#cat discourse

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

ISTG everyone here needs to check their attitude. I’m smiting everyone on the spot who keeps dismissing one woman’s pain just because of her species, or the other woman’s pain just because the misogyny she faced doesn’t seem ‘as bad’ as the others. Stop calling everyone stupid and dumb just because they disagree with your opinion. All of these women deserve the crown TBH, and it’s really uncomfortable and disappointing seeing how you all keep dismissing your fav’s opponent’s pain just because they’re opposing your fav or because they’re winning and your fav is losing

I don't think you understand how much this round has sucked for me, personally, this weekend for this exact reason. Do you know how much I hate The Discourse. I thought I would escape The Discourse by excluding Hetalia but nooooo, I guess not. God save me from the semifinals.

[kalesmash13]

Hot take but adult cats are better than kittens:

Adult cats have more personality, as it is fully developed. Kittens only exist in three states: eat sleep and play

Adult cats fur is fully grown and fluffy while kittens can still be scruffy even at 8 weeks

Adult cats can and will exist independently from you whereas kittens require your constant attention when the mom cat doesn't want to be around them

If you like kittens that's fine, but people who only get kittens and dump them when they're adults should be shot 👍

[lockea]

I've been seeing a lot of Discourse around outdoor cats that talks past one of the biggest problems addressing community cats/outdoor working cats so I thought I'd chime in with my two cents.

Many arguments I see just... don't think about the cats at all? Or don't consider the logistics of actually addressing the feral cat problem in a humane way. It's always about how outdoor cats shouldn't be outdoors, which is neither realistic nor helpful.

I used to volunteer at an municipal animal shelter in the USA that had a TNR program (Trap, Neuter, Return) and also adopted out community cats to local farms and businesses. Here's my side of the story.

"Your cat doesn't need to be outside" -- Yes, correct. Your domesticated (non-feral) house cat does not need to go outside at all. They can have a fully actualized life safely indoors. When I see this argument, proponents of indoor only cats are correct in most or all their arguments regarding this.

"Outdoor cats are the largest invasive species in the world, and decimate bird populations." -- This is also correct, and part of the reason why you can help by bringing your house cat indoors. Cats are the largest invasive species. Spay and Neuter your cats, bring them inside, and socialize them so they don't become feral.

"TNR doesn't work." -- False. Whether we like it or not, feral cats exist. We have two methods by which we can address the feral cat population -- decimating them (humanely euthanizing the whole colony) or TNR. For a long time, euthanasia was the preferred way to address the feral cat problem. Afterall, if the cats aren't there, doesn't that save the local wildlife population?

Except that we found, studying these colonies, that when a colony is wiped out, the cats of another colony will spread into their territory and continue to have kittens and the population of feral cats is neither controlled nor diminished.

Hence, TNR. What we found performing TNR on cat colonies was that this controlled the population of the colonies, allowing them to stay in their territory, which kept other colonies from spreading (especially colonies we hadn't performed TNR on yet). We at the shelter felt this was the most humane way to control the feral cat population and safely deflate their existence without dealing with the population blooms that euthanasia caused.

"What about kittens?" -- Kittens from these colonies were brought into the shelter, socialized, and fostered out until they could be adopted. Some of these semi-feral kittens needed special homes to be adopted into, but this was the best quality of life for these cats.

"What about cats that get missed during TNR?" -- We would return to the colony several times over a period of several years to perform TNR on the same colony. We mark cats that have been neutered by clipping their ear (this is done humanely, but is the most reliable way to tell if a cat has been neutered so the poor thing doesn't have to have surgery 3-4 times in their life). Also, during the TNR process the cats would be vaccinated to ensure disease did not spread from the colony (i.e. rabies). Still, even getting 60% of the colony TNR'd would dramatically reduce the number of kittens being added to the colony each year. This controlled the population by allowing the territory to naturally deflate in size over time, buying us time to address the larger feral cat problem.

"What if the colony was in an unsafe location?" -- There were two ways we addressed unsafe colony locations -- remember, we know that when the colony is removed, a new colony will move into its place, so we tried not to move the colony unless we really felt the cats or the public was unsafe -- one was to move the whole colony to a new location. Preferably someplace like a warehouse where we have an agreement with the owners of the warehouse. Some of the cats were even relocated to shelter grounds as our community cats. If the colony was small enough we would bring them into our Feral Cats room and adopt them out as community cats.

"What is a community cat?" -- The way the program worked, was that anyone who needed a working cat could apply to the program. These were often rural farmers or businesses with warehouses that needed rodent protection. We trained the farmers and businesses on how to acclimatize the cats to their new home, and as part of the agreement, they had to care for the cats (veterinary care, vaccinations, food and water). This gave businesses and farms an alternative to expensive and environmentally unfriendly rodent control, and also gave these feral cats good places to live out their natural lives.

"Can't you just adopt out feral cats?" -- No. Cats that have not been socialized around humans as kittens, or who have several generations of feral cat in them could not interact with humans in a way that did not cause them undue stress. This was not a humane way to handle feral cats. However, when a cat was brought into the feral cat room, they would be monitored for up to a week. If the cat displayed signs of being semi-social or fully social (hanging out outside of their den, allowing staff to pet them, showing interest in staff in the room), then we would either move the cat into the adoption room or place them in foster to be socialized before adoption. Feral cats who displayed signs of being able to live full and healthy lives with human companions were NOT adopted out as community cats. We also observed this behavior during TNRs and would do the same for those cats too.

"But aren't cats bad hunters?" -- Compared to other species, cats are not the most effective form of rodent control. This is true. However, you have to understand that feral cats exist. There is no "undo" button we can push to stop them from existing. We have to deal with the problem we have right now, which is to safely and humanely decrease the number of feral cats in our communities. And yes, we do that by using cats as rodent control in the community.

"What can I do?" -- Stop saying community cats shouldn't exist. That's not helpful and doesn't solve the problem we have. Bring your cat indoors. Spay and neuter your cats. Adopt from shelters. Volunteer with a TNR team. Support TNR efforts in your community. Recognize that those of us actively dealing with the community/feral problem are trying to do what is in the best interest of our communities and the animals we love. We aren't sitting over here saying these cats should exist -- a feral cat will not have the same quality of life as one that is indoors with a family -- but we have to address the problem in practical terms. We don't have the moral high ground to just do nothing while pontificating solutions that have no basis in actuality.

And yes, it's okay to celebrate community cats. If your local farm has a couple of working cats, that means that farm is helping participate in the safe deflation of the feral cat population. Don't shame a farm or business for using community cats. We're all doing the best we can to solve the problem that we have.

[stheresya]

i love the way sansa is so proud to be catelyn's daughter. in a world where women are expected to assimilate to their husbands' world once they get married, there's sansa adopting her mother's gods into her creed, taking pride in having her mother's looks, often choosing to wear the colors of her mother's house and, most importantly, drawing strength from her mother's memory. what's so great about this is that it's not an act of spite against her father. she's just proud of being both stark and tully. it's like arya said: the woman is important too.

[rookflower]

whichever one of us is a person first

[bananastarion]

It makes so much more sense for Steelclaw to have fur. She calls you a furless one, and everyone calls her Fluffers. Being furless just suits His Majesty perfectly, plus since he's easier to encounter than most of the other cats he deserves to have a standout appearance.

listen, I can forgive Larian for adding a feature in the latest update where your companions keep dumping all their shit into your inventory every time you send them to camp. Annoying but manageable. But giving His Majesty FUR?!! you nerfed him. you made him weaker. this is a sin, Larian. what have you done to my boy

[idliketobeatree]

btw when you're being mean to aziraphale this is who you're being mean to. hope this helps

[foreignswaggersession]

yes louis and armand had filthy kinky sex between this:

and this:

y'all felt this, don't lie. feel free to argue with the wall. and don't just take it from me:

[nyctohyloph0bia]

Honestly y'all need to chill with the "nonhumaness needs to be involuntary!"

The only reason you're saying that is due to wanting to present 'valid' enough for outsiders. It's not a choice so they won't bully you, like they do furries or other people.

And I hear you cry "but KFF!". KFF aren't nonhuman, they just relate. If someone comes over to me and says "I choose to be nonhuman today, I am nonhuman no matter what other ppl tell me. I genuinely identify as nonhuman." That isn't KFF, that's a nonhuman.

Truly, I'll just go "woah...that's so based". Because truly, what are our differences? We both genuinely identify as nonhuman....and yeah that's about it.

You might say, "they don't experience shifts!" There's nonhumans that don't experience shifts. And there's humans that experience shifts, we call it the "shifter's disease". Basically when a full human researches or is around nonhumans and begins feeling phantoms or feeling nonhuman, despite not being nonhuman. So it isn't exclusive to us.

"They don't have noemata!" There's nonhumans that don't have noemata.

"They don't suffer species dysphoria." Theres nonhumans that don't experience species dysphoria. Also cool transmed rethoric.

"They weren't born with it!" There's nonhumans that become nonhuman later on in life.

"They didn't wish their whole life to be a different species!" And? I can imagine there's some nonhumans that didn't even realize they wanted to be/were a different species.

"It's disrespectful to nonhumans that suffer due to their identity!" Another cool transmed rethoric. It's only disrespectful to you because you're up your own ass and believe that anyone who didn't suffer like you did, that didn't have it as hard as you isn't as valid as yourself. But what you don't realize is by having that belief you are excluding such a large portion of your community.

There's involuntary nonhumans who don't suffer from their identity at all and they're still part of our community.

The line between voluntary and involuntary can get blurry very quickly and hard to describe. But truly, you are no one to say who can use a label that rightfully describes their experiences.

Get real and truly think about why you're so upset at someone having a good faith identity.

[evansbuck-ley]

with every interview that comes out it’s really telling that ryan does not care for buck as a character (or oliver as an actor) bc wdym that he was all for hitting oliver in that scene? why is there a consistent negative narrative of ryan’s feelings towards buck. and bvddies are using this as evidence that their ship is going canon? this man has called him a child, a pick me and thought about inflicting violence on him. this is not ship worthy, it’s absolutely fucked.

[megabuild]

it's actually so weird how people react with such vitriol to the slightest mention of minecraft youtubers like i used to be sympathetic about it because of the whole association with dream and so on but it's gotten to the point where if you've been made aware it's a rich and varied community and you still have that knee jerk reaction of "well they're lame, they're cringe, they're all ugly racist white boys" you are actually just a fucking idiot. i'm sorry. like if you cannot do that most basic level of separation like that there is something fundamentally unformed in your brain you should probably work on

[eye-may]

people cats come in all different shapes and sizes and I just think thats beautiful ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

behold: literally the original mistoffelees wayne sleep

behold: dane wagner (la mirada)

behold: ceril faller (RCCL7)

(on the left out of costume)

[vagueeyes]

ahem

[perseidlion]

So there's this character in Dead Boy Detectives.

He's:

Attractive

Flirts shamelessly with Edwin

Makes physical advances toward Edwin

Makes Charles jealous and "gets in the way of the main ship"

Is of indeterminate age but is possibly decades or centuries old

Can transform into an animal.

And it's this guy:

AND YET I have never seen any discourse calling Monty a creep and a predator.

Unlike The Cat King, he even kissed Edwin suddenly and without explicit consent. He also lied, manipulated and betrayed all of them and nearly got them killed. Yes, he said he didn't know Esther was planning on destroying them. But c'mon, it's Esther.

Somehow though, the fandom vilifies The Cat King more than Monty. I think the reason why is worth a long, hard look in the mirror.

The biggest difference between the two is TCK's sexual nature and his in-your-face queerness. Those are two things that have been historically vilified and othered about gay/queer men.

Even these days, through the whole "no kink at pride" discourse, this argument continues through respectability politics.

Simply put, a short little twink with a crush is a non-threatening gay man, while TCK with his overt sensuality and gender non-conforming clothing represents a threat. Monty's advances are seen as cute, while TCK's are predatory, even though Monty propositioned Edwin with a kiss as surely as TCK overtly propositioned him.

If TCK's sexually-charged flirting bothered you in a way that Monty's advances didn't (despite the fact the audience knew that at least at first, Monty's advances were a big old lie) ask yourself why that is. The reason is probably that you were taught to fear and vilify overt displays of queer sexuality . Even queer people need to unlearn this particular bias.

And just to cover all the bases, I will shout again that The Cat King is a fae/trickster and that Edwin's punishment was proportionate in that context. Edwin used magic and confined a creature he knew to be as intelligent as a human and was punished for it with a very long leash and a (totally doable) task. It was a task designed to make Edwin see the cats as individuals instead of tools to help him close a case. The sort of fiction that DBD has its roots in (and the source material) is full of these sort of eye-for-an-eye type of punishments with magical creatures.

Just to be clear, I don't think we should be vilifying Monty, either. You can't 1:1 fictional scenarios onto real life and apply our standards of morality to them, especially not in a setting with man-eating mushrooms, ghosts, and transforming animals. All the conflict these two characters brought to the plot was necessary. If everyone acted with perfect morality all the time, fiction would be incredibly boring.

And IF you did apply RL standards to fiction, you would have to acknowledge that Edwin's crime of binding and forcing a fully sentient being to give him information violated just as much consent as TCK putting that bracelet on Edwin. And that Monty was just as "predatory" as The Cat King, if not more so. The Cat King, at least, never lied to Edwin, while everything about Monty was a lie from the start.

[pigeonclaw]

the Changing Skies girlies

[privateolives]

This is probably because I grew up watching 24/7 animal planet, but what finally made the allo/aplatonic thing click for me were the nature's of big cats.

Lions are powerful, regal creatures who are uniquely adapted to pack life. They need these connections to live a healthy life; A lonely lion is a miserable creature indeed.

Jaguars are solitary, beautiful creatures who live happily solitary. They prowl their lush world with self-sufficient majesty. A jaguar is not lonely without a pack. In fact, forcing jaguars to share space with others they do not enjoy is just as damaging as forcing a lion to live alone.

A lion may choose to head out on it's own for the most part, but in the end must return to the pack to thrive. A jaguar can choose to trust and enjoy the company of others, but they never feel the need to form a pack.

Is a jaguar selfish for this? A psychopath, a narcissist or any other such horrid assumptions? Is it a less moral creature than a lion, who seeks others like it to thrive?

Is a lion pathetic, or needy, or selfish for wanting community? For requiring contact with others like they require water? For their inherent need to string complicated webs of relationships that may seem silly or dramatic to others?

Of course not. These are ridiculous questions to even ask.

They are simply lions and jaguars.

In fact, is a jaguar that chooses to spend time with you not as magical as a lion's love? For a creature that needs no bond to thrive to still enjoy your presence enough to share it a time? Is a lion who can prowl the night alone not impressive in its strength and resilience? Is it not awe-inspiring in its ability to conquer a life it was never wired for and reign still?

Are they not both beautiful and awe-inspiring in their own ways, without being wrong?

Alloplatonics. Aplatonics. Are we not both special and beautiful in both our bonds and self-confident happiness equal, in each our ways? Is there not unique beauty in lifelong bonded packs and magical encounters that need no perpetuity to carry life forward?

Are we not but lions and jaguars? Neither wrong, neither selfish, but just different and beautiful creatures in each our ways?

That's how I've come to see it, anyway.