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"I have discovered a world I had no idea existed."

Ingrid Bergman in Europa ‘51 (Roberto Rossellini, 1952)

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this is so crazy, i’m really glad i’m not the only person thinking about this. i’ve actually been chatting to some of my archiver friends recently about potentially creating a polished sewing circle archive… if people are interested i might make an official start on the project…?

obviously, as of right now, i’d only be able to fill it with my own personal knowledge of the actresses i stan, but i have been wanting to do a project like this for a while. especially considering the precarious state of queer liberties right now, having a robust resource that documents historical queer figures could be really important in preserving that small part of queer history.

i’ve been on the wlw side of the old hollywood fandom for like five years now, and a reliable, fact-checked resource like that would been a dream. it could also really benefit from how communal the old hollywood fandom tends to be to help build it out.

i’m sort of rambling a bit, but i have had this exact thought and honestly, if people are interested in supporting or contributing, i might start taking steps to make it real…

need a consolidated and well researched and organized and maintained resource/website that has a comprehensive list of all the gay rumors or whatever of old hollywood actors/prominent figures. I do not want this for people who are alive but I should be able to look up like idk jean arthur gay and be taken directly to a beautiful website with a list of quotes with their sources and maybe even some evaluations as to the reliability of said source and like how direct vs second hand it is etc. instead of getting directed to random totally fake sounding terrible graphic design misquotations from gossip rags or that one ugly website with biographical info that lets users vote on if someone is gay straight or bi that is so out of date it says joan fontaine is alive but also that apparently 57% of voters here think she’s gay. which. we don’t have time to unpack.

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'No one ever leaves a star. That's what makes one a star.'

Sunset Boulevard (1950)

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Ingrid Bergman in the eponymous role in Joan of Arc (1948).

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On the twenty-fifth of June, she boarded the train to Goteborg. Her mother Anna, brother Sven, and sister Alva, all accompanied her to the Central Station. Though her mother didn’t say very much, she reassured her daughter with a bittersweet smile that she knew Greta would be happiest pursuing her dream, wherever it took her. Greta maintained a brave front. All she could remember saying was, “I’ll be back in one year. It is only twelve months.” And then she was gone.

The following day Stiller and Garbo were bound for the United States on the Swedish-American liner Drottningholm. "People here do not know what it means to my people when somebody goes to America. There is always so much crying—a feeling that they will never come back to their own country and their own people,” Greta said wistfully. “They feel they are going away forever." Both Mauritz Stiller and Greta Garbo left the happiest parts of their lives behind in Sweden—something neither one would ever recapture, no matter how hard they tried. Greta Garbo leaving Sweden to return to Hollywood c. 1929

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I like this actor, I should watch more of his movies *opens IMDB page* he should be in better movies

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What are 5 old Hollywood films you'd recommend to someone just starting to watch old films?

ohhh this is such a good question!! and very very hard to answer because it really depends on a lot of things, especially like what genres a person tends to gravitate towards (and other like tropes and themes they may like). also like, for me, getting into old movies was through becoming extremely obsessed with bette and joan and letting it branch out from there and you see now I am obsessed with soooo many women. and partially bc of that, there’s still a lot of classic iconic old movies I haven’t seen.

the other big thing is like, one of the hurdles in my experience to enjoying old films is like getting used to their tropes and cadence and structure, because it is different and at times jarring when you aren’t used to it. (of course theres also the extremely… I was going to say outdated ideals and vocabulary but that’s not exactly true. the often much more overt and caricature-esque racism, sexism, etc. which if that turns you off of old hollywood is extremely valid.)

also, for a longer list (sorted by genre) or for a queer coded women list

Generalized Starter Pack (the idea here is to give exposure to a variety of genres, styles, and actors to kind of hope one sticks, also like obviously these are movies I really enjoy and really enjoyed upon first watch)

All About Eve (1950)

His Girl Friday (1940)

Vertigo (1958)

Double Indemnity (1944)

Now, Voyager (1942)

if anyone wants more specific recs, I can absolutely do that, just give me a genre or a theme or some (presumably more modern) movies you like and I will do my best! anyways uhh I spent a long time today starting to plan and write about 3 different versions of this answer with more recommendations organized differently or based around different interests, but I'm realizing none of that super makes sense... that said...

my biggest recommendations for exploring old movies are not really specific movies themselves, but

Watch what you like. Genres were different then, so it isn't a one-to-one, but if you don't like mysteries and thrillers, maybe don't start with Hitchcock or noirs. If you like romcoms, maybe watch some screwballs. If you watch a movie and think its well directed, watch another by the same person.

Watch what you're curious about. It isn't always going to end up being your favorite movie, but like, if you've always wanted to know if Casablanca lives up to its reputation, watch it. If you're wondering why I'm always going on about The Women, watch it. If you're scrolling through movies or something and some wacky title or summary catches your eye, watch it. You can always decide halfway through to quit if it really isn't your thing.

Explore/engage with variety. Maybe this goes a little against my first point, but as much as I do think following your tastes is often going to be your safest bet, especially in terms of dipping your toes in so to speak, I really recommend poking around. For example, I typically do not enjoy modern romcoms, but I adore screwballs. Try out different directors and different actors. I actually would like to do this a lot more.

Do a deep dive on something. Now again, I'm being a little contradictory. But, this is like, I'm saying you should go back and forth. Explore, find something you like, dig in, find another axis to explore on. I think part of what makes people hesitant is that there are so so many movies and its hard to pick a starting point. And, because of the structure of the studio system, you will be able to dive lol. It can be on an actor, on a genre, on a director, on a cinematographer, on a writer, on a studio, on pre-code movies, on whatever.

Be aware of conventions and be critical. Like I said, super fair and valid if the racism and misogyny make old hollywood unbearable for you. I do think to choose to meaningful engage with old hollywood and not be like. an insane reactionary, you have to go in knowing that it's going to have a lot of shitty views expressed and a lot of stereotypes upheld and a lot of awful messages and not a lot of diversity, etc. and you have to stay critical of this. (which, imo, it's very easy to stay critical bc of how overt the bigotry is.) i'm by no means saying more overt and extreme racism or misogyny or anything is something you have to stomach, or that anyone should have to be compelled by movies centered around and predominantly made/controlled by white people (and insert like every axis of privilege in here). i'm saying that you are not going to enjoy most if any old hollywood movies if you are expecting them to be, for lack of a better word, woke. (movies will sometimes surprise you in interesting ways, though. in Possessed, from 1931 I believe, the same guy who has been referring to a woman as his investment and possession advocates for prison abolition. i find this stuff very historically interesting)

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i need all of you who consistently say "i love [actor of color] but [white actor] just fits this role better" on the fancast polls to take a long look at your preconceptions and think about why you think a white actor is better for the role. because this happens a LOT. and yes maybe you have more roles to draw from when you think of the white actor or you've seen them in a role like this before. but think about why that is. why would a black actress maybe not historically be put in a sweet innocent part. is there maybe a historical reason why a woman of color doesn't have a long filmography playing romantic leads. if you've gotten this far in the post and still don't know i will tell you why: old hollywood was a white supremacist system and they cast accordingly, and if you continue to use their modes of casting you are carrying on exactly the way they wanted you to see the world. i suspect many of you are not doing this on purpose but you still need to sit with your reactions here and think through why certain actors don't "seem right" for certain parts. it's been 4 polls now and while these characters are all admittedly smaller parts of p&p, and maybe this ship will turn around when we hit the big guns, it does not bode well to me that they are tending white every single time and i need y'all to think what kind of internal casting process you're going through with this

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His Girl Friday (1940) dir. Howard Hawks

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A rare pre-code photo of Joan Crawford by George Hurrell, 1931.

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How to Marry a Millionaire (1953) dir. Jean Negulesco

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Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond as Charlie Chaplin in Sunset Boulevard (1950)

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To put me to bed? Take my clothes off, hold my head? Tuck me in, turn off the lights and tiptoe out? Eve would, wouldn't you, Eve? - If you'd like.

Anne Baxter & Bette Davis as Eve Harrington & Margo Channing in ALL ABOUT EVE (1950) dir. Joseph L. Mankiewicz

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Flesh And The Devil (1926) - directed by Clarence Brown

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Bette Davis in Fog Over Frisco (1934)

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DESIRE (1936) Marlene Dietrich & Zeffie Tilbury

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Marlene Dietrich, Berlin, 1929