zenodreemurr

[zenodreemurr]

A good enough criticism of Alphyne as a ship. I don't like Alphyne due to its writing, and this goes more into detail about it.

I just agree so much with this, it's incredible.

Oooh, how about Alphyne for the ship meme? :D

Send me a ship and i’ll rate it

vomit / don’t ship / ok / cute / adorable / sexy / perfect / beyond flawless/ hot damn / screaming and crying / i will ship them in hell

Alphyne and I have a complicated relationship! I’ll definitely reblog it when I see artwork of the ship, and overall I have pretty positive feelings when I hear the name of the ship. :))) Artwork of Alphyne can be pretty stinking cute and adorable… not to mention that moment in the credits where Undyne kisses Alphys and the lizard turns bright red. And it’s great in the game to hear all the cute nothings they do, such as making a giant sword together, or buying the drinks the other likes, or what have you. That’s good stuff! XD XD XD

At the same time, I also recognize the inherent problems of Alphyne’s relationship. It’s a relationship that doesn’t have the most grounding. Alphys lied to Undyne while they were getting to know one another. While Undyne said that all she cared about was being with someone who is passionate, it’s still a good point to bring up that their attraction to one another started in deceit. The relationship also has a very juvenile crush-like feel to it, with both of them completely incapable of expressing their love to one another like they’re ten or fifteen years younger than they actually are. They’re just starting to get to know one another, really, and the relationship doesn’t have the same sort of deep and endearing grounding that Undyne and Papyrus’ friendship has. Alphyne doesn’t have a stable foundation. Combine that with the fact Alphys and Undyne really don’t have much in common either interest-wise or personality-wise, and it makes me feel like this isn’t going to be a romance that lasts.

I even thought that Alphyne came out of left field the first time I played UT. While there are very subtle hints of Alphys and Undyne liking each other prior to the Alphys date… it’s so subtle that it’s not really good foreshadowing. It just suddenly seems to be thrown in there at the end of the Pacifist Ending. The concept of Alphyne is good, but I don’t think the execution was flawless.

So yeah! Complicated relationship with Alphyne. It’s a ship of the type that usually doesn’t interest me, because I feel like the nerd being coupled with the jock doesn’t account for common interests or personality matches. It’s a ship that doesn’t have the best writing or basis for growth. But I do think that there’s a reason Alphyne is a popular and well-liked ship in the UT fandom world… there is something about the relationship that resonates in us and gets us to smile! And so Alphyne will get me to smile too. :)

[zenodreemurr]

Red is NOT the true color of Determination? An investigation about Undertale lore (Part 4)

Greetings everyone. Welcome to the fourth and final part of my investigation about Undertale lore. If, by any chance, this is the first part you stumble upon, here's a summary of what is happening. These posts are a full-on investigation about the color of Determination and how it may not be red. During the last part, I've shown how common red is in Undertale, and how not everything may be related to Determination, with some more detailed explanations.

Each part of this investigation, due to the full one being too long and to stay consistent with the separation of the parts of the investigation, is its own Tumblr post. It is recommended to read them in order. This post, especially, will talk a lot about the previous parts. Here are PART 1, PART 2, PART 3 Unlike the other parts, this one delves more into theory content that I'll try to argue for and against. I will try to find another possible color than red for Determination, assuming it has any. I will not be talking about any other Determination color theory, since it would be too long. Also, I haven't invented this theory. What color could Determination be? Well, before even answering that question, it will be very important to give one base. The most determined being in the Underground is the one that can SAVE, LOAD, and RESET. Sounds obvious, doesn't it? Do you even remember where it's confirmed? Well here it is:

Yes, Flowey's backstory. This is where it's confirmed. The confirmations that Determination is related to SAVEs, LOADs, and RESETs will be important later. Now what is the color I want to talk about? Well it's gold. It's probably not the first time you hear of it, but I'll try to push it a little further. Now I will be honest. Gold is a shade of yellow in terms of coloring. The difference between yellow text and gold text is not that easy to see. And I'm not the best at recognizing shades. However, that difference, after looking, it seems to me that it actually exists. But still, let's talk about things that are either yellow or specifically gold, and not justice-related. First of all, let's see what appeared with yellow or gold on the images sent on the previous parts (besides those that will be relevant later). Don't forget that multiple shades of yellow appear throughout these screenshots. The list is: -Frisk's skin -Monster Kid's sprite -The doors to the Snowed Inn and the Snowdin Shop -The cheese -The health bar -The encounter buttons when you're on them -The WARNING text during the Flowey fight -The yellow key Some are obviously yellow just because they're associated with that color (cheese, yellow key), and other ere most likely random design choices (Monster Kid, Alphys, Frisk's skin, the doors). The rest may have a meaning. Now there is actual text that may be actually intended to be gold. Like red and white, gold text seems to appear quite a bit in Undertale, though less commonly than both of them.

Papyrus actually uses gold text. I will not talk about the special attack specifically and reunite all of the texts since they seem to be gold all for the same reason. Those are cases of two things we've seen in part 3 as red for importance being colored as gold for importance. This is a flaw with my theory, since gold is not exclusive to Determination, like I made you understood red was. However, stick with me, I will explain why gold specifically later. Before that, I would like to talk about one special text in particular.

The spare names are stated as yellow by this Froggit. They can also be made pink. And while they're as such unrelated to gold by text confirmation, I think it is important enough to be talked about. Also, due to this, I will affiliate special credits texts if you spared enemies with yellow instead of gold, though the rest I will not try to assume anything. Now why am I talking about gold being related to Determination since the beginning of this post? Well there are three reasons for that.

This is the first reason. Entry 5 of the True Lab. What's interesting in here is that it's the only color we see used for Determination (as far as I've investigated, and there's plenty of images I haven't shown just because I can't post more than thirty images per post). It's also the only colored text of all of the entries, interestingly enough. Of course, this may denote importance, but this is the only time (again, as far as I've found) where it's colored, much unlike Papyrus's special attack or Asgore. So it is less likely and it could have the specific importance. But still, unlike red, it works for other reasons. Let's talk about the next.

The second reason is obviously the SAVE points. This is not the most clear image, but we can see enough of the SAVE point to see its color. I also added the text color after you SAVE, which is the exact same. Not red, not white, not any other color, but gold. That is not all though.

When Flowey SAVES during his fight (though, interestingly, not while he LOADS), the text is also gold. As such, SAVing specifically is actually associated with that color, as it can be seen during this fight and while you SAVE yourself.

Even the Continue/Reset/True Reset menu shows the options as gold. While other actions you do show themselves as gold, the SAVE-related ones are particularly consistent when it comes to coloring. Anyways, let's get to the third reason. And it's pretty simple.

It's Flowey. Just... Flowey. This is the very reason I actually talk about gold. Flowey, himself, is stated (body-wise) to be a golden flower. I've proven in part 3 that colors may not be chosen without a specific meaning to them. Flowey is the only person other than Frisk to have this ability at any moment, and while there's a lot of green on Flowey, it's due to his flower state. Again, remember that Toby Fox took the time to give colors meanings, especially if it's important stuff. A golden flower is a very specific choice, implying it has its meaning. And due to Flowey's nature (revived out of determination, player-like being), it's easy to assume that this color was chosen due to his ability, especially when the SAVing text shows as gold even when he uses it. This is speculation, of course, but this is a theory moment mostly, and this is argumented speculation at least. I consider it highly likely, not an actual fact. I would only consider it a fact if Toby confirmed it. Also there's the gold text on the image, which against shows Flowey being gold, except this time... well... in text. Conclusion and special thanks This conclusion is not a summary of everything you can read in the four parts. It's just to separate the main content of the post from the rest. Anyways, if you appreciated these posts, I am happy. If you haven't read it all, I'll understand. It's a bit long. I tried my best in this part to create a good theory, but also to make you see I can see the flaws in my own beliefs. I totally assume I haven't shown everything. I just tried to show everything relevant enough I found. I would have shown more if not for the image limit I've talked a few times about. Now for the special thanks. I'd like to thank Afewbitsandpieces for the Undertale Text Project, which helped me a lot for my research and getting these screenshots. Without this person, these posts wouldn't have been possible. I'd like to thank Alphasaith for making me realize that the idea of the red SOUL being a Determination one wasn't canon, both directly and indirectly, and as such, making me indirectly realize about how many headcanons, interpretations of Undertale lore, and common beliefs that are seen as surface knowledge of Undertale were actually invented by the fans. Also because he's the one one that got me inspired to look up on gold. And to finish, I'd like to thank Error404SansFR for actually giving me the guts to make these posts. Oh, and of course, have good times you all.

[zenodreemurr]

Red is NOT the true color of Determination? An investigation about Undertale lore (Part 3)

Greetings everyone. This is part three of my investigation of Undertale lore.

If, by any chance, this is the first part you stumble upon, here's a summary of what is happening. These posts are a full-on investigation about the color of Determination and how it may not be red. During the last part, I talked about the kind of well-known origin of SOUL names, as well as the relation of the red SOUL with this. Each part of this investigation, due to the full one being too long and to stay consistent with the separation of the parts of the investigation, is its own Tumblr post. It is recommended to read them in order. Here are PART 1, PART 2, PART 4 During the two last parts, it was proven that the appearance of red is more common that one would believe . This part will delve into this specific aspect of the investigation, since red is more present that it's said most of the time by fans. Analyses of the possible significances of red throughout the game and lack of red in specific situations related to Determination As I've stated before, red appears many, many times throughout the games, and each time people argue that it is related to Determination, yet, while some meanings are unclear, others are and are unrelated to Determination. People also tend to believe that red appears quite rarely, yet it is not the case. In fact, let me show you how you see it throughout the entire game.

While I had to take an Asgore genocide encounter to show it (since attacks aren't shown in the screenshots of the Undertale Text Project), all of your attacks throughout the game as well as all damage you see the Monsters taking are shown in red. Yet that is not the only time red appears. There are many other times. And since I have shown Asgore, let me show you one thing you known and one detail most people most to never notice.

Most people talk about how Asgore's trident is red. Now there may be an explanation for this. In popular culture, the Devil tends to be often represented as red, especially if its intended to be seen through child eyes. While not the only color commonly seen, and while the relation may not seem obvious, goats are, for Christians, related to Demons, and even more specifically, the Devil. Asgore's design in combat is made to look like the Devil, and the addition of red to the trident may be an aesthetic addition to help thinking such a thing. But that is not all. Do you see the red on the background? You know, at the bottom of the image. Most people do not see it, yet it exists. It's there. While I may be a bit too confident into what I'm saying, this looks like droplets of blood, possibly referencing the children that are dead, before Frisk. However, for it to work better, we need to assume that Asgore has killed them all, which, while it's very likely due to numerous texts, stays unconfirmed (or I haven't found it, hence why I take the time to talk about it). As such, red, on this image, could actually represent murder or evildoings, since red is also seen, to an extent, as a color of evil. The theme of murder isnearly omnipresent when it comes to Asgore. Even Dreemurr is an anagram of "Murderer", showing the omnipresence of the theme. There's also another thing.

Asgore is referred to in red text at least twice throughout the game (that I found). This more than likely signifies importance (which red may do other time, as seen with Chara's red texts) and no more. Also of course there is red in the background, most likely for the scenery, which is an aesthetic choice. In fact, it is not the only case of red being related to importance.

This is another case of using red to make something look important. The special attack is talked throughout Papyrus's fight, and even the way he talks about it makes it sound important. Now that we've talked about the red related to importance and to Asgore, let's go to other appearances that I know of.

Multiple instances of red can be seen throughout the Flowey fight in the Neutral route. First of all, while it applies to all fights, all lost HP is represented in red. Also, you can see some red on Flowey's design. Whether it is the red eyes on the television screen or the thorns on his body, it seems to be made to terrify the player. This boss is known to have scared many persons after all. Not only that, but when the warning appears, it appears in red. Of course this is a classical warning choice. Red is a color that easily catches attention, hence its uses for important signs, much like this warning one. Let's get to the next ones.

Those are the True Lab ones. I've identified red appearing four times at least. For the first two, the red, as proven by the second image, is there for the association of colors red/blue/green/yellow, an association of colors that is very common to see. As for the entries, the red is again there with the intent of scaring people, or at least creating a feeling of dread, as this is a darker shade of red.

By continuing, we can see that red also appears on Sans's telescope room. I'm not going to look through every room in Undertale. Tumblr limits the amount of images we can send in one past and it would be too long. I chose this one because we do not look at the room itself in the telescope. But to be fair, I feel like that was chosen at random, which may show a lack of meaning for the color red red in some occasions. I can't see any meaning in this, especially when Frisk's eye becomes purple, which makes it even more confusing. Let's also look at the dimensional box, that also has some red on it. It's probably that way to separate from the very blue, green, and white looks of Snowdin and Waterfall. The next one is the last appearance of red I will look into, and I kept this one for last intentionally.

The end of the Sans fight, the one everyone waiting. Well, first of all, thanks to these screenshots (and feel free to verify by fighting Sans in-game), we can actually see that the red only appears once Sans put his hand on his torso. You can also see the red thing on the hand on the third screenshot. We're not here to theorize about the true nature of this. In fact, this post assumes that no theory should be stated as correct. Sans in Undertale is intentionally left as mysterious, and we're not sure anything about Sans truly means anything. That is one of these instances, though one of the weirdest. Now, to continue, let's not forget that determination is relevant during some moments of Undertale. For fights, it's especially relevant for Undyne, Undyne the Undying, and the amalgamates, as Undyne calls herself determined and the amalgamates have been injected determination. Let's look at them.

As you can see, as proven with Sans and Asgore, some colorful details can appear, yet no red color appears on Undyne the Undying and the amalgamates themselves when you fight them, even though they're related to Determination. Interestingly enough, as you can see with the Memoryheads (which applies to all amalgamates by the way), red text appears when you attack them, telling some words. One may assume that it is because the amalgamates have determination. However, I would like to talk about another possible reason for this red text (plus I've kind of already talked in the first two parts how red doesn't mean determination). The True Lab is supposed to be that horror part of Undertale. This can be seen thanks to Alphys's unethical experiments, the amalgamated living beings, as well as the stressing atmosphere of the place in general accompanied by the music. Red text could also be a part of it. Red is the color that reminds people of blood, which can strike disgust and fear in some people, especially younger audiences. Red being there for being scary is one thing I've mentioned previously in this post, in one instance even relevant to the True Lab, though it was a darker red. Hence, due to that other possibility, among with a few possible others, I will not assume that the red text means Determination. This, much like a lot of the lore of Undertale, is ambiguous at best. The lore being ambiguous is one message I wanted to pass to the Undertale community. The ambiguous lore makes people easily have headcanons and think of them as facts since people repeat over and over that they are facts without even trying to do proper research. Yet when you think about it twice, there can be many explanations for many, many different things. Many things also aren't as obvious as they are talked about when you research the lore properly. But at this point, most people have been told from their very first introduction to the Undertale community that some interpretations of the lore are facts, and people try to just show correlations (sometimes very doubtful ones) just to prove their beliefs, while not admitting the flaws of their research process or of the theories themselves. I won't claim that my investigation is perfect. To be truly perfect, I would need to analyze every single bit of text in Undertale, even the one that could seem irrelevant. I do it to a certain extent, and I come up with unexpected ones, but looking at everything would take a way too long time. I doubt any analysis is perfect, but I also try to find the flaws in my own and this will easily be visible in part 4. As for now, have a good planetary rotation.

[zenodreemurr]

Red is NOT the true color of Determination? An investigation about Undertale lore (Part 2)

Greetings everyone. Let's continue our investigation of Undertale lore. If, by any chance, this is the first part you stumble upon, here's a summary of what is happening. These posts are a full-on investigation about the color of Determination and how it may not be red. During the last part, I tried to find the origin of the belief that determination is red, while correlating red with another thing, using texts from the game itself instead of other sources. Each part of this investigation, due to the full one being too long and to stay consistent with the separation of the parts of the investigation, is its own Tumblr post. It is recommended to read them in order. Here are PART 1, PART 3, PART 4 Anyways, what I haven't specified in the last part while trying to find the origin of the belief that the color of Determination is red is that you also often hear that the red SOUL is a SOUL of DETERMINATION, due to Frisk's SOUL being red and them having an extreme amount of Determination. The belief that red is associated with Determination may also come from there. Which actually allows me to jump to the next part of this analysis. What is the nature of the red SOUL? Is the red SOUL DETERMINATION? Is its nature defined like the other SOULs in the game? Before tackling on DETERMINATION, it is better to have the basis. Where do Patience, Bravery, Integrity, Perseverance, Kindness, and Justice come from? The answer is actually very simple. It comes from a room in Snowdin, where you can find a mini-game where you have to push a snowball inside a hole. Then, when it happens, a flag appears of a specific color (the color changing depending on specific requirements, mostly the time you take to put the snowball in the hole). You can then interact with the flag. Here's what happens:

Each time you interact with a flag of a specific color, as you can see on these screenshots, they make a reference to the weapon of the Human with that same SOUL color (the color affiliated with each weapon being confirmed during the Flowey fight). This is the only interaction you can get from a flag with each of these colors, but the red flag actually has two unique interactions. The first one is when you get it for the first time.

This is where the names of the SOULs given by the fans come from. However, you do not see a single mention of "Determination" in this text. Instead, the only text in red is "Ball game", which seems to be one of the only red texts outside of the Genocide route. There is, actually, a new line of text that appears if you get the red flag in the minigame a second time (which is very difficult if you don't know what you're doing). Here it is.

Once again, nothing in the ball game correlates red with determination, and yet that is the closest part of the game that could do it, as it has done so with the other SOUL colors. The red SOUL itself is not talked about in an explicit or implicit manner anywhere else in the game. It's just SOULs in general that are talked about, and Determination when the subject matters. Put another way, there's nothing in-game that confirms that the red SOUL is a SOUL of Determination. As such, if the belief that red is associated with Determination comes from there, then there's no proof of it not being invented by the fans. As well, this is what I've seen most fans arguing. The next part will talk about the appearances of red throuhout Undertale. Have a good next 24 hours.

[zenodreemurr]

Red is NOT the true color of Determination? An investigation about Undertale lore (Part 1)

Greetings everyone. Today is the time to write and publish a new post, which has not happened in quite a while. It will be an analysis of Undertale lore and of a common belief among the members of the community, which is that determination is represented by the color in Undertale. Then, it will try to explain why it may not be the case. Take note that everything written in this post, unless stated otherwise, will have an in-game source that will be shown through images of the Undertale Text Project, that is a collection of screenshots of everything that can be found in the game, even if it can only be done through hacking. Speculations from fans, headcanons and too specific interpretations of the lore will be avoided as much as possible (excluding the one stating that Determination is red, since it is a subject of this post). The reason for the lack of content from the Undertale Kickstarter, Toby Fox's Twitter, the UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE Twitter, and Toby Fox's Tumblr is that I have found nothing regarding this subject there. Deltarune stuff will be considered irrelevant here, as this is an entirely different world. Also note that this post also extends to the idea of the red SOUL being a DETERMINATION one. Due to the limitation of 30 images per Tumblr post, this is forced to be part one of the analysis. As such, I have decided to make each subject in the investigation a part of the full investigation itself. So, here are PART 2, PART 3, PART 4 As such, this first part will try to answer this first question: Where does the belief that Determination is red come from? So, before tackling on debunking this idea, the very first thing we need to do is to identify its origin. Unfortunately, it's an incredibly difficult task, since this post arrives kind of late and that this is a very ancient belief. It can come from anywhere and finding the original reason would be insanely difficult, even if we exclude the very idea that the original posting was deleted. Everybody during this time learns it from a Mandela effect (which is basically that the source of the false knowledge comes from a sharing that comes from another, that comes from another... ignoring the true source of the false knowledge). I'm myself not without false memories from the game. However, even if this seems nearly impossible to find, I may have found out where this belief comes from. However, please do not forget that this a theory about the origin of the belief, and that it should not be seen as fact (though I believe it to be highly likely). Anyways. A false memory that is probably in the mind of many persons is that the word "Determination" actually appears in red at multiple moments of the game. Specifically, during the genocide route, when everybody in a zone has been killed and any encounter will trigger a "But nobody came.", and by interacting with a SAVE point. However, as I stated, it is a false memory, due to red texts appearing at SAVE points when there still are Monsters to kill (and if you kill Greater Dog but not Snowdrake).

However, the word "Determination" itself never appears as red when interacting with a SAVE point (or anywhere in the game for that matter), even though I'm sure many believe it does. Here are the proofs I can find:

Even though this is already proven to not be in red, it doesn't mean that the beliefs stop there. Affiliating determination with red would come from that (at least that's the best explanation I found), but what does red text even mean? According to many theories, red text represents Chara talking. And this is either confirmed by multiple instances of red text in the genocide route, or at least very easily visible.

The two next images come from texts in the Neutral route, which serve as context for the third image.

The next image also comes from the Neutral route, and serves as context for the red text.

Understanding of the relevance of these last two images need an understanding of another part of the Undertale lore. That is that the child we see in the very intro of the game, that falls in the Underground, is actually Chara and not Frisk. Please pay attention to the children's designs in the next images.

You can see by comparing the child's clothing in the first two images with the one on the third image that the child isn't Frisk. Furthermore, Chara is represented as identical to the child in the introduction during Asriel's flashback in the pacifist route (which is itself a continuation of the introduction).

Now that this is defined, why would Chara's text be red? What relates Chara to this color? Well, as seen previously with the screenshots of the coffin room, Chara's SOUL was indeed a red one, which can relate Chara to this color. Unfortunately, what could be identified as Chara's text, even if the Genocide route, is not always red. This can also been in Asgore's house.

Those are obviously some examples among others. I took obvious ones. Anyways, the nature of red text itself is actually more nebulous than what people believe it is. I often hear people affiliating Chara's text with the red one (for non-subscribers of the "Chara is the narrtor" theory), yet it's not this simple, or, for an opposite belief, what makes so a text is decided to be red (outside of being in the Genocide route only) is seemingly unclear (for subscribers of the "Chara is the narrator" theory). And these images are the only ones I show because I find them to be the most clear. There are other red texts and other examples out there. The next part will talk about the significance of the red SOUL. Have a good day.

[zenodreemurr]

Drawing by @error404sansfr

Xenotale Papyrus by @zenodreemurr

GreatTale Papyrus by @error404sansfr

Let Papyrus Say Fuck Day.

[zenodreemurr]

[Late] [Cheattale:Prime] Important announcement regarding Cheattale:Prime

--------------------------------------

Hello everyone, a while ago it was my Friend @zenodreemurr birthday and I made a pretty big announcement on Discord that I somehow forgot to do here.

I am going to give @zenodreemurr the ownership of the AU Cheattale (more precisely the "Prime" version, as "NEO" will still belong to me and "Rebirth" obviously already had been given to @startio83).

My reasonning for this decisions are...

...

...well, things that only concerns me, Zeno and (potentially) Startio, therefore I won't have to share it here.

But most of all: Zeno is an excellent Written and Friend, and I am sure my work is on sage hands with him.

That's all folks.

[zenodreemurr]

Clearing confusion

Recently, I have found out that people believe that Celerity!Sans has determination. I do not know why they believe so but I will make everything clear to avoid future confusion. First of all, you need to know that Monsters do not naturally have determination in Xénotale. The only Monster born with determination in this AU is Undyne, due to her half-Monster half-determination soul. Some Monsters have gotten determination through other means. In the eidocide route, Papyrus absorbs determination and somehow survives to it. Alphys takes a fragment of each one of the six Human souls, each containing a bit of determination. Gaster just entered in contact with determination, which is what made his skull melt a bit. You could argue that Flowey is a Monster, and yes, he’s born out of determination (among other things). To finish, while nobody makes such a misconception, the determined guard and the soular knights do not have determination. For the soular knights, it’s due to the making process of their artificial souls. This same process is what allowed the determined guard to make his determination staff, though it is merely a weapon. If he were to accidentally give himself determination with it, he would entirely melt. Anyways, Sans has never absorbed determination like Papyrus did in the eidocide route. In conclusion, he never got determination that way. My second point is that LOVE has no relationship with determination. People have been telling me that since Celerity has an extreme amount of LOVE, he has an extreme amount of determination. No, this is wrong. As explained in Xénotale: Celerity, an increase in LOVE is what you get when you get a sufficient amount of EXP (to make it simple). EXP by itself is a form of matter that comes into existence when EBM (EXP Basis Matter) is converted because of its transfer from one body to another, often due to death. When death happens, both EBM and EXP is transferred, which may lead in a LOVE increase. EBM/EXP and determination are two entirely distinct forms of matter, which is why Celerity’s LOVE doesn’t influence his determination. My third point is definitely something most people do not remember, but Celerity has an ability called DT Extraction, which allows for him to temporarily remove one’s determination. One could believe that since he extracts DT from its user, he actually gets it. No, he doesn’t. It’s just a removal, not an absorption. Even if this was an absorption-based ability, I highly doubt it would work on Celerity’s side. He would still not get it. One may argue that due to the backstory of his soul (the soul of celerity), he actually has determination in itself. This is my last point, and this one is a bit more complicated. To understand, I need to remind you all of the backstory of this soul. -A long time ago, Zeno extracted his soul from his body and it separated itself into four fragments. -Zeno took the polychromatic fragments and kept it with himself, not knowing what to do with it. -He eventually let the polychromatic fragment be in the royal laboratory. -When he eventually found out what to do with it and when it came time to do the thing, he took the polychromatic fragment, turned it into a complete soul, and gave it special properties. He then gave the soul to Celerity, in replacement of his old Monster soul. So, of course, I can see why one would think that since he has the soul of a Human-Monster hybrid (or at least a fragment of it), he has a soul with determination in it. According to Undertale: The Ultimate Timeline lore, this is completely wrong. In Undertale: The Ultimate Timeline, all observations on determination were made on the souls of dead beings, giving the Monsters the belief that the determination was coming from the Human souls. A fact, discovered at some point, is that determination is actually a brain product, always keeping itself near the brain and interacting fine with it. Determination keeps existing for extended periods of time as long as the brain is active, since this is one of the two only places it can keep existing for eternity in. However, when a Human’s brain dies, the determination, as if it were alive (though it is not), flees into the only other place it can keep existing for eternity in, that is, the soul. This is why determination is found in the souls of dead Humans in Undertale: The Ultimate Timeline. Extracting a soul from a living Human would lead to a lack of determination, instead only having its soul power. The determination soul by itself only increases the amount of determination the brain produces in that AU, and would theoretically help Monsters survive to the existence of determination in their body. There’s more to this lore, such as why Monsters do not have determination, why they can’t handle it, and why Undyne still has determination, but I will not reveal this for the moment. What you need to remember is that the polychromatic fragment of Zeno’s soul never contained determination in the first place, and as such, Celerity never had determination in his soul. Celerity’s lack of determination can be seen in story, as to get orders, he either needs to directly go to the headquarters of Zeno’s organization, or he needs to have a telepathic communication with Zeno (which happens often). This second need wouldn’t exist if he had determination, as he could simply be contacted by The Voice. The very fact that he is contacted by Zeno instead of The Voice should be a good enough proof that Celerity doesn’t have determination. I hope this clears this misconception. Have a good day.

[zenodreemurr]

The first one was suggestion requested by someone on Discord, while the second was also suggested by @alteraverseking .

PS: I don't accept requests, just suggestions which I don't guarantee to do, even at a very, very, very long period of time, you're lucky if I did, but you'll waste your time asking me for that suggestion cuz maybe I won't even do it... Please wait until I say my art requests are open, thanks chu~

I accepted these two at a surprisingly earlier time than I intended because they asked very nicely in DMs, and the suggestions were personally considered to me as an interesting experience.💕 Credits to the AU owners;

Jenny - that guy from Discord (no disclosing of usernamesss :3)

Cheattale - @alteraverseking

Xenotale - their best friend's AU

✦Stay safe, stay patient, stay strong, stay... Determined, pinksterz!💕

[zenodreemurr]

how old are you. im curious

Greetings curious (sorry for the bad joke, it's just to give some flavor to the post), I'm 18 years old.

[zenodreemurr]

Why the Sagaverse Out!Codes are a disappointment to me

I haven’t made a post like this in quite a while, I believe, and it is finally time that I make another. Anyways, before you may have heard of Sagaverse. If you have not, let me tell you. All I’m going to say is directly taken from the Sagaverse blog, and is not of my writing. In fact, it’s even from the first post on this Tumblr blog. It is this way to make sure that nothing stated here is wrong. “[Sagaverse] takes place in an Alternate Multiverse where the truce that Ink and Error made had taken a completely different path from what most people have known before. This series will also focus on the 5 Out!Codes (Ink, Error, Dream, Nightmare, and Core) to see their adventure and conflict after the truce has been made and half of the multiverse was erased by their own creators. They will also be supported by other casts old and new that will join in the shenanigans of the truce aftermath.“ For the purpose of this post, the five Out!Codes Sagaverse is focused on will not be talked about, as they have not been created by anyone in the Sagaverse team, and as such, I do not consider them “Sagaverse Out!Codes” for the purpose of this post, though they have been rewritten for the AU. DT!Undyne will also be disregarded due to the very obvious intent to not show inormation on her in her post. The Error creations are also going to be disregarded since none of the things I’m going to say really applies to them, and their presentations differ from that of the others in regard of what they say. Also, to be extremely clear, this post is in no way intended to criticize Sagaverse itself and its writing overall. I myself, especially when the first parts came out, was really excited to see the rest of the story. This enjoyment is, in fact, one of the reasons I believe I can allow myself to call them a “disappointment”. And to end this introduction, I would like to state that while it’s an entirely personal opinon, I tried my best to give a properly written explanation on why I have this opinion. That is, except for the digression below that is very personal and almost unrelated, as this is a digression (I just couldn’t stop myself and I felt like I needed to talk about that, even shortly). Anyways, let’s begin.

The overuse of Undertale timelines

First of all, the problem a lot of Sagaverse Out!Codes, though not all, have, presents itself before the Out!Code is even properly presented. It is the overuse of Undertale timelines as an origin. Sometimes, it is timelines of a popular AU for a reason. It can be seen in no less than six cases, especially recently. While it isn’t as used as I recalled, we can see how there are a few that use such timelines as a poor excuse for their origin that does not have more thought put behind it (which is especially true for Maya, Azael, and DDoS!Chara). Nothing in the presentation of any Out!Code feels like it isn’t an AU of Undertale (or of Underswap for Maya). The only exception would be Terror!Asgore, that actually gets a bit of an explanation on why the events that made him an Out!Code happen. Though, in some cases, they could easily have created AUs for them. They have done it for other Out!Codes after all, and even with the Halving, there are more than enough AUs in that alternate Multiverse to be origins for the Out!Codes.

I personally find this to be the least important of the problems with them. Let’s continue.

The reasons they are Out!Codes.

A very common detail I noticed when reading the Out!Code backstories for many of them (less the recent ones) is the way they end, which are meant to explain why they are Out!Codes. Most of them end by the origin AU (or timeline, as stated in the previous point) being destroyed for a pretty random, and CORE!Frisk inviting them to the Omega Timeline (this concerns, just to make the list: Maya, Vocab!Asriel, Gladia, Olympia, Phoenix!Grillby, Luke, Azael, Demon!Napstablook). A few exceptions that are still similar, are Neil, who was an Out!Code before being invited by CORE!Frisk, and Mirela, who never got her AU destroyed in the first place, though was still invited in the Omega Timeline by CORE!Frisk. For some it also isn’t specified in the end of the presentation.

Just to tell you all, out of the 15 Out!Codes that are talked about in this post, 10 use the Omega Timeline in their story. That makes two thirds of it. While I know the Omega Timeline is indeed important in the story of Sagaverse, especially more in chapters 2 and 3 than in chapter 1, I still feel like these ways of becoming Out!Codes (for those talked about in this part of the post, except Neil) is an incredibly lazy way to make an Undertale OC an Out!Code, and considering how they almost all got a nearly identical end, except for the smaller details, it feels like the Sagaverse didn’t even feel like putting thought on why their Out!Codes are... Out!Codes. This seems to happen in less and less occasions, I must admit.

In fact, this is so overused in Sagaverse that it made me hate this backstory ending for Out!Codes due to how lazy it is. I would still like to say that I find that Terror!Asgore has a pretty terrible excuse to become an Out!Code, but that’s more of an endless Undertale fandom debate about SOUL power beliefs than anything personal, so I’m not going to tell more about it.

Boredom

So this may be more of a problem related to the presentation posts themselves than the Out!Codes. It can be argued one way or another, and on a case-by-case basis. Anyways, one thing I find really lacking in the presentation posts is the lack of a part about personality. For some, there is no explanation about their personalities, though you can guess some parts with their backstories and base. However, it doesn’t mean we truly know how they evolved since they are Out!Codes, and this would be a nice addition, especially considering Sagaverse has this as one of its subjects. I’m not really asking for something as an Undertale OC Wiki article, but a bit of a glance on their personality would be nice. However, this may also mean the personality wasn’t thought of, probably not in all cases, but at least some. What I’m trying to say is that the lack of a proper glance at their personality really doesn’t help me liking them.

Another problem with this and is how the AUs (and most Undertale-based characters of those AUs) of these Out!Codes aren’t touched upon. While this wouldn’t normally be a problem for Out!Code presentations since it’s an Out!Code presentation and not an AU presentation, the AUs they originate from, if I recall correctly, are literally made for them to exist by the Sagaverse team. I know some have been developed about on the Sagaverse Wiki, but this still makes the AUs feel bland and have no substance whatsoever. What makes it even worse for me is that it doesn’t feel like the AUs will get a true story anytime, and this is the part that makes me the most sad. I know that the backstories of some of them will be more developed upon one day though, so maybe that part will just be entirely oudated one day. I would actually find that good.

Okay, I’ll be entirely fair about this last part of the point. This is a lot of Undertale Out!Codes, and I know that very well. In fact, this even concerns some of mine (Aether and Erebus are a perfect example), so you can say this is hypocritical if you want. It’s just that their story relevance may be little (I don’t really know, but this is a possibility considering there are many Sagaverse Out!Codes, and still five main Out!Codes in Sagaverse) and that their AUs, as well as themselves, may not be as much developed upon as I would like to. None of it really applies to those that don’t have origin AUs in the first place. I guess this can be considered a consequence of the first part of the next reason.

Some are also just, of course, more interesting than the others. For example, I just find Gladia and Luke to be two examples of Out!Codes that are outright bad.

The reason those Sagaverse Out!Codes exist in the first place

I’ll be truly honest with you, one of the bigger reasons the Sagaverse Out!Codes even exist in the first place is because it fixes one big issue with Multiversal AUs (AUs as defined by the Undertale AU Network), that is the authorizations to use AUs and Out!Codes. In fact, I entirely like this part of the reason they exist, and let’s be honest, it’s entirely justified. They don’t have problems with such things as not being allowed to use them in Sagaverse, since the Out!Codes are theirs.

But another reason on why they exist is to not be Sans. I know that plenty of persons are just tired to see plenty of Out!Codes, especially the popular ones, to be Sanses over and over (with a few exceptions, especially a lot of Gasters). It’s not my case, though  It doesn’t mean I’m against having plenty of Out!Codes for other Undertale characters.

The thing is, the Sagaverse team doesn’t fear to admit their true hatred of Sans Out!Codes. In fact, they did it in Chapter 1 Part 15. In this part, Ink!Sans states: “Most of these Out!Codes appeared after the Halving. Thankfully, many of the Sans Out!Codes got poofed because of it as well.” While Ink indeed explains just after that it’s because the amount of Sans Out!Codes made by the community that he feels that way, stating such a thing in-story and bashing the existence of Sans Out!Codes like that is a direct way to show someone’s true hatred towards Out!Codes, in that case, the Sagaverse team.

Beginning of the digression. This can be tied into how Sagaverse mocks the community, as well as maybe other things some times. Examples I can think of right now is their mocking of non-Out!Codes beating Out!Codes, or some character names. There are probably others, but since it’s not part of the main subject, I won’t go too much further. I would still like to mention DDoS!Chara, that has “She then met Hacked, became girlfriends with her, and lived easily through simps on livestream websites such as Twitch.”, which is directly a way to mock simps, and that in a mere Out!Code presentation. Easily the worst thing in Sagaverse for me, and it doesn’t seem like it will become better anytime. End of the digression.

The true problem with the fact they are created partially due to the blatant true hatred of Sans Out!Codes by the Sagaverse team is that they’re not even more interesting than your average Out!Code (Sans or not), and with only these Out!Code presentations, I would even consider them less interesting than a lot of Out!Codes I’ve seen. You would expect Out!Codes created for that to have a lot of thought and effort put into them, so the Sagaverse team could indeed be proud of them, then mock and insult Sans Out!Codes without too many negative repercussions on themselves, but those Out!Codes do not. Like, personally, that’s what i expected. Those expectations put too high may be a big reason for this disappointment, and may be considered unjustified (though there’s still reason three that exists), but this doesn’t change the fact that the Sagaverse Out!Codes are, more often that not, not that interesting.

Conclusion

My conclusion, as well as a summary of this post, is that the big disappointment comes directly or indirectly from how lazy the writing of some of these Out!Code backstories are, how we don’t know much except them, and just generally how they’re less interesting that I thought we would be. It may also be because of the presentation posts themselves and how they don’t present the Out!Codes all that well.Actually, there is a last reason that I couldn’t put anywhere that made me disappointed in these Out!Codes. It’s the fact that many of them, according to the presentation, have been created by the whole Sagaverse team. With multiple minds behind them, you would expect Out!Codes of an even better quality. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be the case. Anyways, hope you enjoyed this post, whether you agree or not with it.

[zenodreemurr]

This has to be the single best piece of advice I have ever seen touching this subject. I had to reblog because it is a very good read.

Is it ok if I ask for advice on how to make good fanchildren? Love this blog, keep up the good work! *thumbs up*.

((Ahhhh oh my god I have no idea how old this ask is, I never got a notification for it! I’m so sorry for being so late, I hope you haven’t given up on an answer yet^^;

Thanks so much for your patience and for supporting the blog, first of all! I may take forever and a day to update nowadays, but asks like this really do make me happy and give me motivation to continue.

Now, as far as advice for making fanchildren goes…

I think the most important thing is, no matter how much of whichever parent goes into the fanchild, it’s best to use the fanchild thing as a springboard and just focus on making a good character from there. Use the parents to get a design and some basic traits down, think about their upbringing, and then from there develop them like you would any good OC: give them their own interests and tastes, their own goals and insecurities, take into account what kind of setting they’re in and how other people would treat them, and watch ‘em go!

To go a little more in-depth on thinking about their upbringing and such, though–it’s not just about how much of each parent’s personality goes into the child, though that definitely plays a part. Arial, for instance, has her mother’s rough-and-tumble ways and her father’s kindness. It’s also about how these two characters would raise a child, and how that would shape the child in turn. And it’s very important to think of the parents’ potential shortcomings as well here.

For example, though I haven’t gotten a chance to go in-depth on this yet, Arial has some very odd quirks that make things difficult for her because of who her parents are. Papyrus canonically yells (or at least makes a lot of noise) with every line he speaks, and Undyne tends to get riled up and boisterous quickly. The result of this is that Arial herself is an incredibly loud kid who literally has no concept of volume control, and this gets her into a lot of trouble at school (which I have brought up before) and really doesn’t do her any favors in the socialization department. Papyrus and Undyne are both very loving and attentive, so Arial is a pretty happy-go-lucky kid overall, but, her parents being pretty odd ducks, she’s turned out to be a bit of an odd duck herself. This also doesn’t do her any favors in the socialization department. (Ever wonder why I’ve never mentioned her having any friends outside of her family and Frisk? Yeah.)

There’s a little bit more that I’m actually going to go in-depth on with the next ask, so I won’t say much more here on that note, but you get the general idea.

Are these characters going to be loving, attentive parents or are they more distant? Did they want this child to begin with? What sort of values will they instill in their child? (Papyrus teaches Arial to be positive and persistent, Undyne teaches her to be courageous, etc.) Keep in mind–two characters that love their child and have good intentions could very well be terrible parents still, or at least have deep flaws in their parenting, because they might end up spoiling the kid or setting a bad example. Try and be as honest as possible to the parents’ characters and don’t be afraid to admit they wouldn’t be perfect parents, because no one is perfect in how they handle things 100% of the time.

Hope this was helpful, anon! Thanks again, and sorry it turned out so long^^; ))

[zenodreemurr]

[Xénotale] Celerity!Sans Fanart

[zenodreemurr]

Hello, it's me again, the one who asked for alpha x celerity, tbh I now remembered that you as Zeno in the story is 9 years old while story shift is 16 years old... I hope you give an explanation about this ship and how it's not illegal...

Welcome back. So, the answer to this question will be very different from the lats one, since it is a different case of a ship. However, since your wording worries me a bit, I need to specify one thing. Zeno is not a self-insert of mine. It has never been the case and I would have never thought of someone thinking this. It happened so many times that I feel like I need to clear it up publicly, and you give me a good occasion to do it. To make the story short, I made Zeno back during the very end of 2017. I chose this username on November 24, 2018 because I had no idea for a good username, and just decided to keep it. Now that this is clear, let's get back to the original wonder. I know exactly what you're talking about, but you need to know one thing... I've made my own research on Storyshift Chara's age, and the only place I found the information of them being 16 years old is the old Undertale AU Fanon Wiki (also known as 735q4e87 Wiki). This Wiki is not a valid source of information. In fact, it is even made to add non-canonical information (among other things I will not talk about). The new Undertale AU Fanon Wiki legit copypasted the article from the actual Storyshift Wiki, where no age has been specified. I haven't made too much research on Voltra's or the Storyshift tumblr. Anyways, according to my research, Storyshift Chara could be younger or older than that (honestly, I'd say older, but that's just my opinion). Back in the day this "ship" was made, I didn't care about many things. Age was definitely one of the things I didn't care about (especially with a character such a Storyshift Chara with an unlikely specific age). However, to be honest, it was supposed to be friendship. Unfortunately, the images were pretty confusing. It was a bit intentional, so I'll take my fault. However, I personally regret making this. It definitely was a mistake in many ways, and the only reason I'm even responding is because I feel like you shouldn't be left without an answer. So feel free to think whatever you want about this case. But let me clarify something... I've seen far worse Zeno ships out there, some you may not want to know. I've heard of people making those, so believe me when I say it's not the worst. I won't tell any precise ship, and I'm not even sure of the people that made them. For the one you specified though, I know you've seen in on one of my accounts. Back in the day, I was publishing all fan-arts made by people without permission, a bit because people refused to do it by themselves. I hate to have done that and have grown out of doing it. One of my recent posts may prove otherwise, but it was published with permission, and because the artist told me they didn't have any place to publish it only. Now that this is cleared up, I think this isn't the answer you would have imagined, but this is all I can say. Have a good day.

[zenodreemurr]

Hi, I have a question regarding Alpha x Celerity, I hope you don't take it as an offense because I just want to understand what age do you assume Alpha is in your AU, cuz Celerity!Sans is 17 years old and 3 months old, which is kinda below 18. Then again, I hope you don't take it as offense. I'm not gonna refer to Alpha being homophobic because in the story I believe as I understand it is rather a another take on Alphatale along with Xénotale and so many more other AUs, so I just wanna confirm Alpha's age.

This is quite the obscure knowledge to an extent. Well, congratulations for having it. Just wanted to say that. And no, I don't take this question as an offense. Now I can give you an actual answer.

So, since the full answer will be pretty long, I will give you the short answer. Alpha is 13800 years old approximatively.

Now as for the long answer, we need to determine some Multiversal lore, and specifically the difference between physical age and Multiversal age in Multiversal culture, and why such distinction exists. In Multiversal culture, the physical age exists to tell how much the body of a being has matured. It's pretty much the age as you explained it. This is why Celerity is stated to be 17 years old. The Multiversal age, however, has a different purpose. It was made up to tell how long a person has existed in the Multiverse. Universes also have a Multiversal age, so this doesn't apply only to people. It is a simple measure of Multiversal time. This is also why Celerity is stated to be three months old, since he has spent three months as an Out!Code.

So, why does this distinction exist in Multiversal culture? Well first of all, the Multiversal time is not the same as the time in a universe. They flow differently. This is one of the two reasons Out!Codes separate them. The other reason is that this difference in flow has a secondary effect, as when you go outside your universe, you do not physically age anymore. This means that, for a random example, if a four years old person that gets their universe destroyed and survives to become an Out!Code, they will never get physically older than 4. Multiversal culture takes account of that, and as such, stopped caring about the physical age of a person when it comes to love relationships. Love relationships between Out!Codes are still extremely rare. Multiversal age is also not considered in love relationships since it is mostly used to tell whether or not someone has to be explained parts of the past of the Multiverse. The way people speak of events to a person depends on each's Multiversal age for example.

Alpha, while being 13800 years old approximatively in Multiversal age, has the physical age he had when he died, which I don't have noted anywhere.

Note that there are special cases of people when coming to this system. For example, while Multiversal age usually counts the time someone has been in the Multiverse (to not be confused with being an Out!Code, since not all Multiversal entities can travel from AU to AU), it is not necessarily the case. Some AUs may have existed or long enough (and I'm meaning at least years or even decades) without a LOAD or a RESET before one of its inhabitants becomes an Out!Code. As such, the time a person has existed in this universe (in Multiversal time) is added to the amount of time they have spent in the Multiverse for their Multiversal age. The first example that comes to mind is Great!Sans. He spent 102 years in Multiversal time in his universe without any LOAD or RESET, then spent 22 years as an Out!Code, making him actually 124 years old in Multiversal age. Those are rare occurrences though. A more common occurrence is someone being born directly into the Multiversal Void or an anti-void, where the time flow is that of the Multiverse. In these cases, the beings still age in the Multiverse, but age slower inside a universe. They will constantly age, and for them, their physical age and their Multiversal age will always be the same. This is still not considered in love relationships.

So, what about Celerity's exact age? Well, he's kind of a special case. After all, he often returns in Xénotale, his origin AU. He only returns in his timeline, the one he's beaten his Frisk in and the one the headquarters of the organization are in. To put it simply (and because further explanation in unnecessary), Zeno has locked aging in this timeline. It means that even though Celerity should naturally age physically, he doesn't. It also means he'll always stay physically 17 years old. This also applies to Xéno!Papyrus (which is 17 years old physically and 2 months old in Multiversal age) and Xéno!Frisk (which is 16 years old physically and 1 month old in Multiversal age).

If you're any curious, the age a skeleton has entirely physically matured in Xénotale is 25, meaning that Celerity has not entirely physically matured. However, he's still capable of reproduction (though he can't naturally reproduce with a male skeleton).

As for Alpha being homophobic, well, I can entirely discard it if I want to. Most of the Alphatale content in my AUs is inspired by Alphatale Prime. Back then, Alpha was not homophobic. The ship itself was created long before Alpha was made homophobic (the ship was created in January 2019 while Alpha was stated homophobic for the first time in June or July 2020). In Alphatale Classic lore, well, I don't even think it has been revealed how Alpha became homophobic. I'm personally convinced that it is due to religion, but believe whatever you want about it. Anyway, in this Multiverse, religion has never had much importance in Alphatale, if any at all. So, yeah, I don't see why I would write Alpha as homophobic.

As for different takes, what I write is actually canon to some AUs. Xénotale, Undertale: The Ultimate timeline (both being my AUs, but nothing in there is considered canon to Puritytale, at least now), or even Upsilontale (that isn't mine), along with some other AUs that aren't mine either. It's just to clarify, no offense.

I hope this answer was satisfying.

[zenodreemurr]

For the two years anniversary of Taken!Altertale, I've rewritten it but it happens in another Multiverse. I suggest you read the disclaimer first, for numerous reasons that are stated in the disclaimer. Have fun reading.

[zenodreemurr]

Greattale - The Malediction

My friend @error404sansfr​ made a cover for Greattale - The Malediction, a story I’ve written for Greattale, his AU. Here it is:

Also, here is a French variant of the cover for those that want to see it:

For those who want to read Greattale - The Malediction (short story, in English, not my greatest work), click on the title itself, that is in bold and italicized.

Hope you enjoyed this short post.