#would love to write that scene but no idea how vale would defend himself because as I said I have no idea how this man's brain works

[kingofthering]

@moonshynecybin I was about to send you an ask but then it got long and tumblr was all about characters limit and whatever, so, making this a text post.

I was having thoughts about the insanity that must be going on inside of Marc's brain in the forced to come out AU and then I saw your "last Rosquez sex pre-Sepang" ask and it gave me even more thoughts.

In my head, Marc is unable to have meaningless or hate sex meanwhile Valentino can go for it easily (or so he thinks until our protagonist meets Marc, anyway) so obviously, Valentino is the one who guides them into sleeping together again in 2016 (can't decide if it's as early as the tests or if maybe Barcelona makes his last reserve break or something but— details). And if he promised himself in October of 2015, that this was the last time he was having sex with Marc, but then he lets them be together again and that leads them to being caught? Well, I am not an expert in Valentino & guilt but that sure is something interesting to consider.

Do I believe that Valentino is agreeing to the fake dating plan out of guilt? Maybe just a tiny bit. For the most part it's because he cares about Marc and can't stand to see him go through this alone/in the worst way possible (not that he can recognize that at the beginning, of course, but you know).

I loved that you mentioned the idea of Yamaha telling Valentino he could deal with this alone/didn't have to go with the plan with Marc (and it would of course be easier for him). There is a part of me that wants to push things and say the photos identify Marc very clearly but like, there could be ~reasonable doubts about Vale (not to take things too far and make him too much of a "hero" here but, that's an option, I guess).

Anyway, back to what this was originally supposed to be about : Marc's brain. All considerings, things went like this :

the man he idolized all his life became his friend and then they started having sex and Marc thought they at least were friends and understood each other in the fields that mattered to him

same man betrayed him in front of the whole world and basically called him a dangerous rider that he doesn't want to share tracks with him [and obviously this leads to all the backlash Marc had to go through but I think what stung the most, at the end of the day, was the realization that Valentino thought of him like that]

at the end of the day, I don't think Marc is one to hold grudges [or I am projecting my own self here, my bad] and if Valentino comes up to him and wants him in some kind of way? of course Marc is going to take what he can have, even if he quickly realizes Valentino is not open to the two of them talking

Valentino agreeing to the two of them fake dating? it makes absolutely zero sense, there is a part of Marc that sees this as a sign of hope and it's bad because the last time Marc hoped they had a good thing going on, Valentino destroyed him in public without any kind of warning

"Risk Management is new to the Marc Marquez system" is a quote that I absolutely adore and that he let out into the world in 2023 but I can see home boy showing some kind of self-preservation in this scenario [and Marc initially struggling to be close to Vale (like you showed so well in your short post) is part Marc not being a good actor/feeling uncomfortable demonstrating PDA in public and part Marc trying to protect himself from his own feelings for Vale] [is Marc aware of the extent of his feelings? of course not, but still]

also, like, let's be real, this is the whole fantasy Marc never really allowed himself to think about and to "live" it in those conditions? yeah, not exactly easy on the heart and brain

I have no idea where I was going with all that but in any case, I know they have a fight one day where Valentino is like "Marc, you need to put in more efforts" and "I'm doing this for you" [he didn't mean for those words to come out but oops] and that has Marc calling him out on his hypocrisy.

On a very unrelated note, I'm very curious about when they have sex again in this AU (or even when they kiss, will have to think about that).

[weirwoodking]

hi i was wondering if you would be interested in making a meta on the differences between show!sansa and book!sansa bc i know they changed a lot of her storyline but i don't understand why everyone hates on sophie turner? it can be short or inexistent meta if you're not up to it but i would be very interested to know what you have to say

I mean, the differences between the two are pretty simple. After season 4, D&D decided to cut Sansa’s book storyline, and replaced it with their own rewrite. This affected the plots of multiple characters, particularly Show!Theon’s and Show!Jon’s, but most of all, Show!Sansa’s, obviously. George himself has spoken on how much he hated what the show did with Sansa. He said in 2014 that he had “no idea what they were doing with Sansa or where they’re taking her storyline.”

I could go episode by episode and point out everything that’s wrong or is out of character, but it’s kind of useless. The show did not adapt books 4 & 5, it’s as simple as that, everything is different and feels like it’s out of character. For the first 4 seasons, I thought that Sansa’s story was handled fine (I haven’t watched GOT seasons 1-4 in over 4 years, so my memory is a bit foggy on the specifics tho). Sophie Turner isn’t exactly how I picture Sansa to look, but her acting was fantastic, especially for someone so young and for her first television role.

I personally haven’t seen people “hating on Sophie Turner”, but I’m not involved in the GOT side of tumblr, only the ASOIAF side, so I don’t see people talk about the actors that much. I do know that there are people in fandom (not just in the GOT fandom but in fandom in general) who will conflate actors with their characters. I have seen some toxic Show!Sansa stans do this with Show!Dany and Emilia Clarke (mostly last year). It seems to be more of a problem with female characters and actresses (‘cause sexism), and I think it’s really creepy and disturbing. Sophie Turner is not Sansa, so if anyone is “hating on her” because they didn’t like how the show changed Sansa’s story, that’s really fucked up. I don’t know much about the GOT cast, actually, I rarely watched interviews or behind-the-scenes videos. I don’t know if Sophie Turner has said that she likes the show’s ending or something like that, so if that was the case I could see people being critical of her opinion. But even if she did like the ending of the show and the way the writers changed her character after season 4, I still don’t think you should hate on an actor for that. Because the actors didn’t make the show, the showrunners did. It’s not on the actors to get everything right about their characters, it’s on the writers and directors to tell them the story and guide them through their acting. I don’t blame the actors for anything about GOT (no one should), I blame the writers.

What I find is the biggest problem about post-season 4 Sansa is how little regard they had for her character, while simultaneously claiming she was their favorite. I believe their exact quote was “Sansa was the character we cared about more than anyone”. Okay… then why did you cut her storyline? I feel like their whole “she’s our favorite character” act was more to try to defend against the criticism of the cutting of her storyline. What bothers me most is how they just casually threw her into the Ramsay plotline without thinking at all about what that meant. If you’re going to have one of the main characters of the show get serially raped, you need to think about what you’re doing and how to handle that horrific situation. In the books, the Jeyne Poole storyline is handled very carefully. The acts committed by Ramsay against Jeyne and Theon are never really shown, only implied, alluded to, or very briefly described. The show, on the other hand, explicitly showed Theon’s torture scenes, and made Ramsay a much bigger character in seasons 5 & 6 than he is in the books. I feel like they just used him for shock value, because so much of Game of Thrones revolved around shock value and in-the-moment reactions. I think they just saw Ramsay as a character they could turn into Joffrey 2.0, which is why they put Sansa with him. They didn’t care to follow Sansa’s book arc, they just wanted to continue the whole “caged-bird” thing with her, for shock value.

And to deflect against criticism, that’s why they made her so smart and powerful in the final few seasons. There’s next-to-no build up, no character development, no focus on her growth, the show just tells us that Sansa is the smartest character, and the audience is expected to agree. Because D&D did not care about showing her development. There’s a line in season 7, when Sansa and Arya kill Littlefinger, where Sansa says “thank you for all of your lessons, Lord Baelish.” And that immediately stuck out to me, because that sounds like something Book!Sansa would say. The show cut out Sansa’s Vale storyline, where she spends much more time with Littlefinger, and so… what “lessons” is Show!Sansa referring to here? They didn’t spend a lot of time together in the show. I do think that Sansa will defeat Littlefinger in the books, so that line makes sense for Book!Sansa.

What they did was cut Sansa’s storyline, throw her into a horrific situation that they used for shock value, and then expected to be praised when they made her a “girlboss” later on. They basically said “hey, we know we essentially erased this character’s arc and development, but at least we did a feminism, right?” And that’s what really pisses me off. The blatant disregard for female characters, then saying “no, we do care about them! Believe us!”

Lindsay Ellis has a really good video called “Woke Disney” that touches on this. Basically, she talks about how Disney’s recent live action remakes tend to make each of the princesses a “#girlboss” in a very corporate, fake-feminist manner that is very easy to see right through. (I recommend just watching the video, she goes more in-depth into the subject.)

A similar thing occurred with GOT (the show only had one female writer after season 4, by the way, who was a staff writer for season 8. And before that, only 4 episodes were written by a woman). D&D wrote a lot of problematic, misogynistic, homophobic, and racist things. Then they tried to cover that up with (to use a line from Ms. Ellis) a coat of #girlboss paint. For example, I remember after s8e3 (when Arya killed the Night King) came out, that was when the big criticism for season 8 really started. People saw how bad the writing of that episode was, and how ridiculous and anti-climactic it all felt. However, when people criticized the manner in which the Night King was killed (i.e. saying that it would have made more narrative sense for Jon to do it instead of Arya), there was another group of people who called that criticism sexist. “That’s sexist! You’re just upset that a girl did it instead of a guy!” Which… ugh... do I need to explain how idiotic that line of reasoning is?

And that’s kind of how the HBO show tried to get away with its misogyny, not just the misogyny of Dany’s ending, but of the whole show in general. “Look, we can’t be misogynistic, we had Arya kill the Night King! Look, we can’t be misogynistic, we had Sansa become a #girlboss!” Bullshit, you’re just trying to hide your sexism and bad writing behind a facade of fake feminism.

… *sigh* ...

Anyway, nothing but love for Book!Sansa, and nothing but hate for the writers of Game of Thrones. I hate how the show turned Sansa into a very polarizing character, when she shouldn’t be. None of the child characters of ASOIAF should be polarizing, they’re children for fucks sake.

I’m very excited to see where GRRM takes Sansa’s character in TWOW, I feel like she’s got an awesome journey coming up (hopefully involving her discovering her skinchanging powers, taking down Littlefinger, and heading north for home). 

Uh, wow, this got really long… and I’m exhausted after thinking about the sh*w that much. Here, as a treat for reading all the way down to the bottom, have a Sansa WIP drawing that I haven’t finished yet:

[where-theres-smoak-2]

GOT 8X06 REVIEW

So this was it, the very last episode of Game of Thrones ever and I was amazed and shocked... at how much they managed to f*ck it all up. I know alot of viewers were already upset with season 8 but up until this point I mostly enjoyed it. However this last episode... well underwhelmed doesn’t really cut it but its the best I can come up with at the moment. If I could sum up this episode in 4 words it would be what was the point?  But anyway as there are spoilers I’m going to stick the rest under the cut so if you want to read on if you don’t that’s cool too lol. 

Bran the Broken 

So I’m going to start with the thing that bothered me the most. Bran is the King makes no sense at all. Like I get that Game of Thrones is suppose to subvert expectations and do the unexpected and be shocking and all that. But there is a difference between having a surprising twist and doing something that just doesn’t make sense at all. By all means shock me, surprise me but for the love of all the gods old and new please make sure it has some kind of logic within the story. Bran has spent the last 2 or so seasons going on about how he can’t be Lord of Winterfell or Lord of anything because he is the Three Eyed Raven now but I’m suppose to believe he can be King like what?! If he can’t be Lord of Winterfell and the Three Eyed Raven both then he sure has hell shouldn’t be able to be King and the Three Eyed Raven it makes no sense at all. 

Also I’m sorry but I half cracked up when Tyrion said the next Ruler should be someone with a great story and then chose Bran because in my opinion he had the least interesting story out of any of the remaining characters there. It was so uninteresting that 1) they cut him out completely for a whole season because all he was doing was sitting in a tree talking to an old guy and 2) Tyrion had to remind us what Bran’s story was and big it up for it to make sense. Like yes he survived a fall from a window then travelled beyond the wall and became the Three Eyed Raven as Tyrion said he was told he’d never walk again so he learnt to fly and yes his powers are interesting (if only they had explored them more). I’m not trying to take those accomplishments away from him. But when you compare it to others that have the potential to be the next ruler Bran’s is hardly the most exciting story. I mean Arya escaped King’s Landing, travelled with Gendry and Hot Pie, served as Tywin’s cup bearer all the while without him knowing he had Arya Stark right within his grasp, joined up with the Brotherhood without Banners, travelled with the Hound and went from hating him to learning from him to having affection for him, went to Braavos and became a faceless assasin, crossed numerous people of her list, came back to Westeros and killed the Frey’s, returned to Winterfell and helped take down Littlefinger, fought against the Army of the Dead, Killed the Night King then witnessed and survived the Sacking of Kings Landing. Sansa suffered under the Lannisters yet survived them, escaped to the Eyrie, learnt how to play the game from both Littlefinger and Cersei, married Bolton then escaped and got to the wall, helped rally the north behind Jon and gained the support of the Vale which led to the victory at the Battle of the Bastards, fed her rapist to his own dogs, ruled the North in a Jon’s absence and outsmarted Littlefinger. She had one of the most dramatic and well written character developments on the show. She went from a whiny little girl who had silly dreams of being a princess and a queen to a strong leader and badass Queen in her own right. Jon joined the Night’s Watch, travelled beyond the wall, infiltrated the wildlings, defended the wall against 100,000 wildlings with only 100 men, became Commander of the Night’s Watch, Fought at Hardhome and killed a Whitewalker, created peace between the Wildlings and the rest of the Kingdom, talked the wildlings into fighting with them for winterfell, became King in the North, brought together the greatest army the world had ever seen consisting of northmen, wildlings, the vale, Dany’s forces of the Dothraki, the Unsullied and two Dragons. Found out he was a targaryen prince, marched agaisnt Kings Landing to dethrone Cersei, Killed the mad Queen Daenerys. Hell even Gendry had a better story with starting out as a bastard son of a King, going on the run from the Lannisters, his adventures with Arya, being taken by the Red Woman, having his blood used in a ritual that took out 3 kings, escaping and hiding out right under the noses of those who had tried to kill him, travelling beyond the wall with Jon and fighting against the dead army, returning to winterfell and making all the weapons for the long night, fighting against the AOTD during the long night and then being legitimised. And yet I’m suppose to believe that Bran has the best story because he fell out the window then became a birdman. Sorry but not buying it; if you wanted me to buy it you should have spent some more time on his story.   

I know I’m ranting and being harsh but its frustrating because if it had been written properly then it could have worked. I get the idea behind the whole a great story is a powerful thing, its true people love a good story, a good story can inspire people to do great things. A great story can make a person immortal and live on through history. So I agree with Tyrion the next ruler should have a great story but they didn’t spend enough time on Bran’s for it to make sense for him to be the one chosen. The moment the writers were told Bran was the one they should have moved him more to the forefront. They didn’t need to have him as the main focus as such but at least have him a little more involved. Show his powers, more of his skills, show him in a position of leadership. I mean Bran hasn’t shown any skills that would suggest he’d be a good king or leader. He’s become too detached from people and most of the time it seems like he just doesn’t really care about anything. But my main issue that I just keep coming back to is that line about not being able to be lord of anything because he was the Three Eyed Raven. Like I get they didn’t want to give too many hints away that it was going to be Bran but they could’ve changed that line slightly and said something like I can’t be Lord of Winterfell I have a greater destiny to fulfill now. It’s vague enough that most would probably assume he was talking about being the Three Eyed Raven and they wouldn’t have betrayed and contradicted their own writing when a couple of seasons later he becomes King it would have been more of a oh so that’s what he meant when he said that moment. Instead it just felt like they weren’t sure who was going to be king so they just pulled a name out of the hat and it happened to be Bran. They might as well have made Pod king for all the sense it made. 

The final thing that bothered me about it was the title they gave him Bran the Broken. I mean really? They could have gone with Bran the Wise or Bran the All Seeing or Bran the Seer or even Bran the Raven. But no lets not focus on the gifts that allow him to see all or the wisdom that he has gained, the things that would make him a worthwhile leader no lets focus on him being in a wheelchair. I don’t know but something about that bothered me, it just didn’t seem right. 

The Council

Ok I’m not opposing the council as a concept I do think that having a council like that is a good idea. But the scene just didn’t seem to work for me. First off it did not seem at all realistic to me that when Tyrion said they needed to vote on a Ruler nobody other than Edmure Tully put themselves forward. Like really that’s not really in line with the characters. I thought it would be more like the election of the Commander for the Night’s Watch where you have a few candidates put forward and they all discuss who would be best, you know Davos could have put forward Gendry and talked about how he’s Robert’s son and knows the common folk, Lord Royce could’ve put forward Robin and tried to come up with something that would make him sound good, Arya could have put forward Sansa and then Tyrion Bran. But instead all these powerful Lords and Ladies just stared blankly at each other until one option was put forward to them. At least if more candidates had been put forward there would have been more interest and intrigue in the scene an element of ooh whose it gonna be. Instead it was just boring. 

Also and this isn’t really that important and is probably me being a petty b*tch but when Tyrion said ‘you’re the most powerful people in Westeros’ I did have a moment of really these guys are. Like Edmure Tully who spent all of his time either making a fool of himself or as a prisoner, Robin Arryn who was a spoilt little brat and did literally nothing but be others pawn and hide in the Eyrie, a Prince I’ve never seen before, two Lords I’ve never seen before, Yara who yes has some power and is usually pretty badass but lets be honest she spent the last 5 episodes hiding at the Iron Islands, Sam who at this point wasn’t really in any position of power, Davos who again doesn’t technically hold any position of power and as much as I love him Gendry whose been a lord for about a month and doesn’t know how to use a fork. These are the people who are deciding who gets to be the new Ruler. I was just sitting there thinking where were all these people when the Night King was attacking or when they were trying to overthrow Cersei the Tyrant. I mean I appreciate Yara’s loyalty to Dany now that she’s dead but where was she when Dany needed her forces to take Kings Landing hiding on the Iron Islands. I mean if we needed anymore signs that Westeros had gone to hell it was the realisation that these were the most powerful people in Westeros. It’s not the character’s faults its the bad writing but I feel like this scene would have had more of an impact if I actually cared about the people who were there. Which other than the Starks, Tyrion, Sam and Davos and Gendry I didn’t really know any of them let alone care about them. 

It Should Have Been Epic

See the thing is this was the final episode it should have been the biggest, most tense, exciting episode ever, I should have been on the edge of my seat the entire time. Instead I was bored. I got to the end of it and just thought nothing happened. It didn’t necessarily need a big battle but it needed more tension. It started out good with Tyrion, Jon, Davos and Arya walking through the city and us seeing all the Dothraki and Unsullied gathered. All of that was good it had tension and that anticipation of what’s going to happen that Game of Thrones is so good at. Then... well the best way I can describe it is that for me it seemed like between the scene where Jon kills Dany  and the meeting of the council in the Dragonpit there was a huge chunk of the episode missing. I almost felt like there should have been another episode in between those two moments. I mean Sansa mentions that there are thousands of Northmen at the city walls, well great I’d have liked to have seen that. Show me Sansa getting the news about Dany burning the city, Jon killing her and how the Unsullied now have both Tyrion and Jon captive. I made a prediction post where I said Sansa would hear about Tyrion’s arrest and march the Northmen south to demand his release and the thing is I was kinda right only two differences between my prediction and the show was 1) It was both Tyrion and Jon she marched the army down for and 2) We never actually got to see it we just got told about it. But I wanted to see it, I wanted to see her call the banners. I wanted to see her give a speech to her men getting them riled up and inspired ready to march down south and free their King. I wanted to see Sansa and Arya join up and discuss what they were going to do, for Arya to travel to Storms End and get Gendry’s support and for him to bring his men too, for Sansa to stop at the Vale on the way down and get Robin’s support and at River Run for her Uncle, I wanted to see her army get bigger and bigger as they travelled further South. I wanted to see the men arrive at the walls of Kings Landing and have it completely surrounded, to see the Unsullied on top of the walls looking down and to feel that tension. To see Grey Worm reacting to Jon killing Dany and arresting him, To see him reach out to Yara and the Prince of Dorne who had offered their support of Dany originally to come and avenge her once the Northern forces arrived, I wanted to see the Iron Fleet and the Dornishmen arrive and for the tension to grow with two sides forming those who want Jon and Tyrion free and those who want them punished for betraying Dany. I wanted to be shown Jon and Tyrion in their cells slowly losing hope and see the effect of what they had done, to see that it was playing on their minds that guilt and sorrow and hopelessness growing as time passed. I wanted to see the Starks then treaty for peace and bring the Council together and for them all to agree to sit on the council and give Jon and Tyrion a fair trail. We’d have got to the same place in that dragonpit but it would have been ten times more exciting and nerve wracking because you would have spent the episode wondering if it was going to come to a battle, whether Jon and Tyrion would make it out ok and still be wondering who would end up on the throne. It would have been Game of Thrones at its finest with a good mix of tension and action and political games. It also would have had the advantage of us getting to know those characters that were at the Council a little, maybe not much but it would have been better than what we got. 

But instead of them showing us all this happening we were just told and instead we got lots of images of people talking and walking and rearranging chairs. It was almost like the writers wrote 5 episodes carefully planning everything out and then ran out of steam by the 6th one, like they had ran a maratheon and were in the lead only to fall flat on their faces a few metres from the finish line. I just got this sense of ‘that will do, lets call it a day’. Which is heartbreaking because you could see that the actors put everything they had into this show, the crew put everything they had into this show, the editors and special effects crew put everything they had into this show, Ramin Djawadi put everything he had into the score for this show and I just feel like they were all let down in the end by the bad writing.

No Really What Was The Point? 

Ok so here are what my thoughts were directly after the episode

What was the point of Jon being resurrected? 

What was the point of Jon being a secret Targaryen? 

What was the point of the Azor Ahai prophecy and everything the red priestesses were doing? 

What was the point of Cersei’s prophecy from Maggie the Frog? 

What was the point of Gendry being Legitimised? 

Hell what was the point in bringing Gendry back in the first place? 

What was the point of the pack survives if all the Starks ended up alone? 

What was the point of you have a son I have a daughter if the houses were never joined? 

What was the point of Arya’s whole symbolism of choosing to live and her journey home if she was just going to isolate herself and sail off by herself?

What was the point of all the references to Sansa and Tyrion’s marriage (they brought it up in every episode) if they weren’t going to do anything with it? 

What was the point of Yara’s whole storyline of becoming Queen of the Iron Islands and having its independence if she wasn’t going to fight for it in the end? 

What was the point of Brienne’s vow to protect the Stark Girls and her storyline with Sansa if she was just going to end up as Bran’s Kingsguard instead of Sansa’s Queensguard?

What was the point of Jaime’s redemption arc when they just had him go back on it? 

What was the point of Cersei’s pregnancy? 

What was the point of Dorne? 

I’ll be honest this last episode left me with more questions than answers. Why didn’t Drogon kill Jon? Like I’m glad he didn’t but it still didn’t make sense. Where did he take Dany’s body? Is Jon going to live with the Wildlings or is he just escorting them then coming back. Is he the Lord Commander still? If he isn’t then who is? Did Gilly have a boy or a girl and did she name it Jon if it was a boy? How did Sam become a Maester and if there is still a Night’s Watch shouldn’t Sam have been sent back to the wall? I mean isn’t he technically a deserter? What happened to Nymeria is she still just wandering around the woods? What is the purpose of the Nights Watch now that the White Walkers are gone and peace has been made with the Free folk? Was Gendry on that boat? If he’s not then who’s going to teach him to use a fork? Where is Davos’ wife and is he ever going to see her again? What did Pod do to those whores? What happened when Tyrion took a honeycomb and an jackass into a brothel?  

This is a bit of a tangent but my whole family watches GOT and we usually ring around each other and talk about the show. So far only me and one (I have four) of my sisters have seen it. When she rang me right after seeing it she couldn’t even talk about it for good 10 minutes she was so mad and when she finally was able to form words her first ones were ‘I feel like I just wasted 10 years of my life.’ Followed by ‘I can’t believe they ended the greatest show in tv history with a sh*tty episode and by joking about f*cking boats and brothels’ and to be honest I’ve never related more to her in my life lol. But she too kept asking what was the point of ..? She’s also decided that the last season never happened.  

The Good Bits

Ok so I didn’t hate every moment of this episode there were some moments that I thought were good so I figured I’d do them last so that we can end on something sweet. 

The shot of Dany walking forward and it looks like Drogon’s wings are coming out of her back. That shot was beautiful. 

Tyrion finding the bodies of his brother and sister and crying over them had me weeping like a baby. Tyrion might be the God of Tits and Wine but Peter Dinklage is the God of Oscar Worthy Acting. He really knows how to do those emotionally powerful scenes. 

Ser Pod 

Bronn got his castle. 

Ghost got his cuddles. 

Sansa is Queen in the North and is slaying it. 

Jon saying goodbye to his siblings was also a very emotional scene for me. 

Arya and Jon’s scene outside Kings Landing was also sweet. 

Brienne filling in Jaime’s pages. 

Drogon trying to wake his momma really destroyed me. 

Grey Worm keeping his promise to Missandei and going to Naarth. 

My favourite moment in the episode though had to have been Tyrion throwing away his Hand of the Queen badge. I don’t even know why but it gave me chills.

Well there you go that’s it for now. I will at some point probably do an analysis of each of the characters story arcs and what I thought of where they all ended up we’ll see how I feel. At the moment I’m still a bit bummed out so. I know that there is a petition going around to re-write the last season but unfortunately that’s not likely to happen but it did get me thinking. As I said what this season really needed was more episodes to flesh it out and help it make more sense. I wonder how much footage ended up on the cutting room floor and whether there’s enough to do like an extended version of the season. They could release it on DVD or something like they do with some films.  

Also another thing that might appease me and other fans would be a spin off or sequel. Like they could do a spin off of Arya’s travels west of Westeros. And obviously there’ll be a scene where she goes below deck and there’s gendry or she looks back and there following the ship is a little row boat chasing after them. Just saying lol. But she could also write back to Sansa and Jon and Bran so although the focus would be on Arya we would still learn what’s happening with our characters back home obviously there’d be an invite to Sanrion’s 2nd wedding. Or even give us a ten years later spin off. I mean Tyrion did say ask me in 10 years to Jon. I don’t know what do you guys think? Did any of you enjoy the finale? Did any of you guess Bran as the King? If you had the choice would you like an extended version of this season or would you prefer a spin off?  

[stardyng]

I would love to read your opinion of the BotB, because apparently some people think it's Sansa's fault that Jon almost died, not to mention that she clearly didn't care about Rickon.

It’s important to note before anything else when talking about who deserves credit for the Starks having Winterfell after the battle is how the Northern Rebellion against the Boltons even started. It’s all centered around Sansa if you really think about it. She’s essentially the person who gives Jon a purpose after coming back to live, and she is what motivates him to become a hero again. Not only that, but she is the one who even suggests the idea of retaking the North from the Boltons hands. Plus, her situation in Winterfell is essentially what created all all of the other factors that led to Jon deciding to partake in the war. Her escape is what pushed Ramsey to write the pink letter that threatened Jon and the knight’s watch. It’s very much his letter to Jon (as well as Ramsey getting Rickon from the Umbers) that gives Jon the last push to help Sansa in rebelling against the Boltons. With all that being said, the point I’m trying to make is that the idea and the circumstances relating to the Northern Rebellion all came from Sansa, and that without her, Jon would have went south and simply stop fighting, there wouldn’t be a Northern Rebellion in the first place and the Boltons would still have possession of the North. 

Another important aspect to consider is what the army is essentially composed of. Initially they start of with 2000 Free Folk warriors. They only managed to obtain these men to fight for them because of Jon not only familiarizing himself with the wildlings but bringing them to the other side of the Wall. So he definitely deserves some credit for the victory. Jon and Sansa managed to get the allegiances of House Mazin (143 soldiers) and House Hornwood (200 soldiers) almost immediately. Due to Davos Seaworth, they also managed to get the allegiances of House Mormont (62 soldiers). Therefore all these men that are part of these armies and the heads of these houses played their part in assuring that the Starks win in this rebellion, no matter how big or small their contribution was. That being said, what saved the day were the 2000 mounted knights from the Vale that came at the end of the battle. Lord Robert and Littlefinger are partly the reason as to why these men were even there, but the person who deserves most of the credit for that happening is Sansa because her participating in this rebellion is the reason as to why they even bothered to fight in the first place. This has even been stated by Yohn Royce when he was talking about how they should crown Sansa as Queen instead of keeping Jon in this position of power later on. To go even further, the only reason why Littlefinger even got the chance to even help Sansa in fighting off the Boltons is because Sansa saved his life in the Vale by manipulating the lords (and Lady Anya) into thinking that Lysa killed herself. If it wasn’t for that decision and her manipulating skills that assured that Littlefinger lived and gained control of the Vale, Sansa wouldn’t have had any kind of access to the Knights of the Vale. So all in all, if we’re looking at who deserves credit for bringing all these houses (and the wildlings) to fight for the Starks, many people should be credited, but it’s Jon and Sansa who brought the bulk of the forces, and it was specifically the Knights of the Vale who won this battle that they only fought because of her (as in she was Littlefinger’s motivation to participate and Littlefinger lived to make that decision because of her). Therefore, Sansa deserves some credit for the success of the rebellion. 

Then, there’s the matter of Rickon who Sansa supposedly did not care about. I disagree with that notion. When Sansa heard about the fact that Ramsey had captured Rickon, she was definitely horrified, and him being in Ramsey’s hand gave Sansa the extra motivation to proceed with this rebellion. It’s also the deciding factor that led to Jon deciding to participate as well. Her initial reaction was genuine. A brother that she loved dearly was captured and she wanted to save him. Her whole thought process was centered around on what she was feeling at that moment, which was this worry and love for her brother which became part of her drive to rebel against the Boltons. However, as that time went on, she became less and less blinded by her emotions, and that was when the reality of things became apparent to her. She started to realize that there was no way that they could get Rickon back precisely because Ramsey is a person who wouldn’t be negligent enough for that to happen. The fact that Sansa escaped only made it so that Ramsey would be even more careful and ruthless with Rickon. We do not see that transition on screen, but it is insinuated. Therefore, she was definitely not manipulating Jon when she suggested that they rescue Rickon because at that time, she thought that they would be able to save Rickon as well.  

So yeah, at first she too thought that saving Rickon was possible, but unlike Jon, she knows Ramsey, and she has gotten far less optimist due to the what she had to live through these past few months. These two factors are what caused that shift in her answer when it comes to the question of whether they would be able to rescue Rickon or not. As for Sansa not mourning Rickon, I’ll have to say that this is something that is more the show’s fault than anything else. The show didn’t bother to have Sansa and Arya discuss Robb or Catelyn (nor did Jon and Sansa talked positively about them on screen). They didn’t bother to have a scene where Jon, Sansa, Arya or even Bran mentioned Rickon after he died. Let’s take Rickon’s death scene as an example. Jon was sad for a moment before being swept into a deadly battle, and after that battle, he doesn’t mention Rickon nor does he express any form of grief over his death. The writers don’t want the viewers to really care about Rickon or anyone’s reaction to him being captured by Ramsey or his death. The only exception to that is these key emotional moments. Therefore, I don’t think that Sansa (or Jon for that matter) didn’t express any sadness or grief over Rickon’s death, just that it was most likely handled off screen.  

The biggest source of controversy when it comes to the northern rebellion is Sansa not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale and Littlefinger, and only using them last minute when all hope seemed lost. Sansa did what she had to do, and there was no actual flaws in her reasoning. First of all, she was the one who wanted Jon to be extremely careful and not make risky decisions that could lead him to his death. She told him that Rickon was sure to not get out of Ramsey’s grasp alive and she told him to not fall into Ramsey’s traps. He did the complete opposite of everything she told him to do which are all things that would have made it so that he had much less risks of dying in the battle. She told him to wait until they have a bigger army in order to fight yet he still rushed into this battle. She told him to not fall for Ramsey’s trap and yet he disregarded the plan that he and his advisers set up to do exactly that. He was the one who put his own life in danger, not Sansa. She should not be held accountable for his own impulsive behavior and for him making these risky decisions.

Second of all, Sansa’s decision to not tell Jon about the Knights of The Vale is understandable. At first, the Tullys were supposed to come help them deal with Ramsey so they hadn’t need of Littlefinger and his army. There wasn’t any value in telling Jon about someone she absolutely did not want to partner with due to the fact that that man was partly responsible for the horrors that she had to live through. However, eventually it became clear that the Tullys wouldn’t be helping them in the rebellion and by that point, Sansa was actively trying to convince Jon to wait and find more men. She absolutely did not want to use Littlefinger so she argued to partner with more houses instead. Then, when it became clear that she had to ask Littlefinger for help, she wasn’t actually sure if he was guaranteed to come, and making Jon hopeful about something that could possibly never happen and have him base his plan around someone and something that is completely unreliable wouldn’t have been a good move. Therefore, she decided to be discreet about her asking Littlefinger for help. 

Also, in a general sense, Sansa made the right move. The best way to deal with Ramsey was to let Jon fight the battle with his army, and then strike Ramsey when he least expected it and when he was the most vulnerable. This is what Sansa did. This is something that Robb did in the Whispering Woods. He sacrificed a large enough part of his army in order to win several things that he thought were of more worth. Jaime himself did something just like that when he sacrificed Casterly Rock and the men he left there in order to deal with the Reach and Highgarden. When these men make these decisions that put a certain part of their army at risk (most chances are that a lot of these men that were sacrificed did not know they were being used), they are praised for it, yet when Sansa makes the same decision out of desperation and not because she really wanted to (this was the best thing she could do at that point in time, but before that, she constantly tried to find ways to deal with the problem in other ways) she’s ridiculously vilified.

Third of all, it was definitely a good idea to wait until the end to use the Knights of the Vale in this battle. The only reason as to why Ramsey decided to fight the war against the Starks on the ground instead of staying in Winterfell and defend himself there is essentially because he had no doubt in his mind that he was going to win. He knew that the other side didn’t have enough men, and that there was no strategy that they could come up with that could make up for that. So Ramsey decided to deal with them quickly and be done with it. So, to even begin with, the idea of not brandishing the rest of the army was a smart decision because it is what caused Ramsey to sacrifice his only real advantage. If he had chose to stay in Winterfell from the beginning, he would have surely won the war. So strategically speaking, striking the Boltons with a surprise army was simply an efficient thing to do. 

So all in all, Sansa was responsible for starting the Northern Rebellion in the first place, she was responsible for the army of the Vale being brought in to the fray, all her suggestions to Jon were ones that would have raised the likelihood of him living and them winning the battle, the reasons as to why she initially didn’t want to use the Knights of the Vale were completely valid, her plan to make the Knights of the Vale strike when everyone least expected it is what led to Ramsey underestimating the Starks,, she did not use Rickon to manipulate Jon and definitely cared about her younger brother, and criticizing Sansa’s plan (to wait until the end to use the Knights of The Vale) on a moral level  is hypocritical when other characters did not get criticized for making similar decisions. So all in all, Sansa deserves all the praise and none of the criticism for the part she played in the Northern Rebellion.