandom ever bring up Matt and Alex's age difference. And there are some random factors with River not being fully human, and Matt being older closer to 30 than 20, the weird reverse timeline btwn them, but I think gender is the big one here.

Alex Kingston was 45, the oldest for a reoccurring female companion, but to be fair, she doesn't look that old. At least to me, she could have been early 30s and I wouldn't have been surprised. She acted in such a way that made her feel ageless, she was flirty and active like a young person but also experienced and stern like an older person, that tied with her mysterious past and knowledge made her seem like she could be in a wider age range. And a lot of that was just because Alex Kingston is an amazing actor. Like, certain scenes she definitely seemed younger or older, like in Lets Kill Hitler she acted very much like a rebellious teenager but in episodes like the big bang, and the library ones she seemed much older.

Women are generally expected to physically look younger than men of their same age, which, from a real life standpoint might explain why Alex just didn't look as old as Eccleston for example, because she's probably made more effort irl to look younger, with makeup, products, whatever. And again, older women are not perceived the same way older men are when they are with younger partners. Like, 9 and Rose kissing looked weird to me, even the first time I watched it I was thought of the actors like "hes old enough to be her dad thats weird to watch" but I didn't even realize Alex Kingston was so much older than Matt Smith the first FEW times I watched it. Even knowing, I just can't view the age difference as much as I can with 9 and Rose. And yes, Matt is older than Billie was, and Billie was styled as a teen/young adult while Matt wore old man clothes and acted older. But even in The Husbands of River Song, seeing River and 12 (only a 5 year age difference) looked weirder to me than River and 11 (19 year difference). Like, Peter Capaldi just seemed much older than Alex Kingston than she ever seemed older than Matt Smith.

Okay I'm done now, I don't have a good conclusion or anything, I just got bored and have other things to do so I'm gonna stop rambling. Hi Ana if you read this far!!!!

#doctor who #11th doctor #river song #do I really have to tag all this #i dont really care if ppl read this or not actually

13 notes · View notes