#anyways. i don’t want this to become a discourse/fighting post

[blood-mocha-latte]

okay so i got a really weird anon the other day and, after chewing on it for a while, have decided to put this on the table. i will not be answering the anon because i feel it would not be beneficial nor helpful to anyone in the slightest, and am instead putting my thoughts here:

easy co. was a real company. these people were and are real people. band of brothers, the pacific, and masters of the air were not solely created to satisfy what a fan would want in a series, it also serves as dramatized documentation of what real people went through.

the fact that all people shown in these shows are real people leads to a strange surrounding of ideals that they can only be worshipped, not criticized on the basis of modern day ideals.

which is true, and always will be: historical perspective in all things is required to better understand the past and the world around you.

but when it gets to the point that you can take well thought out criticism and turn it into an attack against a favorite war blorbo of yours; willing to send anons or get overly distressed over a well thought out argument or even just another fan stating one of their ideas, that’s when it’s time to step back.

it’s important to realize that these men were all men in the 1940s. they had layers, beliefs, and thoughts that may not line up with those of today.

people addressing this is not disrespectful.

people stating that made them uncomfortable is not disrespectful.

bigotry in all forms was, at times, mentioned, used, or talked about by these veterans, and it should not be ignored on the basis of preserving the memory of a real person as a perfect individual when no such thing exists.

what is disrespectful is belittling or mocking what these men went through in the war; trauma is not, and never will be, funny. it is disrespectful to compare, call names, or say things about these men in regards to certain things: in band of brothers, comparing liebgott to a rat is one of the biggest one. that is disrespectful.

it is not disrespectful to be addressing certain things said in interviews or memoirs after the fact, surrounding race, gender, politics, or more.

people are complex, and jumping immediately to defending a man you never met or knew personally by sending hate, anons, or having a wildly overbloated reaction is not defending them. it’s just feeding into a perspective of a characterization of what people want a real person to be.

[twistedappletree]

Thinking about Lan Sizhui teaching Jin Ling how to play guqin.

Thinking about Jin Ling absolutely bored to tears by the fundamentals until he hears how beautifully Lan Sizhui plays and suddenly takes an interest (in the guqin, definitely the guqin, he’s interested in the guqin only, okay??)

Thinking about Jin Ling practicing outside of classes because he wants to impress Lan Sizhui by how much he’s improved and wants to make him proud and wants to see his face light up with a smile—I mean, what? No no no, he just wants to show initiative to learn, that’s all there is to it, nothing more. Nothing at all.

Thinking about Lan Sizhui finding Jin Ling asleep on his guqin after a night of wearing himself out with extra practice and gently waking him up to safely escort him back to his room so he doesn’t get caught by their seniors. Meanwhile, Jin Ling sleepily leans against him on the walk back to his room because it’s normal, he’s just tired, it’s obviously normal because Lan Sizhui slips his hand into his and smiles and Jin Ling’s heart feels like it’s on fire. Oh no.

Thinking about Jin Ling opening up to Lan Sizhui about his nightmares from all the trauma he’s endured and Lan Sizhui staying to play guqin for him until he falls asleep, each note chasing away every bad dream that tries to disturb him.

Thinking about them practicing guqin alone together the next day. And the day after. And the day after that—and they really are practicing but it’s a little hard to focus when Lan Sizhui keeps putting his hands over Jin Ling’s to move them to the correct strings, and Jin Ling’s face is a breath away from Lan Sizhui’s every time he leans over to help him.

It’s just guqin practice, that’s all there is to it, perfectly normal. 🩵💛

[sketchyslushies]

Posting this here bc it’s the only place where ppl ik irl don’t follow me!!

Seabound fic!!! Kinda angst ig? It’s my first time writing a fic so don’t judge too bad ><

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Kinda spoilers for Seabound!!! And mainly Jay and Kai w a bit of Cole (not shipping!)((ok maybe VERY MINOR lava coded)) (((like blink and you miss it)))

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“She was my SISTER.”

Kai snapped, his eyes glaring straight at Jay. A silence fell over the ninja, none of them really knowing what to say. They’d never admit it, but they were useless without Nya. The team had struggled to stay civil in the beginning, and the cracks were starting to reform. It was only when Nya had become a ninja when they started realizing their groups potential. Kai’s stare stayed sharp on Jay, Jay looking back with his nervous yet persistent eyes. Kai just didn’t understand. He didn’t care. He didn’t know Nya like Jay did. He didn’t love her like Jay did. No one did. The others had gone back to normal life, albeit separated. But Jay, he stayed behind. He waited for her to come back. He knew that she would.

Jay would never know this, but Kai cared about Nya more than he cared about himself. If he really thought about it, he had practically raised Nya. She was his little sister, the reason he kept going when he had lost everything else. She was his light in the dark, the reason he even became a ninja in the first place. But he was too proud to say that, too arrogant to admit it.

“You didn’t even cry at her funeral.” Jay said, his electric eyes finally looking away from Kai’s. The other ninja all glanced at each other, stuck between interfering and letting Jay and Kai settle this themselves. It had only been a year since they all last saw each other, yet you’d assume they’d never met before. Tension spread throughout the room, thick enough to cut it with a knife. “It’s like you wanted her dead.”

“Jay, that’s enough.” Cole said, stepping in front of Kai to try to stop any more discourse. Jay was even dumber than everyone thought if he was purposefully egging Kai on. “We all miss Nya, and fighting about it won’t bring her back.” Jay looked away from Cole, scoffing, but backing off. Even he knew he was going too far.

“Whatever,” he said, shoving his hands in his pockets and walking away. “I’m going back to the lighthouse, it’s not like we’re doing anything anyway.” Jay reached for the mechanical door’s button, a hot flame burning his hand. “Ow! What the hell?!” He turned around to see Kai, his aim still good as ever. “What was that for, asshole!?” Jay sneered, not noticing Kai’s obvious anger rising. He walked up to Kai, pushing Cole out of the way. His words came out in a jumbled mess. “I seriously don’t get your problem, Kai. You didn’t give a shit about her when she was alive, and you clearly don’t care now that she’s gone. You’re just upset someone’s finally pointing out the fact that you only care about yourse-“

“Do you ever just shut the fuck up?!” Red screamed, punching Blue in the face. Jay fell to the ground, unable to react quickly enough before Kai threw in a few more punches. “You have no idea,” he shouted, “no FUCKING idea how much I care about Nya! Shut your stupid ass up before you say something you don’t know anything about!” Kai’s stature towered over Jay. Sure, he was only a few inches taller, but he was stronger and Jay knew he wouldn’t be able to do much held down to the ground. The other ninja wanted to step in, but couldn’t help but feel like Jay deserved this a bit. They really did all miss Nya, they just didn’t mourn like Jay did. He just didn’t get that. Kai’s fist would meet Jay’s bloodied face just a few more times before Kai paused. Just as he was about to land another punch, he stopped himself. Something he’d never done before. Jay looked up at Kai, noticing a difference in his expression. His dark red eyes were watering. His face stuck between anger and sadness. Jay felt a droplet of water fall onto his face. Was Kai…crying? That can’t be right. Kai’s never cried before. Was there even enough water in his system to do so? The team kind of just assumed his body heat had been too hot to manage water, but never really questioned it. Jay quickly scurried away from under Kai, leaving him still stuck in a punching position. He wiped his eyes, but the tears wouldn’t stop coming. “I loved Nya more than anything in the world, Jay. I did. She was all I had for YEARS. Do you know how much it destroyed me when she left? How much it bothered me when everyone asked how YOU were doing? How YOU were handling her death? No one asked me how I was feeling with my sister dying,” he sniffled, rubbing his eyes and looking towards the ground. “I had to keep it together. If not the team, but for me. I was the face man, the cool one. A little loss wouldn’t do much to me, they said.” His voice warping in and out of a whisper and a sniffle. “I would do anything to get her back, Jay. You don’t even know how far I’d go for her.” Jay had never seen Kai like this. None of the ninja had. The fire ninja, the most dramatic of them all, looked so small in this moment. So vulnerable. His tear stained face was hardly visible to the team, yet everyone could tell exactly how he looked.

Jay stood up and stumbled towards Kai. His bruised body was staggering, struggling to keep upright. He kneeled by Kai, getting to his level. Cole and Zane carefully kept close, just in case Jay was about to get his revenge. Instead, he positioned Kai’s shoulders up to get him to sit upward. He got a really clear view of Kai’s face, his eyes and nose red, his tears smudging the dark eyeshadow he swore he didn’t have on. Jay wiped his tears away, before punching him back in the cheek. Cole practically ran up to Kai. After all, he did always have a soft spot for his firecracker. But, before he could stop Jay from hitting him again, the smaller boy pulled the bigger one into a hug. Blue’s arms wrapped around Red, a small voice muttering out a simple, “I’m sorry.”

Eyes wide open, Kai was surprised. Before he could say anything, he subconsciously tightened his grasp around the curly haired ninja, digging his face into his dark curls and letting his tears fall.

“I hate you.”

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Hope it was an ok read!! Lmk how you liked it/id there’s anything I can work on!

[lastoneout]

I really don’t want Twitter users here. A lot of them are toxic and Tumblr has finally become more of a comfortable space for a lot of people. I’m worried about all the discourse and witch hunts that could start up here again.

I mean we really can't do much about where people go post-twitter, and tbh so far the majority of people have been really chill(and I've had several friends come over too!) but I think it's gonna be up to the users as a whole to continue the trend of us not tolerating that sort of thing. Like we aren't powerless, blocking people, reporting threatening anons, trying to promote positive engagements and interactions, making sure to fact check things and not just let our anger get the better of us, not participating in witch hunts and harassment campaigns and ignoring, blocking, and deplatforming people who do, all of that can help keep things chill. We can't stop it all, but we can work to make our own communities spaces where that sort of thing isn't welcome.

It's worth a shot anyway. I really like the vibe tumblr has currently and I'm def willing to fight to keep things positive. Besides, there are def still plenty of toxic tumblr users who've been here the whole time, this ain't nothing new.

[frenzyarts]

I am SO TIRED of lesbian discourse. It makes me unhealthy angry. I never even really talk about it online because it exhausts me. I immediately become the guy who needs to touch grass and then I do because I refuse to live my life being upset

Anyway my takes on any and all lesbian discourse is:

1. Respect each other

2. Bigots are doing way more damage to lesbians than we will ever do to each other, and I would like to be united against them instead of fighting amongst ourselves

3. I don’t always agree with everything everyone else in lesbian spaces say but I’m not going to wish violence upon them

4. Please understand that if a lesbian is angry about identity politics it’s typically because we Live In A Society that makes it hard to be a lesbian and not because they are a bigot who wants you eradicated for your identity

If you start discourse on this post I will probably block you. I actually don’t want to hear your personal opinion on who is right and who is wrong.

[bi-sapphics]

I think I used to follow your old blog, and I have some good faith questions: 1. What made you become more incluse IRT to LGBT discourse? 2. Do you consider "bi/mspec dyke" to be separate from "bi/mspec lesbian"? (I personally do think bi women can use butch/femme or reclaim dyke but consider these different and the latter concept is harmful) 3. Why are you against trans-friend radfems/gender criticals? (not radfem, I'm critical of them) 4. Do you consider Febfem problematic by proxy?

you mean p-c? yeah. fun fact: i actually plan to move again once i turn 18 in a few months.

anyways this post took me a while to write lmao, i wanted to make sure i got everything down perfectly, both so that it helps you and so that i can refer back to it in the future.

1. this post should answer your first question, though i think i forgot to include that the bi community has always been tied in solidarity with other queer communities that are often excluded (such as ace/aro + trans), and biphobia more often than not parallels harmful rhetoric to other ‘xphobias’ that lie outside of the LG(B). if exclusionists successfully eliminate the TQIA+, then no matter what they tell you or genuinely believe about themselves, they’re not gonna stop there. bisexuals are inevitably next, whether it’s right at the front of the line or somewhere down along it.

2. that same post mentions and explains why i don’t actively have anything against ‘mspec’/bi lesbians. i consider it a separate identity from ‘bi dyke’ because that’s how labels work, every label is a little different from another and definitions + experiences simply vary from person to person. however, functionally, no i don’t consider them any different. people can be and are bi lesbians for the exact same reason(s) that they can be and are bi dykes, and you can’t easily argue for or against one without inherently doing the same for the other. if you’re really, genuinely interested in my thoughts on this since you’re asking in good faith, i would personally recommend this post + this tag, which both explain how being an ‘mspec’ lesbian actually works. it’s also important to remember that ‘lesbian’ used to mean all wlw/nblw/sapphics and belonged to us too before it didn’t, which we didn’t actually have any say in. if you agree that the separatism movement was harmful to bisexual women, and that bisexual women also have the right to claim butch and femme for ourselves due to them having been our terms while we were considered lesbians, then everything falls apart and becomes inconsistent when you don’t agree with bi women also being lesbians if they so choose to be. it’s that simple, honestly.

3. because radfems and gender-criticals don’t support trans(-identified) people back. all trans people, be them transfem, transmasc, transneu, or anything else along the spectrum, are victims of this type of activism and always have been. i think it’s okay and acceptable to have basic views that align with women’s liberation and combatting worldwide misogynistic oppression without aligning with radfems directly, since they have an inherent connotation as their own separate group of activists that harm others just by being associated with the idea. whether or not you believe in trans rights and, by extension, whether or not you put a disclaimer that you believe in trans rights, you’re still signing up to hurt trans people by proclaiming yourself a radfem. that’s part of the contract, especially since many of them have recently admitted on twitter that the most important priority of feminism is taking down “gender ideology”, rather than most common feminist factors that address fighting in favor of women across the world. to be quite honest, i don’t have the means to strongly expand on exactly how trans activism is incompatible with radfem activism, but i’m sure blogs such as @genderkoolaid​ could hit the nail on the head with it for you!

4. if you haven’t already guessed following the third question, realistically yes i do. theoretically i think it shouldn’t, as to me it’s a nice-looking and nice-sounding label, as well as the fact being that there’s nothing wrong with being a bisexual woman seeking to date only other women ─ that’s what i do myself, which is exactly why i coined camellian! but, again, ‘febfem’ is a label that is inherently by nature tied with radical feminism and gender criticism (and any belief system or passive alliance related to them).  the community was created by and for those people (i’m positive this is one of the very first posts regarding the term - the one in the screenshot, anyway), which makes it harmful to position yourself with. i do like the flags though, and their creativity.

i hope this helps! i’m not even sure how much i trust some random anon in my inbox (lol lmao) but all of the information i shared is stuff i’ve posted about before, so i tried to be as honest and open as possible with it.

RADFEMS + GENCRITS DO NOT INTERACT. DO NOT COMMENT, DO NOT REBLOG, I WILL BLOCK AND NOT RESPOND. THIS IS A BOUNDARY THAT I EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO RESPECT. LEAVE ME ALONE AND I WILL LEAVE YOU ALONE. I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU SO THERE’S NO NEED TO ENGAGE. JUST BLOCK ME FIRST AND MOVE ON. THANKS.

i don’t want to see lots of red-highlighted tumblr blogs in my mentions and i don’t have the energy to argue, so just fuck off for the love of god!

[makeste]

I like Bakuguo but his attitude is starting to really piss me off. He's talking about Daku as if he's just ~crazy~ and as if he isn't partly to blame for Deku's toxic self-worth issues. It's infuriating to watch. If Bakuguo doesn’t admit out loud and in front of his friends that his bullying of Deku played a part in Deku's current destructive state and if he doesn’t verbally apologize and reaffirm Deku's worth then I can no longer like Bakuguo's character or Hori's writing.

tbh I don't really know why this is the discourse of choice for people all of a sudden, but this is already the second ask I've gotten about it, so I might as well address it lol.

I think fandom is conflating fanon!Deku and canon!Deku here again. fanon Deku is of course much more sensitive and woobified and has much shakier self-esteem. fanon Deku is the one that turns evil in so many AUs because of Kacchan's bullying. fanon Deku is the one that actually jumps off the roof in so many fics, as opposed to fishing his notebook back out of the pond a few minutes later grumbling about how Kacchan needs to think before he speaks or else he could land himself in serious shit one day if god forbid anyone actually does take his cruel words to heart.

and just to clarify before I get any further, I am not saying this to excuse Kacchan's actions in any way, because what he did was still completely terrible and unacceptable and WAY over the line, and what's more he knew it, too. the bullying was still shitty and horrible and awful, and definitely impacted Deku and made him miserable. I fully acknowledge that, and that Kacchan has a lot of atoning to do for it. this is not a "Kacchan did nothing wrong" post.

but that being said, I don't think canon Deku's reckless self-sacrificing nature actually has anything to do with the bullying. I think they're two completely separate things. canon Deku actually has pretty decent self-esteem in spite of everything Kacchan did to him. canon Deku doesn't think he is useless. canon Deku had a wholeass fight with Kacchan less than 10 chapters into the series in which he explicitly spelled it out for Kacchan that he had a lot of worth, and was going to prove it to him. canon Deku was persistent in wanting to become a hero and hoping and believing that he could find some way in spite of being quirkless. canon Deku never let go of that dream even when no one else supported it. I don't think he would have even given up on it after being told no by All Might, tbh -- we just never got to see how it would have played out because of everything that happened with the sludge monster shortly afterward. but he's not the type to ever give up on something that easily, and we've seen that. canon Deku never thought he was useless, but rather wanted to prove to everyone else that he wasn't.

the drive that Deku has to save and protect others even at the expense of his own safety is something entirely separate from that. he doesn't break his body for others simply because he has no self-esteem and thinks that his own life isn't important. he does it because he can't stand the thought of someone else getting hurt, and knowing that he could have done something to prevent it. it's as simple as that. like, Spider-Man has the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" thing, right? and he doesn't have low self-esteem; he simply believes that if he has the ability to help someone else, then he has a responsibility to help them. it's a personal creed. and Deku is based on Spider-Man. his philosophy is based on that philosophy, which was one of Horikoshi's core influences and is one of the core creeds in superhero fiction.

Deku is self-destructive not because he doesn't value himself, but because he is literally physically incapable of standing back and doing nothing if he knows that he can do something. he's the type of person who sees a car speeding towards someone and leaps in to push them out of the way. NOT because he wants to get himself fucking pancaked by a speeding car, but simply because he can't sit back and watch the other person get hurt without taking action. his body moves before he can think. and that's where the whole "doesn't take himself into account" thing comes in -- the fact that his thought process simply stops at "get them out of the way of the car", and never extends beyond that to "hey, and maybe I should try to find a way to do this that doesn't involve me getting hit in their place." to him, that's simply less important than the first priority, which is getting the other person out of the way.

and regarding that last part, while that may seem like a self-worth issue if he's prioritizing everyone else above himself, I think what it actually is just selflessness taken to extremes. like for instance, when a parent sacrifices themselves to save their child, them placing the child's life above their own isn't necessarily because they don't see themselves as having value. rather, it's that they love the child so much that they place their well-being even above their own. and that's what Deku is like as well. except that in his case he cares about EVERYONE, and so is willing to sacrifice himself for anyone. and that selflessness is his defining character trait, and simultaneously the most admirable and the most terrifying thing about him. it's both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness, which I think is fascinating to explore.

but anyway, so that's also why we never really see anyone thoroughly chewing him out for this behavior either. because the thing is, it is admirable how selfless he is. it's just that there's also a reason why most people are at least a little bit selfish. and that's because too much selflessness will ultimately and inevitably wind up getting you killed. at some point you either have to learn when to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, or else find yourself a loyal group of friends (or classmates) to watch your back, and make sure that mask gets on you when you need it. and maybe help you land the plane too while they're at it.

anyway so that was a lot of rambling, but basically it all boils down to three things:

when Deku berates himself for being useless (for instance at the end of the War arc), he's doing it out of frustration for not being able to push the others out of the way of the metaphorical car. that's the kind of uselessness he can't stand. the sitting-back-and-doing-nothing uselessness.

Kacchan's bullying was terrible, and it might have indeed played a part in Deku's choice of the word "useless" as a way of berating himself in these instances, but he is not the one who gave Deku this mindset of taking himself out of the equation. that's something that was already inherent to Deku from day one. (but that said, Kacchan has a lot of things to apologize to Deku for anyway, so if he wants to add this to the list I certainly won't stop him. he gets mad about Deku's suicidal attitude because it worries him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't feel responsible for it. people underestimated his feelings of atonement before 284/285, and I think they're still underestimating him now.)

and lastly, one last important note, which is that Deku's current "saving" mindset isn't wrong, just as Kacchan's "winning" mindset was not wrong either. the lesson to be learned here is NOT that being selfless and wanting to save other people is bad. rather, it's the fact that he's trying to do it alone that's got him all fucked up right now. basically when you think about it, selflessness is really just selfishness on someone else's behalf. which means that in order for Deku to be saved, it isn't necessary for him to change his outlook or his selfless attitude, even if it is pretty crazy lol. rather, all he really needs is a good group of friends who are willing to act selfishly on his behalf in return. protecting each other through mutual selflessness lol. teamwork as self-preservation. hence why the U.A. kids are here now.

anyway so yeah, I think that's everything. sorry this got so long and out of control lol. this is just a very specific nuanced thing that's hard for me to express, but which I feel is very important when it comes to Deku's character. Kacchan didn't unleash Depressed Nomad Deku on the world (or at least not in this respect). but that being said, he and the others will hopefully be the ones to nudge him back on the right course again.

[batboys-batboys]

I’ve recently witnessed some discourse in the fandom in which the OP called Nesta an abuser and offered thoughts on the relationship dynamic she has with her sisters vs with Emerie and Gwyn, the Valkyries she now refers to as sisters. Someone commented on said post and asked when Nesta had abused Elain. There’s inherent bias in this post as I really like Elain’s character in the books but for the purposes of this post only CANON will be referenced.

First off, let me preface this by saying I love Nesta as a character, but I don’t put her on any kind of pedestal for a multitude of reasons. Also, please let me know if you’d like for me to retag this in any particular way as this is my first serious post.

Here we go…

Chapter 17

Silver lined Elain’s eyes, but her voice remained steady, sure. “There was nothing that could have been done to save him, Nesta.”

The words were kindling. Elain had accepted his death as inevitable. She hadn’t bothered to fight for him, as if he hadn’t been worth the effort, precisely as Nesta knew she herself wasn’t worth the effort.

This time, Nesta didn’t stop the power from shining in her eyes; she shook so violently she had to fist her hands. “You tell yourself there’s nothing that could have been done because it’s unbearable to think that you could have saved him, if you’d only deigned to show up a few minutes earlier.” The lie was bitter in her mouth.

It wasn’t Elain’s fault their father had died. No, that was entirely Nesta’s own fault. But if Elain was so determined to root out the good in her, then she’d show her sister how ugly she could be. Let a fraction of this agony rip into her.

This was why Elain had chosen Feyre. This.

Feyre had rescued Elain time and again. But Nesta had sat by, armed only with her viper’s tongue. Sat by while they starved. Sat by when Hybern stole them away and shoved them into the Cauldron. Sat by when Elain had been kidnapped. And when their father had been in Hybern’s grip, she had done nothing, nothing to save him, either. Fear had frozen her, blanketing her mind, and she’d let it do so, let it master her, so that by the time her father’s neck had snapped, it had been too late. And entirely her fault.

Why wouldn’t Elain choose Feyre?

Elain stiffened, but refused to balk from whatever she beheld in Nesta’s gaze. “You think I’m to blame for his death?” Challenge filled each word. Challenge—from Elain, of all people. “No one but the King of Hybern is to blame for that.” The quaver in her voice belied her firm words.

Nesta knew she’d hit her mark. She opened her mouth, but couldn’t continue. Enough. She had said enough. That fast, the power in her receded, vanishing into smoke on the wind. Leaving only exhaustion weighing her bones, her breath. “It doesn’t matter what I think. Go back to Feyre and your little garden.”

Even during their squabbles in the cottage, fighting over who got clothes or boots or ribbons, it had never been like this. Those fights had been petty, born of misery and discomfort. This was a different beast entirely, from a place as dark as the gloom at the base of the library.

Not the blatant belittlement with that “little garden” comment. Trust me when I say I know intrusive thoughts and that this was early on in Nesta’s mental journey but still. This is her, CANONICALLY, preying on Elain’s emotions about what happened with their father and Hybern. We know that Nesta went through a lot of self-hate in this book but that whole “Let a fraction of this agony rip into her” was uncalled for. Elain went to see her sister, whom she admires and recognizes as her protector, only to get chewed out. Don’t get me wrong, I’m aware that Nesta didn’t want her there but Nesta was unable to control her emotions and consciously sought to hurt Elain with her words. (Not that she’s not hurting/hating herself too I mean just read the underlined part.)

Chapter 21 (sidenote: this chapter needs to be talked more about in the fandom)

Post Nesta refusing to let Elain find the Trove and the “Shall I tend to my little garden forever?” moment. (iconic btw)

Nesta’s pulse pounded throughout her body. “Do you not remember the war? What we encountered? Do you not remember the Cauldron kidnapping you, bringing you into the heart of Hybern’s camp?”

“I do,” Elain said coldly. “And I remember Feyre rescuing me.”

For a heartbeat, it appeared that Elain might say something to soften the words. But Nesta cut her off, seething at the pity about to be thrown her way. “Look who decided to grow claws after all,” she crooned. “Maybe you’ll become interesting at last, Elain.”

Nesta saw the blow land, like a physical impact, in Elain’s face, her posture. No one spoke, though shadows gathered in the corners of the room, like snakes preparing to strike.

Elain’s eyes brightened with pain. Something imploded in Nesta’s chest at that expression. She opened her mouth, as if it could somehow be undone. But Elain said, “I went into the Cauldron, too you know. And it captured me. And yet somehow all you can think of is what mytrauma did to you.”

Aside from the obvious iconic nature of this whole exchange here we see Nesta yet again hurt and belittle Elain. And yeah, sure, Elain tried to hurt Nesta too here by throwing in that reminder that it was Feyre (and Az) who went into Hybern’s camp and rescued her. But as soon as she did it she went into an apology mode but was cut off as her sister couldn’t stand someone feeling sad for her and needed to remind Elain that she’s a bad person who hurts others. The “interesting at last” comment was a (pardon my French) bitch move. There, I said it.

Nesta knew just which words to use to beat down her younger sister who’d always looked up to her, and she didn’t hesitate to use them. She knew which words would hurt her and she said them. Elain shot back here though and reminded Nesta that her trauma with being captured by the Cauldron is her own and no one can shoulder that for her. And that despite this trauma, she’s willing to risk herself to find the Trove and face the magic that took her choices away.

Anyways, I just wanted to shed some light on some scenes that I think a lot of readers and participants of the acotar tumblr fandom glossed over. These were, coincidentally, 2 of the few times Elain showed up in ACOSF. I mean, given the fandom’s warring views on Elain as a character it’s not shocking people would gloss over her and Nesta’s interactions (even though she who knows more about Nesta than anyone else).

I guess I’ll close this by saying that Nesta is not a perfect character. And, admittedly, these scenes did happen in the first half of the book. However, just because Nesta battled her mental health and overcame a lot of challenges, it doesn’t erase the fact that she hurt Elain with her words. She preyed on her younger sister’s love for her and (to my recollection) did not apologize for the way she treated her. Nesta’s an interesting character and so is Elain. Elain is a huge part of the acotar story/world, whether you like it or not.

[no-reply95]

Jealous Guys

Something I’ve been thinking about for a while now is the different ways jealousy manifested for John and Paul over the course of their friendship.

I’m going to look at John and Paul in turn and have a look at some of the key ways jealousy appeared, before, during and after the Beatles period. This will be a looooong post so if you want to go on deep dive keep reading below.

John

Jealousy was something that John acknowledged as a big part of his personality, as far as I’m aware, he only acknowledged his jealousy publicly in terms of his relationship with Yoko but I believe jealousy was a feature of all of John’s major relationships. John’s first real partnership was with Pete Shotton, his childhood best friend, and Pete has outlined how John’s jealousy and possessiveness was a feature in their friendship with them falling out when Pete first started showing interest in girls and with John acting out when Pete started to spend more time with other friends, instead of him, here Pete recounts John’s reflection on this period of their friendship:

“Years later John confessed to having felt acutely jealous throughout that interlude: “I was scared shitless I’d lost you after our fight in science class, when you starting playing with David Jones. I really thought I’d gone too far with you that time.“

Pete Shotton, John Lennon: In My Life , 1983

Pete’s recollections establish a pattern in John’s life of acting out due to a fear of abandonment and losing those who are closest to him so it’s not surprising that once John had formed a strong bond with Paul that would stir similar fears in him. 

Below I’ve categorised the groups of people that were the focus of John’s jealousy and have picked one person from each group as an example:

Family - Jim McCartney

Paul’s family was and continues to be a big part of his life. From the outset of their friendship, John was made aware of how important Jim was to Paul and vice versa. John and Paul had to skip school to hang out together because Jim wouldn’t have John in their house initially and John confessed his resentment of Jim’s influence over Paul’s life. It appears that after some time John grew tired of having to contend with Jim for the position of the most important person in Paul’s life, and this culminated in John giving Paul a pseudo ultimatum as John discussed in 1971:

“But Paul would always give in to his dad. His dad told him to get a job, he fucking dropped the group and started working on the fucking lorries, saying, "I need a steady career." We couldn't believe it… “So I told him on the phone, "Either come or you're out." So he had to make a decision between me and his dad then, and in the end he chose me”

St. Regis Hotel interview, Sept. 5, 1971

Friends - Mal Evans

Throughout the active years of the band it was typical of them to refer to each other as their best friends and, given the lives they led, I think the simple fact that no one else could understand what it was like to be a Beatle would have meant they all shared a special bond. However, they all had friendships outside of the band and this was something that could cause issues for John when it came to Paul.

According to Tune In, Mal initially became friends with Paul during the band's initial shows at the Cavern Club then, after a suggestion from George, Mal became a part of the Beatles entourage thereafter. Mal had friendships with all the Beatles, as part of their inner circle, but from his comments it appears John took umbrage with the closeness of Mal’s friendship with Paul:

“Paul would suddenly come in with this circle saying, “This is Magical Mystery Tour, will you write that bit?” And I was choked that he’d arranged it all with Mal anyway, for a kickoff, and had all this idea going”

St. Regis Hotel interview, Sept. 5, 1971

Mal also comes up when John discusses his recollections of the writing of Eleanor Rigby:

“So rather than ask me, “John, do these lyrics—” Because by that period, he didn’t want to say that – to me. Okay? So what he would say was, “Hey, you guys, finish off the lyrics,”... “ Now, I sat there with Mal Evans, a road manager who was a telephone installer, and Neil Aspinall, who was a not-completed student accountant who became our road manager. And I was insulted and hurt that he’d thrown it out in the air”...” There might be a version that they contributed, but there isn’t a line in there that they put in.“

Playboy interview, David Sheff 1980

John’s discomfort with the closeness of Paul’s relationship with Mal was something that wasn’t lost on Mal’s wife Lil:

“He was always at their beck and call. He was a nice fella to have around, so much so that it could provoke little jealousies within the band. When I met Yoko years after Mal died, she said John had told her he’d been very jealous at one point of Mal’s relationship with Paul.”

Lil Evans interview with Ray Connolly, 2005

Love interests - Linda McCartney

Throughout their friendship both John and Paul had quite a few love interests, which (to varying degrees) prompted jealousy between them.

Although John displayed jealousy of a few of Paul’s love interests this was no more apparent than with Paul’s first wife Linda McCartney, which is confirmed by both John’s words and actions regarding Linda and her partnership with Paul:

“"Then Klein informed Lennon that McCartney had secretly been increasing his stake in Northern Songs. ‘John flew into a rage,’ recalled Apple executive Peter Brown. ‘At one point I thought he was really going to hit Paul, but he managed to calm himself down.’ One unconfirmed report of this meeting had Lennon leaping towards Linda McCartney, his fists raised in her face"

Peter Doggett, You Never Give Me Your Money

"Int: When did you first meet her [Linda]? John: The first time I saw her was after that press conference to announce Apple in America. We were just going back to the airport and she was in the car with us. I didn't think she was particularly attractive, I wondered what he was bothering having her in the car for. A bit too tweedy, you know. But she sat in the car and took photographs and that was it. And the next minute she's married him."

St. Regis Hotel interview, Sept. 5, 1971

“I was reading your letter and wondering what middle aged cranky Beatle fan wrote it... "What the hell—it’s Linda! . . . Linda— if you don’t care what I say—shut up!—let Paul write—or whatever.”

"Of course, the money angle is important—to all of us—especially after all the petty shit that came from your insane family/in laws—and GOD HELP YOU OUT, PAUL—see you in two years—I reckon you’ll be out then"

Draft letter from John Lennon to Linda McCartney, circa 1971

"The presumption is a) the Beatles would get together again or are even thinking about it and b) if they got together, John and Yoko split, Paul and Linda split"

John (with Yoko) talks to John Fielding on Weekend World, 1973

"John often speculated on why Paul and Linda remained married while, at the same time, resenting their evident happiness, to the extent that he had Green do a tarot reading to ensure him that Paul and Linda were really secretly miserable and were going to divorce within a year"

According to Fred Seaman and John Green, source

Paul

Of course jealousy wasn't a one-way street in the Lennon-McCartney relationship. Unlike with John, for Paul I'm focusing more on the key people I believe his jealousy, regarding John, was directed to:

Stuart Sutcliffe

John met Stu at Art College and struck up a really close friendship with him. At the point that John met Stu, John had already become friends with Paul so Paul felt threatened when Stu entered the picture:

"When he [Stu] came into the band, around Christmas of 1959, we were a little jealous of him; it was something I didn’t deal with very well. We were always slightly jealous of John’s other friendships.

When Stuart came in, it felt as if he was taking the position away from George and me. We had to take a bit of a back seat."

Paul McCartney, Anthology 2000

"Paul was saying something about Stu’s girl – he was jealous because she was a great girl, and Stu hit him, on stage. And Stu wasn’t a violent guy at all."

John Lennon, 1967 Anthology 2000

"I looked up to Stu. I depended on him to tell me the truth. Stu would tell me if something was good and I’d believe him. We were awful to him sometimes. Especially Paul, always picking on him. I used to explain afterwards that we didn’t dislike him, really."

John Lennon, The Beatles Hunter Davies 1968

Yoko Ono

Of all the relationships I've already discussed, the relationship and jealousy displayed from Paul towards Yoko is probably the most widely discussed in Beatles historiography and general discourse. From the official start of Yoko's relationship with John in 1968 it was clear that Paul resented her presence in John's life and her proximity to the band:

"He even sent them [John and Yoko] a hate letter once, unsigned, typed. I brought it in with the morning mail. Paul put most of his fan mail in a big basket and let it sit for weeks, but John and Yoko opened every piece. When they got to the anonymous note, they looked puzzled, looking at each other with genuine pain in their eyes. ‘You and your Jap tart think you’re hot shit’, it said."

Francie Schwartz, Body Count 1972

"Cause she’s [Yoko] very much to do with it from John’s angle, that’s the thing, you know. And I – the thing is that I – there’s— Again, like, there’s always only two answers. One is to fight it, and fight her, and try and get The Beatles back to four people without Yoko, and sort of ask her to sit down at the board meetings. Or else, the other thing is to just realize that she’s there, you know. And he’s not gonna sort of – split with her, just for our sakes."

Paul McCartney, Let It Be Sessions, 1969

"I told John on the phone the other day that at the beginning of last year I was annoyed with him. I was jealous because of Yoko, and afraid about the break-up of a great musical partnership. It’s taken me a year to realise that they were in love. Just like Linda and me."

Paul McCartney, interview with Ray Connolly, 1970

What are the similarities and differences in the way jealousy manifested for John and Paul?

I think it's obvious but bears repeating that both John and Paul displayed jealousy towards other people who they felt would threaten their relationship so that's central to all the instances I have flagged, Jim, Mal, Linda, Stu, Yoko all posed real or imagined threats to John and Paul's partnership.

However, you'll note that I included more sources to display John's jealousy regarding Paul and that I categorised John's jealousy targets whereas I only pulled out two key individuals for Paul, this isn't to say that John was more jealous than Paul was, as jealousy isn't something you can quantify, but to highlight my opinion that Paul's jealousy regarding John was more targeted than John's jealousy regarding Paul. I think what stands out to me is that, I think generally Stu and Yoko are held up as the prime examples of Paul's jealousy of other people getting close to John, as far as we know, Paul never had significant issues with other people who formed close relationships with John like Pete Shotton, Cynthia Lennon, Magic Alex etc., why was that? I think that Paul was more threatened when he felt that John was replacing him so by bringing Stu into the band (even though he wasn't a musician) and Yoko into the studio (one instance where Paul was especially hurt was when John gave Paul's line in The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill to Yoko to sing), Paul perhaps felt that his place as John's primary collaborator was in jeopardy and that he could lose a partnership that had become central to his self-worth as a person - that, I believe, was when his jealousy was most likely to rise to the fore. John, on the other hand, had a much wider range of targets when it came to jealousy regarding Paul, why was John jealous of Linda? Linda wasn't trying to replace John as Paul's collaborator, if anything she wanted the Lennon-McCartney partnership to be stronger. Why was John jealous of Mal? Mal wasn't a musician, Mal was a huge fan of the band and constantly worked to fulfil their requests, so why was John so threatened by his friendship with Paul? For me, John's jealousy regarding Paul was more than just a fear of directly being replaced, I believe John's jealousy was fundamentally triggered by a fear of abandonment. I think the childhood trauma John experienced, of being left by both his parents, meant that whenever any of his close friendships and relationships were threatened, or he felt that someone close to him may leave him, he would act out. John fell out with his childhood best friend Pete when he got a girlfriend, John hit Cynthia when he saw her dancing with Stu, John was rude to several of Paul's love interests and ultimately John never fully accepted Paul's relationship with Linda because, although he could see that she could offer Paul the family life he always wanted, John didn't want Linda to take Paul away and give him a family that meant that Paul would no longer be able to prioritise John in his life as he had in the past.

Ultimately, we'll never know all the ways that jealousy factored into John and Paul's relationship with each other and those around them, as I'm sure it impacted several relationships in more complex ways than I can articulate (i.e. I suspect jealousy played a part in Paul's initial resentment of Brian but they grew closer over time so maybe Paul's jealousy lessened over time or Brian became less of a threat?). I do think it's important to consider that jealousy was present on both sides and was likely a factor in the breakdown of John and Paul's relationship, the breakdown of the Beatles and was a continued factor in disrupting reconciliations between John and Paul into the 70s and 1980.

[lovebecomeshim]

hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?

Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.

*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!

This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.

I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)

The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.

And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.

(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)

The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.

First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.

The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.

(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)

They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.

(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)

Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)

Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.

Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.

Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—

And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.

Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.

There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:

There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.

Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).

Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.

Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.

The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.

And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.

tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.

So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.

[bereft-of-frogs]

so this last gifset has got me thinking about the Loki series and its relation to other Marvel films, and this sort of feeds into the debate around costuming and whether or not he should have gotten a bit dramatic costume change. I know people have been getting heated that Loki stays in the same TVA costume throughout the series, but I don’t think the dramatic costume change actually would have fit in the series and I don’t think it would have satisfied audiences.

Because the climax of Loki isn’t like Wandavision, or Falcon & Winter Soldier or Ragnarok: it is Captain America: The First Avenger.

Stick with me here for a minute.

First off, I don’t think a big costume change into a cool new outfit would have actually fit into the series. The costume changes in the other MCU films come at a moment of transformation, largely about accepting something about themselves. It’s a visual representation of the internal character journey. Sam reckons with the complicated history of the United States and the supersoldier program, and becomes Captain America despite the struggles he’s sure to face. Thor gets his literal glow up (slightly less a costume change) when he learns that he didn’t need his hammer to unlock the power within him. Valkyrie gets her old costume when she stops running from her past and her trauma. Wanda gets her new outfit in the finale when she accepts that she has the power and responsibility to control her magic and not be controlled by it.

The climax that Loki builds towards is also one of self-acceptance, but in a much more subtle way. He doesn’t have to accept the weight of his power or responsibility; as the first episode shows, he’s already aware that the things he says about other people are really weapons he’s wielding against himself. Through the series, he works to accept that those attitudes have been a limiting factor, keeping him trapped in the role that (Kang) has cast him in and that he desires to move on from that role, and change the way he thinks about others, and then by extension himself. The final stage of that takes place during his and Sylvie’s confrontation in Kang’s creepy (cool) castle beyond the end of the timeline.

And a costume change at that moment...yeah would have been really distracting.

Which I think is the point of that quote from the costume designer, that seems to have sparked some of the discourse - about not letting a costume ‘distract’. But it’s true. Honestly, any appropriate thematic moment would be undermined if it were accompanied by a big flashy costume change. The stages of the character journey happen gradually, and every moment I can think of where Loki undergoes a part of that internal transformation (watching the reel of the end of his life, connecting with Sylvie on Lamentis, admitting why he cut Sif’s hair, etc...), would have been made significantly weakly by interrupting the performance to change costumes. It would be a big tonal shift as well. Both Wandavision and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier were much more classical superhero/MCU movies (outside of WV’s internal sitcom). This was much more...weird (in a fun way). It would have been a big tonal shift, imo, to shift from the quieter, stranger mood that Loki was aiming for to have suddenly a more traditional superhero/magical girl transformation moment.

I think the only place a costume change would made any sense would have been when they were about to fight Alioth and at that point...I don’t know, it would have felt a little superfluous. Like it would have been a purely aesthetic change, which, y’all know me, I’m all about aesthetics for aesthetics’ sake lol, but I can also understand why they decided to keep everyone in the same costumes. (No one changes costumes in the series. The only thing is Sylvie loses her cape....wait, and Loki loses his jacket, and....ohhhh.) Like I guess it could have been a bit more like Captain Marvel, when it’s in the quiet of pre-battle but Captain Marvel also had a thematic reason for changing the colors of her suit (to break away from Kree influence now that she’s remembered and accepted her past and her true identity). Like, it’s possible it could have been fit in there, but it certainly wasn’t essential for the theme or the character development.

And I think they may have wanted to keep him in the TVA costume to set up the ending, as we see in this parallels between the ending of Loki and the ending of The First Avenger.

And ok, I might be going out on a limb here, getting on the tinfoil hat, but so much else of this show has been so intentional that I can’t help think this parallel might have been on purpose. The series and the movie end with their characters in a moment where they’ve lost something profound, in a perilous new world. Steve gets a couple costume changes in his first film, but they’re a little more gradual as the Captain America costume becomes more functional and less about the spectacle. (That’s also more about how others perceive Steve and his symbolic vs functional value as Captain America.) And they’re not part of the emotional climax, which is centered around his final sacrifice and then his waking up in that new world, which sets up his character journey through the rest of the series of films, as a man out of time, trying to find his place. (Cap does get the thematic costume change, but in Winter Soldier, when he returns to his symbolic roots after breaking free from SHIELD/HYDRA.) In the final scene, which is the most important for his character arc going forward, he’s in his SHIELD-assigned pajamas. Drab, sort of boring, in a similar muted color scheme to the TVA costumes. Which is also where we find him in Avengers. And...where Loki is left at the end of the series, in a similar color scheme, similar ordinary costume, out of place, in a frightening new world with strangers, and a cosmic threat beyond imagining.

Anyway. I hope this makes sense. I feel a little like I’m wearing a tinfoil hat, and I definitely had to under-develop or quickly summarize some of the supporting points to avoid turning this into a really long post, but...

it’s almost like Loki is being set up to be the ‘man out of time’ in Phase 4.

[tldr: I actually do think that a costume change would have been distracting at any of the appropriate thematic points, and I think they might have been purposefully keeping Loki in the TVA costume to set up a parallel between the ending of the series and the ending of Captain America: The First Avenger, making Loki the new ‘man out of time’ in Phase 4 of the MCU.]

[jmdbjk]

Random just because

Being as it has only been about two and a half years since I took notice of anything Kpop and shortly after that is when I zeroed in on BTS, I did not have the advantage of watching since 2013 all these relationships within BTS unfold in real time. I had to come to my own conclusions and learn about their dynamics in a very zigzag manner within a short time frame without the help of fandom discourse to help process what I was seeing. 

I have basically given up on trying to watch everything in chronological order. I feel like I don’t have enough time to go all the way back and start from the beginning in 2013. So I focus on as far back as maybe 2018 to current. 

So, I’ve been watching as much content as possible when time allows. I bought Memories 2020 and am still not done watching it all. All the stuff they just made available to us recently, I plan to purchase and watch but it will take time. 

It seems like after every time I watch something I haven’t seen before, my ideas will shift a little about their personalities and their dynamics between them.

I have these moments when I want to say what’s on my mind and I type out a long dissertation but then I save it as a draft and start second guessing myself. I want to be able to reel off my thoughts on everything and post them here but I still feel very new and self-conscious and afraid that I will accidentally step on some concept that the entire fandom accepts as canon and is something that I might not agree with because I didn't hear what everyone else had to say about it at the time it happened and when everyone was talking about it. Anyway...

I think I have processed through some things, ideas and stuff. I am not sure I can express everything in an easy to understand manner but I will try. I have already posted a few things but I am realizing I need to get more regular about this for my own sanity (hahahaha!).

I am going to be posting some of my thoughts on some past content. Probably will not be saying anything revelatory to anyone but if anyone is interested, here is where my brain lives... FIGHTING!

===============

Let’s start with Late Late Show’s Carpool Karaoke

(I know James Corden has a little bit of negative history but I’m not here to talk about that. Show business is show business and that’s what our boys do for a living. They moved beyond that episode and so should we.)

Before I even knew what a “bias” was, Jimin had my attention. 

I can’t be sure exactly when the first time was but I remember Late Late Show Carpool Karaoke as being ONE of the first moments I noticed that hot blonde in the red jacket in the middle row. His face and that blonde hair, which is basically all I really noticed at that point, just grabbed me. The Jimin Effect was at work y’all...

Now that I go back and watch it again (it's been two whole years since it happened!!) I am amazed at seeing all of them and how much love I have for each individual now that I know them all better, it really is astounding how captivated I’ve become!! Their personalities are just so vivid now!

I am also amazed how I didn’t notice Kookie’s amazing vocals then, or how bright and happy Hobi was or how fucking funny the back row was during that segment with Jin, Yoongi and Tae. I can’t believe I missed how hot Tae was too.

But one thing that I am realizing JUST now, that cemented the deal with me, was Namjoon and his ability to transcend the language barrier for me. How casual and easy-going and fluent he was. It was hard to focus on anything else except that hot blonde guy in the red jacket...but inevitably I did and here we are and I love all of them and their chaos. 

So I am here to say my BTS journey is such an ongoing process. I am having a blast and that’s all that matters to me. Thanks for listening!

[bao3bei4]

girlbosses, male wives, and other lesbian genders

a post about jing wei qing shang. but also mostly about another unrelated movie. spoiler-free.

for a lot of people, mulan 1998 is their definitive “ohhh i’m a chinese woman dressing as a man for contrived reasons and i get absolutely nooo erotic pleasure from this” movie. 

however, because i am very special and unique, for me it’s the love eterne 1963. it’s the shaw brothers adaptation of butterfly lovers, the classic chinese folktale. here’s how i’d summarize the movie: 

zhu yingtai, an aspiring scholar, convinces her parents to let her dress as a man to attend school. on the way there, she meets liang shanbo, another prospective student, and they become sworn brothers. they study together for three years, growing closer, until zhu yingtai returns home. liang shangbo accompanies her for the eighteen-li journey home while she hints she’s a woman, but he remains oblivious. by the time he learns her gender, her parents have engaged her to another man. he dies of grief, and while she mourns at his grave, it splits open, and she buries herself inside with him. two scraps of her torn outfit turn into butterflies and fly away.

it’s worth noting here that like. this movie is made in the huangmei opera style. so both zhu yingtai and liang shanbo are played by women (betty loh ti and ivy ling po respectively). because of this, basically every level of the film is preoccupied with gender: if we take zhu yingtai’s male performance as credible (as the characters in the movie do) the leads bond through male homoeroticism; the text is ultimately about a heterosexual romance; it is acted out by two women, in a performance that is difficult to mistake as heterosexual or even feminine; and the dialogue of the movie can’t help but remark on this.

basically it asks: what if lesbians could be gay both ways? wouldn’t that be based? 

like opera was traditionally made by single gender casts, so roles tended to be genderless, in that the gender of the actor doesn’t determine the gender of the role they play. roles are instead typed into four categories: dan (fem), sheng (masc), chou (clown), and jing (painted face). it’s a sick gender quadinary. each of these roles has further subtypes that are represented through stylized patterns of singing, makeup, costuming, movement etc.

so in butterfly lovers, betty loh ti plays a dan, and ivy ling po plays a sheng. but because of the textual cross-gender play, you end up with a woman playing a woman playing a man who falls in love with a woman playing a man.

i’m going to make a brief digression here into talking about like.. acting theory. in the european tradition, you see it evolving out of early concerns (from stanislavski, brecht) about the fourth wall, and its permeability or lack thereof. in chinese opera tradition, the fourth wall didn’t ever really exist. and mei lanfang, the legendary fanchuan performer, claimed that his success wasn’t just due to his appearance, but rather, his mastery of some nonliteral feminine subjectivity. 

If I kept my male feelings, even just a trace, it will betray my true self; then how can I compete for the audience’s affection for feminine beauty and guile?

i’m not going to argue that there’s like, an essence to being a woman because i’m not a fucking idiot. but there’s something to be said for the idea that the gendered interplay between the audience’s perception of the actor, the actor’s perception of themself, and the character they play is a massive part of the appeal of fanchuan performance.

this is echoed by david hwang’s m. butterfly, in which gallimard memorably says, “i’m a man who loved a woman created by a man. everything else—simply falls short.” btw sorry for having the type of brain disease where i constantly reference chinese crossdressing related media. you already know why i have it. 

anyway. parallel to that (but far less morally detestably), jin jiang argues “young male impersonators in yue opera embody women’s ideal men—elegant, graceful, capable, caring, gentle, and loyal.” so, trivially, 1) the eroticism embodied by fanchuan performers is distinctly different from their “straight” counterparts, and perhaps less trivially 2) it’s way better. 

back to the love eterne for a bit. one of the many reasons it’s lodged itself into my psyche is because there’s something more interesting at play than just all that. normally in opera, to compensate for any perceived residual femininity in the sheng, the dan camps it up even further. so this is how zhu yingtai first appears, this bratty femme pastiche of womanhood. yet within a couple minutes she’s dressed as a man, which she’ll stay as for the bulk of the movie. they do however make compromises with the makeup--more gently lifted eyebrows than the steep angles of the sheng opera beat, and an improbably masculine smoky eye. 

that’s right. they performed girlbossification on her. 

i don’t want to suggest that she’s straightforwardly feminine. i could write an entire other thing on her relationship to masculinity. instead i want to highlight the erotic interplay not just between the “girl” and the “boss” but also between her and her counterpart: the male wife. 

liang shanbo is ostensibly straightforwardly male, but his relationship with zhu yingtai isn’t gay in the ahaha what if i was into my bro way-- it’s a what if i was into my bro and i was his wife way.

that’s right. they performed force fem on a cis woman-man. like when zhu yingtai tells him he can’t watch over her as she recovers from an illness because “boys and girls can’t sleep together,” liang shanbo asks “are you implying that I’m a girl?”

there’s a lot of shit like this that builds up over the course of the movie. it all culminates in that final 18 mile journey. along the way, zhu yingtai compares them to a pair of mandarin ducks, one male & one female. liang shanbo sputters “i am a man inside out-- you shouldn’t--” before graciously conceding, “you may compare me to a woman.” 

this is like. a simple punchline. but it’s incredible. it’s true! liang shanbo isn’t a man inside out in that he’s a man and only a man, but rather that he’s a man seen inside first, built for desiring, by a woman & for a woman. as a perpetual object, he becomes a more believable woman than zhu yingtai. and at least in his view, it seems more likely that he could be a woman than her. but beyond that, his permissive tone reads as a kind of wanting in itself--recast, if she wants, “for you, i’ll be a woman.” 

obviously this is a classic lesbian mood. who among us has not seen “no gender only lesbian” posts. and speaking of classic lesbians, you might ask. did you just tiresomely reinvent butches and femmes but with a more annoying name? yes. no. okay. well. 

first, like butch/femme dynamics have both historical specificity and a classed character such that it’s not rlly that appropriate to impose them on the love eterne. and i guess more importantly, i wanna talk about stuff that isn’t real.

we fight all day about people who confuse performance with performativity, (i use we lightly here. for instance, i go outside every day so i don’t care about discourse) but what if we actually wanted to talk about the former for once? something specifically, whether we choose or are forced into it, that we pretend to be? 

anyway. what the hell does all that have to do with jing wei qing shang. i’m going to start by first making the argument that there’s no such thing as a naturally occurring girlboss. i think, honestly, she’s a product of capitalism (“boss” should be the tipoff here) but because both of these stories are set in ambiguously historical china, i’m going to say, instead that she’s a product of uhhh primitive accumulation.

semantics so that i can be canon compliant with marxism aside, if girlbosses are made not born, can you choose to be a girlboss? sheryl sandberg says yes. i don’t disagree, i guess, but i will say: stop glamorizing it! humans only become girlbosses when they’re greatly distressed. 

you become a girlboss when you have no other choice not to be one. when your wants are too great to be a woman, when the things you want are not things that women should want-- whether that’s something that really no one should want, like being a ceo, or whether that’s just something like loving a woman (or, as it is quite often, both) -- you have to become something else. 

another important part of being a girlboss is that other people are not. your excesses mean that not only do you lose something in the process, but your bosshood comes at the expense of others. the girlboss necessitates a girlworker, or so to speak. 

now we’re getting to jwqs. i’m assuming that you haven’t read jwqs, because most people haven’t. that was me until like four days ago. in broad strokes, the novel is about a woman, qiyan agula, who was raised as a prince, and her quest for revenge against the kingdom who slaughtered her people. of course, this involves marrying one of the princesses of that kingdom. it’s all very exciting (lesbian). 

what’s striking about jwqs is that both of them seem to fit the girlboss paradigm, in vaguely similar ways. qi yan (agula’s assumed name) seems to follow the lineage of zhu yingtai, who pretends to be a man to achieve her goals. she’s forced to give up much in the process, and also sacrifices a, uh, lot of innocent people. similarly, nangong jingnu, the princess, is inherently a girlboss because royalty sucks. but also, qi yan girlbossifies her over the course of their relationship. 

but i wouldn’t say jwqs is girlboss4girlboss. there’s something a little more complicated happening. qi yan isn’t zhu yingtai in that she’s a dan pretending to be a sheng. it seems more like that she was a sheng all along. it’s something that the women of the novel return to often: qi yan seems to be better than a man.

for instance, nangong sunu, jingnu’s older sister, reflects on this. 

Nangong Sunu had seen many foolishly loving women who sacrificed everything for the sake of their husbands, but there were rarely any men who would do the same for them. 

(...) 

Thinking it through, Nangong Sunu felt that Qi Yan was truly becoming more interesting. She intended to observe discreetly for a while, to verify if such a man truly existed in this world. (ch 221) 

and i forgot to write down the citation for this, but nangong jingnu also seems to argue that not only is qi yan prettier than a man, but she also seems to be prettier than a woman. (it’s the bit where she’s watching qi yan sleep. help me out here.)

moreover, the way qi yan relates to nangong jingnu is suggestive. jingnu brings out the elements of wanting to be a woman in her. it’s jingnu’s body that makes her wonder what she would look like if she was more feminine. it’s jingnu’s happiness that she resents, wishing that her people could have that as well. it’s her desire for jingnu that makes her a woman. 

(another important distinction i suppose--while one person can’t be both a butch and a femme, because the girlboss and the male wife are things we pretend to be until we embody them / them us -- there’s greater slippage between the two.)

anyway, the girlboss/male wife dynamic is reversed wrt who’s actually dressing as a different gender. that suggests an inversion in the implications we see from the love eterne, if we are to take the love eterne as the paradigmatic girlboss text. which i do, for no reason in particular. 

so then, is qi yan pretending to be a man? under the opera framework, we’re forced to say no. she’s not pretending to be a man any more so than liang shanbo (as acted by ivy ling po) was. but that, of course, feels incorrect, just looking at the text. is she, then, pretending to be a sheng? i’d strongly say no. the things that others see in her, they authentically see; and she does authentically feel the same things as liang shanbo wrt femininity.

so it has to be the opera framework that jwqs is subverting then. if qi yan kept some trace of her once-womanhood, if qi yan reveals her true self, and yet she still can compete for the audience’s affection-- jwqs’s inversion of the opera framework seems to argue instead that it’s that true self that allows you to compete. it’s being masc that lets you be a desirable woman; it’s being feminine that lets you be a desirable man.

there’s an increased gender ambivalence to jwqs, which make sense, i guess, seeing as it’s not meant to be a het story the way that the love eterne was. for instance, nangong jingnu crossdresses to go out in public, and qi yan remarks that jingnu’s disguise fooled her on their first meeting. when qi yan and jingnu go out in public, both disguised as men, they’re repeatedly perceived as a gay male couple. there’s freedom in that: they could be gay women only privately, they could be straight officially, but they could be anonymously gay publicly. 

so it’s through the gay male pretense that they can be gay women; it’s through the qi yan pretense that agula can love women; it’s the qi yan caring husband persona that coaxes jingnu in caring for qi yan in return-- jwqs, more precisely, argues that you can’t be a woman if you’re going to love them, and even less so if you’re going to be loved by one. 

this is perhaps well-trodden ground for anyone who has read wittig & certainly many people who haven’t. but it’s the layer of pretense that for me complicates these two narratives. 

i think it’s a relatable feeling: wanting something anticipating getting something, or wanting something for yourself anticipating knowing that you already had it. that is, desire in itself being constitutive of that reality. 

or less abstractly, knowing that you’d want to be a lesbian if you could, knowing that you’d want not to be a woman if you could-- anticipating any realization of either. 

the dramatic excesses & wants of the girlboss, i think, are a decent literary stand in for being a lesbian. 

i wanna note here that this is rlly just based on my experience being a transmisogyny exempt nonbinary diaspora lesbian lol. it’s fun & cathartic to overread this history & place myself in the accidental implications.

i don’t think most of the things i say are literally true. and i don’t want to overstep & say any of this can be generalized. please lmk if something here doesn’t read right! ok kisses bye

[letteredlettered]

Hello! This is a broad question so it's fine you don't feel like answering. Do you ever get tired of fandom and its culture? I feel like sometimes there's nothing but discourse and arguments and just... it can be quite draining. Just wondered I'd ask you since you've been in a number of fandoms for a long time! I'm sure you've seen it all. Thank you for your time!!!

I think the last time I got tired of fandom was over 12 years ago. At that time, two things were true: 1) I was having some personal problems that meant I didn’t have a job, didn’t feel good about it, and didn’t have a lot of friends that could talk about things I wanted to talk about. 2) Fandom felt a lot more centered; it was easy to build communities and become a part of them. As a result, at that time, fandom was my main support network. Therefore, when certain aspects of fandom became unpleasant, I felt I had very few places to turn to. I eventually got a job, a lot more stable relationships, and several types of community. Fandom also dispersed onto many platforms, making it very hard to rely on fandom for social interaction. I still do get annoyed by some things in fandom, but when that happens, it’s very easy to dip into another corner of fandom that isn’t toxic or to walk away completely.

I will say that having participated in fandom for a long time has also given me a different perspective. Conversations about social justice--racism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism--as well as conversations about porn--what gets written, with which characters, what age and sex those characters are, how they’re treated, how this porn is posted and consumed--are conversations that have cycled through fandom since long before I was in it. I’ve learned a lot from these conversations, but after participating in them for years and listening to them for even longer, there’s not much more I can learn from random people on the internet. The same is true for issues with less of a social justice vibe--feedback culture, ship wars, fest etiquette, anonymous behavior, etc--I’ve seen it all before, and while I think these can be worthwhile conversations, I no longer feel a strong urge to participate all the time. Generally I feel like arguing on the internet has a smaller value for someone like me than listening, having compassion, modifying my behavior when necessary, and doing what I can irl and with my friends.

I have more to say about fandom cliques.

The other aspect of fandom that can grow wearisome, besides the cyclical debates, is the cliquish nature of fandom communities, and the way typical group behavior is exacerbated by the very fact of being online. Who is popular, who they like, what they say, who likes whom, who did what to whom, how everyone reacted to it--all of this can feel super important online in a way it doesn’t to me irl. I’d like to pretend I’m very classy and stay above all this, but that would be a lie. I have often wanted, in my fandom life, to be someone who has hordes of fandom friends, who leaves comments on everything they read, someone who recs with abandon, someone who runs fests, someone who replies to everyone and makes new people feel welcome and develops starter kits and makes memes everyone loves and invents all the fanon everyone uses etc etc.

Alas, my own social reticence prevents me from being that fan. I have tremendous problems with routine or anything that needs to be done regularly. This includes but is not limited to communicating with friends or people that interest me or people whose work I like. Basically, all the people who love me are people who are willing to keep reaching out to me even when I don’t always respond. I try to warn people about this and communicate clearly that it’s something I really struggle with, but it is not conducive to making friends.

Additionally, I have found that I struggle to feel a part of communities--partly because maintaining your status in a community means regularly being a part of it, but partly I have trouble identifying with most people. Fannish people share more of my interests than most people in the world, but even among fans, I often feel left out and excluded, an extra thumb on a hand that does beautiful things without me. These social difficulties isolate me, but they do have the benefit of insulating me. The one time I was almost in the middle of a fight about who wanted to be my fandom friend, I had the fortune to be so far out of the loop that I didn’t really know what the fuck was going on.

Anyways, the result of my personality is such that I mostly tend to look at fandom on the outside. I get pretty sad about this from time to time, but the times I have gotten deep into fandom have not gone particularly well for me. Either I’ve felt that feeling of exclusion I’ve mentioned before, or I noticed that others were being excluded--ie, I was for some reason included in The Popular Clique. This makes me intensely uncomfortable, and I’ve extricated myself in situations where I’ve felt that way. Unfortunately, fandom spaces that allow for cliques are also the places where you really get to know people and build community. As such, I really don’t make fandom friends easily. The few I do have are pretty much lifelong friends that I share a lot with besides fandom. My best friend is from fandom. My girlfriend is from fandom. Most of the friends I go to when I need to talk irl are from fandom. My original novel-writing partner is from fandom. These are the people I tend to talk to when I need to talk about fandom, though it can feel very lonely when I have a new fandom and no friends fall into it with me.

This is a long answer to say--fandom is exhausting if you’re really participating to the hilt, but given that I really mostly just write fics and answer asks, most of the time it’s chill. When I get deep into something I might join a discord or do a twitter, but I burn out of that pretty fast--though I sometimes do make friends that I keep forever after.

[maaruin]

The Institutional Problems of the Jedi Order

Preface

I think it is time to finally write this post. These ideas have been going through my head for some time after reading some Jedi discourse. But I should preface this with: even though the Jedi made mistakes, this does not mean Palpatine’s genocide of them was justified. It only means that he saw certain flaws in the Order that he could exploit. I suspect that without these flaws, he probably still would have managed to take over and persecute the Jedi, but much more of the Order would have survived.

For this post, I am mostly using the prequel movies with a bit of lore added from the old Expanded Universe. I’m not using The Clone Wars, because its depiction of Anakin’s fall to the dark side is different from the movies. And I’m not using the new Disney Canon, because I don’t know what has been retconned so far and what hasn’t.

Depending on how we count, I think there were either two or four major flaws. I’ll number them as four, but the first three could be grouped together.

1. The Jedi Order is a religion but isn’t organized like one

The Jedi are a religion. They are a group that believes certain things about the universe and practices a way of life that fits with these beliefs. But they are also entirely organized as “Jedi Knights” who are “guardians of peace and justice in the [old] republic”. This is… odd. The entire religion is basically made up of full-time professionals. Or rather, monastics.

If you want to study the Force and use it, you have to become a monk, basically. And more than that, to be accepted you need to already have a special talent in using the Force. Actually, you can’t even do that, they only take toddlers, so your parents have to decide if you should join this religion and become a monk. (Or maybe the Jedi Order just takes all Force sensitive children no matter what the parents think, it’s not entirely clear.)

A normal religion isn’t organized like that. Normally most members of a religion are normal people with normal jobs with varying levels of devotion. They participate in the practices of the religion in a way that fits into their daily life. Then there are religious professionals like priests who work to make it possible for the normal followers to practice this religion. And then, in some religions, there are monastics who dedicate their life to practicing the religion, generally apart from the normal believers. The Jedi only have the last group.

That alone would make them much easier to target and wipe out. But it is even more like that. The entire Jedi Order is integrated into the institutional framework of the Republic. All of the higher ranked Jedi (we will talk about the lower ranked later) basically work as special police and special diplomats for the Republic. “and” not “or”, all of them must fulfill both roles. And, when the Clone Wars start, they all become officers in the Republic military.

Now, in principle I don’t think religious institutions working closely with the state and fulfilling important roles for it is necessarily a problem. But if this is the only way this religion can be practiced, the practice of this religion will become poor in variety and closed off to most people who would be interested in participating.

2. Slavery in the Galaxy

There is slavery in the Galaxy Far Far Away. It is illegal in the Galactic Republic, but it is widely practiced in the planets of the Outer Rim, which might or might not be members of the Republic. The Jedi know that slavery is bad. What should they do?

Well, as much as a like the image of a hundred Jedi waltzing into the Hutt Cartel and killing/arresting them all, that probably wouldn’t be the best idea and cause much more chaos and harm than it solves, at least in the short run. But there are alternatives besides doing that and mostly ignoring it. For a start, here are two:

Establish underground railroads to smuggle slaves to freedom or assist on already established ones. Jedi mind-reading and precognition abilities will be very helpful in such endeavors.

Assist in organizing and fighting in slave revolts. One Jedi can turn the tide on the battlefield and if they are respected diplomats, the can help the slaves in finding supporters.

But this isn’t what the Jedi do because they are preoccupied with their role in the Republic. Qui-Gon says to Anakin that he didn’t come to Tatooine to free slaves. Which is true, he was sent to assist the government of Naboo against the Trade Federation, not the slaves on Tatooine against the Hutts. And why was he sent to Naboo and not Tatooine? Because Chancellor Valorum decided that resisting the Trade Federation was in the interest of the Republic, but freeing slaves wasn’t.

As mentioned in part 1 the number of members of the Jedi religion is smaller than it should be and integrated into the Republic in a way that leaves little room for it to act independently.

3. The Clone Army

Suddenly, an army for the Republic conveniently appears in time when the Republic is about to go to war after centuries of peace. This army is made up of, for all intents and purposes, slaves. Slaves that have been bred to be especially obedient. The Republic is expecting the Jedi to serve as officers in this army. What should the Jedi do?

Serve as officers, because the clones would suffer more without them?

Refuse to serve because that would mean supporting the introduction of slavery into the Republic?

Throw their political weight around and demand the clone troopers be freed and given Republic citizenship and in addition demand an end of the clone production in return for serving in the war?

Serve on both sides of the clone wars because the Republic obviously doesn’t have the moral high ground anymore and if their service in the Republic army leads to less suffering, their service in the Separatist army will do so as well?

There are probably more options. The Jedi decided to pick the one that reduced the suffering of the clones in the short term, but by doing that squandered the opportunity to take a stance against the creation of the clone army. And we don’t even see meaningful discussion within the order about this choice. This is, I suspect, because the Jedi are so used to their role as enforcers in the Galactic Republic that the alternatives weren’t really on the table.

(Palpatine’s plan was counting on the Jedi to behave this way when he planned Order 66.)

4. Dealing with emotions (the problem with Anakin)

While the Jedi Order may not demand it’s members to be emotionless, it does demand that they keep their emotions under very strict control. Nonetheless, almost all the Jedi we see do seem to be emotionally well adjusted. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, all of them seem to have little trouble with this demand.

Anakin, on the other hand, has a lot of trouble with it. He often has emotional outbursts through Episode II and III, then shortly afterwards walks back and apologizes. Curiously, this isn’t the case in Episode I. There he is actually quite good in dealing with his emotions. In other words, his time in the Jedi Order made his ability to handle his own emotions worse. Much worse, actually.

I think the reason for this is that whenever he feels something, other Jedi tell him that this is not right. It starts with Yoda in Episode I. “Afraid are you? […] Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to suffering.” Criticisms like this no doubt continued all the way through his training until, by the time of Episode II, every time he feels an emotion he is angry at himself for feeling that emotion, which leads to more emotional instability, not less.

But why is this a problem Anakin has and not for the other Jedi we see. Maybe it is because he started his training later than is normal for a Jedi. But I suspect it is something slightly different: The Jedi who go through their training either find a way to handle their emotions in a way the order approves of, or they are sorted out. In the Expanded Universe there is a so called Jedi Service Corps where Jedi who fail their training go to work as farmers, explorers, educators or medical assistants. These jobs are, however, seen as lesser and going there is considered a failure. This is unfortunate, I think the Jedi could do much more good in the galaxy if the best of them were able to work in different fields instead of all being stuck with warrior-diplomat. Nonetheless, the Service Corps actually mitigates one of the flaws the Order has to some extend, if it works like I suspect. If the Jedi don’t have a way of dealing with emotions that works for everyone, the next best thing is to only pick the ones that can handle it and put the rest somewhere where they are useful and can’t do damage. Certainly not ideal, but an understandable adjustment.

But anyways, Anakin wasn’t sorted out. It is never confirmed in the movies, but I would suspect they made an exception for him. Yoda already made an exception for him when they decided to train him at all. And because he was the chosen one, I think they thought that his potential would be wasted if he only got to be in the Service Corps. If we ignore the Service Corps and only go off the movies, my criticism still stands: Yoda recognized that Anakin might not handle Jedi training well and he should have stuck to his guns and refuse Anakin to be trained within the Jedi Order.

Why are the Jedi like this?

Personally, I like to explain these flaws of the Jedi Order historically. Now, the EU doesn’t really fit with the theory I have. Because in games like KotOR and SWtOR the Order seems very similar to the Order in the Prequels. On the other hand, other sources say that this structure of the Jedi Order is a product of the Ruusan Reformation which happened after the end of the last Sith War a thousand years before Episode I.

To defeat the Sith at the end of that war, all Jedi were brought together as one army, no matter what they had done before. They didn’t really defeat the Sith (the Sith were deceived by Darth Bane to destroy themselves), but they thought they did. They thought they almost single-handedly saved the Republic from destruction.

Because of this, they rebuilt the Jedi Order in a way that was explicitly integrated into the institutions of the Republic. They built it in a way that made the fighting Jedi the core of the Order, other forms of being a Jedi were downgraded to the Service Corps. Because many Jedi had fallen to the dark side in that war, they taught a very strict form of emotional control and only trained force-sensitives from birth. And because they were so linked to their role as enforcers for the Republic, the neglected many other things Jedi should do, like helping slaves free themselves.

A better Jedi Order

No matter if this is how it happened, I do think the Jedi Order could be different (better). Here is how I would change it:

A Jedi Laity: Every living being is connected to the Force, so let them participate in practices that serve this connection like Jedi meditation. They may never be able to move things with their mind, but that’s not the point.

Jedi who serve the people should live among them: Jedi priests, Jedi healers, and yes, even Jedi knights should not form their own community but instead be in the same community as the Jedi laity.

Monasteries for the monks: Jedi who fully want to focus on their connection with the Force could still live in monastic communities.

Don’t completely integrate into the state: Working with the Galactic Republic could still be a thing, but the Republic should never depend on the Jedi and only a minority of Jedi should serve the Republic directly.

Help people everywhere: Because they are not completely bound to the Republic, many Jedi can decide how they will serve the people in the galaxy. Some might decide to help the slaves in the Outer Rim.

A Variety of Emotion: Not every Jedi will be as capable of controlling their emotions as the others. If there is a large variety of ways to be a Jedi, I suspect that most of them could still find their place to fit into the Order.

Allow adults to join: With adults it is much easier to determine if they would make a good Jedi and what way of being a Jedi would suit them. If there is a Jedi laity, they can be trained as children to some degree before they decide if they want to join.

Would this Jedi Order have fallen to Palpatine’s manipulation? I don’t know. But I think it would have been harder for him. If most Jedi didn’t serve in the Republic military and weren’t in a small number of Jedi temples, Order 66 would have claimed much less of the Order. (Probably 10%-20% instead of >90%.) Jedi would find it much more easy to hide in the population and the laity could help carry on the Jedi traditions in secret. Anakin might have been more emotionally well adjusted and not fall for Palpatine’s manipulations. (On the other hand, in a more open Jedi Order like this, there might be more people who could be turned, so who knows.)

Well, this is my contribution the Jedi discourse. The Jedi aren’t evil, and they certainly didn’t deserve genocide because of this. But as the Prequels depict them, they have certain tragic flaws in the way they are organized that Palpatine could exploit.

(Maybe I’ll make a shorter Part 2 about how Luke deals with this.)

[purrincess-chat]

Okay, so I know I said I wasn't gonna comment, and I'm not getting into the discourse, idc, everyone shut up for a minute because I have ideas.

Canon would probably never, but I posted my akumabug LadyNoir set up yesterday, and I've got another one after this episode, so just hear me out:

Feel whatever way you wanna feel about he-whom-I've-forgotten finding out, but as I've sat and pondered what the overall fucking message is here for Marinette after all of these microbetrayals from her friends this season coupled with the building tension between Chat and Ladybug, I've realized that things are not looking great for Marinette. If all of these things came to a head. If she found out that the people she trusted lied, after everything she has been juggling, with how fragile her mental state is rn, she would break. And likely not trust anyone.

So, scenario, say Chat finally snaps at her after a battle and reveals that he doesn't feel included or needed anymore, like they're no longer partners, and runs off. Ladybug on her way home catches Nino welcoming Rena Furtive home on her balcony and is like she didn't tell Nino what we agreed! But she tries to give her bff the benefit of the doubt because that's her mans. He-whom-I've-forgotten notices her being a little sullen at a group hang later and approaches her to talk. She admits that someone she cares about told her recently that he feels like she's shutting him out, and now she's discovered that someone she thought she could trust lied to her. HWIF is like wow oof. That's a shame. Marinette looks up at him and is like "you'd never lie to me, right?" And he's like shit. So, he decides to tell her the truth finally, and Marinette is appalled that he lied to her and has been putting her at risk unknowingly all this time. He tries to apologize, but she transforms and storms off, hurt and betrayed.

Ding dong, guess who's ready to party? It's Shadowmoth, bitches. And boy is it his lucky day. All of Ladybug's most trusted allies failing her all at once. It's akumabug time.

When Alya discovers that Ladybug has been akumatized, she's like ah, fuck, and rushes to Marinette's house to get the Miracle Box, but it's already gone. Alya is like FUCK!

HWIF sees akumabug and is like ah shit, and runs to Adrien. Adrien is also sulking in his room, and HWIF is like, broski, my dude, my guy, Ladybug needs you. I fucked up and found out who you both are and didn't say anything, and now she's an akuma. Adrien asks why Viperion doesn't just go save her then. They don't need him, and HWIF is like, you fool. You two are made for each other, and she needs you more than ever. Please, do the thing. Adrien is like how made for each other? "You love Ladybug. She loves Adrien." Adrien is like okay, that's fair. Let's go get this bug.

Anyway, Ladybug's power can turn the Miraculouses in the Miracle Box evil, so when she hands them out, the users fall under her command, so when Chat and Rena show up, they're like oh fuck.

Chat tells Rena to handle the minions, he will try to break through to Ladybug. Rena singles out Carapace first, dodging through his attacks and appealing to Nino. Vesperia and Ryuko show up to back him up, but Carapace encases himself and Rena inside a shelter to talk. Rena is able to break through to him, and he agrees to help. Together they defeat Ryuko by hitting her with Vesperia's venom, and swiping both of their Miraculouses. Cat don't make your stupid beeatrix pun

Anyway, Rena fuses the fox and the bee and Carapace fuses the turtle and the dragon. Next they take on, Roi Singe and Pegase with a tad bit more ease, shoving both of them through Pegase's portal, then hitting Pegase with Roi Singe's banana and trapping them there.

Next they have to fight Pigella and Tigresse Pourpre, and I'm too lazy to think of a clever solution for them right now. But they both get defeated and become integral to the next phase of the plan.

Meanwhile, Chat has been fighting Akumabug, who is absolutely spiralling. She can't trust anyone, and the only way she can ensure her allies don't betray her again is to have total control over them. Chat tries to reason with her, but she points out that even he turned her back on her. Chat admits that he let his hurt feelings get the better of him, but that he felt like she was keeping secrets and shutting him out. He was just scared that "you and me against the world" was turning into "you and everybody else." He doesn't want to lose their partnership or her.

Akumabug subdues him, pinning him to the ground, and he surrenders. "Being Chat Noir by your side has meant the world to me, m'lady. Nothing will ever change that."

Beeatrix god dammit Cat and Dragonturtle arrive with Pigella and Tigresse Pourpre, now on their side, and Pigella and TP (that's actually an unfortunate abbreviation I've just discovered) use their powers to show Ladybug what her heart really wants and convince her to give in. Ladybug looks around at all of her friends and allies there to fight for her, and breaks loose of Shadowmoth's influence. Rena apologizes for not being honest with her after Ladybug trusted her. She gives back the bee as well as the fox and says that maybe Ladybug was wrong to trust her. Ladybug forgives her and says that secrets are hard to keep, all of this is proof of that. From now on, they'll be more honest with each other, including her and Chat Noir. She apologizes to him for keeping him in the dark, and Chat apologizes for quitting on her when she needed him most. Just because their team has grown, doesn't mean they have to trust each other any less.

Shadowmoth is like fucking hell, so he goes to fight them himself and try to at least steal the Miracle Box, but Ladybug and friends have all regrouped and recharged, and it's time for them to open a can of whoop ass on Shadowmoth once and for all.

Anyway, that's the story about how Shadowmoth gets his ass handed to him by a group of teenage furries, and everyone apologizes for their mistakes. But most importantly, Gabe goes to jail, and Nino adopts Adrien.

I will not be taking questions or criticism at this time. Fuck off and write your own angsty scenario with a happy ending.