whogivesa-ship

[whogivesa-ship]

[whogivesa-ship]

author: this story depicts rape

some chucklefuck on tumblr.com: but how do we know that rape is wrong

author: w

author: what

[whogivesa-ship]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how predators work. Predators always look for power they can hold over their victims and being seen as moral and safe is powerful.

Look at it this way: Why would predators become priests? Theoretically, the Catholic Church is incredibly hostile to predators. It’s all about hating sinners and abusing children is one of the worst sins possible. But predators still become priests because people assume priests are bastions of morality and that gives them power. Priests are supposed to be safe and trustworthy, especially around vulnerable people like children, so most people in a religious community wouldn’t think twice about leaving their kids alone with their local priest. That gives predators an opportunity.

And if the children speak up about the abuse, people in the community will defend the priest. He does all the proper priest stuff like giving to the poor and ministering to the sick, how could he possibly do something as immoral as abusing a child? The kid must be lying. Sure, getting caught would completely destroy the priest’s life and prevent him from even practicing his religion anymore, but the power more than makes up for the risk.

In anti shipping circles, it’s easy to have the outward appearance of morality. You just have to ship the good ships and hate the bad ships. It doesn’t even matter whether you actually ship anything, as long as you demonstrate that morality, people will give you the benefit of the doubt. They assume that you can’t be a predator because a predator would have bad ships. Meanwhile, you can do whatever you want in private messages and nobody else has to see. That’s why it’s so easily exploited, because anti shipping gives predators a mask of morality.

And nobody here supports abuse “between consenting adults”. What does that even mean? Is it about BDSM? Fictional shipping? 

tbh the grossest thing about the anti movement is that it’s basically an unitntentional safe space for actual pedophles, since they can easily go under the radar and pass themselves off as being part of said movement, which of course, can lead to them having easier access to a minor’s trust.

again, a major reason why i call these ppl (ESPECIALLY adult antis) “creeps”

[whogivesa-ship]

Not to get into discourse but something I've noticed a lot about people wanting AO3 censorship is that, when they talk about not wanting the site to host fic that has shit like pedophilia or incest or etc in it, they don't seem to be aware of the fact that most of the time that stuff isn't shown as like. Being Okay.

Like, if you say you want to remove all fic with depictions of child sexual abuse in it, then that would include the fics about a character who was sexually abused as a child living with how that trauma affected them and their path to recovering from it. It would include stories about characters suffering through sexual abuse as children and going on to recover from their trauma and live happy lives as adults.

"But those ones are okay, we just want to get rid of the ones that glorify [x]!" Okay but who gets to decide that? Who gets the authority to look at a fic and read through it and say "this one is allowed to stay but this one gets purged." How graphic of a description of someone's trauma does it have to be before its deemed inappropriate? Any nuanced content ban would be so difficult to enforce that it would be effectively impossible. I could go on and on about this but there have already been countless posts about it and I'm tired.

[whogivesa-ship]

[Image description - Images of the rainbow, trans, intersex, bi, pan, lesbian, aromantic, asexual, nonbinary and queer pride flag with the text: Love yours freak side. End description.]

🌈

Please support me on kofi if you like what I make <3 https://ko-fi.com/samhannes And you can always send in a request if you want! http://queerlection.tumblr.com/ask

[whogivesa-ship]

Hearing you’re a pro-shipper hurts, honestly. As someone who’s been abused, its not ‘harmless’, it romanticizes it often and can be incredibly triggering, especially when there’s no warning (ex: just put in tags, not in the first 5 that determine if it’s filtered through Tumblr) You don’t have to post this, honestly it’s just more getting it out so you might understand where people come from when they say shipping pedophilic/abusive relationships isn’t okay. Thanks for your time and good night

So. I’ve been looking at this ask for a few hours now, trying to decide how I want to approach it.

The thing that gets me, in the end, is that you seem to believe that me being pro-shipping changes the rest of my politics, beliefs, or stances.

But I’m still exactly the same person I was yesterday, before I answered the previous ask about shipping. I’m still a vocal, ardent believer that sex workers of all sorts–including writers and illustrators of erotic fiction–have the right to do our work in peace. I’m still a vocal believer in all labour rights, not just the labour rights of sex workers. I’m still a vocal supporter of the right of queer people to have sex any way they want, and to expression their sexual interests in art freely. I’m still a supporter of women’s right to freedom of sexual expression too.

And all of those beliefs require a foundational assumption: that sex is not a shameful things by nature.

Like anything, it can be used to hurt others. I know that all too well. I was a man’s personal sexual slave for most of my early adolescence.

But then, I have also been hurt by many things that are not sex. By racial discrimination, by anti-queer bigotry, by the belief that autistic and chronically ill people are subhuman and deserve to be eradicated from the human population and gene pool.

And in all of these cases, the common factor for what hurt me was not the act of being disabled, or brown, or queer, or sexual.

It was other people rejecting my right to express those aspects of my self. My right to exist openly along those marginalizations.

The fundamental difference between the pro-shipping and anti-shipping stances is that pro-shippers want greater freedom of expression, and anti-shippers want lesser freedom of expression.

That thing you mention, about tagging fiction so that it can be found and avoided?

That’s a pro-shipper concept. Shippers came up with it, and shippers enforce it.

However, in recent years, people have been tagging less and less, and with less and less detail. Because tags are no longer seen as a neutral tool to help people avoid or seek out particular kinds of content.

They’re seen as an act of support for the thing tagged.

Once upon a time, tagging a piece of fiction as #rape was not a seen as a statement about the morality of rape. It was merely a fact. “This story contains rape.“ People seeking out content about rape would know it was there, and people seeking to avoid content about rape would know it as well.

Now, specifically because of the anti-shipping mentality, tags are seen as condoning something. A story tagged as #rape is now often interpreted as being, “this story claims rape is a good and positive thing.” This leads to harassment, abuse, threats of violence, and even actual physical violence against artists (content warning: graphic images), sometimes requiring hospitalization. The worst case scenario for these kinds of harassment involve artists–sometimes underage artists, even–being driven to suicide.

Why would you tag your story as containing rape, if it could lead to a level of violence that makes suicide seem like the better option?

It’s no longer a safe, morally neutral statement. It’s an invitation for harm.

So people have slowly but surely stopped tagging.

And that means more people who want to avoid fiction about rape are exposed to it instead.

But this is not the fault of the artists, making the rational choice to protect their own welfare.

It is the fault of the people making the threats that have caused thorough tagging to be unsafe.

If you want people to tag more completely, then that’s a pro-shipping stance.

It’s only an anti-shipping stance if you want people to stop writing entirely. And the most common expression anti-shippers have, when they want people to stop, rather than to make ourselves avoidable, is violence.

You seem to think that my being pro-shipping is somehow a deviation from the rest of my politics and my beliefs.

It is not.

Supporting freedom of expression is one of my foundational tenets. It’s not axiomatic to my politics, but it’s very close.

And supporting shipping is supporting freedom of expression.

Supporting shipping is supporting the freedom to avoid others’ expressions, too.

it is anti-shipping that leads, inexorably, to the destruction of safe places for survivors who want or need to avoid triggering content to relax in peace.

And it is pro-shipping that leads, eventually and albeit with stutters and stumbles, to the creation of those spaces.

[whogivesa-ship]

So... uh... same.

not knowing how to respond to messages and forgetting about them for so long that it becomes impossible to respond to them without it being weird is the bane of my socially awkward existence

[whogivesa-ship]

This logic doesn’t apply to the real world. It’s specifically about fiction. Think about it this way: I like writing horror. Maybe I write a story about teenagers being graphically murdered at a summer camp. Does that make me a real murderer? Does it mean I would support a real summer camp murder spree? Does it mean I’d want to watch footage of real teens being actually murdered? No, my worst crime is ripping off Friday the 13th. The logic I used to justify writing the story (it would be an interesting and thrilling horror story) doesn’t apply to the real world. It was never meant to.

Fiction and reality have different rules. In fiction, characters are little more than toys to play with. In reality, people have inner lives and inherent worth and a million reasons why you shouldn’t hurt them. I can both enjoy Friday the 13th and be horrified by the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. Why? Because different logic applies to fiction and reality. If you can’t see that, you’re being willfully ignorant.

And nobody in this thread wants you to kill yourself, they just want you to stop claiming they’re okay with really awful crimes against children. Please stay alive, you have inherent worth and dignity as a sentient being.

ship whatever you want

literally whatever! any ship! all ships! there are no exceptions to this!!

[whogivesa-ship]

You’re right, those relationships are bad in real life. However, OP is talking about shipping, which is a collaborative storytelling activity where fans imagine two or more fictional characters in a relationship. It’s a common feature in transformative fandom and has nothing to do with actual people getting into actual relationships. Obviously child molestation, abusive relationships, and incest are all bad things. Everybody knows that. But in fiction, nobody gets hurt. So reasons why something is bad irl don’t apply when you’re talking about fiction. We can tell stories about serial killers and gang violence and piracy on the high seas and that’s perfectly fine. Shipping is the same way, just more focused on relationships.

ship whatever you want

literally whatever! any ship! all ships! there are no exceptions to this!!

[whogivesa-ship]

If you’re a problematic shipper who tells antis to die, or wish harm on antis, I want to present you with 🚪 the door off of my blog.

We do not wish death, physical or emotional harm on people in my house. No, not even antis.

[whogivesa-ship]

The problem is there’s no wiggle room in statements like this when there really should be. Think about it. Abuse happens in cycles and survivors of abuse report “honeymoon periods” where the relationship was pleasant. It’s a common tactic that abusers can use to elicit feelings of genuine love from their victims. Is it wrong if a survivor writes about a honeymoon period or how they continue to feel love towards their abuser despite the abuse? Some survivors also get benefits from writing about their abuse as something they can control, even something pleasant under certain circumstances. Is that wrong too? There’s no clear definition for what “in a positive light” means. Is it writing a predator readers can empathize with like Humbert Humbert in Lolita? Even if that’s meant to help readers realize predators are fellow humans and therefore their friends and loved ones may also be capable of abuse? What if a writer is just plain incompetent and stumbles into what could be read as a positive portrayal? It happens, especially with young or otherwise inexperienced writers. Should they be condemned as promoting the normalization of pedophilia for an honest mistake?

The bottom line is, fiction is a world of nuance. Black and white rules don’t do anything except censor creators, especially marginalized ones who are particularly vulnerable to censorship.

“It’s ok to enjoy dark fiction!” Yeah!

“So it’s fine to portray pedophillia in a positive light and post it publically in a place where it could be used to normalize pedophillia!” NO!

[whogivesa-ship]

Wrathful-rita also has “pro ship” and “anti anti” in their bio, so my followers should block even if they don’t talk about abortion. We don’t want people like this in our community. Death threats are NEVER okay.

[whogivesa-ship]

Is it just me or is it kinda shitty to say stuff like “you’re infected with brain fungus” or “wow op, your brain is broken”? There’s nothing bad about having a brain injury or intellectual disability. You can call someone stupid, but it’s way more effective to call them willfully stupid. Some people CHOOSE to be stupid by ignoring facts and refusing to consider that their kneejerk response might be wrong. That’s something to be ashamed of, not a brain injury you can’t control.

[whogivesa-ship]

People in the notes are just proving op’s point. Irl nobody cares about pictures of anime teens. You all are upset over really petty stuff. Please take a break from online fandom and reevaluate your priorities.

the stuff some of y’all find problematic makes me wonder if y’all ever go outside and interact with actual people

[whogivesa-ship]

I guess we’re open for business

So who are we? We are, as the sidebar says, a judgement free anon confession zone for your problematic ships, headcanons, favourite fanfiction kinks, et al. Canon or OC, adult content or pure fluff nonsense, as long as it’s about fiction we’re here for you.

[whogivesa-ship]

The best/worst part is how I’ve reblogged the thread from those radfems multiple times and none of them have come after me at all. The most I’ve gotten is one person with a very short and unemotional response. Gee, I wonder if this is actually about controlling women’s sexualities and a man talking about kink doesn’t give them the same kneejerk misogynistic disgust.

So in the past 24 hours, radfems have:

Told me I should have been beaten more as a child

Told me I've never experienced love

Belittled my academic achievements and expertise, despite the fact that I'm a disabled wlw (which makes academic achievement that much harder)

Used sexual insults against me

Deliberately misgendered me (and I'm a cis woman!)

Derided me for being neurodivergent and called me a nutcase

Used other ableist insults against me

Repeatedly told me to seek therapy because I'm "crazy"

Dismissed my experiences as a bisexual woman

Accused me of enabling p*dophelia and murder

All this, because I used one word: kinkphobia. I've gotten all that hate for using a single word, in a post that wasn't even initially about kink.

And y'all want women to join you? You think you're protecting women? Because you've just spent hours insulting and belittling a disabled queer abuse survivor who is supposed to be one of the women you want to help. All because she disagrees with you about kink. That's all. That's all it took for me to get y'all telling me that I straight up deserved to be abused as a child, or that my neurodivergence makes me crazy.

This is how y'all love women? And y'all think kink is abusive, when you're behaving this way towards the very people you claim to love?

Radfems are a joke.

[whogivesa-ship]

Hi, sadist here. There’s a difference between sexual sadism and sexual sadism disorder. That difference is consent. When sadism is acted out on a nonconsenting person, it becomes a medical diagnosis. Otherwise it’s considered healthy and even common.

Like honestly it is so important that people stop associating radfem solely with TERFs because it blinds y'all to how insidious, pervasive, and dangerous radfem rhetoric is.

Are radfems transphobic? Yes. But that's not all they are.

Radfem rhetoric is behind a lot of the queerphobia, biphobia, aphobia, panphobia, kinkphobia, polyphobia and sex negativity in general on this site. Their rhetoric is woven intrinsically into kink criticism and exclusionist ideology. But because it doesn't have "trans people are evil" on the tin, y'all are swallowing those pills wholesale without giving it a second thought.

And then, because "radfem" has come to mean "TERF" on this site, when people point out to you that you're parroting radfem rhetoric, you're able to easily dismiss it by saying "How dare you call me transphobic!"

My friends. Transphobia is not the only dogwhistle radfems use. It is not the only pillar of their toxic belief system.

Familiarise yourself with all their beliefs. Think critically about all of them.

If you don't want to be called out on spreading radfem ideology, make sure your ideals aren't borrowing from the more subtle and less overtly disagreeable aspects of their belief system.