yossipossi

[yossipossi]

This is one those quotes that is going to transcend it’s source materiel, especially with what’s going on now. Fuck.

[yossipossi]

SCP 8980

So, something I'm into that I haven't talked about before is the SCP Foundation. I'm by no means an expert, but I've read my fair share of entries and it's been something I periodically forget about and later get back into. The writing quality varies widely, as is inevitable with any collective writing platform, and the wide range in tone/themes means it's inherently hit or miss just in terms of personal tastes, but sometimes it really scratches that itch for "compelling, original, pleasantly unsettling mindscrew horror/mystery".

And then, a week ago, I came across SCP 8980.

That was... something else. One of the most harrowing reading experiences that completely Broke Me emotionally and kept haunting me for days and nights afterwards. It took talking it over with a bunch of friends and even reaching out to the author (thanks again @yossipossi for the kind reply!) to start processing all these feelings.

I'm mostly over it now, and was just about ready to move on, but then I thought I should actually give this a proper review. Now that the visceral shock of it has subsided, I'm realizing that a work compelling enough to have that kind of impact on me (and, judging by its rating, to many others) deserves a proper analysis. I've really been meaning to write more reviews on here (God I really gotta gather my thoughts about the TLT books and Disco Elysium some day) so since this is fresh in my mind, it seems like the right place to start.

Before I get into it, though, a word of caution. This story deals with serious issues and it deals with them with a degree of realism and groundedness that I've never seen in an SCP entry before. There's a content warning at the top of the page and if any of it sounds like something that might disturb you, it WILL. I still regret not taking them more seriously and if you don't want to make the same mistake, I will directly copy-paste the specific themes mentioned in the warning:

• Explicit and Implicit Misogyny • Prolonged Institutional and Psychological Abuse • Severe Psychological Trauma and Torture • Institutional and Personal Gaslighting • Physical, Clinical, and Institutional Violence • Institutional Neglect and Prolonged Isolation • Sexual Assault Implications and Analogies • Forced Drug Injection/Abuse • Mentions of Sexual Acts and Suicide

All right. With all that said, let's talk about it.

So. SCP 8980 is not about an eldritch cosmic deity or a gross unstoppable flesh plague or a mind-bending cognitohazard. It's about a very real, all too human kind of evil. The SCP Foundation and the search for anomalies provides the setting for it, but it's easy enough to think of real-life settings where the same dynamics could manifest (psychiatric institutions is the one that jumps to mind the most). People like Dr. Byrnes exist. They walk among us. They're someone's boss, someone's doctor, someone's husband, someone's father. To me, that's the core of why makes this story so terrifying one a conceptual level. Sure, supernatural horror can be seriously disturbing, but at the end of the day, it's not real so it can't hurt us. Scifi horror takes it a step further when it's based on a technology that could theoretically exist, perhaps one we're close to actually inventing (hence the Torment Nexus memes) but still, it's not actually real. But there's no such escape here. What happened to Lilian can happen (has happened) to real people, and this is the most horrific thought you're left with when you finish reading.

That's the concept, but a concept only lives and dies by its execution. There is a lot that can be said about the brilliance of SCP 8980's technical execution. Like all the best SCPs, it makes full use of the central conceit that what we're reading is a set of official documentation compiled for internal use by a highly structured organization. It does so in a very unique way though, which subverts the implicit objectivity we're naturally inclined to ascribe such documents. Just because it's all typed out neatly on a document with an official header and full of technical lingo doesn't make it immune from human biases and deliberate deception - quite the contrary, it provides a particularly effective venue for it. We are clued in from the start that something is wrong: the document is under review by the Ethics Committee, and is riddled with annotations pointing out inaccuracies, improper terminology, missing information, etc. It still takes active reading to figure out what all these "errors" add up too, however - to realize that they're part of a consistent effort by Byrnes to cover his tracks. Even if that eventually becomes obvious, giving the reader the tools to understand that in advance is something I really appreciated, and it helps build up a looming sense of dread as you keep reading (also, building up distrust for the written record incites the reader to also take a critical eye on the Ethics Committee itself, as we can't take their perspective as infallible either).

The same is true for Byrnes' behavior in general. There's almost immediately something off about him, the strangely casual way he's approaching the situation, the frequent laughs and chuckles, the waving off of any concern Lilian expresses. And of course if you've read the content warnings you know where this is going. But it's still subtle enough that I still had trouble fully processing the gravity of the situation until a while in. Sure, he's clearly a misogynistic asshole (it's interesting that even the Ethics Committee reviewer didn't flag repeated descriptions of Lilian as "emotional" and "hysterical", which were the most obvious red flags to me), but it seemed casual enough not to be a direct threat, and besides, there are rules and other people working on the case, so there's still hope, right? Right?? We get to watch alongside Lilian as that hope gets repeatedly snuffed out, and everything gets worse and worse. The most shocking thing was realizing the complete disinterest of her former coworkers, who seem to have washed their hands of this case completely and are just happy to leave it to Barnes. That's ultimately one of the most shocking and sickening elements of this story: the complete indifference of people who knew Lilian and had reasons to care about her wellbeing, but clearly didn't.

Then, add to that a further layer of institutional indifference and complicity, where the guardrails that supposedly exist to prevent these failures are shown time and time again to be unable or unwilling to step in. The system doesn't know what's going on here, and even if it did, it probably wouldn't care. This carries over all the way to the end, where Lilian is given a meager symbolic compensation and all institutional changes proposed to avoid these issues are shot down by the Foundation's hierarchy. This was probably the hardest part for me to swallow. There was a tendency in a lot of early SCPs to make the Foundation cartoonishly evil, engaging in all sorts of nightmarish experiments seemingly just for funsies. This was corrected in a lot of latter entries to show that the Foundation serves a necessary purpose, and while its actions may be ethically questionable, they do makes sense from the standpoint of their single-minded focus on this purpose. SCP 8980 I think adds an important new step to that dialectic, which is to point out how that single-minded focus can provide opportunities for people with less noble motives to abuse the existing structure for their own goals. As long as these goals don't interfere, or even superficially align with the Foundation's mission, there will be no serious effort to stop them. This is unfortunately all too common in real-life power structures, and it's especially depressing when all attempts at reform prove futile. Complex bureaucratic organizations are an absolute necessity in the modern world, and I do believe in their power to be forces for good. But stories like this remind me that they can also enable new forms of evil that are particularly hard to root out.

Anyway, things keep getting worse, and eventually it becomes clear that Lilian is trapped. At the mercy of a former coworker who resented her for being better at his job despite being younger and a woman. There is no end in sight, and all her efforts to break out are dashed. I think it will be different for everyone where the exact despair event horizon was. Personally, being inclined to trust institutions and thankfully unfamiliar with a sort of abuse, I had some naive hope she could still get out of this if she played her cards right. I couldn't help feel frustrated when she tried to escape, since I figured this would make it so much harder for her to plead her case in the future. A female friend of mine who had experienced some similar (albeit less extreme) forms of that abuse, was frustrated that she didn't try to kill Byrnes earlier. Ultimately though, trying to game out what Lilian "should" have done misses the point, and could easily turn into victim blaming if we're not careful. At the end of the day, Lilian tried everything she could, putting all her considerable skills and determination into it, and it still wasn't enough. Because she was alone, and no one believed her or cared about her. That's ultimately the point of the story.

I don't have much to say about the amnesticization scene and Byrnes' final interview with Lilian afterwards. Those were the hardest parts to read, and I've seen other people discuss how effective they are at conveying the utter horror and despair of it all. It hurts just to think about it for too long. One thing I want to draw attention too, though, is the way the passage of time is effectively used to convey the horror and despair throughout the article. Early in the article, Lilian is described as 28 years old, with the Ethics Committee annotation remarking that this should have been updated as she's currently 40. This is the first time I felt genuine dread reading it, as I considered what might have happened in the intervening time. Early in Lilian's containment, we see the first few weeks pass by, and her good spirits start to erode as there's no sign of progress in figuring out her "anomaly". Already this story makes you feel the weight of those weeks. Then the weeks turn to months, and the toll they take is described in vivid detail. Byrnes' monologue at the end is bone-chilling throughout, but the way he caps it off by wishing Lilian a "happy first year anniversary"... that really brings the full scale of her torment into focus. In the end, she spent nearly 10 years in his clutches. It's very easy for a story to fail at conveying the feeling of long-term captivity - what it actually means to have years of your life taken away from you - but this story captured it perfectly.

Byrnes never facing any punishment for his crimes adds another layer of rage and disgust to the experience. It seems everyone who's read this entry has come up with their own personal torment they'd like to inflict on him - which is fair honestly. At the end of the day though, it is important to the story that vengeance is not an option here. The Byrnes who did these things to Lilian no longer exists (although the Byrnes who still exists post-amnesticization is still probably a misogynistic asshole and there's a real fear than he might go on to hurt other women in his life post-retirement). Lilian, meanwhile, has to deal with the consequences of his abuse, and probably will have for the rest of her life. The last document shows her new caretaker (one of the same former colleague who had turned a blind eye to her abuse all these years), overwhelmed by the burden of caring for her without the adequate resources and experience required, expressing frustration at having to deal with "that psychotic woman". A final, cruel twist of the knife showing us that Lilian's dehumanization isn't over just because her captivity is.

As a rule, I don't like downer endings. I think reality is depressing enough as it is, and fiction should ideally point the way toward something at least a little better. The bar is very high for a downer ending to justify itself narratively, thematically and conceptually. SCP 8980 unquestionably passes that bar. Plenty of SCP entries describe abuse more horrific that what Lilian went through, but only do so for the sake of edgy shock value. There's no such thing here: the story is fully aware of the seriousness of what it represents. It pulls no punches, but it never does anything gratuitously either. A time-honored purpose of fiction is also to shine a light on a reality we're trying to ignore. SCP 8980 fulfills this purpose flawlessly. While it's very hard for me to like it, it's impossible for me not to respect it.

If you're like me and really need some degree of closure, though, the end of the article links up to SCP 7777, by the same author, which show people in the Foundation taking it upon themselves to root out the institutional rot within it. The author has also suggested that Lilian will eventually find a more supportive environment and begin to recover. I dearly hope they write that story some day. Anyway, I've rambled long enough, so it's probably time to wrap it up. Again, one of the most compelling horror stories I've ever come across, and if you can stomach the themes it handles, I strongly recommend it.

[yossipossi]

“oooh i need junji ito to write me an essay” okay so youre a little baby so youre a little baby waby who needs mommys help

[yossipossi]

My take on the recent Limbus Company drama.

[yossipossi]

Hi. I hope you're not sick of getting asks about SCP 8980 (if so, feel free to ignore) but I wanted to let you know that it has affected me in a way very few works of fiction have. I was physically shaking when I got to the amnesticization scene, and it only got worse as I kept reading. By the time I finished reading, I felt a mix of dread, horror, rage and nausea that still haven't fully subsided several days later. I still have trouble sleeping. I keep thinking about Lilian and everything she went through, and the sinking realization that similar things have happened to real people countless times. Part of me wishes I'd never come across this SCP (or that I'd heeded the content warnings), but I know it's ultimately for the best that I read it, because stories like this need to be told if we want things to change.

I've never experienced or directly witnessed any abuse of the kind described in the story, but reading it raised the dreadful possibility that I might have, at some point in my life, been like one of the many people who looked the other way. I'll never know for sure, but hopefully this will inspire me to be all the more vigilant in the future. It also spoke to my discomfort with my own gender, which I have trouble identifying with when I have to share it with the likes of Dr. Byrnes.

All this is to say that you are an amazing writer, and I deeply admire your strength for tackling something so personal to you in such an uncompromising way.

If you don't mind, there are a couple questions that came to mind while reading it that I'd love to have your thoughts on:

1. About the concept that Byrnes erased (I know you don't want to reveal what it was and I totally respect the artistic choice). Am I right in thinking Lilian could reacquire the concept if put into a supportive environment? My logic is that amnestics can erase memories, but can't permanently remove cognitive faculties. So if Byrnes took away, say, her self-worth, she could recover it after spending time with people who respect and value her? Of course it's going to be a long and difficult process, but I'd like to know there's hope (especially once she's moved away from Site 17 following the 7777 events).

2. How do you feel about the ethics of punishing Byrnes when he's forgotten everything he did? Of course the ideal solution here would be to administer him mnestics, but I'm sure the Foundation would consider it a waste of resources... So barring that, what do you think should be done with him? It's a really tough question for me, since on the one hand, there is something dystopian about being punished for crimes you can't remember (there's a whole Black Mirror episode about it!) but on the other hand, there's a good chance his abusive tendencies have survived amnesticization and he might hurt others in the future. (I'm also aware that Byrnes is ultimately secondary to the systemic failures that allowed him to get away with it and still prevent any meaningful changes, but I'm still curious).

3. Finally, is there a directory where I can find the rest of your work in the SCP universe? I've read 8980 and 7777 and I'd love to read more of your writing (although if you've written anything as dark as 8980 I'll have to pass lmao).

Again congratulations on a truly impressive work, and thanks for reading through this very long ask!

I'm never disappointed to get a nice message about 8980, so there's no reason to fear. I am very happy the article had such a tremendous and positive impact on you.

Regarding your point on trouble identifying with your gender because of people like Byrnes, it is a very common feeling for those who know what atrocities men can and often do commit. It's something that eventually you will come to terms with after much self-reflection. Regardless, as you mention yourself, it is essential for men to embody the positive aspects of masculinity and use the privilege society affords them to help others. As it says in the ancient text Pirkei Avot, "In a place where there are no [good] men, strive to be a [good] man."

To answer your individual questions:

1. Your assessment of how amnestics work is — at least in 8980's continuity — fully accurate. As the amnestics only dissolve targeted engrams, concept-related engrams could be theoretically reacquired in the correct environment.

2. This is a question with no true answer. As you mention yourself, either option results in an injustice of some form. However, under the assumption that Byrnes's abusive and misogynistic tendencies have survived amnesticization, I would believe it to be more ethical to — in some capacity — restrain his movements to prevent him from inflicting further suffering on others.

You mention Black Mirror in your question, and I would like to follow up with that offhand reference with another: Severance. I have recently finished watching it myself, and believe it would be insightful for you if you choose to delve into topics of identity, memory, and culpability.

3. There is indeed; you may find it here:

Do be aware, however, that a majority of my articles are not of the same quality of 8980/7777, nor are most in a similar genre. Regardless, I hope you enjoy my past works, and feel free to send me more asks in the future if you have questions about those.

Thank you once again for the kind words, and I hope you have a pleasant day.

[yossipossi]

*to ethics board* well im sorry you feel that way (lie detector attached to me starts blaring) but i thought my experiments were benefitting humanity (lie detector has started incorporating subtle amen breaks)

[yossipossi]

i forgor to post here again oops

[yossipossi]

SCP-8980

Every so often you just need to read something that makes you angry. Like, something so completely, totally unfair that it burns an impression into your soul.

I really like the SCP Foundation as a concept. I don't usually delve too deeply into the lore (I tried reading them by numerical value once, but that turned out to be quite tedious) but things like Warehouse 13 and The Lost Room scratch an itch of the unexplainable and the inexplicable. Even a regular SCP entry is fun to read because of the creative exercise of government bureaucracy.

It's very rare that you're reminded that said bureaucracy can be used as a maze for predators, and worse.

The article is about SCP-8980, a neutralized SCP whose treatment is being investigated by the Ehics Committee. She It shows signs of causing technology around her it to malfunction in ways that ruin her its life. But this turns cruel when Christopher Byrnes, the researcher and one who called for the containment in the first place, goes far beyond what is necessary to contain SCP-8980, with the bulk of the article taking place years after he has retired and had his memory wiped.

It's a gut-wrenching, unfortunately-verisimilitudinous story about those with power using it to abuse those they are responsible for. The fact the last section is just an email is one of the more chilling aspects of this report, and I feel like I need to go stare at a wall for a few hours.

It does turn out to be a prequel of sorts, which I will include below as well.

SCP-7777

I think these two stories are a pair having a conversation. Although SCP-8980 is more thorough, the possibilities explored in SCP-7777 provide us some light on how the Ethics Committee could work. At the very least, it's an entertaining read about how abuses of power come to light, and if nothing else there's a little satisfaction in that.

[yossipossi]

“Seen a lot of people talk about this SCP. Looks cool.” I said. “I’m pretty desensitized to horror and fucked up shit at this point. Can’t be that bad.” I said…

Spoiler alert: It wasn’t that bad. It was actually way fucking worse than I could have ever imagined.

[yossipossi]

Yossi, it’s been months and I still haven’t met a character that has roused the same level of passive “rip out throat with teeth” emotions as Byrnes. I can’t think about the numbers 8980 without ping-ponging between “Get Lillian an anomalous coping mechanism or Actual Therapist” and “Unholy violence”

How the fuck?

Glad it stuck with you :) All I'll say more on this matter is that writing the story was very very challenging both technically and emotionally. Took all my years of experience to achieve the final result of 8980.

[yossipossi]

Continuation of the SCP 8980 and 4051 birthdays drawing. Lillian slamming the cake into Christopher Byrnes face, while Rainer's chilling.

Realized it would've been greater if I had made this but with Thomas Graham because he had harmed both of them by allowing those in charge of them to continue their abuse

[yossipossi]

groverhaus of leaves

[yossipossi]

[yossipossi]

Winter has arrived on Poob.

Start your 7 day free trial of Poob today, and watch smash hit Martin Scorcese's Goncharov.

[yossipossi]

PLAY LIMBUS COMPANY SOMEONE PLEASE ANYONE CAN ANYONE HEAR ME

other powerpoints ive made

My UID: E345207387

[yossipossi]