#also the part with the ghuls in context of it being a possible batman reference...

[drowningin666fandoms]

Am I the only one who noticed that the Shadow of Mordor Appendices entry on Morgul Bats fairly specifically says that those bitten by them hallucinate Batman of all people?

For those not believing me, here's the actual statement in the entry which I am referring to: "The poison slowly eats at their minds, sending them nightmares of a demonic man-bat who preys on fear."

Which, given that inspiring fear is Batman's whole point of the costume, sounds an awful lot like it would be him rather than Manbat.

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

i saw a tweet earlier today regarding barbie and oppenheimer and I realized how I haven't seen a lot of people talking about the potential anti-asian racism and whitewashing in the oppenheimer movie considering that it's a biopic set during world war 2 (tbf, I haven't gone through the oppenheimer tags on tumblr and twitter). I just know that those parts are gonna be overlooked due to being a Christopher Nolan movie

ok just for context i'm gonna paste the trailer for oppenheimer here

So I haven't talked about the inherent racism of making a tragic hero out of Oppenheimer on here but I want to clarify I'm not Asian and I'm not Japanese and I would like those voices prioritized here.

If you don't know much about Christopher Nolan besides yay batman movies... you gotta know a few things about him. Even in his batman trilogy he whitewashed nonwhite characters. Notably Ras Al Ghul, Talia Al Ghul and Bane. i'm not going to delve into how his movies besides tenet predominantly featured white casts. but just take that as a fact. Tenet was an exception not the general rule of his filmography.

Moving on for those that don't know about Oppenheimer I'm gonna refer you to a few wiki articles

First Oppenheimer

and now his legacy the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Even though I'm referring you largely to wikipedia articles you gotta understand followers that the casualty numbers are wrong on article

mainly the bottom number of 129,000-226,000 killed.

Like that may not seem like much heck its not even the population of San Francisco. But you gotta understand that these numbers are wrong for the plain and simple fact that Japanese people around Hiroshima and Nagasaki also were affected with radiation and like chernobyl some died quick deaths and others died slow deaths. So you can't really put a number to that sort of devastation.

There's this narrative in the USA that in WWII we did everything possible to stop the nazis. But instead of focusing on the devastation of the bombings we're focusing on a tragic white man who from the beginning understood what this bomb would do??? Like yes he was haunted there's even this

So like we have this narrative of a tragic antihero that saved us from war with the axis but then was haunted by what it had cost him. And what I can't understand is why we revere him so much. This is as much a movie about USAmerican ingenuity as it is about how poor widdle Oppenheimer created the most powerful weapons in history and was haunted by it.

I haven't seen it but its very telling that Nolan didn't choose to depict the horror of the bombings and instead the single tragic man that choose to create them.

honestly its sickening. because now Cillian is gonna get nominated for his role as Oppenheimer, they're going to shove it down our throats that old USAmerican propaganda that we needed to bomb the Japanese to stop the war even tho nazis were defeated already. the Japanese were still fighting but we had them out manned and out gunned.

Don't let anyone tell you that this movie isn't propaganda.

mod ali

[eastonia-blog]

Let's Chat about these Reversed Aged!Robins AUs

So recently I replied to @gentlemenpaws generalask!post which said…

And I thought I would go a little into my reply to him. Because and hear me out.

I can never take reversed ages Robin headcanons and stories seriously. Without turning off my brain a little. And please, please, please just hear me out.

There is a reason why.

(TLDR at the bottom of this long post)

1) This is the most important reason. Say it with me. THERE IS NO ROBIN WITHOUT DICK GRAYSON.

Think about all other ‘sidekick’ or 'junior partner’ characters. With the exception of maybe Speedy, what are their names and costumes? Aqualad, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Super Girl, Super Boy, Bat Girl, Miss Martian... You know, the famous ones? The ones that all based their costumes in echo of their mentors (and yes, I’m including Roy Harper here, Speedy’s costume is a mirror of Green Arrow’s - in red).

So why doesn’t Batman’s apprentice call himself Batboy? Why is his design so divergent from Batman’s? (Okay I understand there’s other reasons but I’m trying to stay in universe/lore here). Depending on the continuity, when Barbara Gordon/Betty Kane became Batgirl she followed the trend. Robin’s identity although associated with the Bat, can stand alone without context.

Why Robin? Why the traffic lights? Something that has been shown time and time again (despite continuity differences and all) is that Robin was Dick’s pet name, from Mary Grayson, his mum. Again depending on the continuity, Mary Grayson called Dick Robin because:-

1)  He was “...always bobbin’ along.” (Pre-Flashpoint Robin: Year One)

Interesting because it could either refer to his skill in acrobatics or a tendency to get underfoot because of his curiousity.

2) Born on the first day of Spring. 

Or...

 3) Just as a tease because he just really, really loved the stories of Robin Hood.

The traffic light colouration he chose for his costume, even the design of his costume? Well if you take a look at most of the Dick Grayson origin stories (Pre-Flashpoint: Robin Year One, Batman Year Three. Post-Rebirth: Batman #54 just to name a couple examples) the Grayson aerialist costume is... Red, Green and Yellow. The proportions of the colours and presence of a cape vary but traffic lights are Grayson colours.

Robin was Dick Grayson’s tribute to his dead family.*

*Part of the reason why Dick got so hurt that Bruce gave Robin away to Jason was because Bruce forgot that Robin was not his to give. This is why the other Pre-Flashpoint comics had Dick give Tim his blessing to become Robin. And then outright have Dick give the R to Damian. Jason eventually got Dick’s blessings but by that point, the relationship was never going to start from the best place.

2) Damian as the first 'apprentice’ would not work. Why? BRUCE WOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED LONG ENOUGH. (I can hear all the cries of ’But he’s Batman!’ ring out).

Dick and Bruce met super early into Bruce’s career as Batman.

Remember how pre-Batman Bruce went about as a generic vigilante without a moniker or anything? And got his butt kicked so hard by the Gotham streets that it took a bat crashing through a window to convince him to try again?

Pre-Robin Batman was characterised by one thing:- Recklessness. He knew sooner or later Gotham was going to claim his life and that he would probably be going sooner rather than later.

He spent a lot of time recovering in those days. Maybe more than he did catching lowlifes or solving crimes.

And then everything changed when the Flying Graysons fell.

The crime that touched Dick mirrored the crime that affected Bruce. (It’s actually pretty interesting from a meta standpoint. The Waynes died in a circle of light - under a Park Row streetlight and the Graysons paralleled that with the spotlight remaining on them long after they hit the ground.)

And Bruce looked into the eyes of little 8-10 year-old Dick Grayson, and saw himself. But more than that, he (Bruce) saw an opportunity to change things for him (Dick). So that Dick would not end up like him.

(Want to know a cool thing? The reason why Dick’s relationship with Bruce is different to the approach Bruce took to Jason, Tim and Damian? Age difference. Bruce is about 14-18 years older than Dick. Putting him in that weird spot where you could simultaneously be a teen parent or an older sibling. Bruce has a more Older-Brother-Promoted-to-Parent relationship with Dick than father-son. It’s why in the Rebirth Nightwing vs Hush Prelude to the Wedding issue, Dick thought he could be a candidate for Best Man).

This is also the reason why I love Dick’s and Damian’s relationship so much is because it directly parallels Bruce’s and his. I don’t quite know what the age difference is post-Rebirth (and I tend to outright ignore the New 52 at times) but since Rebirth tends to mirror Pre-Flashpoint more than not, I think the age difference between Dick and Damian is about... 14-16 years? Again, simultaneously a teen parent and older sibling.

This is also why I don’t think a Damian as the first Dark Squire would work, because Bruce would not be in a good place to help out a child. Nor will there be the same connection that there was between him and Dick. Damian being first would probably ruin Batman for ever taking on someone in the ‘apprentice’ role.

So after Bruce (eventually, inevitably) takes Dick in, Bruce is forced to realise that he has to be more careful because he has to be there for Dick.

This is when Bruce fully embraces the amount of Crazy Prepared he’d need to be to be.

And then Dick (at 8-10 years-old! Seriously we talk about the amount of detective skill Tim has to figure out Batman’s and Robin’s identities... But we don’t talk about the amount of charisma, courage and will it takes to out-stubborn the Batman???) makes his way onto the streets (and Bruce can’t stop him so he has to help him). So now what does Bruce have to do?

There is a rule medics and first responders have to follow: Protect yourself in order to save others.

Bruce is no longer allowed to accept dying as an option (until Dick is old enough to take care of himself). This forces Batman to work situations to his advantage so Batman and Robin can both come home.

Basically, Dick made Batman evolve into the Batman we know and expect today.

Batman’s relationship with the police significantly improved after Dick Grayson debuted as Robin. Batman’s relationship with other Justice Leaguers improved after Dick Grayson debuted as Robin. Batman’s relationship with Wonder Woman and especially Superman/Clark Kent improved after Robin.

So let’s remove Dick from the lineup and stick him at the end as the youngest then. And... put Damian as the eldest son... that’s... not going to work.

Hey Damian. Where did you go?

Remember the timeline. Without Dick as the eldest Bruce can continue to be reckless. Batman was a suicide mission until Robin stepped in.

No Dick? Batman continues to be reckless. Reckless Batman? Dead Batman. The Al Ghuls and the League of Shadows/Assassins? Probably would have nuked Gotham and Bludhaven. Also Damian Wayne will not have his male genetic donor because... Without Dick Grayson as the eldest son/brother? Batman would not have survived to catch the eye of the League of Shadows/Assassins.

It is necessary for Dick to be the ‘eldest son’ otherwise the rest of Bat!Lore will not fall into place. Dick was Bruce’s more traditionally heroic foil from the start without which we would have a dead Bruce Wayne before Batman could take off. 

TLDR:

Robin was created as Dick’s Tribute to his dead family. If Dick wasn’t the oldest - Batman’s partner (if he would even have one!) would NOT be called Robin.

Bruce and Dick met very early into his career as Batman. If they didn’t meet Bruce would have carried on his reckless path and possibly DIED before Damian could even be ‘conceived’.

And that, my friends, is the tea.

Tagging @theflyingwonder as inspiration of this particular meta

[batfamquotes]

LMAO I forgot there are people who don’t know that talia al-ghul had sex with jason todd

that’s like people not knowing nightwing once kissed catwoman

this came up because https://shewhotellsstories.tumblr.com reblogged this

https://incorrectbatfamiliaquotes.tumblr.com/post/180702420910/jason-todd-i-hadnt-felt-that-messed-up-mentally

and their tags were basically asking did talia commit a statutory rape upon jason

and I realized wow people really don’t know that story and have zero context.

so I want to clarify just what happened between talia and jason 

for the record, I’m not justifying what happens, I’m just explaining the events as they occurred. 

(warning: this gets long)

SO! 

in red hood the lost days we’re shown what jason todd was doing in between getting resurrected, crawling out of his grave, and terrorizing batman when he comes back to gotham as red hood.

where was he?

with talia al-ghul

what was he doing?

getting training from the best teachers she picked out for him

and then killing the ones who turned out to be morally corrupt.

after crawling out of his grave, jason spent 5 months wandering around, then hospitalized, then back to wandering the streets before the al-ghuls found him and brought him to one of their compounds

then after a year of trying and failing to figure out how he came back from the dead, ra’s deemed jason a lost cause. jason had shown that he was a master combatant but he wasn’t all there, not mentally. now this could be because of the obvious trauma he’d been through, and an effect of being resurrected & being described as half dead. it’s very possible he had brain damage, and probably never would have recovered completely or maybe he would have, over a period of several years.

but talia didn’t have that option. ra’s forbid her to tell batman that his son was in her care and custody. and he decided that jason would leave them and be cared for in secret, since in his eyes he wasn’t improving. 

so talia sped up the process. she shoved jason into her father’s lazarus pit, gave him a survival kit, and helped him escape the al-ghul compound.

why? why do all this? well it’s implied that talia hoped to restore jason to the boy he once was, then she’d return him to batman who would be grateful in kind and love talia back.

but it’s pointed out that the chances of that happening aren’t high, and that the longer talia kept jason from bruce, the more likely it would be that bruce would be angry with her for keeping his son from him and not letting him know jason was alive.

after the dip in the lazarus pit, jason’s mental faculties are back to working order, and the pits healing factor works on his body as well, giving him a very late growth spurt.

it’s believed the lazarus pit made jason go “crazy” when he went on his vengeance driven kill spree but all it did for him mentally was undo his brain damage, throughout lost days and under the red hood jason’s got a clear moral stance and is driven by anger. yes he’s violent, but he’s coherent.

after reconnecting with talia, jason tells her he wants to kill batman for not avenging him and asks for her help, which she gives, while also stalling him by insisting he gain training in a variety of fields.

which he does. he’s an incredibly fast learner.

during that time, talia helps jason financially, paying for his livelihood and his teachers that she picks out for him

as his goals change, during the story he meets with talia on several occasions, telling her of his progress and plans. she’s a major part of his life, but he’s left to his own devices.

at the end of the series, talia tells jason that her father is dead by batman’s hand, and encourages him to gain vengeance on bruce, for slights made against him and her.

she then pulls jason towards her, and kisses him. he kisses her back, they fall to the bed, making out, and they have sex.

since up until that point jason had been focusing on training, and no mention of any love interests are made, there’s no reason to think he would have had penetrative sex before this, so it’s pretty clear that talia takes jason’s virginity. and yes, virginity is a social construct but for the narrative’s sake let’s call it what it is.

now, when jason comes back from the dead, it’s 6 months after he’s been buried.

at that point, jason was 15

in red hood the lost days it’s clear that a couple years pass between talia helping jason escape, his training, and the time they have sex.

so the timeline is, 15-16, being taken care of by talia, going on the run, deciding to murder batman

16-17, training from different teachers, learning new skills batman hadn’t taught him

18, giving up on murdering batman, and choosing to enact revenge instead, then talia takes his virginity

(for reference, he’s two years older than tim drake who was 16 when jason came back to gotham in under the red hood, so at the end of lost days jason is 18)

here is jason with talia in issue 1

look at how small and tiny he is. just like the malnourished robin he once was. he’s 15 at this point.

this is them in issue 2

he’s clearly older here, but not by much, he’s at least 16.

and here they are in issue 3, you can see jason’s aging, he’s either still 16 or he’s 17

and in issue 4, he’s either a late 17 or an early 18 here at this point in the story.

sidenote, jason with long hair and scruff is a LOOK!

and this is the Moment where they have sex in issue 6 when jason is 18

and the aftermath

I’m pretty sure that’s a condom wrapper next to the phone.

compare jason in issue 1 to issue 6. he goes from a teen to an adult, and the transitions are obvious.

NOW

let’s get into the why.

it’s clear that talia is most likely using jason to get at bruce, but along the way she grows to care for jason.

it should be noted that at that point jason is still emotionally a mess from everything, and talia is dealing with her father’s death, so they’re two compromised individuals seeking comfort in one another. it’s cathartic. but that doesn’t make it healthy. 

from the ages of 15 to 18 talia is jason’s primary caretaker. she doesn’t raise him, she’s not his mother, not biologically, legally, or technically. but she is a mother figure to him.

and talia is significantly older than jason, being in either her late 20s or early 30s

they aren’t unaware of their connection through batman, talia being his ex and jason being his adopted son

basically their having sex is a literal and figurative way of saying ‘screw you’ to the man

so their connection through bruce, age difference, power imbalanced relationship in the lost days story line, and their emotionally vulnerable states means that their having sex is unhealthy and it’s meant to be seen that way, it’s not supposed to be “hot” or good.

talia throughout the story manipulates jason into being the type of man bruce refuses to be, one who kills without hesitation.

but I wouldn’t say she takes advantage of him, not in the way you’d assume.

this isn’t a grooming situation, talia manipulates jason emotionally but not sexually. it’s messed up, we’re not contesting that

however, we will say that jason todd is legally an adult when talia has sex with him and it’s clear that it’s consensual on both their parts

jason’s not in a good head space when it happens but he is an adult physically, mentally and emotionally. 

it’s not statutory rape or incestuous, but it is very very messed up.

the closest comparison I can make is, imagine during stephanie brown’s batgirl run when she was an 18 year old college student and wasn’t dating tim drake at the time, if bruce wayne found himself attracted to her and had sex with stephanie brown in spite of her being his son’s ex girlfriend who tim obviously was still in love with and would never be over, bruce being significantly older than stephanie, not acting as a father figure towards her, but a mentor of sorts over the years, and bruce knowing stephanie since she was a 14 year old teenage girl. illegal? no. messed up? very.

I’m aware an 18 year old jason’s not going to have the same maturity level as someone older, he’s still growing, but that’s not the point here.

it’s consensual and legal sure

but it’s also unhealthy and messed up for the reasons listed above

it’s interesting, that jason wanting to find his biological mother was the major catalyst that drove him to the events that led to his death, and after he rose from the dead he found a mother figure in talia

[bat-lings]

what is the ethnicity of ra's and talia?

Short answer: Ra’s is Chinese and Arab, probably Bedouin. On her mother’s side, Talia is Chinese and Arab.

Long answer:

Something that DC doesn’t always seem to remember (or at least emphasize) is that Middle East and Arab are not synonymous. Obviously the Middle East is a geographic situation considered from a european pov & that regroups a lot of ethnicities. Arab is an ethno-linguistic group but it’s pretty damn broad a word. Some Middle Easterners are also Arab, some are not, and vice versa. Ra’s is coded as both, arguably he’s always been, but in a lot of books it feels more like a reflex than a conscious & educated move. I think Birth of the Demon knew what they were doing but the same can’t be said of every one of Ra’s’ appearances. That being said BotD is the ultimate reference where Ra’s’ origins are concerned so there’s that.

In the same vein and contrarily to what I’ve implied above, "Chinese" regroups a bunch of ethnicities. DC probably was going for Han but again, more a reflex than a conscious move imo.

With Ra’s’ centuries-old ass we also have to take into account the fact that his native people is extinct and that countries have changed names. We know his father’s ethnicity but not his mother’s for sure. Ra’s has a geographical location of birth at least, even if it’s not super precise.

Here’s the canon information we have:

• Talia’s mother Melisande was part Chinese and part Arab. We don’t have more specific than that so go with whatever Chinese ethnic group and whatever Arab country or people you want.

[Birth of the Demon]

• Ra’s was born in a nomad tribe in the Arabian desert.

• Ra’s al Ghul, an arabic title, is not his birth name— he took it from "a local dialect" apparently distinct from his own*. We don’t know what was his birth name nor what language his people spoke, nor are we explicitly told know which people it was exactly. Although since we’re in the Arabian desert it’s highly probable they were Bedouins, which would make them Arab.

*EDIT: @wintersrchild kindly corrected: "[That] may be true in comic canon but is pretty weird irl. You see, his name is literally "head of the demon". Ras=Head, al=the, Ghul=demon tho different demons than the Christian ones, and you don't actually need to add the "of" here (it's also why the correct spelling should be Ras and not Ra's since it's 1. a full word 2. redundant and 3. English grammar for Arabic words). Those are also pretty common words that aren't limited to any one dialect, hell they're so common they appear in other semitic languages (i.e. in Hebrew "Rosh" means head). I guess what I'm trying to say is apparently no one at DC knows enough Arabic to realize when someone else used google translate :P"

• Ra’s made it so that his people’s tongue disappeared, meaning it was either a totally fictional people or one that actually existed but is indeed extinct today. Bedouins have always regrouped a number of tribes/peoples, so it’s perhaps possible to link the story with a real-life extinct dialect?

• Their deity, Bisu, seems inspired by Bes/Bisu which was worshipped from Egypt to Syria at that time.

• We also have a vague chronological indication: Ra’s was born during the Crusades. With the extinct dialect and Bisu, we have three clues to help us find out if Ra’s can be linked to an actual tribe of that era or if it’s a fictional one— in which case it’s coherently implanted in the historical context! I’ll make time to research it all one day.

• Ra’s’ father is the Sensei, who is Chinese. (His being most known by a Japanese honorific title is another case of Lady Shiva syndrome but to be fair he also has a base of operation in Japan and a bunch of followers there who could’ve nicknamed him in their own tongue regardless of his heritage.) The Sensei’s ethnicity is probably Han by default as often in media, but like with Melisande give him whatever ethnic group feels right.

[Batman (1940) #671]

[Strange Adventures (1950) #215]

It’s technically a retcon but it doesn’t really contradict Ra’s’ origins in Birth of the Demon so it’s valid. The mysterious old dude at the beginning hinted to be either a random prophet ominously passing through or Ra’s’ actual father could very well be The Sensei.

A rich mixed legacy for Damian to inherit :)

Hope that helps! If someone has more precise information, please let us know!

[secretlystephaniebrown]

I'm new to the Batman comics and was wondering if you could answer a question? I saw another blog talking about Batman adopting kids and how it helped him recover which I follow for the most part. But then they said he relapsed after Jason. What happened to Jason? I don't mind spoilers, it helps me get through the darker parts.

… oh gosh you poor soul. 

Okay so um. 

Well first of all let me start off with saying that if you can find it, you should track down the animated movie Under the Red Hood. It’s a very solid, if streamlined, adaptation of everything I’m about to tell you, and it probably will do a better job than I ever could.

Let’s continue this under the cut, because this got long, and I have pictures, some of which will be… unpleasant, as will be the topics discussed. Warnings for violence, death, and references to sexual assault below! 

Now, since you’re new to comics, I’ll give you a quick rundown. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #368)

Jason Todd was the second Robin, and he had the misfortune of being the first attempt to make the role a legacy. 

He was a very controversial figure. Dick Grayson was widely beloved, and while Jason had his fans, he also was present in a time in comics when many people, both among the readers and the writers for DC, believed that kid sidekicks weren’t dark enough, and fans of Dick often found Jason to be unlikable and too edgy. Jason smoked, he was lower-class and drew attention to a lot of the less palatable parts of Gotham, his mother died of a drug overdose, and he became Robin by stealing the tires off the Batmobile. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #408)

And infamously, towards the end of his run as Robin, he might have possibly killed a rapist who would have gotten off otherwise because of diplomatic immunity. 

Batman (1940-2011) #424

… yeah. That was a thing. 

A lot of Jason’s “bad Robin” stuff which he has become slightly infamous for was in fact retconned in after… everything else, but, as seen in this story above, Jason was a character who was pushing a lot of traditional boundaries in Batman comics, and the violence and temper were there from the beginning, but it was presented as something that Jason was relatively in control of, and that Bruce was helping him with.  

(Batman (1940-2011) #411 - for context, Two Face killed Jason’s father)

But Jason had some bright spots; he joined the Teen Titans briefly, he was Robin present for For the Man Who Has Everything, one of the most famous comic stories during that time, and had a pretty decent relationship with Dick Grayson (which… they retconned later.) 

(Batman (1940-2011) #416)

And then, in 1988, one bright DC executive decided to try a gimmick to drum up publicity for the upcoming storyline Batman: A Death in the Family. (Because those always work out well.) It was decided that in the upcoming story, they would have a phone poll, to see if Robin lived or died. 

The vote was taken, and the people spoke. Jason was to die. 

(I’ll note here that there’s a LOT of controversy about the vote; apparently there was a robo-calling scam, people were charged per-call so younger readers couldn’t vote, people weren’t sure if the question pertained to Dick or Jason, and some people voted just to see if DC would actually do that.) 

So Jason undertook a rather fascinating story where he discovered that the woman who had raised him wasn’t his birth mother, and began to track down his birth mother. After a few false leads, including Lady Shiva, he eventually tracked down his birth mother, Sheila Haywood, who was a volunteer doctor in Ethiopia. Jason and her had a relatively cute reunion, before it was revealed that Sheila was involved with the Joker, who was blackmailing her. 

Batman (1940-2011) #427

Jason, against Bruce’s advice, revealed his identity as Robin to Sheila and offered to help. She then lured him into a trap, where the Joker beat Jason to near-death with a crowbar.   

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

While she smoked a cigarette.

Batman (1940-2011) #427 

The Joker double-crossed Sheila, because he’s the Joker, and left her and Jason both to die in the warehouse with a bomb. Despite his injuries, Jason tried to rescue Sheila and get them both to safety, but he wasn’t fast enough. 

(For the record, anyone who blames Jason for his death here can fight me. He was trying to help his mother, and it bothers me a lot that most interpretations cut out this angle.)

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

Sheila, possibly having some regrets, managed to tell Bruce that Jason had tried to save her before she died. Jason had no such opportunity to exchange last-words with Bruce. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

Bruce had arrived at the warehouse just in time to see it blow up, which shook him to his core, and for which he blamed himself.

I can’t emphasize enough how huge this was to comics at the time; the death of Robin was a major shakeup to the status quo, and for years Jason Todd was defined as one of the three perma-dead characters in comics. (The others being Bucky Barnes and Uncle Ben.) 

The Joker then… went off and had a wacky sideplot about getting diplomatic immunity by becoming the ambassador for Iran, and then he tried to blow up the United Nations. It was… weird. 

But back to Jason, his death severely shook up Bruce for years. 

Batman: Gotham Knights (2000-2006) #45

His costume literally haunted Bruce in the Batcave in the form of the memorial case, and Jason’s death affected Bruce’s relationships with the next three members of the Bat Family; Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain, while the Joker became cemented in his place as The Man Who Killed Robin. 

Batman: Gotham Knights (2000-2006) #44

Batman (1940-2011) #629

Brucefrequently hallucinated Jason, and his fears of losing anotherRobin/Batgirl/protege (compounded by the fact that The Killing Joke happenedjust beforehand) lead to extremely over-protectiveness towards Tim, and shaped hisentire relationship with Stephanie Brown prior to her run as Batgirl. Butthat’s a post in and of itself.

Jason came back from the dead in Under the Red Hood. (The movie version of which kind of… simplified Jason’s death by cutting out the bit about his birth mom. But the details vis-à-vis the Joker and the crowbar remained the same.) In the comic, we don’t see how Jason got resurrected, but it was revealed in a later comic that, in a major event called Crisis on Infinite Earths, a character named Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality and resurrected Jason Todd. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Yes. Really.

Anyways, Jason then had to dig his way out of his own coffin in one of the most horrifying sequences ever. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Jason then wandered Gotham in a catatonic state, living on the streets and scavenging for food, until he and his still-retained fighting skills were recognized by someone, who called Talia al Ghul. Talia tried to help Jason recover on his own, before realizing that wasn’t going to work, so she shoved him in the Lazarus Pit (against her dad’s wishes), which solved the catatonia, and, depending on your interpretation, possibly made Jason violent and angry. 

Most more recent adaptations/continuity reboots chose to place Jason’s resurrection solely as a Lazarus Pit endeavor, which I’m iffy on, simply because Jason digging out of his own grave was an image that really stuck with me when I first read the comics. 

After escaping from Ra’s, Jason started to figure out his new place in the world. Jason discovered that the Joker was still alive, and that there was a new Robin. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #4

This enraged Jason, who set about on a multi-year journey to learn the “skills that Batman never taught him”, before making his return in Under the Red Hood. (Which, I should note, occurred almost directly after the infamous War Games saga, where another Robin, Stephanie Brown, was killed. This isn’t actually addressed in the story itself, but on a meta narrative level, it’s interesting to note.)  

Batman (1940-2011) #635

Jason became a Crime Lord known as only The Red Hood, which was the Joker’s original nome-de-guerre. He played a series of mindgames and plots, before finally revealing his identity to Bruce. His endgame eventually lead to him kidnapping the Joker, beating him with a crowbar, giving Bruce a gun, and telling Bruce that he’d either have to shoot the Joker, let Jason kill the Joker, or shoot Jason. Bruce found a way around that, because he’s Bruce, but Jason vanished afterwards, leaving Bruce dealing with the fact that his greatest failure, to save Jason, had literally come back to haunt him. 

Jason went on to be a villain/anti-villain of various flavors, featuring in Battle for the Cowl, and the preboot’s Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison, before getting an image shift in the Nu52, primarily in Red Hood and the Outlaws, which shifted him into anti-hero territory. 

But that’s another story entirely. 

Hopefully this has answered your questions! Panel credits all go to @renaroo, who’s always the best to call up for screenshots.

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Arrow’s Lexa Doig Explains What Makes Talia al Ghul A True Badass

Considering Oliver Queen’s previous encounters with Ra’s al Ghul and Nyssa, it was probably only a matter of time before his other daughter, Talia, entered the “Arrow” picture.

RELATED: Arrow’s Talia al Ghul Won’t Be a Nyssa Knockoff

A lethal assassin in her own right, in DC Comics’ lore, Talia has been an ally, a lover and an enemy to Batman. As there is no Batman in the Arrowvrse, this Talia instead finds herself involved with Green arrow. This season, it’s been revealed that she was the one who rescued Oliver from Ishmael Gregor and then proceeded to push him into fulfilling his destiny. Talia has trained Oliver, but she’s also an al Ghul. Can she be trusted? Does the apple fall far from the psychotic family tree?

Doig recently spoke with CBR about making Talia a badass, mentoring Oliver, her possible connections to Prometheus and the inevitable showdown with Nyssa.

CBR: Obviously, “Arrow’s” writers didn’t simply want to recycle what had been done with Ra’s al Ghul or Nyssa. How is Talia different than her father and half-sister?

Lexa Doig: It’s hard to say. This is my interpretation of it: Talia left the League of Assassins and forged her own way in the world, and her way is more in the real world as opposed to influencing events from the periphery. She may have a more direct hand, yet she’s very Talia al Ghul in that mentality of, “Why do it myself when I can get someone else to do it for me?” She is still someone who is a bit of a chess master. That would be my interpretation. All of my stuff has been with Stephen Amell, and it’s all been the flashback training. There hasn’t really been a reference for me of how she operates outside of that context.

In Talia’s first appearance, she disposed of Oliver’s assailants and rescued him. What did you enjoy about what that said about Talia?

The funny thing that I enjoyed about that introduction, from a completely technical perspective, is that it was one shot. That was the only thing I did the entire episode, but what a cool entrance. What it said was how badass the character is, taking out all those guys without batting an eyelash, and just stepping in with this mysterious, “Where have you been? I’ve been looking for you.”

Genre fans know you from “Jason X,” “Andromeda,” “Stargate SG-1,” and “Continuum.” What’s it been like joining the DC Universe?

It’s been so much fun. My ultimate goal – and I really want this, so I am putting it out in the universe – is I want Talia to have a Funko Pop! character. In my mind, I will have arrived if I can bring home a Funko Pop! character, a little figurine, and show it to my kids and say, “See. Mommy is cool.”

What did you make of Talia’s costume? Did it help you get into character?

What I love about the costume is how badass it makes me look. What made me laugh about the costume is the logistics of being in a superhero costume. They don’t tell you the quirks. For example, the quiver that goes in the back is often like a cone that your cat wears when he comes home from the vet. You’re not aware of it, you go to walk through a doorway, you slam your quiver into the side and you get stuck. Or the hood, when it’s up. My hood has to have a certain thickness. It’s made out of leather, so it stands up and looks nice, but then you have no peripheral vision and you can’t hear anything.

Then, there are these amazing side harnesses they have for me and they squeak a bit when I walk. The thing that I found funny about my very first day on set was walking around and looking so incredibly badass, but sounding like [makes squeaking noises]. As I walk, I’m bumping into things. I can’t hear what anybody says. I can’t see anything. It was just funny. Those are the hilarious things you discover about playing a badass, and how awkward it is. I have such respect for everyone on the show who has to wear these incredible costumes and stand there, looking badass and fighting and doing all the cool stuff. You have to overcome this hurdle of [squeaking sounds] and catching your cape on the back of your quiver.

When she arrives, Oliver was a lost soul. What does Talia see in him?

I think she saw potential. Oliver is somebody who is savage. He’s incredibly adept at what he wants to accomplish, but is a little directionless. He is on the side of good in those circumstances. It’s a bit murky and gray in the question of how he’s going to accomplish his goals, though. I don’t think that moral gray area is a difficult place for Talia to inhabit. She’s quite comfortable living there herself. What she saw in Oliver is the fact that he’s an incredible killer, and he’s doing it for the right reasons. She’s trying to point him in the right direction of what he really wants to accomplish.

Do you consider Talia a hero, wanting to make the city a better place out of the goodness of her heart? Does Oliver serve her agenda?

He sort of serves her agenda. I used to play Dungeons & Dragons when I was younger, and Talia strikes me as someone who is neutral in that it’s a balance, but maybe adding into that a little bit on the chaotic evil side. She has things she wants to accomplish, and she’s going to accomplish them by any means necessary. If it turns out to have positive ramifications and be a good thing, then “Yay” for everybody. If it doesn’t, it sucks to be anybody but her.

She’s described as “an elite warrior.” Where do you feel she ranks among the other League of Assassin members and Oliver?

Right up there. After a certain point, when you’re that good, it’s a matter of substance. Anybody can accomplish the things they need to accomplish. It’s just a matter of how they go about doing it. When you compare all the various superheroes and supervillains – and you have these wonderful theoretical discussions of who would win between Nyssa and Talia – it largely ends up being a draw. Or, when you get two really good hockey teams playing against each other, sometimes it just goes your way, and sometimes it doesn’t. I think they’re all elite.

Audiences have only gotten a taste of what Talia is capable of. Are we going to see more of her fighting prowess?

A little bit. I had a really great stunt double. I didn’t do a ton of it. You do see a little bit of it, but not a ton. The storyline really isn’t about how badass she is. It’s more about Talia helping Oliver find himself and find the Hood. Again, what seperates Talia from Nyssa and Ra’s is her ability to operate in the real world, the not-so-secret world. As accomplished as she is as a fighter, some of Talia’s strengths may lie in her intellect and her ability to read or manipulate a situation and play the long game. She’s someone who knows things and has the patience to play the long game.

So far, the series has only scratched the surface between Talia and Oliver. What can you tease about how that relationship unfolds?

She does what she set out to do. She very rarely doesn’t succeed at what she wants to accomplish. At this point, what she wants to accomplish is to help Oliver make peace with the savage side of himself and find a way to partition that into a place where he feels very comfortable with his alter-ego, whether the alter-ego is Arrow or Oliver Queen. That’s for him to decide, but it’s for whatever part of him that needs to exist in the real, above-ground, legit world versus the one that exists in the shadows. I do believe she actually accomplishes her goals.

Will viewers eventually get to see Talia in present day?

I don’t know. I will plead the fifth. I will say that Oliver seems to think that some of her interactions from the past may leave echoes in the present day. I can’t tell you whether it’s correct or not, but he does have that theory.

Fans have speculated that Talia shares ties with Prometheus. Have you come across those presumptions? What are your thoughts on that possibility?

I have no idea who Prometheus is. I only ever work with Stephen because of the nature of the flashbacks. It’s funny, because even on the call sheets, when you are shooting scenes that have Prometheus in them, he’s not technically listed on the call sheet. The character is listed, but no performer or actor is listed as Prometheus. Even I, who works on the show, have no idea who Prometheus is. So, if Talia has connections to Prometheus, I don’t know about it.

Katrina Law has told me she would love for Nyssa and Talia to square off. How would you like to see their dynamic play out?

I would love that. Here’s my problem. My instinct is to always go for funny and comedy. It doesn’t always play well in the comic book world, because everything is always very high stakes, which is also fun. I think it would be hilarious if the two of them didn’t get along, but in a very modern-day, sibling kind of way. Maybe they butt heads, but it’s over somebody taking too much time in the bathroom. That would be hilarious, although the fight scene would look pretty badass. It would be a killer fight sequence. I’m also a family sap at heart, so I’d also love to see Talia and Nyssa fighting on the same side – and arguing with each other at the same time.

The post Arrow’s Lexa Doig Explains What Makes Talia al Ghul A True Badass appeared first on CBR.com.

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