#s4 mike is in his s1 nancy era

[cringengl]

An underrated similarity between Mike and Nancy when in their relationships with El and Steve is that people think they aren't being like themselves, not just the characters but the GA as well...

People talking about Mike after season 4:

Vs Barb talking about Nancy in s1

It's literally the exact same reaction to Nancy and Mike's behaviour. Although there are a lot examples of Stranger Things characters disliking how Mike is acting in his relationship with El, such as Will- "you're ruining everything and for what, so you can swap spit with some stupid girl?", Dustin- "it's bullshit" and obviously Hopper, I think the GA's reaction is always really important.

Although we start season 1 off with Nancy dating Steve and the scene with Barb happens very early on in s1 so we don't know Nancy beforehand, the reactions towards Mike are so important because we have known him for 4 seasons now.

The Duffers want to give a certain impression and the casual watchers who don't closely analyse Stranger Things are most likely to pick this up. We are supposed to realise that Mike isn't being himself, there's a reason why the contrast between season 2 Mike and early season 4 Mike is so insane and so many people talk about it.

It's because through Mike's efforts to conform and date El, he not only is mistreating his friends but is also losing himself. This is literally what the rain fight is about and is abundant in both s3 and s4.

Stranger Things is all about learning to accept and love yourself for who you are and neither Nancy or Mike are themselves when they are in these relationships, which why they will never be endgame.

[blingyu]

Why I Think the theme of Stranger Things Supports Byler Endgame

Ok... this will be hella rambly (all my posts on here are just rants tbh lol)

But I think the themes and messages of this show STRONGLY support Byler endgame over anything else to be honest.

The first thing I want to make abundantly clear: STRANGER THINGS IS NOT AN 80s NOSTALGIA BAIT. It drives me insane for so many reasons when people say this.

For one: Stranger Things is not just looking at the 80s from an idealistic pov. Stranger Things to me critiques the era more than anything. Sure, we do have our fun 80s moments like malls and riding you bikes with your friends, and all the retro tech. But it's so much more than that. When you watch the show just for the vibes~ you miss the context.

The party is comprised of people who're disabled, black, and gay living in a small town in Indiana. They're not just seen as weird because they're nerdy to other kids, they're seen as weird because they are inherently different than what society deems as acceptable. All these aspects are something they can't and shouldn't need to fix. Also in S1 the idea of the loveless relationship between the Wheeler's was right in your face.

Jonathan critiqued the idea of Nancy ending up like her parents. Something comfortable, maybe- but not passionate or romantic. The man gets a nice job, they get married, get a house, have babies, the mother is the caretaker. The nuclear family. The Wheeler's are the embodiment of doing everything "right" by the 80s standards, but the show has not shown that as a positive thing; it's quite literally the opposite. It's depressing.

Idk to me I disliked the idea of Mike and El ending up together long before I liked Byler, not because I disliked El (anyone who hates on her can choke) but because I couldn't see how that could be her ending. When people who ship them say they want it to end with them getting married or having kids idk... I just don't see how that fits with the story the show has always been trying to tell.

That it's okay to be different. Different from whatever bullshit thing society has to say, and how in Stranger Things society is in the form of 1980's Hawkins Indiana, a place where they're God-fearing, and if you stray from being just like them you're bad.

I think all the characters fit that in some way or another. Except... Mike? Well, for those who say he's straight, anyways.

And with El, seeing her with Max in S3 was like a breath of fresh air, seeing the positive feminine influence and Max wanting El to stop thinking of others, think what she wants.

Some people don't like a possible El independence arc, because she does deserve love. I get that angle, but idk to me her ending up on her own isn't sad. I think it's sad that a woman ending up without a romantic interest is even seen as sad. Why?

In the 80s and even now the idea of a woman NEEDING a man was the expectation. If you were happily alone that was seen as wrong. You should want babies, and a husband, and you should want to be a housewife/stay at home mother. Honestly, it was terrible.

So: We don't want Mike to end up like his father (the scene in S4 when El leaves the table paralleling S1 with Karen) and we don't want El to think she needs to be in a relationship to feel happy and loved and content w life.

Then honestly I think the way they've set that up makes a Mike and El breakup super likely.

And with Will's feelings towards Mike confirmed, Stranger Things wrapping up to be a gay love story is incredibly fitting with the themes of being different and turning the 1980s film and television tropes on its head

[finnickodaiir]

anything you want to see in st5???

Ohh good question!

El and Lucas interacting.

More Lucas and Erica scenes

Treat Lucas and Erica well please, last season had the lowest lows for how they were treated.

Mike and Dustin need to apologize to Lucas

Joyce and Jonathan having scenes again, it's been a long time coming.

Mike/Will, but thats a given

Mike doesn't get to be mad about the painting, I hate that theory

Either make the Willel dynamics more even or drop it all together if Will is gonna get done dirty for El's sake like he was in S4 and S3 to a less extent

No more Steve and Dustin, I'm over that dynamics and S4 just proved that they're both kinda over each other and that it feels forced at this point.

Let Mike and Nancy have more than 1 conversation per season.

More Joyce and El scenes. Also some Hopper scenes with Will and Jonathan.

Ted and Karen divorce era

Let Mike be more like his S1-S2 self and less of whatever the fuck he was in S3 and S4. Also have him face consequences for his actions, instead of it being brushed aside.

No more new main characters or side characters disguised as mains that take up 80% of screentime, but have no point in being there.

Give Argyle a last name!

Either give Steve an interesting plotline that doesn't involve romance or give him the S3 Will treatment.

Don't kill Max and don't let her story revolve around B*lly guilt

Flesh out Robin/Vickie, they're cute but it's pretty underdeveloped as of rn.

[sevensided]

What we're your favourite looks for all the characters across the seasons? In terms of outfits and or hair

For me it would be

Jonathan - series 3 hair and work uniform

Nancy - series 3 hair or the blue outfit from series 4

Joyce - series 1 1000%

Mike - huge fan of the airport outfit and or the hell fire outfit also loving the long hair

Dustin - SNOWBALL

Lucas - I remember loving his outfit in the finale of series 2

Erica - series 3 iconic

Robin - series 3 or the silly hat

Steve - series 3 or the yellow outfit from s4

Will - the outfit he goes missing in is SUCH a classic, and no one was rocking the ghost busters outfit like him

El - I loved the dress from series 4 and the blue outfit from series 2 the yellow shirt from series 3 is beyond iconic tho AND THE PINK DRESS?? She kills it every time

Max - I love everything but especially her original outfit, or the red and white stripes from series 3

Hopper - series 2 hopper is so fantastic I love him so much.

Hope this isn't too rambly haha

I absolutely love this!

Jonathan: Probably S3 too. This season he genuinely looked like a rodent.

Nancy: S2... what a babe. Or S1, because I love her ponytail!

Joyce: Eh, I don't really mind. She's gorgeous any time.

Mike: This season. Holy fuck. Finn Wolfhard. Oh my God.

Dustin: He was such a squirt in S1! Though I do think he's matured in S4 and he looks great.

Lucas: S4. Caleb is, uh, very fine looking, I will simply say that much. I liked his jock outfit this season, the one he wears for all of Vol. 2.

Erica: I agree, S3 is too iconic to pass up!

Robin: Unpopular opinion but I hate Scoop's Ahoy outfits and they are awful and ugly. S4, by far, she looked incredible this season, and whew is Maya is babe.

Steve: Honestly... S1-2. I'm sorry! I just love the denim!

Will: I so agree with you about S1, but S4 because Noah carries that plaid.

El: Her in her Joyce-era is everything I ever, ever wanted, and I'm obsessed with her little pink skivvy that she wears!

Max: I love how she looks in S4 but S2 is the best wardrobe.

Hopper: Yes, S2 for sure! I get how David is now apparently a pin-up, but Fat Rambo has a place in my heart.

I loved doing this! Thank you!

[kaypeace21]

Jonathan Byers (For your character questions Ask)

favorite thing about them

He’s incredibly caring and selfless to his family. He’s extremely devoted to Will and Joyce (frankly taking on more than such a young guy should have to). At 17 he’s discussing helping pay for his mom’s mortgage . Then of course, Jonathan is a surrogate dad to Will in a lot of respects. In s1 it’s cannon that he cooks breakfast for Will, wakes him up, drives him places, works extra shifts to pay the house bills. Gives Will coded pep-talks about his sexuality. And sometimes calls Will (coded fatherly nicknames that dads give their kids)- like “kid, buddy, pal, and sport”. He’s paralleled to all the ST mom’s taking pics of their kids in their ghost busters costumes, as well. I love Jonathan. He pretty much sacrificed his entire childhood to be the father figure for Will, that Lonnie wasn’t. He did all of this since he wanted Will to have more than he did (aka a Dad).Jonathan  in s1 even said in the past Joyce had “anxiety issues”. And tells Joyce, “This is not an okay time for you to shut down,” implying there has been times when she has shut down, and left him with the  burden of caring for Will and herself .  Joyce even apologizes in s1 for not being there for him as a kid ( cause she was too busy working). Many s4 movies emphasize Jonathan’s devotion to Will and knowledge that he sacrificed his childhood to do so .

least favorite thing about them

He constantly think he’s inadequate and often refuses help. Calling himself a “weirdo”.  Not telling Joyce of the supernatural threat cause “she’s been through enough”. And constantly apologizing for not being there for Will- and blaming himself for what’s happened to him. 

Like joyce said “you act like you’re all alone in this world. But you’re not!” And Bob reiterates his trust issues saying “I’m really getting through to them- well except Jonathan he’s a tough cookie to crack.” Murray also parrots this saying “trust issues, am I right? Something to do with your dad.”  Jonathan has severe trust issues and I hope he heals from that .

favorite line

"You shouldn't like things because people tell you you're supposed to.”

brOTP

Obviously - my brOTP is Jonathan and Will.

OTP

Don’t really have 1. I used to ship jancy (still wasn’t fond of the camera incident though). I like jonathan and nancy but after s3 I think they may be better off not together . I like both but I think maybe they’re not the best fit together.

nOTP

if we’re talking about popular st ships of him like Jancy and I guess... stoncy & steve/jon? I’m mostly indifferent. I feel like nOTP’s are more vitriolic. 

But I just feel like Jancy isn’t right for each other, in the long run.Nancy only apologized for claiming Jon was sexist but not for making fun of him for being poor and his dad leaving -calling him “oliver twist” (a poor orphan). Which clearly pissed him off since when he talked to her on the phone later he did a clap back referencing the book saying he was with ‘Fagin and the gang’. Which is similar to Mike apologizing for being ‘jealous of Max’ but not for the fact he lied (the reason for the breakup in the first place). The fact Nancy says “here comes the Oliver Twist routine AGAIN”. Implies Jonathan has tried to open up to her in the past but she dismissed it as just bellyaching. I just can’t really get over that.  I don’t think either was completely in the right though. I talked about all the pairings (including jancy) and their parallels to other ships, in way more detail- here and why I don’t see them as endgame.

random headcanon

- Since Nancy says in s2  Jonathan likes reading Vonnegut. I think it may reflects a lot about Jonathan!

Vonnegut like Jonathan was born in Indiana- like jonathan.He was an atheist and a humanist and served as the honorary president of the American Humanist Association.Some quotes by him:  “I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead...  purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved.”

A lot of his books critique society in a scifi form.

- In Breakfast of Champions (1973), Vonnegut vows to “clear [his] head of all the junk,” and race and racism are at the top of his list of “junk” to be cleared.  In the book he critiques colonialism, and institutional and social racism predominantly focusing on the mistreatment of black people. “I think I am trying to clear my head of all the junk in there...I suspect that this is something most white Americans, and nonwhite Americans who imitate white Americans, should do. The things other people have put into my head, at any rate, do not fit together nicely, are often useless and ugly, are out of proportion with one another, are out of proportion with life as it really is outside my head.”

-  Slaughter house 5 (1972) was based on his own experiences as a  ww2 soldier. “It sees war as a tragedy so great that perhaps only the mask of comedy allows one to look it in the eye. Vonnegut is a sad-faced comedian.  The book says Billy may be hallucinating about his experiences with the Tralfamadorians as a way to escape a world destroyed by war—a world that he cannot understand ( heavy Will foreshadowing). Even while Vonnegut admits the inevitability of death, with or without war, he also tells us that he has instructed his sons not to participate in massacres or in the manufacture of machinery used to carry them out”. The phrase “so it goes” represented the deep sadness and resignation to death- appearing with almost every death in the novel. This phrase become a popular mantra in the Anti-vietnam war movement.Mr. Vonnegut wrote at the end of the book, “was shot two nights ago. He died last night. So it goes. Martin Luther King was shot a month ago. He died, too. So it goes. And every day my Government gives me a count of corpses created by military science in Vietnam. So it goes.”

- In a letter from 1965, he also recommended a novel to his wife. ‘here is a really lovely book about it in my study -- on a top shelf. It's red, and it's called The ABZ of Love." “Indeed, the book was in many ways ahead of its time and of the era's mainstream, pushing hard against bigotry and advocating for racial, gender, and LGBT equality with equal parts earnestness and wry wit.”

-his novels also had a lot of gay characters and this caused a lot of controversy at the time.

Reflecting  how he’ll probably be supportive of Will-  which was foreshadowed in s1 when he was encouraging Will not to behave a certain way cause his homophobic dad wants him to.

unpopular opinion

probably Jancy not being endgame

song i associate with them

-’should I stay or should i go’ . obvious cliche choice, i know.

favorite picture of them

Hmm... I’m not sure. I just find Jonathan & will exchanging looks with each other and laughing precious.