#the difference between his behavior and drivers like max lewis and charles is what is going to stop him from winning a wdc

[redhoodie1723]

lando norris number one enemy now

[lousycapy]

the reason why lestappen is so popular is bc a lot of the new f1 fandom has a “stan” background, they come from fandoms that already liked rpf, and coincidentally, a lot of these new ppl that came in are charles fans, and the narrative within the sport itself with lestappen is more appealing to his fans than the actual dynamics he has with other drivers (like the one he had with his own teammate or his friendship with pierre), lestappen’s narrative is based on max and charles being practically equal in terms of skills (that's one of the reasons why many max fans don't like the ship at all), and that they are destined to compete against each other, i think they see it as a compliment to charles, and if you look at the behavior of his shippers and the way they talk about max you will realize that the whole ship is centered around charles. the thing about liking them more for their individual personalities is a bit of bullshit, most lestappens don't really like max's tough personality, nor the idea that max can exceed that aggression on track with charles. one of the reasons why the fights between them were different is bc they have never been in the context of a title fight, max has never felt with charles that the championship is in danger and he must do whatever it takes to prevent his opponent from winning, as he did with lewis in 2021 or with lando last year. as you say, lestappen is like an unfinished story, because it's based on a title fight that never comes, but seeing the mindset that many of their shippers have, it's probably better for them if it never really comes bc they have a totally distorted version of verstappen.

I take it you’re not a lestappen fan 😅

feels like your explanations are a bit rude so I hope that’s not how you wanted to come across, people are allowed to enjoy shipping people together that you don’t necessarily agree with! the important thing is just to stay respectful when discussing in between fandoms.

now onto your points, as much as I do feel like newer fans tend to prefer the younger drivers I feel like actual numbers would be necessary to make this assumption, a lot may be fans of Charles, but also Lando and Max and Oscar and Franco and anyone else on or off the grid basically!

someone explained to me earlier that the “destined to compete against each other” plot comes from a lot of invisible strings that connect them through their youth, especially around their numbers (16&33). if you’re curious I could link you the post it was pretty interesting.

as for the whole ship being centered around Charles and Max fans not liking it, I’m no expert but from what I’ve seen I think I’ll have to partially agree with you on that, the majority of lestappen content I’ve seen tends to be more focused on the Charles part of the story than the Max part. I wouldn’t go as far as the whole ship though, more like a common tendency, and the fan content you see is always more catered to your preferences so I couldn’t speak on the Max fans not liking it part of your argument. I’m not familiar enough either to comment on the accuracy of how Max is depicted, on ao3 you’ll rarely get a perfectly accurate version of someone’s personality sadly.

for the on track fights we did get a taste of it at the beginning of 2022, but the sample is a bit small to determine if this was representative of what a title fight between them would have yielded. lestappen is an unfinished story, but I’m personally pretty excited to see how it develops in the future because there absolutely is potential for a great enemies-to-lovers arc if it ever comes to this title fight.

anyway, I’m sorry if I took your ask as being a bit rude when it wasn’t your intention at all, and I still tried to answer as best as I could… have a great day🫡

[f1notebook]

I watched dts last year before i watched my first f1 race, i know you asked about 2022.. but i was so confused when someone told me seb and charles don’t actually dislike each other lmao cant wait what it will be this time

Hello Anon !

Well my request wasn’t only about this year DTS (as I haven’t seen it) but in general, and drivers rivalry are actually a big issue in the show.

This is going to be long, very long, so take a seat and enjoy my essay.

To understand this issue, we have to go back in time : in the years before (I would say before 2010 but especially in the 70-80-90-2000) F1 drivers were seen as “bad asses” they were “viril” in whatever the words means, though, emotionless. It was actually bad seen for a driver to express his emotions, his struggles or his doubts. A F1 drivers was seen as someone out of common.

In this context, actually they weren’t a lot of friendships between drivers, at least not when they were competing (once they retired they could actually become friends) but a lot were just : “I don’t have friends here” this actually transfers to some drivers now, and they “were used to hear it”, so it’s their response now even if they don’t feel like it.

In the other side, F1 is know as : “you biggest adversary is your teammate” I even believe it’s one of the first sentence we hear in the very first drive to survive season. And well it is partially true, your teammate has exactly the same equipment and resources than you, but we often forget F1 isn’t an “individual” sport.

It seems strange first, but F1 is actually a very strong team sport. You don’t build the car yourself, you don’t win races by been on your own, you need people. And for a long time, there was this mantra that F1 drivers were alone which isn’t true.

If we look back, for example to Ferrari Michael era, he was helped by his teammate, Rubens Barrichello, this is a truth. Even if, talent speaking, Michael was superior to him, I am not sure he would have won 5 championship in a row without the help of his teammate. Same goes for Lewis, especially in 2018, without Valtteri I am not sure he would have won it. And in the other years, he could have won it but not as easily as he did.

Teammates are essencial, even if you want to beat them, you have to work and walk as a team.

Let’s put an example :

Imagine, last year, Lewis had a new teammate, let’s name him Kim, he comes to F1, great talent, in testing, Mercedes is quicker than Red bull (imagine), but, very early, Kim and Lewis don’t get along (imagine a scenario similar to Lewis and Nico in 2016), Red Bull have a slower car but it’s a very marginal difference, but in the other side of the pit lane, Max and Sergio get very well along.

Now, what would possible happen is just Max and Sergio seat down together and just thinking: “These guys have a faster car, they have better strategies but they hate each other, so we have a card to play, because we get well along, so when they are going to battle each other, we are just going to help each other.”

That goes way behind the factory and building the car, yes, the sharing set ups and helping each other with the car behavior is important, but just imagine, Lewis and Kim are in different strategies (like what happened in Paul Ricard with a Red Bull) Kim is asked to let Lewis by, because they aren’t in the same tyre, the target is different, and as they don’t like each other, Kim refuses, slows down Lewis and it’s a potential points lose for Mercedes.

Even if we can argue that race engineer and strategist are there to prevent that, that isn’t actually very true, remember Seb with Mark and the Multi 21, Seb directly disobey an order from the team and I don’t believe he had any really consequences.

Now imagine they just crash each other (Max/Daniel, Lewis/Nico) are the biggest example. A team that is directly fighting with another team don’t have the luxury of just throwing away 25 points, because you don’t score those points ( any really) and you allowed your biggest adversary to score them.

Another factor, is that now, drivers who become F1 drivers, most of the time grew with each other (Pierre/Charles, George/Lando) they are just part of the same generation who are competing in the same categories for years and years, what wasn’t exactly the case back then.

And we all know, when you are a kid, you don’t care about rivalries, you just want to have fun out and in track. You can just crash into each other and play football in the same team 5 minutes later. Children don’t have the same perspective of problems and conflicts than adults. So it creates a scenario for them that is absolutely possible of having a “rivalry” on track and get well along.

If you opponent works 12 hours a day to become better, and you just work 10, you might think “I have to do more” rather than “I hate him”.

So this is the scenario that the new generations grows up with. Charles, Max, George, Alex, Lando, Carlos, Mick, Nicholas and all the new generation are part of this. So, yes this their reality.

Seb as been in the sport for a long way, he know how it works, so he knows my first point of “you have to work as a team to succeed” is true. And Charles knows my second point “You don’t need to hate each other” is true. So in this context, they don’t need to hate each other, and they have personalities that can fit each other. Seb is a very kind and polite man who already prove everything he had to, and in the opposite, Charles is a very genuine guy. They don’t really have personality traits that could make them hate each other.

Whatever to know that you have to follow them since a bit, seeing them in every kind of occasion (up and downs) to see how they react in the heat of the moment.

Of course this isn’t an absolute truth, of course there are teams that just don’t get along, and it’s normal, but from “don’t get along” to the “absolutely hate each other” that Netflix will tell you there is a big difference. They might not been the best friends of the world, but they are adults and know it’s a job, and their teammate is a colleague before anyone else.

Concerning Seb and Charles, at the end of they day you could see Charles ready admired Seb for everything he accomplished, and Seb respected Charles a lot and was very aware that Charles is a pure talent. Most of the drivers really respect each other but of course there is some contradictory examples.

For example de Mick/Mazepin relationship wasn’t healthy, and that is because of the very first point, Mazepin couldn’t understand they needed to be a team, for him there was one part of the garage, Mick’s one that he didn’t needed to be involved with, and the other part was for him, just “colleagues” and a job. It’s very important to understand that people in the garage work with you and not for you, and they have your faith in their hands. Mazepin didn’t got that and when things started to get bad, he just put the fault on Mick and Mick’s side of the garage, without putting himself in question. He wasn’t there to work with Mick but to beat him, that way the relationship wasn’t that.

It was kinda of long but I think is important to realize that teams relationships are of the crucial point in F1, there is not such thing as : wining for a team that hates you. And a healthy relationship is indeed the most important thing in a winning team, I still think is one of the reasons it took Redbull so much time to fight for the championship, indeed Toto Wolff himself said he didn’t want anymore an atmosphere like the one he had with Nico and Lewis, because he knows if the cars wasn’t as dominant that it was (most of the team factory work) he would win that many championship.

You too, send me an ask of points you wanted to be explain about Drive To Survive narratives, points that chocked you, or points that weren’t real, or even situations they turned to fit their narrative. Let’s explain to the new public what is F1 about, and that DTS it’s just a show

[f1notebook]

omg jess I just realized that Lewis will not have Valtteri to let him through, it will be like nico and Lewis all over again. Wow i just needed the news to sink in.

Also who do you think will have the William's seat?

Hey sweetie !

Well I think the vibe in Mercedes next year is going to be difficult to predict. It all depends on George.

The thing with Nico and Lewis, is that Nico was already there when Lewis arrived, even if Lewis won 2014 and 2015 before the 2016 season, the dynamic was different. It was certainly way easier for Nico to impose himself than it was for Valtteri. Remembering, Nico experienced been teammates with Michael, so he had the experience of a tough teammate and how to handle the pressure and the difficulties of a world champion, which isn't the case for George.

Lewis came in 2013 to Mercedes, and it was what, Nico's fourth season with the team ? (I can be a mistake on the dates sorry) , Nico already knew all the theteam, was close to Toto, and most importantly, Lewis was a 3-time world champion in 2016 and the championship was between Nico and Lewis, Daniel was third if I am not wrong, with a big difference. The championship situation wasn't the same.

Now, we will have George in the play, I don't believe he is going to be a second Nico in his first year with Mercedes, I think he will play by the team. The only advantage he is going to have is in qualifying. If George can out qualified Lewis very often and have a good start, be consistent during the race, he will be in front of Lewis, and there isn't much the team can do about it.

We can't forget that Mercedes aren't the only ones to play a role here, Ferrari's performance and most importantly Red Bull's, especially Max, are going to play a big part in the game.

If Red Bull and Max are as strong as they are this year, is going to be even more complicated for George, because even if he has a massive talent, Max has it too, and he has the advantage to know his team, to work with them for years, so he will be strong if the car is good, in this case, Lewis seems to be the only person that can stop him and battle with him. And the team will then prioritize Lewis on the strategy, similar to what is happening this year.

So if Mercedes have a team to fight with, George will be in a similar situation to Valtteri, unless he qualifies on the front row every Grand Prix.

But if Mercedes are very dominant, George has his chance because Mercedes won't have the need to fight against other teams, and Lewis won't be prioritized as much as he has been as Mercedes would be world champion.

The other case is if Mercedes aren't able to fight as much as they are now, in this case, I believe we will have a dynamic like Lando and Daniel (Absolutely nothing against both drivers, it's just an example).

As you can see, there is way more than just George and Lewis dynamic in the play, it's really difficult to imagine how it's going to be. Nevertheless, I don't believe Toto will let what happened in 2016 happen again, simply because Max and probably Charles are a big threat and it doesn't look good for the team. As well, I don't believe George will play that card either, he knows it is his first year with Mercedes, and he has to show he is a good asset to the team (like Sergio), and not causing the team millions of damage and bad reputation, he is smarter than that.

But at the same time, I don't believe we will have a Mick/Nikita dynamic either, simply because none of them are as stupid and stubborn.

For the Williams seat, I am not very sure, I think Nyck has a big shoot and I profoundly wish he is going to have it, he really deserves it as it should have been his in 2020. Not forgetting that Antonio's seat isn't confirmed yet, at this point, there is a lot of drivers in the run, Nyck, Alex, Callum, ... we will see.

Long answer I know, but it's kinda of fun to analyze people's behavior and how teams dynamics works isn't it ?

Especially because Mercedes hasn't announced anything for now, here they are going to come tomorrow with a #WelcomeAlex we are going to die.

People, just don't forget this is only my opinion and you are free to have yours, please don't send hate 🙏