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betteryyz · 7 years

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Transcript for: “A brief history of social housing”, Sept 13 2017

Hey!

In lieu of a recording, here is a typo filled twitter transcript of the event. Enjoy:

Hey! Welcome to “a brief history of social housing”, we’ll be your host tonight. We’re live tweeting the event so follow along!pic.twitter.com/fZ2tJHixKR

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:04 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Our panelists tonight are: Greg Suttor, a senior housing researcher w/Wellesley & Claire-Helene Heese-Boutin chair of the @parkdaleland

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:06 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Our moderator is our co l-organizer @ShakerJamal1 Great turn out tonightpic.twitter.com/NDi2aUYgjY

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:07 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: we hear about in the news a lot about the price of houses, but there’s a lot more to it than that. Can you speak about diff types?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:14 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Looking around the packed room tonight @betteryyz' history of TO's housing crisis, so clear this is THE issue for young ppl. pic.twitter.com/NEHQCE245Y

— Simone Swail (@simoneswail) September 13, 2017

Big crowd here to hear about the #housing crisis in #YYZ, held by @betteryyz pic.twitter.com/tfCUx7w9tu

— Felix YYZ (@FelixYYZ) September 13, 2017

<had to do some mic troubleshooting but basically> there’s co-ops, social housing, renting, not just ownership

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:15 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: how does @parkdaleland fit in? Here I rec just checking them out as we catch up; community owned land! + leases w/local operators

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:16 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: … also tries hard to engage w/community, holistic approach where land trust 1 piece of the puzzle for neighborhood at large

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:17 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: was land trust inspired by other groups? C: other groups in the neighbourhood, other examples in the US. Situation is diff in Toronto…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:18 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… as cost of acquisition is so high, have to be more innovative than what we see. S: how has yr relationship been w/govts?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:19 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: it’s been good, have to keep lines open, received support from @gordperks and other actors in the neighborhood, potential support from…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:20 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… national housing strategy. The framework we’re working isn’t as advanced as say healthcare, which is seen as basic governance.

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:21 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: TCH entity we hear a lot about but as a millennial it’s always been around but it’s always running out of $; where did it come from?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:22 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: long story! Gov’ts do lots of things in housing we take for granted. Pre 1967 we didn’t have condos, in 70s relatively strong tenant laws

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:22 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We have a stem of financing housing, setting interest rates, gov’ts affect housing in many ways & have to decide to be purposeful about it

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:23 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Say early 1900 huge rapid urbanization, industrialization, gov’ts start doing basic programs like old age, unemployment

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:24 PM - 13 Sep 2017

1920s govt says well we do these programs so people don’t suffer in old age or from poverty; same time we have ppl living terribly

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:25 PM - 13 Sep 2017

(Think tenements, lower east side) gov’ts started thinking well we can do better if we skip need for profit. By 1940s begins to invest

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:25 PM - 13 Sep 2017

1960s welfare state gets augmented and housing seen as part of what gov’ts do, esp considering the very poor housing available at time

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:26 PM - 13 Sep 2017

From mid 1960s to 1990s we built quite a bit of social housing, and most is from that period; about 10% of all housing was social housing

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:27 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We created public entities and authorized non profit entities to build housing; then the gov’t out up a lot of money, mostly loans

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:27 PM - 13 Sep 2017

But also subsidies to help build or help operate; basic thinking we can provide low income ppl rents matched to 30% income

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:29 PM - 13 Sep 2017

By 1970s thinking shifted towards mixed income to avoid ghettoizaion. TCH does a little more social housing than most of Canada but also…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:29 PM - 13 Sep 2017

It happened when toronto was getting built out; you don’t see it as much in the 905 area.

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:30 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: seems like the govt used to think it was its job to help fund housing. Did that change?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:30 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: a couple things happened in the 90s; we had big cut backs in social spending, assistance, healthcare; some has since been restored

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:31 PM - 13 Sep 2017

But also if cuts to provinces and social housing; social housing becomes something we _used_ to do, seen as last resort instead of a mix

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:31 PM - 13 Sep 2017

But cuts to production; Feds pull back funding (a bit more than half) and pull back; Ontario meanwhile Harris at the time says,

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:32 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We’re going to devolve this to municipalities, and make the cities own and operate and pay for subsidies. That’s how the city funds TCH to

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:33 PM - 13 Sep 2017

A tune of 500M a year; it’s rather unique since most places in the world don’t force cities to foot the bill

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:33 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: were effects in Ontario more or less pronounced? G: simile but more severe. Same federal cuts but downloading was unique to ON

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:34 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Montreal region only pays about 10%; BC pays more, Ontario is anomalous. S: Claire have you seen the effect of downloading?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:35 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: prob limited perspective but seen with tenant deregulation where people are being evicted to flip properties / raise rents

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:36 PM - 13 Sep 2017

This is having a serious impact on rents housing; speculation in the market is really aggravating situation in Toronto. Take rooming houses

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:36 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Rooming houses a legacy of deinstitutionalization, ppl being forced to find a place to live w/o market incomes, found rooming houses

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:37 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Investors now conveying these into micro luxury suites and removing affordable housing. Huge impacts on the ground. Interestingly…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:38 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Parkdale is actually losing population as the city is growing as people engage in these conversions; land trust tries to take land off markt

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:39 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: housing is a commodity a& mostly not gonna change but also a huge human need & huge % of household spending. There’s a question:

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:39 PM - 13 Sep 2017

To what extent do human needs call for gov’ts to say we can’t just let market forces go wild. In many ways the 90s were a very benign time

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:40 PM - 13 Sep 2017

They were a favorable time for the middle class as housing prices went down in real estate crash & only last 3-5 years has got crazy again

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:41 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Ppl saying wait, the market isn’t working so well anymore, how should govt be more forceful.

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:41 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: think we’ll ever go back to how we used to see housing? C: I think we’ll start tying this to larger macro econ; huge $ sitting idle,

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:43 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Climate change changing the reality we occupy, will have to transform delivery of goods and services outside market forces. Also time to…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:44 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Why do we live in a society where people don’t have homes even tho we have the ability to build it? Disheartening to see wealth & suffering

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:44 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: is there a role for social housing in our neoliberal era? G: for a city to spend 500M on housing subsidies is quite a burden;

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:46 PM - 13 Sep 2017

But fiscally feasible for provincial and federa govts. Huge opportunity in existing housing since most mortgages now paid off,

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:47 PM - 13 Sep 2017

TCH can break even at $600/mo ballpark which means it can operate quite effectively once mortgages are gone. What will a private LL charge?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:48 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Trad social housing is very cost effective & can take out new loans to pay for new housing like in Sweden and Netherlands. City can’t do it

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:48 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Hopefully some more strategic thinking from diff gov’ts and national housing strategy

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:49 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: huge opportunity in co-op housing to similarly use those assets to grow more housing, want to highlight that opportunity co-ops are great

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:49 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: Okay, why are co-ops so awesome? C: people get involved! Someone worked their asses off to make cool stuff happen

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:50 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Some members pay rent geared 2 income, as low as $129/mo - can you imagine how big a diff that makes? Co-ops share responsibility, community

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:51 PM - 13 Sep 2017

In terms of housing crisis, co-ops have huge $$ in assets once our mortgages are up we can grow more; be a city builder

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:52 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: can we build more social housing? Will we build more of it? G: complicated; can’t just refinance, need new models & financing

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:53 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We need provinces to make it easier; part involves arrangements for new mortgage loans. A bank providing a loan makes it more expensive for…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:54 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… commercial operators. Similarly it needs to be easier for non profits to get funding. But we also need funding that scales w/pop growth

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:54 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Toronto has grown by 25% but our social housing system hasn’t. Where do middle and low income people find options?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:55 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Housing stock doesn’t just grow immediately to reflect new need.

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:56 PM - 13 Sep 2017

<I missed question> G: … we need to make renting a viable option can’t just be a stigmatized option; in Germany half of ppl rent

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:57 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Good security of tenure, good quality, we used to produce good quality new apartments for rent and it was a normal option for mid class ppl

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:58 PM - 13 Sep 2017

How we arrange the systems of finance to operate and encourage that makes renting more attractive option; also co-ownership

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

7:59 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: I think CMHC has an opportunity to do a lot more than what they’re doing right now. It has billions in equity that could be used

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:00 PM - 13 Sep 2017

They’re a crown corp that’s making gravy; they used to provide grants and helped with downpayments, long term not for profit loans

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:00 PM - 13 Sep 2017

If we could get CMHC to get back into providing those financial products to help co-ops to leverage and grow & create new opps, easy 4 them

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:01 PM - 13 Sep 2017

I think renting made sense when ppl were more able to save but today home ownership main way to save for most ppl/old age

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:02 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Major issue that relates to homeownership/renting. The land trust can hold a variety of assets & understand relationship

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:02 PM - 13 Sep 2017

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:03 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We want low volatility in our housing prices which c am be created they a land trust model, as ppl build up wealth then more ppl can come in

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:04 PM - 13 Sep 2017

<Greg comiserares on shared equity ownership modes> take U.K. In the late 90s, shared ownership became huge sector in London et al

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:04 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Imagine toronto with a few thousand new units a year of shared ownership equity, it’d be significant, a big non profit develops & holds …

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:05 PM - 13 Sep 2017

The difference between your ability to pay in equity until you can pay it off or not. 1 part of many of solution

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:06 PM - 13 Sep 2017

S: if you can change one policy, what would it be? We’re one year from next election cycles, what would you propose?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:07 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: I’m going to think provincial, province matters a lot. ON adopted a new strategy but we need a *short* term strategy w/more funding soonr

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:07 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: inter vanacy rent control!

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:08 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q&A! Q: how will inclusionary zoning hep? G: certainly one way to provide sites to co-locate aff housing with other types

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:24 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Not a golden bullet, still gonna need funding & te kind of things we talked about before the break C: land trust wld love to take adv

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:25 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: prov regs Will take effect later; what can we do to prevent watered down regs? G: tricky! C: throw it to the crowd, diverse ppl…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:26 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: what are YOU up to, how can YOU be supported? Rando: Kensington land trust! We need more young ppl involved

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:27 PM - 13 Sep 2017

R: need more people to show up and participate, generational transition. R2: chair of housing action now, re:aff housing, get involved w/us

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:28 PM - 13 Sep 2017

<there’s a third person in the crowd, mentioning I believe indigenous sovereignty? But I can’t quite make it out>

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:30 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Rachel plugs the Young Urbanist League which is a rad Facebook group you should join

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:30 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: it’s been over 20 yrs since TCH funding withdrawn, can’t one province. Raise property taxes! I think q was, what about our revenue stream

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:33 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: the city should increase its subsidy. 20 years ago the city was spending ~400M but in same period city budget has doubled…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:34 PM - 13 Sep 2017

And the city has the fiscal capacity to figure it out. C: what pieces of the city pie has grown? HECKLER: police budget!

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:35 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Rando4: also about how city assets have grown, rate at which budget grows not same as rate of subsidy Greg: yeah basically

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:36 PM - 13 Sep 2017

I missed the q, g: certainly social housing more on agenda than before C: we could definitely do more, starting to be an issue

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:37 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: this housing crisis relatively recent for middle income but always been an issue for low income who get marginalized in unfair ways

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:37 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: how do we handle speculation? G: it’s complicated, more a matter of fed and prov tax policy, in a bubble like ours that behaviour…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:39 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… is more attractive, to get investment properties, doesn’t create bubble but certainly feeds it & gov’ts need to think about it. Feds been…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:39 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… taking some steps to tweak the rules on mortgages etc. part of the picture but that behaviour doesn’t create boom in of itself

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:40 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: my dad unfortunately is an economist at the CMHC and S: unfortunately? C: well, *he* is a great dad just CMHC I have problems

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:41 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: … limited places for capital to flow, question the system we have now as speculators trying to improve their own lives, system issue

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:42 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: this is mostly buying condos to rent, roughly half the condo market & a quarter of rental market if we go back to 1970s the building of…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:42 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… rentals was done by pros but at the time rental demand that happened thru a sector structured via tax law etc made this sector happen

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:43 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Now we do rentals via investor-speculators to absorb rental deman, which then becomes part of the fuel of the boom. Structure it differently

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:44 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: OMB is being reformed, negative or positive? G: q refers to prov reducing avenues for appeal… OMB quasi judicial tribunal that rules on

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:45 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Zoning adjustments, municipal issues etc, new rules to leave more of the power with city councils. Argument is this would push prices

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:46 PM - 13 Sep 2017

G: I don’t actually know, lots of cities lack an OMB, we’ll see C: I know developers afraid of Margaret Atwood but… developers want $…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:47 PM - 13 Sep 2017

We do want an increase in supply but it has to make sense for the community and be equitable and provide aff housing in perpetuity

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:47 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: why do u think millennial aren’t flocking to housing advocacy? G: I think Ms here know better than I do; we’ve had a 2 decade period…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:48 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… where we expect less intervention from gov’t and at the time the market was working well, and that’s just how it was for ppl growing up

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:48 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Maybe folks are thinking about it. C: we have so much fish to fry? Climate change, inequality, predatory capitalism, not working for us

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:49 PM - 13 Sep 2017

I think that we have *so many issues* we are confronting we can’t even imagine our future, living day to day, housing is a pain point but

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:50 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Idk if we’ve been seeing answers and solutions that engage; hopefully land trust part of those solutions, how to think about future we want

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:50 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: do you think here’s a lack of education on the topic? C: idk if it’s education, leaders who inspired me prob not educated

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:51 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Ppl just picked it up and learned as they went along, and now they’ve created such legacies. Not easy.

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:52 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Missed q, re: Nat Housing Strat G: vi consultations, strategy end route, will create opportunities for advocacy at fed level

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:54 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Chance to advocate to the province hey here’s this framework are you going to put in more resources to make the most of it?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:54 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: within fed NHS what actions do you want to see communities take? C: fed govt negotiating w/ prov but understanding from local mp

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:56 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: co-op housing lobbies like a tobacco company, they have revenue to allow them to fund organization to access gov’t in effective strategy

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:57 PM - 13 Sep 2017

NHS will create more funding, make it more reasonable for non profits, Adam Vaughan says it’ll total $51B over ten years

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:58 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Kens land trust fellow: we got nothin we didn’t fight for! Take $15 campaign, can’t divorce issues from everything else

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

8:59 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… there are people actively working to prevent social housing, to prevent rent control, ppl are lobbying — Shaker: do you have a q?

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:00 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: I think this highlights how govt not set up to help people, systems of power set up to advantage certain groups over others

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:01 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Let’s address these systems and imagine forms of govt that satisfy the needs of most of us not just in a utilitarian way, mutual aid

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:02 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: I can put a down payment on a condo what can I do instead to create aff opportunities? G: I’m not giving financial advice!

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:02 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Solutions are not individual. Great to donate to causes if you can spare the money but not up to an individual to solve the housing crisis

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:03 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: up my alley! Buy the condo however it works for you, take care of your personal finances then provide that prop to a land trust later

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:03 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: what are other orgs that we should know about? G: housing action now, a significant body, at prov level co-op housin federation

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:05 PM - 13 Sep 2017

The Ontario non profit housing assoc, you can’t JOIN but it’s an important voice. At city lvl there’s networks, I come from Wellesley Inst…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:05 PM - 13 Sep 2017

C: uhm… @parkdaleland? I’m pretty local!

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:06 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Q: I read about all the empty bedrooms in Toronto, can we incentivize ppl rent them out? G: couple thots take it more broadly

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:07 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Homeowners renting out rooms is good and part of what’s needed and we need to adjust zoning rules. Used to have housing registries…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:08 PM - 13 Sep 2017

… but… it’s not the solution. Ppl who have he asset & don’t need the money aren’t gonna rent it out. Need to put political energy to…

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:09 PM - 13 Sep 2017

Solutions that COULD make a diff. C: we should teach boomers how to use Airbnb, get to use income in retirement, release pressure

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:10 PM - 13 Sep 2017

That’s a wrap!!!! Thanks for following along & pls join our mailing list: http://betterto.us15.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=3ce9a850cef4412ebc99f8856&id=3ffb097f37 …

— Better Toronto (@betteryyz)

9:10 PM - 13 Sep 2017

#betterto #housing #toronto #torontohousingcrisis

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