#season 3 elmike were only separated romantically | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

emblazons · 1 year

Note

hi marie, its me again <3 the anon with byler doubt haha ... you made such great points! and tysm for such a thorough response.

I am SO CURIOUS how do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? I think that's the aspect that has me doubting the most because it feels so so MESSY and they can very easily mess it all up if they aren't careful.

Explaining Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season, on top of everything else going on as well with the world literally ending. I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true, what do you think they were trying to achieve with that?

Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? And if the answer is yes, how will that affect Mike and El's dynamic going forward, you think? Will they really not only break up milkvan, but leave elmike underdeveloped in favor of Byler?

I look at the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. Because if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El.

I suppose something else that gives me doubt is how Mike and Will have been sidelined in these last few seasons to give more screentime/protagonism to other characters and dynamics, so I don't know if I can fully believe the Duffers care THAT much about romantic!Byler if that makes sense.

Hopefully this all doesn't sound overly pessimistic or something, I am genuinely curious about your thoughts in some of these more like looking for reassurance tbh! Especially after reading your response to my first ask <3 TYSM once again!!

hello again!

To be honest, you've got a lot of questions that require separate (and equally detailed) responses, but...let me see if I can briefly explain each, and maybe link to other analyses I've done that might help make sense of why I say.

note: some of these are just my frankest opinions unfiltered, but I do have analytical reasons for all of them. Your questions are also asking things it's taken several rewatches and a year to sort through so...apologies if you just get the simplest version of the idea delineated here haha. also, a cut, because this got really long.

1: How do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? Transparently? I'm not really all that into specifics, because expecting specific things means I'm going to fall into the trap of thinking I'm the one writing it when I'm not and then say The Duffers "lied" or "messed up" because I expected something they never put in there. That said—in terms of plain setup, they will need to address the painting because that was a critical plot point from damn near minute one of S4, and now it's become fully integrated with not only Will's feelings for Mike, but Mike's own sense of El's feelings for him.

Beyond that...I think El will need to be the one to initiate the "complete" breakup, because she's the one who wanted space in the first place, the one who is repeatedly having her romantic partner paralleled to parental and tragic figures, the one refuses to be vulnerable & who built lies into their relationship...and the one whose general arc centers around reclaiming autonomy and choice from the men in her life. I also think Mike will be the one to initiate the romantic aspect, if its not a bit mutual.

2: Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season - I disagree. We managed to sort through introducing Will's romantic feelings and sense of his queerness in a single season just fine...and Mike has had queer-coding show up throughout every season if you know what you're looking for.

The fact that this boy already has a one way sign into his closet, has repeatedly yelled about "boys only" every season AND shows clear signs of male attraction already has most people (even the supposed 'GA') suspicious of his sexuality, and combined with his devotion to will + the wider context, there are plenty of ways to introduce the idea of him liking boys explicitly that don't require any intense delineation...unless you expect them to say "he's gay" out loud, which they didn't do when Robin came out, and still haven't done for Will either...despite everyone knowing damn well they're gay.

3: I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true - I think that most of the breakdowns I've done of parentified!mike make clear that the love he has for her is somewhat genuine...though its being written as misplaced familial love, because he spent so much time believing he needed "a girl" to assuage his insecurities.

While I absolutely lean toward a gay!Mike reading myself, it's still clear even without a label that Mike's love mirrors Hopper's more than it resembles any of the love given by potential romantic partners to other women across the show—and Mike, given that he was being told by Will that El needed him to say he loved her for her to win, did what he thought was necessary to help her.

I do not think his love for her is a lie—I simply think it isn't romantic, and has now been so conflated with something negative in El's mind that it wouldn't matter if he mean't it romantically anyway. That said: narratively, Mike had to say he loved El because unless the fullness of what was expected (an I love you) was accomplished, it would hang over the story and any relationship Byler might have. El needed to hear it...so she could reject it, which she did.

4: Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? yes. I think El will be absolutely 300000% just fine being broken up with Mike lmao. She has Hopper back now (who she was mourning the loss of, and therefore looking to fill with Mike emotionally), on top of having Max's "there's more to life than stupid boys" at the fore of her mind saving her.

Mike is also paralleled to parental and abusive figures in El's mind, on top of the fact that she has been keeping him at an emotional distance for the entirety of S4. Given that she and Lucas will probably also get closer in the search for Max...I'm quite sure she's not going to take it as hard as people imagine, especially given the fact that we already know she was happiest in S3 when they were broken up.

I also don't have any expectation of ElMike being super close friends (beyond party bonds + civility) either, which...I mean if you are I apologize but. I don't see that happening in canon, so them being developed deeply as friends before the show ends is not important to me as a plot point, and doesn't really have any canonical backing considering their ongoing lack of platonic connection outside of the necessary + lack of common interest. That's even a note thematically in the show...which means its makes sense for them not to be that close by the end of the narrative.

5: Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. Truth be told, that love triangle has a resolution—Nancy has chosen Jonathan, and continues to, even though she flirted with Steve when she felt lonely. Nancy's arc has always centered around choosing something different than her parents and has from S1—her brief flirtation with Steve aside, her loyalty to Jonathan hasn't changed, though they are absolutely not a perfect couple.

If anything, the end of S4 set up Jonathan and Steve learning to be friends less so than anything implying Nancy might choose Steve instead—Jonathan is finally in a narrative position to choose something for himself now which frees him up to be honest with Nancy, and even outside of that, Nancy is far more likely to end up with single than she is with Steve—which is the exact opposite of how they've set up Mike to be with Will rather than El over the course of the season.

6: I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. I don't agree. The supernatual plot has always been well-integrated with the romantic elements in every couple across the board, from Mike's "first love lost" energy happening when El disappeared in S1, Lumax bonding in S2 in a fight with demodogs, Jancy's bonding across S2-3 happening in the lab seeing the gate, while Will was un-possessed, and while they fought the thing monster in the hospital....and Jopper in Russia fighting a demogorgon in S4.

The Duffers have never slacked in setting up their romances in conjunction with the supernatual plots, and there's no reason to think they're gonna start with Byler, especially given Will's mirroring of Vecna/Henry, the way the day his disappeared is the day the UD is frozen, and how he's the one who can sense him...while now having Mike glued to his side.

7: if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El. The 5th season is going to bring all of the characters together again, and they've already said Will is central to that. I've written before about the reason why they had to sideline Will in their plot to make a narrative point, but regardless...like I said before, if you know how to read subtext, Mike being queer won't come as all that much of a surprise.

Note: I've done several (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) analyses on Mike and his arc, which might help.

Beyond that...again, I honestly don't think The Duffers care much to make ElMike besties like fanon seems to think they should be (they haven't done it with any of the other romantic couples they've broken up) so...closure can include civility and acceptance for them the way it did S2 Steve with Jancy, imo. What Mike needs most is to gain the courage to accept himself and realize he doesn't need a girl to assuage his insecurities—and him being casual friends with El the same way he is casually supportive canonically with Max makes more sense than trying to skirt over all the mess of their relationship for the sake of an attached fandom ☠️

—that was a lot to cover, but hopefully that cleared up my position on a lot of your questions? I would also encourage you to take a look at my ST commentary tag & analyses highlights list (soon to be updated again) and even my asks for more context, on top of maybe giving the show a rewatch in its entirety if you can.

Sidebar: I also encourage you to dig into my Duffer Brothers tag and commentary (see bottom of the page), because knowing who made the show is just as helpful as understanding the show itself.

Its really easy to get caught in other people's wants and headcanons for the show if you don't keep going back to it yourself, so—as lovingly as possible, I really do encourage you to just sit and watch it with the "byler knowledge" you have from users like me, your other fave analysts, and maybe some of the "old guard" like @kaypeace21, who was integral in my own development of opinions before I dug in for myself. If you're ever doubting, that's always your best bet.

That said: It's literally impossible to summarize a framework crossing nearly 37 hours of TV in a single ask (or even 20)...which is why I've got almost a year worth of posts about it (and have evolved my depth of understanding dramatically over time).

The same way you can't spark notes your way through a degree without missing a lot of context, even me saying this with evidence won't help a lot if you haven't dug into it yourself—and doubt will repeatedly creep in if you're trusting me over the show itself, even though the show is where I've pulled all this from lmao.

—this got really long, but....I hope it helped. And again, sorry if I seemed short anywhere lmao. This was a lot to cover. Still, as always, thanks for the ask!

#this got so long lmfaooo #and I'm sorry if I answered bluntly anywhere in my trying to get through all your questions lmao #but also...like. I don't have doubts about the duffers ability or the story direction because I've spent a lot of time with the show #not just with the fandom or scenepacks. Like. all 37 hours of this thing LMFAO #and honestly...that is the only way to truly get a sense of it as a whole entity. It literally exists as a whole unit #we're just waiting on the last piece!#asks

17 notes · View notes

gayofthefae · 4 months

Text

Thinking about how the pairs that fight, or don't fight, monsters together confirms who will be endgame. To clarify, you can be in the same setting a plot without being "paired off" and this happens consistently.

Mike didn't spend season 4 with El, he spent it with Will. Mike didn't spend season 3 with El, he spent it with the group. Mike didn't spend season 2 with El, he spent it with Will. He only spent season 1 with her.

Nancy didn't spend season 4 with Steve, she spent it with Robin. Nancy didn't spend seasons 1-3 with Steve, she spent them with Jonathan.

Max spent seasons 2 and 4 with Lucas, Jopper spent seasons 1 2 and 3 together and 4 focused on each other, to add a few as well.

The closest exceptions are Joyce with Bob and Steve with Robin but their time was still pretty evenly split between Hopper and Dustin and those were two couples you were meant to root for anyways to evoke the proper reaction at the end.

We see multiple couples, most notably Elmike and St*ncy, have moments together sometimes even in the same plot and group, but still be grouped with someone else. In season 4, Nancy is explicitly paired with Robin, even showing a scene of them picking partners. In season 3, El is repeatedly blocked separately from the group with Mike blocked with the group (specifically paired with Will). Do they have moments where they flirt and support each other's monster-fighting? Yes! Do they brainstorm solutions to the season plot together, one on one? No. Everyone else does. Everyone else.

It's even a very clear point of early season 2 that Nancy is able to work well with Jonathan on this part of life and not Steve, so they are not shy about the fact that they consistently say "fighting monsters together = romance" (when appropriate) and that has consistently been a received message. So it should be applied in the reverse as well: couples who do not fight monsters together are not romantic or endgame.

They want their romantic moments to bloom naturally from time spent together anyways, not to have to go out of their way to put them together for a single moment only to separate them again as soon as it's done - which is what they do do for strategic couples.

The message this sends is one of romance without friendship. They are only together for moments of romance.

(yet another reason I'm excited for platonic Elmike: they spent time together when they were friends in season 1. And in season 3, the main point was always that Mike saw her as his girlfriend instead of El, looking for a universal rule instead of going off of his knowledge of her)

#byler parallels #stranger things #byler #anti milkvan #anti stancy #elmike stancy parallels #the duffer brothers #themes #endgame couples

20 notes · View notes