#someone that's not OG penny or Cha Siyeon

[havg02]

'Penelope being mean' issue (obvs spoilers)

I think this is a thought that may have passed by in everyone's heads once and it's also what I've seen people often comment about, that Penny acts quite 'selfish' and mean in the story, such as making Callisto wait instead of quickly getting married after finally killing Leila and being snappy with him sometimes, and while Iklies has done wrong things until the end, she also has neglected him by not seeing him regularly and used him--and this would understandably make some people quite upset at her.

But it has to be remembered that Penny--no, specifically Cha Siyeon lived in a neglectful and mean family throughout her whole life. I'm not sure what you would feel after being stripped of any sort love and someone suddenly showed it to you one day, though I think most people would be flustered/strangely uncomfortable/unsure about it, and shy away/avoid it. That being said, affection and love is completely foreign to her, which is why she's so awkward around the Duke and others--especially when they speak so sincerely caring to her. She has friends and can talk to people fine but family and romantic relationships are out of the question, something that friendly relationships are very different to.

Siyeon being snappy to Callisto was an act of nervousness and annoyance on why he was still close to her, like get away and leave me alone so you don't kill me. If you knew someone as who only killed the character you reincarnated in, you'd also want them to leave you alone and not do anything to do with them. Not to mention, she had only knew Callisto for like year and that's way too quick to get into a full relationship and get married tbh. Also Si yeon has always wanted to become an archeologist but wasn't able to since her studies was stopped when she moved into Penny's body so while she's still a student, she most definitely would want to continue to her studies like anyone who has a strong goal that they'd put before anything else like her would.

If anything, I think that's a great idea, to take the time to fully know him without the worry of Leila in the way. As for Iklies, as much as I hated him for betraying her, I still can't brush aside that he didn't mean to do it to get her killed/fully betray her for Ivonne so.....I feel very sorry for him still, since he just wanted to make a plan to get her out of the mansion (ignoring the fact he wanted her dependent on him) but he didn't know that Siyeon wasn't ready to really make that decision to leave home. While the Eckarts are terrible, Siyeon's original was even more worse in my opinion, like; her getting physically hurt and the father saying her achievements weren't good enough--even the Duke wouldn't let Penny go through that or undermine her talent, and might actually be impressed instead since og Penny never really did anything accomplishing?

So meanwhile in her stay at the mansion, she starts to experience real affection by the Duke who starts to open up now that she has reached out to him first (although it's only to survive) and I say mainly Duke bc he's the one she thought of whenever the topic of leaving the duchy comes up and he's the only one she got most proper love from. Therefore that has made her subconsciously start to want to stay since she's deprived of love but also want to still run away as he has abused her/penny (same thing since she's a reincarnated penny), though that would've been great if she made that clear to Iklies who may of would've of thought of a better idea instead of leaving him confused why she wanted to stay.

But then again, Siyeon is not really a talker but a do-er and it's not like she can open up to anyone either due to trust issues, consequently causing so many problems as you see in the novel. In conclusion, I don't think Penny should be seen as selfish for all of that, after all she's a victim of neglect, verbal and mental abuse, and suffers a lot of problem as a result. Not to mention you'd gain a bit of temper after that kind of treatment, like Callisto who's known to be scary bc of his fierce vibes to ward off assassins? Although it isn't canonically discussed in the novel, it does kind of make her actions plausible/relatable so it'd be nice if people understood her feelings than the ML's who would've still killed the og Penny even without Leila's brainwashing.

[seirclys]

First of all, I love this page for Shrike and fking the overthinking that we do here. ( ´ ▽ ` ).｡ｏ♡

But all this reading on this page makes me feel shit with the og!Penny, I know that Penny's change in the manwha is because of Cha Siyeon and her personality is much tamer than her original self, but man it makes me wanna cry at the abuse she originally took. And the analysis you've done on this page makes me always hurt for the torture og!Penny had to take cos of Laila. I don't know how she could forgive all of them since they killed her so many times, especially the Eckharts who abused her. It's really hard to picture any of them with a happy ending with og!Penny, Cha Siyeon could only forgive them to a degree since she was a fragment of the if's soul who couldn't rmb her pain from the past. Being emotionally abused like that is torture, the fact that og!Penny still tried to save them is so heartbreaking. And they would have had the same fate as Cha Siyeon's family where Siyeon left them, because she associated them with her personal pain she rmbs and not the one og!Penny felt originally. (ಡ‸ಡ) I always don't know how to feel about this, so what are your thoughts on this? Should the Eckharts ever be forgiven? Cos like Siyeon eventually forgave them unlike her own family and cos Eckharts eventually treasured her but idk about their past actions. (ᗒᗣᗕ)՞

I answered this a few times before, and I'll answer it again.

WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN ECKHART FORGIVENESS IN THIS HOUSE.

I always thought there was a degree of abuse apologism in the Eckharts and Siyeon's interactions. While Siyeon constantly commented how "they were just like her own family" and that "she wasn't the real Penelope", THAT WAS FINE. WHAT WAS NOT FINE, WAS THE FACT THAT WHEN IT WAS REVEALED THAT SHE WAS A SHARD OF THE OG!PENELOPE'S SOUL, WE FAST-FORWARDED TO THE EPILOGUE AND THAT THEY WERE MORE OR LESS FORGIVEN.

MISS GIRL. YOU DID NOT FORGIVE YOUR OWN FAMILY, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK Y OU CAN FORGIVE THE ECKHARTS ON THE BEHALF OF SOMEONE WHO IS DEAD BECAUSE OF THEM. EVEN IF YOU WERE A SHARD, YOU DIDN'T HAVE HER TRAUMA OR MEMORIES. YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT.

SIYEON DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE ABLE TO FORGIVE THE ECKHARTS. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION SHE SHOULD'VE LEFT CALLISTO AND RETURNED TO EORKA.

KEEP YOURSELF ON YOUR OG GOAL MISSY.

(oh you're dying of stomach cancer? miss girl you have the dragon fangs and the best doctors in the modern world working on you, statistically either science or otherworldly divine artifacts will cure you, take your pick.)

ok i'm slightly more calmed down. I hate the "you were always a part of the original Penelope!! \o/ " because then it's more tragic. The Eckharts only started loving Penelope and treating her better when she didn't have the trauma and memories of their neglect and abuse, and when she was more obedient. It almost creates this narrative of "if you hurt them and break them down long enough, they'll assimilate" and it shows that abuse "makes people better" in their eyes.

Like eventually, og!Penelope had to break and be submissive, and thus "she was finally good enough to be part of the family—" NO.

If I ever get transmigrated into VADD I'm committing arson. Eorka can burn for all I care, and I'm rescuing og!Penelope. I can't care less about Siyeon, tbh. Her character gives me the icks.

yes I realize I was wrong in a previous assumption, and the fact that SIYEON, A MODERN WOMAN, was so willing to participate in slavery is kind of very disturbing(even for her own survival), especially since she was basically treated badly in her own home, and probably treated as a capitalist slave when she worked multiple jobs— still not an Eckles stan, he can still go die for all I care.

Penelope's trauma regarding Laila and the MLs(and the duke) is frankly kind of horrifying. She deserves to be wrapped in blankets and be in a kitty pile.

[doomed-prophetess]

Do you think cha siyeon would have liked og Penelope

I can't explain why but I have the feeling the author would answer this question with a yes, but according to me? No. She only seems to pity her which is vastly different from liking someone. And even the pity is only reserved for moments where og Penelope reminds her of her child self. When og Penelope's behaviour deviates from something Cha Siyeon has done or would have done she falls back to victim blaming her. She has nothing good to say about her except when she is complimenting her looks. I think Cha Siyeon is only capable of caring for herself. Whenever she shows empathy to someone she can't help it but make it about herself. Notice how she can only feel bad about others by comparing them to herself and can only build up a relationship to her capture targets (Iklies, Callisto) through an attempt of trauma bonding. There is no sympathy to be found when the person in question doesn't serve a purpose.

Had Cha Siyeon not known about og Penelope's family circumstances, she would have found her annoying, stupid and uncivilized. I mean she already has moments where she looks down on Penny like that. Their personalities would either clash irl or they wouldn't know what to do with each other. Introvert vs extravert. No common interests (reading books/doing research vs climbing/archery), no common preferences (modest style vs. extravagant style). Both have walls build around them and aren't willing to do the first step. They don't open up easily. And Cha Siyeons attitude (making empty promises, lying, deceiving others and using them and then throwing them away, thinking only of herself) would remind og Penelope too much of all those awful nobles she had met before. If Cha Siyeon had taken og Penelope under her wings it would feel like it was her own little charity project to make herself feel better. I don't think she'd genuinely like her or that they could find a connection beyond "wow both of our lives suck".

[bigbrainbiology]

Ok but that old fanfic trope where person gets isekai-ed into a manhwa, but instead they're a kid vers. of the main chara and they've read it all and know how the Cha Siyeon version of the story ends and wants to change the story but they get the chance to do it from earlier in the plot that we as readers haven't properly seen but only theorised - *gasps for breath*

<3

Kinda based of this image ->

[boredmariedelline]

My (very personal) thoughts on Emily:

I’m officially back from vacation! This opinion has been sitting in my drafts for a good while now.

I remember someone, but I forgot who, was asking for an Emily-based opinion piece so here it is. This is my first time writing something like this, so here goes:

She's a meh character for me. Like, I really don't care much for her. I mean, she's there. She exists as a minor antagonist turned unlikely ally who somehow changes morals in a relatively short time span.

To me she's like a minor starter antagonist because, well, like a game, the protagonist has a starter villain, who is usually not the powerful, to practice moves and tactics for higher ranking villains. Emily is the first antagonist Siyeon faces literally from the moment she wakes up. Plus, the maid character is usually one of the first allies MC gets because of the proximity to the household, influencing them though her maid (See: The Villainess Reverses the Hourglass, a pretty good example of it)

Anyways, for the changing morals part, I have two theories. A. doesn't hold that deep of a personal grudge towards Penny because of herd mentality or B. had an epiphany while in jail for that short time.

A. Not that Deep of a Grudge

To me, her initial grudge rate towards og!Penelope before Cha Siyeon was around 60% for all the tantrums and stuff. It's more than half but it's not by that much since she had a form of getting her resentment out, which unfortunately is through the rotten food, needles and the cold water. Personally, I think the needle marks were supposed to make them think Penny was on drugs to emphasize her madness??? (that goes into the semi-crack theory bin)

I'm guessing she's roughly around the same age as Penny considering her looks and demeanor. She's childishly stupid in a way, since she is pretty obvious in her antagonism towards Penny (needle marks, seriously?! Almost all of Penny’s outfits are short-sleeved and the rest are ¾ sleeves, making them very obvious, since they’re concentrated on the forearm but makeup exists) and didn't really care for the possible consequences of her actions (so did the rest of the household). 

B. Epiphany while in Jail

Emily pretty much had a reality check when Penelope stood up for herself. In the manhwa, Emily realizes it when she comes back after jail but in this theory, it's during jail. So it could very well be possible that Emily had an epiphany. She probably realized something has changed within Penelope and she’s terrified of it. Emily realizes that it’s better to stay close to Penelope as an ally rather than an enemy since this new Penelope could ruin her and her career as a maid at an instant. 

Basically, it means that Emily recognizes Siyeon as Penelope now has leverage against her and can use it at any moment. 

In most households there is a hierarchy and when there's a hierarchy there is leverage against a lower rank like position and money. In this case, Penelope can use the incident as her leverage against Emily thus making her subservient through fear. That is kinda mean of her but the author makes everyone morally ambiguous so it’s up to the reader’s discretion. 

In conclusion, I believe that  both of the theories I’ve presented work out in both ways, but I’m leaning more towards the second one. Gwon Gyeoul presented almost all of the characters as morally ambiguous (except maybe Cedric and Marianne) and their alignments are up to the reader’s discretion and I decide that Emily is still meh but she still had her reasons in both ways.

Reblogs are appreciated especially if you’ve got thoughts on this.

[doomed-prophetess]

On a another topic about characters who should have magic but don't somehow: ogPenelope.

Apparently in the spoliers I read, ogPenelope is a descendant of the ancient wizards who sealed away Leila. But somehow she can't use magic at all? It wasn't even implied or hinted that she was a mage/wizard it kinda out of noway. And if that's the case how come Siyeon could use Penelope's magic but not Penelope herself.

And the reason she was brought back multiple times was so SHE could stop Leila despite not being obligated to. This isn't her job or responsibility, just because her descendants sealed Leila away doesn't mean she should be forced to.

On another note, what kind of magic do ancient wizards even use? Do they cast spells by hand or use wands? How is ogPenelope the only ancient wizard left? That just add more unnecessary pressure over something penny didn't even had.

You are right. I think I mentioned this once too and theorized (more like trying to fill up plot holes really) that og Penelope might have used her magic unconsciously to heal her body every time she suffered from food poisoning or an injury. This could be another reason why none of her suicide attempts succeeded. It would also explain why someone suffering from malnutrition who had been cooped up in their room most of the time had the physical strenght to climb up walls.

Cha Siyeon should have either been unable to use Penelope's magic completely or her use of magic should have required a heavy price to pay. It would have made sense if she could only use a small portion of the magic og Penelope possessed. Since Cha Siyeon is supposed to be one of Penelope's thousand soulpieces you could argue that this would give her the right to only access a tiny percentage of her power and make her unable from exploiting og Penelope's full potential. It woud have forced her to become creative with the way she uses her magic and make her not rely too much on it/search for different ways to defeat the Leila. I have the suspicion that the magic system is just like in wmmap rather undeveloped (we are probably dealing with soft magic system without clearly defined rules). I doubt they even have magic wands.

Does Vinter even know she's an ancient mage? If she's supposed to defeat the big bad and was revived for this very reason then why is he so suspicious of her? I mean she suffered the most because of Leila so why would one think she might be allied with her mortal enemy?

[doomed-prophetess]

So Daughter of the Duke - Love Project! is the first and only dating Sim Siyeon has ever played right? Surprised she never questioned why on earth were Yvonne's and og!Penelope's biological/adopted brothers love interests for them. Like that right away should have been a sign or red flag that one or both of their brothers had romantic feelings towards them. Not sure on why she was surprised that Derrick was in love or rather lusting over og!Penelope when she knew that Derrick was a LOVE INTEREST and she's trapped in a DATING SIM no least.

Also find it odd that Siyeon wanted og!Penelope to get a happy ending with Penelope's tormentors. The girl literally said that reynold and Derrick were like her half-brothers in Korea and mentioned that her and og!Penelope were similar due to some of those reasons. But when you put it into context it sounds really wrong.

I highly doubt og!Penelope would be happy with any of the male leads recycled to her.(I said recycled since the author gave penny the same male leads as Yvonne)

Not only does her surprise at the stepbrother trope imply she didn't play any Dating Sims before Love Project! it also implies Cha Siyeon never read (m)any light novels, shoujo mangas/manhwas or bl. Perhaps she was focusing on her studies to get away from her family and saw attempting to bond over books and kdramas useless since the rich kids at her private school bullied her anyway.

Tbh I was also surprised that Derrick was basically in love (or is it lust?) with her since day one but this is because I'm used to seeing brother LI's act usually like unapologic siscons and not bullies.

Siyeon didn't go after those men to make Penny happy. She was self inserting herself into the character, wanted to relieve her trauma and change the course of her story. Her obsession with the game was how she coped with her childhood trauma once she left her home. She wanted to see what could have been between herself and her family irl.

You know how people model their relationships after their parents/what they grew up seeing? Or a more harmless example: if a certain character trait in your family is valued and respected you come to value it too and seek it out in the people you surround yourself with. It's extremely odd for Cha Siyeon to romance her stepbrothers who resemble her actual half brothers irl but if you put it in context it makes sense from a psychological standpoint.

To have someone who treats you shitty suddenly love and adore you feels better than to have someone treat you consistently with respect. This type of height feels like a drug. It's definitely not healthy but is it understandable? Is it realistic? Very.

Penelope wouldn't be very happy about any of this. Ending up with her abusers, her murderers, her brothers...Derrick is the worst. I cannot see Derrick x Penelope end up in a way that doesn't include manipulation, coercion, financial and emotional dependence and so on. I may be a Penelope x Derrick shipper but I'm not deluding myself into believing he wouldn't damage her. Their relationship would just change from extremely abusive to mildly abusive that would trick the player into believing it's healthy and they managed to "fix him" by giving him what he wants when all this abuse happened because he was bitter that he couldn't get what he wanted. I also can't see Penelope ever falling in love with him or Reynold. She wanted a family. Platonic affection. Pushing a sexual relationship with her stepbrother on her won't do her any good. Her perception of family was always messed with. It's sad if she can never get away from them.