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lurkingteapot · 8 months

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Hi, how would a non-binary person (me) get around the binary gender rules and vocab in Thai?

Thank on you for your amazing resources!

Hi there!

This is a question I feel like native speakers of Thai should be much more qualified to answer 😅 @recentadultburnout ? @jinitak ? Any takers?

For what it's worth, though: I also consider myself outside the gender binary, and am uncomfortable with some forms of gendered address in languages I'm fluent in, and as such have looked into it a bit. I'm barely conversational, so the things I list here have been sourced from conversations with queer and non-binary Thai acquaintances and a couple of language teachers plus my own observations, which may very well be faulty … so under the cut it goes.

First off: Thai isn't nearly as clearly binarily gendered as many beginner resources indicate. Beginner resources will say, oh, men™ say ผม (/pʰǒm/) and women™ say ฉัน (/tɕʰǎn/), but (as you may have already observed while watching shows or interviews) in reality people (queer or straight, cis or trans) will use several different pronouns for themselves and others depending on who they're talking to, and in what context—perception of gender is only one part of that. Your age, the tone of voice and level of politeness/formality you're affecting, the situation you're in at that moment, all those things affect how you talk about yourself to others, and how others talk about and to you. It's not as cut and dry as English "these are my pronouns" -- partially also because you'd kind of need to go out of your way to gender the person you're talking about in Thai.

One example: people of all genders can and do use ฉัน (/tɕʰǎn/), though I gather it's less commonly used by men these days. Contrary to what most classes will teach, men or people who are read as male may (and do!) use ค่ะ (/kʰâʔ/; often drawn out to ค่าาา (/kʰâː/ with a very drawn-out aaa)) and จ๊ะ (/tɕáʔ/) in affectionate/familiar conversation, and it's not unheard of for men to refer to themselves by their given name, either -- something a lot of teachers will say are "feminine" speech patterns. For women or people who're read as female to use particles such as ครับ (/kʰráp/) or pronouns such as ผม (/pʰǒm/) seems to be less common, though not unheard of, especially when a woman is affecting a brash personality at that moment. All that is to say … for those of us who fall somewhere in between (or outside the binary altogether), there's quite a bit of wiggle room.

Golf Tanwarin (former MP and the director of GMMTV show The Eclipse) uses different particles depending on context – I've watched interviews where they use ครับ (/kʰráp/) exclusively, others where they use both ครับ (/kʰráp/) and ค่ะ (/kʰâʔ/), and in the live spaces they opened when the Eclipse was airing, to my recollection they used ค่ะ (/kʰâʔ/) and จ๊ะ (/tɕáʔ/) pretty much exclusively. Some non-binary Thais use non-standard polite particles -- Silvy Pavida (The Warp Effect, Laws of Attraction) uses งัฟ (/ŋáp/) on their IG posts, for one example.

My personal approach (which, again! may or may not work for you) is that I go with what people expect from my appearance, and switch to other options only once I'd've got to know my conversation partner better. My reasoning for this is that as a language learner, trying to deviate from the expected language use will likely be perceived not as me trying to express my identity, but simply as me being bad at the language -- I feel like I need to attain and display a level of skill with the language that makes clear the uncommon way I use it is intentional, first. This might not be your approach! but it's worked for me so far.

What I'm doing in the meantime: I try to watch content by people who … idk, match the sort of presentation I aspire to, or who I feel kinship with? and try to emulate what they do (keeping in mind that most online content is rather informal); sometimes, when I'm comfortable enough, I will just try things out when I have the chance (though this can have embarrassing results).

tl;dr there's no way around it, but there are several ways to manage it, and you'll find out best by playing around and finding what works for you, personally :)

(also: I'm glad you found the 'learning Thai' link dump helpful <3)

#thai language #learning thai #personal #asked and answered #zimmbiscuit #language soup #gender #my nonsense #yeeting this out there before I second guess myself even more

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