#unforth replies

[unforth]

Hello! Forgive me for the strange and invasive question I’m about to ask, but I noticed in your bio that you’re a mother and you seem to be a danmei fan as well, and my question pertains to that.

I’m in my mid 20s and enjoy danmei. I read 2ha before the published paperbacks came out and was pretty excited to be able to eventually own physical copies of the story i love so much. But I somehow end up feeling very self conscious about buying them, since they contain multiple explicit scenes and I’m worried if someone were to browse my bookshelf someday and come across these, they’d judge me harshly. I’m not sure if marriage is in the cards for me, but if/when I do end up getting married and having children, how exactly would I explain having these books to my husband and kid(s)? In my country, joint families are fairly common so I also might end up having to live with my husband’s parents and I’d be toast if they were to come across these 😬. I know it seems silly to be worried about a hypothetical future husband and children but I’m afraid I can’t help it. Since you have kids, how do you manage keeping your danmei novels? Do you hide them, or just tell them they’re books for adults?

Anon you sound like you've got some pretty incredible hang-ups about sex. Are you this worried about if my kids find the scene in MDZS where Wen Chao has to eat is own legs? Or if I allow your hypothetical, are you worried what your spouse and kids would think of that kind of content?

The 2ha books are books. I keep them with the books. I have a dedicated shelf for danmei in my bedroom, and they're there. My kids have seen me reading them and can access them anytime and have never given a single fuck or shown any interest whatsoever in what I'm reading, EXCEPT when I'm reading shounen manga and then they're excited. Oh or that time I read some Pokémon manga. And sometimes they're interested in the YA queer graphic novels I get from tbe library. Okay yeah if I'm reading comics they sometimes care. But a prose book? Zero fucks given. I tell them nothing, because they don't ask, but if they did ask, I'd tell them a simplified version of the truth, and I know my kids: zero fucks would continue to be given.

This whole "omg ~sex~" thing doesn't exist unless you as the adult make it exist. I don't act like there's some great mystery they're missing out on but will be ~initiated into the secrets of~ when they're older. That is the surest way to make them desperate to know things they're not ready for. They've had some age-appropriate sex-ed in the Our Whole Lives program offered at our church, and the one time I made the mistake of thinking my son knew more than he did (he knew sperm + egg = baby, so I assumed he knew penis inside vagina was the process. I assumed wrong.) his reaction was a hilarious, "they do WHAT?" and he has never brought it up again. The other day we read a book that included a joke about a teenage man being given a shirt that says "I make chicks hot" (he was going to work at a fast good joint, the joke was its about literal chicken) and my son looked me dead in the eye and said "that joke is NOT age appropriate." He's almost 9, so I told him puberty is coming whether he wants it to or not, and I'd rather he know these feelings exist before the first time they happen than be blindsided when they do (I didn't say, "if they do," I figure the nuances of my utterly asexual non-awakening aren't a detail he needs quite yet.)

All of which is to say, I find this ask utterly baffling and it honestly feels like a trap, but I'm trying to take it in good faith, and in good faith, anon, I'm telling you this:

If the hypothetical husband in your scenario would disapprove of what you're reading, then why the fuck is hypothetical you marrying him?

If the hypothetical kids in this scenario might find age-inappropriate materials, why aren't you worried about the violence? Or the horror parts? And why is hypothetical you telling the hypothetical kids anything at all about the books? Did they ask??? Or are you thinking hypothetical future you is so terrified of being caught with sexy books that you're the one bringing up adult stuff, unsolicited, to these kids? Cause THAT'S the weird thing to do. Going "and just so you know, kids, these books are for ADULTS" when they haven't paid any attention at all is going to create a problem where none exists. I'm not gonna pretend the kid doesn't exist who isn't more interested in what their parents read than mine are about my reading, and of course some kids will end up in traumatic situations that result in them knowing more than they normally would about these topics, and that's tragic that some kids have that happen. But in my experience of the kids I used to run into when I worked in schools, my own kids, their friends, etc., these kids have absolutely zero, zilch interest. When my kids ask what kinds of books I'm reading, I say books about men in ancient China. That leads to immediate negative interest cause it sounds dry and boring to them. Problem (no actual problem existed) solved.

You want to know what IS hard to talk about?

Warning them about predators.

When it's never once crossed their minds that anyone would have any interest in their private parts - because they're just a normal part of their body - having to explain that if a grown-up touches them in certain places, or asks to look at them naked, or tries to get them alone, etc., then they have to say no and find an adult they trust. When they were younger, explaining THAT was hard.

I'm not afraid of what my kids might find in a book. They're not interested, and even if they were, these books are above their literacy level right now (my son has nearly finished his first chapter book! It's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I'm very proud of him). And if they could somehow read a book this hard, and understand it, and accidentally read an age inappropriate part, and and and... well, then, we'd talk about it. I trust them to come to me if they run into media they're uncomfortable with, and I also check in periodically to open the door. And they have sometimes brought up concerns, and we talk about it, and that's that. The hardest right now to explain? What the alt-right pipeline might look like in a Minecraft YouTuber video. Fuck but that is HARD to communicate to kids who have only the vaguely idea of the current political situation.

Honestly I'm more worried they'll read the part where the demon mom eats her own child alive. That is the most triggering scene I've ever encountered in fiction. I've never read the whole chapter.

But you didn't even think of that. Because you're too busy thinking about how to tell your non-existent kids that these books have SEX and it's not for KIDS and they shouldn't read it.

Anon, I'm not afraid of what my kids might get exposed to in books.

I'm afraid of what real people might do to hurt my kids, and how I prepare them for actual trauma.

A book can't hurt them. Well, maybe if someone throws it at them. But if they read something that freaks them out they know to just. Stop reading. And they can ask us about it and we can help unpack it.

But preparing them for the harm actual humans can do to them? Explaining why we're at a BLM protest? Explaining why they have to be wary of any stranger OR NON-STRANGER (because most abuse is by someone the child knows!) who wants access to their body isn't okay? Having to wrap my head around "I don't think any of our relatives are sex abusers but IF they secretly are what language do I use to convey to my child that their aunt, uncle, cousin, grandparent, shouldn't have access to their body in certain ways but still can touch you to wipe poop off"? Trying to say "I know you like this person's minecraft persona but if they start saying mean things about a group of people different from them you have to stop watching and tell a grown-up"? Knowing there's no warning on the planet that can prepare them for all the actual harm that can come to them from real people? That's the hardest part of parenting. I can't protect them without smothering them. I have to let them face some risks or else they'll never develop. I hate this. It's so fucking hard.

Anyway.

That's the hard stuff anon.

You are entirely and utterly worried about the wrong problem.

If this was a good faith ask... you should sit and unpack why you are uniquely worried about the sex parts of 2ha and not the violence parts. You should ask yourself why you think you'd love and marry and raise a family with someone who'd disapprove of your taste in books. You should ask yourself why this is your hang-up, and why you think you'd have to say anything at all about the books to a person browsing your shelf, a spouse, an in-law, a kid.

If this wasn't a good faith ask...idk what you're fishing for, anon, but the fact that you think I'd say anything at all about the contents of a book they are absolutely not ready for is fucking weird. I will say something when they ask and not a moment before, and when they do ask I'll tell them honestly it's a book with a lot of violence and sex and adult stuff and if somehow that didn't drive them away (it would right now, instantly) then that'd suggest maybe they're ready to know more, and I'd steer them to more age-appropriate ways to learn a bit more about sex. There, the problem you made up is solved.

Good luck, anon. Whether this was good faith or not, you have a lot of mental baggage to sort through.

*

I just reread the ask in preparation for posting, and as a few final notes: 1. My wife (no husbands here) knows what I read, 2. My father lives with us, and he knows what I read, 3. My mother in law also knows what I read, and it makes her uncomfortable I think but she recognizes that's a "her" problem and leaves me alone, and 4. My mother is chomping at the bit to get her hands on my 2ha, she's been very disappointed that most of the danmei she's borrowed post MDZS and SVSSS hasn't been more "like that." So don't assume your in-laws will flip out. Most people know books are just books. But I also don't know your culture/country/situation. I was raised by incredibly progressive people in one of the most socially progressive cities in the world (New York City, we have race problems but in other areas we're not bad), and like. My entire cultural surroundings are chill about stuff. I'm also not Christian. Obviously in another culture with stricter mores I can see why this could be more of an issue but you asked how I handle it and I can only give an honest answer from the actual reality I live in, which is that it never has crossed my mind anyone would care and sure enough, no one has cared. 🤷 I'm sorry if that's led me to be dismissive of legitimate concerns, it's very hard to know what anons on tumblr are well intentioned and which are from people who are just waiting to go HA THAT EVIL PERSON PUTS THE NAUGHTY DIRTY BAD PORN WHERE THE KIDS CAN GET IT. Considering that people have been sending me asks recently that my son should die, or that he will grow up to be a rapist because that's what men do, because my post that maybe people shouldn't hate men has brought enough attention that the fucking weirdos think lashing out at an 8 year old is an entirely normal and reasonable response to "stop virulently hating men just because they are men," I hope you can understand why my tone is what it is and why I have to consider that this ask is not being sent in good faith. Those anons I block and delete unanswered, so me writing this response is already giving you some benefit of the doubt.

Regardless. Work on you first, anon. You deserve people who will love you even knowing that sometimes you read kinky shit, and do not under any circumstances tell your kids, should you have them, a word more than they need to know. If they're very precocious early readers MAYBE move the books, but otherwise odds are they won't be able to even read the back blurbs, much less the inside, until they're old enough to know a little about how life works, and you can frame what you tell them to what they know then.

Alright, I'll shut up now.

[duckprintspress]

Sorry for being a little in the dark, but can you explain what happened with NaNoWriMo? Or at least point me towards some resources pls?

Hey anon!

Never apologize for that. Life is so fucking busy, no one can be apprised of everything going on all the time. Our brains would break even trying. Anyway, multiple things have happened with NaNoWriMo, but for the current debacle, the best answer is probably to read their own words as appended in a reblog to my original post about how to delete.

The TL:DR is, to paraphrase NaNo's own words (after they got a sponsorship from ProWritingAid, an "AI" company), they support using "AI" as part of NaNoWriMo, accusing people who disagree of being ableist and classist.

Having read both their statements, they at least imply that they mean "AI" such as grammar checkers, rather than generative "AI," but they don't actually clarify and it's at best ambiguous if they include generative LLM as being allowed and reasonable. When people got upset with them, they doubled down, saying things like "not everyone can afford an editor," which as someone who personally couldn't afford an editor and so taught myself to edit at a professional level over ten years, I'll own I find a fucking insane and insulting take. A lot of us worked our asses off to learn these skills, and it's not classist to suggest that other people...can learn too. But also...like...if I was certain they only meant grammar checkers, I might be a bit more forgiving (I mean, I use Word's grammar checker, though it's often wrong), but which LLM usages they're actually defending isn't clarified and they jump right to defending their position by tarring people who disagree with them as -isms, and that's some kinda bs argument right there.

To be clear, I think policies banning people from using LLMs in events like NaNoWriMo or on platforms like AO3 is an exercise in futility. Bans are unenforceable, and attempts to moderate will turn into harassment tools. The line between "work written by someone who isn't proficient yet" and "LLM" isn't clear, and policing that line would consume huge amounts of moderating effort for basically no benefit. IMO, for places like AO3 the best bet is simply transparency, as in, people using LLMs should fucking tag it.

To be clear secondarily, putting my "I own a small Press" hat, if someone sends us something verifiably LLM-generated, they will be permanently banned, but honestly, even something I can't verify as LLM-generated, like. Won't be good writing. It might be technically precise but an LLM can't generate a coherent story because it can't think or remember. It's just a word-probability engine. We've never had an LLM-generated submission to the best of my knowledge, but if we did, well. Ban hammer.

Anyway. Sorry. I got off topic. The point is, NaNo basically said we were all ableist and classist because we want people to write (even if they write badly!) for the...write a novel challenge.

And this made a lot of people very angry.

[destielficarchive]

I was in the middle of reading a fic called Castiel: The King of Hell by Wrightish on AO3. I still had the page open but couldn't download it since it was deleted! Here is the link I have:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/60725947/chapters/155900596#workskin

And here is the full work link I got from the Wayback:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/60725947?view_full_work=true

My problem is that it was completed at 36 chapters, but the full work link on the wayback archive capture was from before it was completed at 32 chapters. Is there any way to get the full fic?

I was left on a cliffhanger and panicked when I realized it was deleted between Feb 8th and 12th! 😭

I would be eternally grateful if you could help me so I can finish reading it!

Hey!

Ack, sorry I didn't reply for so long, I haven't been logging in from desktop so I didn't even know I had the ask.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the 36-chapter version of this work, and if it's not on Wayback, there's probably not much to be done unless we can luck into someone who is reading this having a copy.

I'm posting it - fingers crossed!!!

-unforth

[tykartreblogs]

It's been a while since I last said how much I appreciate all the work you do, so it's high time: thank you, every art you bring to my dash brightens my day. Here's a little Wen Kexing to give you my love

Omg thank you?! 😭 this is the first time anyone has sent me art for doing these blogs. 😭😭😭 and it's so adorable aaaaah 😭😭😭😭😭

[tgcfartreblogs]

thank you for your service, tgc fart reblogs.

[svsssartreblogs]

Hi there, I really enjoy getting to see so much svsss art reblogged, but with the (very popular recently) skincreatuee trend, is it possible you can tag the art containing them as #skincreature?

Sure, I can try to do that going forward. I'll use the version with a space (skin creature) instead of as one word.

Note that I haven't even had time to queue stuff the last few days, much less to go through the queue and tag things already queued or go through the blog and tag things already posted, I'm just so stinking busy I can't, I'm sorry, so those things will be as-is, but as I queue new things, I can add it to newly queued items.

[cnovelartreblogs]

with tumblr dying, do you know of any open discord communities for danmei and cnovels?

Hey hey!

The only public fandom server I'm part of for Chinese media (...virtually the only public fandom server I'm in at all, and my personal main hang-out spot on Discord...) is @merinnan et al's Daomu Biji server.

It's the nicest, chillest, most welcoming public fandom server I've ever been in - not that we haven't had our moments of drama, but they've been rare, and I've always felt comfortable there - and I've made a lot of friends too. That said, if you're not into DMBJ and/or as obsessed with Zhu Yilong as I am, I can't imagine it'd be a great fit.

Also, so - I'm @unforth, and my day job is that I own and operate an indie micropress, Duck Prints Press, that publishes original work by fanartists and fanauthors. As part of that, I and the staff involved with that run a "Book Lover's" Discord server. While it's sort of a combo "about the Press" and "about all queer books" and "about whatever we feel like talking about" server, we do end up talking about danmei a fair amount because multiple of the people involved in the Press, including obviously me, are into that kind of thing. Like we do a weekly chat on Wednesday about what we're reading and yesterday's was like, "here's one mlm YA book! here's a thriller in Dutch! here's the Yuri manga I just read! And here are the eighteen bajillion things we're all currently reading on Bilibili oh and I started Poyun." You're certainly welcome to join us. What we talk about there really boils down to what the people who are there want to talk about, ya know?

About a million years ago, I started building a cnovelartreblogs Discord server myself, but I've been so frackin busy the last couple years that I've never managed to finish setting it up the way I'd like. That said, it's got penciled in rules and channels for some of the more popular cnovel fandoms (mostly danmei, tho there is a Please Don't Laugh section). If I could get help moderating it, I could open it.

I just really don't have the ability to do it myself anymore, my days right now are like:

wake up

scroll tumblr and do upkeep on the art side blogs (while sitting with my kids and helping them get ready for the day) (1.5 hrs or so)

study Chinese (while sitting with my kids and helping them get ready for the day (.5 hrs, tho I wish it was more, if I can manage more than 30 minutes then I can actually try reading a real damn book but I only have the time maybe once or twice a month)

work (7 to 8 hours on weekdays, often more on the weekends, bonus if my kids are around and my wife is at work, such as tomorrow)

try to be a good mom (all the hours)

errands, chores, kid after school activities, etc. (1 to 3 hours a day)

read while snuggling kids on the couch and trying to ignore the tv (an hour if I'm lucky)

sleep (8ish hours, I hope)

there's just no wiggle room left for me to do any extra fandom stuff right now, sigh.

(sorry to whine about that part. it's not relevant. I just got my covid booster yesterday and I feel terrible today so I'm feeling sorry for myself. it's truly not a bad life overall I'm just perpetually exhausted)

[mdzsartreblogs]

hi thank you for reblogging the batxian art!!!!! i wanted to bring to your attention that the tags are wrong. he is a bat, not a bird :) if you dont mind changing it! 🩷😇

Okay so this is the world's dumbest answer but that's a quirk of how I ended up tagging bats specifically.

See, I didn't want to make a bat-specific tag (there's not a ton of bat art, and having "microlabels" can make it harder for people to find things instead of easier).

I also don't have a "mammal" tag.

And, on the MDZS sideblog, I do have a "winged (character)" tag I could use, but this issue first came up on the TGCF sideblog when an artist did some art of Yin Yu as a bat, and on the TGCF sideblog, I DON'T have a "winged (character)" tag.

So I either had to make a new tag just for bats, make an overarching tag and deal with the bajillion not-bat mammals that I'd then have to tag with mammal and whatever their tag was, use ONLY a creature tag knowing that doing so would decrease visibility/findability...or...well...

So I looked at the tags I DID have, and I ultimately decided it made sense to file them under bird, even though I know bats aren't birds, since that's "most similar" among the existing tags I have.

I know it's idiotic. I cringe every time I do it. I should probably just stop.

But, for whatever it's worth, it's idiotic and it's wrong but it was intentional, lmao.

I've always been afraid an artist would notice and go "Wtf" at me over this, or even just assume I don't know that bats aren't birds. I do! I do know that! I couldn't think of a good solution so I went with a bad one instead! I'm not even defending it, I know it's ridiculous. 🤣🤣

-unforth

[unforth]

i don't know if you are still into 2ha? but what would you say if someone asked you what makes 2ha stand out? It's full of tropes that have been done before and there is nothing new. it's full of cliches according to some people. So, what makes it stand out?

I am still into 2ha, I'd consider it one of my top fandoms right now.

I'll own I find this whole ask rather odd? It implies that novelty is a. possible and b. what I'm looking for in a book.

For a... Name me a book that isn't full or tropes, name me a book that isn't full of "nothing new," name me a book that isn't full of cliches. Enjoyable books aren't ~original~, and imo original is a myth. It's about how the ideas are strung together, not about them being fresh and different and new.

For b... look. I'm almost 42 years old. I've been reading a ton since I was 8. I've read a l.o.t. over the years. And I've come to learn the things I love in characters and books.

Give me a main character (or, in 2ha, BOTH main characters) who thinks they're worthless and will give everything they have to save an innocent stranger. Give me archetypes of self-sacrifice and martyrdom and low self-esteem and adoration and obsession cooked so deep into their bones that it extends over multiple life times. Give me that adoration reciprocated but the pining, oh, it is mutual for these idiots who should be and will be lovers. I'll eat that up every time. Give me someone who thinks they're unlovable but loves the world anyway, and give me someone who loves them so much they'll tolerate the claws.

Give me epic length I can sink my teeth into. Make the plot sprawling, the side characters lush, the world developed. It's okay if some parts drag a little, it's hard to keep momentum over an epic, and one person's "that dragged" is another's "that rocked." Anyway, the slow bits makes the more exciting parts that much more thrilling.

Give me whump, and hurt/comfort, and pain that burns the soul. Make the characters deep and compelling and then confront them with nothing but bad choices, force them to pick... and then see them pick each other, everytime, even in the midst of the darkest night imaginable. Give me unreliable narrators and angst and characters with nobility that shines like the sun even when they're covered in shit.

I adored this kind of story when I was 12 and I started the Wheel of Time and fell in love with Rand al'Thor, and I adore this kind of story now, in Tian Guan Ci Fu and The Husky and His White Cat Shizun and Modu. The patterns in the kinds of books I enjoy most, the ones that make me feral and obsessed, are very consistent, and being Old means I know what those patterns are and I can seek out books that have them, and recognize them when I find them again. It's happening with the book I'm reading now, in fact, and I can feel the feral obsession growling in delight in my brain, lmao.

Ya know how some people go into fanfiction because they love a character and want to see iterations of them over and over a little to the left? Well, that's why I started fanfic, and through fic I found a genre of original fiction that does that for me. I want similar character archetypes in endless iterations of stories, and danmei gives that to me, and that's why I'm up to my nose in danmei fandoms, and why the specific ones I like best are my favorites.

What stands out about 2ha, for me, is that it fits my taste in character archetypes and plot type. If someone out there shares that taste, they'll probably also love it. If they don't share that taste, they may not, but they may, because it's a complex enough book to cater to more than just one specific type of taste. Someone who likes OP control fantasies will also probably like it, for example. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, and that's not a bad thing. Stories that appeal to everyone tend to be shallow and not attract deep obsession, having sacrificed the depth to draw a wider audience.

Anyway, anon...you phrased this like an anti. 80% of your ask is trashing the book on false premises about tropes and cliches. I genuinely can't tell if this is meant as a troll or if it's sincere, but I've answered as if it's sincere. But regardless, you'll be a lot happier as a reader if you forget originality. Books aren't original. Find an author, genre, series, whatever, that fits your taste, and frolic there. That's the route to happy reading.

I've found mine. I hope you find yours.

[duckprintspress]

Who are your favourite Disney duck characters?

Consolidating this and your other duck-related ask, which was "Do you like duck tales?"

My favorite Disney duck character is Darkwing Duck! I loved that show when I was a kid. I do also like DuckTales, but I've never seen the new one. I am Old, the version of DuckTales I've seen was the Disney Afternoon one from the late 80s/early 90s. I used to rush home every day so I could watch the Disney Afternoon!

[destielficarchive]

Is there a pdf or epub something for “the cheapest room in the house” destiel fic?? Thx

yep, I've got a pdf of it. I can send it to people if I have the e-mail address (DMs are the best way to contact me with that info).

[unforth]

awww thank you so much for thinking of me! <3

the under-praised backbone of any fandom:

fan wiki editors

fan wiki editors who move the wiki off of fandom.com and to an independent host, especially

transcript writers

image description writers

fic rec list curators

translators

everyone who archives an ephemeral ARG or website-based lore dump

everyone who archives and preserves related media in general, for that matter

[tgcfartreblogs]

do you queue your posts ? or is it random

This blog, and the other artreblog side blogs, operate on a 7-day queue. As in, however many posts are in the queue, I divide that by 7, and I set the posting rate to ensure the queue will last a week.

The exception is things I signal boost, like fandom events. Those I reblog when I see them, which is why they tend to cluster at roughly the same time each day - that's the time of day when I do my check through the fandom tags and queue things.

-unforth

[svsssartreblogs]

lol at that other person who sent you the anon ask with the mpreg bingqiu thing. it kinda sounds like they were mid-conversation? did they mean to send that to someone else?

out there there's a blog currently making posts about mpreg bingqiu that just received an ask thanking them for regularly reblogging all the SV art or something and wondering wtf that anon is talking about xD

lmaoooooo that would be amazing and hilarious.

my assumption/guess is that it was in response to some piece of artwork I reblogged??? but idek.

[cnovelartreblogs]

I partially blame you for the sudden and infinite urge to read everything at once /pos

tbh I end up doing it to myself, too, I'll spot some piece of art for a c-novel fandom I'm not familiar with it, and look into it, and then it's like "well damn there's ANOTHER book for the TBR..."

there's not enough hours in the day, istg. :D

[unforth]

thank you for thinking of me. you're absolutely right. I do this every day. I've seen things.

thousand-mile stare toward the camera

people who go through the main tags of big and tumultuous fandoms looking for new fresh good posts to reblog are essential to any circle. they’re like true hunter gatherers leaving the safety of settlement and braving the unknown wilderness to find food for the flock. they risk their lives every day and will come back with a few scratches at best and severe psychological damage at worst