#trans men can do more than just that... why are the Vast majority of smut fics with Vash bottoming...

[orcelito]

Ykno it kinda makes me uncomfortable when ppl refer to Vash's genitals with smth like "vashussy". "Plantussy" gets a pass from me bc it's referring to the specific way that the plant biology would be different, but Vashussy???? Do you refer to Any character's genitals like that, or are you just being weird about a trans man??

[i-did]

hi hello i couldn't sleep last night so i was scrolling thru all ur asks and stuff and ur opinions and analyses are so interesting!!! and then afterwards i was thinking about what u were saying about mlm smut and i'd also been thinking about such things a little bit recently bc like.....at a certain point it becomes quite clear that the vast majority of smut-writing is just imitation. like there's the sex noise verb list and all and the whole general mechanics of the sex and those things just .... replicate over and over. and the whole thing w people writing mlm vs wlw smut regardless of their own sexual orientation..... like i feel like a big part of that is just a self-perpetuating thing. like if u have not had sex and u r getting all ur (pleasure-related) sex ed from fandom (even if u do watch porn, that doesn't rlly tell u how to describe stuff? idk) regardless of What fandom , the majority is going to be mlm smut. which is itself majority imitation of other mlm smut, imitating and imitating back to whoever knows what the first smut fanfic was etc. there's just way More to mimic than there is on the women side of things. which then becomes a self-perpetuating thing, bc the mimicry continues and generates more and more. and---if there are fundamental misunderstandings of anatomy involved---those self-perpetuate as well. and maybe even exaggerate. and yeah. does this all make sense? idk i was just thinking about it. like all the stereotypes and stuff continue bc writers are getting their inspo from other writers rather than their own brains. or something. idk!!!!! it's just all... divorced from reality? bc words. or something!! i hope u get what i'm trying to say. just thoughts i've been thinking. anyway i think ur thoughts are cool. and ur writing. ok bye have a good day!!

Okay yeah this is kinda messy but hope u see this, uhh yeah I think you're right about the echo chamber effect fr about stuff. I think it's a mix of projecting too sometimes. talk more under the cut and also link to a video essay since I love video essays.

Here’s a video that sort of touches on this topic: 

“Gay fanfiction” by Sarah Z. (has CC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8E_C00dKwI

This video begins to talk about fetishization at the end, but also… not really. The words “gay fanfiction” is used as a catchall, when really gay fanfiction is largely mlm written by non-mlm.

Fandom is a largely women's space dominated by the female gaze in a media industry world that is dominated by men and the male gaze. I'm really glad women have this space to explore creativity and queerness, and I don't expect the female gaze to go away, but I am still ultimately bummed out I can’t read most fanfic or interact with most fandom spaces without having fetishization in my face. 

So about 80% of fandom is women, and most of those women aren't straight, but 90% of those women prefer mlm ships. Why don’t they prefer wlw ships? Well definitely part of it is the fact that queerbaiting is centered around white straight men, and then there is also the fact that women tend not to be written as well charcter wise. But the fact still remains that you get jerjean getting priority over Layla and Alvarez who are in canon just as much and are a canon wlw couple who actually interact as well as Alvarez could likely be a woc because of her Hispanic last name. Korasami doesn’t get nearly as much hype as zuko and saka, despite the fact that they are 2 fully dimensional characters who canonly kiss and hold hands, something the creators fought for and ended up having to sacrifice another reboot for. 

I do believe the fandom echo-chamber is largely responsible for… a lot of things, like you're saying. But what's interesting is that the complaints I've heard about visual porn from non mlm in the fandom space is that they can’t get off to it because its for the male gaze and misogynistic usually. But they also don't seem to notice how the mlm smut circles has the female gaze and is also… almost always mlm. If it was a pure anatomical not knowing thing, I get that, but I also think that leads to the question of “then why the male body for porn, and not your own? The one you know and are familiar with?” 

I know some people want to get outside of their own body for porn and don’t want to think of their own anatomy at all, but overall I'm still uncomfortable. If an anglo said “well I watch porn of only Mexicans so I don't self insert” I'm gonna be like … hhhh in a similar way. I understand people “like what they like” but I wish they also noticed said patterns in the first place. I understand the t4t tumblr porn circle, and how it's different from cis people who only watch trans porn. 

I actually wished that instead of fandom focusing on mlm ships where some asshole guy hits on bottom troupe charcter for top troupe character to save, was instead… a wlw character experiencing said shitty getting hit on and other wlw swooping in. what's interesting is fandom writes a lot about misogynistic experiences without often realizing it. Ive read fanfic where guys get called sluts for sleeping with people or called bitch for speaking their mind, these arent things men usually experience, but rather women. Fandom has a lot of internalized misogyny and also queerphobia imo. Women characters often get pushed to the sidelines and men become the canvas for female fans to project onto. 

There is this natural inclination to mlm. When people are talking about “gay shipping” or “gay books” or “gay feels” or even just “gay” mlm is what’s largely in mind. I honestly am kinda saddened by this because if gay fanfiction was really solely about writing more to feel represented, then you would see a lot of bi and ace and lesbian rep, but this isn't the case. Queer women are seriously underrepresented, and I want to hear their stories and read them in fanfiction as well as published. 50% of lgbt literature is mlm, and of that its largely written by women. Becky Albertalli, Rainbow Rowell, Maggie Stiefvater, are the YA big names and are all women writing mlm. Red white and royal blue is written by Casey McQuiston and Captive prince (which is not YA) is written by C. S. Pacat, who is non-binary, but is also TME and not mlm. These are all the big names in mlm lit, behind them is some gay men, but honestly their stories aren't preferred, they're not the right “flavor” for the consumers usually, who are largely women. In general YA consumers and authors are women, but I wish that they… just wrote about women too. I think there is a certain… snowball effect to the overrepresentation of mlm representing the whole LGBT community that leads to fetishization, as well as misogyny playing a factor in: less women characters being written well to write fanfic on, when they are written well they're taken less seriously or the audience struggles to relate to them, they're less marketable then men. 

Idk I never feel “seen” or “represented” by any of the books above, which don't address boyhood and manhood and queerness intersecting really, and AFTG doesn’t either. I relate to AFTG as a trauma victim who has experienced a lot of what many of the characters go through and have gone through in the EC as well as them just overall being very well written characters, but I don't relate to it as a mlm really. I've never seen like.. gay voice or being straight passing or femphobia or how boyhood can be affected from a young age by those around you sensing you're ‘other’ or if you didn't experience this you feel outside the mlm community. Let alone sub cultures like bear and leather and pup, at most you see the word “he's such a twink” in fandom which... i fr hate non mlm using that word because it's usually used to replace the f-slur essentially, used derogatorily or to call him “such a bottom” and stuff like that. It’s like a joke or an insult.

Long story short, idk mang this was a ramble and I think I'm coning down with something. I wanna see more queer women rep and women authors writing about being a queer woman too. I think it's a complex web of fetishization and a bit of forbidden love yaoi culture (or it used to be in the BOYXBOY days) as well as misogyny on an industry level, creator level, as well as reader/consumer and fandom level. I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to explore other peoples stories and what we read has to be segregated, “only mlm are allowed to read and write mlm, only wlw are allowed to read and write wlw,” but I also think author’s intent and audience and background is telling, as well as overall statistics. Like about an hour ago I was looking for cookbooks in spanish or in english, and I was looking for some mexican food cook books, but I had to look for them using words in spanish because otherwise what came up was a bunch of “fiesta party, easy as uno dos tres authentic cooking!” and I was like… hm. Since I could tell they were marketing to anglos. (also the author’s last names were like michelle smith, james cooper, and this could be for a variety of reasons, but I trust Hispanic names more tbh and deadass would look at the authors pictures and if they had other books in Spanish or what their specialties were.)

anyways. not sure how to end this. uhm if anyone has any book recs (my to read list is like 500 books tho no joke) preferably not YA white mlm written by a white lady, hopefully queer women written by queer woman, LMK, I need more wlw and queer women stories on my list. I have a decent amount but always looking for more. I kinda wanna link my goodreads or my storygraph but I also don't want to get doxxed and it has my legal name on it so.

Also, I'm dyslexic and using spell check but if there's like some wild typos my b.

[i-did]

Do you think trans Neil fics are just a way for people to enforce more heteronormativity into Andriels relationship? From what I’ve seen it just seems like an excuse for writers to feminise Neil more which is really harmful to trans male stereotypes. Not to mention the smut seems like an excuse to write about penis/vagina sex. Idk if I’m overthinking this but it’s the feeling I get and I’d appreciate someone else’s perspective on it

I think the fact that the vast majority of trans representation in fics is smut is pretty telling. I also am unfortunately nosey and back when I still read smut (I rarely do these days, it just makes me feel bad these days instead, haha) I would check out the author, and they were often women, presumably or openly cis since Fandom is an overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) AFAB space.

So far all the trans men I've personally spoken to have mentioned that they can't read any trans fics and actually actively avoid them.

NSFW LANGUAGE

There is also the discussion of language and misgendering of genitals in smut fics, as well as how differently the characters (who are being written as trans) become. Trans andrew fics are dominated by smut as well as writing him as a bottom and very sexual and ... okay I genuinely can't think of another word for this besides "cockslut" so sorry about the informality of language. But they wrote him as a cockslut, and same as neil. Trans men can be tops, and often are because of bottom dysphoria, and anal is still a thing trans men can enjoy, anyone can.

We have a pretty good idea how andrew and neil act during sexual acts together since we are shown andrew jerking neil off and andrew sucking neil off in the books. So when because they're afab they suddenly act very different during sex it can be... suspicious.

Its also important to discuss language used during smut fics as well as what is included and what isn't. Often chests are mentioned, not so often with top surgery in mind, and body hair isn't. Trans men on testosterone are very aware of their body hair and how it has changed, and usually proud of it. I think even a passing remark about how one of them (pre or post op) would have chest hair or a happy trail would be good to mention, when happy trails are often mentioned in cis smut but omitted in trans smut.

Also when having sex with a trans person (yes speaking from experience) it is best to openly and honestly discuss what they are comfortable with and what language they like. Consent is always important to be discussed and when/if your partner has dysphoria that is another element to be considered and discussed. Some trans women get dysphoric about anal, some don't, some trans men keep a shirt on some don't some people keep their socks on some people like some words that others don't. Its best to assume someone doesn't have a misgendering kink! Its not that common and all kinks should be discussed beforehand anyway. Dirty talk should also be discussed, what words are good to use vs not.

A lot of the language see in ftm trans smut (because there is next to no mtf trans smut) ((not that I think it would be much better but who knows I haven't read it)) refers to the genitals with dirty language associated with women (tits, pussy, cunt, etc) but doesn't mention the trans man's erection, in fact I haven't seen any mention T-cocks/T-dicks. Its also best to assume your partner doesn't like those words and use vague terms unless otherwise stated, using general words such as hole is still hot and also not misgendering their genitals. Some people do not see this as a form of misgendering, but not everyone does and the reason people I've talked to about this (and myself) don't read these fics is because the language makes them uncomfortable so we avoid it all together. (As well as the other problems discussed).

The fact that effects of testosterone are hardly mentioned makes me feel like these fics are more so existing for the often afab non mlm consumers of smut fics who use them as porn to get off to and increase their self insertablility. I'm honestly curious about this psychologically, I know some people don't realize they're trans until moments like this, but I also know fully confident cis and sometimes het women get off to gay porn.

Regardless, obviously writing trans neil is not problematic, and same as writing trans andrew fics. But its important to note how you or the author might have changed the characters canon personalities, presentation, reactions during sex and preferences during sex. And also why there is so much emphasis on sex, when people who are trans are trans not just during sex, but also... when they're not having sex, which is most of the time like everyone else. Its also important to note which one you choose to prefer being trans and why, I know a lot of non Americans who only use the word for binder as a chest binder and not a folder assumed neil was trans until it became apparent he wasn't written with the intention of so, but I've also seen people choose to have neil be trans because they think "trans men are just hotter" and if you're not a trans man,,,, maybe. Don't say that. Because that's fetishizing trans men.

END NSFW

Whatmack wrote a good fic where neil is trans and its not just a device for smut, in fact its not about his genitals and sex at all, its about WWI and is really good but mind warnings, its called "in flanders fields" i believe.

Also I'm told I'm an overthinker a lot but honestly? My mind is blank a lot of the time lmao. And then when its not blank I'm just... thinking. I don't think I'm an over thinker regardless of what others have told me lmao, I think they just don't realize how often I'm actually just vibing. Also "overthinking" can be good. Analyzing things and what they mean can be important and questioning stuff is also important. Obviously if you're getting anxious than overthinking isn't good and its overwhelming instead, but a little overthinking is good because some times I feel we under think things and don't analyze what they could mean.

When I have a reaction to something or an instinct idea about something I try to assess why. Do I hate Kora? Why? Do I think she's arrogant and unlikable? Or am I actually being misogynistic and potentially colorist against her, and if she were a white male character would i question her personality and actions as much as I do when she's a woc, much less be annoyed by them? (I love Kora, this is just an example lol)

Also sorry I keep answering these like always 3 am my time which means for a lot of you guys its even earlier in the morning, (whats up Australia, New Zealand, Europe, the Philippines, and other awake places)

[i-did]

1/ 4 oh it's funny you brought up the ace people thing bc i'm actually aro/ace so i can elucidate on it a little xD i don't currently write smut but i sure have read a lot of it. i think a lot of ace people find fic a safe way to like? satisfy their curiosity about sexual things without having to look at real people or even watch porn which (esp mainstream porn) can be a lot. and also to like.

2/4 idk when you don't get something but it's such a big part of what so many other people seem to find super important it makes you kinda want to figure it out? i guess? and also a lot of people have a libido even if they don’t experience attraction so that’s a thing too. 3/4 part of the reason m/m is so popular is bc it’s just like. been that way in fandom so long that it’s a habit, and i don’t think the percentage of people fetisizing m/m relationships is really as high as it’s made out to be (although it does still exist, more or less prominently in every fandom) 4/4 my closest friend is a trans dude and he identified as a lesbian for a very long time and he’d never written lesbian porn and one day he was like. “its bc im not a lesbian and i want to write about dudes bc i am one” and i think there are a lot of younger people who are still figuring stuff out which is why i try not to be too harsh on individual people. i do still think it’s important to critique and look at why broader fandom trends turn out the way they do. anyway sorry for sending you a barrage of asks i just get excited about fandom meta xD

-mild nsfw and pwp discussion-

Hey! Yeah no worries, my blog has been pretty quiet activity and ask wise until just now so I'm kind of surprised by the amount of asks I started getting literally over night, but yeah I dont mind getting them lol.

I think "habit" is an interesting word to use in regards to people whipping mlm over wlw, and probably a pretty accurate one. I think however that the percentage of people who are fetishizing mlm is higher than people realize, because from my point of view... i haven't really heard many people talk about it or take it seriously. I don't think its just fetishization, I think its also lack of well written women as well as the default in lgbt being gay man, but i also think the fact that well developed characters get flattened out and a heteronormative dynamic gets placed on them, and the abundance of pwp proves that there is definitely fetishization and people need to start to unlearn it in fandom imo. It makes it a very uncomfortable place to be for mlm otherwise.

Also I know a lot of similar stories to the one you're saying about your friend, trans guys who didn't know who they were, especially gay trans men feeling like they fetishize mlm when they don't they're 100% mlm too, and having room for exploration is important like you said. Your friend is a straight trans guy but the point still stands.

About the ace thing: yeah and I totally get that, I know someone who reads pwp of mlm because its unemotional unlike wlw pwp and as someone who is aro they want to not feel like theyre missing out and know whats up with sexual psychology.

I've heard of a lot of ace people reading pwp to "figure out what the deal is" but its interesting to me how many people look into pwp that would be outside of their demographic, aka cis women reading pwp mlm. I think its important to note that probably 97% of mlm pwp isn't written by mlm for mlm, and isn't actually accurate not only in the mlm gaze, but also functionality and how sex feels. Its porn. Porn exaggerates things, it makes things sound bigger and more extreme and extraordinary because it os inherently performative in a way to arouse the consumer. In had an ace friend tell me they were sad sex wasn't something that they could experience in pwp but, no one can lol. I mean there is more toned down realistic pwp, but the vast majority talks about full body feeling (which btw amab people experience orgasums localized while afab experience more full body)

I get the appeal to not want to look at real people but wanting to know, but why only read mlm if thats the case? Why not also wlw or wlm, etc.

Also its important to note it still isn't actually accurate in a lot of small ways beyond gaze, but also proper prep, health, sanitization, eating habits, body hair, positions, terminology, sensations, culture etc.

I've had someone state that if they wanted accuracy they would go out and actually sleep with someone, but still that person was a cis woman reading mlm pwp, and I think accuracy is important to a degree to prevent issues like fetishization, but also unrealistic expectations.

You stated that mainstream porn is a lot, and it is, but also so is pwp imo, especially as a mlm. The pwp tag in ant fandom is quite wild lol. Thats. Thats my 2 cents, its quite wild.

But yeah overall the best thing is to assume people don't have ill intent, they usually don't! But that doesn't mean that overall some people aren't also causing harm by doing such things like fetishizing mlm in fandom.

Cool asks lol wasn't expecting this everyones been chill so far thanks for the lack of anon hate and remember that the internet is a public space and to try to be respectful of others.