#the upperclass officer with his working class soldiers?

[cloudprincesslady]

sean finnerty honestly might be the most attractive character brennan has ever played......... and that's really saying something

[thebreakfastgenie]

Like, okay. I see it this way, though bear in mind there are inconsistencies with nearly all these characters' backgrounds:

Radar is rural working class. His family are farmers and live on that.

Klinger is urban working class. There are indications some of his relatives obtain money and goods through shady dealings to supplement this.

Trapper is never defined in the show. I've always felt his background was working class, though not dirt poor, but there is really no canon on the show version of the character. He seems to have a relatively comfortable middle class life with his wife and kids, though details are thin on that too, which makes me think he was out of residency and in practice for a couple of years before being drafted.

Mulcahy is from a large Irish Catholic family that is at least implied to be working class. I would not be surprised if there is a decent amount of education in his family via the church, however.

Henry seems to be from a middle class background, but I don't think he's from multiple generations of doctors. His father was probably either a skilled tradesman or a professional, with a high school education not likely not more. Henry was also born around 1905, for reference. His connection to the army may well have been that he became a reservist in order to pay for his education. He's achieved middle class success in his adult life by the time we meet him, owing to his successful private medical practice.

Frank is also from a middle class background. He's said to have married into money, so he probably did not grow up with much, but I don't think he grew up in poverty. He's also implied to have skipped specialized training to go right into private practice and start making money. Because this is so early, I suspect it's a reference to the book version of Frank, who did not complete a residency and instead went into practice with his father, who was also a doctor.

Hawkeye is from a financially stable rural background. He was never struggling, but did not grow up with luxuries either. He probably did not have financial support available from his father during college, medical school, or residency, so he probably had a poor student phase. He doesn't seem to have made much money in practice prior to being drafted, but he was on track to do so eventually. Unless he returns to a surgical career sometime after the war, he will probably remain more or less how he grew up: a financially stable rural doctor.

Margaret is middle class, but being an army brat makes her cultural background a little different from someone with a middle class civilian upbringing. She never had the stability of staying in one place for very long, but was always provided for by the army. Her father was also a well-regarded officer, so there is a certain level of social clout associated. Her marriage to Donald, had it lasted, would certainly have increased her wealth and social standing.

BJ is solidly middle class. He grew up with certain luxuries. He's also a third generation doctor. From the one episode that discusses it, I get the sense that Peg's parents were relatively well-off as far as ranchers go. We also know that Peg supplemented their income. BJ seems to come from a background where education and professional success were expected.

Potter is perhaps the most upwardly mobile character. He grew up on a farm, though seemingly a pretty successful one. His uncle was a veterinarian, so there was some exposure to life outside agriculture in his family. But he seems to have achieved social mobility primarily though his military service. He started as an enlisted soldier then used the army to get an education and continued to serve as a doctor and officer. He enjoyed a comfortable middle class life with Mildred as a result of this career.

Charles is upperclass and wealthy. He has family connections and elite education.

[goldenkamuyhunting]

Is Ogata a virgin?

To be honest...

I’m probably not the right person to ask this as I genuinely don’t have the slightest idea about it and I’m not really interested in this.

You see, those were different times from now.

While Japan had different ideas than the west about purity, marriage and so on, from what I know folk girls at the time wouldn’t really be willing to sleep around with boys easily, unless they planned to marry said boy and move to live with him (Meiji era is a time of changes though, so cut me some slack on this as I might be anticipating a bit a mentality that will develop in the future).

To make it simple, Harumi Chiyo (or Igogusa if you prefer) might have slept with Tsukishima prior to him leaving for war because Tsukishima made clear he wanted to marry her once he were back and she might have believed him so, if she were to remain pregnant no harm would be done as they would get married anyway.

On the other side it’s more unlikely Kakizaki Umeko slept with Sugimoto even though she equally loved him, as they apparently weren’t engaged, even though they were childhood sweethearts... while if she had lived in present times she would have been more willing to spend a night with the boy she liked even if they weren’t talking about getting married.

I genuinely doubt Ogata was/is in a serious relationship with a girl, so it’s strongly unlikely he got to sleep with someone for free.

Of course the typical male method in all the centuries and in almost all the countries (if not in all of them) to lose their virginity was to sleep with a prostitute, and it was especially popular among soldiers, even more when they were at war... which is something I don’t really consider praiseworthy.

Girls were often forced into the profession by misery or by being sold (or even kidnapped as they attempted to do with Asirpa), and taking advantage of their conditions has been something men had done for centuries and that really doesn’t make them that special in my eyes, just because in this way they managed to get rid of their virginity.

Maybe it’s just me.

Now... feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but I think this question was spurred by the Q&A section in the fanbook and more specifically by this bit.

Q18: “The scene in which Ogata tries to corrupt Yuusaku by taking him to a brothel and telling him that brothers are supposed to do bad things together was very sexy and impactful. Does it mean that Ogata frequented brothels, and has the appropriate experience?”

Noda: “He just pretended that he knows what he’s doing.” (Translation courtesy of @piduai)

To be honest the asker never mentions brothels but the "red light district” (遊郭 ‘yūkaku’ lit: “play quarters” but it was generally used in the sense of “pleasure quarters”) however he/she is clearly referring to Ogata’s visit to a specific place (and the image that goes with that ask in the fanbook is the one above just to visually help who didn’t remember about it).

(If someone is wondering “experience” is just ‘Keiken’ (経験) which means, well, “experience” in general)

Now... there’s a huge chance no soldier of Ogata’s rank or lower got a chance to have experience in such a place.

The price from prostitutes varies and the troops didn’t get much money.

The prostitutes working in the slums of Sapporo were probably the cheapest choice as they seemed to work directly on the streets and it was their customer who had to provide a place in which to go, if he wanted to do it somewhere more comfortable... and as you can see in the manga some still had to turn down the chance to spend time with them for a lack of money.

We know Otaru is packed with brothels (私娼窟 ‘shishōkutsu’), disguised as Soba shops.

The ones working for the pimp Sugimoto and Shiraishi interacted with are possibly a bit more expensive than them as they supposedly had a place in which to handle their trade, but as Shiraishi points out they’re ugly and their place is likely modest.

We then move to the brothel in which Ushiyama goes the first time.

It’s likely a bit better as his girl seems prettier and the owner will later brag they’ve the best girls and the best soba.

Sugimoto can afford the soba but the girls would likely cost more. Still maybe he could afford them. We’ll see though how they aren’t there to serve him or something.

Still the girl working there is definitely prettier than the previous, so I’ll say she should be more expensive than the ones with the pimp.

And then we move to the high class places.

We don’t get to see the inside but the girls seems even prettier and by the look of it pretty expensive. Ushiyama likely moved there because Hijikata and Nagakura are now economically supporting him.

Shiraishi (and Ishikawa too) will start visiting expensive brothels as well once Hijikata will start founding them.

The structure of this place is more like the one in which Yuusaku and Ogata went... but the girls are back on not being pretty...

To climb up to this very pretty Oiran.

Oiran (花魁) was a specific category of high ranking courtesan in Japanese history. Divided into a number of ranks within this category, oiran were considered – both in social terms and in the entertainment they provided – to be above common prostitutes, known as yūjo (遊女) (lit. 'woman of pleasure'). Though oiran by definition also engaged in prostitution, they were distinguished by their skills in the traditional arts, with the highest ranking oiran having a degree of choice in which customers they took.

Now... maybe the ladies with Ogata and Yuusaku aren’t the most expensive in the market, but they’re clearly in an upperclass place with 3 beautiful ladies, drinking sake.

I bet this is much more than Ogata’s salary allowed him and the patron for such visit is Tsurumi. Ogata though couldn’t take Yuusaku to a lesser, more economical place, as the point is to tempt an upper class boy like he is, so beautiful women and an elegant place are a must.

Long story short, while Ogata might have had sex with a prostitute... in that situation he’s clearly blind flying as it’s highly unlikely he could allow himself to do so much as drink in such a place, even less to have the girls.

To me it looks like a place for officers, with girls who are even taking care to be discreet, the perfect place to tempt an upper class official like Yuusaku, not a place for superior privates or common soldiers to spend their money regularly.

So, back to the question, did Noda refer solely to prostitutes in places like this, or to prostitutes in general?

No idea.

It can entirely be Ogata didn’t feel like having sex with a prostitute, as not only the affordable ones are ugly, but he might live it as a call back to his mother’s situation.

Although Ogata Tome was a geisha and not a common prostitute, Ogata has likely heard her being accused to be as such many times and the thing might have left a mark.

He’s not utterly repulsed by them, as, once Yuusaku is gone, he let one of them to keep hanging with him and touch him...

...even though he clearly was expecting Tsurumi and couldn’t do much else (especially since the whole thing was a fiasco and it’s unlikely Tsurumi would apprecciate Ogata getting fun from it).

So again, no idea.

It’s not surprising Ogata had no experience with that type of brothels and girls.

He might have had experience with much cheaper prostitutes but if he had or not is not really that interesting to me and not having it might even make sense considering his upbringing as the illegittimate son of a woman accused to sell her body.

He might not want to cause the birth of other children who’re in his place, nor he might feel comfortable with the idea of paying someone for sex.

A common joke among me and some of my friends is that Ogata’s only love is his rifle and, at most, he might fall for the girls of “Girls' frontline“ as they’re weapons’ personifications but, of course, this is just a joke.

So sorry, but I really don’t have an idea if he had sex previously or not. He seems to at least know how men are when they have sex...

...but again it could be a reference to how his father acted so... no idea.

Sorry if I wasn’t really helpful and thank you for your ask!

[goldenkamuyhunting]

Do you have any theories on exactly who each kidnapper might be?

Well...

I sort of talked about it at lenght in my meta for chap 199, the one for chap 198 and in this meta about who the kidnappers could be but I don’t mind to recap it for who doesn’t feel like reading my long Meta about the chapters, though I hope I won’t bore who did.

So the kidnappers.

As far as I’m involved all I’m confident about (though of course I could be wrong) is that Tsurumi is either orchestrating or HEAVILY influencing the kidnapping as the kidnappers seem to move in a manner that’s simply too convenient to him and not convenient at all to Russia.

As of now we’ve seen only 3 kidnappers, they all keeping their face and hair covered.

While we don’t know if we’re supposed to know all three of them or just one, I’m confident it’s not possible they’re all unknown guys. Noda is going at great lenght to keep their faces hidden FROM US, not just from Koito, so I think at least one if not all three of them, have to be a familiar face.

It’s worth to note 2 of them has shown they can speak in Russian and they understand Japanese. The third instead can ride a horse.

They all have pale skin (at least the skin of their hands look pale).

Tsurumi shoot at the kidnapper on the horse but as Noda this time didn’t represent the bullet trajectory going through him, an entrance hole or blood spraying out, there’s a HUGE chance the guy only faked being hit, which is a hint he might be in an allegiance with Tsurumi and merely chased them for the show.

So back to Tsurumi who he could use for the job?

As said in a past post:

1) genuine Russians governement officers/spiesamong which Tsurumi managed to put a mole so he would know everything abouttheir moves and could influence their actions

2) trustedmen from the 7th

3) randomgoons

Let’s check our possibilities one by one.

1) genuine Russians governement officers/spiesamong which Tsurumi managed to put a mole so he would know everything abouttheir moves and could influence their actions

We know very few Russians, basically the guys who organized the stenka or took part to it, Svetlana and her parents, Ilya and Vasily (with the other two border guards) and the doctor who took care of Ogata.

Honestly if it were the guys who organized the stenka I wouldn’t see why to keep their faces hidden. Also they do not speak Japanese. Same for Svetlana and her parents who really, I can’t see taking part to this.

No idea if Ilya and Vasily know Japanese but somehow I doubt they would be involved in this as they looked just like two border guards, not the sort of people you’ll involve in this sort of mission.

The doctor who took care of Ogata behave in an extremely suspicious manner, so he could be more than what he looks like...

...considering he said Ogata was about to die when we’ll see him up and rather lively even for a guy who’d just been operated moment after.

He was familiar with Japanese, though he said it was due to taking part to the Russo-Japanese war.

His lobes are different from the other characters, which made me wonder if he’s a pure Russian or he actually has Ainu blood.

He was conveniently introduced before the flashback so he can be connected to it but... there are no real hints connecting him to one of the kidnappers.

2) trustedmen from the 7th

At the time (1902) most of the men we know who’re currently in the 7thshouldn’t have been in it yet.

This refers to all the 1stclass privates and, possibly, to the superior privates as well who might have been in the7thbut, if they were in it, they likely were just rookies.

So at most we can consider:

Corporal Tamai, Sergeant Tsukishima and Warrant Officer Kikuta.

If you ask me Kikuta is the sort who wouldn’t want to risk his own career allowing himself to be involved in the kidnapping of Rear AdmiralKoito Heiji who’s likely also someone upperclass considering how rich the Koito family looks like.

Tsurumi at the time was promising, but not so promising one like Kikuta would bet his career on him... though since we don't know Kikuta that well, I might be wrong in judging him.

We know next to nothing about Tamai, except for his face and that he was part of a rebel group. If he’s in the bunch no amount of hints would help us to recognize him.

Tsukishima can be considered a possibility as he was already working for Tsurumi, he’s very loyal to him, knows Russian and one of the kidnappers was nice with Koito.

On the other side there’s to wonder if Tsukishima, despite his loyalty to Tsurumi, was already to the point in which he would kidnap the son of a rear admiral. It looks as if Tsurumi informed him of the Ainu plan only during the Russo Japanese war (1904/05), therefore 2, 3 years after the kidnapping, so I’m not sure how Tsurumi would have persuaded him to take part to this.

3) randomgoons

This opens the doors to... everyone who’s willing to do dirty jobs, really. From convicts that weren’t arrested yet (we don’t know when all the convicts ended in jail so some of them might have been still free at the time) to partisans like Kiro and Wilk who might have been willing to do the job if they were to see it as potentially useful for their cause or were tricked into seeing it as potentially useful for their cause. It actually opens the door to the 1stclass privates and to the superior privateswe know if they were willing to dirty their hands as they wouldn’t do the job as soldiers but just as hired goons.

So, since this can only lead us so far let’s look again at the kidnappers and see if there are hints on who they could be.

THE KIDNAPPER WITH THE CAP

He’s the first kidnapper we see and he’s always on a horse which he rides with confidence and ability (he uses it to stop Koito’s vehicle and manages to keep the horse calm even if the vehicle might have frightened it and might have also managed to have the horse run down a hill... which is something a horse can do but only if it’s trained and his rider is good).

The best rider we’ve in the cast is Kiroranke who could even win a horse race, loves horses and has a lot of experience with them.

Interesting enough Kiro also used to wear a cap like the one of the kidnapper (I still thanks @chibivesicle for noticing this!).

THE KIDNAPPER WITH THE BLACK BOWLER HAT

All we know about him is he covered Koito’s face, can talk Russian, doesn’t seem to be particularly tall compared to young Koito (I’ll assume 16 years old Koito is much shorter than his actual 21 years old self) and sniffed an Anpan.

Now sniffing things is done so often by Ogata it could be considered his signature move.

While I find unlikely he could be one of Tsurumi’s trusted men in the 7thalready as he would be around 20 and men tended to join the army at 21 (so a newcomer at the very best), it can be that he was already working for the partisans, which would explain his alliance with Kiro later on.

Considering Kiro might be in this due to how the kidnapper with the cap has elements in common with him, it’s possible Ogata was dragged in as well. We know that 20 for the partisans isn’t young at all as Kiro was chosen to murder the Russian emperor when he was 15, so at 20 Ogata would be more than old enough to be a partisan who could do his share.

Golden Kamuy hinted there could be a connection between Ogata and Wilk’s village in Karafuto and it’s noteworthy Ogata knows Russian and he used it to insult Koito instead than Japanese, and this also could be explained if he had taken part at the kidnapping (though it can also be explained by Kiro telling him about it)...

...so although there are less hint that make him similar to the black bowler hat kidnapper compared to Kiro, well, the possibility it’s him exists.

THE KIDNAPPER WITH THE WHITE FEDORA HAT

In the kidnapping, this guy was in the coach, and then he was left in charge to take care of Koito. He give him food and water and also a Tsukisappu Anpan, who however was very old and therefore expired and also tried to confort him when his father said he has to die for the sake of his country.

This one is the one that’s actually hard to connect to anyone... as there are various speculations on who he could be but nothing specific that would connect him to a character.

Some has speculated he could be Tsukishima as he showed kindness to Koito by rubbing his back... though Tsukishima never got physically kind with anyone, not even Koito. He carries him when he’s wounded and praises him when he thinks they have accomplished the mission they came in Karafuto for but doesn’t rub his back or pat his head or anything else.

The anpan thing has also considered as a possible hint because, although it’s not nice to give an expired anpan to someone, since it’s a Tsukisappu Anpan it could have been part of Tsurumi’s plan that Koito were to get one.

Or he might not have realized they were expired and so giving him a sweet (having sweets back then wasn’t easy) was an act of extreme niceness.

We never saw Tsukishima in western clothes when dressed as a civilian so his clothes aren’t a hint either.

On the other side the whiteness of his hat might be a call to the whiteness of Ogata’s cape, the fact that the Anpan was expired might be a hint the fedora kidnapper wanted to be a jerk to Koito but then he switched to niceness when he realized Koito’s father would abandon him like Hanazawa did with him. We know Ogata saved Shinpei from being murdered by his father so Ogata can be empathic toward rejected children... on the other side we never saw Ogata being physically gentle with someone... but we are in 1902 and we only know 1907 Ogata. The guy could have grown colder and harder in 5 years.

If he’s Ogata though, we would have no one with whom to connect the black bowler hat kidnapper.

Another possibility is this guy is actually Wilk.

If Kiro is involved, there’s a chance Wilk would be too, with this flashback paralleling the one we saw about how Wilk, Kiro and Sofia met Hasegawa/Tsurumi. In that one we didn’t know Tsurumi was Hasegawa, in this one we don’t know the kidnappers are Kiro and Wilk.

1902 is the year in which the incident with the gold took place. Wilk was already a father and having Asirpa around might have softened him a bit so that the guy who was okay with slitting the throat of a companion to protect the others is now feeling like conforting a teen who hears his father telling him he has to die for his country’s sake.

Kiro after all told Inkarmat (and us) that Wilk had changed.

It might have meant he didn’t feel up on doing dirty works like kidnapping teens and murdering emperors any longer and just wanted to be a fulltime dad.

Or, since he had no real characteristic we can connect to someone with certainty, he could have been the overmentioned Russian doctor, who due to his strange behaviour and large lobes might actually be also partly a member of a minority and therefore might have been a partisan because again, since Kiro could be in the team, other partisans could be in it.

So, as of now, those are what look like the most likely possibilities for the kidnappers assuming the three of them are someone we know and neither of them is a random goon.

Of course, as usual, I might be completely off track or miss elements that will be given later on and will be revealed relevant to figure who the kidnappers are.

I know @chibivesicle is answering to the same question so I recommend reading her reply as well as I’m sure she’ll raise good points (I hadn’t yet because I wanted to finish mine but I’m going too as soon as I’ve posted this).

We’ll see! Thank you a lot for your ask that gave me the chance to recap things!