#which I presume are the Second Who Came in Celestia lol

[reginrokkr]

𝐂𝐗𝐈𝐕. The second apocalypse, Fortuna and the Neohuman Project.

On the second Apocalypse.

It's important to describe what exactly makes an apocalypse be considered such and not described by other name (like cataclysm) if both are events harmful to Teyvat itself and the living beings that inhabit it. For this, I will make a comparison between Phanes' arrival to Teyvat and the Second Who Came + Nibelung descent with forbidden knowledge.

In the former, although it's unquestionable that the war waged between Phanes and whoever fought alongside him (if any), and the Dragon Sovereigns must've scarred Teyvat one way or another (we know from Sapientia Oramasdis II about the consequences it would take if Apep passed away by releasing all the Dendro energy within it as well as we know that some dragons perished in the combat be it during the first, the second fight when Nibelung brought forbidden knowledge and the Second Who Came arrived or in both, which must've led to consequences on a planetary level), it isn't stated to be in a relevant way worth mentioning. Here, the outcome was clear: the winner would inherit the right to reshape the world, whereas the loser would be subdued. Such was the dynamic between Phanes as the former and the Sovereign Dragons as the latter, and so Teyvat was recreated which caused it more hospitable for the soon-to-be created humans after that.

In the latter, however, it's different. Not only the fact that Nibelung, in all his wish to dethrone Phanes and the Saints, brought forbidden knowledge worsened matters both to himself, his fellow dragons and everything else— but the Second Who Came's presence as well made it so that the entirety of Teyvat as a planet was endangered and it ran the risk of being dying. Not the living beings that inhabit it alone, but the world in itself too. Among the consequences that have been stated, it's known that: forests turned into sand in Sumeru, there was an immense flood that drowned the unified civilization (Enkanomiya fell into an extraplanar conjunction point between the Human, Light and Void realms) and a breakthrough of the plague brought to this world (presumably Abyss energy-related). In order to mend this, Phanes dropped sapphire nails to prevent the world from crumbling so these would purify the land, thus destroying adjacent civilization as an undesired side-effect to his determination to protect Teyvat. Because of the importance of events that befell and what nearly caused to the world, this historical event would be more accurate to point as an apocalypse versus the former discord.

Given everything we've learned about the Cataclysm, even if one could argue that its relevance and what it caused to the world was negative and harmful (which it was), it wasn't on the same level as the apocalypse.

Although it has been teased before that in Snezhnaya it's known that the world will face a new Long Night (or at least among the Fatui, Harbingers and the Tsaritsa) and in René's notes that a catastrophe must be avoided at all costs, this patch of Fontaine shed more light onto what that means: the coming of a second apocalypse. An apocalypse described as a world where no more flowers will grow, a disaster defined for seeing a pool of blood past one's ankles, a world in which after a few hundred years, all birthing waters will dry up and after that, the world will be devoid of light with destroyed civilizations and a shattered sky that can be seen via two methods: through the Book of Revealing or the Looking Glass.

Whatever will lead Teyvat to this state remains unknown, but the Abyss Order's intentions are tellers of an outcome for the world far from desirable given their determination to plunge the whole world to darkness and overthrow Celestia with the power of the Abyss. In essence, the Abyss Order may not be any different than Celestia is due to their determination to potentially change the threads of fate in a similar fashion as there seems to be a divine control over fate that not all gods have access (the Archons) for their own purposes. Even if forbidden knowledge has been erased, there is still a latent star-devouring darkness that endangers Teyvat. Tsaritsa's involvement alongside her Fatui and Harbingers may also lead to undesirable consequences that could lead the world to its downfall, or Celestia's awakening and action may assist in that as well. Perhaps it's all three deeds at once.

This second apocalypse has been prophesied by René de Petrichor and Jakob Ingold, which is not an unlikely thing to happen. A relatively recent element, the Sign of Apaosha, is said to reflect the Abyss and corrupt the land around it (the sign), and it's believed to be a reflection of the "reality" beyond Teyvat's skies. Given that as per René's notes it's known that research on the Abyss [energy] was being conducted as well as other future research that I'll mention briefly, it's not impossible to have witnessed a catastrophe to come. Moreover, according to the Book of Revealing written by René, it's implied that other ancient civilizations might've been aware of this fact (at least the one of the Nameless City or underground palace in the depths of the Chasm, given that these ruins are displayed in the prophetic vision of the future).

On Fortuna.

Fortuna [that which happens without design, remarkable occurrence] (or world-formula, as termed by René) is described as the phenomenon that takes place when a civilization is destroyed and a new one is born from its ashes. Besides prophesying a second apocalypse to come in centuries (since 400 years ago), calculations made in regards of this subject reflect the outcome that no new civilizations will be born unless new variables are introduced "from outside the system". This would increase the magnitude of this catastrophe bound to come.

On the Neohuman Project.

This is the chosen variable by René de Petrichor in order to face the incoming crisis, or better said, ensure humanity's survival in the context that this apocalypse will take place no matter what, hence Teyvat will become an inhospitable world incompatible with life. Starting first with himself and then with Jakob Ingold, René's discoveries led him to learn that the composition of their bodies (changed as a result of these experiments) are closer to that of the Abyss and the Khvarena, paradoxical as it may be. Their bodies don't need nourishment like normal humans do and they possess terrifying self-recovery properties (fact-checked by extirpating ingrown organs close to vocal chords [albeit not for this purpose] and watching them regrow in a matter of few days) and in order to grow stronger, these bodies are nourished with the blood of fell beasts of the Abyss (Elynas in Jakob's case, albeit it was discovered that the Crimson Agate of Dragonspine and Elynas' blood share the same properties). In the present day, Jakob, in the body of an adult human, has been seen taking the form of an Iniquitous Baptist.

This project is seen as a manner of human transcendence in order to adapt to the hostile world that Teyvat will become if the prophecy becomes true. When the neohuman project proved to be difficult and a failure on a new experiment, a new variable has been introduced. Experiments were conducted in more humans and, albeit anti-intellectual and counter-intuitive, it's presumed that in order to transcend one's physical form and personality must be shed and lost and thus a gestalt where memories and other human souls are merged together similar to the principle of merging Oceanids into one by returning to the primordial waters. Ancients (presumably those of the Nameless City) have been already successful in this in the past. René, as the first subject in more modern times (400 years ago), was successful and he was able to see the memories of those human subjects that took part in this project.

[rayofsunas]

Hey so regarding inazuma and Baal I have some head cannons and your my favorite writer so I thought I’d just dump them all here.

Insazuma is the nation of eternity right? And Baal is basically the second archon after the original one died off somewhere presumably 500 years ago during the destruction of khaenri'ah.

The vision hunt decree was created for the Perdue of “eternity” and subsequently the people who’s visions were taken lost all their ambition. You get where I’m going here? Maybe Baal isn’t acting out of greed, but are justificing her actions to protect her people? The people of khaenri'ah had ambitions greater than anyone in that world could comprehend; they lived withought the guidance of a God, sought knowledge well beyond their limits and created destructive machines capable of “tilling” an enter battle field. Already we can see a shift in the archons perspective towards celestial- venti stated outright that he doesn’t like celestial, and Zhongli not only retired from his role as an archon but placed several meticulously planned tests to gouge his nations strength and stability in the face of a destructive god. Both nations, in a way, are becoming more similar to khaenri'ah in that they are both Godless, independent, and free from omnipotent influences.

Here’s my theory; The Goddess Baal, before inheriting the title of Archon, had witnessed the massacre and destruction of the khaenri'ah people and in order to prevent her nation from suffering the same fate she had launched the vision hunt decree to remove the people’s ambitions before it consumes them. She has witnessed the power of celestia, and in order to avoid the same fate she has made it her goal to separate Inazume from khaenri'ah in all forms and that’s why she continues on her role as archon instead of watching from the sides like venti or Zhongli.

Another thing, a small spoiler warning for those who haven’t finished the quest

I think people who are emotionless used to be the most emotional and heartfelt kind of individuals. Ayaka describes the Raiden Shogun as a cold and emotionless being, akin to a manager or something (I can’t remember her exact words) and I think that’s because Baal had been planning the decree for a long time now and had to steel her resolve knowing the impact it would have on the common folk. In her mind, what she is doing is better for the lo run and is necessary for the survival of her people.

This is just a theory, I haven’t finished the quest myself but it’s been weighing on me for quite sometime now. Anyways, I hope you have a wonderful day!

SPOILERS + be prepared for my declarations rambles.

YOU’RE SO SMART, AND YOU'VE SPURRED ON MY LOCKED AWAY THEORIES THANKS. and I thought similarly, though now that you mention it, baal behaving selfishly seems like she could be protecting her people. after all, the vision hunt decree only happened recently (I think months to a year before the traveler’s arrival in mondstadt), so something shifted dramatically between the archons and celestial for baal to do that in the first place.

me and my friends chat about theories like this all the time on discord and everything you said makes so much sense! I also thought zhongli stepping away from his role as an archon was not just his way of freeing himself, but his way of seeing how his people would fair without a god (this is legit confirmed i think); and they’ve done just fine, proving to celestia that they’re wrong in believing nations and people need a ruling governing body, like an archon. but I feel like baal is still just selfish, even if she’s doing this to protect her citizens, my gut is just telling me she could be both selfish and also be doing this to protect her people.

but about the archons; my friends and I have tied the archons to tons of real life lore and myths, and something that keeps popping up with all the archons is different types of religion and beliefs; we found out that they each represent or are similar to the seven princes of hell (and there’s something about them coming up in demonology a crap ton too, and the similarities are a bit too similar... PAIMON IS MENTIONED TOO AS A KING OF HELL IN DEMONOLOGY LORE AND THAT'S NOT VERY CUTE.... I HAVE SO MANY THEORIES FOR PAIMON YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW!). but I think the archons are like 50/50 bad and good (like they’ve done bad things willingly or not before the travelers arrival aka destruction of khaenri’ah) but celestia is the main antagonist, I’m 100% positive of that.

the hydro archon is said to know not to make an enemy of celestia/the divine, so I feel if any of the gods were to back celestia, it would be the hydro archon. but, this leads me to my first question; what in the world does celestia think about the gnosis’ being taken? I’m gonna assume they may care a little less about venti and zhongli because they’ve basically retired, but the other archons? they’re still active and actively represent celestia, so I’m curious to know what celestia would do when baal’s is taken (we know that she’s the next target, because one of the tsaritsa’s goals is to take them all). will baal be punished since she’s still an active ruling archon, or not? something is telling me she will, but who knows...

and this may sound obvious, but i think the archons represent celestia’s own ideals, although over time with the change of archons and maybe shifted opinions in celestia, said archons have changed and now their actions contradict what their title is, I think the reason behind that is because they’re the original and last reigning archons over their respective nations, but the others? they represent ideals, and some of their actions or just people interfering (harbingers talking the gnosis') have contradicted what they stand for entirely.

for example,

venti (ideal is freedom): his is so ironically obvious, but his gnosis was taken from him, against his will; there's nothing free about that. and he also retired from being an archon, and because of that went into hiding, also nothing free about that either; yet he represents freedom. you see what i'm trying to say? lol.

zhongli (ideal is contracts): nothing for him because i don't know much, but i think it's funny how he represents contracts, which are usually very tedious and there's a lot of depth in them, and he just gave his gnosis up so easily and willlingly (even if he has his reasons) by creating a contract like ???? it's funny to me.

baal (ideal is eternity): I haven’t started the archon quest yet for her, but I know she says she is the most eternal of all and sees herself as everlasting, but she’s legit younger than a good few of the archons (venti and zhongli so far!). I also think the original archons ideal was eternity and that’s what they had hoped for their people, but after the fall of khaenri’ah, war, and their death, baal came into power and realized it would be a threat to celestia if the people believe in eternity (like I said, something shifted severely after the war, because a lot of the original archons died or disappeared and their ideals almost became shrewd and a thing of the past with the new ones who took their places) therefore creating the vision hunt decree to get rid of visions; with more people coming into contact with visions, or maybe even when they realized humanity would be fine without an archon ruling over them, war would break out again and this time celestia would be the target. speaking of targets, this is random, but there’s an overwhelming presence of military surrounding/in inazuma and maybe that’s not just to collect visions and because war broke out amongst the people there, but it’s for protection against celestia and the harbingers (I think the other archons know about venti and zhongli's gnosis' being taken, so they're all weary). if baal were to overthrow celestia or betray them somehow, I’m sure since she’s an active archon they would retaliate.

the dendro archon (ideal is wisdom): the dendro archon is way more obvious, as dainsleif says he’s less than wise, but that’s his ideal... he’s also the youngest, so that’s another contradicting fact; young people are often called unwise.

the hydro archon (ideal is justice): I know nothing about her, but she represents justice. I don’t have a solid explanation for her, but based off of theories and if for a moment we assume celestia is the main antagonist, she is said to be afraid of celestia but seemingly backs them by not leaving like venti and zhongli... considering what they’ve done, I’d say she can’t possibly represent the ideal of justice correctly if what had happened to khaenri’ah was far from just, especially since the archons and celestia were behind it but her ideal is justice?

murata (ideal is war): I have no idea about her at all either, there's not much... but considering vanessa was able to pass into celestia when she died and she's considered the children of murata, I think we'll get more info on celestia then too, and more about khaenri'ah, since she's the god of war. she's gonna have the DEETS I tell you!!

the tsaritsa (ideal is unknown): nothing contradicting for now! she is a bit confusing because of how little info we have, but I have reason to believe she's against celestia, hence her taking the gnosis'. for now, until confirmed, I think her ideal or rather goal is to get rid of celestia. i don't think she has a gnosis or vision tbh, maybe the archon before her did and she's assumed to have one as well or maybe it even got taken away... but, i think that's one of the reasons she's created delusions, they're said to be a lot more dangerous and powerful (i think) than visions too. there's also this thing I found out about the gnosis' being designed after chess pieces, and how although there are 7 archons, there are only 6 chess pieces (pawn, rook, bishop, knight, queen, and king)... meaning one of the archons (not venti or zhongli, because we know what their gnosis' look like) has a gnosis that isn't designed after a chess piece... or in my words, doesn't have one at all. aka the tsaritsa... I think the tsaritsa not having a gnosis fits too snugly with her actions so far. and don't get me wrong! if we assume she doesn't have a gnosis, I don't think she's retaliating because of that, i think she just wants to change or get rid of celestia entirely. like this makes perfect sense because the tsaritsa is the only active archon seemingly and openly going against celestia's ideals, whatever they may be...

and about me saying the archons are "evil" or in the wrong for what happened to khaenri'ah (even if they were forced by celestia), in the archaic petra set, ZHONGLI IS SAID TO HAVE BEEN AN EMOTIONLESS AND MERCILESS GOD WHEN HE SLAUGHTERED COUNTLESS OTHER GODS DURING THE ARCON WAR, in order to fulfill a contract of sorts. this is why I think there were ulterior motives during the war and although yes, for now, it seems the archons were forced into complying during the war, I really think they had some willingness too.

at the end of my ted talk I have come to the conclusion that we can't trust the archons until we know more or celestia like... ever AND I STAND WITH THE REGULAR DEGULAR PEOPLE!!!

[reginrokkr]

𝐗𝐗𝐈𝐈𝐈. Old World talk and reweaving fate— Ragnarök.

Now that I got some sleep, I’m in a better headspace to expand a little bit in what I screeching about earlier (lol) + some reactions / speculations on my part:

     ✦ Starting from near the end, I was really excited at the mention of the “Old World”. This is because I’m 99,9% that it makes reference to the world that used to be before the Second Who Came’s arrival when everything used to be one same civilization of humans created by Phanes.

     ✧ On a similar vein, it makes me wonder if Pierro’s words were meant to allude to the possibility of La Signora being revived in said Old World or it’s just a way to say that her work didn’t go to waste as they would’ve achieved what they’re aiming for.

    ✦ Very interesting the premise that this won’t end with just a “checkmate” which might or might not reference the possibility that having the Gnoses in their possession isn’t enough, that they might have to use their advantage over the gods after seizing their authority for their scope which seems to bring back this era that existed before. Whether it is towards the future via Ragnarök to begin with an empty slate with those strong who survive it or rewinding time back remains to be seen.

    ✧ Related directly to the latter point, I can’t help but think again about Dain’s involvement in the possibility of reweaving all fate which I presume to be via Irminsul. Fate has been a strong thematic in this game tainted with unfairness for the most part, so even the slightest chance that Dain would be able to have a hand in something this big excites me big time. Also, it’s curious the thought that Irminsul (presumably) is also addressed to as the Tree of Time. Would love to see how this fate reweaving works.

   ✦ Have you seen that ruin machine butler??? It’d be pretty humorous if those were a thing back in the heydays of Khaenri’ah.

   ✧ If the Old World prospect turns out to be the way I think it is, it makes me wonder why Pierro was rejected as a Khaenri’ahn sage when in reality he did have something important to offer to the country. Judging by his artifact, it seems that he had some wisdom in relation to the veil of sin and what would piss Celestia off. So this leads me to think that perhaps the ruler he talks about was tainted by this whirlwind of negative emotions that, if the resentment feelings towards those who live on the surface of some of the created abyssal beasts are anything to go by, could be a reflection of just that and that they were lost beyond saving.           ↳ Not sure if Pierro left after being rejected, but I love the idea that maybe Dain and he met and he was warned of what might happen if things continued the way they are. And that Dain maybe had faith that these negative feelings wouldn’t eat at perhaps a big chunk of the society and not fall into it as I highly doubt that he wasn’t aware of the bad of Khaenri’ah at the time. Not holding such a relevant position within the army and in view of how sharp he is.

  ✦ Also purely speculative, but what if the Harbingers’ deeds are so over the top without measuring the consequences that they lead to because if they succeed in bringing the Old World back, none of it would really matter? That gives me some food for thought ngl 🤔