#well ok its a bit more complicated than that but thats a spoiler haha

[avemstella]

A deal with the devil....

this scene from chapter 23 I was soooo excited to write. God I love writing unhinged Loge

[fluxedbuds]

okay, as someone who made it through half a chapter of that and all of yoglabs...*looks at trap spider door*...what is the similarity. //;;// <--(that's the trapdoor spider. that's you.)

HAHA YES

Major spoilers for Shadows House under the cut! Like, the entire fuckin plot spoilers! Sorry!

Alright, to preface, I've only watched the anime so far, and likely won't be reading the manga because Spoilers For Next Season, but as far as I can tell the lore is generally the same- the order things are dropped and the fine details get switched around to better fit a show vs a comic, but other than that it seems pretty faithful to the manga.

That out of the way! THESE BITCHES BE CLONIN'

The most obvious, aka the shallowest, connection is the whole doubles thing. Two of them. Clones. Yoglabs. Ok, we good there?

NOW is the more juicy stuff. Having a single shadowy figure in control of everything is just a staple of plots in general, but of particular note is how Mr Lord Old Man is stated to be the one who created every character we see in the series. And, to make it better, he's lying. And it's an obvious lie to anyone who would happen to have both the knowledge of the Shadows House and the outside world- hence, they are kept STRICTLY separate.

Additionally, this is partially maintained through, well, just straight up puppeting half the cast involved. Interestingly, it doesn't seem to work on shadows the same as it works on 'living dolls'- the originals vs the clones. Or, well. Ok it gets complicated even more so than cloning lets not touch that bit here The other way it's maintained is by having everyone running a constant social rat race to be the one that gets on top, the one that doesn't get discarded- whatever that means. Kind of a surprise nobody's tried a Rosencrantz on the old bastard yet, really.. Of course, none of them except Mr Old Bitch himself actually have any, yknow, rights. Or freedom. But let's not worry about that, shall we?

Another thing is just straight up pillaging the nearby towns for victims, something I imagine Yoglabs employed quite often in the early years. And then acting like they're supposed to be grateful, and also giving everyone black lung, which also just seems like something Yoglabs would do just maybe not on purpose

EDIT: WAIT IF ORGOT THEY HAVE A ‘DONT WORRY ABOUT IT’ TOO THATS VERY IMPORTANT. Dolls mustn’t fret over trivial matters! except it absolutely does not work but its still unsettling as a mantra

but! but but but, you want to know the real kicker? the real motherload in this little show? The shit that sent me over the edge?

Guess how the components for that aforementioned brainwashing gets delivered.

MOTHER

FUCKING

C O F F E E

[luckypastryarcade]

Ok, so I will discuss the art first and then proceed to.... opinions. More Sleepless Domain fanart, this time of the best character to ever grace the comic, Sally Fintan. Her dress is more complicated than Cassidys, and also seems different depending on which part in the strip its obtained from, so I just did my best there. I think I got her impressive eyebrows pretty well, her sharp teeth a bit less so but hey everyone starts somewhere. As an aside I do love that sharp teeth trope, and shes the only one so far in the comic who had them. In retrospect I don’t really like her left hand fist but did a finger gun to homage the power beams that some of her other team members pull off.

Now, before I get into these “hot” takes because haha fire pun, I will lay down a series of points I get are true but I still feel the argument stands. 

One, Cube is obviously a great storyteller and in no way am I saying I know better or things should be changed.

Two, Ultimately this is a story concerning teens and people who are not yet at full emotional/intellectual maturity. Even adults fuck up all the time but expecting perfect decision making from characters in this age bracket isn’t a defendable position. 

Three, Spoilers but Sally is dead making her at this point a static entity.Its easy for me to say she is the perfect angry fire gremlin because at this point she isnt going to have any character development that might make me change that opinion where as there are others that as the readers learn more, have more points of which to judge.

Now to get down to it. I re read the first couple of chapters to get some reference pictures, and something struck me. Sally was goddamn correct, Tessa is a disaster as a leader and should have never been. On face value the original team falls into five man band tropes pretty easily. Tessa is the leader, Sally lancer, Undine is the heart, Gwen the strong guy and Sylvia the Smart guy. Despite her power and willingness to bark orders though Tessa doesn’t really lead in any meaningful way. 

Its interesting that in a team rife with team attacks both shown and implied, Tessa is not a part of any of them. When challenged on her superiority complex there is no denial just a fine do it on your own then. Sally wanted equality in the group and Tessa leaves them to their fate rather than address any of her own issues. Obviously it was the interference of The Purple One that did the actual killing, but the negligence is what allowed the scenario to happen in the first place.

Going into speculation zone a bit farther. Sally is overconfident and emotional yes, but I think part of it stems from the fact she didn’t see herself in equal footing to the others. Like they could pseudo fly (or just fly). to me it comes across as she kind of wanted to just fit in. Shes got a rivalry thing going on with Sylvia, she and Gwen seemed to get along though Gwen seems to have the emotional availability of a rock, and Undine seemed to be one of the few to get her but in early Undine fashion was just too passive about it.

A good leader, hell a good friend would maybe able to lend a compassionate ear to some of these grievances, but as gets demonstrated repeatedly later in the comic, Tessa is good at cutting and running.Why be wrong when you can be gone?

I swear this seemed longer when I started it, but I dunno I kind of lost steam. Anyway Sally was correct, I hold out slim hope for some sort of miracle like I dunno pheonix fire resurrection or some such, she and the rest of team alchemical deserved better. Tessa can go sulk to pieces in a hole, Sleepless Domain is a really great webcomic and thats about it for now.

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

Persona Problems: Apathy Syndrome, Mental Shutdowns, and Reverse Cases

Sooooo uhhh I can’t sleep so might as well ramble about this.

Comparing and contrasting the 3, ranting on why Mental Shutdowns are called Mental Shutdowns and why it’s stupid, and trying to fix PTS’ Reverse Cases.

An issue I’ve had with P5 tbh (I think I’ve talked about this before), but while thinking about it I realized that......my own idea of fixing P:TS’ Reverse Cases instead....made me realized some complications (I mean the complication was there to begin with but I’ll get to that). 

Anyway I’ll save Reverse Cases for last since I’m sure most of you are only here for P3/5. 8U

So one thing that bothered me in P5 is.....the fact they call Mental Shutdowns well...Mental Shutdowns. I mean because....it’s just Apathy Syndrome (or at least, how it’s called by the public, “Mass Lethargy Syndrome, which we find out in P4D, as a similar case is happening there).

Well let me explain what each one basically is.

Apathy Syndrome. is basically when a person’s shadow goes on vacation in P3, and Nyx/Full Moon bosses be giving out those vacation tickets like Oprah when well....the Full moon comes around. 8U I mean technically the person’s shadow gets “eaten” by a Dark Hour Shadow (and yes it’s their shadow, MegaTen says “psyche” but it’s clarified more that by psyche they mean shadow). Basically, while there are technicalities in HOW the shadow isn’t in the person’s body, the fact remains it happens because the shadow is not in the body. As for what happens to the person, they usually go into a coma/vegetative state and will die without medical help.

Mass Lethargy Syndrome: 

Now let’s look at Mental Shutdowns. It happens when a Shadow Self is killed.....ok.....so basically that means the Shadow is not there anymore. The Shadow is not in the body. Basically the same exact thing as Apathy Syndrome. What happens to the body? Same exact thing as Apathy Syndrome, they go into coma/vegetative state and will die without medical help. I mean sometimes they’ll die right on the spot for no good reason(ok maybe not RIGHT on the spot, stupid delay reaction Okumura....fudging things up), but of the 3/4 we saw, we know 2/3 (dunno if I should count train guy, but Wakabe and Kobayashi def count) died because they fell in traffic and not by whatever Okumura conveniently got. Also this doesn’t count Ichiko’s friend who was just in a coma, so it seems Okumura’s reaction is.....VERY rare. Btw fun fact, in P3′s 1st movie, something similar happens at a train station that mirrors Wakabe/Kobayashi, someone gets Apathy syndrome and falls in front of a train (I know it’s the movie, but the game DOES say there was a delay and the movie spells it out for us it’s cause of a body on the train tracks so.....there might be some weight to the movie). 

Now PTS....I’m....I’m mostly gonna focus on Reverse Cases, I mean this anime has Apathy Syndrome but I don’t recall it (or I didn’t get that far into it), and the wiki states it’s when a Persona is taken or destroyed, while Reverse Cases (as well as Kagenuki) specifically mention Shadows....and I dunno it could be P:TS being weird again and not knowing how the relationship between Personas/Shadows work, but then again Kagenuki was used so that people could tell if that person has a strong shadow and thus strong Persona and....basically I don’t think the creators through it through or the wiki is missing some info. ANYWAY, Reverse Cases are similar, it’s where a Shadow is forcibly taken by another Persona user for a certain goal of summoning something more powerful by gathering those Personas (if any of you Arena/Ultimax fans feel like you might’ve heard something like this before yeah I think they repurposed P:TS’s thing), and when that happens the person is turned inside out! Whoops! Well that’s a bit different, but hey same concept, shadow leaving the body (THAT BEING SAID it’s understandable why it’s called something different, the outcome is different compared to AS and MS). (btw Kagenuki is where you pull a Shadow/Persona out but it’s used to relieve stress or some BS, it’s temporary and....it’s kinda more like you are forcing someone to summon their Persona rather than take it....unless you are discount Strega aka Marebito then they are trying to actually take it).

Fun Fact: P2IS I believe is the first place that showcases Apathy Syndrome (or whatever we wanna call all 3/4 of these things), as the character Yukino experience similar symptoms when her Shadow Self commits suicide. P2IS didn’t have a name for it but....just a fun fact. 8U

Anyway before I pick apart P:TS’ mess, lemme get back to P5. Why the fudge do they call it something different? Like I GET MS’ process is a little different, but the outcome is pretty much identical, esp to the public....who are the one’s naming the phenomenon. Like us the players know it’s different, one is caused by the Dark Hour and is temporary, the other is caused by Goro being an asshole and it seems like this one is a bit more permanent....BUT THE PUBLIC DOESN’T KNOW THAT! To them it should be “Apathy Syndrome/Mass Lethargy Syndrome has returned and a new phenomenon ‘Psychotic Breakdowns’ has emerged!” you could possibly connect them due to both showing up at around the same time, but calling AS something different? No, to the public it’s pretty much the same, people are becoming vegetables and we dunno how to help them. In all honesty, just because the way shadows are leaving people’s bodies are a bit different, I don’t think it warrants a new name...in fact I think it can be confusing “Wait isn’t it basically the same thing? How/why is it called something different?” it just raises unneeded questions. And no you can’t make the argument that ‘maybe AS wasn’t well known’ because 1) it’s mentioned later in P4D (and I think even in Arena), albeit by a different but similar sounding title and 2) even a small town like Inaba’s murder mystery was still being alluded to in P5 about 5ish years later in-game....and Iwatodai is a city and it was being talked about on the news A LOT.....so no it’s not a small town/city thing.

But...”Well why aren’t you complaining about P4D’s re-name?” Probably cause the rumor of knowing the cause of MLS vs AS/MS. MLS is associated with the cursed video, while AS/MS are unknown to the public..... Or maybe AS was just known as MLS to the mass public or it’s a phenomenon where a bunch of people fall to AS, I need to replay P4D tbh if there are additional details I’m missing, but the fact remains that, to the public, MLS has a possible root cause while the other two do not so it’s possible to let that slide....tho it brings up the fact MS should either be called AS or MLS.... Esp because there’s also the fact that P4D is probably taking place in Tokyo (P3/4/4D basically just call it “the city,” but I think it’s heavily hinted to be Tokyo, heck a quick google search lead me to a LMB festival look alike, aka Tokyo Idol Festival so....yeah 8U). Which makes it even more jarring for P5 since WE KNOW it takes place in Tokyo so why are they using two names for the same thing??? It’s like.....calling the Chicken Pox something like “Polly Pocket Pox,” same symptoms, we just feel like calling it something totally random and new now for no reason even tho it’s literally the exact same thing in everyone’s eyes. 8U 

Anyway end rant on P5′s annoying alt naming, now for P:TS.

So.....Reverse Cases are a bit of a mess....both in the show (damn it be bloody) and.....lore wise (not new to P:TS bless its soul....haha soul....pun not intended). Lore wise it doesn’t make sense. I mean P3/4D/5′s way of doing it we basically have different ways of doing X1+A/B/C but we still get the same Y (basically X+A=Y, X+B=Y, and X+C=Y for P3/4D/5 respectively, X=a shadow leaving, A/B/C=the different forms aka Full Moon/Cursed Video/Goro-murders). RC is different, it’s end result is different even if say.....it’s the same as P5 (P5 involve another human harming another Person’s shadow so yeah). So with PTS, instead of X+C=Y, it’s now X+C=Z (Shadow leaving+basically stealing and absorbing the shadow=a person explodes).....so with PT X+C≠Y.....and that’s.....that’s some problems. Because PTS equates the shadow leaving with the person exploding (we’re ignoring AS in this universe cause....we don’t need more problems).

So....to fix it.....I originally thought “maybe add one more thing to the equation!” Have it be X+C+D=Z. With D= maybe the shadow goes berserk before it’s eaten and that’s how the person is exploded. Kinda similar to how Personas can turn on their user in P3 and strangle them....or in P4 the Shadow Selves....do something that kills them. I mean they both try to kill their hosts and seem to do different things to get the job done, and how they do it could result in a different outcome (P3 it’s strangulation tho not sure if traceable, P4 it’s unknown, PTS it’s explosion). There fix right? Nope.......I realized, thanks to P4 esp....there’s an issue....And this exists with how RCs already operate not just my fix it tweak. The issue is that.....once the person is killed, the shadow self (and by extension the Persona) disappears with it.... 

“Ok how is that bad?” Well the point of the RC are that the Marebito are gathering Shadows(/Personas) to make themselves stronger (and so that what’s his face can summon something, keeping it vague for spoilers but hey already dropped a spoiler so whatevs). But.....as soon as the Person explodes that Shadow should cease to exist. Rendering everything moot.

Which means we need to change PTS again, and we can do it a few ways thankfully! I mean you might have to rewrite PTS for some of the options but.....like it already needs rewrites so klnvkds;vna Anyway here’s what we can do:

No RCs! Instead it’s just Apathy Syndrome a new wave. What ain’t broke don’t fix it. Personas/Shadows are still stolen, but we just keep the symptoms as AS and just call it AS (or MLS, I’m down for either)

Might be an issue with getting the police involved, so either with the revamp have Shadow Ops be involved 

Or make it so the police think AS in PTS has a different patter compared to P3′s so they think it might be a group or some BS.

Keep the RC, but don’t make it about stealing shadows/personas to make something stronger or summon something. Instead just make it about a (or a group of) serial killer(s)! 

Either they just use their Persona to explode people

Or they utilize the Kagenuki to draw out the shadow self to do it for them!. 

Use both 1 and 2, by which I mean I guess pull a P5 (aka have two going at the same time like P5 has with Mental Shutdowns and Psychotic Breakdowns, and RC could be the reason the police get involved), AS is when they steal the shadow, RC is when they wanna kill a person without the weird as time delay MS has at times. 

I feel like I had more to say but it’s late and.....I think I’ll just end it here. 8V