#same with starline and mimic

[frostbitten-winter]

favorite sonic character

Oooo thats a really good question!

Shadow is usually my favorite but sometimes when I consume a new media one of the characters from that will become my favorite

[bumblekastclips]

KYLE CROUSE: Here’s one from— a SuperChat from Joey the Sonic fan. “What’s every IDW Sonic villain’s favorite food?” Go ahead.[TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I clipped some audio of technical difficulties here, hence the somewhat abrupt cut.]

IAN FLYNN: Favorite food… we’ve seen Eggman with his giant hoagies, so we’re gonna assume he likes a good sandwich. KYLE: I, uh, I also enjoy a good sandwich. [chuckles] IAN: Uh, Starline also appreciates a good sandwich because that’s what the Doctor eats, and therefore it’s clearly what he should enjoy immensely. KYLE: Yup, mhm. IAN: Um, Rough and Tumble like the absolute greasiest, cheapest, nastiest take-out pizza. Like, it’s cardboard with ketchup. It’s vile, no one should like it, they are the only people who eat it, and they swear that it’s a delicacy. KYLE: Uh-huh. [laughs] IAN: Um… let’s see. Surge really enjoyed chili dogs until she found out that was Sonic’s thing, and now she hates them. KYLE: Uh-huh, but she also still really likes them… just secretly. IAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so what— what is like, the antithesis of a chili dog? …Bacon cheeseburger? KYLE: [chuckles] I don’t know. It seems those are complimentary, I don’t know… IAN: [unintelligible] ‘Cause I don’t see— I don’t think she would even go so far as to, like, eat a salad. KYLE: Switch over to health food? IAN: Yeah. Maybe she— KYLE: Or maybe she just eats— IAN: Nah, maybe she embraces the chili dog because it’s going to be her chili dog from now on. That’s her thing. KYLE: I was just gonna say, maybe she just eats the hot dog with no bun, or anything. IAN: [laughs] Just grabs a fistful of chili, grabs the hot dog at the same time, shoves the whole thing into her face? KYLE: [interrupting] No, no, no chili. Just the dog. She doesn’t even cook it, she just rips it right out of the package and starts gnawing on it like a freakin’ dog. IAN: [laughing] KYLE: There you go! IAN: Ah, and Mimic enjoys shaved ice. KYLE: There you go, sure. Why not? [chuckles] Not much of a food, but… and I should know, I eat a lot of ice. I’m one of those perpetual ice chewers. IAN: Mhm, right there with ‘ya.

—— TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: Please remember that nothing that is said on BumbleKast is canon! It’s just some guys and their opinions occasionally spitballing ideas. If you don’t like an answer, you don’t have to take it as Word of God or anything like that. It’s all just for fun!

[all-together-now]

To Everyone(yes, everyone on the list): what is any of yours’ greatest fears, …that does not involve losing a loved one or something like that?

"Water," Sonic said.

"Lightning," Tails shuddered.

"Ghosts..." Knuckles trailed off.

"Heartbreak," Amy sighed.

"Heights," Blaze shivered.

"...myself," Surge frowned.

"A...A lot of things," Trip whined.

"Copyright lawyers," Honey said.

"...Starline," Kit muttered.

"Clowns," Marine scowled.

"...my dad..." Tangle whispered.

"Mimic. Disguising as one of my friends," Whisper said coldly.

"Gun fire," Crasher grimaced.

"A black eye," Vixy said, covering one of her eyes.

"A dud fuse!" Bean sobbed.

Bark pulled up a diagram of global warming.

"...love..." Jewel mumbled.

"My mom," Lanolin said distantly, "Or running out of coffee."

"Scary movies," Cream fretted.

"The fact there are starving children out there," Vanilla said.

"Failing my directives," Gemerl clenched his fists.

"Letting a criminal get away," Vector growled.

"Coming out..." Espio frowned.

"The tax man!" Charmy screamed.

"Being too weak," Mighty said, staring at his fist.

"High winds," Ray said.

"...failing..." Tikal sighed.

"Same," Shadow nodded.

"Getting caught," Rouge scoffed.

"ROUGE," Omega boomed.

"Oh, yeah, I change my answer," Shadow cut in.

"Uh...Lanolin, at one point," Barry chuckled.

"My old directives," Mecha Sonic said.

"Ha-a-a-aving no purpose," Mecha Knuckles looked away.

"FAILING TO REPAIR MY SCRAPNIKS PROPERLY," Sigma said sadly.

"Mecha Sonic, to be honest," Benedict shrugged.

"Oh yeah, same. Especially when he was all evil and shit," Rancheros added.

"Not feeling like...myself," Florentine said.

"Fire," Belle sweated.

"The state of the future," Silver scowled.

"Strange sounds I hear in the woods," Big said.

"Nothing!" Eggman proclaimed, "Er...except maybe Chaos."

"Metal Sonic," Agent Stone whispered, being stared at from behind by the robot.

"The Metal Virus," Rough and Tumble said together.

[lemurballing]

i know everyone is onboard with mimic onscreen murder via whisper BUT; here are a couple nonlethal ways you could also make him less of an issue (under the assumption that IDW can deal with killing him accidentally, but that a main character outright personally killing him is unlikely…)

1: blinded - it’d restrict his reaction time and awareness in combat, and remove his ability to become aware of current appearances and colors; he wouldn’t be able to mimic anyone accurately anymore at a certain point. he’d lose his most effective tool, and if he gets anywhere he’d have to learn how to be actually imposing or effective.

2: loss of limbs - 1-2 arms or legs, in a permanent loss he can’t regrow or shapeshift around (though he probably could be given octopus regeneration…). similarly would restrict his ability to fight, and since he can’t shapeshift a new one, he wouldn’t be able to imitate anyone accurately at all unless they also have lost the same limbs. (i don’t think this option would work canonically, considering mimic can imitate things like tangle’s tail, when he doesn’t have his own tail - but maybe with the phantom pains/whatever mental trauma from losing limbs?)

3: my favorite: burn damage (ie from an explosion) - scar his skin over, removing his ability to shapeshift (assuming it is tied to his skin). he’d still have his own body, but would be entirely incapable of shapeshifting as well as in immense pain.

my own thoughts? i’m tired of mimic hanging over the storyline, especially when all he does over and over is try to kill whisper secretly. i am sympathetic to tangle not being willing to kill - but yeah, mimic can get killed, i’m cool with that.

it’s going to drive a stake between tangle and whisper until tangle can come to terms with what it would actually say about whisper and herself if she managed to kill mimic - or between tangle and silver, if he did the deed itself - which would likely mean separating them for a time… i’m thinking the big reason tangle is so against killing isn’t because of any practical reason or any belief mimic could reform, but she’s afraid of ‘falling’. she’s a little flexible, but tangle DOES have strict morals, and ‘no killing’ is high among them; it would make her or whisper a Bad Person if they killed anyone, even mimic. additionally, tangle is the sort of person who would regret it - her stopping whisper is either trying to spare whisper from feeling that guilt (even though whisper wouldn’t), or herself from feeling it in proximity.

of course, with mimic dead and whisper finally at ease, tangle would see why it worked - i think she could change her mind. it’s just in the interim while they pursue that goal that she’s going to be conflicted and/or hurt.

also - with this mimic plot being started in T&W, released to take place around issue 16 iirc, and lasting up to issue *76*, mimic has been around and been a problem for SIXTY issues - a longer stay than starline had!! mimic doesn’t deserve that sort of linger, even if he’s only sparingly been present IN the comic - he haunts whisper like starline haunted surge. (additionally, starline is a more compelling villain than mimic ever was - the guy who just killed his teammates for a bribe? the guy who’s just chronically such a sellout coward he betrayed multiple other people before the DC and even after reflecting on his own actions in shame, did not stop himself and turn to a better path? he’s a coward, not really a ‘villain’ - a scary mask and a tiger lying in wait, scared off if you turn eyes on him.)

last little aside - as hilarious as mimic’s fumble (“wrong number…?”) in 75 was, that storyline REALLY didn’t deserve that ending - a rugpull accidental reveal when mimic had already been leaving SO MANY CLUES to his true identity. he’s genuinely such a bad actor i don’t know why he ever considered it as a career path - he should’ve gone for runway model or special effects or something. not being given away by his wishy-washy, halfway-presence despite saying he was enthusiastic to be helping out, missing during critical moments, being captured on live footage as the phantom rider wearing duo’s scarf instead of the glowy scarf? honestly, mimic, just leave the scarf off - if the real one’s all glowy, it’s not going to make a difference that you have this dull knit scarf on, just pretend you can disable the scarf to remove handholds!! this guy has a flair for the dramatic and he’s the sort of guy to be the Most Obvious among us importor, has never won a single game except for the other 9 year olds in the public lobby beefing the vote. especially since tangle and whisper had prior experience with trapping him, it would have been FAR more satisfying to see them setting up casual tests of trust to throw suspicion on him… nyeeeeggghhh

[randomthefox]

The latest issue was such a nothing burger because it’s just an idiot plot, the worst kind of idiot plot. It’s the one where the writers think it isn’t one. None of this would have happened if Surge had did what she should have done and ended up doing anyways in issue 67. Like… fuck. What even was the point? I thought this was about Surge and Kit wanting to learn about their past, something that didn’t even make any sense because Surge made it very clear in issue 50 that she didn’t care about learning who she was because her life must have sucked if she was kidnapped by Starline and no one went looking for her. Apparently Evan realized this too because that idea was completely dropped, except now Surge and Kit had literally no reason to work for Clutch. Clutch has no leverage over them.

Surge could have just killed Clutch at before the beginning. Sonic, Tails and Amy could have just called Jewel to clear things up at the beginning because literally no one would stop them if they made it clear that they thought something fishy was going on. No one could stop them. So many things in this arc happen for reasons that don’t make sense. Why does everything have to be so contrived?

Kind of pathetic how it was a double length 40 page issue and yet nothing fucking happened in it lol

Some dipshit Gary stu creators pet villain with no feats was defeated, after the comic desperately tried to pretend he was a credible threat that could stand toe to toe with the main cast for so long that it stopped being funny and started being awkward. Whooptie do? Nobody gave a shit about Clutch anyway and it was really embarrassing that the comic wanted us to take him seriously. This is Sonic the Hedgehog. Eggman is the villain who actually matters, and he barely fucking exists in this comic. Clutch being "defeated" doesn't matter because Clutch is a nobody.

Restoration HQ was destroyed? Tell me what plot significance Restoration HQ had to the comic. Tell me what plot significance the RESTORATION AS AN ORGANIZATION has to the comic. None of the main characters of the comic are even fucking part of the restoration, let alone hang out at the HQ. It's not like Restoration HQ is the characters home base and now they are going to measurably suffer because of its loss. Hell the issue ends with Sonic and Tails GOING HOME. Back to TAILS' HOUSE. What better demonstration could there be of how little Restoration HQ fucking mattered?

If the issue ended with the ship crashing into Tails's house and destroying it, THAT would have been a significant event. Because Tails's house is a location that actually matters. But Restoration HQ, and the Restoration itself, shouldn't even fucking exist. Because it doesn't exist in the video games. So who cares if it gets flattened? There's no difference to the comic whether that location exists or not.

Surge just fucking. Left. And went to San Francisco to start annoying people there. So nothing happened with her.

Mimic left, which was exactly the status quo of his character before he joined up with Clutch for no reason whatsoever. So no significant changes there.

Lanolin is still a cunt. Nothing about her changed. She literally just has the same speech she had in issue #58

Literally nothing actually happened in this entire storyline lol.

[beevean]

Just when I thought the comics couldn’t get any worse, the latest arc is going to have eggman team up with sonic, but here’s the kicker, sonic and eggman are working together to solve a mystery. Sonic is perfectly ok teaming up with the same guy that in the comics (ignoring the games) created a zombie virus, started a war, nearly kill all his friends constantly, and even ditched his puppet daughter. The matter of fact that people tout this comic understands the character are off their rockers.

big oof

I read Random's post, and you know what? Yeah. On one hand, it's absurd that Sonic teams up with Eggman at the drop of a hat - the last time was in #55, not too long ago! And it was for something as simple as exploring Starline's base! Say what you want about Sonic and Eggman teaming up in the games, but at least it was a matter of life and death every time! Where's the Sonic who has long learned that Eggman is full of shit and you can only count on his help when his skin is on the line? And ofc, way to undermine Eggman again, since he's clearly the "lesser evil" compared to Clutch and Mimic. Joy.

On the other, the fact that he'd rather accept Eggman's help than discuss things with Lanolin, who is in a position of authority (she's the referee from what I gathered) is extremely hilarious, and I don't blame him. If this was a well-written story, I'd almost think Lanolin being Mimic's perfect pawn because she's so unlikeable that she alienates everyone is a deliberate plot point, and it would be genius.

[starknife-starmimi]

I have a headcanon that Mimic has a habit of wrapping his tentacles around Starline, and they're slightly sensitive to touch.

One night, they were both lying in the same bed. Mimic seemed asleep, while Starline was peacefully reading. Suddenly, without realizing it, a tentacle had wrapped itself around his arm, and by the time he paid attention, most of them were gently holding him. Without thinking much about it, Starline kissed one of the tentacles. The effect was immediate; Mimic jumped in fright, and he might have even fallen out of bed.

—Why the hell did you do that!? —said Mimic flustered.

—You didn't like it? —Starline asked calmly.

—That's not the point, dam it! —he growled, annoyed, his tentacles looking restless.

—Did you like it or not ? —he asked curiously.

Mimic fell silent, his gaze drifting anywhere but at Starline.

Starline sighed in disappointment.

—I apologize. I won't do it again —he added, then sank back into his reading.

—I didn't say that… damn it, Starline.

Sorry, my English isn't great. My native language is Spanish. I love this couple, so I decided to write a little headcanon 💖✨ I'll try to contribute a little more often, as I said I love this couple and I love your writing.

YES! YES! YES! What's even better is this could happen if Mimic is actually asleep due to the nature of their tentacles. I just aaahhhhhhhh

I love this ship very much, and I am flattered to hear that you enjoy my writing! I enjoy your contributions to the ship, but don't feel obligated! We are all just having fun here ^-^

Also, there is no need to worry about English not being your first language. I do know some basic bits of Spanish, but I am also generally patient with others!

[sage-nebula]

While I personally didn't mind Issue 76, I do share your sentiment with how the Diamond Cutters scene went down. I'm glad Lanolin got to apologize (and was forgiven) for what was an honest mistake anyone new to leadership could make, but I definitely agree that it should have also acknowledged that Silver and Whisper weren't entirely without blame.

That being said, I do feel it is a bit early to be hung up over what we got. This is just the start of a new arc, and while I am disappointed the Doamond Cutters broke up so soon, something tells me they'll probably come together again after a while. And who knows? Maybe Whisper might end up apologizing for her screw-up later down the line!

As for Mimic, if they do end up killing him off, part of me doubts it'd be by Whisper's hand or they'd explicitly show it. (This is a kid's comic after all). At best, they'd probably do a Starline and have him crushed under a building or something, implying his death.

Lanolin didn't need to apologize, though. She didn't do anything wrong. That's the whole problem.

First, let's be clear: The "mistake" it is said that Lanolin made is believing Duo when he said he was who he said he was. She believed that he really was Duo the Cat, not Mimic the Octopus. Let's take a look at the other people who believed this:

Whisper ended up believing this.

Silver ended up believing this.

Tangle believed this.

Jewel believed this.

After Silver's failed attack, everyone believed that Duo was in fact Duo the Cat. So if we're going to say that Lanolin made a mistake in believing that Duo was who he said he was, then we have to also say that literally everyone else also made a mistake. Whisper, Silver, Tangle, and Jewel all made the exact same mistake. Lanolin was not alone in this.

But let's take a look at the real reason people wanted Lanolin to apologize. Because let's be honest: This was never about Lanolin buying into Mimic's disguise. This was about Lanolin opposing Whisper and especially Silver (since Silver is currently one of the fandom darlings, and there is nothing fandoms hate more than when someone opposes their darlings). But let's break that situation down piece by piece, shall we?

First, look at how Lanolin initially approaches Silver hassling Duo (which in this case was him pulling Duo off the balcony using his telekinesis). She's smiling. She teases. She's smiling even in the bottom right panel, though it might be hard to see. Lanolin is amused, she doesn't think this is a serious situation yet, she's being pretty friendly about it.

Whisper is the one who causes Lanolin's attitude to change, and it's important to note several things about how Whisper appears here:

She calls Duo a monster, which is pretty heavy language.

She is fully armed.

Now, I will pause to say here that, yes, Whisper was correct, Duo was in fact Mimic, etc. However, just because we the audience knew that, doesn't mean that the characters in the comic know that (with certainty), and so it's important to discuss this scene from the perspective of the characters in the comic, not from our perspective as the audience.

So, Whisper -- a trained mercenary sniper -- is calling Duo, a young newbie -- a monster, and has been stalking him from the bushes while fully armed. It's not a great look!

But you know what? Lanolin doesn't dismiss her completely. Lanolin does two things here:

She asks Whisper to explain herself (which Silver then says Whisper doesn't have to do, which . . . yes, she does, when she's been stalking someone with her sniper rifle!).

She asks for proof that Duo is Mimic.

This is so often overlooked in fandom discourse about this issue, but it's so important to note. Lanolin asks Whisper for an explanation; she's willing to hear Whisper out despite how unhinged Whisper is behaving already. And then, when given the charge against Duo (that he is actually Mimic), she asks for proof. This is important for two reasons:

It shows that she is not dismissing Whisper and Silver's charges; she is just treating them with the seriousness such charges deserve, considering Mimic is a known murderer.

It shows that Lanolin believes that people are innocent until proven guilty.

And that's really what the discourse behind this entire argument comes down to. Because let's not forget what Whisper's response to Lanolin's ask for proof is:

She said "we will soon" and then expresses their plan: to force Duo to "slip" and reveal that he's Mimic.

Here's the thing. Well, several things.

Apart from being a grossly heinous, inhumane practice, it's a known fact that torture can never be used to garner an honest confession. Anyone will confess to anything, whether they did it or not, if they're put through significant stress or pressure. I'm NOT saying that Whisper and Silver intended to torture Duo, but they clearly were harassing him; Silver pulled him off the balcony with telekinesis, and Whisper wanted to "get" Duo to "slip." This is veering into "harass him until he confesses" territory, and Silver's actions later in the issue echo the same sentiment:

Whisper and Silver here are emulating behaviors that have rightfully earned cops the title of "bastards." Harassing someone until they give you the answer you want? That's bastard cop behavior. Espousing a belief such as "if you've got nothing to hide, why would you run?" is bastard cop behavior. So often police will react to refusals to let them search a car or home without a warrant with, "if you have nothing to hide, why are you scared?" They'll say that someone wanting to leave a traffic stop is probable cause to search their car. And look at what Silver is doing while he's espousing bastard cop ideology: he's using his telekinesis to surround Duo with furniture so that he can't escape. And again, at this point in time, Silver has NO EVIDENCE that Duo is Mimic. As far as anyone in the comic knows, it is entirely possible that Duo was an innocent fellow kid. And this is how he's being treated?

Essentially what is opposed in this scene are two conflicting ideologies: Whisper and Silver believe that Duo is guilty until proven innocent, and Lanolin believes that Duo is innocent until proven guilty. And unless a person is truly unhinged, Lanolin is the one they should agree with. And I think that, if you ask most people, they would say that they do believe people are innocent until proven guilty. The problem is, not only are they not demonstrating that in this fandom discussion, but we saw with Luigi Mangione how the majority of people believe that arrest = guilt. There is absolutely no proof that Luigi Mangione was the claims adjuster, but everyone just assumed he was because he was arrested. And similarly, people think that Whisper and Silver were in the right here, when Lanolin was the one who felt proof was necessary to determine someone's guilt.

And listen: I can already hear the arguments of, "Well, we're on Whisper and Silver's side because KNOW they were right!" Here's the problem with that: their methods were fucked. Whisper, especially, was absolutely unhinged with how she put hands on Lanolin and then continued attacking her after Lanolin said they should talk things out. It shouldn't be surprising that she screamed at and threatened an innocent family in Issue #75, considering how she reacted toward her own teammate here.

So what mistake did Lanolin make? It can't be believing Mimic, because everyone else also did that. And I really don't think we should say that her insisting on proof before deciding someone was guilty was a mistake either, because that's what you should do. That's basic decency.

The only other thing she could feasibly apologize for was being "too scawy" for Tangle and Whisper to talk to about the Sonic = Phantom Rider situation, but I call bullshit on that also. Whisper had absolutely no right whatsoever to feel trepidation about Lanolin, considering she attacked Lanolin in the issue where Silver got himself kicked off the team. And Tangle expressing to her would-be murderer girlfriend that she finds Lanolin too scawy to talk to is also a major cop-out. Tangle didn't even try, even after Whisper's mask had recorded proof. So I simply don't buy that, either. Nor do I appreciate Tangle's OoC snark toward Lanolin in #76, either, and fully believe that both that and Lanolin's prostrating herself was only done to appease the vocal haters in the fandom.

As for Mimic, Ian Flynn stated on a past Bumblekast that the only way for Mimic to die that would be narratively satisfying would be by Whisper's hand. She has to be the one to do it. Not only is he her nemesis, but he has committed so many acts of cruelty against her that she has earned it. It has to be her.

However, he also said in the same answer that they can't show that, because it's a kid's comic. It's also difficult because Whisper can't commit murder and still be a heroic character. (This is likely why her previous attempts have failed, either through being talked down -- Tangle and Mimic, Cream and Eggman -- or being in a position where she deals a killing blow but it doesn't stick, i.e. shooting Eggman through the heart in the Urban Warfare arc, but it not sticking because she was in eeby deeby.) Although, to be completely honest, Mimic is heinous enough that I think she could still be at the very least anti-heroic. After all, if Erazor Djinn can be killed in Secret Rings without Sonic being treated as a villain, then surely Whisper killing Mimic wouldn't completely ruin her, either.

So if Mimic gets killed, it will be by Whisper's hand. However, being a kid's comic, it'll probably be off-page. So if my theory that Silver would restrain Tangle for Whisper is true, then we'd see Silver restraining Tangle while Whisper goes off-page, Silver and Tangle arguing as she tries to break free of his telekinesis, a sound effect, and then Whisper returning to the scene, with silent confirmation that Mimic is no more. We'd never see the body, there wouldn't be any blood, but we'd get the confirmation. Then we could have the fallout from there.

[dropletr]

SONIC HEADCANON:

Dr. Starline and Mimic the Octopus used to be in the same theatre troup.

[tdtd-au]

Sonic. Have you ever regret not ending Eggman? It's getting worst with every fight. I understand that you don't want to kill him and your belief of chances and freedom, but many peoples lives are either killed (OG Diamond Cutters), misery (Kit, Surge), missing (Freedom Fighters), or ended up being villains (Mimic, Infinite, Starline). Sure there some good like how he created Omega, Gemerl, Belle, and even Sage, how you met Nine from the Paradox Prism, Knuckles when he was tricked, and so on but Eggman's actions kept piling up that Espio is now imprison in the same place you were back then. I don't blame you but I think you should reconsider about how you'll deal with Eggman soon or at least have anyone kill Eggman in your behalf. Whisper, Espio, and Shadow wouldn't mind doing for you.

[sonic-hot-takes]

New Sonic media needs to introduce more heroic male characters to the lineup.

Normally I like my takes quick and spicy and let people come to their own conclusions with them, but out of all my thoughts on the series that I’ve shared with fellow Sonic fans, this one tends to get the most ire. Bellow the cut are my more in depth thoughts on the matter.

I may be forgetting someone but I’m pretty sure the last character the series introduced that was simultaneously a guy, a hero, and had any sort of staying power was Silver all the way back in TWO THOUSAND SIX. This applies to ALL Sonic media/canon, by the way (be it the games, comics, spin offs like Boom, etc.)

The closest character I could think of that fills this criteria is Razor from the post-reboot Archie comics—he did appear in both the main comic and Sonic Universe, and was the only new character to get his own SCO backstory—but for obvious reasons he’s not showing up again any time soon. I don’t count Chip or Yacker since they’re pretty blatantly meant to be one off characters that fill a specific niche for that game’s plot. Also let’s be real they’re both mid as hell

Compare this to the girls: Sticks, Tangle, Whisper, Sage (who is framed as more of an antihero in Frontiers than a villain), Trip, this new girl from Dream Team…

People scream sexist at me whenever I bring this up, which is ironic because I am a Girl™ myself. My favorite Sonic character, Blaze, is a Girl™. Sticks is one of my favorite additions to the series in a long time, and she’s a Girl™. I’m not against Girl™ in Sonic.

BUT it does make me raise a brow looking at the track record of new characters that have been introduced to the series, specifically when it comes to gender and morality alignment. This is a lot more prevalent in the IDW comics than in the games, but it’s present in both.

Since Colors (which signaled a shift in direction in the series), the new antagonists we’ve gotten in the games are: Orbot and Cubot, the mostly male Deadly Six, the Hardboiled Heavies (if you wanna count them), Infinite, and Sage (kind of). In the IDW comics, we’ve gotten Rough and Tumble, Dr. Starline, Mimic, Clutch, Kit, and Surge.

In the same time period, the new leading/supporting protagonists we’ve gotten in the games are Yacker, the Forces OC, Sage (kind of), Trip, and Ariem (the new girl from Dream Team). You can also squeeze Sticks in here since she’s the only Boom character to get any extra relevance or spotlight on her outside of that spin off. In the IDW comics, we’ve gotten Tangle, Whisper, Jewel, Belle, and Lanolin.

Sure, there’s a little overlap here and there. But you should notice a pattern.

Do not interpret this as me saying that Sonic Team or the writers at IDW have some kind of anti-men agenda going on. That’s not what I’m suggesting. BUT I am getting tired of every new hero being a girl and just about every new villain being a boy. Can’t we switch it up a little?

Even the most prominent female antagonists in the series have some kind of sympathetic edge to them. Surge was brainwashed and experimented on by Starline. Sage’s character arc is supposed to be the focal point of Frontiers, and she only does evil things under Eggman’s command. Trip isn’t even evil in the first place, she just ends up working with Eggman and Fang for…reasons, and ultimately turns against them and becomes a playable hero. They’re not framed the same way that most, if not all of the male villains are. Not even Merlina is fully immune of this.

Outside of the sexist allegations, I usually get one of two responses whenever I bring this up:

A lot of Sonic fans are girls, so the series should introduce more female characters in order to appeal to their female fans.

The series already has a lot of male characters, so they need to balance out the cast with more girls.

Both of these points have their merits and flaws. I think that both of them are/were true up to a certain point, but nowadays they don’t hold up as well after we HAVE gotten tons of new female characters. When Sticks and Tangle were first shown off, I was ecstatic! Sticks being a fourth wall breaking conspiracy theorist is both tons of fun and a character archetype that the series hadn’t explored until then, and Tangle has one of my favorite designs of any Sonic character. But at some point, I started to notice the trend of every new hero being a girl and every new villain being a boy, and it really started to bother me. For IDW Sonic it was around the time Belle and Clutch were introduced (with Lanolin ultimately being the straw that broke the camel’s back—she insists upon herself), and for the games it was after seeing Ariem in Dream Team (I probably would’ve been more annoyed by the Fang/Trip dichotomy if I wasn’t absolutely joyous that the Nack Is Baaaaack). The whole “we need to introduce more girls to the series” angle doesn’t hold up as well when the series seems reluctant to commit to a straight up evil girl. Sonic desperately needs to flesh out his rouges gallery in the games, so why not add an absolutely psycho female antagonist?

Also this is a more personal note but I hate hate HATE it when people allege that girls can’t relate to male characters, so franchises need to introduce the Girl™ character so the Girls™ can relate to her. Can girls not relate to boys? Can boys not relate to girls? Once again, not against female characters in general, but that particular mindset has and will always bother me.

Who knows, maybe Ariem will end up being the main villain of Dream Team. It’d be cool, but I don’t see Sonic Team taking that route, especially not on an Apple Arcade exclusive. I don’t expect any big twists in that game.

Those are my two cents. I just think it’d be cool if we got a new boy as well as all the new girls we’ve been getting.

[jade-branch-qa]

To everyone. yes everyone on the list:

If you needed to time travel and weren't given an option not to, when would you go to ? ;p

and killing the person forcing you to time travel is not an option either

Everyone was gathered in Surge's living room aside from Sonic who took the question from Tail's house to avoid upsetting Surge.

"I'd go back in time to kill Starline during my fight with Sonic." Surge said without hesitation. "It's not fair that Eggnerd got the honour. He was mine."

"Why not earlier? Save yourself from-" Tails asked, only to be interrupted by the tenrec.

"Because if I did... I wouldn't have met Jewel and Kit."

Jewel and Kit smiled at that before it was Tail's turn to speak.

"I would've transitioned earlier. It's probably my biggest regret." she hummed. "Go back to when I met Sonic and convince myself so I could be happy."

"I would have gone back to the day I met Mimic...and kill him." Whisper snarled, her volume surprising everyone but Lanolin just nodded.

"If I knew when, I would join you."

"And I'd have to go to stop you." Tangle sighed before holding up her hands in surrender as wolf and sheep alike stared angrily at her. "To put him in jail, for life!"

"I don't know..." Jewel sighed. "There's so much I wish I could do differently...maybe convince myself to not trust Clutch? Be there for Surge and Kit earlier? It's difficult to pick just one."

"Drown Starline the moment he was born." Kitsunami muttered, earning shocked looks from everyone in the room. "What?"

"But...then I wouldn't..." Surge tried.

"You wouldn't have been tortured, brainwashed and made to hurt people." the kit said as he folded his arms. "You wouldn't miss me since you never knew me."

"Kit, please don't do that if you ever get a time machine!" Surge pleaded and he was shocked at her response to his answer to a purely hypothetical question. "Please!"

"Fine..." Kit grumbled. "But that's still my answer."

Sang-mi just stared at the two siblings before sighing.

"I'd rather not say..." she said, refusing to meet Surge's eyes but Kit knew that she was thinking the same thing he was. It did hurt a bit but he knew where she was coming from.

Sonic for his part sat in Tail's kitchen and just shrugged as if it was the most obvious thing in the world.

"Get my younger self to help Tails figure out who she is sooner. She's so much happier now."

[totaleclipse573]

can I hear more about Shadow and Eclipse/Sonic and Tails swap au?

It’s still pretty new, but I can tell you my thoughts right now!

So basically, Shadow and Eclipse are the brothers who generally get along well and, GASP! THEY KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE IN A HEALTHY MANNER?? I haven’t decided yet whether or not I keep them as part of the black arms, or if I give those traits to sonic and tails. Because if they stay black arms, then eclipse still looks very alien. If not? Then I might turn him into a lizard or something idk XD

Tails was made to counter Sonic. (All of their names are still the same, by the way! To avoid confusion) Why is he a fox? No clue but the two tails were definitely on purpose. They’re pretty complicated, to say the least.

Amy is swapped with Rouge. So Amy becomes the treasure hunter/thief and Rouge becomes the peppy and uplifting one. Starline and Eggman are swapped too, for reasons I think you can guess. Who has the warp topaz is also something I’m trying to figure out. It’s an au, so not everything has to be the same as canon, but it’s a SWAP au, so DOES Eggman have the topaz now? I’m not sure, but probably 😅

Silver and Blaze might swap too. And also maybe Surge/Kit, Tangle/Jewel, and Whisper with Mimic? These could change though.

Whether or not I swap doom with someone is also something I’m considering. I have options, though. And do I use doom or doleon? Is Terios even in this? That could complicate things, unless I find a way for it not to? Like I said, the au is still pretty new and highly in development. But I’m open to any suggestions or ideas! I love the concept so far.

[randomthefox]

I got an idea. Why not just show that Clutch is menacing. Come on.

You're right about Surge killing him on the spot, and this can be EASILY fixed.

Let Surge attack him, but he COUNTERS her. ( Maybe he uses a device or something ) and he barely has to move for this. He not only blocks their attacks, he STUNS them. He wants Surge to become one of his 'allies' and offers her a clue to her past. ( a real one, not just a red herring. this will become important later on when the characters will search for their identity )

Surge will have no choice but to obey him, despite the fact that she hates it. Her reason to want to become a hero should've been that the others are there for her, and will support her like friends. She wants to ditch Clutch because of it, but we see that this green possum is ALWAYS one step ahead, and basically makes no room for escape.

Just give this guy SOMETHING that makes him a threat. Give him SOME KIND of skill that allows him to block any attacks of the main cast. FUCKING. SOMETHING. THEN he become menacing.

He should portray power like a real godfather, having spies, minions, etc. But we never get to SEE THAT.

This is BASIC.

Why do these writers suck so hard!?

I actually think Clutch would be a lot more interesting if he WASN'T menacing. If he was just a street level crime boss, and he regarded the Sonic cast as the cosmic level god slayers that they are. But this comic is literally predicated on the foundation of "the Sonic video games and everything from them are bad" so obviously Stanley is not going to have her OC treat the Sonic cast as horrifying threats that he wants to avoid as an ant trying to crawl beneath the notice of an elephant.

Honestly I'll make it even easier for you: just don't ever show Clutch and Surge in the same room together. At all. They'd already established that Mimic is being used as a middle man to relay orders to Surge and Kit. So just do that. (Why the fuck are Surge and Kit able to just galavant up to Clutch's airship? Especially since they're supposed to be undercover as members of the Restoration, who are being barred from entry by his security? Did the possibility that Jewel, the leader of the Restoration, might run into Surge and Kit on the airship not occur to him? Is he stupid?)

Just have Clutch have all his meetings using Mimic as the go between, or over some kind of video call. So that way Surge literally CAN'T even TRY to kill Clutch even if she wanted to, and his threats of social leverage against her would have actual weight because no matter what she wants to do he can press a button on his desk faster than she can do ANYTHING to try and stop him. Why is he taking the risk of being anywhere NEAR this emotionally unstable nuclear bomb of a science experiment especially since he is personally responsible for Starline creating them in the first place.

Stanley is too far up her own ass to even consider that though, because Clutch is her character so obviously she's going to write him as being able to kow Flynns character into submission because he's just SOOOO COOL AND SCARY no matter how fucking idiotic and nonsensical it is. Again, I posit: Clutch would be far more interesting if he was presented as an underdog villain who was completely outclassed by the main characters AND WAS AWARE OF IT. Instead of Stanley trying to pass him off as her own personal Thanos.

[yeets-ix]

Sonic Bad Guys AU Infodumping

@thefakehedgehogaroundhere pitched the AU and its roles, I went too far and fleshed it out a LOT.

Here's the first round, the basics of the characters:

The Bad Guys go by “Ms. Surge,” Ms. Metal, Mr. Rough, Mr. Tumble, Mr. Duo and Mr. Kitsunami (for fun.)

Backstory: While the AU is mostly just the self-contained plot of the movie, Eggman and Starline did exist in the AU… emphasis on DID. In a very very deliberately loose interpretation of Sonic canon setting up this AU, they created Surge, Kit and Metal, but were ultimately defeated for good, with their former creations and minions being left to form various random organizations including the Bad Guys, none of whom are nearly as much of a threat anymore. Sonic took all the credit for “beating” Eggman, though it probably wasn’t actually him in this AU considering this version of him is also a villain and has just been using his hero image for personal gain (hell, considering his Marmalade-assigned wealth, he probably bought out Eggman Industries after the Doctor was gone.)

Ms. Surge, instead of the “big bad wolf,” boasts about being an “evil twin.” A twisted and evil counterpart to a hero. Of course, she turns out to actually be the good one between herself and Sonic in this AU, but that’s beside the point. She still doesn’t remember her original life and has only experienced being compared to Sonic and seen as a monstrous, evil version of him, never being given any other chance. When Sonic gets exposed as the criminal he is and arrested, Surge, Kit and Metal recognize they’re fully free and able to go good, what with him being put away for good.

Ms. Metal was also originally designed after Sonic (that’s why she and Surge are best friends,) but being “the safe-cracker,” has modified herself with some help from Kit into a heist-focused robot with stealth tech, safe-cracking tools, and the ability to turn into a hyper-boost engine for the getaway car. She’s the “most evil” because she’s still programmed to defeat Sonic, even if she’s currently spending almost all of her time pulling heists with the Bad Guys. She comes around in the end and rejoins Surge and the gang, and stays with her as a good guy after finally taking down Sonic. She’s also kind of addicted to absorbing Wisps.

Mr. Mimic actually goes by Mr. Duo most of the time - he’s made the happy-go-lucky but still evil cat his public identity they think of when they hear the term “Bad Guys.” After genuinely befriending the others, he wants to move on from and forget the even worse crimes he committed as an octopus (even though not necessarily those of his canon self.) That being said, he’s still a shapeshifter and “the distraction.” Instead of Mr. Shark swallowing Mr. Snake when he annoys him, Duo can mess with Metal’s circuits since he’s “good with computers.”

Mr. Rough and Mr. Tumble are the flattest ones, but then again, they always are. They beat the shit out of people, make immature jokes, and Rough uncontrollably sprays when he’s nervous. Mr. Piranha is perfect for both of them (and also for Surge - she’d release catastrophic EMPs - if she wasn’t Mr. Wolf here.)

Mr. Kit is “Drippy” the same way Ms. Tarantula is “Webs.” His laptop has extra monitors and keyboards for his Hydro-Coils the same way as Webs’ does for her eight legs. He’s also still Surge’s younger brother for the feels. Owing to being around 13, he's less anxious and less formal, and with the world aware of his power, more confident in being scary on his own or at his sister's side.

Governor Rose’s backstory as the Crimson Paw Rascal is changed a bit. She, too, gave up just as she was about to steal the Awardy Award (the Golden Dolphin equivalent,) but it was because she realized she’d built her criminal career upon being a “sweet widdle hoggo” who nobody would suspect or believe could be a criminal mastermind, instead blaming more scary or ugly animals. Realizing that not only would some undeserving creature take the fall for the Rascal’s ultimate heist, but she fully knew and wanted to exploit this, just made Amy feel like shit, and she immediately hung up her cowl. Note that this same reason also leads to her despising Sonic for working under the same ideals, and makes her very happy when he’s the one who takes the fall for her crimes in the end.

“A wolf and a fox are not so different” becomes “A tenrec is just a false hedgehog.” Sonic later reuses this line to mock Surge, before Surge and Amy finally wreck him with it in the end.

Sonic as Marmalade? Take every bad take on IDW Sonic in the entire hatedom, make them completely true, and then sprinkle the resulting abomination of a Sonic with Scourge dust. He’s supposedly the same hero as his canon self, but in truth all he cares about is his own entertainment and his own reputation. Lying and manipulating people are what give him “the tingle.” He’s gonna scream “LET’S DO IT TO IT! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!” like in that one satire comic as he’s dragged off to S.U.C.M., utterly determined to the end to convince everyone he’s never done anything wrong in his life. Fuck him. He deserves nothing, he is the scum of the earth, I want to punch him in the face, and maybe call in a few other AU Sonics to punch him in the face too.

Heck, I have an OC named Shine who is basically “Sonic but Marmalade” already, and I’d be willing to donate her for this role if I didn’t want Sonic himself to get to chew some scenery.

We’ve agreed Whisper is Chief Luggins due to her power to be incredibly biased against these people, especially Surge with a good helping of Mimic on the side. Lanolin would work too, but I think Whisper being really angry a lot fits better. You poor wolf, you poor meow meow, you poor thing, how did you end up becoming a cop?... or she's just the face of what's left of the Restoration in this universe. Lanolin can probably be Tiffany the reporter, IDK.

To be continued.

[skaruresonic]

Okay, no, Screenrant is on something. The whole point of Clutch is that he's just guy who makes his dirty dealings just beneath notice while having various fronts. Like, the one thing they got right is that he's subtle, which by definition says that Eggman is a massive power player. How do you completely miss that point?

You didn't need to send the same message twice. I was taking a Netflix break.

First off, the article did not imply "Eggman is a massive power player" at all.

Here is the article in its entirety. Note how many times Clutch is portrayed as having more "destructive" potential than Eggman:

This article reads like nonsense in hindsight now that we know Clutch has been exposed via the exact same means Eggman was one-upped by Starline in Imposter Syndrome: via flash drive.

And now that he has no more cards to play, he's going to try and take everyone out with him. Something that, need I remind you, Eggman has also done, so he is definitely not unique in that regard.

What a much more subtle villain Clutch is than Eggman when he does the exact same shit as Eggman. Not to mention, how can his schemes "dwarf" Eggman's when they don't achieve any real degree of success?

We're told that Clean Sweep poisoned the land, water, and air... which is just an average Tuesday for Eggman.

So something that people complained about in Forces (telling us about the villain's impact via exposition rather than showing us) happens again in IDW. We're just supposed to take the book's word for it, even consider Clutch's impact worse than Eggman's impact in the games, because... ?

Even putting aside the article's denigration of Eggman's villainy - Eggman can and has plotted against Sonic and co. before; the book forced him to take a hit to his IQ and suddenly turn a blind eye to a problem in order to facilitate Starline's pedestal break - everything Clutch has done has come unraveled just as quickly. He's bested not by Sonic and co., but by OCs Jewel and Nite. His reputation got nuked in one fell swoop.

The narrative considers Clutch a Machiavellian villain until it suddenly needs him to turn into a scrub, lest we actually need to rub some fucking brain cells together to come up with a way for Sonic and co. to win on their own merits without the hand of the author orchestrating victory for them.

My dude goes from threatening to make Sonic eat his own quills in one issue to tripping over somebody's leg Surge-style the next:

...According to the logic that contends that Eggman is not a "real" threat because he usually meets defeat in the end, Clutch should similarly be considered a scrub now that he has no more power over people except to take them out with him in a desperate kamikaze.

Surge? He kept her in line with vague threats for a while, but she never actually did anything to further his goals. She decided to go along with Kit's plan instead:

Likewise for Mimic.