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lawonderlandwriter · 5 years

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So here is all that has happened and all that I know and all of my thoughts on this intra-ship-tag war. For anyone who cares to read.

I hadn't written a new fic in a while. Not since Season 8 was airing, so I was not really aware of what was going on until one fic in particular where Jon has an abusive past, started getting negative attention. Most people will know which fic I’m talking about (for the purposes of this post, I’ll refer to it as FIC1).

I had come across the fic randomly and skimmed it, deciding it seemed interesting and I would read it fully when I had the chance. Then I saw the hate the fic was getting and I read it fully immediately. I thought the fic was incredibly well written and wasn’t in any way a Jon-hate fic. Some parts of the fic I even was a tiny bit uncomfortable for the way it portrayed Dany, but I was too interested to let those parts get to me and I have since kept up with it and plan to read it until it’s conclusion.

When I saw the hate on FIC1, I posted about it. How I thought the fic didn’t deserve the hate it was getting and how I thought people were casting judgement without really reading it, just commenting based on what they had heard about it and the author.

This got me some hate but I stood by my fellow author.

This was when I first heard of the “Discord” group.

Everything I knew about the discord was hearsay as I am not and have never been involved in it. I heard the discord was all men who stanned Jon Snow and hate-commented on any fic they didn't like and had been policing the tag since basically the S8 finale. As I had seen hate comments on fics with my own eyes, I had no reason to question this.

Especially when fics began showing up in the tag of Dany getting raped in response to each time FIC1 would update. Comments on those fics were sarcastic and crude and supportive. I have never used A03 as a social media platform so I was not and still am not very familiar with usernames.

More accusations flew around that those responsible for these fics and fics that plagairised FIC1 stemmed from the Discord. I had no reason to believe otherwise (but I also had no reason to believe it was all Discord people either which I should not have so readily believed).

More fics were posted by authors I read and respect and more hate was flung around. Again, the Discord was blamed, perhaps* wrongly. My prejudice against this supposed discord group grew.

Then I started writing “Queens Always Have the Last Word” (QAHTLW). At first, the response was positive - everyone seemingly hates Sansa. A few complained I wasn’t changing Jon’s general S8 demeanor which annoyed me. I had made it perfectly clear in the tags that the story would focus on Dany - and I had already written a fic for Jon where he was the star and got the last word. This was her turn.

I did not and still do not consider it a Jon-hate fic or that the fic is an attack on Jon’s character in any way. I kept Jon essentially close to his S8 self but added a bit more to him - additions I thought were positive.

But my fic was somehow labeled “Jon Snow hate.”

Some people in comments on my and other fics have said something about S8 fics being “serious” fics, hence why I guess my QAHTLW was labeled “Jon hate.”

For one, this to me this seemed an incredibly arbitrary rule and it still seems incredibly arbitrary. That S8 fics HAVE to be “serious”. Why is it just S8 fics?

For those wondering, my understanding of a “serious” fic is a fic that HAS to feature Jon and Dany as being 100% equal to each other and the narrative HAS to treat them as 100% equal and be kind to both of them.

If a fic is not considered “serious”, it is okay for Jon and Dany to not be 100% equal or treated equal by the narrative - one example of “non-serious” fics in the Jonerys A03 tag were harem fics.

At least, that’s what I’ve been told by commenters - harem fics are okay to be in the Jonerys tag on A03 (even though they are incredibly unequal in regards of who gets to sleep with who) because apparently “no one takes them seriously.”

This is what I have been told: “No one takes harem fics seriously.”

So, because of this new standard set forth by people who either had been policing the tag, or people trying to explain the motives behind people policing the tag, a line became drawn.

Those of us who don’t write or read harem fics, we (I, rather, but others likely as well) began to see this line as “Jon Snow stans” and “Daenerys stans”. Because it’s highly unlikely many Dany fans would want to read fics where Jon just gets to smash everyone in ASOIAF.

So then I had a pretty damning encounter with someone in the comments of Chapter 4 of QAHTLW. The hate started off right out the gate:

This comment was a lot of things at once. 1) It cemented for me this weird divide between “Tumblr” (“Tumblrinas” as some call us) writers and “others” (I assumed all the “others” were Discord users). 2) It cemented for me that all the “others” were exclusively Jon fans, due to the accusation here that I don’t care about Jon, and 3) it was the first time I had been told to literally stop writing and leave to community.

I reacted immediately. The encounter was petty (yes, I was petty too, fully admit it) and went on for several comments. Then my hate commenter responded with this:

I had seen that “reeeeeeee” before. Just a day before actually, here on Tumblr. It wasn't a post of mine, but a response to one of my mutual’s posts. The person who reblogged with the “reeeeeeeee” comment left a nasty note about Dany going crazy - it was clearly a comment meant to be offensive to Dany stans. I reblogged said post and blocked the user who had made the “reeeeee” comment.

So because my hate commenter on A03 used the same language as the Tumblr reblogger, I called him out on it, thinking I knew who he was. We went back and forth on that for another round of comments, and then he sent me this:

1) The user claims he is not the same person from Tumblr, 2) he admits to being in the “Discord” group, 3) He admits the Tumblr user I had blocked posts things from Tumblr to share with the Discord group for the purposes of making fun of us, and 4) he admits to using a “throwaway” account on A03 in order to avoid being banned by the site, should his comments get reported.

Because of this encounter, I felt I had enough information to pass blanket judgement on the Discord group. To me, because of this person’s comments, the Discord was a place where male Jon Snow fans hung out and talked shit about Dany stans from Tumblr.

And because this person had said things from Tumblr were shared (and laughed at) on the Discord, and because the very next day I posted a link on my Tumblr to QAHTLW, I felt I had made a connection.

To me, it seemed like this hate comment stemmed from the Discord and was encouraged because of my reblogging of the Tumblr post.

These comments on my fic felt like retaliation for something that had happened on Tumblr.

It felt calculated. It felt systematic. It felt purposeful. It felt really fucking creepy.

I reported it to A03.

A little while after the encounter, I got a final comment from this person. He had deleted his “throwaway” account and whatever other account he had been using, leaving me this on anon:

While I did think him a jerk for all the things he had said, I can respect this. Thank you whoever you are for realizing you were being a bully. My comments to you were rude as well, I know.

But he admitted his fault in instigating the argument and said he would stop. So, I can only say, respect.

Still, though one person had left this “tag policing” behind, it had opened a can of worms. Again, he had admitted to the discord sharing and laughing at shit from Tumblr. And so far as I knew, he only found my fic because of the Discord (may or may not be true, but that’s how it came across to me at the time).

My view of the Discord was lowered further.

Then, another "problematic” Jonerys fic was posted. We’ll call this FIC2.

I didn’t think anything of it, honestly. I really, seriously didn’t.

It was by an author I love to death so naturally, anything she writes, I excitedly reblog. Which I did. I didn't do so with any kind of snide remark, I wasn’t thinking about the fic’s treatment of Jon (because I didn’t think the fic would treat Jon badly...and it didn’t), I didn’t think about the other characters this fic involved. Nothing.

I was seriously just fucking reblogging a fic from a friend, and then of course left a generic “loved it, this was hot!” comment on the fic on A03.

And I got hate for that. Surprise Surprise:

This is two comments from, I’m assuming, two different users. Both were on anon. Once again, we were called “Tumblrinas”.

But a new level to this creepiness was added.

Someone started using my name on A03 as their anon name.

(The above comment thread has since been deleted but I screenshot it before the delete because I wanted to report to A03 - using someone else’s name and/or misrepresenting another user is very much in violation of A03s Terms of Service).

So that was the first fic this happened on but this person from FIC2 has since been going on all kinds of Jonerys fics on A03 leaving more comments, calling himself “LAStoryWriterAlex’s Rules and Regulations Enforcer.”

This was on another “problematic” fic (I won’t call it Jon hate because FFS it’s NOT Jon hate!):

Along with leaving a sarcastic remark about how I and my “crew of miscreants” apparently have now made a rule that “you can only leave praise in comments”, this person also called the fic he was commenting on “garbage”. So, rude.

Then he left this on a RAPE fic:

He did not call the RAPE fic “garbage” and even used “please” and “thank you”.

Because this all seemed to stem from my reblog of FIC2 on Tumblr, I again assumed that this person, my “rules and regulations enforcer,” was from the Discord and had only seen my reblog of FIC2 because someone had snapshotted it and shown it to the Discord.

I admit, it was wrong of me to assume this. I have no way of knowing if this person is from the Discord or not. But because of my last encounter, and as this was another thing that seemed to start from Tumblr, this is what I assumed.

Then I posted my Dandry fic, Retrograde.

You all know what happened with that.

In all honesty, I didn't write this to “piss off the incels”. (I also apologize for calling the entire Discord incels. I now know a few of you and realize this was a mistake). I wrote this fic because the idea came to me, it excited me, and once I started writing, I couldn’t stop. I was having fun with it. I’ve never shipped Dany/Gendry before, but since 8x04, this fic was always an idea in the back of my mind and I himhawed with writing it, mostly because I was busy with other things, but I worked on it. And when I got the first chapter done I posted.

And all hell broke loose.

At first I had anon commenting enabled, but then disabled it because I just couldn’t fucking take it. It was exhausting.

I got kind comments, I got neutral comments, I got rude comments, I got people arguing with each other in the comments, and then I got just fucked up comments -

Comments about me, my family, my weight:

In short, my parents should have aborted me brutally, my mother is a dirty whore, I’m cancer (not the zodiac sign I’m guessing), and I’m allegedly fat.

I admit, the fat one got to me. I’m not fat, never have been overweight. But I do occasionally obsess about my weight, so that one got a reaction from me and I know, I know it shouldn’t have. But I made note anyway, of the fact that all my profiles are linked and there are pics of me in existence online that prove I’m not fat - I wanted to prove I’m not fat. My vanity got the better of me and so invited people to find pictures of me. Which had certain consequences I’ll discuss in a moment.

I also got fucked up comments about Gendry and Dany - Dany in that apparently she’s a whore, and Gendry because he’s an uneducated bastard. Which, way to go elitist scum. I really don’t feel bad about saying that. These comments are elitist and misogynistic. Really makes me wonder what people would think of Jon if the show hadn’t made him legitimate. Would they all still stan him then? Do they only like him because he was heir to the throne??

Anyway, that as just the first two pages! (There were more supportive comments than not - I think) but there are now 8 pages of comments. So you can only guess what the rest of those 8 pages contain.

I got all kinds of anons on Tumblr because of this. Some who supported my fic - thank you - and others who spewed the same kind of drivel from A03. I’m a whore, cunt, dumb bitch, awful writer, etc.

Then, because I had exposed myself and made note of all my profiles being linked (which I had initially done so friendly A03 people could find my Tumblr if they didn’t already connect the two), I started getting anons commenting on, of all things, my fucking forehead, which apparently is larger than normal? Whatever, fuck you, I think I’m adorable, so there.

I got an anon recently talking about the connection myself and others had made between the Discord and the revenge rape fics.

I agreed with anon in my response, that it was wrong for me to blame the Discord for fics like the beastiality fic in the tag. I pointed out however, that people were not attacking that writer the way they’ve been attacking me and others.

Again, it was wrong of me to assume all people in the Discord were leaving the hate comments. I admit that and I apologize for it.

But I have proof (above) that at least one of the people policing the tag was from the Discord. And I have since had reason to believe some in the Discord still police the tag and do so quite hatefully.

I was thinking about this most recent anon a lot since I got it and answered it. And then today when I was cursing the tag...

I came across one of the Modern Targcest fics.

And I saw red.

I clicked on the A03 “Collection” and skimmed through. Many of the fics were ones I had already seen/skimmed or read. But looking at the collection as a whole, I got an impression of the tag.

And yes, I admit, my impression did not apply to all fics. And even the fics it did apply to, I should have never called out.

I wanted to make a point, and I went about it the wrong way.

The point I had wanted to make was that all the people policing the tag were hypocrites because these DubCon fics (some are less consensual than others) had relatively low engagement compared to my fic which was 100% consensual.

This still is something that bothers me, honestly, though it is through no fault of the authors of these DubCon fics.

I just really hate that those fics are left relatively in peace and a fic like mine is not. Do I want those fics to get more hate? No. I just want the hate on mine and others like it to stop.

But I did go about it the wrong way.

Certain people felt I misrepresented certain fics when I made THIS post. I roped all the fics into one category, and made an assumption about them all and that was wrong.

Also, some people thought by making this post, I was saying that these authors “like” rape or are real life rape apologists, which was not my intention either.

I still believe some of these fics are on a rape-spectrum. I’m sorry, that’s just what DubCon is. Not all of these DubCon fics are rapey, but some of them are.

And it’s fine if that’s what you want to write and read. Really, it is. As I’ve stated, fanfic is a SAFE place for people to explore taboos, like rape and incest. Just because we read and write about it, doesn’t mean we would ever do it in real life. In fic, it’s fine though.

And I apologize if my post came off as kink-shaming. Not my intention.

Again, my intention was merely to point out the discrepancy in reaction to these fics because to me, a DubCon fic is more problematic than a cheating fic. My opinion. You may not share my opinion.

Really my intention here was for people to realize that, if you can turn a blind eye to DubCon (something I find pretty problematic), then you should also be able to spare the same courtesy to other fics, like cheating, cuck, or “Jon Snow hate fics” - (and it’s always someone’s opinion whether or not the fic is truly Jon Snow hate).

If Dany fans can make it through the tag without commenting on some of the more extreme DubCon fics, and through the Harem fics, then Jon Snow fans should be able to make it through the tag without commenting on the cheating and the cuck fics. (and if Jon Snow fans can pass the harem fics and not think anything of them and not hate comment, they should be able to pass by the cuck fics too!!) - cuz I don’t want people to assume I’m accusing all Jon fans of liking those harem fics. Probably many of you don’t. But if you’ve left hate on a cuck fic, but not a harem fic, that’s hypocritical. It really is.

If you’ve policed the tag and harassed an author for “punishing” Jon in their fic telling the author that they’re not really a Jon fan or not really a Jonerys fan, but you haven’t done the same in a harem (or similar) fic and stuck up for say, Dany, claiming the author isn’t a real Dany/Jonerys fan, you’re a hypocrite.

Because as I’ve pointed out, Jon and Dany aren’t at all treated the same or equal in those kinds of fics.

This isn't to say those fics are wrong, or shouldn’t be written, or don’t belong in the tag. It’s just to say if you give them a pass, you must also give a pass to everyone else.

You can’t just pick and choose which “unequal” Jonerys fics are allowed and which aren’t.

Which S8 fix-it-fics are allowed and which aren’t.

Which fics are “serious” and which are “non-serious”. (Many of the harem/breeding fics have Jon/Dany as the main pairing!)

Which are written by “real” Jonerys fans and which aren’t.

You don’t get to just make shit up.

Yes, some Dany stans are angry at Jon and want to punish him in their fics for S8 and make him sit by and watch while Dany hooks up with Daario or resurrected Drogo or Gendry or whoever.

Some Jon stans want Jon to breed Missandei and Sansa while still being married to Dany because they want to make Dany barren in their narrative even though in actual ASOIAF canon, she’s probably not.

It’s called, Deal with it.

Again, no one here is on the “right” side. No one should be policing the tag. Period.

Also, side note, no one should be insulting authors looks or using the public photos authors use as a way to harass them. This isn’t only happening to me. If we post photos of our lives, it’s because we want to share with people. It’s not an invitation for you to use that against us. Don’t be fucking creepy. And if you know if someone being fucking creepy, tell them to stop!

#I think my rant is done #Did I cover everything?#are people going to come after me with pitchforks for this one too?#fandom wank #over it

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