#this guy is definitely approaching it from a cishet male perspective

[pisshandkerchief]

I judge every history of star trek based on how the author talks about fandom and the genesis of slash fiction

[battlestar-royco]

Just so you know, there’s a SJM account that’s saying you guys worship grrm and like the way he wrote about dany’s rape scene. To elaborate, this user wrote that you guys unfairly critique SJM for including sex scenes in her novels because she’s a woman but then worship grrm anyways because he’s a man. I don’t know if you guys get a lot of anon hate but I thought I would warn you in case because she made it seem as if you guys are abuse apologists instead of just people who don’t like sjm

Okay so I sat down to answer this ask and it kind of unintentionally became an anti SJ/M manifesto. So before I begin, thanks anon for sending me this and giving me an excuse to write it. Here is an obnoxiously long answer about the nature of the anti community. TL;DR, critiquing Mess is valid for many reasons, and there are many further reasons why the “antis should critique GRRM more”/painting SJ/M antis as GRRM apologists/stans arguments don’t really hold water.

I think we’ve run into that essay and maybe actually butted heads with the author. From what I remember, the account in question took us out of context by implying that because we critique SJ/M more and for the most part believe Martin is technically a better writer than Mess, we inherently excuse his horrific depiction of rape and women. I try not to read stan tags or specific accounts except for the rare occasion that someone directs me to a blog, so the only time I see their posts is when an anti quotes or screenshots an SJ/M blog post. I also try not to take stan critics too seriously because every time they critique us they just further clarify that they have no idea what the anti community is about–specifically, our reasons for critiquing SJ/M (rather than Martin), how diverse our approaches to critique are, the kind of action we intend to inspire with our posts, and what we actually post about. The main argument against anti blogs is that we’re too hard on SJ/M in favor of GRRM, which is a strawman argument for many reasons. So even though I shouldn’t have to explain the reasons for our community existing, and specifically not focusing on Martin, this seems a better opportunity than any to do so:

Just because we have more critique of SJ/M on our blogs than we do of Martin doesn’t mean that the critiques of SJ/M are invalid. In fact, we critique SJ/M because her books are written such that people (specifically teen girls and young women, more often white and cishet) are able to reject Martin’s books due to their problematic nature. They can then turn to the hollow feminism of SJ/M’s work and say that she is better–at worldbuilding, at craft, whatever may have you, but specifically at writing women and progressive/feminist narratives. Though I disagree with all of these things, the former aspects don’t bother me as much as the last one. I take great issue with this last takeaway and I think it’s very privileged and even further problematic to maintain it in the grand context of fantasy literature, so that’s why I focus my blog on SJ/M. Additionally, for as long as I’ve been in the community–a little over a year now! :D–I have never witnessed an anti praise GRRM’s diversity and representation of women in a positive light compared to SJ/M. This is in large part because aside from my and Marta’s accounts, GRRM rarely comes up, and if he does it is not in the context of critiquing SJ/M. Additionally, he does not have the Martin equivalent of “Messisms”–AKA repeated and inaccurate claims of progressive sentiments in his books, as SJ/M does. As someone who has read copious feminist/activist and radical gender/postcolonial etc theory, it is very important to me to unpack the implications of Mess’s frequent and frankly careless ascriptions of “feminist” to her books which are being marketed to girls and women. (To be fair, I don’t pay as much attention to Martin’s interviews as I do Mess; his books, writing style, and persona fail to inspire me to research his writing advice and meta commentary.)

Another main reason why GRRM is not discussed as much in the anti corner is that most of our blogs are YA lit-oriented, which necessarily means that many of us mostly or only read and critique women writing fantasy for other women. As Martin is a male adult fantasy author, bringing him up in respect to SJ/M is often inorganic–in fact, probably as inorganic as critique would be on an SJ/M-oriented blog, which is maybe part of the reason why they don’t critique him themselves. For me, there is incredible power in doing the work I see in the anti community–marginalized people coming at the same text with completely different perspectives, using our different knowledge and reactions to the books to spread awareness for other upcoming marginalized readers and writers in the hopes that the YA community at large (again, a community created/maintained by and for mostly women, non-binary people, and girls) will improve. This simply could not be done if our community was GRRM-focused or equally critiquing GRRM as we do SJ/M and other YA authors.

I also find it odd that though SJ/M blogs have expressed interest in seeing more critique of GRRM, they 1). hold anti SJ/M blogs responsible for doing that work (which some of us in fact do) instead of doing it within in their own community and 2). do not seem to seek out the plentiful and diverse ASOIAF/GOT blogs that also critique Martin. I regularly read plenty of ASOIAF/GOT meta blogs that both extensively praise and theorize about his books and offer intricate and harsh critique of his books. Almost all of these are run by women. The existence of such blogs evidences another main reason why GRRM doesn’t come up in anti SJ/M circles as much: the ASOIAF fandom doesn’t need antis because they know how to critique Martin. There is nuance in their conversations that I did not see in SJ/M’s fandom in the years that I was present. That being said, there definitely are Martin stans out there, and in my experience they come in two forms: white edgelord men who love grimdark and violence against marginalized characters, and white women who claim against all contrary evidence that Martin is a wonderful writer who knows exactly what he’s doing and deserves the benefit of the doubt because his books are ultimately progressive and feminist. Neither of these types of stans are anywhere to be found in the anti SJ/M community. This may be because I don’t check SJ/M stan blogs, but I’ve seen way more critique of anti SJ/M bloggers–who were hurt by both Mess’s and GRRM’s books–from stans than I have ever seen of Martin or Mess themselves, and it is often justified with the specific panem-et-circenses argument you mention, anon (ie, ridiculing antis for discussing Mess more than Martin instead of calling out who actually needs to be called out: MESS AND MARTIN). The situation is a lot more complex than “antis have double standards against Mess because Martin is a man.” At this point in my anti tenure, ASOIAF/GOT is the second most-discussed topic on my blog, closely followed by the likes of Casserole Eclair, JKR, YA drama, and random TV shows I’m watching. Seeing as I have been affected (often negatively) by many of these authors, I want to talk about it. I like talking about it. It’s how I engage with most literature, and I don’t see why that’s something stans look down upon.