#toyah2022

[toyahinterviews]

LOUDER THAN WAR WITH NIGEL CARR 9.8.2022

TOYAH: How are you? NIGEL: Great, thank you. How are you? TOYAH: Oh really good, really good. You're not dressed for a heatwave. Where are you? NIGEL: Well, I'm sitting in a cool shed, a lodge in my garden so it's out of the sun first thing in the morning. Progressively hotter as we go through the day so I'm OK with that. If it gets hot I'll just take my top off. So how are you? You have had a busy few days, haven't you? TOYAH: Oh, I don't mind the gigs. I really love performing but the travel is a nightmare. Heathrow Airport on Saturday, all of us - Wet Wet Wet, me, Carol Decker, Chesney Hawkes, quite few others - were supposed to be on an 11 o'clock flight that got withheld by an hour So by the time we landed in Belfast I literally had to get changed in the car, run out the car onto the stage, do the show, run back into the car and get the plane back. I mean, it's just … I get so wound up by these things. The only time that you think aaah is when you're actually on stage! NIGEL: You can relax almost! 

TOYAH: I can relax (they both laugh) People always say to me "you're so energetic" and I was just so fucking happy to be here NIGEL: Well, I saw some of the photographs over the weekend. You had Rebellion Festival. Thursday, wasn't it? TOYAH: Oh! Friday, it was amazing! NIGEL: I did Friday and Saturday but I was working on Friday. So I was at the gig and I apologise so … and then you had Durham yesterday? TOYAH: Yeah, Stone Valley (below) It’s been three amazing shows. R-Fest was breathtaking. My sound man didn't realise there was a sound limit. So for my first three numbers it was so loud it was breathtaking. And then someone came with a sound monitor and said could you turn it down, please?

NIGEL: Were you in the Empress Ballroom? TOYAH: I was on the Promenade. It was huge. I loved it NIGEL: I've got the setlist and everything and it looks like a really sort of fun show   TOYAH: For me to be on the Promenade - I'm not a great performer at midnight, and when I've done that at Rebellion before, and you go on at midnight, I really feel it - it's quite hard for me to deliver my energy at that time. For me to be on in sunlight and it was very bright on Friday - with the Tower literally yards away and people were on the glass floor watching the show. I looked up and you could see people watching the show It was full,  absolutely rammed and I loved it. It was perfect for me to do an alternate festival. Going back to my punk roots at four in the afternoon for me was absolutely perfect. And I love the audience and you could hear the waves, which for me was just orgasmic. You're just hearing them hit the shore while you're singing. It's just something that I want to experience again. I really enjoyed it every minute of it. And the audience was great NIGEL: What a colourful audience. Have you ever seen it? The spiky hair, the studs, the leather jackets

TOYAH: What I really loved is you have the people who really look like that. And then you have the Blackpool holidaymakers who were wearing funny hats with mohicans. You just thought should the twain ever meet like that? It was so hard because the real punks and the real mohicans are very protective of the how they live and what they represent, standing side by side with someone with a stick-on mohican. It was fascinating NIGEL: It really was and I was walking around the venue as well around the Winter Gardens and you could see all of the hotels and the punks were sitting in deck chairs out the front TOYAH: I loved it! NIGEL:  It was just incredible. I've never seen such a colourful festival and I've been to Leeds and lots of different festivals, but where do you get such a concentration of just one mind, not one way of dressing yourself but a whole genre just represented so wholly in one place? It was incredible TOYAH: And for me, it made sense of Blackpool (Toyah on stage at Rebellion, below) because it is a hit and miss sometimes. The sun was out. You have these wonderful, diverse human beings who are always friendly. And they were everywhere. And it was the most perfect day and the most perfect world for me on that day  

Because when you look back to 45 years ago, that would have been a very different story. You'd have had riots, there would be chairs being thrown. But this was harmonious. It was beautiful. And I just thought this makes sense of Blackpool. It was the perfect place to have the festival NIGEL: Oh, absolutely right. And I was thrilled to see the mix of audiences. You talk about the locals and the punks, but I was looking down from the balcony at Cockney Rejects and the mix of people down there. It wasn't just people in the 50s and 60s who remember punk the first time and actually if they did fall over they were helping each other up - not smacking the hell out of each other. There were kids there as well, 20 year olds 

TOYAH: Very good disabled platforms as well. I can't bear it when people in wheelchairs are put right close to those speakers and they suffer for that. I looked out and I saw two fantastic platforms where they could really get the best view and they were safe. I thought it was very well designed NIGEL: Absolutely, I did as well. I thought it was fantastic. I just love the fact that when there was a skirmish in the mosh pit, there weren't people being knocked over TOYAH: They were holding each other up (both laugh) NIGEL: And another thing I noticed, and you'll know what I mean, is that there were people crowd surfing and they'd crowd surf to the front. And then like a kid with a sugar rush on a helter skelter they'd run round and do it again TOYAH: Yeah, it was great. It was perfect NIGEL: I absolutely loved it. So we're going to talk about predominantly  - you've got the tour with Billy Idol coming up, which is a fantastic event for you. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came together and how you got the -

TOYAH: A bolt out of the blue. I'm slowly learning the history of this tour, that it had to be postponed because of Covid and that The Go Go's were originally opening and ... just a bolt out of the blue. I got a phone call saying can I fit these arenas in while I'm doing my Anthem tour? Because my album Anthem is being rereleased on the 9th of September so I'm out touring that and by some really strange coincidence I can fit every one of the arena shows in. I'm wildly excited - not only about Billy Idol and I've been performing “Rebel Yell” for 20 years now - NIGEL: I noticed that on your setlist and I was going to ask you when you were going to be included - TOYAH: God no! NIGEL: Can you imagine doing “Rebel Yell” and then Billy comes on and does it TOYAH: The whole of my set - “Mony Mony”, “Rebel Yell”, “White Wedding.” “Enjoy Billy Idol!” (Nigel laughs) NIGEL: It’s like telling the best joke at a wedding, isn’t it? TOYAH: Yeah! Shouting out the answer. But another thing that's really exciting me about this tour is Television and (their album) “Marquee Moon”

NIGEL: Absolutely fantastic. I loved that when it came out in ‘79. I devoured it. I think it was amazing to see that TOYAH: And I think it's so clever of Billy and his management to do that. Because everyone is going to hear “White Wedding”, “Mony Mony” and “Rebel Yell”, and Billy has quite an extended repertoire. And I think for him to add Television and to add me with my punk history it allows people to go into the genre that Rebellion festival goes into I can play the pop, I've got “Slave To The Rhythm” coming out as a single. So we can deliver the hits, we can deliver the pop, but what I loved about Rebellion and Stone Valley this weekend - I was able to do my very first songs, which are completely out there. And this is what I'm going to try and do with the Billy Idol tour - just do the whole 45 year journey in half an hour 

NIGEL: Yeah, so you're going to be playing “It’s A Mystery”, “Thunder In The mountains” and that's a really clever thing, as you were saying, that Billy has done because you've got that New York cool going on one side and you've got the pop on your side   And then you've got Mr. Arena himself Billy Idol in the middle, which, honestly, when I saw the venues I thought my God Billy Idol is huge still! The thing that hit me that he was playing all of those … the AO Arena (in Manchester) and all that sort of thing. That was a huge venue. So you've got 3000 - 4000, no, actually, on the front of the promenade sort of 10 000 people - TOYAH: It was at least 10 000 NIGEL: I think we sold 15 000 ticket tickets, but even in the Empress Ballroom for people like Cockney Rejects, The Blockheads - there were 3000 or 4000 people in that ballroom. That was incredible. But moving up to the arenas, you're going to be talking 15-20,000 people, easily TOYAH: Yeah. Billy is a classic name now. Like Alex Cooper, like Ozzy Osbourne

NIGEL: Yeah, they fill these big arenas TOYAH: And I think it helps that Billy is a very visual artist. He's great looking. His videos are fucking amazing. When you've got all of those qualities about your historic work I think you can easily fill an arena NIGEL: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, he's got such a rich history going right the way back to Generation X of course.  So I believe that Robert’s appearing  with you which I'm thrilled to hear. Is he going to punctuate it with some prog edge? How's it going to work? TOYAH: Robert and I start touring together October 2023 with "Sunday Lunch" but you have preempted something because we are doing a premiere to it with Trevor Horn at Fairport's Cropredy Convention this Thursday (below)   NIGEL: Oh wow! TOYAH: We're in the Trevor Horn band and no one knows yet NIGEL: Can we say that?

TOYAH: Yeah! Well, my work with Robert – he is now part of the “Posh Pop” brand. Myself and Simon Darlow - we created that in lockdown with the “Posh Pop” album, which went to number one in about 36 charts. And 22 in the main chart. Robert is now part of the lineup, and we start writing “Posh Pop 2” in November. It's going to be quite a rocky album. So Robert and I are officially working together, but that's really coming in 2023

NIGEL: I'll talk about the videos later on, because I've got a few more things to go through. I just love the synergy of you two in the kitchen. It's just amazing, but I'll talk about that in a minute I just want to ask you a few questions to fill in a few holes and make the connection from the late 70s to now - so just indulge me for a second. You've always been a trailblazing woman in a man's world and an inspiration for so many    Who did you take inspiration from in the late 70s - because you were a woman working in a very, very difficult industry, acting and then you jumped into singing through “Quadrophenia” and “Glitter”. So how did that come about and what gave you the inspiration and the guts and guile to push yourself forward? TOYAH: I always intended to come to London and be a musician. My kind of rather stupid intention was using acting as a stepping stone. I got spotted on the streets of Birmingham because I was dressing like a punk when no one knew what punk was - including me  

I was a hair model, I made my own clothes and I was a hair model for Wella so my hair was pretty strange in 1975. I got spotted and I ended up starring in a half hour TV drama on BBC2 about a young girl who breaks into the Top Of The Pop studios to sing two songs NIGEL: That was “Glitter” TOYAH: “Glitter” and I had to write those songs. I'd had no experience of being in a band or of singing at a microphone until that studio experience. And then when that was seen, I was invited to join the National Theatre by which time I was 18 and that put me in an environment of musicians   And I started to learn about the London punk movement and performers like Polystyrene and performers that weren't your conventional Farrah Fawcett - Majors model type looking women. They really inspired me because I'm barely five foot tall and at that time I was three stone heavier I didn't know how I was going to fit into the music world but punk opened the doors for everyone - all diversity, all body types. And it made it possible for me and I put a band together and started to do gigs when I wasn't onstage at the National Theatre, mainly to help me get over my stage nerves which I had until about 1990. I just pushed and pushed and pushed to get gigs  

Back then (there was a) hugely healthy pub circuit. And eventually towards the end of the pub circuit time in my career we had 2000 people turning up every night blocking the roads. I still wasn't signed and Safari Records wanted to sign a “punk” act. So they signed me. No other label would touch me NIGEL: You were on Safari, but I didn't know any other bands on Safari. It wasn't a well known label at the time TOYAH: At the time you had Wayne County who's now Jane County. So historically, all of that catalogue with Safari but they also had Deep Purple NIGEL: Wow! And so that was the springboard into it TOYAH: Very much 

NIGEL: But must have been tough. So you were spotted, but it still must have been some sort of fight to get yourself out there TOYAH: It's always been a bit tough. I think if I was 6'2" and looked like Elle Macpherson, life would have been much easier. But it's always been tough. I'm relentless. I don't go away. I got “Monkey” in “Quadrophenia” because I helped Franc Roddam out by putting John Lydon through the screen tests for “Quadrophenia”   I didn't get a role and Lydon was absolutely astonishing on that screen test. He's a great actor and waiting to be discovered and I didn't get a job out of it and I just turned up at the production offices at Wembley Lee Electrics banging on the window of Franc Roddam’s office … “Give me a fucking job!!!” He called me in and he had Phil Daniels in the office with him and he said “well, if you can do the party scene with Phil now, you've got the job”. Well, Phil was in “Glitter” with me, I knew Phil. So we improvised the party scene there and then and I got the job but I think with   Franc Roddam I was not the ideal person to play “Monkey”. But he knew I just wasn't going to go away and I was up and coming. I was an award winning actress. And I was a big name within London

But it's still tough, mainly because virtually every scene I've done in a movie I've had to be on a box to do a two shot (two people in a shot together) because I'm so tiny. And that does affect you, especially in the world of Hollywood where the average actor is six foot. So I’ve really need to push and persuade people that I am the woman for the job NIGEL: Yeah, but it's really about the ability. It's about the skill. It's about the delivery. It's not really about being five foot one or whatever, it's in there, it’s in you TOYAH: Yeah, it is but a lot of British actresses are small. Judi Dench didn't break big time into movies until about the mid 80s. Up until that point she's the world's leading stage actress, leading comic TV actress and then whoomp! Straight into Hollywood and she made it possible for smaller actresses - Imogen Stubbs, myself - to be a movies because suddenly people said the talent comes first NIGEL: Absolutely. Tom Cruise is reportedly quite short, but I believe he's 5'9"or something. In a man's world 5'9" is short TOYAH: In my world it's bloody tall! (they both laugh) NIGEL: It's way up here! (points up) TOYAH: (looks up) Wow!

NIGEL: I noted you've had 96 roles, it says on IMDb. I think they include TV as well. That's a lot and it begs the question what do you prefer to do? Do you prefer the sort of kudos, maybe it's more cerebral? Having to learn the lines and being in front of a camera or getting up on stage and wowing 15 000 people. Where does the heart lie? TOYAH: They both have such a quality about them. I love performing on camera, and that's probably the only acting I'll do now. I don't think I'm going to do stage again. Unless it's like the National Theatre where you only do four shows a week NIGEL: I saw you in Manchester (the stage play of Derek Jarman's “Jubilee”, below)

TOYAH: It's backbreaking doing eight shows a week and I don't feel my body can take that anymore. But as a performer to be in a state of performance, whether I'm singing or acting, is absolute nirvana for me. It's my commune with God, it's unbeatable and there is no choice between the two. I love going into an area of that life, that supernatural, and for me performance is supernatural. I could never give it up. I would go cold turkey and die. It's such a remarkably rewarding thing to do NIGEL: The part itself - the learning the lines, that immersing yourself into a character … is that what you're talking about? Or the people and crew around you, the support that you get. Is that what it is? TOYAH: What support? (Toyah cackles) NIGEL: (laughs) Well ... you know I mean TOYAH: I just won Best Critics Award at the Richard Harris Festival for “Give Them Wings” as Best Actress, which premiered in Leicester Square last week. I was working in five degrees in a silk slip in bare feet on the street in Durham in winter in 2019 when we shot that! The reward is for me the kind of schizophrenic escape   

So when I’m learning lines and when I'm unravelling what the character is words give you every bit of information you need. It's like taking the best holiday to the Bahamas you can take because you don't know what the hotel's going to be like. You don't know what the weather's going to be like It's all about discovering something that is governed by words and I just adore it. When I'm on stage singing - the words and how you deliver those words and the breathing techniques you use to deliver those words just take you into a higher consciousness. And I just couldn't live without doing that NIGEL: Yeah. So actually, there's a lot to be taken from both. You can immerse yourself into acting, you can immerse yourself into the singing. I suppose with the singing you are singing more of your own words, your own creations and I guess that must give you extra. I can't imagine the feeling of writing something, a tune and words and having those people jumping around to it 

TOYAH: And the word is immersion. It's total immersion when you're singing. It's not just about the breathing and the delivery. It's about listening. And you're having to listen to every member of the band and come back into timing, because once you get expressive, you move out of timing. I've only really learned in recent years to use a motion on the downbeat. So to finish a word quicker rather than hold the note because it has more impact And another thing is learning about impact - music doesn't always come from having the bass end revved up. It comes from the harmonic interaction between the guitar, the keys, and the voice and all of that. So you've got your foot right down on the accelerator when you're doing a gig and you never take your foot off it. With acting most of the time you're working to a camera with an ensemble of actors but the other side of the camera, you've got people scratching their asses, yawning, eating, texting on their mobiles, reading the newspaper and that is terrifying Especially if you've got to cry on cue, and you've got someone who's just got their finger up their nose in your eyeline. It is extraordinary and when you hear stories of the A-listers losing it on set, because someone is distracting them in their eyeline, it's quietly terrifying when you are carrying a whole day shoot that costs sometimes over 1 million pounds to run the film on that day. And you're dealing with someone in your eyeline who's texting or looking at porn on their phone. The responsibilities are huge, but at the same time the rewards are bigger 

NIGEL: Yeah. You often go to the screenings and when you get to that it must be an amazing feeling to see how it’s put together 

TOYAH: I never go to the screenings. With “Give Them Wings” (above, Toyah as Alice Hodgson with Daniel Watson as Paul Hodgson) I've got all these awards for it and its started to be available for streaming now. I will look at it now. But I have to say the context of the awards and the good reviews and for me the reviews have been phenomenal, makes it possible for me to watch it NIGEL: Absolutely. There's been a huge renaissance in punk and post - punk and all of that type of music. It's like your time has come again, isn't it? That everything sort of converged in this perfect storm and I follow a lot of bands and a lot of bands that have burst out of Manchester and they've helped bring back this post - punk wave   I'm listening to “IEYA”, one of your core tracks and I love it and it sits slightly out of the “It’s A Mystery” “Thunder In The Mountains”. It's more sort of post - punk. It's more Siouxsie and the Banshees than anything else. It’s an amazing thing that this wave has almost hit perfectly for you

TOYAH: Yeah. I think the thing about “IEYA” and all my early stuff ... there were slight influences of prog rock in there - which was purely by mistake. I grew up in Birmingham. I was 11 when I saw Hawkwind and Black Sabbath, I grew up with Led Zeppelin. So all those influences were with me and when I discovered punk, what I discovered as a dyslexic was a form of music I could fit into but I still had in my memory the music I saw live for the first time   “IEYA” started its life as an improvisation because we needed to do so many encores on our shows. In ‘77,’78,‘79,1980 ... We were that large. We’d do 10 encores. So we just came up with “IEYA” and we’d play it for 36 minutes like a kind of tribal trance NIGEL: It goes to your bowels and it can just go on forever TOYAH: Just goes on and on and on until people just pass out. I can remember one performance we did the band was so hot they were down to their underpants and Phil Spalding was vomiting in a bucket. It just was going on and on and on and we couldn't stop it. So “IEYA” started as a live improvisation in front of screaming punks

NIGEL: That's amazing. And just going back to the very early days - because I do a radio show and in anticipation of this interview I played “Victims Of The Riddle” and it's almost avant - garde in its construction and in the way that it's delivered. There's a big difference between “Victims Of The Riddle” to “It’s A Mystery”. That was a massive jump. How did that happen? TOYAH: “Victims Of The Riddle” was an improvisation at two in the morning. So Steve James, wonderful producer, two in the morning. I said "just play three notes". Keith Hale played three notes. We looped those notes because everyone was into looping then, it was the beginning of synthesisers I said "give me a microphone" and I did a 20 minute improvisation, which is on the re-release of “Sheep Farming In Barnet”. So everything about the single is in that improvisation. And then Steve James and Keith Hale edited it into that single so it is avant - garde. Totally avant - garde NIGEL: It really is

TOYAH: It is the most extraordinary vocal and a 20 minute improvisation. I have to say is fucking amazing! NIGEL: Yeah, it is. It's an amazing track. And I like I said I played it in the middle of the show in anticipation of this, I absolutely love it. But there's a big jump from that to “It’s A Mystery” TOYAH: Yeah. Keith Hale wrote “It’s A Mystery”. I contributed the second verse, but I was never, ever credited as that and I certainly don't earn royalties off it. But Keith Hale had a band called Blood Donor who I regularly sang with and I did a lot of demos for them Keith had written this long song called “It's A Mystery”. It had a 12 minute vocal at the top and a 20 minute instrumental and Safari felt that that was going to be a hit song for me. So Keith and I went into the studio with (the producer) Nick Tauber and arranged the into the single  that everyone knows. So the record label Safari were desperate to iron out my avant - garde approach to everything NIGEL: Make it more pop

TOYAH: Make it more pop. I was complicit. I wanted success. Absolutely every other punk rocker around me was having major success so I was complicit in how that journey happened NIGEL: You immersed yourself in it and allowed yourself to be transformed into, well … they call you the Punk Priestess, don’t they? (laughs) TOYAH: Yeah   NIGEL: With the big hair - who styled all the hair and everything? Was that from the hair styling days?

TOYAH: The big hair started with “Thunder In The Mountains” (below) when I was in a shoot with the very famous fashion photographer John Swannell, and he brought in Robert Lobetta, who is a hair designer and Lobetta had spent a week making these amazing peacock fans that they attached to my head and then we had to find a way of making that work live   So live I would just back comb my very thick hair and have big sunflower hair, but I kind of adopted that with the makeup artist Richard Sharah on “Thunder In The Mountains” art work and never looked back. That really caught on NIGEL: It’s an iconic look. Like a huge peacock. It was just absolutely amazing TOYAH: And very, very satisfying at that time because it made look a foot taller

NIGEL: Yes, of course! Absolutely. Now, I have to ask you about "Sunday Lunch" because I watched some of the early ones and they were quite modest and then they got more flamboyant (laughs) TOYAH: We were learning as we went along NIGEL: You’ve got 430 000 people watching one video. It's incredible! TOYAH: Yeah. And we've now had 111 million hits. We discovered as we went on that heavy rock, and the more extreme the rock, like Rammstein and all those wonderful bands - the more views we'd get and we think it's the simplicity of the kitchen   There's no production values. We do one take. Sometimes, like Alice Cooper's “Poison” we did 21 takes, but most of the time we do one take, and we just go with that. And some people prefer to listen with the sound off because they can’t bear the sound (Nigel laughs)

But we discovered … when we did Metallica's “Enter Sandman” and I didn't wear a bra and I was on the exercise bike we hit 10 million very, very quickly. And we thought we're onto something here NIGEL: A bit saucy TOYAH: We say it’s our “Carry On”. It’s rock’n’roll “Carry On”. I am the Barbara Windsor of rock and roll NIGEL: What I love is the way Robert sort of looks into your bosom and goes (shakes his head) TOYAH: Yeah. For Robert … he just likes having a hot wife. The way Robert sees it is “look, I'm Robert Fripp, I've got a hot wife”. He's not possessive or jealous at all. But he really does like me to look his ideal of hot which is very 1970s Benny Hill NIGEL: He comes across as such a lovely man. I remember when you came out of the jungle (on “I’m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here”) and think Robert was waiting for you and he was almost in tears. You have this very special relationship that really comes across, not just in the media, but on those videos as well. You can tell there's true love between you. It's lovely to see

TOYAH: We are that cliche that we are soulmates and best friends and I think it helps that we are like chalk and cheese and we don't hold each other back. If he wants to go to the States for two months he goes, if I want to go off and make a movie for two months I go. There's never compromise and I think that helps us a lot NIGEL: What do you attribute that to, that relationship? I read somewhere that you lived in separate houses. I’ve read a lot for this interview!

TOYAH: For the first 20 years we lived in separate houses and then for the last 10 years we lived in the same house. And as of three years ago, we now have separate houses again. I just let him be what he needs to be. It's as simple as that. And he needs a hell of a lot of time alone. And funnily enough, I do too. And we we both give each other that space NIGEL: It's fabulous. I love watching your videos. I think they're absolutely amazing. And I look forward to the next one coming out and I wish you well with them. You said you were going to do some sort of extra stuff on those videos or a film or something. What did you say? TOYAH: In October 2023 we're touring “Sunlay Lunch” NIGEL: Oh, I see. You're going to do “Back In Black” and you're doing maybe “Poison”, all of those live on stage? TOYAH: Yes NIGEL: You have some special costumes coming for that tour then, have you? (laughs) TOYAH: Yeah. Basically it's going to be an absolutely stonking rock show, but it's all based around “Sunday Lunch” 

NIGEL: Look, Toyah, it's been an absolute joy talking to you TOYAH: Thank you NIGEL: We are running out of time and I don't want to take up more of your time. I've loved talking to you and I really wish you well for the tour with Billy, I think it's going to be amazing TOYAH: I’m so excited! I love arenas! NIGEL: Bet you are! It will be absolutely great and it's an opportunity for all of those people to see, 1000s and 1000s of people in those arenas. You must be so excited! TOYAH: It's thrilling, absolutely thrilling. I think I excel, I'm better Toyah in that environment than I am at home. So I'm very excited NIGEL: Fabulous. Thank you so much, Toyah. Thanks for talking to me. A joy talking to you TOYAH: Thanks, Nigel. See you out there NIGEL: Take care! TOYAH: OK! Bye! 

[toyahinterviews]

XS NOIZE PODCAST WITH MARK MILLER 25.8.2022

MARK: In a career spanning more than 40 years Toyah Willcox has had  Top 40 singles, released over 20 albums, written two books, appeared in over 40 stage plays and 10 feature films and voiced and presented numerous television shows. In this interview, Toyah talks about her upcoming tour with Billy Idol, touring her hit 80s album “Anthem”, her Sunday Lunch videos with husband Robert Fripp, acting and lots lots more Hi Toyah, welcome to the XS Noize podcast TOYAH: Thank you very much, good to be here MARK: You've had such an amazing career and you're still very busy so we'll have lots to talk about. But first of all, let's talk a bit about the Billy Idol tour. You’re joining Billy Idol on the October dates of his tour alongside Television. How much are you're looking forward to those shows? TOYAH: Really looking forward to it. Firstly, Billy Idol - I think he's a world icon and he has such an incredible career of music to perform. I've been performing “Rebel Yell” in my set for 20 years and I know the effect it has on the audience. I'm very I'm excited about that. Obviously, I won't be performing “Rebel Yell” with Billy Idol (laughs)

But I think it's a really great line up. You've got Television doing the whole of “Marquee Moon”, which is an album I bought when I first moved to London. It's a phenomenal album. And then I've got my set to open all of the events and I know I'm gonna have a lot of fun   When you're on a multi-bill but you're not the main star it's really good fun, because you just go out there, you love the audience, you enjoy what you're doing and then it's over. You can relax. So I'm really looking forward to it on many levels. And I actually love arena shows. I love doing them. So I'm going to be in my element  

MARK: You're well known for your image, so do you have an outfit planned ready to go? TOYAH: Absolutely everything is planned on the rehearsal, the setlist is done. The costume is ready, everything is and if you think I'm going to tell you … I'd have to shoot you afterwards MARK: What can fans expect? What sort of songs? A medley of hits really?     TOYAH: Yeah, I mean, I've had well over 15 chart hits, probably a bit more than that and I'm only playing for half an hour. So what is that going to be? Eight songs, ten if we really kind of squeeze them in. It's got to be hits. I want to go right from the beginning of my very early punk hits, because I was number one in the first indie charts. So 24 months running when that first indie chart came out in ‘79 I was number one. I never left number one in that chart. So I want to include my punk hits, which not many of today's generations will know at all. But I want to go through a complete journey right up until the single I release next Friday, which is “Slave To The Rhythm”

MARK: Last Saturday you played Let’s Rock Northern Ireland alongside Adam Ant, Belinda Carlisle, Heaven 17, Howard Jones, Wet Wet Wet and many more. You went down really really well. Everybody thought you were brilliant. How much do you enjoy - TOYAH: I had a nighmare getting there. A plane was an hour late. I was with Chesney Hawkes, Chesney and I had to get undressed and dressed in the car. We got out the car, I walked on stage. I did my show and I had an extra two songs in the set that I wasn't aware of     So I was announcing songs and the band was going “no, it's this!” It was so much fun. It was brilliant and the audience were amazing and then I walked off stage, got in the car and caught the plane back. I have never been so stressed in my life purely because of travel MARK: Well, I thought because it's maybe old friends like Adam Ant, who you go way back with, back to the Mayhem days and stuff like that but you don't get to see each other and say hi really?

TOYAH: I saw Belinda. I was flying with Wet Wet Wet. I was flying with Chesney, Carol Decker, the bass player from Wet Wet Wet. We had some of the Real Thing there with us. We know each other, we're all incredibly supportive and good friends, but we do only get to meet in airport lounges. So it was fabulous. It was really nice MARK: This coming September Cherry Red will release a remastered edition of your gold selling third album “Anthem”. The album reached n:o 2 in the UK charts and features the Top 10 singles “It’s A Mystery” and “I Want To Be Free”. What do you remember about making that album because it’s such a classic album? 

TOYAH: It was a very busy time, because “It’s A Mystery” was an enormous hit before we even started the album. And it meant that we had to make the album in a very tight window of two weeks. So when the band were in the studio putting the backing tracks down they were sending me tapes every day to Norwich where I was starring in “Tales Of The Unexpected”. As soon as I finished that I got back to London and in the mornings I would write the lyric and the top line melody to what the band had created, go into the studio by 2pm and record that song. Sometimes I had to do two songs a day It was a fabulous time. We were absolutely riding on this incredible success of “It’s A Mystery” and the album was an absolute joy to make but boy, I wasn't getting much sleep. And we were trying new sounds, we were trying new arrangements and it was all happening in this magical 14 day period that we had. And touch wood it worked. It really worked. I've never known anything like it

MARK: I can remember watching your first Top of the Pops performance of “It’s A Mystery”. It's such an iconic 80s moment for me. So how amazing was it for you? What can you remember about your first performance on Top Of The Pops?

TOYAH: I was very nervous. I believe Adam Ant was on because he was number one. I think Joe Dolce was on with "Shaddap Your Face", Midge Ure was on. It's a long day and I went to theatre school. I started in theatre before I ever had hit singles. I've made movies, been at the National Theatre. So I know a lot about turning up on time, rehearsing and then delivering. So it wasn't a problem to me, but we'd arrive at the Top Of The Pops studios at 10.30 in the morning. You do at least five rehearsals on camera and then go to makeup. And then you're on standby for the live show   It wasn't a problem for me. But on this day, I was quite nervous and completely overawed by the experience. Because Top Of The Pops was the one show that every generation watched for the whole of their lives. I can remember sitting in the lounge with the whole of my family watching Top Of The Pops in complete quietness. We listened and to suddenly be on this show and to know that I was going to have a really high chart position because of this show was just overwhelming and magical. If I only could pick 10 points in my life to take away with me and remember in the big blue sky … Top Of The Pops, that very first one would be up there. It was amazing

MARK: Yeah, it's definitely one of my favourites because all the reruns on Top Of The Pops, you see it now and again popping up and it's obviously on YouTube, it’s had millions and millions of views. It's fantastic. The outfit you wore on that show – you were supposed to wear something else instead? Was it that one? TOYAH: Melissa Caplan made all of my costumes from about ‘78 through to 1985. And the costume I wanted - she was making me a very special one. I think I'd already done The Rainbow. Let me have a think about this, because this is such a condensed piece of my history. I know that we played The Rainbow about January or February and I think “It’s A Mystery” charted towards mid-February. So Melissa couldn't get the costume ready in time for Top Of The Pops because we were all firing on all cylinders, kind of working through the night recording and still doing live shows and me filming as an actress  

So I had what was a design made by Willie Brown (below), who did all the clothes for David Bowie when he did “Heroes”. It's a really beautiful dress and it's not a dress I would normally have worn other than in a photo session because I was still very much working at androgyny and not being too feminine. And I actually think this dress is responsible for my success as is the song “It’s A Mystery” itself because I looked so cute and so feminine. I wasn't scaring anyone on that first Top Of The Pops

MARK: Do you still have the outfit? TOYAH: I do. It has kind of organza shoulders and it’s starting to deteriorate but I still have it and it can be restored because all my costumes are going to go to the Victoria and Albert Museum. But it's something that can't see sunlight or the air anymore. It’s vacuum packed MARK: You're so busy. Last year you released “Posh Pop”, written and recorded during lockdown, it was your first album in 13 years. That's a great album, very uplifting. I love the opening track “Levitate” TOYAH: Oh, that's good! I like that track as well. It was lockdown. I am not someone who  sits around doing nothing. So lockedown actually was the first opportunity I ever had in the whole of my career to just reassess and re-evaluate, like lots of people out there    It was a chance to kind of reset who or what we wanted to be. And the silence of lockdown. And what I mean by that is no one was emailing me every minute and no one was phoning me. It meant that I could sit down at an instrument and start writing music. I took up guitar in lockdown as well

And “Levitate” was one of the first songs written because we wanted the song to be - Simon Darlow my co-writer (below with Toyah) and I - just about freedom, freedom of choice, about being able to leave the house, being able to write about a situation that was profoundly uncomfortable and quite honestly terrifying. So “Levitate” is literally about that word And it's also one of my favourite words that I can ever remember. When I was at school everyone was fascinated with this word. Levitate. Levitation. And there was a very famous saint, who became canonised, because he levitated while praying and I started to read up about him and ironically, he was Italian. I can't remember his proper name now. But it was such a problem for him that crowds would turn up during the services, during his holding service with his his flock and he would start to levitate and he said or it's kind of reported that he found it profoundly embarrassing that he was known for levitating   

And you've got eyewitness accounts of this happening. So people would go along and I'm talking about mediaeval times. People would go along and record this happening, they would draw it happening, they would write about it happening, they would pass the stories to their children. I've just always loved that word. It's a word that says that we have so much potential, that we almost cannot control our potential. And that's where “Levitate” came from MARK: As much as the album is uplifting, the song “Barefoot On Mars” is about your mother's final days in the hospice. It’s very moving and and it's very emotional but it sounds upbeat 

TOYAH: Yeah. I wrote the lyrics after finding out what happened to my mother. I was contacted by ancestry.com Christmas last year. Was it Christmas last year? This is the problem with lockdown. I've lost so much time. It must have been two Christmases ago. And we knew nothing about my mother, my mother never talked to us. She never told us about her history. We could trace back press cuttings on her because she was a child actress and a dancer and she used to get reviews from the age of 12 So I'd seen all of that but she wouldn't talk about it. But ancestry.com contacted me and they said “we need to talk to you and we need to have counsel in the room because you do not know about this - we have unearthed press cuttings” and it appeared that my mother witnessed her father murder her mother, but because my mother was so young she couldn't give evidence and she couldn't go to court and testify   And I came back home after finding that out and I wrote the lyric for “Barefoot On Mars” and I wrote to Simon Darlow and I said “this is what's just happened to me”. And I've written this lyric and I went into the studio the next day, and he’d done the track. And it was so breathtakingly beautiful that we just recorded it there and then. That song came about very quickly

MARK: Yeah, it's a great lyric, great song. Along with your husband and guitar legend Robert Fripp you have over 110 million hits on YouTube with your Sunday Lunch series of weekly music videos. They're all brilliant. What inspired you to do these? And how did you get Robert on board? TOYAH: Well, again as a performer, as someone who's always worked on a stage to suddenly think that it's going to be longer than three weeks because the lockdown originally was only going to be three weeks and I'd be back out on the road and it was dragging on and on and on. And I just thought we're all equal in this. We're all in the same situation. And some people are alone and we have each other. So we posted a very short 29 second video of me teaching Robert to do the jive and he's so cute in it because he just can't do it

And that instantly got 100,000 hits within about five minutes and we realised there were people out there that just needed contact. So we started to do this every Sunday. And it just grew and grew and grew and slowly we realised why it was growing and it is because the world audience for rock music is massive, absolutely massive. And we kept it to the simplicity of this kitchen. It didn't used to be this kitchen, we'd work in other rooms around the house, but people identified on a Sunday lunchtime with their own kitchens. So that's why it became traditionally that MARK: I think from the first video a lot of people were saying you should appear on “Strictly Come Dancing”, that they would ask you? TOYAH: I know. No, no. None of those programmes are interested in me. So fair enough. I'm too busy anyway MARK: So you wouldn't do it?

TOYAH: I would but they've got to be interested in you. I can't phone them up and say I want to do it. It doesn't work that way. I'm very, very busy. “Strictly” has already started. I am touring “Anthem”, and I'm working with Billy Idol. You've got to be completely 100% available if you get any of those programmes and for me that's very rare MARK: You would be great on it, definitely TOYAH: I don't know about that. I'm 64, I think it's a very gruelling show to do. I'm not sure how I would cope with training and all those pivotal movements within your joints for 11 hours a day. I did go and see a recording of it all lockdown. And they did back to back shows. They did the live show on the Saturday and then did the show for the Sunday immediately after and I thought my God - this is so gruelling! MARK: Going back to your videos. How long does it take to put them together? And how do you choose which songs to perform every week?

TOYAH: Well, the songs have to have one vital ingredient and that's they translate on guitar. So I give Robert a whole list of songs every week that I think would visually really work very well. And then he kind of goes through all of them and see how they work on one guitar. Because he's not only playing lead lines, he's also playing bass lines as well, which is what's so remarkable about what he's doing. And if he can't make that work, we can't do the song. Sometimes I can encourage him to revisit an idea and say “look, I think you can do this on one guitar” and he'll give it a go and it works. But there are so many elements that we have to take into account   Firstly, we have no production values whatsoever. We just come in. We have a few days rehearsal where we learn the song together. Then I do the setup. I work out what the trick is going to be within the setup. And then I bring him in, we sit down and we usually have the first take in one go. So there's a lot of kind of little bits that need to come together at the right time. And if Robert is worried about the song then it won't work

MARK: I enjoyed your most recent one. Ozzy Osbourne’s “Crazy Train” (above) TOYAH: I know! Brilliant!  And he closed the Commonwealth Games last night and I'm 30 miles from Birmingham, and I'm a Birmingham girl as well. And we didn't know he was going to do that. So it was really well timed that one MARK: You mentioned at the start about your latest single “Slave To The Rhythm”. It’s an amazing version and I’m really pleased you’re releasing it but I did some research for this and you sang on the original demo. Is that right? TOYAH: Yeah. The original was written by Simon Darlow, my long term writing partner and he asked me to sing on it and then the demo went out I believe to Frankie Goes To Hollywood. And they didn't want to do it. They wanted to rewrite the lyric. And then Simon met up with Trevor Horn and another writer and producer and it became the “Slave To The Rhythm” that Grace Jones has made. This is the iconic version that Grace Jones did. So it's had quite a journey through a few writers, but it began with Simon Darlow

And Simon said to me that he really felt that as I was involved at the very beginning purely as the session singer, should we give it a go? And I was a bit worried about it. Firstly, Grace Jones owns it. It's very much her brilliant iconic performance, but also as someone who allies towards everyone that's been exploited and abused through history ... Grace Jones has a right to that song   I was really worried about doing it. And Simon said, well, actually, his reference is that we're all slaves to time. That none of us can escape time. So that's the way we've approached it. So within the video we have the theme of time just ticking away with the fingers. So that's how Simon said we should address it MARK: I look forward to hearing it. I love the version on your Sunday Lunch. I'd love to hear the actual proper studio recorded version TOYAH: It’s a beautiful version. It's very, very brilliant and respectful. And we've not trodden on Grace Jones' toes at all. I deliver it in a very gentle way. So it's lovely

MARK: You also mentioned Trevor Horn, and Frankie Goes To Hollywood and I hear you've recorded a version of “Relax” with Trevor Horn. So how did that come about and when can we hear that?

TOYAH: Well, I can't tell you too much about it other than we're working with Trevor this week. We've got a live show with him this week as well.  Trevor heard our version of “Slave To The Rhythm” via one of the writers seeing me perform it live for the first time that G Live in Guilford. And that was Bruce Wolley, who is one of the new co-writers on the song. He’s in the history of that song  

He came to the show and he heard me perform it live. And he got in touch with Trevor and he said "you've got to hear this. It's really good". And Trevor phoned me and said would I come into the studio and record “Relax”. It's a very, very different version. His original idea was for the voice to be artificial intelligence. But the label turned that down and he wanted me to sing it in my deepest register. It absolutely gorgeous. It's so beautiful. It is actually romantic

MARK: Great. Can't wait to hear that and Trevor Horn, what an amazing producer

TOYAH: He’s breathtaking to work with. As soon as I put the headphones on to do the harmonies in the studio I thought my God this is best sound I've ever had in the studio! It was fabulous

MARK: Trevor Horn, his records just sound amazing. Recently, the BBC showed your first ever professional screen role as “Sue” and the play “Glitter” (above) with Phil Daniels and Noel Edmunds. In the show Sue says “I want to be so famous that I'm a household name all over the world”. Sue’s dream was to be on Top Of The Pops. That it was shown in 1976 so it's amazing to think that the real Toyah Willcox achieved this soon. There  was definitely some sort of weird synchronicity going on there TOYAH: I know, it's absolutely fabulous. I had to audition for that role. I was spotted by the Bicat brothers and they called me down to London and I did the audition with Phil Daniels. With no knowledge at all that we both end up in “Quadrophenia” together a few years later. I've never been on camera. I've never sung into a microphone. I only had this idealistic dream of becoming a singer. I had opera lessons at school, I sang at school but that was opera, that was not rock music

And I remember making “Glitter” so clearly because I was just living the dream. But I had no technical experience. I had no experience of projecting my voice or placing words. I was completely raw and I think that shows in “Glitter”. But somehow the National Theatre watched it being broadcast at the end of ‘76 and they cast me in “Tales From The Vienna Woods” and by that Christmas I was living in London, about to open on the Olivier stage at the National Theatre   I leapfrogged about 15 years of experience. And the National was great to me. They gave me speech therapy, they gave me movement lessons. They really tried to kind of hone my talent. But “Giltter” was the turning point in my life for everything. It was the biggest piece of luck I have ever had in my life MARK: Yeah it’s good actually, watched it this morning. Really enjoyed it TOYAH: What did you think of it? MARK: Yeah, I really liked it. Noel Edmunds was good TOYAH: Would you say I was good?

MARK: Yeah, absolutely. And Phil Daniels TOYAH: Phil’s always good. He's been in front of the camera all his life MARK: For your first ever professional performance it was great TOYAH: You’re very kind MARK: I really, really enjoyed it. And again, Phil as you said, starred as “Jimmy Cooper” alongside yourself as “Monkey” (below) in the classic movie “Quadrophenia”. Can we talk about this because it's one of my favourite films. It's such a classic movie with an amazing cast. Did you think  how special it was when you were making it? 

TOYAH: It's a very good question because there is no way that cast would not let it be special. Up until that point, I had always kind of worked in an isolation of being the youngest in the company. So I'd made “Jubilee”, which I loved every minute of. I was working with the glitterati of London punk. People with way more life experience than me and they kind of protected me 

And then I made the “The Corn Is Green” with Katharine Hepburn and George Cukor and again, I was cosseted. I was the youngest. And when I stepped onto the set of “Quadrophenia”, or even for the rehearsals, because we did a lot of prep rehearsals for that film -   suddenly I was no longer the youngest and I was in a group of about 50 people who were all determined to be superstars. And you just had to step up to the mark   It was an incredible experience. And were all great friends. We all really really loved each other. But boy, we were fighting for the limelight. And we knew it was going to be special. How could a film where the music was written by Pete Townsend and The Who had performed that music for years and years and years ... How could this film not be a success?  

But ironically, when it first screened, it was critically panned. But audiences loved it. I think it was 1979 we shot it, 1980 it was released. Generation after generation around the world has discovered this film and loved it and it even still has conventions in Los Angeles

MARK: It's a great film. Absolutely classic. Is it true that John Lydon tried out as “Jimmy” and you read with him for the part? TOYAH: I got John through the screen test at Shepperton Studios. So Franc Roddam - I haven't even been cast in the film at this point, because I was working at the Royal Court Theatre, and had amazing reviews for my stage acting - Franc Roddam got me to do two scenes with John Lydon at Shepperton on camera, on a huge 36 mil camera. So I used to meet up with John Lydon in his apartment off the Kings Road and we'd run the scenes. He was perfect. He was word perfect. He was fabulous And when we got to Shepperton we just did the scenes. I played Leslie Ash’s role and John was doing Phil Daniel's role, and he was really, really special. And he behaved, he was a gentleman, he was great to be with, but no one would insure the film if he was in it. Now I have to stick up for both John Lydon and Phil Daniels here. Because if the issue was different, I think John Lydon would have gone on to be a great Hollywood actor    

Phil Daniels was the only person who could really play “Jimmy,” because of Phil’s life experience. He was right for “Jimmy.” Phil Daniels gave an Oscar winning performance in that film, but obviously he didn't get any nominations because it just didn't happen. But Phil Daniels is the reason that film is so successful

MARK: You couldn't imagine the film without him at all or without the rest of the cast because everybody went on to make something of themselves. What draws you to a movie, what do you look for in a part? TOYAH: The one main factor is can I do it? Because sometimes I'm offered unrealistic things. I'm physically very small. And I now warn people I say "look, it's very kind of you to offer me this but if you're going to cast me next to people who are 6’2”, the director and the camera team are going to have real problems getting us in two shots." Two shots is where you've got two characters in one shot. So I now look for the fact can I portray that character with my physicality? And is it a character that I can really use my intelligence on?

If it's just a character where they need Toyah Willcox in the film so my name is on the poster ... I don't do those. I really don't do those. I'm an incredibly intelligent actress. My dyslexia just really informs me about people. And I really want characters that I can reveal to an audience. So that may sound complex, but there is so much you can do without saying words, and I look for that in the storyline MARK: Some people forget you were an actress first before you were a pop star. Do you have any film projects coming up? TOYAH: Well, lockdown has not helped the industry that much. So I had a film show at Leicester Square last week called “Give Them Wings”, which I won the critics Best Actress Award at the Richard Harris Film Festival. I'm playing the mother of the lead in that and I've had phenomenal reviews for that film, but that was shot just before lockdown started. During lockdown I managed to make “The Ghosts Of Borley Rectory”  

Again, I've had Best Actress nominations for that. So the film industry is now getting back on its feet with a backlog of movies waiting to find a cinema and a distribution deal. And I think it's going to take a long time for cinema to find its feet again. Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney - they've all gone straight to streaming and at the moment that is where the industry is at MARK: In a career spanning more than 40 years you've had loads of Top 40 singles, released over 20 albums, written two books, appeared in over 40 stage plays and voiced and presented numerous television shows. So with all that in mind … what are you most proud of? What’s been your highlights? Can you pick anything out? TOYAH: Highlight ... probably doing Old Grey Whistle Test at Drury Lane on Christmas Eve 1981 (below) That had 12 million viewers but it was such an honour to be invited to do that. Other highlights “Posh Pop” going to number one in 36 charts. Getting a call from Trevor Horn after 45 years in the business was pretty flattering. I get up to a great job. For 45 years I've woken up to a great job. So I'm very grateful for everything I do     

MARK: Yeah, I’m sure. Just a few more questions, Toyah. You’ve so much energy. What keeps you going after all these years?

TOYAH: It’s probably because I never had children. I've got a lot of energy and a lot of money (they both laugh) I don't want to be flippant about it. But everyone I know with children I think how the hell do you do that?!

MARK: I like to ask the guests the following questions, Toyah. Out of all the music in your collection which artists or bands do you have the most albums by?

TOYAH: David Bowie

MARK: And what is your favourite?        

TOYAH: My favourite David Bowie album - I've actually got three – “Man Who Sold The World”, “Hunky Dory” and “Ziggy Stardust”. I just love the path he took. It's a very, very tangible path where you could see him just changing through desperation because “Hunky Dory” was a really hard time for him as an artist. He had shotguns held to his head in Texas. Andy Warhol was really nasty to him. And you just saw this ascending trajectory into “Ziggy Stardust” through these albums. And even on “Man Who Sold The World” you could hear my husband's King Crimson influence. So I just love those three albums MARK: Absolute genius. We miss him TOYAH: Yeah MARK: Which song or album is your guilty pleasure? TOYAH: “Bridge Over Troubled Water.” That album is just one of the most beautifully written and performed albums in the whole history of modern music MARK: Would you say it's a guilty pleasure? I love it TOYAH: Well, l I love it but you've got to remember people go “you’re a punk rocker!”

MARK: Yeah, that's right (laughs) You're not supposed to like stuff like that. But nowadays everybody can like anything and it doesn't matter TOYAH: Then there's no such thing as a guilty pleasure, is there? MARK: (laughs) You got me there. Such an amazing career. We could talk for a long time. I had to just pick certain things, there's lots more things we could have talked about, but it's an absolute honour and pleasure to be speaking to you TOYAH: Thank you very much. You obviously know a lot about me, and I'm very grateful. Thank you MARK: There's lots more and we have a short period of time, we could spend hours (Toyah laughs)  Good luck with the new single and I can't wait to hear “Relax” TOYAH: All right. Thank you very much. Good to meet you MARK: To meet you too. Bye

TOYAH: Bye bye

[toyahinterviews]

MY TIME CAPSULE WITH MICHAEL FENTON STEVENS 24.1.2022

MICHAEL: I'm Michael Fenton Stevens, and this is the podcast where we talk about the fascinating subject of sandpaper grades. Well, it might as well be because in each episode I talk to a different guests about the five things from their life that they'd like to preserve in a time capsule Four things they love and one thing they wish they could forget. Something from their past that they wish they could bury in the ground and never have to think about again. Some are bound to be sandpaper grades one day ... Perhaps my guest in this episode, the pop star, musician, actor, TV presenter, writer, and famous woodworker - no, actually, that's just about the only thing that Toyah Willcox hasn't done. Yes, my special guest is the amazing Toyah, one of the very few people where one name is enough. Paraphrasing her career or careers Toyah has had eight Top 40 singles, she's released over 20 albums, written two books, appeared in over 40 stage plays, acted in 10 feature films and numerous television shows

Toyah is married to the musician and rock legend Robert Fripp, founder and guitarist of the prog rock group King Crimson. And as a musician and singer herself Toyah has toured 33 times since 1979. Her films include “Jubilee”, “Quadrophenia”, and Derek Jarman's “The Tempest” and she's appeared on TV in “Shoestring”, “Minder”, “Tales Of The Unexpected”, “French and Saunders”, “Kavanagh QC”, “Secret Diary Of A Call Girl”, “Casualty”, and as the narrator of the “Teletubbies” and my personal favourite “Brum” She's also had the misfortune of working with me in a stage production of “Amadeus”, which we talk a bit about in this recording. So let's hear what from all this the extraordinary Toyah Willcox chooses to put in her time capsule Toyah, how fantastic to have you on “My Time Capsule”. I can't believe it, it's so lovely to see you. After all these years!

TOYAH: How many years is it? MICHAEL: Well, it must have been - TOYAH: It was “Amadeus”, wasn't it? MICHAEL: It was “Amadeus”. That's right. We did a tour of “Amadeus”. 1990 - TOYAH: Great tour! MICHAEL: 31 years ago - TOYAH: 31 years ago. Well, it's all a blur for me because in the last 20 years my music career came back with a vengeance. And I haven't looked back and I've lost all those kinds of memories. I mean, I can remember Peter Shaffer was involved. Tim Pigott-Smith, Richard McCabe, you. I was also doing a daytime tour of prisons of Janis Joplin (Toyah at the prison in Aberdeen in 1991, below) The really exhausting tour!

MICHAEL: It was exhausting. I remember you going off to prisons. At the same time I was going off with an actor called Max Gold. You may remember? TOYAH: Oh, I love Max Gold! You went with Helen Baxendale as well? MICHAEL: Yeah, yeah, the three of us. So we had the really nice job of going around schools. While you would go to prisons and come back and say “Oh, my God, it was a bit weird” ... TOYAH: I'd rather gone to the prisons. The thing about going into the prisons, Michael, is they needed entertaining and they were utterly engrossed. And the thing that disturbed me was I was able to leave, and I was performing to what looked like completely normal human beings you'd bump into in a shop, but they weren't allowed to leave and I found that grossly disturbing   MICHAEL: I've been to prisons before I was an actor. I worked as a solicitor's clerk TOYAH: You look like one now!

MICHAEL: I look more like a judge (they both laugh) I went to a number of prisons, and they were horrible. Horrible. I think everybody should have a visit to a prison. Yeah, and just smell it     TOYAH: Yes. Well, what I experienced, because I was going in with about 20 press people to every prison, was some of the prisoners would hand me notes and I'd open up the note and they'd say "they've only made it like this for you". They cleaned it, they painted, they made it look pristine and clinical. And I was getting these notes saying "this has only happened because of you". And then you know, you really think about what is going on and prison is prison   MICHAEL: Because in that time, people would have been slopping out of a bucket in the corner of the cell. So it was just awful TOYAH: I'm glad I did it because it was a great leveller. And, you know, I was a huge rock star. And suddenly I was made to experience what life is like for someone who is so desperate they steal a car, they steal food, they steal someone's stereo. That everyone had a story and everyone had a reason. It was such an eye opener. What an experience!   

MICHAEL: Astonishing, but we are going to talk about things like that. You're going to pick five things from your life. Four things that you treasure, and one thing that you'd like to get rid of. You've made notes. Oh, how brilliant! TOYAH: Not only have I made notes -  I've done lists! (Michael laughs) Do people have a problem picking these things? MICHAEL: Only sometimes narrowing it down TOYAH: Well, my passion list is very selfish. So shall I start? MICHAEL: Yeah, go TOYAH: OK. My passion is stones. I absolutely love stones. I collect rare gems - can't afford diamonds but rare gems I can do. And I collect very rare crystals. So I'm holding up a 37 carat topaz (on Toyah's left hand, above) MICHAEL: Oh, it's beautiful

TOYAH: It's absolutely beautiful and I collect stones like that. And I bought the stone, had it made into a ring and I don't go anywhere without it. This ring has survived so much. It's been lost at petrol stations. It's been lost in public loos. It's been dropped from great height and I have always worn a blue stone and I feel naked without a blue stone on me Now people might say "oh, that sounds really frivolous. What does it mean? People are starving around the world." For me, this is a stone that has been created out of the creation of the world, from the impact of volcanoes, from mountains forming from earthquakes. It's been there long before I was conceived     And for me, it's what I call a universal connection. You know, it makes me realise that I have a very precious moment in time within the existence of the universe. It is not even a speck of dust in the existence of the universe. And I wear this ring just to remind me not to waste time MICHAEL: Ah! Very good. Very good. And you don't, do you? TOYAH: I try not to

MICHAEL: I always thought that that was the case. When we did this play together you to me had been this enormous rock star. So suddenly, I became aware of the fact that you acted and I hadn't really noticed it. I suppose, you know, “Quadrophenia” and things like that you would have noticed, that you would have thought you were in there because of your pop connection. But actually, there you were - this incredibly dedicated actress with an amazing CV already behind you TOYAH: I started at the National Theatre when I was 18 MICHAEL: It's incredible TOYAH: Yeah! But I think I was a bit just too rebellious for the system. I did Christopher Hampton’s adaptation of “Tales From The Vienna Woods” with a phenomenal cast. Kate Nelligan got me in the cast. She saw me on a TV play on BBC2 called “Glitter”, and she was watching while having supper with the director Maximilian Schell, great German movie star And they said "right, we're going to cast her as Emma and “Tales From The Vienna Woods”" and I never looked back. So I had already, before I had a hit single, done the National Theatre, the ICA, worked with Stephen Poliakoff, Danny Boyd on “Sugar and Spice” (flyer, below), he was the assistant director on Nigel Williams’ “Sugar And Spice” at the Royal Court Theatre. I’d already been in the royalty of acting before “It’s A Mystery” was a hit

MICHAEL: That's the thing I remember about it. And then also, it was your style of acting that I really liked. From my memory of this thing one of the things that slightly wound up Tim Pigott-Smith was that you never repeated. You hardly ever repeated anything. You would be fresh every night TOYAH: I know and I now realise how destructive that can be to someone like Tim Pigott-Smith, because my whole philosophy was the audience deserved a new approach. And this is how I feel about every show I do. And believe me, I've been on stage with A-listers in America, where they have done exactly the same rock performance every night, down to the same head moves and the same solos. And I thought the audience deserves you present in the room So when I get onstage, not as much now with an acting play as I do with music, the audience deserves to be present in the room in that moment and that moment is sacred, and it's with them forever   But I realised with Tim Pigott-Smith - I had quite large scenes with him as “Constanze” - that my doing it differently every night, with him playing such a huge role as “Salieri” ... I was not helping him. He would have words with me about reining it back and becoming what we were in rehearsals and I did rein it back

But I think I was a handful for many, many people when I was much younger. I totally totally sympathise with Tim Pigott-Smith, dreading being on stage with me. Richard McCabe was equally dangerous and when we had a couple scenes ... I mean, my God did the fur fly! MICHAEL: Yes, I remember. You probably forget that I actually understudied Richard in that production and I watched you closely every night and in fact Helen Baxendale understudied you TOYAH: Yes, she did. I remember one scene where we were getting violent with each other because “Constanze” goes mad, and I was wearing a pregnancy bump. And we were in Oxford, and I was twirling like a Whirling Dervish, and the pregnancy bump came off (Michael laughs) It landed on the stage and Richard just went! I mean we literally had to stuff it back up my corset. We were wild MICHAEL: It was a brilliant production. I had a fantastic time doing it. My favourite memory was, I think, in Glasgow where somebody right at the beginning, when Tim was saying, you know, goes to the future. How he started the play in the wheelchair as an old man     

Goes to the future. “Come with me. I will take you on a journey.” And somebody in the audience shouted, “you didn't do it, Salieri!” And he ignored it. And then they said, “We know you didn't murder Mozart!”, and then eventually said "no, bring the curtain down ... " - TOYAH: I remember it because I just felt for him because that opening speech, I mean, how many pages long was it? It was a constant battle with that opening speech. And then they put him on a bath chair and I don't know if you remember in Sheffield, it rolled off the stage - MICHAEL: I do, yes! TOYAH: I think he was in it and he had to jump out. He battled so much, and was also battling with keeping Compass Theatre Company afloat. And even though we were a sold out tour, he was still battling with budgets. He was remarkable MICHAEL: It was a fantastic performance as well, wasn't it? TOYAH: Breathtaking 

MICHAEL: It really was mesmerising TOYAH: And Richard McCabe was playing Mozart for real     MICHAEL: Yeah, he played the piano. Amazing TOYAH: I mean, who could do that today? MICHAEL: It's never been done before or since, fantastic. Oh, happy memories. So anyway, I'm going to bring you back to stones. When did you first start collecting stones then? 

TOYAH: When I could afford to MICHAEL: It wasn't coloured glass from the beach then? TOYAH: Tell you what, that is very perceptive of you because the first stone I fell in love with - I was 23, and I think and I was on Lynmouth beach, and the stone was the size of my head and it has white lines going through it, massive! And I took it and you're not allowed to do that these days  And that stone is still with me. It's outside my kitchen door now. And if anyone moves it - we have gardeners ... If anyone moves it, they get an email and a phone call. “Come back now and put that stone back!” (Michael laughs)     And I love it for exactly the same reason I love my topaz ring. It's part of the Big Bang and we're all part of that process. And so that's when it started, I was 23 - so I'm 63 now ... 40 years ago MICHAEL: You're slightly younger than me - TOYAH: Am I?! MICHAEL: And you look 10 years younger (they both laugh) TOYAH: Thank you!

MICHAEL: Well, I think it's very important to have an awareness of the enormity of time and your place in it. But also not to use it to make yourself feel insignificant but as you say … lucky TOYAH: Yeah. God, you’re perceptive! I love this! I was having a conversation with a journalist from the Financial Times last week because he was fascinated that I collect crystals. I have 22 rare crystals in this room and it’s called the Crystal Room. And he said “I'm having a really bad time, I've given up on hoping about the future. I feel insignificant in my life”   And I picked out one crystal - I’d pick it up for you but it's so heavy I can't lift it! And I said "look, this has come from a Big Bang we really know nothing about. It's made from carbon. We are made from carbon. This peach I'm holding up I'm having for my breakfast is made from carbon. We are all the same process. We're all the same thing. We have a gift of being in an organic body so we can be potential and experience potential. Then we go back to the big process" and he got it. Feeling insignificant is nothing but waking you up to your own potential. We are not insignificant

MICHAEL: No. That thing that you say of driving yourself on I mean, not driving yourself but actually filling your time, making use of it. I mean, again and again there are many people who would have said well, alright, I had enormous success as a pop star and then you might’ve gone well, we'll just do a sort of few reminiscence tours and it makes nice money and things like that. But you don't. You write new stuff, you perform again and actually, your latest album has charted

TOYAH: Yeah, it went to number one across the board. And this is a very interesting fact, Michael - Amazon's top seller, so I went straight to number one in the Amazon chart. I went number one into dance charts, the rock charts. I was number one best seller in the UK for a week MICHAEL: That's amazing TOYAH: Yeah, in the Official Chart I was number 22. Because my generation don't use Spotify. This is generational. So the album is called “Posh Pop” and this physical CD I'm holding up outsold Queen, outstripped Metallica, it just sold in tens of thousands. But I was pipped to the post by the younger artists who are downloaded on Spotify MICHAEL: Yes, and get paid nothing for it TOYAH: I agree. So it's a very interesting time. I returned big time successfully to music when I played Wembley in 2002. Because Youtube had given younger audiences the chance to experience heritage artists like me and (they) want to see us live and I've not looked back since MICHAEL: No, I'm not surprised. I mean, when you burst onto the scene, you were completely unique TOYAH: Yeah, well, I was unique. I was androgynous. I called myself third gender. I was very very tomboy and very strong. I came from punk and then got adopted by the New Wave movement and then into rock. But I do think if I came in exploiting my female sexuality, I would have had a much, much bigger career (they both laugh) MICHAEL: It's possibly true. Yes, play the play the game TOYAH: Play the game! I was a rule breaker from day one MICHAEL: And what led you to be that? TOYAH: I think, actually, I had to create a character - (because of) lack of confidence. I've never had confidence in my femininity. I'm very physically small. I mean, I'm barely five foot tall. People … how can I put this? ... In a physicality way people talk down to you. And it's only in recent years I've realised the techniques that short people use to appear tall and that is you never look up when you talk to someone else     I learned this off the Queen and I learned this off Kylie Minogue. You never crane your neck to look up at someone. You use your eyes to look up. Therefore you always look as though you're the same height as everyone else. I could only have learned that with the invention of phone cameras     

When you can go online and you can study how people's body language is and I learnt it off movie stars who have to act with people like Charlize Theron and Nicole Kidman, who are both over six foot - the smaller guys never ever crane their neck to look at them. So I think my beginning characteristics was I made myself huge in the space. So I was a rebel. I was a loud punk rocker but now, because I can study technique on camera, I can rein it in

MICHAEL: My wife is only five foot. Well, she'll say five foot and a quarter TOYAH: I say 5’1” I just lie (Michael laughs) MICHAEL: But she has exactly that skill. And she's always had it. People never think - people who are 5’8”say “you're the same as me, aren’t you?” and she never wears built up shoes. Everybody assumes that she's much taller than she is. Because she goes in with a presence and she just commands the room as it were TOYAH: You have to. It does have its benefits. I get mistaken for a child at airport security quite a lot and I get brought right to the front of the queue with the line “come here, little girl” (Michael laughs) and then when I turn up they look at me they go “oh, my goodness!” It's that “don't look now” moment. You know, they go kind of argh! I exploit that every time I can

MICHAEL: Well, if you can't see over the crowd, you might as well burst through them TOYAH: Gosh, you'll never get me in a mosh pit. There's no point. All I can see is backsides (Michael laughs)

MICHAEL: Alright, Toyah, so we're going to put rocks into the time capsule. We're going to move on to item number two TOYAH: Item number two is a white pet rabbit who lived with me between 2007 and 2016. He lived for nine years, he was very, very special. He was a house rabbit. He’d sit by my feet in this office. Completely humanised and was with us 24 hours a day. And when I had to go on the road, he went into a rabbit hotel, and he cost me about £7000 pounds a year in dental treatments and in hotels (Michael laughs) And obviously he has passed away, rabbits don't have long lives. But I would like to see him again because he was so gorgeous and he put everything into perspective. All he wanted was to eat, sleep, be stroked and hump soft toys     When I was freaking out and (I was) over pressured and everything was too much I just would hold him and feel his little beating heart and it would calm me down. He was definitely definitely one of those animals that people would take on an aeroplane to keep them calm MICHAEL: What was his name?

TOYAH: WillyFred. He was called that after the drummer in REM, who is my third time capsule item. Our greatest friend, who when he wasn't in America would live with us here. But let's keep to bunny first. WillyFred bunny was a pink eyed New Zealand white with huge character. People would actually knock on the front door and asked to see him because they loved him so much When the vet finally said - the rabbit was nine years old and by this time I was carrying him everywhere and hand feeding him with a syringe - the vet said “no, you can't keep doing this. If you keep hand feeding him he can't go through the natural process. He won't die, he will just keep deteriorating” So the vet and all the nurses came to our house and we put him on the kitchen table and we all said goodbye to him. And they gave him the inevitable injection and we were all holding him as he passed away and the whole room was in tears. That's how popular this rabbit was. He was the biggest flirt. He would pull women's skirts, he would flirt with women. He would just look at a woman and completely win her over    

We believe that this rabbit was the soul of a Buddha just biding time, waiting to be reincarnated in another life. He was that wise that we treated him as if he was a soul just passing through time. And everyone, when we put him down, who worked with this little bunny rabbit was in the room saying goodbye to him MICHAEL: There are moments, aren't there, where animals are so clearly thinking, I think TOYAH: Oh God, you can't deny it. They have emotional light. I mean, this sounds ridiculous, but I keep Koi fish. And at the moment we've got a female Koi who's about to pass and the other fish will not let me near her. I've tried to remove her from the pond so she can be dispatched. Every time we go to remove her from the pond … whoomph! They stop us taking her away     And what I trust about that is they're telling us to let her go through her own process. And you know, animals have emotional lives. They have natural intelligence that goes beyond our bodily intelligence. Animals are emotionally connected. And a very, very special

MICHAEL: Yes. I saw a wonderful photograph on Instagram I think the other day where was somebody said that this was the best example of photo bombing they'd ever seen. And it was basically photographs of their wedding and there was a dog and it just was looking back at the camera as to say (with a disappointed voice)“Oh my God … not another one ...” TOYAH: Yeah! Animals are … I mean, how can we live without them? They're just so remarkable MICHAEL: You say £7000 pounds a year on bills ... but that must have been worth it? TOYAH: It was worth it. And I had a rabbit with bad teeth. So to save his life literally once a month he had to have his teeth kind of clipped. And it just was ridiculously expensive MICHAEL: Are they quite large, the New Zealand rabbits? TOYAH: The largest I ever had was 10 kg’s

MICHAEL: Oh my God! TOYAH: It was like picking up a dog. They're bred for their meat so they grow very quickly. WillyFred was 3 kg’s MICHAEL: Yeah, but that's a good armful, isn't it? TOYAH: Yeah MICHAEL: Well, in that case - WillyFred is in your time capsule for you to revisit

TOYAH: Thank you. The third item is the actual human being that WillyFred was named after called Bill Rieflin (below with Toyah) and Bill passed away at the beginning of lockdown last year. I made three albums with Bill, he was the drummer in REM. But in my band Toyah And The Humans, he was the bass player. He was one of these remarkable human beings that could play every instrument. He would just pick an instrument up and within three hours he could play it in a virtuoso way. Don't you just hate those people? MICHAEL: Yeah, I know some TOYAH: Bill, my husband Robert Fripp and I, we would travel the world together. We were inseparable. Both Robert and I are very, very independent human beings. I can have a lot of time alone. Robert can have a lot of time alone. And Bill was the same but put the three of us together and the dynamics were like nothing I have ever experienced in my life. And our time together, our precious time together ... I met Bill in 2003 and the three of us became inseparable until he passed away about March the 24th 2020. We were inseparable

MICHAEL: What did he die of? Do you mind if I ask? TOYAH: He had prostate cancer. He did not have it checked in time. Both Robert and I knew he was behaving strangely. Something was bothering him. So I flew to Seattle, about 2012 and I said "Bill, I've come here to tell you to go and have a Well Man check." He did. And he was told he had advanced prostate cancer. But he survived. I mean, he was lucky enough to be in Seattle, which is the world leading cancer area So he did survive and he was - I hate to say this because I know it irritates cancer patients - but he was a fighter. He would not accept that his time had been shortened by this and his surgery was brutal because it went into his colon and then it went into his lungs. He lost a lung, he lost part of his colon, he lost his bowel. But he was still determined - he was touring with King Crimson a few years before his death. So he really did live a very, very good life MICHAEL: That's part of what you were talking about, the preciousness of life, the knowledge that it's such a wonderful gift. And when people fight like that to just ... “I want a bit more, just a bit more” -

TOYAH: Yeah, he inspired me incredibly because he was always learning - he loved language. So he was always learning right up until the end. And he came over to the UK and I spent two days driving him around the UK meeting healers I trust and energy healers. Healers don't necessarily heal the physical body, they help prepare you for what you're about to transition into. And that really helped Bill because he had no faith. So whenever he was in the UK, we did that. We got healers into the house, who explained what the transition of the soul is, how energy transitions and it can never die, energy can never die   So it was his learning process I feel has helped me not fear death. It's helped Robert not fear death. And we managed to get out to Seattle to see him just a few months before he passed and we went and sat with him in oncology while he was having treatment in Seattle. And for us it was a shared process, which just gave us strength. And as you say, made us realise that ... I'm 63, my husband's 75  … It doesn't mean you stop. We live to live. We don't live to die

MICHAEL: Absolutely. And it's a real lesson that when life is hard, and it's a struggle people really find it precious. So in a way it's wasteful to not find life precious when it's easy

TOYAH: I know when it's easy - when you write a song in two minutes and you think the next song will feel like that. You take it for granted. I think people get exhausted by life. Life is genuinely challenging and exhausting. But I think at that point you reach out and this is where friendship and love and community helps put you back on your feet MICHAEL: So you mentioned Robert (below with Toyah) so I'm going to say how did you meet him? Because it's just an extraordinary thing - coming together of these two greats from the pop industry TOYAH: Well, thank you. We first met in a taxi on our way to a Nordoff Robbins (Music Therapy) charity lunch at the Hotel Intercontinental, Park Lane. And we didn't really know each other but we had the same management and I found this legendary rock guitarist, who I knew very little about, I had his album “Discipline”, but that's the only album I knew about, from 1981      

I didn't know his 1970s history, or 1960s history, the Rolling Stones in Hyde Park. And I thought he was a very quiet, gentle, considered human being who didn't speak until he'd considered what he was going to say. And that just brought out the worst in me. And I was goading him and teasing him and provoking him in this 20 minute taxi journey And then we had our photo taken with Princess Michael of Kent and I didn't meet him again for about another five years, by which point and this is what my husband does - he's known for this … He was living in New York at the time, and his diary wasn't filling for a three week consecutive period and he decided that I was his wife. He said he just knew, he knew as soon as he met me that I was his wife. So he came back to England, arranged for us to make an album together and he proposed to me

MICHAEL: Wow, that's amazing! TOYAH: Now, another angle on that story is he gets into a lot of trouble because he has dreams that come true. And he dreamt he was in the studio with David Bowie about eight years ago. And he wrote this in his diary. “Oh, in my dream, I was making an album with David Bowie, Tony Visconti was producing.” Well, at that time Tony Visconti was producing “The Last Day”, Bowie’s penultimate album. Visconti hit the roof, because the press picked up on Robert’s diary as actual and announced Bowie making the album MICHAEL: No! TOYAH: Yeah, and it was a dream MICHAEL: That's incredible! 

TOYAH: It is incredible and everyone in our community, because we live on a High Street, we're surrounded by shops and businesses, and they're all our best friends. Everyone on this High Street knows that if Robert has a dream it's going to come true. So he's like our little talking newspaper (Michael laughs) MICHAEL: Brilliant. I mean, I have to say that my awareness of my knowledge of people in Robert’s position ... I mean, he'd had 10-15 years of extraordinary success, worldwide success, been regarded as one of the greatest guitarists of all time, I think     So to suddenly meet someone, well, what I'm going to say is that in that situation, as you will know, having been in the business - the opportunity of meeting beautiful women is almost inevitable. It's thrown at you all the time. So the fact that meeting you in the back of a car he made that decision, that's astonishing insight. It's intuitive, isn't it? And it's amazingly certain. That's real love, I think. That's true love

TOYAH: Yeah. A brutal observation of it is that I didn't want to have children. I'm phobic about childbirth, and my family life wasn't comfortable, my childhood was not comfortable. So I wasn't attracted to having a large family. And when Robert met me I was highly independent. I didn't need his money. I didn't intend on getting pregnant and he could see that you could have a relationship with someone that would still allow him his freedom to travel and his independence

MICHAEL: And you'd understand his world as well, wouldn't you? TOYAH: Yeah, I did. But I've had to fight for my place in this marriage. And in the beginning, the first two years, I was like a war warrior fighting women off who felt that they could do better than me. And he always said it was never a problem for him. But he was always being targeted by women because he had a reputation of being highly sexed. And he said "well, that was myth rather than legend". The first two years I found incredibly tough. And now I feel I'm in my prime at 63 and there's a lot going on, my career is just ascending. I'm very, very confident in our marriage and everything, but it was a tough beginning

MICHAEL: Well, I'm going to take you back and I will put Bill (above with Toyah) into the time capsule for you TOYAH: Thank you! MICHAEL: And as with all these things, wouldn't it be lovely to see them again? TOYAH: Yeah, definitely. I feel Bill is with me. My album “Posh Pop” … I’m utterly convinced he was standing beside me, helping it be the success it became. I don't feel separated from him at all MICHAEL: No. OK, so that's number three. So we're going to move on to item number four. TOYAH: It's a phone call and you will know this and every actor and performer will know this. It's the very first phone call I ever had telling me I'd got the job, and the whole world is yours in that moment. I was 17. I was at drama school. I've been seen by the Bicat brothers, Nick and Tony Bicat, playwrights, music writers, to do a half hour play with Phil Daniels and Noel Edmunds about a young girl breaking into the Top Of The Pops studio to become a singer  

And I've been down to London, done the audition with Phil Daniels, never expected to hear back and it was a Sunday 11 o'clock in the morning. I was about to go out and visit Blenheim Palace with some drama student friends. The phone rang at my home, Grove Road, Birmingham. I picked the phone up and it was a secretary saying “Toyah, you've got the job. You start on Monday” I cannot tell you ... that moment has never ever been overtaken by anything else. Because I just knew my life was about to change. It was glorious and the nervousness, the feeling of being an imposter. Can I do it? Will I be OK? Of course I can do it! I'm going to be the best ever! You just travel through the universe of potential and egotism and I'm going to do this! I'm going to do that! This is only the beginning! All those emotions. That day was the heightened day and when my friends came to pick me up, I just said "I've got the job!" They were elated for me. Elated! MICHAEL: I can imagine. Did you sing in that show? TOYAH: Yeah, I had to write the music as well 

MICHAEL: Wow! TOYAH: Tony Bicat put me together with a band called Bilbo Baggins, who were like the little brother to the Bay City Rollers. A Glasgow band. They were gorgeous, I was just in love with them all. Pebble Mill, we rehearsed in there, Bilbo Baggins, the band were put into a room     So I would rehearse with Phil Daniels and Noel Edmonds in the daytime and then I would go into the room with Bilbo Baggins, where we would work on lyrics together, and the music together and they taught me how to sing with the band, because I've never done that So I composed the lyrics with Tony Bicat, Bilbo Baggins, and then the band moved into the studio when we were actually recording this half hour play called “Glitter”. And we performed it live MICHAEL: Oh my God!

TOYAH: Just looking back I wish I could do it now. I wish I could go back as Toyah now with all of my experience and record that play now and sing it now because I would give a performance that would be Oscar winning (Michael laughs) My performance was very, very naive. Not bad, but just naive and totally inexperienced, which I think is what the Bicat brothers wanted

MICHAEL: But also, I suppose what attracted people at the National Theatre to you. They saw this naivety but a freshness and something new TOYAH: It is extraordinary because Kate Nelligan and Maximilian Schell were watching that go out live and we made it in May of ‘76. It went out October ‘76 and by November same year I was living in London, a member of the National Theatre and that's all thanks to Kate Nelligan, who took a real shine to me. I ended up living with her for nine months, she had a granny flat at her house in Stockwell. And she said “come and move into that flat” MICHAEL: She's fantastic, Kate Nelligan TOYAH: She's amazing and Brenda Blethyn was in the cast as well. They just kind of scooped me up, tolerated me and supported me. They were wonderful people MICHAEL: I did a fantastic play with Brenda. Well, it was a terrible play actually, but we had a fantastic time doing it TOYAH: Where did you do it? MICHAEL: We did it at the Almeida TOYAH: Ooooh! 

MICHAEL: I know. Sounds posh, doesn’t it? TOYAH: You wouldn’t think there was a terrible play at the Almeida MICHAEL: It was a terrible play, sadly. They chose badly, but she was fantastic in it and I had to grab her breasts every night TOYAH: Oh! Dear Brenda! How long ago was this? MICHAEL: So that would have been at the end of the 90s. It was fun … TOYAH: Well, you were older and wise by then MICHAEL: I was wise enough to know that we were acting. She did this extraordinary thing. She played a sort of a frustrated housewife which you can imagine she did absolutely brilliantly. And she knew that I was famous for my love life. And so she'd started talking to me about it and then said "what's it like?" and I said "what?" and she said "when people touch you?" and I said "do you want to find out?"   

She said "OK" so I said "well, let's start here" and I put my hands on her breasts. And I did that every night and then one night I did it and I slightly moved my hands and she fell to the floor going ooohhhh! (Toyah cackles) Afterwards, I said "I'm so sorry. What did I do?" and she said, "it’s alright - I've got very sensitive nipples" TOYAH: Oh my God! I love that! MICHAEL: I love Brenda

TOYAH: She’s so generous because on the first day of rehearsals at the National Theatre (Toyah in "Tales From The Vienna Woods", above), she didn't know me from anyone else. She said "have you got diggs?" And I said "no. I'll go back to Birmingham. She said "you can't do that every day, come and sleep on my sofa". And I thought I don't want to sleep on the sofa. This what I was like and then Kate Nelligan says “I have a granny flat” … “I'll stay there”. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth! I was a very ill experienced young person

MICHAEL: She was well established by then, Brenda, at the National. She did “Bedroom Farce”, I remember she was fantastic in that TOYAH: I loved and adored her not only for her talent, but her generosity as a human being as well MICHAEL: Yes … Oh, I've just gone into a revelry (they both laugh) TOYAH: I've never touched her breasts though

MICHAEL: No. Well, I never really have. I mean it was acting. There we are. Oh, that phone call. Well, we're lucky in our profession that we've all had those moments. But I think everybody must have a phone call and they think it's going to affect their life. And that moment comes and it's a wonderful thing, isn't it? Particularly when you're young? TOYAH: I have to tell you one that I'm now allowed to talk about because I had to sign a disclosure contract about it. I went for an audition three years ago, and I walked into the studio and I thought this is a blind audition. There's cameras everywhere. There's the top casting people in the world in the room. And they said "we can't tell you what it's for. The script is not the script you're up for." And I learned this to a T, I gave them the performance of a life and I just thought, well this is weird because it is a blind audition. And I left and got the phone call. "J.J. Abrams is calling you in an hour" MICHAEL: Oh my God! TOYAH: I actually ran to the loo. I thought I was going to puke MICHAEL: I’m not surprised 

TOYAH: It didn't happen. It didn't come about because I thought it was a joke. And when the call came I asked too many questions. And I was trying to test to see if I was being wound up and I probably came across as far too controlling. So it didn't happen MICHAEL: Well, yeah, not everything comes up. We've all had those as well where you're close. But how fantastic! I will definitely take that. The phone is ringing inside there, you can pick it up anytime you like (Toyah laughs) “Toyah. You've got the job, you start on Monday” TOYAH: Yeah, I’d love that! MICHAEL: Right. OK, we got one thing left. Now this is something that you're supposed to get rid of from your life TOYAH: It's the combination of fresh raspberries and almonds MICHAEL: Oh, really? That sounds delicious to me

TOYAH: No. I can eat them separately. But if you put them together in a dish I get really, really funny. Part of it is my dear mother had a habit of doing what you asked her not to do. So an example of this - I don't do pantomime anymore. I don't have to do it and I'm too old to do it. It breaks your body     But I would have one day off for Christmas and that would be Christmas Day and my mother (above front in 1946) would say "what would you like for Christmas lunch?" and I'd say "I would love a trifle. I want a trifle. I want it full of sherry and cherries and no almonds, no raspberries". And she'd arrive on Christmas Day. “I've made you an almond and raspberry trifle.” She would always do exactly what I asked her not to do So if she made me a cup of tea I'd say “Mum, no milk, no sugar, just black tea.” “There's your tea, it's got three sugars and milk.” It was always that. “Mum, turn left, turn left” She turned right. And it gave me a phobia of almonds and raspberries. And I bought two cottages. One for them to get them out of Birmingham, because they started to get break-ins because people knew they were my mum and dad

So I retired them into a beautiful cottage on the river Avon, and I bought the cottage next door and I needed to do this cottage up and it had wild raspberries growing. And I started to write a book one morning and I was in the first chapter, in the moment delivering this first chapter at my computer, in the silence of my cottage     Unfortunately I'd put a doorway in between the gardens and my mother was outside the window going “You’ve got to pick the raspberries! The raspberries will rot on the vine!” I got a pair of shears. I cut the raspberries and I threw them in the fucking river Avon and I've not eaten raspberries since and I said “there's your fucking raspberries!” (Michael laughs) MICHAEL: You've had quite a relationship with your mom then over the years TOYAH: (exasperated) Oh! I don't know where to start. I have to write the play, the book and the film about this relationship

MICHAEL: You should! TOYAH: Well, I never knew until December the 3rd last year when ancestry.com contacted me to tell me about some press cuttings they found - my mother, very likely at the age of 14, witnessed her father murder her mother. There was a court case. It was a crime of punishment. My mother was born out of wedlock, which is why she was such a snob and kind of refused to acknowledge anything in the working class system. She was very, very complex, really complex and she was living a character she created so no one could discover her history And she was just driven mad by her history. And she had a chaperone. She was a dancer, a professional dancer and she had a female chaperone (in the photo above behind the car) who even shared her bedroom with her. My mother was never allowed to be alone probably because her father only went to prison for three months. He escaped the gallows. He was free. And I think the chaperone was with her right up until she married my dad to make sure the father never got near her MICHAEL: Good Lord! 

MICHAEL: So when you found this incredible thing out only recently did you suddenly re-evaluate the whole thing or …?

TOYAH: Yeah, I mean, I had to be with counsellors in the room when they told me. They were so concerned about how it would affect me and it did affect me because it was literally like a jigsaw puzzle falling out of the sky of my past and just all falling into place. I suddenly understood this extraordinary past. So did my brother, my sister, my husband, I mean all of the family spouses suddenly realised why my mother would destroy every moment. It's because she felt if she didn't, that we will be in danger

MICHAEL: Yes. You can't be happy

TOYAH: You can't be happy. I've really had to re-evaluate everything in the in last 10 months and there is a song on “Posh Pop” called “Barefoot On Mars”, which has gone viral because it's about that moment, and I just wish she could have told us while she was alive because we would have got her therapist. We'd have done therapy with her, we would have been kinder to her rather than exasperated by her. She refused medical attention. She refused medical help. She was destructive on every level to her physical body and her mental health MICHAEL: And yours TOYAH: I think she made me who and what I am and my God I’m tough

MICHAEL: Yeah. You are Toyah. Well, I'm going to put that into the time capsule for you, but I don't think you really need to lock it away. I think you're perfectly capable of dealing with it. You're an extraordinary woman TOYAH: Thank you. Just don't show me a raspberry (Michael laughs) MICHAEL: Particularly not with almonds on it TOYAH: And can I add one more thing which is purely for my oral pleasure? And that's a Cadbury's Creme Egg MICHAEL: All right, in the sealed compartment are raspberries and almonds and sitting on top of it a lovely Cadbury's Creme Egg TOYAH: Yeah! (laughs) I love it! MICHAEL: Brilliant. How wonderful to talk to you. How lovely to see you again, looking so well TOYAH: Well, thank you and I hope that we get to work together! MICHAEL: Yeah, that would be fantastic. Keep well!

TOYAH: Alright! MICHAEL: Bye!  

[toyahinterviews]

TOYAH ON ANTHEM 2022

From the DVD of the Anthem Reissue 2022 After the release of "The Blue Meaning" in 1980, Pete Bush, Charlie Francis and Steve Bray left the band … TOYAH: When "The Blue Meaning" band line-up broke up it was absolutely devastating, but something was happening that in many ways was inevitable and I was becoming the main focus of the band. So at the time "The Blue Meaning" band broke up I was starring in a play at the Royal Court Theatre called “Sugar And Spice” and I had a documentary crew from ITV following me everywhere This is way before reality TV and suddenly we're surrounded by a camera crew. And it just puts so much pressure on the other musicians and I think it gave them a loss of identity and they decided to just move on to other pastures Joel (Bogen) and I have been together for a long time as a creative team, and it just would have been crazy for us not to have continued. There was a lot of goodwill in the industry and obviously success was a millimetre away from both of us. I carried on doing the play at the Royal Court, I felt utterly lost. I had absolutely no idea how to cope and what to do but Safari contacted a producer called Nick Tauber

They contacted Keith Hale of Blood Donor and we went into the studio around Christmas - before Christmas and Christmas week. And we did the first demo for “It’s A Mystery, by which time Nick Tauber put a new band together with Joel and that new band was Phil Spalding on bass (below on the rght), Nigel Glockler on drums, Adrian Lee on keyboards, Joel guitar (below on the left), me voice

I didn't get to meet these boys until about February because I was then shooting  Tales Of The Unexpected called “Blue Marigold” for ITV. And I was based in Norwich, and every day of tape would arrive with new songs on and when I say songs, they were just the backing tracks, but they were so complete all I had to do was to write the top line, the top lyric, the top melody and go in the studio and record them. The big problem was the time to do that. I certainly couldn't do it while I was starring in a drama But I got home after “Blue Marigold” finished and every morning for two weeks I got up at six in the morning, wrote the top line to every track, by two in the afternoon I was in the studio recording it, doing the backing vocals, everything by seven in the evening and right over this two week period we completed the album The new line-up and Nick Tauber’s approach was that of super polished commerciality and what I mean by that- when you look back to "The Blue Meaning" line-up with Charlie Francis, Steve Ray on drums - you have this wild, unstoppable unharnessed energy and it's the same with the creative ideas. With “Anthem” the tracks that were coming to me in Norwich were just so beautifully arranged and beautifully played. It was the step-up within commercialism and that was evident immediately 

Was I confident about it? No, because it took a step up in its commerciality but that was a step away from me. I still had to find that Toyah. I was still the Toyah of "Blue Meaning" and very much an avant-garde groundbreaking creative artist in theatre and in music. And suddenly I'm presented with these backing tracks, like the backing tracks for “I Want To Be Free”. No title, nothing. The backing track to “Marionette”. No title, nothing So everything I did I created from my instinct and my emotional reaction to those tracks purely on their musical merit. And the arrangements were so complete. I think it helped me a lot because it was pretty obvious what was a bridge and what was a chorus and sometimes the old Toyah band would have to go into a rehearsal studio and work out what was the bridge and what was the chorus and where the catch was. I was presented all of that in its finished form The only thing where I was working in the studio to hone was “It’s A Mystery” with Keith Hale, which came to me as a 12 minute vocal and a 12 minute instrumental and we needed to turn that into a four and half minute hit single. So that became verse, bridge, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus. I wrote the second verse but we did all this in the studio together. I did the vocal And I must admit doing the demo for “It’s A Mystery” ... I was thinking what am I doing? This is the end. This is absolutely the end. I was completely in conflict within myself as to how to make this new commerciality work. And I did it the way I always do it and that's inverting imagery and bringing in really strange imagery

Around the time of “Anthem” “Dungeons And Dragons” was kind of big and it was an underground thing and it was a cult thing. But it was still a big thing. And this was the beginning of computer programming, where virtually everyone we were working with was disappearing moonlighting to do work through the night on programming computers. This was a world in complete fluidity, flux and change   And I thought if I bring in these images - like “Obsolete” is about flat earth, “I Want To Be Free” is just about the God given right of not having someone tell us who and what we should be when we should only listen up there. “We Are” is about the God given right of us having our own identity and “Marionette” was very much influenced by Thatcher's Britain And “Demolition Men” was very much influenced about how America was starting to homogenise the UK. So I was just playing with all these very filmic images and that's how I coped with the super commercialism that was heading my way from the studio To put “It’s A Mystery” into context, the band Blood Donor were the groundbreaking band that virtually every synth band from the late 70s to the 80s to the 90s, copied. This was a great band, this was Keith Hale's band. And Keith Hale had this song called “It's A Mystery”which Safari were determined I was going to sing, and they instinctively felt it was a hit single

I didn't get it. In the beginning I didn't get it. And when Keith and I worked on the arrangement with Nick Tauber, and we honed it and we presented it as a finished recording to the to the record label I think my words were “this is the end of my career as a singer”   When we started to put it into the touring band, which was late February 1981 I actually apologised to the audience. I remember being on stage in Sheffield, which by the way, was a one and a half hour show that also had a one and a half hour encore. It was breathtaking with the whole band practically naked on stage vomiting into buckets because of the heat and the exhaustion We put “It’s A Mystery” into the set and I said “look, this is my next single, I don't think it's me, let's see what you think.” And we performed it. And it had a really interesting reaction. There was almost a bemused silence at the end and then they just erupted. And after that word spread around the whole of the tour and we were followed by about a caravan of 20 cars - every tour at that time, news spread fast and this became the go to song of the whole tour

The success of “It’s A Mystery” was absolutely extraordinary because I was expecting the bottom line and that was career death. And there's something very ironic that I can only say in hindsight, is that because the song was ultra feminine and because the first appearance on Top Of The Pops, my costume didn't arrive and I had to wear a dress I think it made me utterly palatable to the mass market  Because up until that point I was third gender, I didn't gender dress at all. I was a pretty odd person with strange hair, strange makeup, but there's something about the chain reaction that fell into place the moment we got the single out. It was unstoppable

And there were things going on, like the single was so successful in its sales even before we got Top Of The Pops that the factories ran out of vinyl, and there was an absolute panic on because I think the single went in in the Top 40 and we had to prove to get Top Of The Pops we could get it into the Top 30 We were about to lose that position because there was no vinyl in the factory and everything had sold out and the demand was beyond what we could deliver. I think Safari even hired men in white vans to go around record shops and collect broken vinyl. And they were driving 24 hours a day to get the vinyl into the factory and the product into the shops And they managed to do it because I think we went in at 28 the following week. And even though Top Of The Pops was very unsure about me, they could not refuse me a place on that week’s show And when the phone call came in, I was in my flat in Hendon. I was in the bath looking forward to a day off the next day and the phone call came and they said “you've got Top Of The Pops. You're in the studio for 10.30 in the morning”, and I can remember just sitting in that bath going “oh fuck! Fuck!!!” And I couldn't comprehend being accepted being on something that I'd watched all my life with my family. The one programme it would take for my family to realise I had talent and had a career

And suddenly it was there and it came out of the blue and it came in such a strange way. Boy, the following 24 hours my feet didn't touch the ground. It was like get the costume, get the makeup, get the hair done. We had to rerecord the song in those days before Top Of The Pops. Get to the studio, rerecord the song   When we arrived at Top Of The Pops, I had this thing in those days where I wouldn't eat until after I'd worked so absolutely no food and no water for about 18 hours. I don't know how I did it. I even used to go three days without food. How I did it I do not know but it just made me super active, super kind of animal and alert. So we get to the studio. And it's not easy and wasn't easy eating at a BBC studio back then. You just could never find anywhere. You were permanently lost But we rehearsed on camera I'd say about five times before we did the actual show. I remember on the stage over there was Adam Ant, who was number one at the time I believe, stage over there possibly Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark, stage over there the guy (Joe Dolce) that sang "Shaddap Your Face".  I mean ... it was just so surreal and so wonderful. It’s probably the most magical day of the whole of my life to be honest

Once we had the initial success with “It’s A Mystery” nothing was going stop me. It confirmed everything I wanted in life and everything I thought I could do in life. It absolutely confirmed for me that I have a place in a successful music career. Nothing's going to stop me. So no, the pressure wasn't on. But believe me the pressure was on because the lifestyle just turned on a half penny 

I cannot tell you what it was like. It was get up at six in the morning. Go to a studio, record something. Get a prop plane over to Belgium, go to a studio, do a TV show. Get the prop plane back, do Top Of The Pops, get the prop plane to Germany. Do a show, come back, get in the studio, write the next song. It was just what the hell?! But it was the most exciting thing and it's everything I ever wanted. But what I didn't realise is that lifestyle starts to isolate you   So I went from the life when I was mixing with Iggy Pop, I was mixing with Derek Jarman, I was mixing with so many other people because we had some time on our hands. And all we had to do was go in a rehearsal room and write songs. Suddenly there was no time. No time. Journalists needed you, photographers needed, you needed to write new material. It was non-stop for the whole of that 12 month period. Non- stop With “I Want To Be Free” when I first received the backing track for it, it was a very obvious anthemic rock number. And I very much wanted to write something that I identified with my new younger audience. And I knew that was risky because I had a great great audience from “Sheep Farming In Barnet”, “Blue Meaning”, even “Toyah! Toyah! Toyah!” but with this song I wanted to say something that we are a generation that's completely different from every other generation. We're born different. We have a right to be different and we have different values. That's what I was aiming at with this song

I had to write the lyric within two hours. So I was up at about six in the morning, in my office, wrote the lyric, car came, took me to the Marquee studios where Joel and Nick Tauber were waiting for me. And I sat down and I sang them what I've written. Nick instantly loved it because Nick likes direct, quite simple phrases. He doesn't like it when I do things that are complex. And he always says “go away! Take words away, go away, come back - less is more!” Joel ... I could see he needed to really think about it because Joel comes from jazz, and he loves jazz so everything has to have a very deep meaning with Joel. And I think he was concerned about the musicality of it. He was concerned about what his friends might think, and what the critics might think  But he went with it. For some reason I just went straight into the studio and put it down and I put it down chorus first and then did the verses because I felt if I could get them to hear the chorus they knew how anthemic it was going to be. And as soon as I started the chorus, they started to be more positive towards it

In hindsight, this song has grown and grown and grown for a very different reason. When the song came out, yes, it was instantly a hit, it just hit the right buttons. It was the right time. But we started to hear from around the world from prison organisations that this song was being sung every morning by prisoners, even political prisoners were adopting it. But then we started to get messages coming from South Africa that people stuck within apartheid were singing it. People who wanted an end to apartheid. They wanted equality and recognition - they were singing it as well. It was a huge hit in South Africa

Three years ago when I was playing Queen Elizabeth the First in the stage version of Derek Jarman's “Jubilee” with a gender neutral cast - gender fluid, gender neutral - they chose this song to represent them. It was their anthem. They said they knew of this song because it was performed in clubs and in cabaret clubs in the gay community, and it was performed because everyone said it was about being gender neutral. And of course, that's what I was when I started out, I was gender neutral The industry has not been kind to this song. Managers, who are always a bit tricky to deal with, especially other artists’ managers kind of say “oh, it's a novelty song. It means nothing. We don't want our artists following Toyah”. Well, they don't want their artists following Toyah because I’m fucking good at what I do. But also that this song to an audience just absolutely sends them into raptures. It's so big, it's such an event and the whole audience is singing it back. And that alone tells you that the song has huge credibility 

The tours on this particular year, 1981, were breathtakingly successful. There was even talk in 1982 of shifting me up into Wembley Arena but people just got cold feet about it. But the tours were so successful and so much fun I think the band were happy to be part of it. And also, it's pretty obvious that this was music written by a band. This wasn't contrived music written for a kind of contrived artist We had history, Joel and I had history and a very good kind of provenance behind us. So I think the band were very happy. I adored Nigel Glockler’s drumming, he was so wonderful to work with but by the time we did “Thunder In The Mountains” Nigel had decided to go and join Saxon. That was about August 1981. And that broke my heart. Utterly broke my heart because he was such an ally for me When the boys were being ... I'm not going to use the word bullying because I think that's unfair, but when the boys were kind of being boys and boys group, Nigel was there to support me and put his arm around me and to make me feel valued and that I was being listened to. There were a few occasions where because I was always on the promotional trail, I missed out on making friends and having friendship bonds and eating with the boys and travelling with the boys that separated me from them  

The sheer demand of 14 interviews a day, having to travel sometimes to another country in the morning and then come back for a show meant I was not with these people to bond with them as friends     So I think all that made it harder and I think part of that helped Nigel Glockler make up his mind to go and join Saxon. And then, I think by January 1982, Adrian Lee decided he was going to have a solo career, where he eventually ended up with Mike and The Mechanics, but he realised that his potential was so huge on “Anthem” that he wanted a solo career

So it was a tough year. It was a tough year for everyone for many different reasons, but a glorious year. But when you asked me what was it like for the band to experience my ascending light ... I think they realised that what ever happened that year the tension was going to be on me, but they were supportive and they did their jobs brilliantly. But I think by the end of the year it was pretty inevitable that Joel and I had to rethink what we were going to do next I remember the making of “Anthem” being as smooth as a calm millpond. It was an absolute joy. Going into the studio was the one time I could just go (lets out a big sigh) because all the other time there were fans, we were being followed. There was press, there was stalkers outside where we lived. It was just kind of frazzling. I remember getting to the studio having completed my lyrics just thinking “Oh, this is the fun bit.” I remember it just being an absolute joy. Real joy. I loved every minute There wasn't one moment of writer's block. There wasn't one moment when we didn't know what to come up with. I was just brimming with ideas. Joel was as well. We loved putting the vocals down and the backing vocals down. Nick Tauber was an absolute master at producing a voice and he knew how to put effects on the voice and give the voice a presence that you don't have naturally. No singer has it naturally. So everything I was giving to him he was spinning into gold, and it just gave me so much confidence 

In comparison, when I was doing “The Changeling a year later with Steve Lillywhite I was working to a dry sound, which I found really really hard because a dry sound is unforgiving. But with Nick, in my cans I got the produced sound as it would sound on the record and the effect it had on  me was just building my confidence daily I absolutely loved working at the Marquee studios. We did a lot of “Sheep Farming In Barnet” at the Marquee studios, but upstairs in a little vocal booth. And the same with “Tiger! Tiger!” on “Blue Meaning”, we did it upstairs in a little vocal booth. Here we were in the master studio, the biggest studio in London with the greatest desk in the greatest sound room. It was a joy to be there and it was quite hidden. It wasn't until we did “Love Is The Law” two years later that the fans found us there I found every moment in that studio utterly magical. It was contained, we were a family, we were a unit, a tight friendly unit in that studio. And Nick Tauber was just absolutely stunning at keeping our energy up, keeping us laughing and coming up with brilliant production techniques. On the song “I Am” we wanted a waterfall. So we ended up putting the engineer in the toilet and just flushing the toilet all night long to get that waterfall and then reversing the tape 

We were able to do these wonderful things and back then this was before digital recording came in. So we were cutting the tape with razor blades, taking bars out, stitching it together, reversing the tape to reverse the sound. We were reversing cymbals. It was utterly wonderful. Probably the most wonderful experience of my entire recording life Psychologically being asked to write a B-side you're not being told to write a hit single, which meant we could go back to our origins and our origins were being incredibly in the moment with writing. So “Walkie Talkie”,  “Alien” and “Sphinx”, all those songs - which became huge hits with the fans - they just happened like that (snaps her fingers) because we weren't worrying about the sequence of the song, we weren't worrying that it had to have radio play. And I believe that all of these were done for promotion. Safari were really brilliant at promotion at that particular time. And you had so many music magazines that wanted exclusives So flexi discs – when you actually got the honour of doing a flexi disc, because every artist wanted to do one, we just came up with songs like that. Were we super productive that year? We had to be, but I think we were super happy, super confident and very, very relieved of our success, which meant that we could just flourish. We were in the best place we could be and we were flourishing

I've always been interested in world cultures. So for me in this present day I didn't believe I was stealing or borrowing. I was just hugely respectful and hugely influenced by these cultures that were a lot more interesting than my education. So to discover the kind of philosophies of Egypt, the past life philosophies, the future life philosophies, the passing into the world of the dead, the "Book Of The Dead", all of their hieroglyphics and the fact that the three pyramids match up with three exact spots on Mars. You  just think there is more to this planet. There's more to our little tiny universe than we've been told. And I was interested in that   And again, I love "Lord Of The Rings". I love fairies versus elves versus goblins. I loved all of that. So the imagery on the front cover was the war, the fairy war. Now fairies in folklore are actually utterly ferocious, and they're very, very predatory and they're very possessive of their land. So I wanted a painting that was both like a Marge Piercy interpretation of “Woman On The Edge Of Time” and Marge Piercy, a great American feminist writer, whose characters always travelled through insanity into a crystal clear utopia

And what I wanted with that cover was the utopian fairy holding the head of masculinity. I slightly regret it today because the way the wars have gone today and the way that religious sects have gone today. I think it's a very unfortunate image, but it's all come from the world of fantasy - not from a world of politics. "Dungeons And Dragons", "Lord Of The Rings", "The Hobbit", all of those. And there was a magnificent book written called “The Fairies”, which is a horror book, which I just absolutely adore and it's about these aggressive fairies that just fight every battle to keep their land 

My relationship with Melissa Caplan was all about her originality, and I could go to Melissa with books. I’ve still got the books all around this house of tribal art and I'd say “Melissa, I just adore this tribal art. Can we fit it into a costume?” The colour schemes, the patterns, the body patterns. We reinterpreted it, but we were definitely inspired by Masai, Kabuki theatre, Japan. We were inspired by the hieroglyphics of Egypt. So it was all - for me - just gloriously beautiful, creative experience, and I happened to love these world cultures Melissa was very understanding of that and very exclusive about that. She realised that was my pocket. But as the year moved on with “I Want To Be Free” I wanted to move on with different designers, and I wanted to experiment with movements and I think the designer for the video of “I Want To Be Free” and the Anthem Tour in May 1981 was Helen Scott, who worked mainly in white cotton. So we all were on stage in white cotton, with these kind of tassels that moved around us. And then for “Thunder In The Mountains” I wanted something that's probably the most feminine I'd ever been until that point, which were very tribal and very Boadicea. So I had this wonderful suede dress made which was just skin tight

We were on the road with the Anthem Tour when Adrian Lee gave me a tape of just a piece of music, and I loved it. It was full of bravado, it was full of joy, it lifted my heart listening to it and I said “I really want to put a lyric to this”. So I submitted “Thunder In The Mountains”. It had to be written very quickly purely because of the constraints on us with all the touring and being in Europe and going into Europe and doing so many shows and a few festivals. So on the day that Princess Diana was marrying Prince Charles, I think that was the last day in July 1981, I was in my apartment alone I had to write the lyric and get to the studio and record it that afternoon. I had to finish and complete the lyric because I already had the line “tunder in the mountains”, but I had to create the top line and the melody. And I had two stalkers outside that had the phone number and they were just ringing the doorbell. I was completely alone not knowing how to deal with this and just trying to get it finished   And knowing that when my car came, they were going to be there waiting for me and I was alone. It was very, very intriguing and very stressful. But once I got into the studio environment back in the Marquee studio with Nick Tauber you could let all that go. And Nick created an atmosphere that made work possible

And I think in many ways with “Anthem”, the complete album, I think if we could have done that then we should have had four singles off the album. But you couldn't do that back then because part of the political beliefs of punk was you just didn't exploit the audience. But there were many songs on that album that would have been great singles

“We Are” would have been amazing single and if we had “Voodoo Doll” ready or even “Thunder In The Mountains” ready, that would have been a great single as well - which would have meant “I Want To Be Free”, “It's A Mystery”, “Thunder In The Mountains”, “Voodoo Doll” were all potential singles. But again, this was all part of the fact that we had to produce so much music in that year to satisfy every magazine, every radio station, as well as the fans “Thunder In The Mountains” is the second video I made with the team of   Godley & Creme of 10cc. Absolutely renowned legendary video directors. At our first creative meeting for “Thunder In The Mountains”. I said I wanted to be able to ride a Sherman tank down Oxford Street and down The Mall they said no, only the Queen has permission to do that. And I said I really want to kind of emulate Boadicea and everything to do with the Iceni and the tribes and what the Iceni went through and how they conquered the Romans and the invasion of Rome and all of that And I left it with Godley & Creme and I've turned up at this airfield for the shoot with my makeup artist Prue Walters and with the band and there was this sawn in half car and a pony and I thought well ... that's a bit of a kind of anticlimax and then I realised I was going to have to get in it and use it and ride it like Boadicea   

On the windscreen, which was acting as my shield against falling forward - they taken off the centre mirror, but they hadn't taken off what held the centre mirror so when I'm kind of in motion with the pony on the chariot, this spike that held the mirror is actually digging into my stomach. And I was on that chariot for three hours and by the next day my stomach was just black with bruising I adored making the video. It was demanding. It was great fun, Godly & Creme are a scream to work with. They were great storytellers. They always had a storyboard that they wanted you to follow. They understood the imagery. They understood the importance of the imagery to me, and that I wanted this other world, this kind of Mad Max world and that it just had to be a strong woman and a dystopian landscape When I was 12 I went to see Marc Bolan and T Rex at the Birmingham Odeon and the noise before he came on stage was incomprehensible. Why are these people making so much noise and how are they making it? And it was the same scene with Ziggy Stardust - David Bowie at the Coventry Theatre in ‘73. The noise was just deafening 

Suddenly in May 1981 I was arriving at theatres and the noise was deafening. And it was wonderfully exciting and if I’d had an iPhone at that time, I would have been instagramming it endlessly. All you could hear was “Toyah! Toyah!” Toyah!” I mean for hours. I remember at the Ipswich Gaumont, which was always a remarkable concert - the noise backstage and you just couldn't speak because all you could hear was “Toyah!” and it never ever silenced. It never dropped. It was just the roar of the crowd And it was very interesting going from the tour in the universities in February and March, where they were wild and they were expressive, but they weren't screaming my name name all the time and suddenly we were moving into these big theatre venues and all you could hear was screaming It was breathtaking. They only fell quiet for the intro of “Danced” which was on “Sheep Farming In Barnet” or for “Jungles Of Jupiter”. That's the only time that we could actually hear what we were doing. And then of course there was the introduction of security. I mean frontline security - security in the wings, security outside the dressing room 

I remember at Oxford Playhouse people started falling from the roof and they're all men and what they'd done they'd all got up onto the roof, removed the tiles off the roof, and were trying to come down the theatre curtains and they were just dropping like flies. So we were performing with ambulance people on stage. And eventually we had to stop the show and just go off and let these people be attended to. And then as soon as we started it, it just all started again. We just couldn't stop it. So we had quite a few experiences on that tour where there was something going on that was beyond the music. It was hysteria When we made the album we weren't making it with our radar just on success. We were making music that we believed in and a musical journey we wanted to take and within the music there was so much colour, brightness, shade, potential. So when we were making the album I think our main interest was fulfilling the potential of everyone's contribution. Then suddenly this phenomenal success started and it was spreading around the world 

And at that point you realise that an album has a life of its own. You're  actually no longer part of it. Because you can't judge why it's successful. You can't judge why a completely different culture embraces it. You can't judge why someone in Australia goes out of their way to find their copy. It has a different meaning. And at that point in time you realise something you've written means something unique to the person who's heard it, who’s gone out of their way to buy it, and you just let that be I don't listen back to my albums that often but obviously today 42 years on I'm still playing the songs and it's always so striking. The production values, the invention, the lengths we went to to get those sounds. I mean we're throwing avocados at glass. We were tearing cymbals, smashing them with hammers. We were breaking things. And even for something like “Elocution Lesson”, which is really out there and to use the word bitch in a commercial album back then coming from a woman was almost obscene

When we did the album we knew we had something commercial and well honed, but I still needed a lot of the original Toyah in there which is experimentation. And you get that with “Pop Star”, which for me is like a musical version of a Ray Bradbury book. And it's exactly how I wanted it and when I explained it to Nick Tauber, I think Adrian Lee came up with the main part of the song, the music, and I said to Nick Tauber  “I want this to be about alienation. I want this to be about technology, commanding the humans. I want it to be about fame and brittleness and how fame puts you in a bubble”. He just got it. With “Elocution Lesson” - that's a completely autobiographical song. It's a song about the fact that I needed speech therapy from the age of six, had it til I was 11

And then when I signed with the National Theatre at the age of 18, they continued my speech therapy because I had very bad speech impediment. So “Elocution Lesson” was about the humiliation I felt always having to learn how to speak because I didn't understand that I couldn't speak due to a defect in the roof of my mouth. I was probably talking to someone (makes an incomprehensible noise) - it's coming out like that I didn't know that I wasn't forming my words and suddenly I find myself in a situation where I'm being told I have to learn how to speak and it was shocking to me. Shocking that I wasn't actually sounding and communicating the way my brain was telling me I was. And that was quite a big thing for me and the opportunity to put the song “Elocution Lesson” on this album, for me was a massive, massive privilege “Anthem” is an incredibly important album. It's just brilliantly produced, brilliantly written, brilliantly performed. It has such originality within it but it still stands alone. When you look at “Sheep Farming In Barnet” you've got this vibrant, beautiful energy of musicians in the studio for the first time ever in their careers. When you listen to “Blue Meaning” you've got a band who know they're onto something, who have audiences ramming into venues, and it's a dark angry album that I think sums up the end of our teenage lives

And then with “Anthem” you've got this album that is embracing new technology, new synthesiser sounds, new potential. And you've got experienced musicians for the first time - I mean musicians that have been doing sessions for quite a few years - suddenly in the studio with you and you realise you can do anything with them. And that raises you up a notch But as an album I think “Anthem” is a stand-alone in my career because it's a storytelling album. And it's also a production telling album. By the time we moved on to “The Changeling” we were already moving into quite a gothic dark area, and it's a completely different sound “Anthem” then for me just resonates the pathways created by OMD, Human League, Frank Tovey (of Fad Gadget). It just resonates the end of the 70s into the new era. And it's pre dance  

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BBC RADIO SCOTLAND THE AFTERNOON SHOW 7.9.2022

NICOLA: First up this afternoon I am delighted to be joined by a musician and actor who has been shaking up counterculture and the pop charts for over 40 years. Toyah Willcox made waves in films like “Quadrophenia” and Derek Jarman's “Jubilee”.  

She blazed the trail on Top Of The Pops with hits like “It’s A Mystery”. And that's not to mention her TV stints in “Casualty”, “Kavanagh QC” and “Teletubbies” and that is not the half of it What I'm saying is Toyah was already amazing. But then in lockdown - did you see her? She and her husband, who is the King Crimson genius and collaborator Robert Fripp, made our Sundays. They did these YouTube renditions of classics from Radiohead, AC/DC Metallica - the list goes on And she and Robert Fripp also performed Grace Jones’, “Slave To The Rhythm”, which Toyah is now releasing as a single. She has got quite a history with the song and she's here to tell us all about it. Welcome back to the afternoon show, Toyah! TOYAH: Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to join you on this rather remarkable day, where so much is going on in the world!

NICOLA: There is a lot going on indeed. Toyah, you're having a new single out. What a song it is. And what fascinates me about “Slave To The Rhythm”, Toyah, is the life of this song and your involvement with it. Take us back to before the time it came to Grace Jones?

TOYAH: Well, there was a quite a history with it before Grace Jones. It was written by my long term writing partner, Simon Darlow (above (left) with Robert Fripp and Toyah) and I was the demo singer when this song was presented to Frankie Goes To Hollywood and they decided it wasn't for them But (the producer) Trevor Horn then picked the song up, he rearranged it, got more writers in alongside Simon and then produced it for Grace Jones and we all know the classic, brilliant version that Grace Jones did So about two months ago, Simon Darlow said to me "don't you  think it's about time you release your own version?" I was very nervous about it, because you cannot mend what isn't broken. Grace Jones’ version is absolutely perfect. And my husband Robert Fripp plays on it. It's myself, Simon Darlow - that's the three of us on it We have one of the original writers on it, Bruce Woolley, playing theremin and it's just a beautiful version. Our version is slightly reflective and gentle. That's all I can say about it in comparison to Grace Jones’ version, but it's very beautiful and the audience dance like crazy to it NICOLA: Oh, I'm not surprised. We are going to play it shortly. I'm fascinated by the fact that you inhabited this song for the first time decades ago. What are your memories of your connection to it at that point? It's got haunting quality that song as well, I think

TOYAH: I know and I actually can not remember singing that demo because 35 years ago I was writing constantly and making demos constantly. That was the nature of the business. We always had to submit new songs to the record labels   And I have very little memory other than when I first heard Grace Jones’ version I thought it was one of the most magnificent things I'd ever heard, as with every single she ever released. So when Simon Darlow mentioned to me “you do know you were the original singer on this track?” My reaction was “oh, was I?!” (Nicola laughs)   But you know, we do a lot as artists. The audience gets to see the cherry on top of the cake. That's when we walk on stage, we're all dolled up and we share our music with these wonderful people. But to get to that point, so much more goes on. And to be honest, I have virtually no memory of doing that demo (Nicola laughs) NICOLA: But you've brought it back to life and we are delighted about that. Simon Darlow, who co-wrote the original and is involved in this version of it also produced your most recent album, which was last year's “Posh Pop”. And that featured, Toyah, another long time collaborator under a pseudonym. Tell us about Bobby Willcox?

TOYAH: OK, I'm married to Robert Fripp (above with Toyah) of King Crimson and he's a very reluctant superstar. Everyone I know who has superstar credentials really want to be invisible and anonymous. And believe me I know a lot and my husband is one of them And when he played on this album, he didn't want to be known as Robert Fripp on “Posh Pop”. He wanted to be known as Bobby Willcox, which is his alias when he books into hotels around the world. So everyone now knows his name at every hotel he books into. He's he's changed his mind in recent months because next year, we're touring Sunday Lunch - NICOLA: Oh wow! TOYAH: And we're going out as Toyah and Robert. So he's very, very happy now to be known as Robert Fripp because he's entering the world of classic rock, whereas he's probably better known for prog rock and working with Bowie. So he's changed his mind and on “Posh Pop 2”, which we start recording in a couple of months, he will be known as Robert Fripp NICOLA: Ah, he’s stepping into the limelight under his own name. I think we last spoke around about the 2019 reworking of your album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”, which echoed the similar King Crimson title. Were you and Robert Fripp creative sparring partners from the off? Was there always a spark there?

TOYAH: It's very good question, Nicola. I'd say it's always been a point of creative friction because my husband works historically in a world where timing is absolute. And what I mean by that is if you're in a band and you're playing a time signature where there's 18 beats to a bar, you cannot have fluidity in that timing   I come from punk where everything is about fluidity and tightening. And if I want to shift a vocal across a bar, I will. So we've only really met creatively as successfully as we have in recent times with Sunday Lunch.   The lockdown allowed us to kind of grow together creatively. And thus, we are now probably huge influences in YouTube. We have over 111 million visits to our site. This could only have happened if we were locked in a house together and we were for two and a half years NICOLA: A lot of us were locked in a house together but none of us had the costumery, the musical ingenuity, the playlist. How did you decide on the songs that you wanted to cover? It was a great surprise every single week

TOYAH: I know. In the beginning it was just me choosing the material. I must say now Robert is so excited every week he comes to me with ideas. And initially I posted a 28 second clip of me teaching Robert to dance and it went viral within five minutes.   And that was April of the first lockdown. And what we learned very, very quickly from that was the responses we were getting were from people who were alone, who had no one, access to no one in this terrifying time And we decided that we would keep posting every Sunday lunch. And eventually we evolved into classic rock and this is because we learned something out about the world and the history of classic rock is that it's timeless. Classic rock is a universal language. It crosses every generation   Old people and you know - what is old? It's just a number but people in their 80s, 70s, 60s right down to those who are in their early teens love classic rock and we found a way of communicating with a broader span of generations through the use of classic rock songs NICOLA: I love the fact that you're both embrace classic rock. Your most recent album was called “Posh Pop” and there's another on the way - TOYAH: Yes  

NICOLA: In saying that do you think that at the heart of all this punk as an ethos, as a rebellion, with its lack of boundaries still drives your art in some way? TOYAH: Well, yeah, absolutely. I think rebellion is in my DNA. I was brought up that way. There's nothing I can do about it. I see the world through different glasses to everyone else. It's extraordinary. However when I tried to just fit in with everyone else I managed to just hit some kind of note that is rebellious. And believe me, I'm not trying! It’s me (Nicola laughs). So I've learned to accept it NICOLA: Oh, wow. You're gonna record “Posh Pop Two”  - I hope you're going to come to Scotland soon with your Sunday Lunches - TOYAH: I am! I'm coming on the Billy Idol tour. We play  the Glasgow Hydro on the 21st of October NICOLA: Oh, fantastic! Well, listen, (I’ll be) down the front for that. It's really, really lovely to speak to you. Thank you so much for coming on Toyah, and thank you for making those Sundays, for what felt like an eternal time, so much brighter. It was so important to people as well. And by the way - the costumes as well - that's a whole other conversation (they both laugh) For now though, absolute pleasure. Let us go back to this new single. Imagine Toyah recording the demo of this! And here she is, released this week, “Slave To The Rhythm”

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BBC RADIO 2 BREAKFAST SHOW WITH GARY DAVIES 16.8.2022

GARY: What can I say that my guest this morning? She’s released more than 20 albums, she's written books, appeared in more than 40 stage productions Over 10 movies, presented and starred in so many TV shows it's impossible to name them all. Toured the world and best of all she's an 80s icon and she's with me right now on Zoom from home - Toyah Willcox. Good morning! TOYAH: Gary. It's so lovely to see you. My goodness, you are a silver fox! GARY: (laughs) And you're still a blonde bombshell I'm pleased to see. How are you doing? TOYAH: I'm really really good. It's been a fantastic year - being able to play live. See my fans again, release new music. It's been very special GARY: So you come from Small Heath in Birmingham (NB It’s King’s Heath). How proud were you when the Commonwealth Games came to Brum?

TOYAH: I am super proud of Birmingham. The Commonwealth Games was effortlessly perfect. Everyone just did so well. Birmingham as a city did brilliantly and I find Birmingham very exciting in this millennium  I was making a movie in Birmingham on a little back street about 2007 called “Battleship Earth” (she means “Invasion Planet Earth”) and we were suddenly approached by Steven Spielberg, who was shooting a test sequence for one of his movies on this street And I found out that even Spielberg loves Birmingham, and the thought that the Eurovision Song Contest could come from Birmingham next year! We've got to  champion this! GARY: I think that would be an amazing idea. And listen, you're an outrageous and an adventurous person. What if you represented us in the Eurovision Song Contest? TOYAH: Oh, that's just too scary - GARY: C’mon! TOYAH: You know, Sam, this year, I mean, my goodness! What a superstar!

GARY: And like you’re not? You’re not exactly shy and retiring are you, Toyah?     TOYAH: I'm not shy and retiring and I certainly could give a good match to Norway's usual entries, especially when it comes to costumes, etc etc. I would do it if I was asked. I think this is a competition for young, new, undiscovered brilliant talent. But I would do it GARY: There's no rules. I think we should put you in the fray. Talk to me about your crazy lunch sessions on YouTube - TOYAH: Sunday Lunch GARY: It’s good to see you're not calming down TOYAH: It's good to see me dressed as well this morning (they both laugh) It started with a 28 second clip I posted in the first three weeks of lockdown two years ago of me teaching my husband Robert Fripp to dance   

He can't tell his left foot from his right foot and we got 100,000 responses within five minutes of me posting this on YouTube from people, who were alone in lockdown and saying that we had given them something to smile about and how much they love that clip   And for the last two and a half years we've continued to do it. We now have 110 million hits worldwide. We've even been approached about a movie being made about it     -  GARY: Seriously?!   TOYAH: Yeah, and we're taking it on the road in October 2023. It's actually become absolutely epic in our life GARY: It’s brilliant! I mean your husband, Robert Fripp, his facial expressions - they are mind blowing, just the way he looks. And you. I mean, you should be ashamed of yourself at that age! (jokingly, laughs) TOYAH: I'm 64 and proud of it GARY: You look fantastic!

TOYAH: Well, thank you. And as you know, Gary, we remain rockers. Age is just a number. And I love the fact that my husband, who is 76, behaves just as badly as me. He is an absolute rock god, he should be an actor            He's so brilliant and this is why he's on my single “Slave To The Rhythm” because he's a great guitarist. The world knows this. He's played with Bowie, Talking Heads, Blondie. He's even played with The Damned And of course he has his band King Crimson, but we now have our band, The Posh Pop Three and our first album in August went to number one in about 36 charts. In the main charts, it went to 22. And this has really launched us and it led to me playing the Isle of Wight for the first time ever in my career in June GARY: I want to talk about that. But I also want to play your new single. It's a cover of Grace Jones’ “Slave To The Rhythm”. I'll play it now and we'll chat about it afterwards, OK? TOYAH: Thank you! GARY: Can I introduce it in the style of Grace Jones? TOYAH: I'd like to hear that

GARY: (does the voice over like in the beginning of the Grace Jones version) Ladies and gentlemen, Miss Toyah Willcox (Plays “Slave To The Rhythm”) GARY: Toyah together with Robert Fripp, “Slave To The Rhythm”. That is Toyah’s brand new single and she's with us live on the show this morning. That is so good TOYAH: Thank you. We wanted something different to the iconic version that Grace Jones did. And we have had Trevor Horn’s blessing. Trevor Horn produced it and my long term writing partner Simon Darlow, who produced this new single … he was kind of the original writer on “Slave To The Rhythm” and I was the demo singer. So this song has one hell of a history and a story not only in my life, but in Grace Jones' life as well GARY: Are you a big fan of Grace Jones? Have you met her? TOYAH: Oh, gosh. Talk about about originality! GARY: Did she inspire you? 

TOYAH: Well, actually my career started almost 10 years before Grace’s career (they both laugh) But what I will say is everything she's done is absolute perfection. Perfection in artistic terms and originality and my goodness, she's amazing on stage GARY: She is, isn't she? So tell me about the new album. When's it coming out? 

TOYAH: Well, we have done a reimagining of “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” (above) with Robert Fripp on it, and this single will be on it. Pre-orders (are open) now, (it will be released) 10th of February, but I've got a lot going on before then - I'm touring with Billy Idol and so much more - GARY: I know! You're so busy! So you've got a tour with Billy Idol in October, which is gonna be brilliant. And then you're off on your Anthem 40 + 1 Tour TOYAH: Yes, that was supposed to be obviously last year and “Anthem” is my big multi-gold album from 1981 which I'm touring right through September, October into November. And luckily Billy Idol’s arena tour fits perfectly with the “Anthem” tour. So I'm touring two shows at once GARY: You’re a workaholic, aren’t you? TOYAH: Well, I'm very, very grateful to see that audience again (laughs) GARY: Tell me about the Isle Of Wight  Festival? So you played it for the first time this year. How was it? TOYAH: It was absolutely extraordinary because I played the big tent and as I stood in the wings waiting I thought a few thousand people will come in, but the crowds just came and came and they were just ramming that tent     

And I think we had about 12,000 people crammed into that tent and people who couldn't get in. And I have a 45 year career with 28 albums to fit into a set. That's a lot to do - and 15 hit singles. So I cherry-picked right from the punk moments through to the present day. We even did “Slave To The Rhythm” and it was magnificent GARY: I've got a few messages coming in here. Trish says good morning, Toyah. I've been a huge fan all my years. I still love your “Anthem” album. Loved you at The Rebellion - TOYAH: Rebellion was amazing! On the promenade at Blackpool GARY: Richard in Tamworth says please tell Toyah my 13 year old son Fraser saw her on Saturday night and she now has a new fan. He loved her and said her ending was awesome TOYAH: Well, I would like to send my love to that brilliant audience. They were out there in 37 degree heat. 10,000 people absolutely loving the music. Thank you Tamworth GARY: Amazing. I've got to ask you about the movie “Give Them Wings”, which is coming out. And it's based on an incredible true story, isn't it? 

TOYAH: This is the story of Paul Hodgson, who when he was very young, he contracted meningitis and became paraplegic. His mother was called Alice and she looked after him til she had a stroke. Then Paul looked after her and he was lost in the system. He didn't get any help. So this is a true story It's released now, we finished it just a month before lockdown. I've been nominated by the best critics award for the Richard Harris Festival as the surprise actress of the season for my role as “Alice” (Toyah with the director Sean Cronin (on the right) and Bill Fellows who plays Norman Hodgson, below) It’s a phenomenal story

GARY: You a play his mother? TOYAH: Yes, I play his mother and believe it or not as sad and as crazy as this story is - because he is a Darlington football fan and he used to go to the football in his wheelchair and he would chant obscenities at the opposition     He even used to get beaten up and he'd still be shouting obscenities at the opposition. Paul Hodgson is still with us. He's a brilliant, brilliant script writer. And he's just the most amazing man and he will sit in his wheelchair and tell you like it is GARY: Still shouting obscenities! Love it! TOYAH: He tells people the truth! GARY: Trevor  in Eastborne says I was lucky to see Toyah at the Isle of Wight. She was amazing! Gave a great performance. James in Northern Ireland: Toyah played at the Let's Rock Festival here and her and her band were fantastic, Toyah rocked and she jumped about just like she's a teenager … I’ve just had a text saying - is it true? You're on The Archers this week?! TOYAH: Yes! (they both laugh)

GARY: How was that?! TOYAH: It was fabulous! We recorded it at The Archers studio in Birmingham. I was on with the icon called Pat. I was there with all the characters, loving every moment of it and I can't tell you the storyline but it's  so funny GARY: Listen, I can't tell you what a pleasure it has been to have you on the show this morning. I love the fact that you grow old disgracefully. Long may it continue. Her new single “Slave To The Rhythm” is out now and you can get tickets for Anthem 40 +1 Tour and you can catch her on The Archers! Thank you, Toyah! TOYAH: Thank you, Gary! Thank you, everybody!

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CHOOSE 80s @ CHILFEST WITH SUE ARCHER 2.7.2022

SUE:  Sick set, Toyah. We always love seeing you. We know you've been really busy lately, you've been doing the Electric Ladies Tour - TOYAH: Yeah, that was amazing! Lene Lovich, myself, Saffron from Republica (below with Toyah). It was absolutely magic SUE: You’ve been waiting a long time to do it. Originally, Hazel was - 

TOYAH: Well, two years ago it was me and Hazel O'Connor and Hazel is recovering. She had a bleed on the brain. She is recovering but she's not ready to perform. So we went out on the road, we did the dates, we're getting a percentage of the profits to Hazel so she doesn't have to hurry back to work. And then we sold her merchandise so she gets all that money SUE: That’s amazing. We've interviewed her a couple of times here and she's just such a lovely lady. So glad to see she's doing well TOYAH: She's improving and she can talk now which is amazing 

SUE: Brilliant news. Over lockdown, I know a lot of people have spoken about it but your videos have just gone mad. It really is a part of your outrageous side or artistic side. It worked for you, didn’t it? TOYAH: It did. I think the timing was aligning with the stars. That's all I can say because to release a 29 second video and suddenly have the whole world watching you is breathtaking and two years later, to have tour offers and TV offers from around the world. Just because of these 90 second videos we now post is just … you couldn't write about it and have people believe it. So it's been quite a wonderful experience SUE: And you’re doing a tour, aren’t you? TOYAH: 2023 we're doing the Toyah and Robert Sunday Lunch tour SUE: So what will that involve? TOYAH: It's going to involve absolutely fantastic rock music. My husband loves my band. So we're slotting him into my band. We have a huge screen. We're telling the story of (it) but it's really a rock show with great humour

SUE: It's fantastic. And I read that you got your first assistant in so many years, 38 years years? TOYAH: Yeah, he's on holiday today (sighs ironically) SUE: You’re just so busy. You've got two albums in the offing - TOYAH: Got 3 now. So we've got the reimagining of an album called “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” that went to number 19 about three years ago. That's been re-recorded with my husband on and a very famous world male singer is on it. That's been released in January. “Anthem”, my gold album has been re-released from 1981 in September. That's just gonna go straight into charts. And we're doing “Posh Pop 2”. So yeah, it's very busy SUE: And you had to turn down the Jubilee bus because you’re so busy - TOYAH: I was in Edinburgh. Yeah. I supposed to be on it with Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell ...

SUE: Oh, well, you've got so much going on anyway. I've got two really quick questions from our followers. 1. Mary Fletcher asked what's your advice for stage fright and audition nerves? She acts and she’s aware that you act too TOYAH: I find this quite easy to answer but hard to practice. You've got to remember the audience want to love you. The audience is there to see you. The audience is there to escape into what you're doing. So forget about yourself. Enjoy it and enjoy the moment. 

SUE: Brilliant. That’s a great answer. Thank you. And finally, Laura Burkin asks Kate Bush’s “Running Up That Hill” has had phenomenal success due to “Stranger Things”. There's another series. Which of your songs do you think would fit into another series of “Stranger Things”? TOYAH: Well, six of my songs have just gone to LA. I can't tell you which ... SUE: Ooh, that’s really exciting TOYAH: Yeah SUE: Have you been watching “Stranger Things?” TOYAH: Yeah, love it. Absolutely love it. And you can guess the whole world wants to wants to be in “Stranger Things” now. But we had a request last week and a meeting last week and we sent six songs over SUE: That’s amazing! So fingers crossed! TOYAH: Well, fingers crossed SUE: Lovely to talk to you, Toyah TOYAH: All right, thank you very much. Thank you

[toyahinterviews]

RETROPOP MAGAZINE AUGUST 2022

[toyahinterviews]

METROLAND MAGAZINE @ CHILFEST 2.7.2022

STEVE: Hello, this is Steve and we’re lucky to have the legendary, and I mean legendary – iconic I think is another word – Toyah! Welcome Toyah! TOYAH: Thank you very much STEVE: Isn’t it so nice to be back on stage again? After lockdown and everything that's happened? TOYAH: I agree, it’s nice to be back but we’ve been on the road for 12 months now so - STEVE: Really? So you’ve kept going - TOYAH: What I’ve noticed is everyone is just getting into the flow of it. They’re relaxing a bit more, trusting the situation and just letting go. It’s taken a few months for that to happen STEVE: I’ve been asking people as well what they’ve done in lockdown but we know what you’ve done because your social media has gone off the scale with your cover versions with your husband, which are just unbelievable. Who’s idea was that? Was that a collaborative idea - TOYAH: In the beginning it was my idea and I designed it all and put it all together but now my husband is so into it he comes up with ideas as well. So he’ll come to me and say “oh, I really fancy playing this riff” and then we just do it so it’s really very organic. We’ve been doing it now for … two years three months. We're touring it next year -

STEVE: Oh, wow! TOYAH: We’re touring it in the UK, we’ve been asked to tour it in the US. It has suddenly become something else (laughs) STEVE: Did you expect it to go as big as it did? TOYAH: No. What happened on the very first film I posted, probably about April the 11th … We posted a film of me teaching him to dance - this is Robert Fripp, my husband - and it instantly went viral and it surprised us. We realised it went viral because there was a lot of people alone at that time – this was April 2020. And we just felt we wanted to keep doing it, we wanted to keep it real

As performers we felt that we should be performing and we didn’t want to just be stuck in a room doing nothing and it really became very good for us and good for our audience as well. It kept us – the muscles were exercised, we were continually running that marathon. Really great fun and very rewarding STEVE: Fantastic. You mentioned about new music and touring, Posh Pop in 2021. Is there any new music in the horizon? Going into the studio or - TOYAH: Oh yeah! Posh Pop was a huge success. STEVE: It’s brilliant! TOYAH: So in January the prequel to Posh Pop comes out. My fans will know what the prequel is. And then in a matter of months we’re starting to write Posh Pop 3. And going straight on the road with that once that’s ready and then …. October 2023 we start touring Sunday Lunch STEVE: OK. That’s amazing. You’ve had a very successful, very diverse career over the years. You’ve had the acting, obviously we know you from "Quadrophenia". Are there any other parts coming up or is it really just concentrating on the music? 

TOYAH: No, I mean the irony of lockdown was I had two movies about to come out. So finished shooting a movie called “Give Them Wings” (Toyah as Alice Hodgson, above) very end of 2019. Two months ago I won Best Supporting Actress at the Richard Harris Awards in Ireland for my role in that

STEVE: Congratulations

TOYAH: Thank you. So that’s got it Leicester Square premiere at the end of this month and then I think it will go straight to streaming. I won a Best Actress Award – or nominated for "The Ghosts Of Borley Rectory", which we shot last year in lockdown and that’s already streaming so I continue to do films. It’s just the nature of how films get out there has radically changed

STEVE: It has. The cinema now is a side product, isn’t it?

TOYAH: Yeah

STEVE: As you say about the streaming, you’re absolutely right. So what are we expecting from the set today? Is it going to be the classics, some new stuff?

TOYAH:

We were told we could only do half an hour. I’m pretty temped to expand it. In half an hour we’re going to get seven songs in. I’ve had 14 Top 40 hits so we’ve got to cherry-pick that

STEVE: You have, yeah and it’s such a long expansive career and people still want to come and listen TOYAH: Yeah, we’re going to do some new stuff today. I’ve got a single out on the 7th of August which is “Slave To The Rhythm" (below), which was the Grace Jones classic. It was originally written for Holly Johnson and Frankie Goes To Hollywood and they didn’t really want to do it Then I did the demo that went to Trevor Horn. I sang that so we come full circle and we felt it's about time that myself, Robert Fripp and my co-writer Simon Darlow – we’re releasing our own version, which we are performing today STEVE: Fantastic, really look forward to that. I know you’re about to go on stage so I want to thank you for your time today and we’re looking forward to your gig. Really excited! TOYAH: Thank you, good to see you all

[toyahinterviews]

ON RECORD | IN CONVERSATION WITH SATNAM RANA 12.5.2022

TOYAH: Hello everybody, how are you? Thank you for being here as well SATNAM: Thank you, Toyah. Oh, I'm so looking forward to this evening. I've enjoyed meeting you briefly behind the scenes but now to put it on tape as they say, well, on the record, and in conversation Toyah, what can I say? Just our Brummie living legend is how I see you. 13 top 40 singles. 25 albums, Toyah’s written two books - TOYAH: I think it's about 30 albums now - SATNAM: I'm going to be corrected (the audience laughs) Two books, appeared in a bit over 40 stage plays by now as well. Acted in 20 feature films at least, including of course, the epic “Jubilee”. Presented hundreds and hundreds of TV programmes and released “Posh Pop” last August, which was your first solo album of course since 2008

So as I said, truly a living legend. You don't know this but when I first started my career in 1999, at Radio Five Live at Television Centre … I actually caught you in the corridor of the Five Live studios and I just remember this ball of energy and everyone saying “it’s Toyah Willcox, Satnam! It’s Toyah Willcox!” And I feel like that right now! TOYAH: Was that Portland Place? SATNAM: It was Television Centre at White City TOYAH: You know, I think I do remember it. I really do. Because I only ever did Radio Five Live once - SATNAM: Really? TOYAH: Yeah, so I remember it. Yeah, because it terrifies me, Radio Five Live - I mean, they’re so brutal. It's like throwing yourself to wolves. Why would anyone want to do it?

SATNAM: I just remember the buzz and the excitement and I just remember you because you were so smiley and so warm and so friendly. So it's a beautiful memory. And for me really it's a memory I hold dear to my heart because those early days were so important and influential in terms of starting out in the media. But what I want to know is - I've given you a bit of a Wikipedia catalogue of Toyah . . . Where do you get the energy from? TOYAH: Well, I have this saying, and I heard Lulu say this. She was doing a kind of lifetime interview on Radio 2. And the presenter said to her “Lulu, why do you keep going?” and Lulu said something that really resonated with me. She said “I'm hoping I'll be discovered” SATNAM: Love it! TOYAH: It's so extraordinary. And I don't know if it's like it for other artists but everything I do - I feel is just two steps forward three steps back. Now that may sound negative because I actually think the best part of the creative process is being in the process (of) not finishing 

But it gets tough and it can be tough, and I'm forever that youngest child in the family trying to prove myself and I think that's where the energy comes from SATNAM: I want to take you back then right to the beginning, if you don't mind. So I said to my colleagues "oh yeah, Toyah Willcox, Birmingham." "Oh we didn't realise Toyah was from Birmingham", but you were born here, weren’t you? TOYAH: I was conceived and born in the same bed (the audience laughs, Satnam giggles) Now in retrospect I find this really entertaining, because I'm about to turn 64 and you never think of your parents having sex But when you look back and you think I was conceived and born in the same bed, which is kind of a very weird thing to say these days. So I was born 119 Grove Road,King's Heath, Birmingham 64 years ago. And my mother kept that bed right until she passed (they all laugh) SATNAM: Oh my goodness!

TOYAH: I remember having to throw it out when I was clearing her cottage and I'm thinking I'm throwing away the bed I was conceived in. Is this right? So yes, a lot of sex went on in King's Heath (the audience laughs) SATNAM: I'm already thinking will the BBC be able to broadcast this but it is a podcast so I think we can get away with it (they all laugh) What sort of child were you? Were you a shy child, a loud child? When I think Toyah I think flamboyant and out there 

TOYAH: I was very, very happy. My mother didn't understand why she would catch me looking in a mirror just laughing. I was very happy in my own company. One thing I had absolutely no realisation about was I had a speech impediment. And I was born with a twisted spine and I had what's called “W legs”. My legs pointed kind of inwards So I had a very funny gait. So I not only laughed a lot, people actually laughed a lot at me. So I had to have a lot of elocution lessons. The children's hospital, the orthopaedic hospital literally was 100 yards down Broad Street. I was in there every six months being monitored for correction surgery, taught how to walk. My mother was my physio So that was my normality. And I was okay with it. And I never understood it was different, until I realised I wanted to act and sing and then I realised there was something different but it was a blessing. Because the National Theatre embraced my lisp. They embraced the fact that I had found a way to move that made me stand out from everyone else 

So I was very, very lucky to be in this kind of physical situation. And it's only today I can really say that and trust it and trust that what I went through actually helped me drive a wedge right through into the heart of the music industry SATNAM: I suppose if you have a start like that, it makes you utterly resilient TOYAH: Well, I just wasn't aware of it. And it wasn't until … I just thought I was the youngest and my brother and sister used to treat me like a toy. I mean, my brother has broken so many of my bones. It's ridiculous. He used to just throw me up in the air and not catch me (the audience laughs)   I remember that he threw me up in the air once and I broke my arm in two places, and my mother made me change my knickers before the ambulance came (Satnam and the audience laugh) You asked me why I'm resilient - it's pretty obvious why I'm resilient! I just had to fend for myself

SATNAM: And that actually, I imagine, was a huge asset for you breaking through the music industry at a time when quite frankly women didn't necessarily have an equal place in the industry. But we'll come to that. So I was going to ask you about the impact it had on your personality, but it sounds as if actually it helped build your personality - TOYAH: I think it did. And I also had the complexity. Now, we've only got 45 minutes, but the complexity of my mother, and I didn't know until the 3rd of December last year what the beginning of her life was like. My mother was the most difficult, the most obstructive human being I've ever known. She just could not tell you a truth. She could not tell you anything complimentary. And then she couldn't say the words “I love you” And then December the 3rd last year ancestry.com got in touch with me and they said “we need to see you in a room with a counsellor”. I thought my God, this is a bit heavy. And then they showed me the press cuttings that my mother, we think she was about 16, was locked in a room with her abusive father and he murdered her mother. And the father went to court and he was in prison for three months   

Now, I think the psychology of my mother - because she never told any of us this and me and my mom fought like cat and dog. We physically would roll out of the house in a physical fight. I think my mother felt in court - I don't think she was probably even in court - she wasn't allowed to testify. She wasn't allowed to give her side of the story. And she came out of that feeling she could never tell her truth And I never knew this about her. If I knew this, I would have been really kind to her. And I would have been more inclusive with her. So that kind of upbringing for me just made me more and more individual and rebellious. I mean, she couldn't have got a worse daughter in her situation 

SATNAM: So that's interesting because she obviously embarked upon having a family. There’s yourself, you've got two elder siblings. It's almost contrary to what you would expect - TOYAH: It’s a bit of a story because she didn't learn to read or write. She only learned to ballet dance, and by the time she was 12 she was already a professional performer. By the time this incident happened with her parents she had to have a chaperone with her 24 hours a day and I reckon this is because the father was getting out in three months So when my father met my mother - he saw her on stage at Weston-super-Mare opening for the comedian Max Wall - and my father fell in love with her and followed her around the country. And he wasn't ever alone with her until the wedding night, because the chaperone wouldn't leave her. And he never understood that SATNAM: So is there any correlation then between your mum entering the entertainment industry, as potentially escapism from her situation? And you also entering the entertainment industry as an escapism? 

TOYAH: I firmly believe that when children form in the belly they pick up memories, and I definitely picked up my mother's memories - the good memories, and I think she loved being on stage. She was phenomenally beautiful, and she was educated to be on stage. That's all that she had. And I think instinctively I picked that up without any self-awareness So what was so unusual about me is I came into this world, I auditioned at the (Birmingham) Rep, I was dressing at the Alexandra Theatre, I was dressing at the Hippodrome. I did my first ever singing publicly at a pub called The Jug, which I believe was where this building is now. You know, I had no self-consciousness whatsoever. And I think that was my strength. I had this incredible inner confidence SATNAM: And did she put any pressure on you - or your father, indeed, any pressure on you at any point to conform? I know he said you’re a rebel but to conform and do the whole marriage thing and the children thing like she had done? 

TOYAH: No. The advice they gave me is don't get pregnant and don't go to jail. (the audience and Satnam laugh) I mean, that was the extent of the advice. And when I introduced my husband-to-be Robert Fripp to them, they both burst out laughing and they ran in the kitchen - this was at Grove Road at King’s Heath - and I went in I said “is there a problem?” And they said “is he mad?” (the audience laughs) So you know, they never ever really believed in me, and it wasn't until I did the National Theatre when I was 18 I was spotted with my green and yellow hair walking down New Street by two directors who wanted me to go and audition for a play at Pebble Mill that led to me to go to the National Theatre. My parents came and saw me at the National Theatre but they didn't really take me seriously til I got Top of the Pops, which was four years later. So it was a long journey of winning them over to my side SATNAM: So how does family life contrast now then with the way you were brought up and what sounds like a very self-assured and almost inner strength upbringing on your part? Very individualistic. How does it compare now? 

TOYAH: Well, I don't have family now. So when I say that my sister (Nicola, above with Toyah in 2018) lives near Brighton. She's a remarkable woman. Absolutely remarkable. She studied at Dudley Road to be a nurse. She went into very advanced accounting. She was Alan Miliband’s right hand woman during that period in politics and helped build this massive hospital on the Euston Road in London  And then her last job in the NHS, before she sailed around the world - she was part of the NHS response team to terrorism at the Olympics. And what toughened her up - she was present at the pub bombings. She was on site at the Birmingham pub bombings 

And that really toughened her up and she's had a remarkable career. Now, my brother was one of only four Harrier fighter pilots 1972 to 74 because they cost 12 million each to train. So he was remarkable as well. And I do remember my parents saying once they had no idea where the three of us came from (the audience laughs) They have no faith in any of us! SATNAM: It was the magic bed! TOYAH: It was the magic bed! It was the water of King's Heath that did it! (they all laugh) SATNAM: Tell me a little bit about your school, then TOYAH: Colmore Row, Edgbaston. It was an all girls school. It was a very good school in that it was multicultural. It was very, very brilliant like that and I loved it for that. And I loved the mix of cultures. This is how I ended up living with a Hindi family. But also they took in disabled children. My classmates - one was blind. One had the same kind of gait as me. There were other pupils who were going off to hospital meetings. I was there from kindergarten from the age of four and a half til I left at the age of, I think, 17 

But around the 11 Plus, I just went AWOL. I went from being a very brilliant artist mathematician to just not fitting in the system. It got too quick for me. I couldn't pick it up. So I was very disruptive. I was absolutely appalling   And I was appalling to the point that the headmistress once came to me to ask me to control the other girls. I was like the school Mafia. She said “look, Toyah, they all look up to you. They all think you're fantastic. We're having a bit of trouble with so and so. Could you go and have a word with her?” SATNAM: So tell me about your Hindi family and I’m curious - TOYAH: Selwyn Road, Edgebaston SATNAM: Very posh. They took you in, but also at the same time they warned you, didn’t they?

TOYAH: I had a massive fight with my mother. It was massive and we couldn't be kept in the same house. And Mrs. Gerage phoned my father (Beric, below with Toyah) up. She was a doctor. And she said, “look, I will take Toyah in and we'll keep her until this all calms down.” And as I arrived, and Mrs. Gerage opened the door and said “you will not influence my daughters!” (the audience laughs) Her daughters looked like supermodels. They didn't need me. I mean, they were getting all the attention of the boys of Birmingham. They were absolutely gorgeous. And I stayed there for a couple of months until it all blew over, until my mother and I could be put in the same room together and we could talk again

SATNAM: It's amazing actually just to know that camaraderie and the essence of our city, our multicultural city, that togetherness actually existed back in the  - I'm guessing this in the 70s, isn’t it? TOYAH: I was born in 1958 … this would have been about 1972 SATNAM: Yeah, that for me, actually, is a really nice prism into the past of what Birmingham is like and it's just grown, flourished - TOYAH: Birmingham is gorgeous. I mean, I would go to Snobs club, which was just over there. I loved it! Friday and Saturday. It was amazing! And the Embassy that served warm wine (the audience laughs) and I would go to the Locarno (Dance Hall). I saw Hawkwind when I was 11. I think I saw Black Sabbath when I was about 12. Just a fabulous city for culture and music and friendship. Beautiful

SATNAM: And security guards who never checked ages as well (the audience laughs) So you've talked a bit about school, but what are you passionate about? TOYAH: My mother and I used to get on really well and there was a point where that relationship changed. She took me to the Gaumont Cinema of Corporation Street to see “The Sound Of Music” and we went seven times in a row. And I turned to my mother and I said “that's what I'm going to do” And it threatened her. It upset her. It wasn't jealousy. It just connected her to something she was trying to forget. And from that point onwards I saw the barrier go up, and my determination just got stronger And I think I just started to do anything I possibly could to get closer into show business. Now, we had a family friend at the time and this was a really big stroke of luck. He was the artistic director, the managing director of Pebble Mill. And he said to my parents “your daughter is very, very special. Get her into drama school”

So he nominated me into the Old Rep Theatre School on Station Road. And that was really the beginning of my life. Because this was around the time of the Birmingham pub bombings Every Friday, I would pay for my dance lesson. And then every Saturday I would go into drama school because I was only 14. And then I would get a job either selling cigarettes at John Lewis' or working in the china department. As you can guess I lied about my age the whole time - SATNAM: A lot! (laughs) TOYAH: A lot! And no one checked your age so I could pay for the drama school. But this then led me to being a dresser. I dressed the whole of the Dad's Army touring company, which was the same as the TV cast. I dressed Judy Geeson, I dressed Simon Williams, I dressed Sylvia Syms. I was in the ballet Rambert as a walk-on artist, all before I was a legal age. And I just loved it and they loved me and Judy Geeson called me her “bird of paradise”

SATNAM: How beautiful - TOYAH: So I was accepted. Really accepted

SATNAM: So how did that then evolve into - obviously, when music came it was punk? TOYAH: The Sex Pistols played Birmingham only twice and I believe it was 1976. The first time was August at Barbarella’s. And the second time was October at Bogarts just pass the Town Hall. I was at that gig. So at that time I was about 16,  possibly turning 17 and I'd already been making my own clothes since I was 12   But my mother took me at the age of 14 to Rackhams hair department and a man called Derek Goddard cut my hair. And he said “you should be a hair model. I'm going to dye it blue” SATNAM: Oh, is that how it started?! 

TOYAH: That’s how it started. This is you know, pre-punk. He dyed my hair blue and I went home in a headscarf and I wore this headscarf at home and at school for two weeks and eventually my mother had the guts to pull the headscarf off and she screamed. She cried. She howled   And that was the beginning of the end. I became a model for Wella, through Rackhams. I travelled the whole of the UK as a hair model. I walked the catwalks of Blackpool (the audience laughs), the catwalks of Blackburn, of London in my  pre-punk gear

I just became the girl who would do anything with her hair. And I got spotted. I got spotted by the Bicat brothers who wanted to know about me. And they tracked me down to drama school and said “we have to audition this girl” and I never looked back. Now that was a stroke of luck. The next stroke of luck the play was on BBC Two Second City Firsts. My play was called “Glitter”         I had to write two songs and record them with a band called Bilbo Baggins (Colin Chisholm of the band with Toyah, below) that were like the little brothers to the Bay City Rollers. And the play was based around a girl who broke into the Top Of The Pops studio. I mean talk about art imitating life (Satnam laughs)

When this played on BBC Two in October of that year, the world famous German film star Maximilian Schell was watching with Kate Nelligan, and Kate turned to him and said “there's our Emma in “Tales From The Vienna Woods”, which was opening at the National Theatre in February the following year. So I moved to London and lived with Kate Nelligan for nine months. I turned up on the first day of rehearsal with a bag of salmon sandwiches (the audience laughs) that my mother made me My parents dropped me at New Street Station, got the train into Euston, got to the National Theatre, sat next to Brenda Blethyn with my salmon sandwiches and Brenda turned to me and said “where you're going to live?” and I said “I'll commute from Birmingham” and she said “you won't be able to do it, you won't be able to keep it up. Come and live on my sofa”     I thought I don't want to live on your sofa. I mean, God, if only I knew what was going to happen to her 10 years later. And Kate Nelligan says “I have a granny flat. Come and live with me” and I lived in her granny flat. It was so kind!

SATNAM: Yeah. Do you feel that same camaraderie is still there in the industry? TOYAH: It's definitely there SATNAM: Because we don't get to see that side, do we? TOYAH: It’s so rarely you come across someone who's difficult to deal with. Very, very rare. I can count them on one hand after 42 years in the business SATNAM: So who influenced you the most? TOYAH: Well, I love the era when men started wearing makeup. Marc Bolan, David Bowie, Alice Cooper and then you know, I was a star in the 80s so I had Duran Duran. That’s just great! I love men wearing makeup. The big life changing moment for me was definitely Ziggy Stardust and seeing David Bowie at the New Theatre in Coventry 1972 

I mean, I just knew I could do nothing but music at that point. It was a freedom - his  whole body was involved in the music. He wasn't just a musician. I mean, obviously the costumes and the makeup were absolutely breathtaking, the songs were exhilarating, but it was his complete loss into that character that I found utterly unforgettable and life changing SATNAM: And does that still influence you now? TOYAH: Yeah, absolutely. When you see artists who just disappear into the event - I have such admiration for that. It's not a construct. It's not fake. They’re actually plugging into something that is supernatural. And I love it SATNAM: And so I think when I look back at your catalogue, and I sense that … TOYAH: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, part of that was just trying to escape everything. Escape the kind of the toughness of being brought up in a middle class family, a wealthy middle class family, but that whole physicality was a challenge for me. I used to have to hide the braces in my boots         So for the first couple of years I used to wear thigh boots with hidden braces to equal out my walk. So everything for me was about twisting the truth and not letting the truth be seen on a certain level

But even now, when I get on stage, I get taken over by the event. I always say this to my audience - no audience is ever predictable or ever the same. Every musical performance is utterly unique. And you can see it when an artist goes on stage and it's not unique for them. And they tend to be the huge A listers, believe it or not, and it might be because of the sheer size of the venues they play. But for me - I get completely taken over and lost in the event. And it's a great feeling. It's very rewarding 

SATNAM: Were you influenced by your father and his Buddhism and being on that different, almost spiritual stroke musical plain when you are in that moment of being onstage? TOYAH: I was definitely influenced by my father always seeing something in the room no one else could see and he didn't mind talking about it. So he was always referring to his grandparents. He was always referring to them being around, being in the room. Something, you know, tipping on the table. He just picked it up and there is that otherness. What I love about the fact when I sing - I have to stop people talking to me just as I go on stage, because I have no idea what the first line is. No idea! 

And if someone comes up to me as I'm about to go on, and this happened at Hendley, a huge festival, someone came up to me and I was being announced and they went “Hi Toyah, how are you? How's it going on?” So I said “I’m just going on stage” and I picked the mic up and I was supposed to start with "Thunder In The Mountains" and I started with “I'm well today” and it is completely subliminal where you find those words I play a very cruel game with myself and I'm in the middle of the song and I'm thinking I'm about to start the next verse and I haven't got a clue what that line is. And it just comes like that. So I think that is part of why I really trust the process. And I go somewhere I'm not connected to in the every day SATNAM: That's about the now. What about the first gig? What was that like? That must have been terrifying?

TOYAH: No, it was really bad. It was a synagogue in Golders Green. I remember Will Self, the writer was in the audience. So at this point he wasn't very famous. And there was also … I can't remember his name now but he's the main foreign correspondent for ITV News – he was in the audience. It was their very first gig And I was in this punk band, and my drummer and my first co-writer Joel Bogen (below with Toyah) - very honourable, traditional Jewish people. We never worked on a Friday. They were with the family every Friday, and they got us a gig in a synagogue, and I drank a bottle of vodka (the audience laughs) And this progressed right through the show and by the fourth number I was unconscious on the stage and everyone thought it was part of the show and it was nerves. I apparently pulled it off because Will Self says it's one of his favourite gigs (the audience laughs)

SATNAM: I love that! TOYAH: But this was the height of punk. So everyone expected bad behaviour

SATNAM: And anything goes, I suppose, in the height of punk as well. So how different is Toyah the performer to Toyah the person? TOYAH: I think Toyah the performer is far more interesting. I really think that person is who I want to be. I hate talking about myself as some kind of third entity, but when I'm not performing I'm a businesswoman. I don't have management. I manage everything. And unfortunately I do a lot of managing for of my husband as well So when I'm off stage, I have an office at home. I have to check everything, I have to check the contracts, the accounts, everything is really backbreakingly dull. And then the moment I get in the car and I go to a gig it's like normality. I don't have to do the accounts anymore. So it's very, very different. I am a businesswoman 

SATNAM: I hear you. I think anyone in this game knows that. One minute you can put your knickers in the washing machine and the next minute your lipstick’s on and you're on TV TOYAH: And honestly, I do not know how any woman or father (who) has a family, runs a family and has a job. I really don't know how you do it. Because, I mean, I'm working from six in the morning until about midnight. And that's my normal day. And some people have to fit children in. I don't know how they do it SATNAM: When I told my auntie about Toyah tonight, she was well impressed. I was like the favourite niece in the family at the weekend. But actually, you're kind of one of the original feminists for me, you liberated a lot of young women 

TOYAH: I think that's very generous because for me, it was the women of the late 60s into the early 70s who really were pushing up the glass ceiling and breaking rules and rewriting the rulebook. I think what happened with me is that punk came along and there was something about punk that accepted all types of human beings.  All types of men, all types of women     And it accepted a kind of political correctness that we have today. That gay people were safe in our company, people of all cultures were safe in our company. And it allowed me to be me, to assert a certain point where I didn't have to hide my natural self

And when I left Birmingham at the age of 18, I was making my own clothes. I was quite a lot heavier than I am now. And punk didn't ever see that. They saw me as a person, as an individual, someone with ideas, someone who wanted to perform, to be part of the music. I wasn't judged for my physicality. And then when I got signed to a label that kind of changed because Top Of The Pops was in the sights and they wanted to sell more product. I was advised to lose weight      

Not a problem because when I did “Quadrophenia” (Toyah running down the street in Brighton, below) I was on speed 24 hours a day (the audience laughs) When I did “Quadrophenia” it was quite a journey to get there because Franc Roddam, the director, asked me to get Johnny Rotten through a screen test to play the lead in “Quadrophenia” and he was absolutely phenomenal on camera, but they couldn't get the finance for the film if Johnny was in in it. But that man has a future as an actor. He is so good And then I didn't hear back from Franc Roddam and I was working with Katharine Hepburn in the same studio Making “The Corn Is Green” and I just pestered Roddam. I was banging on the window of his office saying “give me a job! Give me a job!” And when I got the job of Monkey in “Quadrophenia” through sheer persistence and he was unable to find the actress that he could see in his mind's eye, I was also making “Quartermass” with Sir John Mills. So I was doing night shoots and day shoots. So I started to take diet pills. I lost three stone 

I remember once I went into the day shoot. I was in the makeup room with Sting sitting next to me, because Sting was in “Quadrophenia” and I was coughing really badly and the makeup artist put the brushes down and she said to the management on site “I’m getting her to hospital now.” And she took me to where this enormous hotel is - I think it's The Langham in Hyde Park corner that used to be a hospital      She took me in. I had pneumonia. Taken back to the set in Southgate with penicillin and just carried on my routine filming in the daytime and filming right through the night with Sir John Mills. But I loved every minute of it. It was exhilarating 

SATNAM: I can still feel the exhilaration that you felt back then right now, with you just describing it. You still have that va va voom about you. A lot of people might get to a certain point in the industry and sort of think “OK, time to pause and cash in on the back catalogue.” You have evolved and the music industry has evolved in so many ways as well. So how has that evolution into digital helped or hindered? TOYAH: There definitely has been a phase in my life where I wasn't doing what I felt I should be doing. So throughout the 90s I was a TV presenter, and I'm not dissing that because I was actually earning a living at that point. It was very lucrative, but my heart was in music and I was going home every night just feeling hollow   As if I hadn't achieved anything because I knew that I'm a performer. I act and I sing and that's it. And then I was in a play in 2002 at Soho Theatre, tiny, tiny little theatre and the management brought me a fax and the fax said “Toyah, how do you feel about playing Wembley Arena?” I thought it was a joke

And I contacted the agent and they said "no, we are going to sell out 16,000 seats at Wembley Arena. It'll be you, Tony Hadley, Belinda Carlisle, Kim Wilde" and we did it. I've not looked back since 2002. I've got my foothold back in music   But then the biggest and most important thing that happened to me, because after about 1984 I had no access to my musical catalogue ... I could perform it live, but I had no access to promote it as physical record sales. And I tried to buy the catalogue three years ago and the record company Safari would not sell it (to) me and I put in the highest bid So this just shows the sexism even today. But a very good company did buy it. Cherry Red Records bought it and now are re-releasing all my catalogue. So in the last 10 months I've been in the album charts, three or four times in the Top 30 I think. I believe even in the Top 10  

And then I managed to sign my two new albums “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” and “Posh Pop” to Demon Music which is part of the BBC and “Posh Pop” went number one in 32 charts last August. So it's perseverance. (the audience applauds) Thank you. I have to add, I got the news two days ago that I've got a Best Actress nomination - SATNAM: Woop woop! (the audience applauds) TOYAH: For the Richard Harris Film Festival for the movie “Give Them Wings” (Toayh as Alice Hodgson, below), which we only completed two weeks before lockdown began and it's been waiting to come out. And that's gleaned me two Best Actress nominations. And I also did another movie in lockdown called “The Ghosts Of Borley Rectory” that got me a nomination for Best Supporting Actress up against Julian Sands

So I've been really really busy. And I think like all of us - if Covid hadn't come about and lockdown hadn't come about I would perhaps be in a different place today even but I don't regret it because YouTube has really changed my life

SATNAM: And of course it has and I tell you what - you have really changed our Sunday lunches as well! (the audience applauds) I mean how …  tell me ... and how do you manage to keep the tape on? (Toyah and the audience laugh) TOYAH: Firstly, I want to put this in perspective. The Kardashians probably pay about 100 K a week for the publicity and that publicity machine they keep running. It is a multimillion pound industry to keep them up there. Now I can't afford even 10 pounds a week for publicity   So I realised after posting the very first film exactly a year ago April last year, it was me teaching my husband to jive. We posted this 29 second film clip, and within five minutes it had 100,000 replies (from) around the world And we realised the power of YouTube and the power of us as a couple. So we persevered. He hated it. I mean he hated me for “Swan Lake” where he's in a tutu (the audience laughs) and dancing by the River Avon. I mean it got headlines in Italy! “What's happened to Robert Fripp?!” (Satnam cackles)

But eventually, we persevered and in January 2021 we hit 10 million views on “Enter Sandman” by Metallica because I went braless and wore a see-through T-shirt. And you say I'm a feminist! (the audience laughs) I honestly think that what happened was we realised the power of the female form, the power of our mutual love and the power of this wonderful man who's in his mid 70s, who can play guitar so brilliantly. So we are now exploring how do we do this and really address feminism. And it's an interesting one because I believe Madonna is a phenomenal feminist. And in the early 90s she did a book called “Sex” which for me was a step too far. She gave too much away So my thinking is - I'm 64 in two weeks. I want to tell the world that life should be fabulous forever and ever and ever. You don't stop believing in yourself. So there's that going on. There's also the right to be very physical and extreme without feeling threat. And I only ever do this in the company of my husband   

So I'm not on “OnlyFans” - I refuse to do all that. On "CelebVM", which I do do, I get the odd request for the see-through T-shirt and I write back and I say "you're so kind, you're so sweet, but only my husband sees that and 64 million other people" ... SATNAM: I love it! I love it. And you know, my favourite one is jogging in the kitchen. I know that's quite recent, but jogging in the kitchen just made me think oooh, Toyah … I just don't look as good as you when I try and do it at home - 

TOYAH: That’s what I did to make my husband laugh. I do that so we decided to put it on film. This morning - I can tell you this, we filmed The Cranberries “Zombie”, and I have a problem with brilliant songs. They make me cry. And this song is one of the best songs in the history of music and it's written by a woman, but it's also a very powerful song. And I didn't want to expose my body during it. And I thought how are we going to do this? Because we will go from 200,000 hits in an hour to 5000, it will drop because my best friends on my chest are very, very popular (the audience laughs) So I do a lot of artwork and in my art room I have a lot of silver leaf so I covered my body in silver leaf and I look fantastic! (above) And it's still respectful to the song. That's this Sunday SATNAM: So we've all got a treat in for us for Sunday lunch, ladies and gentlemen. So how has this whole punk, pop lifestyle, acting, presenting, writing benefitted you? 

TOYAH: I do get pissed off that I'm not playing arenas every single night. My ego and my vanity - yep, it's there. It's really there. But I've had a 42 year career where I've been in front of audiences so close that I can feel their emotional experience. And when people say to me, why are you playing small venues?     Well, firstly, that's the venues I fill but I would never ever leave that behind because when I look into someone's eyes and if they're in a wheelchair, if they got crutches behind their seat, if they're crying during “It’s A Mystery” I want to be there to witnesses this. I don't want to be so far away I never see that moment. So how have I benefited from it? I think it's made me a far better human being that I work at the level I work SATNAM: I love that.  For you, Birmingham - how do you feel that people perceive your city, the city that you were born in, that gave you that formative education and training, which propelled you into the big wide world of London and showbiz? 

TOYAH: So how does the world perceive it? How does the rest of the UK? SATNAM: Yeah TOYAH: I think it deserves better because we have a phenomenal musical heritage. But I do think people genuinely know this is a location city, a vacation location, a destination city and what people don't know and what they really should know this is Steven Spielberg's chosen city to come and do test shoots in and if people knew that, I think they’d view the city differently   I was shooting “Battleship Earth” (she means "Invasion Planet Earth", Toyah with the director Simon Cox (on the left) and Simon Haycock who plays Thomas Dunn, below) and we were shooting on a back street in Digbeth on a green screen.       And we couldn't use the lane outside because Spielberg was there doing a test shoot, and this was about eight years ago and nobody knew he was there. And we were just beside ourselves because we felt part of it. Now if Spielberg feels that way about this city, then the whole world should know about it

SATNAM: I remember that because I chased him around Birmingham for about four days. We did get sight of him and we got him on Midlands Today eventually (Satnam laughs)

TOYAH: And another one very, very quickly - when I first met my husband I took him to a pub in a place called Wyre Piddle just outside of Pershore. He was looking at the bar menu on the chalkboard and this man came up to him and said, “well, that and that and that was really tasty. And if you haven't had that, try that” and the man went through the whole menu. And my husband came back to me and he said “I've got a new best friend”. And I said yep, that's Birmingham people for you SATNAM: Absolutely. You can take people out of Birmingham, West Midlands, but you can never take the Brummie West Midlands off them. We're really warm hearted and this is a city that really embraces absolutely everything from musical genres to different people. I've got one final question that I'm dying to ask you 

And I suppose I'm asking you because I'm a woman and I'm a mum, and I'm nowhere near as successful as you, but nevertheless have a taste of the industry so to speak. You don't have children, but what I find quite intriguing is that both you and your husband want to leave your your fortune to some form of music academy for young people, I believe. Why is that? TOYAH: It's very generous of you to say we're going to leave our fortune because he spends money - SATNAM: You live in Pershore now - TOYAH: Where we live we just bought the bank next door which is becoming an archive building of both our careers. I mean, that's like the white elephant in our life at the moment. I'm just getting through everything But we've decided that we will leave everything - our archive, his archive, and the remaining monies and I think it's going to be okay because we’re going to be worth more dead than alive. We're going to leave it to an educational fund, a trust, so that kids can have funding to go to drama school and music school. (the audience applauds) Thank you

SATNAM: And that is something really close to my heart. Because you're talking to the girl whose parents could not afford to send her to Central Drama School over the square there at the Rep when I was a teenager - (then) kind of muddled through and found my own way   But to know that there are children in the future who will have unlocked opportunities is just absolutely amazing and actually at the beginning of our chat, I said you are living legend. You're not a living legend. You are just a legend (the audience applauds) TOYAH: Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you