#you're not luthien and besides

[marietheran]

there's a party coming up on saturday and I'm getting unreasonably excited given how in all probability it's going to be as terrible as last time. when I hid in the toilet until I was able to leave. and that was like after only an hour.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

1, 13 and 25 for the choose violence asks please!

the character everyone gets wrong

Let's see, I already did Maedhros, and and I did posts about most of the other Fëanoreans as well (but seriously, everyone does get Celegorm wrong, he's politically ambitious and dangerous, not dumb and feral).

I think much of fandom gets the Valar wrong. The thing that I always come back to about the Valar is that everything they do is about love for the Eruhini and wanting them to be happy and safe and well. They err (because the Eruhini are meant for more than just being happy and safe), but it's all coming from that place of love and care. They ask the Elves to come to Aman so that they're not exposed to the dangers of Middle-earth. (I think they don't stay in Middle-earth in part because they remember Almaren and the destruction of the lamps, which ruined continents.) They let the elves do basically what they want - they've got virtually no rules besides "don't threaten to kill people" and "don't kill people", both of which come up in response to situations they really never anticipated. The rescue of Maedhros by Thorondor and the foundation of Nargothrond and Gondolin shows that they are clearly willing to help the Noldor, even after the Kinslaying and the Doom.

The difficulty is, in part the nature of their power. The Valar are at the same time tremendously powerful, to the point where they cannot have a direct war with the forces of evil without it levelling continents, and much less powerful than we expect them to be. They can't stop the Kinslaying by snapping their fingers and pulling all the elves' weapons out of their hands; that's not an ability they have, and getting involved would mean personally killing large numbers of elves, something they are clearly unwilling to do. They're far from omniscient; they don't always know what's happening outside Valinor. So people get confused and aggravated by them, because they simultaneously have the powers of gods and lack the powers of comic book superheroes.

13. worst blorboficiation

Finrod!! I get so tired of seeing him portrayed as a ditz, as a flake, as naïve, as sleeps-with-everything. Finrod is probably both the most intelligent and the most intellectually curious character in The Silmarillion (come on, the longest scene we get with him an an extended philosophical debate!), as well as being the wisest and most thoughtful. He's the linchpin of diplomacy for all Beleriand and things fall apart without him. He's not naïve; he walks to his death knowing that's what he's doing (he's already foreseen that his oath to Barahir will destroy him and that Nargothrond will not survive).

I think where it comes from is the fact that he's kind, and there's a sort of assumption running through society that kindness and intelligence/awareness are opposed to each other; that someone who is ruthless must also be intelligent, and that someone who is kind must also be dumb. (I partly blame House and Sherlock.) Neither are true.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

"Yes but the Silmarils are the Fëanoreans' property!" When did tumblr of all places start believing in the absolute sanctity of property rights? No need to go all stand-your-ground/libertarian about it.

I don't care. I really don't. I think that Beren and Lúthien achieving the impossible feat of getting one out of Angband, at overwhelming personal cost and in the teeth of Fëanorean opposition, does give them a right to it, and I think the Fëanoreans cease to have any right to make any demands whatsoever of the people they attempted to rape and murder, or of those people's son. The Silmaril itself accepts Beren's claim, in despite of the Silmarils being hallowed against "mortal flesh", even as it later rejects the Fëanoreans'. Beren and Luthien suffer greatly in order to obtain the Silmaril, they are meant to have it, and the fact that it is part of their family line enables the salvation of Middle-earth. That's enough for me.

[muse-write]

💖 Which of your fics is your pride and joy?

🙌What's a line or paragraph of yours that you're proud of?

🍎What's something you learned while researching for a fic?

🌷What's one of your fics that isn't as popular, but you hold dear?

Oh! I don't think I ever got a notification for this, sorry Song! I just ran across it in my inbox!

💖 That's definitely going to be The Council of Elessar. I'm proving myself to be more of a perfectionist with this story than I ever thought I would be, but if I can iron out the subplot causing me difficulty without detracting from the main Maglor character study/redemption arc that's the true focus, this story (novel, at the point) has so much potential to both highlight some of my favorite themes and provide a character study I would have absolutely loved to read myself years ago. I look at my plan for this story and I have so much love and joy for the characters involved, but even if I can't quite do it justice, I hope I can get at least a little of that clearly on the page.

🙌 From This Story Will Be Ours:

Hiravar paced the pavilion, hands tapping absently on the stone railing. “Don’t do that. Don’t wait for me like that.” He came close beside her and hesitantly reached for her hand. “Tirwë, you are an Elf and even more a minstrel. You think in stories and songs and poetry and…narrative parallels and whatever else. But I don’t think we have to be that story. If you die in this war, I will mourn you, but I do not want to resent what could have been. Perhaps our story won’t be Beren and Luthien’s, but…” Tirwë pursed her lips and gripped Hiravar’s hand with all her strength. But it will be ours, she thought fiercely.

I just think this gets at the main theme in Tirwe and Hiravar's story (they're OCs in Middle-earth, particularly inspired by Lord of the Rings Online)--learning how each communicates, dealing with culture shock and misunderstandings as this Elf and human struggle to survive and deal with the constant threat of death and the rise of darkness. Elves (Tirwe) process it through stories. Humans (Hiravar) are generally more about action, doing something and making the choice even if that choice might not be the wisest.

🍎The Geography of Middle-Earth 😂 I've looked at so many maps trying to figure out distance and reasonable travel times. Beyond that, I did a surprising amount of research on medieval construction techniques to write those scenes set in Minas Morgul in The Council of Elessar--it's amazing to think how sophisticated cities and aquifers were so long ago when all they had were hands and rudimentary equipment!

🌷A Rebel and a General: this is my WW2 AU of a meeting between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. It's short and there's not much to it, but I like the description in this story and the relationship between French Resistance fighter Luke and Nazi general Vader compels me.

[that-angry-noldo]

wait there’s a Beren as death au??? How did I not know about this and can I request a drabble for it pls ❤️❤️ (also congrats on the milestone am very proud to be one of the lucky 204!)

(milestone celebration!)

Don't worry you didn't know about this because i never wrote it, only mentioned it here and there

I doubted whether to start chronologically or to write a random drabble, and random drabble won. It was something I wanted to write a while ago but never got to it... hope you enjoy :)

~

"Were you there?" Elrond asked. "When Elros passed?"

The figure beside him shifted. Elrond noticed once again how bland it looked in comparision to surroundings. A simple black cape covering its shoulders, white hair, calloused hands - it looked like an old man, and, no matter how hard he tried, Elrond couldn't see anything else.

Carefully, Death picked up a duckling and it peeped, frightened. Death's eyes glided over Elrond.

"I reap every mortal soul who comes into this world," Death answered, and Elrond took a breath.

The morning was slowly regaining its right. First sunrays brushed over Death's hair.

"Was he- was he afraid?"

"You were there, Peredhil," Death said softly, caressing the duckling's feathers with his thumb. "You saw him yourself, and he talked to you, too. I don't need to tell you how he felt."

"He-"

Elrond pursed his lips. Death looked at him with tired eyes.

"He always did that," Elrond whispered finally. "Put on a brave face for me. I- I know he was in peace, and I know he made- he made his choice, but- was he- was he afraid? Deep down, did he want to live, did he-"

"He wanted to live," Death said, smiling faintly. "Of course he wanted to live. Everything alive longs to remain so for as long as possible, Peredhil."

Elrond felt a knot tying up in his throat. Death crouched near the pond and lowered the duckling on the water. It was quick to make its way to its distressed mother.

"But he wasn't afraid," Death continued. "He was... excited."

"A new journey," Elrond mumbled. "He was talking about a new journey."

"He was." Death straightened, and looked towards the West - towards the rising sun. Elrond took a deep breath.

"I am not the end, Peredhil," Death said, and smiled at him. "He is happy, if that's what matters to you. And he wishes you to be happy, too."

The duckling quacked, getting out of the pond and making its way back to Death. Elrond couldn't help but smile a bit as Death leaned down patiently and put it back into the water.

Elrond bit his lip, trying to force down his tears. "You really do love animals," he tried to laugh, hiding his sobs. Death shook his head.

"They say you take after Luthien," he grumbled. "And yet, Luthien was much more subtle in conversation changes."

"Ah - you're right. I got this from your side of the family."

Death stared at him, unimpressed, and Elrond felt himself grinning depite it all. Finally, Death rolled his eyes.

"It's an honor to be your ancestor, Peredhil," Death said. "I mean it."

"Well," Elrond smiled, "it's an honor to be your descendant, Erchamion. Though it's a great weight, too."

Death nodded, and the next moment, Elrond was alone, only mist and a distressed duckling reminding him of the past hour.

The sun was slowly rising over Rivendell. Elrond stood there for few more minutes, then turned away and headed to the city.

[imakemywings]

Galadriel for the character ask (apologies if you already covered her, I don't think I've seen it yet)

Character Ask Game

I haven't gotten Galadriel yet!

one aspect about them i love

Honestly one of my favorite things about Galadriel is that she isn't unequivocally moral. She has some shadier aspects--she's prideful and deeply ambitious and she occasionally gives off some very dangerous vibes. I think it's deeply important to her character to remember that she sided with Feanor about leaving Aman (not because she bought into his quest, but she was gung-ho about rebelling against the Valar and bailing to Middle-earth)! By the time we see her in LotR I think she's aware of these things about herself and for the most part has them under control--but Galadriel tempted with the Ring in the First Age? Harder question, I think.

one aspect i wish more people understood about them

Probably the above? If you're only familiar with LotR, especially the movies, I think it's easier to view Galadriel as a kind of angelic force of good, but she isn't really. She's not always on the side of good. She lied to Melian about the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. She left Aman explicitly because she wanted her own kingdom to rule. But I think these things make her interesting!

one (or more) headcanon(s) i have about this character

Ider if this is actual canon, but she was offered a pardon at the end of WoW and refused it because she did not even want to acknowledge that she needed a pardon. It was an extremely prideful moment for her and she definitely had at least passing regrets later that she so casually tossed aside the offer.

one character i love seeing them interact with

Luthien, natch. I think Luthien constantly put Galadriel on the back foot and had her fumbling, mostly for her own amusement. But I do think they were friends and that Luthien really liked Galadriel and Galadriel learned a lot about ruling from Luthien, as well as from Melian and Thingol.

one character i wish they would interact with/interact with more

This one is hard! Because she survives through all three Ages, there are a lot of options. I would be interested in knowing what relationship she had with Finwe and with her parents. @swanmaids has talked about how hard Earwen found it to forgive her children after Alqualonde--it would be interesting to see if Galadriel has an easier time with her, since Earwen has had so much more time to process that with Galadriel than she did with Finrod.

I would love to see her interact more with the Nolofinweans besides Aredhel. Fingolfin and Finarfin's families were super close, so I think it's safe to imagine Galadriel had a tight relationship with Fingon, Turgon, and Argon as well, and I would be really interested to see more of that explored.

one (or more) headcanon(s) i have that involve them and one other character

Finrod was lowkey her favorite brother, but there were times she underestimated him and felt like she was the older sibling. She often felt as an adult like she was the stronger, more serious one between them and it was only very occasionally he would actually try to shut her down with that. Hearing about his death shook her a lot and it sort of broke something in her relationship with Luthien, because she had the feeling Luthien would have willingly traded Finrod's life for Beren's and even if Galadriel might've done the same in reverse, she couldn't quite forgive it.

[tolkien-feels]

.... Okay, you wore me down. Do you have any links to the Silm musical you keep talking about, and do you think it's accessible for people (aka my parents) who are medium-big LotR fans but have no experience with any First Age content?

There are multiple Silm musicals actually, but I know my hyperfixations so I'm sure you're talking about the Beren and Luthien one lol

I do in fact have links! The most important atm is @sewn-with-lilies-fair 's pinned post (and the Lay of Leithian tag) but so far this is being a great year for the Lay of Leithian rock opera fandom because we're getting so much stuff?? It's great, but it also means that maybe if you ask me like, next week, I'll have more stuff to share because this is very much an ongoing production.

Anyway! I've successfully had at least one friend who never got through the Silm watch the show and love it, and I know other people have had similar experiences. Of course, the more you know the source material the more you get out of it (nods to the source material my beloved <3) but it's a love story, so the story beats are probably followable even if you've never heard of Tolkien, let alone if you're familiar with LotR!

You know how you miss A Lot of LotR the first time you read or watch it, but you get the general idea that these people are trying to get to a volcano to destroy a ring? It's basically the same situation here.

Understanding each and every detail isn't mandatory as long as you remember that Local Man Must Steal Sauron's Boss's Crown Jewel To Marry Elf Princess. That's really all there is to it. If it helps, remind your parents that Aragorn and Arwen are Beren and Luthien 2.0, and that just as Aragorn must become king to marry Arwen (and she must give up her immortality to marry him), Beren must steal the most heavily guarded jewel in the world to marry Luthien.

Alternatively, if your parents don't mind spoilers, you could just........ have Aragorn tell them the story........ Like, he straight up sums up the rock opera to the hobbits when he's explaining the context for the Song of Beren and Luthien. Here's the quote for your convenience

Beren [son of Barahir] was a mortal man, but Lúthien was the daughter of Thingol, a King of Elves upon Middle-earth when the world was young; and she was the fairest maiden that has ever been among all the children of this world. As the stars above the mists of the Northern lands was her loveliness, and in her face was a shining light. In those days the Great Enemy, of whom Sauron of Mordor was but a servant, dwelt in Angband in the North, and the Elves of the West coming back to Middle-earth made war upon him to regain the Silmarils which he had stolen; and the fathers of Men aided the Elves. But the Enemy was victorious and Barahir was slain, and Beren escaping through great peril came over the Mountains of Terror into the hidden Kingdom of Thingol in the forest of Neldoreth. There he beheld Lúthien singing and dancing in a glade beside the enchanted river Esgalduin; and he named her Tinúviel, that is Nightingale in the language of old. Many sorrows befell them afterwards, and they were parted long. Tinúviel rescued Beren from the dungeons of Sauron, and together they passed through great dangers, and cast down even the Great Enemy from his throne, and took from his iron crown one of the three Silmarils, brightest of all jewels, to be the bride-price of Lúthien to Thingol her father. Yet at the last Beren was slain by the Wolf that came from the gates of Angband, and he died in the arms of Tinúviel. But she chose mortality, and to die from the world, so that she might follow him; and it is sung that they met again beyond the Sundering Seas, and after a brief time walking alive once more in the green woods, together they passed, long ago, beyond the confines of this world. So it is that Lúthien Tinúviel alone of the Elf-kindred has died indeed and left the world, and they have lost her whom they most loved. But from her the lineage of the Elf-lords of old descended among Men. There live still those of whom Lúthien was the foremother, and it is said that her line shall never fail. Elrond of Rivendell is of that Kin.

I mean, there's more to it but that's the gist of it.

If I had to add anything, I would say that:

The Great Enemy is called Melkor or Morgoth

Melkor is a god. We meet another god in the rock opera: Mandos, keeper of the halls of the dead. A god of death, basically

Luthien's kingdom is called Doriath, and it's magically protected by her mother Melian, who is as powerful as Gandalf or Sauron

At some point, Beren asks for the help of Galadriel's brother Finrod, who's been close to Beren's family for generations

Finrod has two scheming cousins who in the musical are essentially comedy relief, but one of these cousins has a giant talking dog called Huan, and this dog is an important character

There's more to it still but that's way, way, way more than you actually need to know to follow the storyline

[that-angry-noldo]

The morning was dim and chilly. The Rabbit raised its ear at the sound of wings approaching, and stomped his feet a few times before eventually jumping forward and setting a quick and certain pace.

The Fox was quick to follow, though the Rabbit wasn't a prey now. It swiped its glorious tail and gave the Rabbit a side-eye.

"Hurrying somewhere, Rabbit?" the Fox asked, and the Rabbit twitched it's ear.

"I've got a mite under my neck," it admitted. "I mean, I can totally take it out myself, but I've got..." it jumped to think, it's eyes taking in the surrounding and ears perking up, "I've got five more favours from Human to go. What about you?"

"Eh," the Fox shrugged, "the usual. He still owes me four handfulls of berries. I'm getting too old to hunt, you know?"

The rabbit muttered a quiet "thank God", but nodded sympathetically nonetheless. Over their heads, a Cuckoo chirped, and the Fox raised its head curiosly.

"Good morning, mrs. Cuckoo!" the Fox gritted, and Cuckoo got lower. It was panting and looking deeply unsettled. "I see we're headed to the same destination?"

"Oi, don't even get me started!" the Cuckoo cried. "It's time I finally lay my eggs but all of my neighbours become absolutely vile at the idea! I mean, I know I'm not the best mother, but come on, where's solidarity?! They have kids already anyways-"

"So you're going to Human as well?" the Rabbit asked. The Cuckoo nodded.

"The Human! I can always count on Human, Human never betrayed me. Human knows how to hatch my eggs and take care of my chicks!"

"Don't you think it might be too much?" the Fox inclined. "I've heard the Human is already fostering three little pups of the unfortunate Mrs. Wolf who lived up the stream, Mandos take her soul, and has a young on his own... Are you sure your eggs won't end up on his pan?"

"Truth told, I don't care where my eggs end up, Mr. Fox," the Cuckoo chirped lightly. "I just want to get it over with! Besides, I trust Human. If he thinks my eggs are better for a meal, I'm gonna trust him."

"Weird morals do you have, Mrs. Cuckoo," the Rabbit murmured. "But look! We're almost there. Thank God the gate is open!"

"True! My berries are waiting. Human always has the best berries."

"Do you think he'll feed my chicks berries?"

"Mrs. Cuckoo, every day I wake up and thank God you're not a mother."

"Look! Look! Human's mate is there!"

"Oh I love human's mate she's the best!! Hey! Hi!! Could you look after my chicks?"

~

Luthien looked at the bird who was busy tangling itself into Luthien's hair, and smiled at the old fox and shy looking rabbit. Beren lifted his head from where he's been working on a wooden bear for Dior.

"Everything's alright, starshine?"

"Yeah," Luthien laughed and opened the gate further, letting the fox and rabbit slip in. "Looks like your friends are already here for their appointment."

[that-angry-noldo]

For the WIP ask game, would you tell more about Warriors, please?

yeah!

warriors is my superhero au that i hope i will write more of someday. i have not yet decided whether the elves are immortal in that, it depends on how unhinged i want to au to get.

The main plot conflict was Maedhros' and Masquerade's (Finrod's) rivalry - Finrod is a vigilante and Maedhros one of the top heroes, who is set on having Masquerade's ass busted because he knows for sure that it's Finrod but has no proof and Finrod is too smug about that for his own good. Additional conflict revolves around Finarfin's and Fingolfin's relationship - Finarfin left the Heroes' Department early on, leaving Fingolfin to deal with Finwë and Feänor (who later left also). Finrod & Finarfin too because I was normal about the two for too long. And of course we have a Global Cataclism™ that will make our characters work together :D maybe bonus luthien would work

A snippet!

"You should be more careful."

Findaráto rolls his eyes and plumps in the chair. His father looks disapprovingly. "You know I'm careful," he scoffs. "Besides, you know nothing can hurt me."

"That is, objectively, a lie."

Findaráto rolls his eyes further. "You don't count, atya. Most of them have not fought me for longer than five minutes. Besides, I keep my power a secret."

"But your cousins aren't idiots, Findaráto, and thinking they are is foolish at best."

"I never thought them idiots. Maitimo is very smart, for instance. It's not my fault he's so frustratingly insufferable."

"You're playing with fire, yonya."

Findaràto grins. "Oh, father, but I know."

[tolkien-feels]

Hi hi omg I saw you say in a comment that you are one of the 3 people who likes Daeron (thank you for revealing yourself), I am also one of those 3 people. And I know at least 4 others so that's 6! Double!

Since your takes and headcanons are amazing can you please talk about him?

Oh there are so many of us!!! 🥺 (Also thank you for your nice words omg this ask has so much serotonin!)

Okay, so I prefer Daeron as Luthien's brother not because I'm opposed to his being in love with her, but because I adore the idea of Daeron taking after Thingol in many ways, and being less beloved for the damning character flaw of not being Melian 2.0 like his sister. But I'll ignore that and focus on the published Silm, because that is also a very good story in a completely different way.

There's something incredibly... pure? is maybe the right word,,,, about Daeron. I can name several cases in Tolkien where a man is in love with a woman who doesn't love him back, but I can think of no other where the woman actually thinks "Of every person I know, this is who I trust most when I need help." And Luthien isn't wrong to trust him? Other than denying her agency, which is admittedly a horrible thing to do, I have a hard time condemning Daeron? I don't know that I would want anyone I love marching straight to the Dark Lord for a person who is going to die anyway, be it in a few minutes or in a few years. Hell, Beren also doesn't Luthien to leave Doriath, he just underestimates her stubbornness and courage, which is not very surprising - between Daeron and Beren, the one who's known Luthien all her life is Daeron, after all.

The thing for me is that Daeron is out there being the best minstrel ever and a loremaster and a linguist and well-regarded in the fairest realm of Beleriand and Luthien's closest friend. This is definitely an uncommonly talented and socially powerful elf. If he had to """fall""", you'd expect it to be out of pride or something of that sort - we've read that story a thousand times in the Silm by the time Daeron becomes important. But his fall is actually a matter of either heartbreak or fearing for Luthien's fate.

I wouldn't even say Daeron falls as much as he... makes mistakes? I don't get the vibe of him having ruined any lives besides his own, and even that is debatable - after Beren comes into the picture, is there a possible happy ending Daeron can get? Maybe if he died for Luthien's sake he might have been happy-ish in Valinor, but that's pretty much it. (Here's a fun little au to ponder: Sauron vs Daeron)

The story very much identifies itself with Luthien, so Daeron comes across as a jealous, untrustworthy, controlling Nice Guy™️ but the couple of things he does in this one story shouldn't overshadow the centuries of him being, as far as we can tell, a genuinely great guy. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not an apologist, I don't take betrayal lightly, but for me that's what's interesting. A lot of Silm character tend to come in the flavors Basically Very Good and Basically Very Bad, with a few You're Doing Your Best But Things Aren't Looking Too Good. I literally don't know where Daeron fits into this. I try to find other characters who are remarkably good, mess up for ONE (01) story and then immediately regret everything and lament forever, and I just can't? Daeron speedruns Maglor's character arc, which is bizarre because Maglor's arc is all about living on and on and on.

I also think it's very telling that Tolkien says he wanders seeking Luthien "in despair." Is it just me who finds that a surprising word choice? He's not angry or bitter or even in pain, he's in despair. Even for an elf in unrequited love, that's pretty intense. It doesn't sound at all to me like we're meant to treat Daeron being in love as a mistake on his part, or as possessiveness. It sounds pretty legitimate, imho? Like I keep saying, for all that he's immortalized as the embodiment of betrayal, Daeron seems pretty damn sincere.

And finally, it isn't really connected to what I was saying but I find this pretty neat

Then she would become mortal, land subject to a second death, even as he; and ere long she would leave the world for ever, and her beauty become only a memory in song.

But seeking for Lúthien in despair he wandered upon strange paths, and passing over the mountains he came into the East of Middle-earth, where for many ages he made lament beside dark waters for Lúthien, daughter of Thingol, most beautiful of all living things.

I get so emotional thinking about how Daeron ultimately lives out the rest of his days offering Luthien one of the few things Beren can't give her, one of the few things that can make the loss of eternity less bitter. And!!! Daeron does that unseen by Luthien. Because she is with Beren. Which is exactly how this entire story began. Like, the parallels, I'm going to s c r e a m.