#that's also why i disagree with people saying that miles is The Only True Spider-Man There just cause he was the first to outright reject it

[stairset]

I think the portrayal of Spider-Man 2099 in Across the Spider-Verse is in-character in that aside from like Shattered Dimensions he's always been portrayed as a bit of an asshole who slips into anti-hero territory at times and generally has a "needs of the many over the needs of the few" mindset and given his specific circumstances in the movie it's not unreasonable to think he could take the actions he does. However it does kinda suck that since like 99% of moviegoers had no idea who he was before the movie came out their first impression of him is when he's in an antagonistic role and people think "antagonist" and "villain" are synonyms so now I'm gonna have to listen to people who've never read a comic saying he's a villain or isn't a real Spider-Man for the rest of time or at least until he inevitably changes his mind in the third one.

[septembercfawkes]

Save the Cat! Explained: Beginning

Save the Cat! is one of the most popular modern story structures, used by filmmakers and novelists alike. I admit, out of the most popular story structures, this approach has not been my favorite, even though it's very effective and very famous. But the more time goes on, the more I've come to appreciate it. Like all the other story structures, I feel like Save the Cat! has both strengths and weaknesses. As I explain the structure, I'll also be sharing my opinions on any concepts I feel could be refined and improved upon. Who am I to think I can do this? Well, I certainly don't have the same credentials of the creator of it, Blake Snyder! But I can back up everything I say, and you'll have to decide for yourself what you think. But this structure is a great one to learn, in part because it works for so many writers and in part because it includes elements that other structures do not. Also, I know I have friends and followers who have probably had years more experience with it than I have, so I'd like to invite anyone who can refine our understanding of this structure to leave comments, should they so desire. Again, I'll be referring to Spider-verse--NOT because I'm obsessed with it, but because I want to again show how the same story actually fits multiple structures--not one, as so many tend to believe. (If I had known I was going to do all this story structure stuff, I probably would have picked a different story, but hey, it won an Academy Award, so yeah!) There is also a bigger point all these structure posts are building up to, which will eventually be on my blog, once I get all the groundwork done.

This structure was developed by a screenwriter, and the title comes from a screenwriting method, where you show the hero saving a cat to make them more likeable, although the method is never in the structure itself (I think it stuck, because that's the title of the book it comes from). The numbers  next to the terms represent what scene that term takes place in. If you are writing a novel, you often have more wiggle room. But I've left them as a guideline. Is Save the Cat! really the last story structure you'll ever need (as the book claims)? I question that sometimes. But I'll let you decide for yourself. For now, let's appreciate and dig into this wonderful thing Blake Snyder created and decided to share to help all of us writers.

The Beginning

Opening Image (1)

The Opening Image is what it sounds like. It's the "opening image." 😆 But that sounds a little vague, so let's explain it some more. The Opening Image is going to give the audience the first impression of the story--it's going to help set the tone, the type, the scope, and the stakes. Which frankly, seems like a great thing to do when introducing a story to someone.

Typically, it also shows the audience the starting point of the hero (which will not only set the stage, but help prepare us for how he or she is going to arc). There will be a matching beat at the end The Final Image, which will typically illustrate how the hero has changed.

Another purpose of the Opening Image, is to communicate to the audience that this is gonna be a great story.

This is all the first scene. So in Lion King, we get to see all these different animals from all over in the African kingdom, come to meet baby Simba. In A Quiet Place, we get to see a family all together, navigating an abandoned setting in near silence.

My opinion: If you have a story that really pulls off two different tones, or rather, two different draws, then it might be helpful to sort of have two Opening Images--with one as a prologue. This is a situation where a prologue might actually be a great idea. To learn more about that approach, check out my post on prologues.

In Spider-verse

So in Spider-verse, the Opening Image is the very beginning where Spider-man talks about how great it is to be the one and only Spider-man. That whole scene completely sets the tone of the story and establishes the type of story it is (Spider-man saving people), it also gives us the scope--he saves all of New York City, which then gives us the stakes--the people in New York  City (and his loved ones). Sure, it doesn't have Miles, but we'll get to him in the next scene.

Because so much of what Spider-man says in The Opening Image is going to be contradicted (and the audience knows this), it promises to the audience that this story is gonna be a great story.

Theme Stated (5)

Not too many scenes later (and in screenwriting, it's usually the 5th scene), someone other than the main character will say a question or statement that, in Snyder's words, is the theme of the movie. Often this is said to the protagonist.

Some of his given examples are, "Be careful what you wish for," "Pride goeth before the fall," or "Family is more important than money."

"It won't be this obvious," Snyder writes, "it will be conversational, an offhand remark the main character doesn't get until later. . . . This statement is the [story's] thematic premise."

My opinion: This is a place in this story structure where my views deviate a bit from Snyder, though honestly . . . I feel if I were to explain my views to him . . . I think he'd probably agree with them--we just look at this differently.

Snyder says a good movie is always "about something," and so you should stick that statement right here.

I personally think this is kind of a narrow definition and approach, especially when I can point to specific successful stories that don't do this exact thing.

I think he's right that there should be a thematic beat around here, but I don't think it needs to be the thematic statement (and maybe this is why he uses the word "premise"). Instead, if you've read my post about the thematic pendulum, I'm going to argue pretty confidently that this is when the protagonist first (or nearly first) encounters an extreme, opposing worldview on the theme topic. It may or may not embody the thematic statement.

Remember, a thematic statement is something like "Love is the most powerful force in the world." And a theme topic, is the topic of that statement, "Love."

I won't repeat everything, but basically, in my opinion, the theme topic will be explored and ideas about it tested through the story. Part of this includes confronting the protagonist with a worldview that is opposite of his.

That's what I think this moment is. For example, in Hamilton, Hamilton meets Burr who has the exact, extreme opposite worldview of him. While Hamilton sings all about not throwing away his shot to ensure a legacy, in the same song, Burr expresses that Hamilton needs to shut his mouth and not make waves if he wants to get anywhere in life. HOWEVER--neither of these viewpoints actually embody the true thematic statement, which is that we can't control our legacy. What the opposing outlook does do is that it works to introduce and kick off the thematic journey.

I'll pull from other examples (some from my pendulum post) to back this up:

In Les Mis, Jean Valjean is shown mercy by the bishop--an extreme, opposing worldview from his (which is focused on justice). In Harry Potter, Harry, who is unloved, must witness Dudley's birthday--a case where a child is so loved that he is spoiled rotten. In The Hunger Games, Katniss, who believes the country can never be changed, has her worldview challenged by Gale, who openly talks about how sick the Games are and asks what would happen if everyone refused to watch it.

Sure, in some examples, the true thematic statement is said, but not always--in a broader sense, it's really an extreme, opposing worldview that enters the picture.

I'm also going to disagree with the fact the theme has to be said. Not even the opposing worldview needs to be said. But it does, at least, need to be shown. (Case in point, Harry having to witness his aunt and uncle dote on Dudley.)

So this is one element in the structure that I think could use some more refining, but Snyder is great at drawing our attention to it. Yes, we need to introduce the theme topic around here.

In Spider-verse

As Miles goes to school, one of his teachers calls him out for intentionally failing his test. She says he's trying to quit, and she assigns him to write an essay about what kind of person he wants to be.

Set-up (1-10)

This is pretty straightforward. In the Hero's Journey structure, this the equivalent of the "Ordinary World" section. For the first segment of scenes, the writer will be grounding the audience in the story, showing who the main character and other key characters are. This will establish why the protagonist needs to change (or arc) in the story. While I usually think of this moment as also introducing the setting ("Ordinary World"),

Snyder emphasizes prepping for the hero's arc, which is nice, because he probably does this more than the other popular structures.

In this section, you need to "plant every character tic, exhibit every behavior that needs to be addressed later on," related to the hero. There is something (or rather, multiple things) the hero is lacking, and the writer needs to show this. These elements will be explored, twisted, and (likely) cured through the course of the story. All these things you show about the character here, can be called back on, later.

While Snyder doesn't use my exact words, he touches on the idea that this establishes what is "normal" for the characters and society--which will begin to be challenged with the catalyst.

In Spider-verse

We meet Miles and other key characters. Throughout his ordinary day, we see him time and time again wanting to quit and not applying himself. He wants to quit his new school. He intentionally does bad on a test. He chooses not to write the essay he was assigned (and instead goes to visit his uncle). His relationship with his dad needs work.

Catalyst (12)

This is what the Hero's Journey calls "The Call to Adventure," or what some call the "inciting incident." In my words, this is when something comes along and disrupts or challenges the established normal. It calls the hero in a different direction.

Snyder doesn't say much more about it than that, and a lot of times, not more needs to be said. Something happens and suddenly the protagonist has to deal with a new situation.

Examples:

Harry learns he's a wizard. Primrose has her name pulled out at the reaping. George Washington asks Hamilton to be his right-hand man. Now of age, Elsa must have her coronation, which includes having guests over.

In Spider-verse

This is the moment Miles gets bit by the spider--it disrupts the established normal and calls him in a new direction.

In Spider-verse

This is the moment Miles gets bit by the spider--it disrupts the established normal and calls him in a new direction.

Debate (12-25)

This is the initial reaction segment--we see the hero first reacting to the Catalyst. In the Hero's Journey, this is basically "The Refusal of the Call," where the hero, at minimum, hesitates before embarking on her new journey.

Snyder uses a different term, which brings to mind a slightly different perspective. That the hero is debating what to do.

Does he run away? Try to get help? Hope to ignore the Catalyst? These are things that might run through his head. We may see the hero trying a few different things.

When you compare different story structure models, there can be some ambiguity on what this means and includes, which I hope to define more in a later post. But for now, we'll stick to Save the Cat!

Snyder states that this section must answer a question of some kind. For example, in Legally Blonde, the Catalyst is Elle getting dumped; during the Debate, she decides to go to Harvard Law, and the question becomes, "But will she be accepted?"

My opinion: To me, the question (or questions) posed in the Debate is really a nod to oppositions/challenges and stakes--or in other words, difficulties and potential consequences. If there are no difficulties or significant outcomes, then what the character does during the Debate doesn't really matter and doesn't carry any weight (which I guess would mean the Catalyst may not be a true Catalyst).

So personally, I'd like to take this a step further and say it's helpful that the audience is aware of the risks in play as the character Debates.

Which is funny, because this is what the Hero's Journey touches on--if there isn't a moment where the character at least hesitates, then the audience can't appreciate the seriousness of the situation. By touching on the risks/stakes, we do that, and give this moment a little more oomph. . . . But . . . I promised to not get into other structures here (oops!)

In Spider-verse

The morning after getting bit by the spider, Miles starts to debate what is going on. Is it puberty? Is it Spider-man abilities? Was it the spider bite? But it had to be an ordinary spider! How can the same thing that happened to Spider-man be happening to him? etc. I'm going to say the stakes are touched on, in that we get a glimpse of what the potential challenges and consequences would be if he is a Spider-man. (Particularly in that moment where he sees his roommate's comic book and imagines the future . . . and then runs away.) . . . in a future post, I'll explain and analyze the middle.

[superbatson]

into the spider-verse: a review

it took me a little too long to finally get around to watching this movie and for that, i apologize. i honestly did consider watching it before but found myself a little distracted by the animation style. but in finally giving the movie a try during a road trip yesterday (downloaded for offline viewing on netflix), i realized that said style is actually pretty cool.

it may look like an unfinished 3d animated film at first, but the characters are actually a bit of a blend of 2d and 3d animation. they have the edges and shadows of 3d animation but the lines of 2d animated characters. and i've heard that the movie is supposed to be like reading a comic book, and even without Those editing choices, it's true. the characters look like they lept right off the page and even the somewhat choppy way they move goes along with that comic book feel.

and a movie like this just couldn't be done right in live-action form because of that. it's so stylistic - the other spider-people like peni and ham have completely different animation styles to correlate with their universes! - that it would have just seemed boring if done in live-action like as an mcu movie. i can easily see why it won the best animated feature oscar and why so many people online say it's the best spider-man movie ever. i can neither agree nor disagree since it's only the second spider-man movie i've seen (the first being homecoming), but i still think those who have made that statement are completely valid. this is an excellent movie all around, and even with the other spider-people, it's still definitely miles' story.

of course, this movie is shameik moore's film, and everyone else just more or less has a cameo in is. he owns the entire movie and really makes you feel for miles. his miles is really a better and more capable spider-man than tom holland's peter. he has more powers than him, but also a lot more confidence by the end. they both have similar "come on, spider-man. get up" sort of scenes, but by the end of their films, well, mcu!peter is still kinda living in iron man's shadow and forever trying to live up to him. miles assumes the spider-man mantle and makes it his own. he's his own hero. he is spider-man.

as for other cast comments, well, jake johnson is great as a somewhat deadbeat (but also jewish!!! such a bonus) peter b. parker. but of course my personal bias had me more drawn to chris pine's peter parker, who is essentially just chris in animation form. gosh, he really looks just like him. and pine's voice acting is incredible, i really wish he'd do more animated stuff. (like an rotg sequel or series!!!) i was a little underwhelmed by how surprisingly small john mulaney's role is in the film. it was fun, but so small. based on fan hype & responses, i kinda expected him to have more to do, but most of his lines were in the trailers. i actually kinda liked nic cage's spider-noir a bit more. he was really funny. (and cage is another actor who should do more voice over work. go watch the croods, y'all. and support its sequel, out next christmas!)

overall, itsv was a great movie and further makes me wish people would take animation more seriously. it's a gorgeous art form and a unique way to tell stories. i really prefer it over live-action stuff.

9/10.

[theblackdragon-studios]

I’ve been seeing a lot of Spidersonas recently thanks to “Into the Spider-verse”. It’s a great movie, my only complaint is they didn’t do much with the alternate universe characters. Aside from Gwen and of course Peter Parker...but so much emphasis was put on Spider-Ham by the fans, so I was a bit disappointed. Aside from that, really fun movie. I loved Miles and his interaction with Peter was really fun. Plus the art style! You don’t see it on the trailers that well, but I love the little detail of everything having comic book dots inside the lines. Like it’s a moving comic book, which is the feel. (Oh And let’s not forget the Stan Lee cameo they threw in like any Marvel movie should have. Well, had.)

Anyway, Spidersonas. I love all the ones I’ve seen and I had been thinking of doing my own. It’s not at all known, but I actually have a Marvel version of my sona already. This is the “if she was bitten by a radioactive spider” version.

About Dragon Spider:

The name was going to be Black Spider, since her normal hero name is Black Dragon, but that would just sound either offensive or confusing. Plus I think a Black Spider character already exists in canon...and I mean literally the name of this character is Black Spider. Not called that for the suit or skin color.

So Dragon Spider was the chosen name. It throws people off, and unless you see why she’s called that, you don’t know what it means. Because it’s exactly what it means. She’s a dragon...with Spidey Powers. Yep.

In her normal Marvel counterpart story, Meg was a normal girl that gets abducted by generic evil scientists like several Marvel characters...and they attempt to make her into a weapon. Again, not uncommon in that universe. I have this as one of her backstories in my normal headworld, but in Marvel the difference is her bones are mutated with the form change. Infused with Vibranium. This isn’t impossible, since true dragons are naturally born with metal bones of some kind. Vibranium may or may not have been one but they would be extinct by now.

Arkelm, a gold bone dragon, rescues her before she’s been there for too long and before the experiment is even proven a success. She later discovers it was, and is trained by Arkelm in the ways of the dragons. Dragons in that world being treasure hunters. The reason they take and horde artifacts and treasures isn’t because of greed, but to protect the world from those items. Kind of like Warehouse 13 but with dragons.

Eventually Meg begins to disagree with their way of only going after treasures, never actually helping the people hurt by them or by others using them. So she decides to do it herself. Yes, I know Doctor Strange and his story cover the ethereal and magical side of that universe, but who says they have to be the only ones? We have Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Avengers dealing with aliens and mutants and evil people in the normal plane after all. So, Black Dragon began life as a super hero.

Enough on the general story of her normal Marvel self though, this is on Dragon Spider. The suit is the same as her normal counterpart’s, but I added webbing to the gloves and an insignia on the chest like all Spider-people. Hers is her dragon form’s head with spider legs surrounding it. This doesn’t mean she has those legs in her dragon form. It’s just to help the Spider theme.

As for the arms, I was going to have her wear open-fingered gloves because I love those, and have exposed shoulders. Then I thought ‘nah...I want to stick to the point of Spider-Man’s philosophy: “Anyone can wear the mask”. This is shown especially well by how his whole body is covered. You don’t even see his skin tone. Not that it should be drawn that much attention to...but that is a good way of showing anyone can be the hero. Adding to the ambiguity of his design as Spider-Man.

She also has a hood...I know a lot of Spidersonas also have one (which is awesome), and of course Gwen does too, but so what? I wear hoodies all the time, so I incorporated that into the design. Dragon Spider and Black Dragon both have it. She also wears boots because I don’t like the idea of not having protective shoes. Even with a healing factor.

Her web is also black. If Venom is a known character in this universe, that has nothing to do with her. Except in the Venom arc if there is one...and if I recall, I don’t remember if Venom has black web either... Point being she just has black webs because I felt like it.

I may do a rough idea of her dragon form. In normal Marvel, it’s just BlackDragon but with a more fit build. Since after a while of doing this hero thing, she loses some weight. Not a lot, but it becomes mostly lean muscle from her crime fighting. Never loses the bit of paunch she has though. lol As Dragon Spider, I think she’ll be scaly instead of furry...actually no. Spiders are hairy... I’ll think of something to make different. Aside from maybe being smaller and without wings. Or wings for only gliding. Adding to the Spider element by having to climb walls in both forms.

[v-writings]

An Analysis of Peter and Tony’s interactions in Civil War

or Why Tony Should Have Never Been Peter’s Mentor in Homecoming

Since the release of Homecoming, I saw a lot of people freaking out over the “adorable” relationship between Peter and Tony in it and I honestly thought that once I finally watched it— if I considered it as something that happened in a vacuum and ignored the events of Civil War— I would have been able to see it as a bit sweet (at best). I waited to post this because I really went into the theater with hopes that the movie would offer me at least one short interaction that would make what happened during Civil War at least a little easier to stomach, but that never happened. Watching Homecoming only cemented the thoughts and opinions I already had on this matter.

My goal is to explain why I think that Peter and Tony’s interactions in Civil War and the things Tony did should have been more than enough reason for Peter to never see him again instead of showcasing him as a father figure. I will only cover Peter and Tony’s scenes during Civil War without taking into account any elements from Tony’s past or previous movies. This is about Peter. I only mention elements from Homecoming a couple of times when they are too relevant to ignore, and they have all already come out in trailers or movie clips.

Let’s begin.

The Meeting

Natasha: I have an idea. Tony: Me too. Where’s yours? […] Peter: What are you doing here? Tony: It’s about time we met. You’ve been getting my emails, right? [Tony winks, indicating Peter that he wants him to go with his lie. Within FIVE SECONDS of introducing himself to him, Tony is asking Peter to lie to his aunt for him. Unsurprisingly, Peter goes with it.] Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Tony: Right? Peter: Regarding the… May: You didn’t even tell me about the grant. Peter: About the grant. Tony: The September Foundation. Peter: Right. Tony: Yeah. Remember when you applied? Peter: Yeah. Tony: I approved, so now we’re in business. May: But you didn’t tell me anything. What’s up with that? You keeping secrets from me now? Peter: I just know how much you love surprises so I thought I would let you know… Anyway, what did I apply for? Tony: That’s what I’m here to hash out. Peter: Okay. Hash it out, okay. Tony: It’s so hard for me to believe that she’s someone’s aunt. May: Yeah, well, we come in all shapes and sizes, you know? Tony: This walnut date loaf is exceptional. Peter: Let me just stop you there. Tony: Yeah. Peter: Is this grant got money involved or whatever? No? Tony: Yeah, it’s pretty well funded. Peter: Yeah? Wow. Tony: Look who you’re talking to. Can I have five minutes with him? May: Sure.

There’s quite a lot to unpack here.

First:

Tony being charming and flirty towards May in order to gain her trust. Neither we as the audience or Peter know how long Tony has been talking to her before Peter arrives, but by the way the conversation is going and the fact that Tony has even been offered some meatloaf, I think it’s safe to say that it has been enough for May to be charmed by him. She’s excited about what this means for her nephew, of course: Tony Stark is a world famous genius and superhero and he’s here to tell Peter he’s been accepted for this grant he applied to in secret. She’s clearly proud of this accomplishment, and even though we don’t see it I would assume Tony has been complimenting Peter right and left and her for taking care of him in the process.

Second:

From the moment Tony introduces himself to the moment when he lies and winks at Peter so he’ll go with his lie a total amount of 5 seconds pass. I counted, and anyone can check.  I said before that Peter unsurprisingly went with it because, hey, Iron Man is currently sitting in his living room asking him to go with something and lying to his aunt; he doesn’t know why, but the fact that it’s the Tony Stark who is there and lying is more than enough for Peter to want to know the reason why he’s in his home and lying. But the fact that Tony immediately asks him to lie to his legal guardian, his aunt, for him is actually a very good indicator for how everything will unfold from this moment forward.

Third:

Peter interest in whatever money there is involved with this thing Tony is here for. I’m not saying this to judge him for it (because I’d ask the same), but because this is something that I will talk more about later when it comes to Tony’s presents and the role they play into Peter’s behavior towards him in the future.

Fourth:

The fact that Tony flirts and compliments May on her meatloaf right before asking her if he can be alone on a room with Peter, once again to get her to trust him enough to leave them alone together. What I get from that is that he feels compelled to do that because May shouldn’t trust him enough to leave him alone in a room with Peter (Tony clearly isn’t a pe**phile, but this is set in 2016 and leaving a 15 year old kid alone with a 50 year old man you know nothing about personally is never a good idea), especially with the door closed. But she does trust him enough to do that not only because Tony already buttered her up but also because this is Tony Stark and everyone knows Tony Stark. Except they don’t really know him, they just think they do.

Before we get into the bedroom scene, we should talk a little about how Tony got Peter’s personal information. It’s safe for us to assume from what we’re shown that just by seeing him on YouTube, Tony stalked him to find out at the very least his identity and where he lives—even though it’s very hard to believe that those are the only things he found out/intended to find out about him. We could even theorize that he probably has Peter’s whole background, May’s whole background, he knows about Ben and probably has his background as well, and he must know what happened to Peter’s parents; basically everything there is to know about Peter.

Stalking people is a crime, in case you didn’t remember. Not to mention the way he acquired that information is most likely also very illegal.

Now, let’s move on to the next scene.

First thing: Tony locks the door of Peter’s bedroom. I know some people will refuse to see this as a red flag because “Tony isn’t a bad guy and he wouldn’t do anything to Peter!” which ultimately is at least half-true because he didn’t do what one most commonly associate with a 50 year old man locking himself with a 15 year old in his bedroom, but he did end up kidnapping him, so…

I digress. The point is that there can only be two reasons why Tony locked the door of Peter’s bedroom:

To stop May from coming inside

To stop Peter from getting out

I am pretty sure the first one is the actual reason because Peter can simply unlock the door and get out, but May can’t open the door from the outside if she wants to. If you can’t see the problem with this let me spell it out for you: Tony came into Peter’s house and lied to his legal guardian in order to gain her trust (that’s literally what he did whether you want to call it that or not, it’s what happened) and then proceeded to lock himself up with her 15 year old nephew in his bedroom so she can’t get inside while he tells him whatever he wants to say to him.

You just… don’t do that. Those are things an adult should never do, for obvious reasons.

And now we move on to…

The Bedroom Scene

I already stated why I think Tony locking the door and getting May’s trust so she’ll leave him be alone with Peter in his room is incredibly fucked up, so let’s keep going. There will be a transcript of the entire scene because there are things to say about everything, so I will need all of it.

Tony: Whoa, what have we here? Retro tech, huh? Thrift store? Salvation Army? Peter: Uh, the garbage, actually. Tony: You’re a dumpster diver? Peter: Yeah, I was… Anyway, look, um, I definitely did not apply for your grant…

This can be categorized as very personal interpretation and I will accept anyone who disagrees with me on this because it’s only a few seconds, but the way Tony said “you’re a dumpster diver” seemed very pejorative. His tone and expression made him seem to be saying “Seriously? A dumpster diver?” However, this can also be taken as Tony saying it in the sense of “Seriously? A dumpster diver? You could be so much more than that” but the result is the same. Still pejorative.

Peter doesn’t have a lot of money and that’s the only way he found to access to that kind of technology. A world-famous billionaire just asked him if he’s a dumpster diver, and I really think that made him feel uncomfortable, if not self-conscious. He changes the subject, and it marks the first time Peter tries to figure out what Tony is here for, and also the first time Tony doesn’t answer.Another important thing it marks is Tony’s first (albeit subtle) remark about Peter not having enough resources.

Tony: Ah-ah! Me first. Peter: Okay. Tony: Quick question of the rhetorical variety. That’s you, right? Peter: Um, no. What do you mean? Tony: Yeah. Look at you go. Wow! Nice catch. 3,000 pounds, 40 miles an hour. That’s not easy. You got mad skills. Peter: That’s all on YouTube, though, right? That’s where you found that? Because you know that’s all fake. It’s all done on the computer. Tony: Mmm-hmm. Peter: It’s like that video. What is it? Tony: Yeah. Oh, you mean like those UFOs over Phoenix? Peter: Exactly.

Peter denies that he’s Spider-Man three times (first he says no, second he says the videos are fake and third he uses an example to support his previous statement that those videos are fake) during that exchange. He knows Tony knows, that’s obvious, but he doesn’t want him to know. At all. That’s made clear. He does not accept Tony’s words, he denies them repeatedly. And then— and I want to believe it was a coincidence and Tony just realized that Peter could be hiding his suit there instead of the alternative (that he knew for a fact that he was keeping the suit there, because him knowing that is a lot creepier)— Tony forces Peter to reveal to him that he is, in fact, Spider-Man.

Tony: Oh, what have we here? Peter: Uh… Tony: You’re the Spider-ling. Crime-fighting spider. You’re Spider-Boy? Peter: Spider-Man. Tony: Not in that onesie, you’re not. Peter: It’s not a onesie.

Now, not only Tony forces Peter to reveal himself but also ridicules him in the process. And once again we see that Peter didn’t want Tony to know. The moment he realizes what Tony did he jumps and immediately tries to hide the suit, even though they both know it’s already too late.

This marks the second time Tony makes it clear to Peter that he doesn’t have enough resources and what he has, what he’s done all by himself is plain bad and ridiculous. He calls Peter’s suit that he made for himself “a onesie”, to which Peter irritably responds “It’s not a onesie”. And he’s right, it’s not. Tony has no right to try and make him feel bad and inferior about what Peter has made for himself, because Peter is a 15 year old boy doing incredible things with what he can get. This was incredibly uncalled for. “You can’t expect to be called a man when you’re wearing that ridiculous suit” is basically what he just told him, plain and simple. We can definitely speculate that this is a suit that Peter maybe worked hard in making and was probably very proud of… that is, until Tony Stark appeared in his house and called it a onesie.

Peter: I don’t believe this. I was actually having a really good day today, Mr. Stark. Didn’t miss my train, this perfectly good DVD player was just sitting there… and Algebra test, nailed it.

The meaning behind this line is clear: Peter isn’t happy about what just happened. Saying that “he was actually having a really good day” implies that he isn’t anymore, which means that the thing Tony has said have made him upset or have ruined his good day. Tony completely ignores this.

Tony: Who else knows? Anybody? Peter: Nobody. Tony: Not even your unusually attractive aunt? Peter: No. No. No! If she knew, she would freak out. And when she freaks out, I freak out.

This part is very important. Peter doesn’t realize it and answers immediately, but this answer gives Tony a lot of power over him. Nobody but Tony knows that Peter is Spider-Man, and Aunt May can’t know especially, because she’d freak out.

You can’t say that Tony didn’t ask this question in hopes of gaining this power, because in the future he uses it against Peter to get him to follow his order, but we’ll get into that later.

Also, Tony absorbs this information and says nothing in response— as a matter of fact, he changes the subject.

Tony: You know what I think is really cool? This webbing. That tensile strength is off the charts. Who manufactured that? Peter: I did. Tony: Climbing walls, how you doing that? Adhesive gloves? Peter: It’s a long story. I was…

Honestly I can’t really tell if he secretly knew Peter had manufactured the web or he was actually surprised when Peter told him he had. Either way, asking that question in the way he did implies that he didn’t think Peter had been capable of doing it for himself; whether he actually knew is kind of irrelevant. This can be taken as a compliment, but it actually isn’t. It’s an insult disguised as a compliment. It can be taken as a compliment in the sense that Tony is impressed by it and says it’s amazing, but him underestimating Peter and not asking him “you manufactured this?” or something like it instead and just assuming someone else had done it actually implies that Tony doesn’t think Peter is capable of that. That’s clearly not something positive.

Tony: Lordy! Can you even see in these? Peter: Yes, I can. Tony: I’m blind! Peter: I can see in those, okay? It’s just that when whatever happened, happened… it’s like my senses have been dialed to 11. There’s way too much input, so they just kinda help me focus.

And after the insult disguised as a compliment comes… another case of ridicule. Tony makes fun of Peter’s goggles and acts like they’re ridiculous and don’t work, which is basically the same as what happens when someone with 20/20 vision puts on the glasses of someone with less than perfect eyesight and asks them “you can see with these?”. Of course they can. Just because they don’t work for you doesn’t mean they don’t work for the person who actually wears them. And Peter clearly made these all by himself: he had a problem, which was too much input, and he resolved it the best he could.

This is something to be in awe of, not something to make fun of. He’s a 15 year old kid who’s been doing all of this in secret, all by himself.

Tony: You’re in dire need of an upgrade. Systemic, top to bottom, hundred-point restoration. That’s why I’m here.

Okay, I actually have to separate this particular line from the rest because of how heavy it is. This is what this entire conversation has been building up to. This is why Tony said “you’re a dumpster diver?”, “Not in that onesie you’re not” and “Lordy! Can you even see in these?”. He’s been building up to this exactmoment.

The moment when he lets Peter know that Peter needs him.

Peter can’t truly be Spider-Man with that ridiculous suit, with those ridiculous goggles! And Tony is here to alleviate him from his problems, to give him what he truly needs to achieve his maximum potential. Without Tony, Peter will neverbe good enough. In that onesie, he will never truly be Spider-Man. So, Peter needs him.

Except… he doesn’t. He literally doesn’t. One of the most famous aspects of the Spider-Man character is that Peter builds everything for himself by himself. I can’t say I’m surprised that Marvel chose to shoehorn Tony into Peter’s story and made him the one who actually gave him his suit when it was unnecessary, but that’s not the point of what I’m writing. The point is that Tony intentionally decreased the value of everything Peter has been doing for himself up until that point to make him believe that he needs him. And why? Because Peter “needing” him gives him leverage. Giving him a very expensive and high-tech suit means that Peter owes him something in return.

And what could that possibly be?

Maybe it’s something like Peter fighting on his side without even knowing what he’s fighting for. Who knows?

Not to mention the fact that he downright lied to him, or at least half-lied. He is here to “upgrade his suit” but that’s not the only reason why, and he’s definitelynot doing it out of the goodness of his philanthropist heart.

Tony is not here to improve Peter’s suit only because he saw his potential and decided that he deserved an upgrade Peter would be unable to afford otherwise, he’s here to improve Peter’s suit in order to make him more reliable in the fight against Captain America, which is something Peter has no clue about yet. Tony still hasn’t told him the real reason why he’s here.

Tony: Why you doing this? I gotta know, what’s your MO? What gets you outta that twin bed in the morning? Peter: Because… Because I’ve been me my whole life, and I’ve had these powers for six months. Tony: Mmm-hmm. Peter: I read books, I build computers. Yeah, I would love to play football, but I couldn’t then, so I shouldn’t now. Tony: Sure, because you’re different. Peter: Exactly. But I can’t tell anybody that, so I’m not. When you can do the things that I can, but you don’t… and then the bad things happen… they happen because of you. Tony: So you wanna look out for the little guy, you wanna do your part? Make the world a better place, all that, right? Peter: Yeah, just looking out for the little guy. That’s what it is.

God, this scene. Kudos to Tom for pulling it off so amazingly, honestly. Peter’s raw vulnerability can be felt, and it’s that vulnerability which makes this scene a lot worse to stomach for me. Peter’s openness as to why he’s doing what he’s doing is a display of trust towards Tony on his part, which is… horrible to witness. He doesn’t truly know why Tony is here, he doesn’t know Tony wants to take him away to Germany to fight against super-soldiers and super-powered people, he doesn’t know Tony is selfishly willing to let him get hurt on his behalf without even telling him what he’s fighting for… and Peter is being so completely honest to him. And his honesty, based on the questions Tony asks, is something that Tony uses against him. Tony “understanding” what Peter is trying to say and Peter’s eagerness when he realizes that Tony gets it is incredibly sad to watch because it’s what Tony uses to get Peter to do what he wants.

“Hey, kid, I get what you’re saying. I understand what you’re trying to do. Come with me to Germany and I’ll promise you’ll be doing exactly what you want to do.”

But he won’t be.

Peter is fighting for a cause he knows nothing about, and I will repeat this as many times as necessary so no one forgets. A 50 year old man kidnapped a child, brought him into a fight he told him nothing about to make sure he didn’t switch sides if he actually understood what was going on like everyone else involved, and let him get hurt on his behalf.

Do I even need to say anything else?

And now… the final part of this scene.

Tony: I’m gonna sit here, so you move the leg. You got a passport? Peter: No, I don’t even have a driver’s license. Tony: You ever been to Germany? Peter: No. Tony: Oh, you’ll love it. Peter: I can’t go to Germany. Tony: Why? Peter: I got homework. Tony: I’m gonna pretend you didn’t say that. Peter: No, I’m being serious. I can’t just drop out of school. Tony: Might be a little dangerous. Better tell Aunt Hottie I’m taking you on a field trip. Peter: Don’t tell Aunt May. Tony: All right, Spider-Man.

I have to be honest right now. Up until that point I had actually misunderstood this scene. I don’t know if it was because I didn’t remember it or I had processed it differently given Peter’s reaction and the fact that the sound of the web shooter actually kind of drowns the ending of the sentence, but I’m pretty sure I never realized Tony said “I’m taking you on a field trip.”

This actually changes what I originally thought about this scene… but that is not a good thing.

Before rewatching it for this I had only taken into account this part of the exchange:

Tony: Might be a little dangerous. Better tell Aunt Hottie… Peter: Don’t tell Aunt May.

I actually believed that Tony was threatening Peter, that he was acting like he was going to open that door and tell May that Peter was actually Spider-Man unless Peter agreed to go with him to Germany, especially because that seems to be what Peter believes is happening.

But it’s not.

Tony never even gives Peter a choice. Peter tells Tony NO two times, and Tony completely ignores him. And not only ignores him, he once again ridicules him for saying he has homework to do, so he can’t go to Germany.

This, by the way, is a completely valid reason given the fact that he’s a 15 year old. He cares about school like he’s supposed to, and this shows that he’s a very responsible kid. Not that we needed him to say that in order to know he’s responsible regarding school; we already know he’s a very good and smart student.

Just… let me go back and repeat what I said earlier.

Peter tells Tony NO twice.

Peter does not give his consent.

Peter: “No, I’m being serious. I can’t just drop out of school.”

He knows Tony didn’t take him seriously so he repeats himself: he said no to going with him.

Tony doesn’t like this answer so he ignores him, and not only ignores him but keeps talking like it’s already decided that Peter is coming with him:

Tony: “Might be a little dangerous. Better tell Aunt Hottie I’m taking you on a field trip.”

He knows May would never agree to it so he once again tells Peter he needs to lie to her with him, and he does it like it’s no big deal. “Hey, kid! It’s okay to lie to your aunt for me, come on! You’ve been lying to her already so what’s another lie gonna do?”

Peter did not give his consent, but that doesn’t matter. Why? Because Tony Stark is Tony Stark. A genius, billionaire, playboy and philanthropist who alwaysgets what he wants.

Now, I think I have to assume that the moment Peter heard “Beter tell Aunt Hottie” he immediately thought he was going to tell May his secret, just like I did, and that’s why he reacted like that. It’s implied that he later agreed to Tony’s proposition given the fact that he ultimately travels with him to Germany, but I can’t help but want to know for sure if he did because he thought Tony was going to tell May if he didn’t.

Whether that’s the case or not, the scene ends without Peter giving his consent, and the next time we see him he’s already in Germany. We’re left to wonder if he ever said yes (even if he did it would still be kidnapping) or if Tony just… took him without his explicit consent (once again, even with it it’s still kidnapping). The fact that no one thought it was important to have Peter agree enthusiastically to this is frankly horrifying.

And talking about Peter’s enthusiasm…

The Flight and the Fight

You know… just for the fun of it I went and googled “New York kidnapping laws” and here’s what I found, in case you think I’m using the world lightly:

“The New York Penal Law’s definition of the crime of kidnapping is succinct: a person commits the offense when he “abducts another person.” Additional details about New York kidnapping laws are listed in the table below.

[…]

What it Means to “Confine without Consent”

A person is moved or confined “without consent” when the movement or confinement is accomplished by:

Physical force, intimidation or deception, or

Any means, including with the victim’s consent, if the latter is a child less than sixteen years old or an incompetent person and the parent, guardian or other person legally responsible for him or her did not consent to the movement or confinement.”

Source

Oxford Dictionary definition of “deceive”: Deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain.

Or: exactly what Tony did. Deceived Peter and took him away to Germany without May’s consent in order to get him to fight for him for something Peter had no knowledge of.

“But May consented!” You might think, and the truth is that she absolutely didn’t. It’s implied that she consented given the fact that Peter left, but she consented to him leaving for an internship or field trip or whatever, not to fight as Spider-Man against a group of very dangerous and skilled people. So, no.  Tony did not have the consent of Peter’s guardian, and he deceived him (and her too, for that matter) because he didn’t tell her why he was going to Germany. I mean it, he literally didn’t tell him anything:

Peter: No one’s actually told me why I’m in Berlin. Or what I’m doing. Something about Captain America going crazy. [From the Civil War Vlog/a Film by Peter Parker]

And let’s not forget this terrifying exchange:

Steve: Look, kid, there’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand. Peter: Mr. Stark said you’d say that. Wow. He also said to go for your legs. […] Steve: Stark tell you anything else? Peter: That you’re wrong. You think you’re right. That makes you dangerous.

Okay, so, let’s analyze this. Tony didn’t tell Peter shit about why he was going to fight and risk his life for him except that “Captain America went crazy”, and then the only thing that told him was that he was wrong and that Steve was going to tell him that there were a lot of things he didn’t understand, and clearly to not pay attention to Steve. And also apparently his direction to Peter was that he should “keep his distance and web them up” which he didn’t follow, at all. Obviously. He’s a 15 year old kid who’s had powers for six months and this was his first actual Super Hero Fight™, and he fought side by side with Iron Man. He was never going to follow that direction.

Steve hit the nail on the head when he told him that there was a lot going on that he didn’t understand, and the biggest example of this is Peter’s pure and innocent excitement during the fight. He doesn’t truly realize how dangerous it is, he doesn’t realize what’s at stake (how could he? He knows literally nothing about what’s going on) and even when facing the fucking Winter Soldier his reaction was the most child-like he could’ve possibly had. He obviously doesn’t understand what’s happening there, and Tony knew this perfectly.

I am speculating on this, but I can see that conversation going in the sense of Tony telling Peter that Steve will underestimate him, that he just wants him to stop fighting because Peter is a threat to him but it’s not true, Peter understands: Steve is wrong and Tony is right. That’s what Tony said and because he said it’s the truth. Why would he lie? Why would he hide important information from Peter? Tony recruited Peter and even gave him an amazing, super-expensive, high-tech suit! Out of all people, Tony fucking Stark chose Peter. Peter believes anything Tony says, because he knows absolutely nothing about what’s happening and has no reason to believe Tony would lie to him.

And also that line… “That you’re wrong. You think you’re right. That makes you dangerous.” I really want to believe it was intentional because I immediately applied it to Tony. Whether you think he’s wrong or right is up to you but even if you think he’s right, part of that sentence can still be easily applied to him: he thinks he’s right, and that makes him dangerous. Dangerous enough that he recklessly kidnapped a minor and took him to a fight he had no business in, and got him hurt.

By the time Peter stops fighting, he’s hurt. He’s been hurt repeatedly by the people on Steve’s side.

“But Peter wanted to go! He was so excited!” This is debatable, given the fact that Peter said no twice, and Tony completely ignored him. But because we’ve been given the Civil War Vlog where he’s seen as incredibly excited and enjoying himself, let’s say that he did want to go, because that’s what it seems like it.

Let’s assume that he consented off camera, because that’s more or less what’s been implied. Once again: that doesn’t really matter because Peter isn’t in a position where he can give consent due to his young age, and Tony did not have the consent of his legal guardian.

The truth is that I’m not surprised at all that he wanted to go once (I assume) Tony told him everything he was going to get to do. He’s a 15 year old boy and Tony Stark just appeared in his house and invited him to go to Germany to do Real Superhero Stuff™, and he even got to fly on his private jet! He hadn’t even flown on a plane before!  It was practically a vacation!

Of course he wanted to go.

But there’s a reason why the law says “a child less than sixteen” and is because Peter is unable to fully consent at that age. He’s young and is starstruck by Tony, and that makes him easy to manipulate. No matter how many bad guys he’s caught, what he’s seen, he’s still a kid. A kid awestruck by one of the nation’s most famous geniuses who also happens to be an Avenger, so essentially Tony is a fucking rock star to him.  He offered Peter things he’d never had the chance to afford or experience before because he’s a billionaire and a superhero.

Of course he fucking wanted to go.

Like I said before, there’s nothing more telling than Peter’s reaction to the entire fight sequence. He truly doesn’t understand, he thinks this is a game. The fact that he filmed everything and himself even during the fight only reinforces this idea. To me, this was amazing characterization. I have nothing to say about this because everything makes perfect sense. Everything that Peter does and the way he reacts to things are exactly what they’re supposed to be. Peter acts like the 15 year old he is, which only makes him be even more out of place in the fight.

Sure, there was the occasional comic relief during the scene, but we shouldn’t forget that this fight was about something serious. Even the king of Wakanda was there to murder Bucky. It wasn’t a game, but Peter didn’t understand that.

There was a lot going on there that he didn’t understand.

The way he said hi to everyone, telling Steve he was his fan, his video in the hotel room after the fight and how excited he is to tell what happened… everything is proof of how little he understood. How he tells Sam “you have the right to remain silent” which I don’t know if he did as a joke (which further proves that he thinks this is a game) or he said it seriously because it’s something he saw in movies or shows or he simply knows the Miranda Warning and thought it would be appropriate (which further proves how much he doesn’t understand about what’s happening).

Even after the fight he still had no idea what truly was going on there.

He couldn’t have known, because no one told him anything.

Tony knew that Steve was going to say that because it was the truth, so he had to warn Peter to not listen to him, and it worked.

Also, let’s not forget that when Tony is asked about Peter’s age because they realize he’s young because of the way he talks about Star Wars, Tony refuses to answer. He knows how old Peter is, you can’t argue that. He knew where he lived and suddenly he doesn’t know his age? Of course this is bullshit and Tony withholds this information because he knows he’s going to get judged by bringing a 15 year old into this incredibly dangerous fight. So he lies and says he doesn’t know— that he only knows he’s “on the younger side”. By this reply the others will want to believe that Peter is at least 18 years old, and probably won’t ask more questions about it, at least for the remainder of the fight, because who the hell brings a 15 year old into a fight with highly trained soldiers, assassins and super-powered people? One of those being none other than Wanda Maximoff, who Tony himself called “a weapon of mass destruction”:

Tony: She’s not a US citizen. Steve: Oh, come on, Tony. Tony: And they don’t grant visas to weapons of mass destruction.

By the time they take Ant-Man down, he accidentally hits Peter with his hand and sends him flying away, knocking him out cold. And allow me to remind you about what happens next if you don’t remember.

Tony flies to where Peter is and finds him on the ground, unmoving, and you can see it in his face that he thinks Peter could be dead.

Of course we know he was never going to be dead; this was just the introduction of his character and he was going to be fine, but that’s not the point.

In the movie, in Tony’s mind, it was a real possibility that Peter was dead.

Even if Ant-Man was the one who landed the blow, it would’ve been Tony who had killed him. Because Tony is the one who brought him into the fight without actually telling him how dangerous it was, while knowing how dangerous it was. Now, let me repeat that these are fictional characters and they think what the writers want them to think, of course, but given the situation it’s not farfetched to think that Tony was worrying about what the fuck was he going to do if Peter had died on his watch. How was he going to explain it to May?

“But he told Peter to go home because he cares about him and doesn’t want him to get hurt!” While I think he actually cared about his wellbeing (to some degree), that’s not the reason why he did it and it’s also not as much of a beautiful act as so many people would like to believe. He is the one who actually brought him here fully aware that he could get hurt and he didn’t care. I’d believe that if this was a completely different movie where Peter came out here on his own and Tony got worried when he got hurt and told him to go home, but this wasn’t that movie. Tony kidnapped him and the only reason why he’s telling him to go home because “he’s done” is because five seconds earlier he thought Peter was dead. This made him realize that if Peter kept fighting it was very possible that he’d get fatally wounded, or downright killed. And while I think he obviously didn’t want Peter to get more hurt or killed, he mostly did it because of the repercussions his death would have. Up until the moment when Tony thought he could be dead, he didn’t care that Peter was being thrown out of windows or slammed against trucks because he kept getting up immediately… until the moment he didn’t anymore.

And when Peter wants to keep fighting, he uses the power he has over Peter to make him obey. He tells him that he’s going to tell Aunt May if he doesn’t leave.

Peter, given the fact that he’s hurt and tired and definitely can’t think clearly, doesn’t realize how empty that threat is. What is Tony going to do? Call May and tell her “Hey May, I actually lied to you and brought your 15 year old nephew who is Spider-Man into a fight against Captain America and the Winter soldier and a bunch of other people who could kill him and now he’s too hurt to keep fighting but he wants to keep going, so… I’m calling you so you stop him.”

Of course not. But Peter doesn’t realize that and he does as told.

Tony knows what he did isn’t okay, he knew before even doing it but that doesn’t matter because he wanted to do it, he needed Peter for selfish reasons and that’s enough for him. Knowing that it was wrong or that he shouldn’t do it was never going to stop him. Peter said no twice but Tony wanted him to be on his team, so he took him with him anyway and showered him with privileges and gifts that had Peter practically running on the walls from excitement. Gifts that made Peter feel grateful and in debt to Tony.

If you don’t think this is true:

Tony: Nice job, kid. Peter: Thanks. I could have stuck the landing a little better, it’s just… New suit. [Stammers nervously when he realizes what he said] It’s nothing, Mr. Stark. It’s perfect. Thank you.

I’m not reading too much into this, I promise. The fact that Peter immediately regretted saying something even remotely bad about the suit and corrected himself and said it was perfect shows that he doesn’t feel he has a right to complain, because Tony was so good to him and gave him something so amazing that if he says something as insignificant as not being able to land perfectly yet because it’s a new suit makes him feel like he’s being ungrateful.

Which leads me to the end of this post:

Tony’s gifts to Peter/Reciprocity

First, let me give you the Wikipedia definition of reciprocity:

“In social psychology, reciprocity is a social rule that says people should repay, in kind, what another person has provided for them; that is, people give back (reciprocate) the kind of treatment they have received from another. By virtue of the rule of reciprocity, people are obligated to repay favors, gifts, invitations, etc. in the future. […]

A person who violates the reciprocity norm by accepting without attempting to return the good acts of others is disliked by the social group.”

I said before that Tony made Peter believe that he needed him to make him a new suit in order to gain leverage on him, and this is it. To quote myself:

“Giving him a very expensive and high-tech suit means that Peter owes him something in return.”

Every single thing that Tony gives to Peter as a “gift” only serves to make Peter owe him more.  Peter can’t and won’t tell Tony no after everything he’s done for him— that would be awful. Tony has done so many good things to help Peter become a better version of himself; he took him to Germany in his private jet, gave him everything he needed, built him this amazing suit Peter would’ve never been able to afford… how can he say no without feeling guilty? Without being ungrateful when Tony has been so good to him?

This is the leverage. The social rule of reciprocity and Peter’s need to repay him somehow.

But I have to say, given what we’ve seen of Peter and his absolute excitement about the fight… I don’t think he would’ve said no, especially after he saw his new suit and was probably desperate to try it on. He’s clearly not capacitated to make an informed decision; I said before that Peter viewed the entire thing as a game. Still, that’s irrelevant. Tony’s intentions don’t suddenly change or should be ignored just because Peter “had fun” during the fight.

To further prove my point: there is one scene during Homecoming where Tony decides that Peter isn’t doing what Tony told him he’s supposed to, and he takes the suit away from him.

Tony: I’m gonna need the suit back. Peter: But I’m nothing without the suit. Tony: If you’re nothing without the suit, then you shouldn’t have it.

Okay, let me explain this a little bit. During Civil War, Tony made Peter believe he needed him in order to truly become Spider-Man because he was the only one who could provide him with a real suit, because “not in that onesie you’re not.”

This is something Tony said to Peter himself. In Peter’s original suit, Peter is not Spider-Man. Only in the suit that Tony built him he can truly be Spider-Man.

And now he tells him that if he’s nothing without the suit he shouldn’t have it? After he told him he was not Spider-Man without the better suit he was going to make him?

…Yeah.

And that’s not the only problem with this particular interaction, the fact that Tony can ask for the suit back whenever he wants means that Peter’s suit was never actually his.  Sure, Tony gave it to him and told him it was a gift but this shows that this wasn’t true, because if it had then Tony would not be able to take it back.

Tony can take it from him whenever he wants to because:

He holds a lot of power over Peter. If he presses enough, Peter is going to relent.

The suit was never truly Peter’s. He didn’t even help to make it, or pay for it. It’s just something Tony lent him and he doesn’t have a right to act like it’s his now that Tony wants it back, even if Tony said it was a gift.

Tony knows better because he’s more experienced, therefore Peter has to obey.

All of this is horrible in its own terms, but it’s what I got from that interaction. And added to this is the fact that he put special features on the suit that are currently locked because of a “training wheels protocol”, which also means that the suit isn’t truly his. Tony has a huge amount of control over it, and therefore, over Peter.

This is not surprising, and seeing how Tony has acted towards Peter from the beginning. It only makes sense that he’d want to keep controlling him and showcasing the power he holds over him whenever he sees fit.

Look, I get that some people are happy that Tony gets his chance to be a father figure after fucking up and having a shitty father himself, but he does not get to use Peter as his lab rat for his redemption experiment. He does not get to make mistakes with Peter just because he’s “trying” to be a mentor and a “better, more responsible person” or “better than his dad”. Tony isn’t Peter’s father or legal guardian and he barely even knows him, therefore he has no right to make a decision of that magnitude.

Even though I am a firm believer that Tony’s presence in Homecoming was unnecessary, I can sort of see why people would want to see his relationship with Peter. But please, don’t forget about what happened before that movie. Don’t forget that because these are fictional characters and not real people, every single thing they do is written by people like you or me, which means that if their goal was to make this relationship look “cute”, they intentionally wrote it and showed it like that so people would perceive it that way. But ignoring everything that led Tony and Peter up to this point and pretend like Tony did nothing wrong just because people want to see him as a father figure might be something to reconsider.

Do I think everything I got from their scenes was the writer’s intention? Absolutely not. Actually, I’m more inclined to believe that it was the opposite: I think they never even realized how bad it would look, or how inexcusable what Tony did was. But that’s the problem— the fact that people who wrote those scenes don’t think there is something wrong with what Tony did doesn’t mean that there isn’t anything wrong. Intent and result don’t always end up being the same thing. “It wasn’t meant to be taken that way, that’s not what they were trying to show!” I don’t care, that’s how it turned out.

I felt that something was wrong with their relationship from the moment I saw Civil War, but the fact that so many people didn’t and still don’t tells me that what may seem obvious to me isn’t as obvious for others, or they simply choose to ignore it because they don’t care, which is fine. Everyone is entitled to do whatever they want. But ignoring something isn’t the same as not seeing something, and I wanted to write this just in case there were people out there who maybe thought there was something off about their interactions but couldn’t put it into words. I know there will be people who won’t agree with me— hell, maybe everyone will think I’m wrong— but I want this to be out there because maybe there is someone like me who will type “peter parker kidnapped civil war” into the Google search bar in hopes of finding everyone talking about how wrong what Tony did was, only to discover that in reality there’s only one article talking about it.

[13flowersandfoxes]

1-169 because I saw your tag and I'm a reasonable man

1: How tall or short do you wish you were?Idk I like being tall until there are no tall guys who want to date me 
2: What’s your dream pet? (Real or not)Does that include realistically? Cause I'd love to have a fox or a snow leopard but foxes are expensive and there's no domestic snow leopards I've heard of. 
3: Do you have a favorite clothing style?I just wear what strikes me. I'm kinda all over the place style wise but I'm very true to myself. 
4: What was your favorite video game growing up?Soul Calibur II
5: What three things/people do you think of most each day:My best friend, my cat, food?
6: If you had a warning label, what would yours say?Crazy bitch approach with caution
7: What is your opinion on [insert person/thing here]?
8: What is your Greek personality type? [Sanguine, Phlegmatic, Choleric, or Melancholic]I don't remember these well enough to say
9: Are you ticklish?... 
10: Are you allergic to anything?Morphine 
11: What’s your sexuality?Bi
12: Do you prefer tea, coffee, or cocoa?Not coffee
13: Are you a cat or dog person?Both
14: Would you rather be a vampire, elf, or merperson?Elf. Especially a Tolkien elf. 
15: Do you have a favorite Youtuber?Not really
16: How tall are you?5'11
17: If you had to change your name, what would you change it to?Billie
18: How much do you weigh? [Only ask this if you know the user doesn’t mind!]250
19: Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?In a way yes
20: Do you like space or the ocean more?Ocean. But both scare me in a way 
21: Are you religious?Yes
22: Pet peeves?People chewing loud or leaving cabinets open
23: Would you rather be nocturnal or diurnal [opposite of nocturnal]?Nocturnal 
24: Favorite constellation?Orion
25: Favorite star?Betelgeuse 
26: Do you like ball-jointed dolls?No
27: Any phobias or fears?Being alone
28: Do you think global warming is real?Believe pollution is an issue. But not sure I trust politicians and scientists with an agenda when other scientists are saying they are wrong. And they're trying to say they're stupid or crazy or should be killed for disagreeing. I just have a hard time trusting that people who do that are actually right. 
29: Do you believe in reincarnation?No
30: Favorite movie??
31: Do you get scared easily?No
32: How many pets have you own in your lifetime?3
33: Blog rate? [You’ll rate the blog of the one who’s asking.]7
34: What is a color that calms you?Green 
35: Where would you like to travel and/or live?Germany 
36: Where were you born?California 
37: What is your eye color?Green
38: Introvert or extrovert?Introvert
39: Do you believe in horoscopes and zodiacs?No but I think they're harmless fun. I don't get why some people freak out like they're so bad to talk about hypothetically. I just think it's fun. 
40: Hugs or kisses?Both. Both is good
41: Who is someone you would like to see/visit right now?My cat and my best friend(s). And that's gonna be happening soon as I'm on the plane right now. 
42: Who is someone you love deeply?My cat :P
43: Any piercings you want?Not really. Maybe my lobes. 
44: Do you like tattoos and piercings?Not excessively. But I love beautiful pieces of art and can really appreciate the art that goes into both. 
45: Do you smoke or have you eiver done so?No
46: Talk about your crush, if you have one!Ugh he's a writer loves cats one of my best friends, a little eccentric, and he's genuinely understanding. We've both gone through some hard shit and we trust each other in that
47: What is a sound you really hate?Coughing. People talking obnoxiously loud in public places that are generally quiet. I can't think of anything more specific okay I'm on a plane right now. 
48: A sound you really love?My cat. Also my aunts cat cause he can't meow right he sounds like a dying squeaky toy and I can't stop laughing
49: Can you do a backflip?No
50: Can you do the splits?Almost
51: Favorite actor and/or actress?Dunno. Like Winona Ryder and Angelina Jolie to name a couple random ones. 
52: Favorite movie?Too manyyyy
53: How are you feeling right now?Tired and a little dizzy. I have a headache right now :(
54: What color would you like your hair to be right now?I'm happy with it being red. I'd like it to look slightly more orange though
55: When did you feel happiest?I'm not sure. Happy things seem tainted now. 
56: Something that calms you down?Animals 
57: Have any mental disorders? [Only ask this if you know the user doesn’t mind!]Bpd, possibly along with bipolar type 2 as suspected by my psychiatrist. 
58: What does your URL mean?I feel like I was something that had potential to be beautiful and good but it's just broken and painful now. 
59: What three words describe you the most?Crazy. Weird. Catlike. 
60: Do you believe in evolution?Yes. 
61: What makes you unfollow a blog?Being constantly douchey, or just annoying the shit out of me. I'm pretty nice though generally, I follow all sorts of people and I tend to like having variety in who I follow so I don't feel like I'm hearing the same shit over and over. It's a bit dull
62: What makes you follow a blog?Interesting content. Seems nice. Especially if they follow me first 
63: Favorite kind of person:Idk someone nice and funny that I can talk to easily. 
64: Favorite animal(s):I've said this so many times lol
65: Name three of your favorite blogs.Kellyann Saint Louis???
66: Favorite emoticon:💜💜💜💜 or 😊😊
67: Favorite meme:I miss the bad audition songs one. But I do have a special place in my heart for screencaps+tumblr posts/onion articles 
68: What is your MBTI personality type?Infj
69: What is your star sign?Sagittarius 
70: Can your dog roll over on command, if you have a dog?Nope. She can sit and that's about it. She's not very bright. 
71: What outfit out of all your clothes do you like to wear the most?Jeans and floral/sheer top
72: Post a selfie or two?Make separate post
73: Do you have platform shoes?Yeah
74: What is one random but interesting fact about yourself?I have webbed toes
75: Can you do a front flip?No
76: Do you like birds?To look at, but I probably wouldn't ever have one as a pet
77: Do you like to swim?Yes
78: Is swimming or ice skating more fun to you?Swimming cause I'm very new to ice skating I've done it twice and once was on crappy skates that really hurt my feet. The other time I was doing circles okay following the wall
79: Something you wish didn’t exist:The dark shit I've seen on here
80: Some thing you wish did exist:A special hell for people who do that shit
81: Piercings you have?My daiths
82: Something you really enjoy doing:Cooking sometimes
83: Favorite person to talk to:My best friend 
84: What was your first impression of Tumblr?Well I remember in middle school when it was brand new everyone was getting one and I tried it and I was just like How the Fuck do I do anything then the next time I had heard Things and knew somewhat what to expect 
85: How many followers do you have?280 ish
86: Can you run a mile within ten minutes? Lol no
87: Do your socks always match?I'm wearing one sock with cats and one black sock. Does that answer that well enough for you? Lol
88: Can you touch your toes and keep your legs straight completely?I think so I don't remember 
89: What are your birthstones?Topaz
90: If you were an animal, which one would you be?My friend used to say I'm part cat. Maybe fox cause they're basically half cat half dog. 
91: If a flower could aesthetically represent you, what kind would it be?Orchid
92: A store you hate?Torrid cause I spend way too much shopping there I can't walk in without buying something 
93: How many cups of coffee can you drink in one day?0
94: Would you rather be able to fly or read minds?Fly
95: Do you like to wear camo?No
96: Winter or summer?Winter
97: How long can you hold your breath for??
98: Least favorite person?This nightmarish girl who was homeschooled and was like a fundie Christian Mormon afraid of doctors and lesbians and gum and Twinkies (im literally not exaggerating) and was just loud and obnoxious and annoying in high school. 
99: Someone you look up to:Not sure. 
100: A store you love?Torrid
101: Favorite type of shoesOxfords
102: Where do you live?Utah
103: Are you a vegetarian or vegan? If so, why?No
104: What is your favorite mineral or gem?Amethyst. Also there's this green stone I have somewhere in my house I got from a roadside shop in Zion it's so pretty it's like quartz looking. I can't remember what it was. But it's pretty 
105: Do you drink milk?Not really
106: Do you like bugs?Not particularly 
107: Do you like spiders?^^^^
108: Something you get paranoid about?People hating me/being bothered by me
109: Can you draw:No
110: Nosiest question you have ever been asked?Got an anon once I deleted asking my favorite things to do when I'm having sex. That was probably it that wasn't called for. 
111: A question you hate being asked?"Are you working or in school right now?"
112: Ever been bitten by a spider?Maybe. Woken up with lots of bug bites in my day, most all of them mosquitoes but some not
113: Do you like the sound of waves at the beach?Yeah
114: Do you prefer cloudy or sunny days?Cloudy
115: Someone you’d like to kiss or cuddle right now:Idk
116: Favorite cloud type:? I just like clouds
117: What color do you wish the sky was?Idk I'm fine with it being blue but I like purple sunsets
118: Do you have freckles?No :(
119: Favorite thing about a person:Eyes or the sort of things they find funny
120: Fruits or vegetables?Fruits
121: Something you want to do right now:See my damn cat
122: Is the ocean or sky prettier?Yes
123: Sweet or sour foods?Spicy
124: Bright or dim lights?Depends 
125: Do you believe in a certain magical creature?No
126: Something you hate about Tumblr:People
127: Something you love about Tumblr:People
128: What do you think about the least?? If I thought about it then it wouldn't be thought of least
129: What would you want written on your tombstone?Not sure. I'm tempted to go with something morbid like memento mori just to be a little shit forever
130: Who would you like to punch in the face right now?Idk
131: What is something you love but also hate about yourself?My boobs
132: Do you smile with your teeth showing for pictures?I try not to. But I end up looking angry
133: Computer or TV?Both
134: Do you like roller coasters?Yeah
135: Do you get motion sickness or seasickness?Yes
136: Are your ears lobed or attached?Lobed
137: Do you believe in karma?No
138: On a scale of 1-10, how attractive would you say you are?5
139: What nicknames do you have/have had?I have one friend who used to call me Hanukkah, then brosef calls me hanners 
140: Did you have any pretend or imaginary friends?No
141: Have you ever seen a therapist/shrink?Lol yes
142: Would you say you are a good or bad influence to others?Idk I try to be a good influence but some people's parents have said I'm bad .... so idk
143: Do you prefer giving or receiving gifts/help?Both!
144: What makes you angryIdk just bullshit lol
145: How many languages do you speak fluently?1
146: Do you prefer boys, girls, and/or non-binaries?Boys
147: Are you androgynous?Nope
148: Favorite physical thing about yourself:Eyes or lips
149: Favorite thing about your personality:Idk I'm friendly
150: Name three people you would like to talk to right now in person.My best friend, my girl best friend, and ?? My sister maybe
151: If you could go back into time and live in one era, which would you choose?I can't choooooose
152: Do you like BuzzFeed?For dumb little shit like dog stuff or "boys try this" yeah I think it's fun but if you think it's actually journalism you're sorely mistaken
153: How did you meet your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/partner? [If you have one.]
154: Do you like to kiss others’ foreheads or hands for platonic reasons?No. cheeks yes. 
155: Do you like to play with others’ hair?Yes
156: What embarrasses you?Lots of things. 
157: Something that makes you nervous/anxious:Talking to people. 
158: Biggest lie you have ever told:Idk
159: How many people are you following?700 ish
160: How many posts do you have on your blog(s)?Idk
161: How many drafts do you have on your blog(s)??
162: How many likes do you have on your blog(s)?Idk
163: Last time you cried and why:Idk
164: Do you have long or short hair?It's medium but I wants it to be long again I miss it being long even if it's a lot of work
165: Longest your hair has ever been:past my chest
166: Why do you like, dislike, or have neutral feelings about religon?I say if something helps people and doesn't harm others in their lives let them. 
167: Do you really care how the universe and world was created?Not that much TBH
168: Do you like to wear makeup?Yes
169: Can you stand on your hands or head for more than thirty seconds?Never tried but probably not