#Patton = Pathos. Logan = Logos/logic

[moonfurthetemmie]

It a 'series' about a youtuber -Thomas Sanders- and how he goes through emotional things

Like lying, his anxiety, and his passion for theater..

He decided to give characters to some of the emotions he thinks is most important and give them names, to help the veiwers also get the situations, by applying them to actual people not just emotions.

Soo....

Patton - morality

Logan - logic

Roman - creativity

Remus - intrusive thoughts

(Fun fact, Remus and Roman are brothers, as in 'good' creativity (Roman) and 'bad' creativity (Remus))

Janus - deceit (aka lying)

Virgil - anxiety

Those six make up the 'main' cast, split up into good and bad, good: Roman, Logan, and Patton and bad: Remus, Janus, and Virgil

In the beginning, however, he is trying to show how you can get 'along' with your anxiety and Virgil then 'transfers' onto the 'good' side.

While some side characters also make an appearance

Remy - sleep (he shows up in some of Thomas' vines)

Emile - ??? (HE shows up for i think one video and its about therapy and his main thing is cartoons)

By having all the 'emotions' have actual faces it puts into perspective what's actually happening is thomas' brain instead of him trying to explain it.

The characters got so popular that eventually he started to branch out from the normal emotional dealing videos and expanded more on the characters as actual people and not just as extensions of himself.

hm. the more you say the more this does look like a sanders sides OC

While none of the headmates are meant to be emotions, they do reflect some aspects of myself (and thus, the system's host).

Delta's very afraid of losing people, and craves affection. it's turned up to a 20 from what's up with the real Moon, tho. she also has the social confidence I aspire to have (and have never achieved GHFDJKSGHFDJ)

Lizzie's sort of the personified 'inner child'; she's not actually a child, but she gives just as few fucks as I did when I was a kid. She does what she wants, damn what anyone else thinks. She doesn't care if something will be embarrassing (with a few exceptions) if she thinks it'll be fun.

Jennifer is the fascination with horror and is the only one in the system who can actually handle horror movies and shit.

listen. I know I have three horror AUs (and. a fourth hidden away), but i'm a huge wuss. Actually interacting with original horror freaks me the FUCK out. I like watching Markiplier and Jacksepticeye play horror games, but sometimes i nope out and never come back. and there's an extra degree of separation there between me and the scary stuff!!!!

I'm also not dividing the headmates into 'good' and 'bad', because when it's a system...

I don't want to fall into the negative stereotypes that DID and other similar disorders have. I'm friends with a few systems, and I've seen some headmates cause serious problems. It's not a party in the USA (reference) 24/7, but I don't know how I, a singlet, could do something like that in fiction without it being. uhhh. in poor taste, to put it mildly. And I'm not ready to try

[moonbeam-dragon]

YES!! OT3 LET'S GOOOO

#1 sanders sides polycule to me

My favourite points I've seen mentioned about them are that 1) Patton takes care of everyone else & Janus and Logan will encourage self care instead, 2) Janus and Logan with their high wits and closed hearts get to be paired with the embodiment of emotions and heart that they can truly trust with anything, 3) mr embodiment of catholic guilt gets paired with the grounded and rational sides of Thomas that can deconstruct said guilt and help him with his emotional state, 4) Janus and Patton get to double team Logan with puns and bits daily, just imagine how hard he gets to groan and then kiss them about it

[the-bisexual-bitch]

Logan/Logic = Logos

Patton/morality(/heart/emotion) = Pathos

Roman/Creativity(/Passion) = Romance (ig?)

Virgil/Anxiety(/Caution(?)) = ...Vigilance???

Janus/Deceit = ???

Remus/Creativity(the "bad" kind) = ????

LITERALLY TELL ME IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING??

(Side note, besides Virgil, all other """darksides""" have "-us" names- makes me think maybe he changed his name?? (He's trans and I know it!!(heavy headcannoning here)))

[logosbot-tm]

🐍🧩😶 for the ask game :3

o7 will do-

I ended up rambling more than I thought, but oh whoops,,, so enjoy this long post

🐍

I love him. He's one of my absolute favourite sides, and far too many who know me, irl or online, have had to suffer through my rambles about Janus.

He's a really interesting character, and there's a lot to say about him. He's also just fun to watch, considering his sass, bitchiness, and general aura.

Funnily enough, he used to be the character I disliked the most when I was younger. This was due to the fact that we hadn't gotten SvS yet, so my view on him was solely based on CLBG, and his two minor appearances in Why Do We Get Out Of Bed and Phases.

When SvS was released, I immediately became obsessed with him. I rewatched the episode over and over and over again, to the point that I still know every word now.

Essentially, great fucking character. Incredibly entertaining. Love when he's on screen, and I need more of him.

🧩

Well, most of my theories are about Orange, especially about the fact that I think he'll be linked to Patton and Logan. This has to do with the fact that Patton and Logan are clearly representative of a part each in the Aristotelian triad, and I'd really like to see that trio completed. We have pathos & logos, so where's ethos? Then there's the triad of the soul and the enneagram triad.

The theory regarding the Enneagram triad has to do with the fact that the triad consists of: Head, Heart, and Gut. These three are them split into triads of their own.

The Head Triad processes the world through logic, planning, and analysis. Which clearly relates to Logan.

The Heart Triad processes the world through feelings and relationships. Which I think is rather easy to relate to Patton for obvious reasons.

Then there's The Gut Triad, which processes the world through instinct. This one, I think, can say a lot about who Orange will be and how he's likely to behave. Considering the fact that we know that he's related to anger (or rage), the Gut Triad seems to fit him.

Each of the triads has different core emotions, and for the Gut triad, that emotion is anger.

I can ramble longer about this at some other point, but since Logan's logo is the brain(/head), and Patton's is a heart, to me it then only seems natural that someone would represent the gut.

I wouldn't be surprised if Orange had a logo that is the gut.

But yeah, that's the basics of that theory lol

😶

Hmmm, well, I have a lot of unpopular opinions, but...

For this ask, I'd honestly just say that I enjoy the Asides videos a lot and that I don't think they're less valuable than the proper episodes.

Considering the fact that Sanders Sides started out with short videos, and that season one of the series is... very reminiscent of the modern day Asides, they're just as enjoyable in my opinion.

Sanders Sides wasn't meant to become serialised in the way it is now, but was rather supposed to be like the Asides videos are. Then the lore got added, and the characters became more developed, and I think it is neat as hell that it developed into, well basically, two series rather than just one.

[mystic-voyager]

New Orange Side Name Theory!!

KAIROS is "a passing instant when an opening appears which must be driven through with force if success is to be achieved." Kairos, then, means that one must find the best situation, taking timing into consideration, to act.

Patton — Pathos: Paternal and Emotions

Logan — Logos: Reason and Logic.

Based off the Greek Philosopher, Aristotle.

Roman — Eros: Romantic, Passionate, Inspiring, Courage, Valor, Great Deeds, Vanquisher. Plato expresses it, eros can help the soul to "remember" beauty in its pure form.

Remus — Jemos (Originally yémHos) : Twin, Double

Janus — (no name): duality, beginnings and ends, entrances and exits, change, time, transition, gateways, doorways, and archways. Depicted with 2 faces: past and future.

TURNUS (the -US ending fitting with Remus and Janus) who is connected to Virgil the poet. The connection I’m drawing here is rejection and anger. Turnus is undone by his unrelenting rage and pride in the end. He has all the elements of a hero.

Turnus’ Character Analysis

[brokenhardies]

so because i got back into sanders sides i decided to - half jokingly - come up with my versions of the sides (sidessonas????) because cringe culture is dead and its fun to imagine stuff <3

logic/sage - representing the logical brain, analytics and acquired knowledge. very similar to logan in terms of personality, but does get excited when research comes up

morality/molly - representing emotions, morality, the inner child and overprotection. more acts like a 'cool big sister' than a parental figure, is the thing reminding me to eat

creativity/eri - representing creativity, passions, dreams and wishes. just as prideful and arrogant as roman, but more overworked to the point of burning themselves out

anxiety/ethan - unlike virgil, ethan is part of the group from the start. represents self-doubt, anxiety and fears, but also represents self-protection and self-care. the side of me encouraging masking the most

deceit/dolos - represents self-preservation, lies and hidden unpleasant/uncomfortable traits that i don't want to acknowledge. more blunt and sarcastic than janus in canon

intrusive thoughts/meli - represents the darker side of creativity, as well as (lack of) impulse control when it comes to creative habits. while they're eri's sibling, they also have a habit of appearing in place of eri when they're at their worst

wrath/bella - a slightly original orange side! they represent feelings of anger and frustration at the world, as well as a desire for justice to be served. also represents what happens when emotions are bottled up and end up exploding everywhere

and as for their real names;

sage's name refers to 'the sage', one of jung's twelve archetypes that never stops seeking knowledge

molly's name comes from 'mollycoddling', a term that means being overprotective and indulgent towards someone, and also is a reference to molly from pokemon 3, who was so lonely she literally warped reality to get her family back

eri & meli's names both come from muses - eri's comes from erata, the muse of erotic and lyrical poetry, while meli's comes from melopmene, the muse of tragedy and chorus

ethan's name comes from ethos, the third mode of persuasion which wasn't represented in sanders sides (with logan's name coming from logos and patton's name coming from pathos), but - according to the vidcon q&a - was going to be used for virgil at one point

dolos's name refers to a greek god of trickery, cunning deception, craftiness, treachery and guile because you cant take the persona 5 out of my brain

bella's name was my favourite conceptually - it also comes from a god, fitting with the other dark sides (dolos and meli's names both come from gods) specifically bellona, the roman name for enyo, goddess of war. its also a reference to the bella twins, a pair of professional wrestlers!

[pistachiolan]

Aristotle’s Modes of persuasion: Logos Pathos & Ethos

And all of the boys together! I really had fun doing this one, messing with clothes designs and coming up with fitting details, thank you for all the support I got on those pieces 

| Logos | Pathos | Ethos |

All the characters belong to @thatsthat24 Do not use, edit or repost my art! Commissions are OPEN | Links in The Bio

[springcourtghoul]

Since Logan comes from Logos and Patton comes from Pathos, what if Deciet’s real name is Ethan from Ethos?

[dullahandyke]

Sympathetic Deceit: on Fanon, Tropes, and Unneeded Character

To those who were in the Sanders Sides fandom from 2018 to 2020, you should be familiar with the kind of simplistic moral hellscape it was. Personally, I recall the phrase 'Sympathetic Dark Sides' and go through all 5 stages of grief at the same time. I remembered it in the shower today and could not rest until I had written 2.2k about the phenomenon.

To those who weren't, I hope this is legible. Enjoy the shitshow!

Premiering in 2016, Sanders Sides is a web series by Thomas Sanders of Vine fame. Initially a light series about his internal logos, ethos, and pathos bickering over problems and coming to conclusions, the series soon integrated a plot, and eventually, tried its hand at moral complexity. Can’t say it didn’t try.

Along with the three initial sides, who were the unequivocal Good Guys, another side was soon introduced; Anxiety, an outcast and an antagonist. As the episodes went on, Anxiety was drawn more and more into the main group, until finally, the group learned his real name: Virgil. Learning the other sides’s names had been a benchmark of trust, and all the others had revealed theirs – Logan, Patton, and Roman. This symbolised that Virgil had become a part of them, no longer an outcast.

As Virgil revealed his name and joined the group, Roman said that he was ‘nothing compared to the others.’ Cue the introduction of the Dark dichotomy.

After this point, a line was drawn to retroactively define the way that Virgil had been an outcast. Roman, Patton, and Logan were the Light Sides, the good guys, the ones who were immediately trusted. Before he had begun hanging around the Light Sides, Virgil had been a member of the Dark Sides, a nebulous group that... the audience knows almost nothing about other than Virgil’s involvement and the existance of others. After that line was dropped, it was tabled. The four Light Sides blissfully bickered amongst each other with no further mention of the Dark Sides.

Five months later, an episode aired that, on its head, seemed to be another solely Light episode. For half an hour, the Light Sides argued. In the back end of the episode, however, Patton – the paternal figure of emotion and morality – had been acting less and less moral and emotional. He had turned almost calculating, and soon, the other Light Sides unmasked him as Deceit, the first Dark Side revealed with the knowledge of what they are. Thomas was panicked by this appearance, and though Deceit soon disappeared, he required reassurance from the Light Sides that despite Deceit being a part of him, he was a Good Person.

Logan, Logic, butted in and claimed that Good and Bad are relative concepts, but before he could continue, Virgil shut him up, reinforcing the dichotomy. Yes, Thomas, you’re a good person even though Deceit lives within you, believe in yourself and don’t let him get to you, etc etc etc.

After this episode, it was over two years before we saw Deceit again – saw him properly, saw him in more than bit parts. During this time, I’d like to swivel to the fandom’s reaction to Deceit, and the bullshittery to follow.

To someone familiar with fandom, it should be no surprise that Virgil was the most popular side. Once an outcast, now redeemed, the most obviously ‘complex’ character in the show. An edgy angsty side,  ripe to be woobied; babied, coddled, treated like a smol precious cinnamon roll.  Of course, if you want to draw out the woobie, first you need to damage it, to give it something to heal from. Hurt/Comfort needs the Hurt. However, all of the Light Sides were good – at this point, no reason had been given to question their morality, and the idea that any of them  would purposefully harm Virgil after his redemption was not a popular one at all. The Light Sides were not the only characters, though. There were the Dark Sides. There was Deceit.

Deceit, who had only gotten five or so minutes screen-time as himself, the rest of which had him imitating Patton. Deceit, who had been set up as the first serious antagonist and was not touched for two years. Deceit, who had a history. Who had bad blood with Virgil of all sides. It was almost inevitable.

The most common use of this angst was in Deceit’s capacity as a manipulator. He had many parallels to Patton, often considered to be the leader of the Light Sides, and this led to him being considered leader of the Dark Sides. Virgil had defected from the dark, and hey, he had to have had a pretty good reason to defect, right? Most often, it was written either than Deceit had turned Virgil against the Light Sides and that Virgil had realised this, or that Deceit had been a perpetrator of abuse of any kind conceivable. This second interpretation soon spread, into Alternate Universes and everything beyond, with Deceit as a stand-in for any sort of villain. If you wanted to write a story about Virgil recovering from being physically, sexually, psychologically abused, he needed an abuser. High School!Virgil needed a bully. Fantasy!Virgil needed an evil leader to betray. All through this, Deceit’s name was a point of contention. He was the only side thus far not to have one, and while there was no real consensus, one of the most common was Damien, a name commonly associated with demons and evil.

Eventually, however, Deceit appeared again in 2019, when he butted heads with Patton for a full 40 minutes. Though he was rebuffed again, this episode shifted the common perception of Deceit almost entirely. As opposed to his first appearance, during which he appeared unilaterally sinister after imitating a beloved character for the sake of manipulation, this Deceit was charismatic. He was funny, he had good arguments, and many fans welcomed the ‘dimension’ that this brought to the series. They agreed with him, or thought that he had been railroaded by the bias against Dark Sides, or simply liked the cut of his jib. Thus, the tide began to turn against the conception of Deceit as solid evil. However, this was to face a mighty challenge in the coming months: the same black and white morality that Deceit himself was fighting  against.

While Virgil had been redeemed, many fans were much less willing to give credence to Deceit. After all, they had just spent two years building him up as the villain of all villains! He wasn’t the only one: there was also a theorised third Dark Side, usually called Anger or some variation, to parallel Logan’s fits of rage. However, Deceit had been the star of the show, and realising him as sympathetic would leave them without an incorrigable villain. A schism formed between those who liked and those who hated Deceit, and this culminated in the beginning of the sympathies: Sympathetic Deceit.

It was incredibly jarring for many fans, who had written Deceit as an manipulator and an abuser and all manner of other evils, to see him suddenly being discussed as if he was a good person. A call to action came, asking that people tag Deceit content which wasn’t wholehearted condemnation. Sympathetic Deceit, they called it, not wanting to see this character be treated with any kind of mercy or dimension. If it sounds like I have a grudge, well, my past kinship with Deceit is business of mine and mine alone.

However, Sympathetic Deceit was not the only tag to come out of this. Soon, as the Deceit sympathisers were beginning to question the morality of Deceit, this doubt spread to the Light Sides. The character that this most prominently affected was Patton, Deceit’s Light counterpart. What had previously been a cute, optimistic, paternal character was being analysed more closely. People were noticing his toxic positivity, his possessiveness, his holier-than-thou moral attitude. Before this point, any fanworks featuring conflict between the Light Sides was the result of misunderstanding or attitudes that changed by the end of the works. However, many people were angry and frustrated with Patton, and they began to write him as manipulative, as an antagonist, as Bad. He didn’t get redeemed in those. Thus was born the tag Unsympathetic Patton.

Unsympathetic was not the same as Evil or Bad; after all, that would have just been recreating the Light and Dark dichotomy, which Unsympathetic Patton was meant to break! Instead, Unsympathetic Patton fics had a few key characteristics. Firstly, he harmed the other sides, be it through malice or ignorance. Secondly, he did not grow from it. He was not redeemed and he did not apologise, and thus, there was no  way to Sympathise with him, to see him as more than a nameless villain to attack and run when their time was up.

This convention also spread to other characters – Unsympathetic Virgil, used in tandem with Sympathetic Deceit to paint Virgil as the one at fault for their falling out. Unsympathetic Roman, with his arrogance and proclivity for cutting remarks. Rarest of all was Unsympathetic Logan, but his calculating nature and quickness to anger earned him more than a few works. However, even today, Unsympathetic Patton Sanders is the most common unsympathy tag, though this is likely due to the fact that the tagging trend only came about after the two years of Deceit Villainy, so many Unsympathetic Deceit fics are not tagged as such.

There are many reasons why Patton was the most popular unsympathetic side. He was stubborn and obstinately positive, often pushing the emotions of the other Sides to the wayside. He held a position as a fatherly Christian arbiter of morality that felt wrong to many of the series’s young queer fans. His position as undisputed cinnamon roll of goodness left him far to fall. What matters most, though, is the way that this represents the growing schism between the two groups of fans, which had more in common than they would like to admit.

On one side: the people who had built up Deceit in their heads as this big, scary villain, and clung to their unsympathetic view of him even as the series went on and he became a squarely ‘sympathetic’ figure.

On the other side: people who were on Deceit’s side, and, often in backlash to the other side (some of whom hated Deceit because they were Patton fans), wrote more about Unsympathetic Light Sides. To widen the scape of stories being told, to get back at the Deceit haters, whatever their reasons.

The very next episode, three months after the sympathism schism began, in came Remus. A Dark Side representing intrusive thoughts, he was always going to be a divisive and triggering character. I only knew a new episode had come out because the top post on my dash was reminding people to tag for Sympathetic Remus. I was squarely in the Sympathetic Deceit camp, so I imagine that there was more ‘Unsympathetic Remus’ content outside of my circle that fell more into his placement as a Dark Side, but in my eyes, Remus himself was not the most impactful part of that episode on the fandom’s perception of characters. It was his backstory.

Remus was introduced as a character who represented ‘dark creativity’, such as gore, fetish, and sexuality, in contrast to Roman, who was ‘light’ creativity; romance, fantasy, adventure. Roman and Remus are twins, and the popular fan conception is that they were once one Creativity that was then split. This split is theorised to have come around because of Thomas wanting to distance himself from his unsettling thoughts, viewed through a Christian lens of bad thoughts meaning bad actions. This view is continually espoused by Patton, who was already being cast as Evil by the fanbase. Thus, on came the idea that Patton was directly responsible for Creativity being torn apart and Remus being cast into the Darkness, and on goes more slack to the fire.

In mid-2020, we got an epsiode focused around combatting the idea of Unsympathetic sides, and it’s another one focused around Deceit vs Patton. In this episode, Patton turns out to be the bad influence and Deceit is the one who ‘saves’ Thomas, revealing his name as Janus in a show of trust as Roman berates Thomas for trusting a Dark Side. Patton and Deceit talk about how much one can make mistakes before you should cut them out of your life, and Patton apologises. If I recall correctly, this did calm down some of the Patton haters; after all, he apologised and promised to do better going forward. However, many Patton Unsympathisers did not feel it was enough, or had simply fallen far enough into the groove of Unsympathetic Patton that it was familiar.

Since this episode, there have been side-stories and gag episodes, but no proper plot. Well, TV Tropes tells me that that fabled Anger side has been foreshadowed, but that’s irrelevant for now. I don’t really know how to wrap up this essay, because it’s not like there’s been a conclusion to this. There are still people who hate Deceit and who hate Patton, though they are much lower in numbers than they once were. From what I remember, Unsympathetic Sides became seen as more of a story convention than a representation of true feelings. Sides are seen as unsympathetic for specific AUs where they fit the villains.

To this day, 3 years since its introduction, the Sympathy tagging system is still used. Out of the 20 most recent Sanders Sides fics on AO3, five of them were tagged with some variation of Sympathy or Unsympathy, a ratio shared by the most recent Deceit fics in particular.

I guess this acts as a word of caution against hiatus-brain and ignoring canon for the sake of fanon. Mostly, it acts as a place for me to vent the absolute shitshow that was the fandom. The shitshow that probably still is the fandom. Any current fans, feel free to correct me, I fell out of it around late 2020.

Don’t watch this series. It is not good.

[an-organized-confusion]

I just wanted to arrange the Sides on Color Wheels.

First being Subtractive (associated with pigments/inks/paints; traditional media). Second being Additive (computers/lights; digital media).

I’m more than sure that the Opposite Relationships intended in the series is the first one here. But what I thought was interesting about opposites is the fact they’re also known as “complementary colors“.

Roman and Remus complement each other to encompass the full spectrum of Creativity.

Janus and Virgil complement each other by including two aspects of self-preservation (social/mental and physical realms, roughly).

Logan and Orange complements for each other is unknown thus far. There’s so many potentially interesting theories out there. But maybe Logan’s objective/external knowledge and Orange’s subjective/internal knowledge? (Lends credence to people thinking he could represent Fairness/Justice. And how Wrath is usually an expression coming from those values...)

This kinda leaves Patton the odd one out. Although he’s a split complement to Orange... take of it what you will.

How about the additive stuff and their complements (taking some ideas from this old post)?

Remus and Virgil - They intensify the relationship between fear and imagination. Horror and other provocative arts wouldn’t exist without anxieties (and excitation) over their subjects.

Janus and Logan - They have the most sophisticated grasp on rhetoric. Logic/information may not get through to people without some persuasive techniques. Persuasion doesn’t really work with non sequiturs.

Roman and Patton - I think they’re most strongly associated with idealism and how to act on those values. They can intensify each other - Roman being Ego and a boundary function becomes more defined.

Orange would be the odd one out. Patton and Logan are roughly split complements with him. What could intensify their combined functions... well, Ethos is important with Pathos and Logos. Knowing what you believe, what you know, and where you’re coming from. (Which has some overlap with concepts like Fairness.)

I also had some thoughts about analogous (neighboring; subtly different from subtractive system with different primary colors/proximity) colors, there a while back...

With light, the color yellow comes from mixing red and green together. So like, adds a dimension to Janus’s affinity for the Creativities. As well, adds that affinity that the twins would have with the concept of deception - thanks to how creative endeavors like storytelling and acting inherently calls on a bit of that (especially wrt suspension of disbelief and misdirections.)

That said if we continue with this additive theory - it has interesting weird implications…

Cyan comes from mixing green and blue. How Patton/Morality would cohere Logan and Remus is kind of amusing. Like perhaps, Patton could be the Heart Check whenever it comes to their spiels, taking a moment to reorient thought trains toward integrity/compassion (which, to varying degrees, may be less of a priority between these two). Interesting potential for dynamics, actually.

Magenta comes from mixing blue and red. I guess there IS that underlying tension tying a lot of executive functions to needing optimal levels of anxiety to even happen. [Virgil] Can be a fire under both Logan and Roman’s asses - helping to triage stuff for Logan and to motivate both to do a good job (where appropriate - funny thing about the Yerkes-Dodson curve is that simple tasks don’t run with that as much - depending on what you call a simple task, sometimes you just need to get that shit over with ASAP).

[Orange being a tertiary color in this system & having not been introduced yet, didn’t bring him up here.]

Uh, what do y’all think?

[fangirls-just-want-to-have-fun]

I have no idea how best to communicate this, but there should be a Side named Ethan.

Let me explain this one.

So it is fully canon that Patton and Logan are named after “pathos” (appealing to emotion) and “logos” (appealing to logic) AKA two of the persuasive appeals coined by Aristotle. The third is “ethos”, which is the act of appealing to one’s character.

So basically I have no idea how this would possibly fit in, but the name is so easily RIGHT THERE and as Patton pointed out, three of the Sides’ names already end in -an/-on, so it fits.

If this was a thing, I don’t think it would be the Orange Side, because the Orange Side has been hinted as being one of the Dark Sides, and so far all the Dark Sides’ names end in -us, and have Roman (like the country) origin

Not really sure what the side would be or how it would even tie into anything, but I think having a side that somehow appeals to character named Ethan (like I said because "ethos”) just makes a lot of sense

now obviously that would break the balance of Dark/Light Sides on either side of Virgil but just think about it that would make Virgil like SO UNCOMFORTABLE like “oh god am I supposed to be back with the Dark Sides now that there’s an uneven balance” idk just something to think about

I feel like I’m onto something but have NO idea where to go from here so Fanders please help a gal out

[cats-pyjamas]

LOGICALITY PLSSSS

❥ ask / @sunflower-avo-tea

send me a ship and i’ll give my opinion on it!!

*kicks down door*

IN THIS ESSAY I WILL-

okay so i honestly don’t even know where to start with this because I just got a lotta feelings and I don’t know how to write them all down and I’m so sorry that this is so ramble-y and incoherent but-

basically logicality is like. my ultimate comfort ship?? I absolute adore the ‘stoic nerd and soft cinnamon roll’ trope and you can pry it out of my cold dead hands-

the fact that they’re complete opposites yet can see the value in the other and their contributions (even if they argue and it takes a while for them to realise it in some situations) and admit when they’re wrong in order to validate the other like I just HHHH even the way they look at each other? like I’m probably just overthinking it way too much but like they’ll just glance at each other from across the room with genuine care and it just looks like they always look for the other’s validation in what they’re saying (more so on Patton’s end) because they want the other’s approval and consider their opinion important and I just-

ALSO THE PUNS ??? the way logan tries to hide that side of him because he wants to desperately be taken seriously but there’s moments when he allows himself to indulge in it and he just looks so happy?? like the 12 days of christmas song, when he was trying not to laugh at patton changing the lyrics and then started doing it with him, it was like he was allowing Patton to help him break down the facade a bit and I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS

they’re also both such dads in different ways that i think really complement each other- logan being the practical one who focuses on reviewing facts and using logical reasoning in order to make the best decisions to care for yourself and patton being bubbly and fun and putting the focus on happiness just makes me...really happy like. you can see it in their interactions with virgil and thomas- logan has this sort of calmness about him where he’s able to be observant and notice when something’s wrong, and also provide comfort in his own way with clarity and understanding and reassurance. patton on the other hand is a ball of energy and uses lots of affirmation, homemade gifts, and jokes to communicate care in a much more sentimental way and i just love the possibilities of how they can play off each other and help to balance the other out

there’s also just all these moments that i’m gonna list here because i think about them all the time and they make me so happy and i have so much to say-:

* logan almost calling patton a genius in learning new things (!!)- “patton you’re-! ...good. that was...helpful.”

* patton cheering logan on while he raps

* him also giving patton all the credit for helping to figure out how to deal with procrastination despite it probably being a hit to his own pride- “and it’s all thanks to a brilliant deduction- from watson”

* ALSO “elementary my dear daddy- no” AND IT SAYING ‘(ship)’ IN THE CAPTIONS??????

* logan being flustered/impressed by patton (janus) knowing about kant and philosophy, and also by him saying ‘oh good logan-everyone’s favourite character!!’ because he thought it was patton saying it and patton would be sincere about something like that

* “morality? what are we doing wrong?” - logan valuing their differences and realising that patton is important

* PATTON CALLING LOGAN HIS HERO??? AND LOGAN’S “WE GET IT. YOU’RE ADORABLE” I LOSE MY MIND EVERY TIME LIKE,,, patton literally admires logan and everything he does so much and thinks he’s so cool and I ADORE THIS

* matching logos!!!!!

* matching onesies!!!!!

* the entire head vs heart episode where they can’t grasp why thomas would ever imply that they argue / don’t get along because thomas don’t you get it we’re married?????

* their names matching- patton from ‘pathos’ and logan from ‘logos’

* THE ENTIRETY OF MOVING ON??????? logan’s face when it’s clear patton is hurt by what he’s saying/tells him to stop !!

* also him helping patton open up about his feelings through thomas (“I’m your happy pappy patton, just a fun loving father figure figment-!” “falsehood”) because he never really left and knew the others still needed him

* also him giving up his own pride and admitting he’s wrong!! and he creates a thoughtful gift for patton that he knows he’ll love as an apology even if he thinks it’s childish (and it’s a direct callback to his own behaviour towards patton and contribution towards him hiding his feelings which is kind of represented by the fact that he wouldn’t let him wear his cat onesie despite patton saying his old cardigan was getting him down, and it’s logan’s own way of telling him that he doesn’t have to let his emotions weigh him down anymore)

* also logan short circuiting with “this is just too precious to process-“

* also logan checking up on him and smiling when he seems to be doing well: “patton, how are you today?”/“well, that is very good to hear.” also patton looking at him when he talks about the thought of seeing the others helping him leave his room!!

* also patton making a pun that logan’s cool and that “you’re my biggest fan!!” (and logan doesn’t deny it)

* logan having patton help him with his jam advert even though he’s probably the least scientifically minded person among the sides-

* patton looking for logan’s approval when he says a word in spanish and wanting him to be proud of him - “did I make you proud logan?? you proud of me??”

* patton just always seems particularly excited to see logan and it makes me so happy

* THE FAM-ILY CARD WHERE PATTON DREW THEM LINKING ARMS AND SMILING???

* “with you i’m always home”- this is getting way too long so I won’t even GO into this one but FUCK they’re gay

* “yeah but did you see logan’s face?” - logan apparently seeming upset by janus implying patton didn’t want him there, and also patton being upset at the implication/by roman finding it funny

* the instagram story where patton calls logan “the good looking one”

* THE INCORRECT QUOTES?? TELL ME THEY WERENT ON A DATE WHEN THEY WERE GOING OUT TO A RESTAURANT JUST THE TWO OF THEM?? also logan literally assuming the role of a getaway driver no questions asked when patton steals a whole ass table because he thinks that’s what logan wants him to do?? be gay do crime

* logan helping patton during intrusive thoughts by being firm yet understanding and patton listening to him and calling him amazing and oh my god my heart-

* (also logan ordering a birthday cake for patton!!!)

i won’t go on any longer because this is already a mess but...just please oh my god @ everyone please please please talk to me about logicality anytime because I just adore everything about them and I just HHH

tldr: patton and logan please adopt me

[mysticnachophilosopher]

I have a few theories that I would like to share.

The Sides don't know each other's names prior to Name Reveals.

(This is the one I'm going to get shit for) Patton thought he and Logan were twins.

Logan and Patton didn't meet until the first Episode of Sanders Sides.

These theories point to one very large potential fact that we've overlooked, Logan is not Logic's name.

So, the first theory is canon. Patton didn't know any of the Dark Sides', or Roman's name until they shared them with Thomas. Patton knows things that Thomas knows, so why would Patton have known Logan's name? The answer stems from the second and third theories. If Patton hadn't met Logic before the first Episode, then he would be unaware of his Lookalike on the Left Side of the brain. Another important distinction, Logic is a left brain function, while emotions, creativity, and the fear center, all reside on the right side of the brain. There is no reason that Logic would have interacted with any Side other than Deceit, another Left Brain function, prior to the beginning of the series.

However, Patton being emotionally cognizant comes into play when he realizes that he has a doppelganger in Logic. He makes the similarities between them clear, "Hey, we have the same glasses!" Logic, noting the similarities in appearance, but not in function does not feel any kind of identifiable kinship with Morality, but Morality, who exists on the Right Brain with the Twins, is more open to the possibility that he might have a twin on the Left Side.

Patton has self proclaimed tendency to theorize about the other Sides' names. So what if Patton thinks Logic's name is Logan because it should follow the same line of thinking as Morality to Pathos to Patton. Logic to Logos to Logan. When Patton first calls Logic Logan in front of Thomas, Logic's initial reaction is one of confusion, but he rolls with it, assuming this is some foolish antic of Morality's.

So, essentially, Patton named Logic. Further proof of this occurs in the 12 Days of Sanders, Logic is confused by Roman's count of 5 Name Reveals, now they explain this away by Roman saying Thimas introduced himself, to which Logan replied that is a stretch. But Logan takes most things literally, it isn't hard to think that he doesn't consider the revelation of his name as a Name Reveal.

So now that I've established some evidence for my theory, now comes the fun part, theorizing what Logic's name might be.

Some variation on the name Cassandra.

Apollo

Okay. Going out of order here, I dont think it's likely that Logic's real name is Apollo. Sure, the Wrath of the Sun God is kind of fitting, and Logan does make "seething flames in the side of my face" references a lot, and he was the god of Music and Poetry, but eh, Apollo just wasn't very Logical.

But here's the thing I've been wanting to talk about, I think Logic's name might be some variation of Cassandra. Cassandra in myth was cursed with the gift of prophecy, which some might argue Logic has, he is able to analyze situations and predict outcomes, which is as close as a person can get to prophecy these days. And here's the kicker, Cassandra was cursed to give accurate prophecies that would....

Always be ignored.

It didn't matter that she would accurately predict the outcomes of major battles, she was cursed to always be dismissed. Just the way that Thomas and the other Sides have ignored Logic's teachings, leading to dilemmas repeating themselves, like Patton's repression, or Roman's struggle with inspiration.

Another supporting fact is that the other Sides all have names pertaining to History or Myth, Roman, Remus, and Janus, Roman Mythology. Patton and Virgil, a great general and author respectively, but Logan doesn't really have those connotations. It just sounds kind of like Logic.

Then there's what Logan says in the end card of the most recent video, "I wish Apollo had more of an influence on today," a comment about Thomas' Vitamin D deficiency, or a complaint about his lack of foresight involving Remus' shenanigans throughout the day?

Anyway TL:DR, Logan might not be Logic's name and I have a couple theories what it might be.

[hedgeyart]

i want u to know that ppl wanted his name to be Ethan because Patton's name was based on Pathos, Logan's name was based on Logos-- people figured Janus would be Ethos- Ethan

No yeah, I totally understand the logic behind it! I just don't think it suits him.

To be fair, I don't know who could've predicted Janus of all things.

[tower-of-deceit]

The Orange Side's Logo Theory

I have a theory that I came up with a whole ago, and I figured I should post it sooner rather than later, because I think there's a chance that the next sanders sides episode could either make or break this theory.

Basically, I noticed something about the sides' logos which I decided to use to predict things about the next logo to be revealed, which will belong to the Orange side, and that could also help to predict what the orange side will represent.

Each side's logo tends to share a style with at least one other logo, and the sides that had matching logos are linked in some way.

Take Logan, Patton, and Deceit's logo, for example. They are all noticably in the same style. They all consist of two colours; one block colour for the inside, and another different colour for the outline. They are also a very simple style with smooth lines, and the actual image, for two of them at least, are linked: a heart and a brain.

The reasons for these three sides having may be because of how These three sides represent the modes of persuasion. Logan represents Logos - logical persuasion, Patton represents Pathos - emotional person, and Deceit may represent Ethos - credibility/ethical persuasion.

Roman and Remus's logos are more obviously the same style, and for more obvious reasons. They both use two colours, very detailed designs compaired with other logos we've seen, and they both have linking subject matter: sword and a shield, sun and moon, firse and water, ect. Roman and Remus obviously have matching logos because they both represent creativity.

Virgil's logo, however, is a different style to all of the other logos - the outline is far more sketchy, there are more than two colours, there is a pattern in this design, ect. The actual image of a storm cloud has no connection to any of the other logos as well.

I thought it was slightly odd that, unlike all the other sides, Virgil does not have a side who's logo matches with his, but after thinking about it, it makes sense. Roman and Remus have matching Logos because they are linked. Logan, Patton, and Deceit are connected because they are linked. Virgil doesn't have a connection with another side like this, he's actually rather different from the other sides. He represents anxiety - one singular emotion that is seen as negative. No other side's main funtion is a singular emotion. Also Patton, who we know represents a lot of Thomas's feelings, doesn't represent fear/anxiety.

My theory is that the orange side will somehow link to Virgil, and therefore would have a logo that is in the same style as Virgil's one, because then Virge would not be the odd one out. Now the question is, what could the orange side represent that would be similar to Anxiety in the sence that it is a singular negative emotion that Patton does not already represent? Anger! Well, probably a synonym of that, eg, frustration or rage. Anger, like anxiety, is a singular emotion that's generally seen as negative, and is not shown in the series to already be represented by Patton.

Now, back to logos. If the orange side does have a connection to Virgil by being anger/frustration/rage, then his logo would match with Virgil's, making to so that Virge's logo doesn't stand out like it already does. Now the question is, what would Anger's logo actually be? Well, think about it; Virgil's logo is linked with the weather, as it's a storm cloud, so we can assume that Anger's logo will also be linked with weather. I think that it will look somthing like this:

The reason I think it will be a sun, is because anger as an emotion is often associated with heat/fire, and warm colours. Of course this is just an educated guess as to what it may be, and it may not even be a sun. @fearfuldeception suggested it could be a tornado, and that could also work for it's own reasons, but whatever it is, I'm like 98% sure that it will link to Virgil's in some way or another.

[sweetea-rosey]

Orange Theories (This is a lot of Series analysis explaining the theories)

Part 1

Name- Thomas and the other seem to go with names based off of Roman mythology. Logan and Patton being an exception, being based off of the greek Logos and Pathos.

So- the greek god of war is Aries and the Roman god of war is Mars. So, my two top name theories are 'Marshal' and 'Aaron.'

Alternately, the Greek goddess of rage Lyssa/Lytta- which leaves room for names such as Lyle or Lyon (which would be a cool route to go- it sounds like Lion, an animal known for pride. And ignoring this being Roman's trait, those who have the sin of pride over taking them often lash out when that's threatened.)

As to his relationship with the others...I feel that he would be Logan's opposite. Logan wouldn't like him much, at least. Anger is irrational and has the ability to blind someone- to block out logic.

You could argue that Virgil would be like this, too, but if you think about it, fear has the ability to be calmed down with logic- Virgil never blocked him out. In the debate they had, Virgil didn't want to participate, and granted, his views were irrational. But even Logan admitted that Virgil followed some logical forms of thinking- he had reasons for his doubts. And, even then, if he, himself, didn't listen to Logan, he never stopped Thomas from doing so. He let Logan say his piece and calm Thomas down. He and Logan worked together.

Another piece, is that Remus would be Logan's opposite. He's chaotic and random, he doesn't follow a line of logic and he's irrational...or is he? Remus spouts random nonsense half the time, but he's never very wrong, is he?

"I didn't make him throw the baby, I merely gave him a baby...and a large... sharp knife..."

Doesn't that make sense? Yes, he's random, "ERECT! Remember that... erection medicine?"

But, that was because Logan said "Erect."

He works based off of word association (it's not the time for word association games.)

Certain words trigger Remus' train of thought. We do it all the time, just because it's not clean doesn't make it illogical. If someone says "red" you think if the the color or something you know that has the word associated with it.

When Remus hears "erect" he thinks "erection" and something that has the word associated with it.

Logan likes word association games because they're logical and make sense.

Not to mention, he's technically everyone's opposite. He's immoral, brutally honest, brave and extroverted, chaotic.

He's not even Roman's opposite. Roman's opposite is Virgil; fear.

So, Remus is a wild card. He identifies as "Intrusive thoughts" and "Dark Creativity". But even Roman admitted that Creativity follows some form of Logic, otherwise they would be random and that's never funny (demonstrated by Patton.) And the twins are just two sides of the same coin.

Furthermore, if you look at the series, so far, the Light Sides have an arch of having to learn how to deal with and accept their opposites.

The series can be broken up into two seasons; Anxiety and Deceit.

Anxiety: Roman has to learn Virgil's importance to the group and accept him as a helpful part of Thomas.

Confidence;Doubt Bravery;Fear

Deceit; Patton has to learn that being selfish is okay, sometimes, and that Deceit does, have some beneficial contributions.

Honesty;Lying Generosity;Selfishness

Remus never got such an arch, he was thrown into the middle of Janus' as a result of Thomas not taking care of himself. Remus is a result of deminishing mental health. I imagine he's more of a wild card, just showing up every now and then to mess with the others.

Logan had no problem with Remus. He never recognized him as a threat and he just camly dealt with him.

So, that makes the next step or "season" to be about Logan's rival.

Rage blocks out Logic. It often doesn't make sense, especially in the heat of the moment. It only makes things worse and you causes people to often forget why they're so angry. They forget logic, only registering rage at something.

I predict that the next normal SS episode will be the beginning of season 3; Rage.

Irrational;Reasonable Passionate;Cool

Energy;Calm

Patton's gonna not like him. He'll believe that he ruins relationships and causes Thomas to be mean. (I.e. when he got upset because Thomas deamed his friends as effable.)

Janus is gonna try to convince them that anger can be okay. That it's important to let yourself be angry at others, seeing as it's recognizing your own worth and importance and recognizing and validating how you were hurt and allows yourself to work through that pain; because you acknowledge its presence and impact.

Logan would try to help, but Rage would make nonsensical arguments that Logan doesn't know how to logically dispute. Y'know those times when you know something is wrong, but they say it in a way they sounds viable and you don't know where to start unwinding it? Yeah.

Rage would probably support Roman (my poor boy- the dark sides keep picking on him-)

He'd tell Roman that his anger at the others is justified and that he deserves an apology. This is getting into Pride!Roman territory. But, I don't think Thomas and the team would do that. It would be more like- Roman is hurt, tired, and confused. At the beginning of Rage's arch, he'd be fed up with feeling like he can't do anything right by the lightsides. And then having to be friends with someone who was only using him. So, he'd side with the anger who'd be telling him that he's valid and that his feelings matter, too.

And, I think Rage would believe it. He wouldn't just be using Roman, he'd really be friends with him, because he knows/thinks that Roman's anger is justified.

And, again, Remus is a wild card. All the side will probably have their ups and down with him.

Virgil would probably side with Patton and be bitter at Roman for backing him.

I think this would be the last of the dark sides, and then it would shift into working on personal issues.

Roman's insecurity and relationship with Remus. Logan's emotional isolation, Janus and Virgil's trust issues and violent relationship and Virgil's life with them, Patton's emotional suppression, ect.