#the VAs are doing their best but theyve got nothing to work with!

[gopher-jade]

What endlessly frustrates me about the writing in the moon arc is that it is so focused on technobabble and philosophical arguments that it completely neglects what even made honkai such a good story in the first place - the masterful portrayal of the characters' emotions, struggles and growth.

We love Kiana because we saw and heard how she was a bratty kid, and then became depressed, and then slowly climbed out of that hellhole. Props to the translaters, the scriptwriters, the voice actors, the staff behind the CGs. Mei's arc was heart-rending also because we saw how crushed she was by Kiana's struggles. Seele in CG slamming her fist on the ground and crying to herself, "Move, you coward!" will always haunt me. Veliona seeming like a psychopath and being pit against Saule and then eventually reconciling was the best thing ever, because the team really did such a good job of making it really seem like Veliona might harm Seele, and then later of conveying just how much Veliona actually loved her.

What do we get of that kind of character-building in this arc? Basically nothing. The characters are so busy talking about the technicalities of Project Stigma that we don't really know how they feel about the whole thing apart from (stock action movie hero voice) "that is so despicable and we will stop you!"

Senti is thankfully an exception, because she doesn't bother engaging with conversation unless it directly affects her. And she's got the right idea!

imo, when it comes to storytelling, the worldbuilding only needs to be as coherent as is necessary for the emotional stakes to make sense. The writers have spent so much time trying to explain the tech to us that they completely forgot about establishing the emotional stakes. Anyone who's stuck around with Honkai this long knows that the worldbuilding doesn't really make sense. Things gets retconned all the time. Anything that doesn't make sense gets blamed on Fenghuang Down. The writers really don't need to spend so much time convincing us that the worldbuilding make sense. We already know, it doesn't, and we loved you anyway. Why did you stop doing what you were good at?

Another thing that takes time away from actually establishing the emotional stakes is the philosophising. Okay, so most of the world is going to die and be reborn as a new entity that isn't really them. But the characters we love are mostly spared from that fate, so why should we care? I know this might make me sound heartless, but I only care about these fictional nameless people because the characters I love care about them. These nameless masses are fictional. I don't care. I can't even tell if the protags even care about these masses outside of an abstract "killing people bad" ideology. I don't know if it's because I haven't cleared the chapter yet (the writing is just that boring; the trio just met Kevin). But after hours of gameplay, the trio have never displayed any emotion outside of mere disapproval. The kind I might have when I go "wow that person has such a shit take on things, but I'll just live and let live". What are they even fighting for?

Granted, I do think the philosophical arguments are interesting and I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any in Honkai at all. But I can only enjoy it to a certain point, and it's not even done well here. We don't get to see any of the protagonists actually engaging with the philosophical argument. From what I can tell, it's just "Project Stigma is the only way some semblance of humanity can live past Finality" "Okay but CE isn't as driven into the corner as PE, can you let us try our things first before you effectively kill all of us?"

That's not a conversation. There's literally no emotional grappling with the fear that maybe, maybe Kevin is right and they will really fail, and that if they miss this chance then all of humanity really will be doomed.

Not to mention that we already covered this philosophical argument with the Kolosten arc. "Do a small group of elite, powerful people have the right to decide the fates of the masses, even when they've arguably already made it a good deal for them?" The answer is no, not when the timeline and form in which they existed would no longer exist, and when they didn't even consent to it. We got it! We had to go through that long arc to reach the moon arc! We got it! Can we move on to the character arcs now?

[madisonrooney]

im not that involved in the tangled fandom but i have some Thoughts on the finale/series overall now that its done so i figured id share. im a little under the weather so sorry if these are kinda scattershot

(spoilers below)

for starters, ive been watching since the beginning and was hype since it was announced. i love tangled the movie, probably in one the higher tiers of my fav disney movies, not to mention it was the first tv show wed gotten based on disney movie since emperors new school 11 years prior.

at first i was skeptical about them giving rapunzel her long hair back. it was pretty clearly just a marketing ploy but it was done pretty well in the pilot which i really liked so i could get behind it.

i thought the first half or so of s1 was really good and really cute. it was just a sweet little slice of life in corona. 

i started to get disappointed in the show once queen for a day came around. varian is my fav character (more on him later) and i didnt really like his villain arc. it felt really out of nowhere. not an obvious villain, not a surprise twist villain, just a character that didn’t feel like should’ve been a villain at all. it just didn’t bode well with me. 

i also felt that the jump from slice of life show to high stakes, serialized show was far too abrupt. even tho i liked the second half of s2 and all of s3 better (more on that later as well), it still seemed to have an uneven balance of light and heavy plotlines. i dont wanna sound like one of those people who hates filler episodes. filler episodes are good, but need to be done in the right way at the right time, and i feel like this show didn’t do that very well.

speaking solely on the high stakes, i really feel like they were too high for a show of its kind. in a way, i felt it was somewhat disrespectful to the source material. the show isnt canon, and i feel like it made some big changes that effected the story and characters from the movie, which i think is taking a step too far if youre working on a tv show thats made by an entirely different crew than the film (even tho its the same cast). like, eugene’s dad being revealed and being given a backstory, gothel having a daughter, it just felt like too much for me. compare it to, say, the dragons series, which had very high stakes but also fit snugly between the first and second movies, and took great effort so that nothing they did effected the films’ stories. the showrunners on the dragons show were even consultants on the third movie, so they all flow together nicely.

but rapunzel and the great tree reeled me back in and i was much more invested from there forward, main reason being it gave me my favorite trope (that was kind of already there, but even moreso from this point on): a bubbly girl and an angsty girl who are somehow best friends, though they may be at odds sometimes, like during this arc. i became way more invested in cass as a character and rapunzel and cass as friends (or a ship, im fine with either).

my problems with the imbalance and too high stakes didnt go away with the remainder of s2 or with s3 but my investment in cass’ arc (AND THE REDEMPTION OF VARIAN WHICH I WAS HOPING FOR) was enough for me to put my issues with the show at least somewhat aside.

as far as more things i liked about the show:

VARIAN

he is my fav character and has become one of my new fav characters of all time. i have this thing i think ive mentioned before where if i like an actor and like a show he’s in i love the character twice as much as i otherwise would. so having one of my fav broadway actors whos in one of my fav broadway shows play him made him an instant fav. but i also just love how cute and quirky he is.

cass!

like i said, i love cass and grew to love her more through her newest arc. partially for the same reason as with varian with the VA thing. i dont know much about eden espinosa but ik shes played elphaba and i love that they employed so much broadway talent for this show (more on that later). since the show has started, ive gotten into rent, and she was broadways final maureen, so thats cool too. but beyond just that, i love her arc and personality and of COURSE her relationship with rapunzel, that being one of my fav aspects of the show. it fits right in with liv and maddie, riley and maya, trish and jessica, webby and lena, luz and amity (depending on how the rest of the owl house plays out lol) and im HERE FOR IT. also, despite the fact that i wasnt a huge fan of the high stakes, i give the crew a lot of credit for making a main character a villain for an entire season. thats a big step for disney to take that i dont think theyve come anywhere near before and i give them props for that.

the broadway and disney alum cast!

weve got james monroe iglehart, pat carroll, christian borle, gavin creel, laura benanti, jane krakowski, etc. and as a broadway nerd i love that, not to mention that some of these people had worked with alan menken before which is awesome

the fact that they brought back the ENTIRE movie cast PLUS alan menken is amazing. i dont think any other show based on a movie can quite attest to that

so, onto the finale itself

- i was worried varian may go bad again especially given his initial resistance to eugene suggested his dad might go bad but that didn’t happen so yay. i noticed other people mentioning musical call backs but the only one i noticed was let me make you proud and it made me so happy - ALSO VARIAN BEING THE ROYAL ALCHEMIST IM SO PROUD OF MY SON - this being disney, i figured cass getting redeemed was probably inevitable, but i’m still relieved it happened. now i dont have the bad taste left in my mouth jessica jones gave me. and i loved how her redemption went, seeing her so vulnerable and letting herself be that vulnerable in front of rapunzel CRYING INTO HER ARMS LIKE MY HEART. they really made her very broken, it reminded me a lot of maya hart. sometimes disney channels not willing to go that deep but im impressed they did. - i was kinda hoping it would be revealed that gothel wasn’t actually cass’ mom, i remember seeing some people hoping for that, cuz, again, i feel like thats a bit much to change from the movie canon, buuuut that didnt happen. oh well. - I WAS HOPING FOR I LOVE YOUS BETWEEN CASS AND RAPUNZEL AND WE GOT IT AND WE GOT A HUG AND IM ALIVE - lance adopting the kids was adorable - all the movie parallels were *chefs kiss*

everything wrapped up so nicely and im really happy with it as a finale!

that aside, again, i do still have some issues with the show. so im gonna take a moment to shamelessly plug big hero 6 the series bc imo that does the movie to show adaption FLAWLESSLY.

tl;dr: great finale, despite both loving and hating some things about this show, yall should watch big hero 6 the series, im love varian