#so then in infinite they made chief the focus and now it's 'we don't just want to play as Spartans'

[thelvadams]

kind of annoying seeing people complaining about a lack of halo spin-offs when the general audience wouldn't give halo wars 2 it's deserved praise when it first released but i digress

[thevindicativevordan]

Finished Halo Infinite (that and school are why I haven't been as active of late) and I want to talk about it. SPOILERS below.

Might be my second favorite campaign after Halo 4 and a huge step up from Halo 5. 343 has done a much better job at getting me to care about Chief as a character compared to how Bungie approached Chief, and Infinite is a continuation of that. Throughout the game we are given constant reminders of just how tired, sad, and downright broken Chief has become. Cortana's betrayal has really fucked Chief up emotionally, and now he has to work with her "sister"/clone who looks exactly like her. Was absolutely shocked when I saw him promise the Weapon that he would protect her while at the same time he's loading up the deletion protocols in case she turns against him. Level of cold-bloodedness displayed there from Chief that we don't usually get in the games. The Weapon herself was a great audience stand-in and replacement for Cortana as Chief's AI helper. Enjoyed her chipper attitude and naïve sincerity, contrasted well with Chief's stoicism much as Cortana's snark did. Weapon is explicitly framed in-universe as a do-over for Cortana, letting us have a Jen Taylor-voiced AI companion we like without all of the "galactic tyrant" baggage. I appreciated that they finally followed up on what Halo 4 teased by giving us a "Cortana-model" AI who isn't the same as Cortana despite coming from similar origins. Just praying that tease at the end doesn't mean she's actually going to start calling herself Cortana, that would be unbearably idiotic. Elsewhere I saw a theory that she could be named Joyeuse or "Joy" to continue the theme Bungie established of naming AIs after Charlemagne's swords, and I hope that's true. Ended up liking the Pilot a lot more than I expected, having someone act as the representation for how the "civilian" population reacts to all the batshit insanity of life in the Haloverse was a nice change from the usual focus on military personnel.

Gameplay was an absolute joy, haven't had this much fun playing a FPS since the first Destiny game. For all the hate the campaign got, people really seemed to dig the gameplay and MP side of Halo 5, glad to see 343 kept and improved on the gameplay aspect (I haven't touched multiplayer yet). Grappling around made the game feel like first person Spider-Man at times, certainly made terrain traversal a more enjoyable experience for me personally. Throwing in my ten cents here, as a fan of the Forerunner guns from the previous 343 games I was sad that they were all removed. Miss the ground pound as well, but I guess those were necessary sacrifices to try to appease the Bungie diehards.

Infinite doesn't do as much with the open world as I was hoping for, storywise the open world aspects aren't acknowledged at all. Far as the story goes all the FOBs I reclaimed and the Marine Squads I liberated might as well not exist. Gameplay wise however, conquering Banished outposts with a squad of Marines armed to the teeth was utterly exhilarating. Definitely feel like a badass hero leading your 5 man squad into enemy territory and just cleaning house with it, so I can overlook the Gameplay and Story separation.

Having gushed over how much I enjoyed it, let's get to the part that's likely to be divisive: Infinite essentially torches everything Halo 5 set up on account of how unpopular 5's plot was. Cortana and the Creator/Created War? Gone, happened completely off-screen including Cortana's death. Infinity? Destroyed. Palmer/Locke/Spartan-IVs? I'm assuming some of them must still be alive elsewhere on the ring, but as of right now it's just Chief again. Hell even though the main bad guys are the Banished, our only interaction with Atriox, their founder and main foe of Halo Wars 2, is a cutscene at the start where he kicks the shit out of Chief and the post credit scene at the end. Otherwise he's believed dead the entire game by everyone, and his follower Escharum has taken over instead. Infinite is a weird mix of nostalgia throwbacks to the Bungie era - which admittedly makes sense given this is the first game in years set on an actual Halo ring - and also still trying to push the franchise forward. We get a new Big Bad replacement at the end that's hyped up to be "EVEN WORSE THAN THE FLOOD!" which is a bit of an eye roller.

Cortana is the big hurdle 343 had to clear, and I'm feeling mixed about how she was handled. On one hand she got about as good of an exit as she possibly could get given what she became. Dying a villain, but one who tried to give Chief a chance to set things right with her last act was really the only way to try to "redeem" her without using the copouts of "actually she was mind controlled/hacked/someone else impersonated her". Infinite walked a fine line between tossing out as much of what came before as it could without completely disregarding the past, and Cortana was the one element they really had to address.

Still I can't help feeling upset that the amazing ending she got in Halo 4 was undone, just to give her a much shittier ending in Infinite, where she died after having completely fallen off the deep end. As Cortana herself says "we keep saying goodbye to each other" and every one since 4 has just been dragging a character through the mud who should've been done after 4. In 4 she died a hero whereas in Infinite she died a genocide committing monster who had a last second change of heart. Story is constantly pulled between trying to appease the Halo fans who were upset she was made a villain while at the same time having to deal with the fact that she was a villain. Final goodbye with Cortana in Infinite is well-executed - it's pretty much a meta apology on 343's behalf for how they fucked her character up - but it just doesn't feel as satisfying a goodbye as you'd want from a character we spent years bonding with.

Halo's plot has gone in a loop, fitting I know, but we're essentially right back where we started. Chief and not!Cortana (who may end up literally calling herself Cortana if that tease at the ending means what I think it does and 343 are braindead) are on a Halo Ring fighting the not!Covenant who want to destroy humanity, while another alien race imprisoned on the Ring wants to break free and threatens both groups. Credits hit right as it felt like the story was just starting to ramp up. They still don't even have a way off the Ring by the end!

Despite the entire game making ominous references to "The Endless", we end the game knowing practically nothing about them, same as when we started. Harbinger doesn't exactly strike fear in my heart based on appearance either, so I hope the rest of the Endless (assuming she was one which we aren't sure of either) are more intimidating in terms of design. Plot isn't much to write home about either, it's just Chief and the Weapon trying to piece together what the fuck happened during the 6 months he was out. Billing the game as being about "exploring the mysteries of Zeta Halo" was pretty dishonest. Other than the fate of Cortana, none of the mysteries are answered, we're left with more questions than answers. At the end we still have no real clue what makes Zeta "different" from the other Halos.

Reason I'm not more negative about the game overall is it appears we're getting more DLC soon that will progress the story, and I also understand that the new regime at 343 is basically trying to tie up the old guard's loose ends, so that they can then move on to the stories they want to tell. Much more interested in whatever Staten is cooking up than I am in trying to turn Reed's proverbial straw into gold. Plus the story is really about the emotional relationship between Chief, Cortana, and the Weapon, and that aspect is absolutely nailed and helps carry the campaign. Gotta admit that all those cutscene hologram/flashbacks to various moments from Halo lore, in both the games and the books felt very rewarding as someone who only casually dips into the deeper ends of the Halo universe.

Infinite feels like a better executed attempt at what the Star Wars sequels tried for, mixing the old and new. While I'm still sad about how badly the potentially exciting ideas set up in Halo 4 and Halo 5 were executed and are now abandoned, I'm interested in the new mysteries and plotlines being teased. 343 seems to have at last settled on a direction for the franchise, and seemingly more campaign DLC is coming soon to continue the story. Infinite isn't a perfect game, it's not the ideal sequel to Bungie era Halo or even Halo 5, but it's a damn fun game that brought some new ideas to the franchise while jettisoning what didn't work before. Excited to see what comes next for Chief and company!

[tbonechessor]

Halo infinite spoilers under the cut

I appreciate that the story is willing to play ball with elements of H4 and H5 even if it's trying to distance themselves from them.

But it's also clear that SOMEONE on the writing team is still attached to Evil Cortana as a concept and is fighting for it for whatever fucking reason. Why are we wrestling with it so Much? Why aren't we fighting to undo it more? Why are we still playing with this incredibly dumb idea. Kill kill kill die attack kill die

I'm also a little frustrated with this games lack of... scale. There really are no classic Halo "Big moments" when the individual characters fade away to make way for a more "Epic" moment.

Which again comes back to sweeping the large scale stuff under the rug to focus on our little Halo 4 sequel moments I guess.

Don't get me wrong I love chief n cortana n weapon and seeing him be put into moments of vulnerability and forcing him to make desicions that develop him. All that stuff is great, amazing, fantastic. But it's all so... miniscule.

It's not the way Halo HAS to be huge ALL the time. but I feel like if you're trying to do a "Classic Halo" reboot That's where you gotta go. Even Halo 4 had plenty of moments that made you go ooooooooOOOOOH HOLY SHIIIIIT.

Releasing the Didact

The Crashing Infinity

Flying the pelican

Flying the Longsword

Yeah... just "BIG" Moments. I feel like we're missing that so far. I kinda wish 343 would stop gaslighting me into thinking that Super Deep and Meaningful Character moments is what halo is all about just because Complex Characters are IN right now. I LIKE the Simple characters who want simple things.

Let me and my Fanfic reading mutuals make them complicated. Show me a ship getting cut in half by another ship or something pls I am so thirsty for a big mythical moment dripping with melancholic atmosphere.

Like I'm at the Warthog Run when it's time to rescue the pilot and the stakes are just so small potatoes. I Love the Pilot with my heart and soul Don't get me wrong. But it's hard to feel like that matters in a big way? Idk these are just my thoughts so far.

[thebluelemontree]

The show handled the Winterfell rape infinitely better than the books. Which made the brutal torture and rape of Jeyne all about Theon. And forced it on a character few readers actually cared about or identified with. And Sophie Turner did the best she could in interviews. You don't magically become capable of handling the topic because you turn 18. People aren't angry about rape being used as a trivial way to prop up a man they are angry the show refused to take that route.

Going to answer your points out of order.

1)  About ST being an adult and her ability to make public commentary on handling a sensitive, real world subject.  Here’s the thing…  if I admit I’m uninformed about a topic but I make public statements lecturing other people on that topic, I deserve to get called out on it.  That’s what being an adult is.  You have to own your words and actions, 18 or 88.  I would not have blamed her if she had decided to not speak on it, but she was a chief defender of that scene.  D&D, middle-aged men, certainly avoided speaking about it and it was shitty that they let a young adult run interference for their decisions.  It’s not that ST is responsible for not “automatically” obtaining wisdom and insight at 18.  It’s readily volunteering to publically criticize people who reasonably questioned why this “had to” take place when she stated her knowledge was limited.  She was chastising them for somehow taking away from talking about sexual assault in real life, as if how that is presented in media has no bearing on real life or has no place in the “real” conversation.  Look, I’m not saying she deserved to be crucified over it.  I’m saying it was a jackass, uninformed thing to say that no one forced her to make.  She’s a big girl and can take her lumps just like any other adult.     

2)  I have never heard one person say they were upset they didn’t make this more about Theon’s development.  I don’t know how you concluded this was why people were upset.  If you recall, the camera actually fixated quite a long time on Theon’s face, leading many people to think “Oh my God, they are making this about how it affects Theon.”  Actually that unintentional (and unfortunate) decision came when the director just liked how Alfie Allen was reacting in the background.  If they didn’t want to focus on Sophie’s face, they could have chose some object in the room to focus on instead or cut to black much earlier.  So yeah there was a level of thoughtlessness there to how it was shot and the final cut, which does not support the idea of the show handling it well.

3)  Exactly how did the show handle this better when no one can logically explain why Sansa “had to” be in Winterfell to begin with?  Littlefinger gives her a bizarre, vague pep talk about “avenging” her family through marrying Ramsey Bolton.  LF lso gives away his prize pawn for literally nothing in return for his character.  Sansa decides to go along with this without questioning how exactly she is supposed to “avenge” her family.  How does legitimizing through marriage the usurper’s claim to Winterfell supposed to give Sansa the advantage?  None of this made any sense.  It was a completely forced plot to get Sansa in the position to be raped by the big bad.  Did we need the scene for the audience to discover how monstrous Ramsey really is?  No.  We already knew he was a rapist and sadist through Theon well before this happened.  Oh btw, how does the show handle Theon’s trauma from being (implied) raped, tortured, and sexually mutilated?  Take every opportunity to make him a joke.  Yes, they handle it so much better.  I have interview quotes from D&D here in this post stating their thinking behind using “painful experience” to make Sansa badass, which is the core of the rape-revenge trope.  I would highly recommended the breakdown videos of @knightsinquisitor for all of D&D’s decisions compiled from interviews and dvd commentary.  Specifically:

If @knightsinquisitor has anything to add, please feel free.

4)  As for the book handling of Jeyne’s story and rape in general, there’s some criticisms I agree with and some I don’t.  One thing is for certain, I have a clear understanding of the logical chain of events that led to Jeyne being in Winterfell.  Theon may be the witness in his POV to Jeyne’s story, but I don’t find it makes her story all about him.  No more than telling Sandor’s story through Arya and Sansa’s POV makes it all about the girls.  I cannot speak for all readers in how much they care about Jeyne Poole, but I haven’t found anyone who wasn’t sympathetic to her story since the purging of the Stark men in KL.  Littlefinger is 100% responsible for her situation.  He assisted with the Stark downfall which killed her father, he sent her to a brothel, then he sent her to WF to impersonate Arya.  She’s a key component of the plot there.  We have the northern houses rallying for last stand against the Boltons and Freys “for Ned’s little girl.”  We have the rescue mission attempt by Mance Rayder and the spearwives.  Theon is agrees to help, but he’s not the major actor here.  So no, I don’t see how George is making it all about Theon.  Jeyne is still alive and many readers reasonably speculate that she could be the key witness that brings down LF permanently.  Learning Jeyne’s story may be the tipping point that motivates Sansa to execute LF, because as of now she still believes he saved her life.  She doesn’t know that he orchestrated everything.  Whatever happens, Jeyne is still alive and in play for a reason. So she may have started as relatively minor, but it does look like her story has major ripple effects.  People are coming to her aid and are bent on raining down justice on the Boltons.  

The show handling is a cheap imitation of all these plot intricacies.  How did Sansa’s rape affect the Northern plot in the show?  Did the North rally for her and seek justice?  Hell no.  It’s not like what Ramsay was doing was a secret.  Worse, Sansa had to go crawling back to LF to ask him to bring the KotV.  Lyanna Mormont mocks her for a forced marriage to Tyrion and her nightmare marriage to Ramsay.  I cannot see, for the life of me, how I am supposed to consider this better treatment.