#sky and riven both had a Lot of internal issues and they were taking it out on each other

[floralovebot]

I think Riven was poor in the show... I think Riven hated Sky for being a prince too. They're fighting was because of that too. Are you saying that Riven did not hate Sky because he is a prince? Riven said a lot that he did not like Sky because he is rich and rich people are unfair. Please share your thoughts for me.

I'm pretty sure this is in response to this post? But let me know if not!

Anyway, Riven coming from a poor or even "middle class" background isn't canon, it's just a really good headcanon. I say it's a headcanon because when it comes up, it's always a vague implication that could also be about something else. Like his mother abandoning him could definitely have led to him growing up poor, but it's also not an exact confirmation. His mother leaving for money could mean they were poor, but it could also mean she just wanted More Money. Darcy saying he has "a darkness inside him" is likely about mental illness and trauma rather than him being poor and taking it out on the others (also anyone who uses this as an example just know i am beam blasting your house so hard). Riven calling out nepotism and classism could definitely be more personal but it could also be an example of his very high morality and moral judgment. (like riven is extremely intelligent and stands up for people in less fortunate situations a lot.)

Like,,, it's never directly stated that he's poor and the implications that people usually see could very easily be about something else. Kind of like the headcanon that Helia grew up at RF or comes from a military family; lots of good implications, but not canon. Or s1 implying that Flora could be a lesbian or wlw; lots of implications, but not canon. On the flip side, there are tons of things about Riven that are directly stated or directly implied (like his trust issues, issues with administration, his mental health issues, and even his mother leaving him). But Riven coming from a specifically poor background is something that's more often than not just an implication that could be implying something else. I'm not saying that implication isn't there at all, but it can definitely be read in other ways (for example, I've seen people headcanon that Riven comes from a noble family and hates classism because he's seen it up close). But regardless, Riven being poor is just an implication because it's not stated or shown in canon.

Also, I should note that my post wasn't about shitting on this headcanon. I like the idea that Riven comes from a poor background. It makes sense within canon, I do think it's implied (even some of the weaker implications are still fun to me), and I often use it in other headcanons and aus. But again, it's not Canon and his rivalry with Sky and the other specialists had a lot of components that aren't related to classism. My post was specifically about how the Sky vs Riven rivalry wasn't just about classism. Riven absolutely does not like royalty or the idea of different classes in general. However, his rivalry with Sky was never just about Sky being a prince.

Riven calls Sky out for having advantages over them, yes. Riven calls out the other characters for not knowing something, for being privileged, for nepotism, etc, yes. But his dislike of Sky specifically didn't stem from classism. Like I said in that post, classism was absolutely a factor but it wasn't the Biggest Factor.

Riven had a lot of internal issues in s1 and all of them played a factor in his rivalry with Sky. Sky being a prince was the icing on top. It really cemented everything that Riven thought of Sky before, but it was never the First Reason, the Big Reason, or the Only Reason. Riven didn't like the specialists because they were constantly undermining him, constantly insulting him (sometimes in a direct insulting way and sometimes in a "playful/joking" way), always assuming the worst of him, and never taking his side in literally anything. He also has extreme trust issues, felt like he would be better off alone, and used everything they said and did as a confirmation of why. Like s1 Riven had a really bad case of confirmation bias and was constantly looking for reasons to hate them (Sky being a prince was One of those reasons).

Like I said in that post, the Riven vs Sky rivalry had a lot of depth and both parties played into it. In canon, it was never just Poor Boy Hate Rich Boy. Sky being a prince and therefore having a lot of privilege was absolutely a factor in Riven's dislike of him, but it was never the only thing or the biggest reason. If Sky hadn't been the prince, Riven still would've hated him. Like,, that's important! Riven didn't hate Sky Just because he's a prince. He didn't trust Sky, hated that Sky looked down on him (regardless of their class standing), and hated that Sky "saw better in him". He hated that they were both extremely stubborn, irrational pricks who took it out on each other. He hated that Sky clearly didn't like, trust, or respect him.

And again, I really do think his relationships with the other royal and/or rich characters back this up. If Riven hated Sky simply for being a prince, that energy would've been directed toward Brandon first and it would also be directed toward Bloom, Stella, and Aisha. But it isn't. In fact, Riven often shows that he respects and likes Aisha! Even when he does call the other royal/rich characters out, it's never with animosity. It's usually in this, "yeah you're rich and dumb and privileged here I'll show you how it's done 🙄" kind of way. With Sky, it's more "i hate you i hate you i hate you i hate myself fuck off i hate you AND you're a prince god could you get any worse???". Yknow?

[floralovebot]

I truly think Sky is more fleshed out than the other Specialists (sans Riven) but people ignore everything about him because he's easy to hate. It's not that Rainbow didn't flesh him out, it's that he's hard to like and it's extremely easy to just dismiss anything that could make him more nuanced and interesting.

And I think the way the fandom talks about him proves that. You have people saying things like, "why didn't he tell his parents or Diaspro that he didn't love her" or "he grew up in a good family and doesn't understand characters like Riven or Musa", but then

Or the idea that Sky doesn't understand his privilege meanwhile his entire first season plot arc was him being hyper-aware of his privilege and using the switch with Brandon to get away from it. Or the idea that Sky doesn't care about Brandon's life by making him a squire despite the fact that it's shown multiple times both in the series and in the comics that his father is the one who hired Brandon and the one who's adamant about Brandon needing to risk his life to protect Sky. Or even the idea that no one ever calls Sky out when almost all of the fights he has with other characters start with them being mad at him and calling him out. Even the idea that Sky's response to Riven saying he had everything handed to him being something along the lines of "I worked for everything" is still misconstrued as him not recognizing his privilege when it was actually him recognizing his privilege will make others underestimate him and taking it out on Riven.

Sky is nuanced, he's just hard to root for. Most people in this fandom can't relate to his struggles (yes, he has internal struggles just like the rest of them), and even the people who can relate to him still find it hard to like him due to every little problem he has. Meanwhile, most of those problems were either resolved or getting resolved by S4 but Nick reset all of their personalities so now we have to sit through the same three issues with him all over again. It's easier for us to say he hasn't learned anything or that people don't call him out enough because we're watching the same problems over and over again. And you'll notice the only people who say the same things about the other characters are the people who really hate those characters (ie. Stella haters using the later seasons as proof for her being a "brat"). The entire mix of Sky being hard to relate to, having a lot of undesirable traits, and the constant resetting of personalities has led a lot of people to think that he's not as fleshed out as the other characters but like,, that isn't true lol. It's as true as saying Riven isn't fleshed out just because he was an asshole and his personality gets reset (which is actually a thing Riven haters would say when he wasn't as popular; "Riven is still being an asshole just like he was in s1, he's not actually interesting you guys are just attracted to abusers", an actual thing I've seen people say).