#comment discourse

[queerofthedagger]

the thing is that if comments/kudos/engagement are "payment" for authors' "free" work, aka if fandom is transactional, then readers are in fact "paying" for something. and if readers are "paying" for something then fic is a product, and if you are "paying" for a "product" you are in fact - generally speaking - entitled to make some basic demands regarding said "product." what that looks like is gonna be different from reader to reader but we have spent years upon years arguing, rightly so, that people are not entitled to updates, or completed fics, or to offer unsolicited criticism, or fics going the way they want them to, or that authors shouldn't have the right to delete their stuff, etc etc. etc. and that entire argument crumbles the moment you turn this into a transaction and it's just no wonder (if no less goddamn obnoxious) that readers' entitlement is skyrocketing when they are treated like fucking customers. like. turning this into an us vs them seller vs customer thing is, aside from entirely ignorant of the fact that writers most often are readers themselves, the most horrific thing happening to fandom. stop turning this into a fucking free market under the guise of community. i swear to fucking god

[pastellieria]

The latest round of AO3 comment discourse crossing my dash made me suddenly realize that people are just taking it as a given that AO3 is a "fandom community website". AO3 is often directly compared to Livejournal and other older fandom hubs amidst laments about how "no one cares about participating in their community anymore".

But AO3 is not a "community" website. It's not social media. It's a fanfic archive that was designed to center the fics first and foremost. There is no space on the site for general, casual fandom discussion. You can't even DM other users. The site was designed this way on purpose to protect writers, because its creators were familiar with the ways in which writers have been harassed on other sites and wanted to minimize direct access to writers as much as possible, but that decision comes with the tradeoff of limiting the amount of communication and discussion between fans that is possible on the site.

This is, to be clear, not a criticism of AO3. It accomplishes its goal of being an archive very well. I don't particularly want DMs or larger discussion forums on the site, and I enjoy how it centers the writing it hosts. But as it exists now, it is simply not built to be a "community" and does not function as one. Unlike sites like Livejournal where fic posting and general interpersonal fandom interactions all took place in the same space, fics are posted to AO3 while the "community" for any given fandom now largely takes place on Twitter, Tumblr, Discord, or another site, depending on the fandom.

You're free to personally dislike those spaces and voice valid criticisms about how they function as communities, but they are undeniably where the actual "community" parts of most fandoms currently reside. These sites, not AO3, are where most fans talk to one another, form friendships, and express themselves. It's not impossible to do these things on AO3, but it is not the norm because the site simply is not designed that way.

The latest posts I have seen about commenting culture have gotten this dynamic exactly backwards. If readers are discussing a fic amongst themselves on Twitter or Discord, they're characterized as antisocial and accused of "not participating in the fandom community". But Twitter and Discord are the fandom community sites! The "bookclub" servers and Twitter threads are where the community bonds are being forged between fans! These spaces are the modern analogue to the old Livejournal groups and web rings, not the comments section of any one individual fanfic on AO3.

If an author's only interaction with their fandom is to post fics to AO3 and passively wait to be found, and they aren't seeking out their fellow fans in these other spaces and interacting with them... they are the ones who are "not participating" as much as the readers that are so readily being cast in so much of this discussion as "selfish" or deliberately spiteful for not commenting "enough".

I understand why many of my fellow writers feel this way. I too often find socialization on sites like Twitter and Discord draining and difficult. It takes time and effort to build friendships organically, discuss ideas and share snippets to pique people's interest in a fic before it is posted, and provide reciprocal effort when it comes to everyone else's ideas and snippets and stories, and there are many days when I just don't have the energy for it all. At the same time, I'm also very curious about my readers' thoughts on my stories, and if I learned that they were being discussed in a server I couldn't access, I would want to know what was being said. It's a natural impulse to feel curiosity like this when it comes to one's creative work. And of course, I also love getting comments on my own fics and I'm not immune to feeling disappointed when a fic seems to "flop".

However, it's not fair to take out feelings of disappointment and frustration on readers for participating in their fandom in the spaces where their fandom's community actually exists. If you find out that fandom discussions are happening in a place where you are not present, you have a choice in what action you will take. You can either make the effort to join the discussion, or you can knowingly distance yourself from it. Neither of these choices are objectively correct for every single individual's situation, but you, the AO3 denizen, are the one who needs to choose whether or not to engage with your fandom's community, because AO3 is not where the community lives.

If you choose not to join your fellow fans in their actual community hubs because of low social battery, annoying features, or a site culture you dislike, that's perfectly fine and a valid choice... but you shouldn't be surprised when the author who is participating in their fandom outside of AO3 gets more comments on their fics. And you certainly don't have the right to project your own social withdrawal onto your readers and accuse them of maliciously withholding "community" from you.

Comments are wonderful, and positively encouraging people to leave comments on the fics they enjoy is completely fine, but comments are not community. AO3 is not a community website and in fact is designed to put us writers behind a wall for our own protection. We are the ones who need to choose whether or not to venture out from behind the wall and join our communities, instead of getting angry that the community isn't spontaneously appearing in our comments sections.

[anarchycox]

Unhinged data collection

Y'all know me, sometimes I like to do weird data collection.

Currently up to bat: comments on ao3!

We've all seen the million posts on tumblr begging for people to comment on fics, to not forget this is community, to enrich your writers and people responding they don't know what to say, they forget, they don't have the spell slots, etc etc etc.

In all these posts though, there are seldom hard facts about the numbers. I did a post once about comments in general on ao3 where I looked at comments and realized about 8 million fics on there have less than 3 comments or something like that.

But that is big, huge, vague.

So I am looking at me!

I started a few days ago, but I am data tracking in a 24 hour period how many comments do I get and how many kudos do I get?

I am a reasonably popular writer so I actually get more comments than many, but this is tempered by the fact that I am archive locked so don't get guest comments.

What I am tracking: date, did I post a new fic or chapter that day. comments on said new thing if there is one, comments in general, kudos, and then a percentage of comments to kudos.

This is not perfect data collection but it gives a point of reference for examining why writers say they don't get comments, or why kudos might not be enough.

Going to collect the data for about 3ish weeks.

[cinnabea]

"no one leaves comments anymore" "I'm afraid to comment" "It's okay you can COMMENT ANYTHING" "but not that" "if I can't criticize I won't comment" "the author never responds anyway so I don't see the point" "no one leaves comments anymore" comment discourse is an ouroboros!!!

I am taking fanfic writers by the hand I am so gently encouraging you to find your own motivation, your own community, outside of just ao3. Even finding one person to share fics with (or leaning in to writing for just yourself) will make the uncertainty of public reception bearable.

Yes I love kind comments from complete strangers, but I only want them if the reader has something to say, not because I've got a knife to their throat. And if they won't comment because I don't respond, that's fine too, because that's not the kind of comment I probably want either.

Writers have to post without the expectation of comments. Readers have to comment without the expectation of a response. And if they get something more out of it, that's great, but let's stop guilting each other for not engaging more in an internet landscape that is already built on manipulating us to maximize engagement.

[lambcow]

I wanna know that what I wrote meant something even if it takes 15 years for it to reach someone! IT'S FINE! COMMENTS ARE GREAT!!!

DONT BE AFRAID TO COMMENT ON OLD FICS DONT BE AFRAID TO COMMENT ON FICS IN A FANDOM THE AUTHOR MAY NO LONGER BE ACTIVE IN. IF THE STORY IS STILL UP LET THEM KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS IT MIGHT JUST BE THE REMINDER THAT MAKES THEIR DAY.

SINCERELY SOMEONE WHO JUST GOT A REPLY THAT MADE ME WANNA MAKE THIS POST

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

don’t know who needs to hear this but AO3 comments section is not Letterboxd. giving unsolicited criticism to a fanfic writer does not make you a “fanfic critic” because there’s no. such. thing.

giving unsolicited criticism to a fanfic writer just makes you a spoiled, rude, entitled asshole at best, makes the author stop posting their works altogether at worst.

a reminder that it’s always okay to just stop reading and quietly click away from a fic if at any point you feel like you don’t like it for whatever reasons. unless specifically asked, there’s no need to tell the author, whose work you read for free, how you dislike something they wrote for themself for fun.

[thyfleshc0nsumed]

Btw rape play is okay not because "I'm a victim and this is how I cope," it's okay because it's play pretend. We are play pretend. We are just adults playing adult versions of house or doctor or firefighter. It's fucking play pretend.

[grimalkinmessor]

When I tell you that I have read fanfic characterizations so OOC that they'd classify as an original character, trust me I have read THOUSANDS. But you know what I don't do? :) Tell the author of those fanfics that they might as well classify that character as an original character if they're going to write them like one. Because that's fucking rude. People don't owe you your preferred characterizations. The back button is free.

[cardentist]

hey, so people need to be aware that youtube is now (randomly) holding basic features for ransom (such as being able to pin comments under your own videos) in exchange for Your State ID/Drivers License, or a 30 Second Video Of Your Face.

not to pull a "think of the children," but No Actually. I've been making videos as a hobby since 2015 (and I've had my channel since middle school), I was a minor when I started and I'm not sure I would have understood the kind of damage something a seemingly simple as a video of your face can do.

this is a Massive breach of privacy and over-reach on google's part No Matter What, but if they're going to randomly demand a state ID or license then they absolutely should not allow minors to be creators.

google having a stockpile of identifying information on teenagers is bad enough, but the Alternative of recording your face and handing it over to be filed away is Alarming considering it opens the gates for minors who Aren't old enough to have a license.

and yes, there is a third option, but it's intentionally obtuse. a long wait period (2 months), with no guarantee of access (unlike, say, the convenience of using your phone's cameras for either of the other two), with absolutely No elaboration on what the criteria is or how it's being measured.

it's the same psychological effect that mobile games rely on. offer a slow, unreliable solution with no payment to make the Paid instant gratification look more appealing (the "payment" in this case being You. you are the product being offered).

and it's Particularly a system that (I think intentionally) disadvantages people who don't treat their channels like a job. hobbyists or niche creators who don't create regularly enough or aren't popular enough to meet whatever Vague criteria needs to be met to pass.

markiplier would have no problem passing, your little brother might not be able to. and while Mark's name is already out there there's no reason why your little brother's should be too.

something like pinned comments may seem simple, you don't technically Need it. but it's a feature that's been available for years. most people don't look at descriptions anymore. so when there's relevant information that needs to be delivered then the pinned comment is usually the go to.

for my little channel that information is about the niche series I create for. guides on how to get into the series, sources on where to find the content At All (and reliably so). for other creators it can be used for things Much More Important.

Moreover, if we let them get away with cutting away "small" features and selling it back to you for the price of your privacy, then they Will creep further. they Will take more.

Note: I have an update to this post here: [Link]

[cowboylikeyouu]

my favorite gender is men finding out about the concept of shipping non-canon ships

[hearthmistress]

i'm sure this has been articulated before and probably better, but i can't stop thinking about the fact that the main reason buddie fans hate Tommy (outside from the fact he is blocking their ship from becoming "canon") is because Tommy is getting the Eddie storyline they want. Or rather, the fandom idea of Eddie is being played out with Tommy's character arc.

This really clicked with me after I watched a nearly 4hr 9-1-1 recap youtube video created by a buddie fan. I genuinely think (the buddie of it all and their view of Tommy aside) it's a great video and worth a watch! Really articulates what makes 9-1-1 fun and lovable, the issues the show has (especially with copaganda), the bad writing with certain characters and character plot arcs, and genuinely had a lot of points I agree with/have been saying myself since I started watching 9-1-1. Even the buddie of it all, I could get on board with because I like watching people argue why they ship something - I don't have to agree with it or like the ship to be interested.

My main issue with the video (and why I can't stop thinking about it) is how the creator viewed Tommy and how (perhaps purposefully) bad-faith they have interpreted his actions towards Buck. Again, I don't care if someone doesn't like Tommy or has no strong opinions of him, but I prefer people's dislike to be based on reality and/or what the character actually did, and not through the rose-coloured glasses of a shipper lens.

When the creator of the video brought up Tommy as Buck's love interest, they mostly said they were rather cool on him and that we don't know a lot about him yet to really know the character (and given that this was published before S8, that's fair). However, they bring up the cafe scene in S7E05 and Tommy's "mmmm, not like that" line as "evidence" that Tommy's indifferent to Buck and this is where buddies and general audiences separate into different realities, because this moment is a) clearly supposed to be funny/romcomsque and b) demonstrates Tommy's dry wit and, dare i say, sassiness - a trait applauded by buddie fans with Eddie (and they use as proof as his "queerness") but condemned when a canonically gay character does it. The video creator themselves mentions numerous times Eddie's sassiness as a positive trait (and to be fair, they also mention that it's sort of Eddie's default trait because he's a nothingburger character - which I agree with), but when Tommy does it, it suddenly demonstrates that a character doesn't really like/care for their love interests (which given what we know about S8.... hilarious in hindsight, holy projection batman).

Anyways, that really clicked into place for me that the (outsized) outrage buddies have towards Tommy is because he is canonically demonstrating traits they want to see in Eddie/how they view (fandom) Eddie.

Tommy as a character is:

-a deeply closeted gay man when we first meet him, who participates in toxic masculinity as a means to protect himself and/or because he can't (or is unable to) fully articulate himself as a queer person.

-alluded to have been raised in an environment where he had to hide his queerness (as discussed specifically in S7E10 with 118 being a "regressive place" when he was there). Is pressured by both his biological family and his work "family" to maintain a certain idea of manhood, and by extension, stay closeted. Also served in the army, an institute infamous for being homophobic, and undoubtedly influenced his ideas around duty and manhood.

-unable to maintain relationships with women, even serious long-term ones as with Abby, and uses these relationships (either subconsciously or not) to maintain the illusion of his heterosexuality.

-tied with "traditional" masculine interests/hobbies/institutes. He was in the army, he likes monster trucks, fighting, craft beer, flies a helicopter, etc. He seems, on the surface, a guy's guy.

-now canonically out and was/is in a relationship with Buck and has served, vitally, as a closet key to Buck, ensuring that two firefighters on the silly weewoo show are, in fact, together.

-very clearly invested in Buck's well-being, both within and outside of relationship. Has demonstrated numerous times "going out" of his way to put Buck's emotional needs first and to value Buck in way others (Eddie) do not.

-one half of a groundbreaking queer relationship. Cannot be repeated enough, the fact that the show has a main character (beloved by fandom and the general audience alike) come out as queer in a long-running mainstream show is groundbreaking. The fact that Tommy is one half of this ship is so important both to the show and Buck's entire arc. It is important and groundbreaking.

These are almost all things/traits that buddie fans argue make Eddie queer and/or why buddie would be a groundbreaking ship. Which sure, but the reality is the showrunners, the actors, the show itself have maintained Eddie is straight, and (as articulated by the creator themselves in the video) most of what they project onto Eddie comes from the fact he is poorly written rather than because the show was planning on making Eddie gay in the first place.

I read through numerous comments for the recap video and for a following video from the same creator about whether they had been queerbaited (I wish buddies learned the term "ship-tease" because if one half of your ship is canonically queer, no you cannot be queerbaited and dismissing Buck's canonical queerness just because your ship is not happening is, uh, a problem), and numerous times buddies have mentioned how "groundbreaking" buddie would be as if all the things they mention about the ship hasn't already happened with Bucktommy on the show. Their issue is not that the show refuses to do this (and the amount of comments I read that said things like 'they'll never make buddie happen because the network is too conservative'.... for a show with a black lesbian relationship from season 1 and has already made half of your ship queer and made him fuck nasty on screen with his male love interest.... the mental gymnastics is too much), but the fact that the show HAS already done this, just not with their blorbo of choice.

My closing thoughts (for now, I have MANY!) is that in the follow up video about being "queerbaited by 9-1-1", numerous comments asked "if Eddie isn't gay, that would mean he's just emotionally immature, terrible to women, and not a great friend or parent. He would be the worst character on the show".... and like yes, that's the real character you are choosing to stan, not the fanfic one! I fully understand that Eddie is blank canvas for most buddies to pin their hopes and dreams onto (again, because he is poorly written and is essentially a nothingburger character), but no matter how you twist each bucktommy interaction, make bad-faith interpretations, project things that never happened onto Tommy, in the end, Eddie is still a straight boring character. And Tommy is the one who is canonically living out the character-arc you so desperately want to see on the show.

[supertaliart]

It’s loving mom!Shaak-ti hours.

[stply]

antis: yeah i can agree it's wrong to generalize a group of people based on the actions of a few! that's the type of ideology that bigots use to justify their actions and it's just so horrible and wrong!

also antis the moment a single darkshipper is genuinely a bad person: wow this just proves my point about all "proshitters" being "pdf files"! "unalive" all "proshitters"!!! the only good "pdf" is an "unalived" "pdf"!!!! stop "normalizing" "🍇" you degenerates!!!!

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

why praising someone’s fic while at the same time tearing down other writers’ fics may not be the positive comment you think it is

first of all, I feel like I should be bringing this up because I’ve gotten comments where people praise my works (which I appreciate) while in those same comments they later say what they dislike about other writers’ fanfics, in a rather harsh manner, and while I know my commenters probably don’t have any ill intentions towards me, and while they never actually name the writers whose works they don’t like, I still don’t agree with and I certainly don’t condone the way they trash talk other writers’ fanfics either. so I think I should just bring this up, not to attack or target anyone specifically, but to hopefully make general readers see why comments like these are… not actually helpful to anybody.

before we begin, I also like to humbly point out that comments I’m talking about aren’t “oh it’s so hard to find a fic this good” or “your work is better than most of the fics I’ve read” because personally I think comments like these are harmless, not because I think my fic is “that good”, not because I think my work is “better than others”, but because no other writers were insulted and if my readers say they prefer my work — it’s all personal preference — then I’m honored, and the last thing I wanna be is a Comment Police, but I’ve unfortunately seen a lot of comments, especially lately, where other writers were rudely insulted in the name of praising the writer whose work is being commented on. I’m not gonna provide screenshots because I’m not gonna put a target on anybody’s back, but here’s to give an example of what I’m talking about,

“I like your work so much. It’s so hard to find a fic this good when most of the (insert character’s name) fics I’ve read are so bad and so out of character. I hate when some writers write (insert character’s name) as some sort of (x) and (insert another character’s name) as some (x), I think it’s so out of characters and so cringe that it physically makes me want to throw my laptop away. It feels like reading a garbage written by a bunch of five year-old kids or something. I wish I could set those trash on fire. Your work is not like those shitty fics though and it’s amazing to finally see a good fic.”

this is the kind of comments I’m talking about. because for me, personally, I don’t actually feel good receiving a comment like this, even though the commenter praises me and never actually mentions other writers, whose works they dislike, by names.

and again, the last thing I ever wanna be is a Comment Police, because I usually appreciate every comment I got, no matter if it’s just a heart emoji or a simple sentence like “I liked this”, I love and appreciate them all. but here we go;

WHY INSULTING OTHER WRITERS IN THE NAME OF PRAISING A WRITER WHOSE WORK YOU COMMENT ON IS NOT A POSITIVE COMMENT

comment like this can put a harmful pressure on the writer whom you praised and make them think that they now have to be extra careful to make sure their work is “good enough to please you”, otherwise they might get torn to shreds too. and instead of writing for themself for fun, which should be the most important thing about writing fanfics, they now feel like they have to write because they have to be good enough to earn their readers’ approval. and that just sucks out all the joy of doing something that was supposed to be a hobby, something writers do out of love and passion and not because they were pressured into doing, not because they were pressured into “being good enough and staying good enough”.

“if you’re this comfortable insulting other writers under my work, how can I know you’re not insulting me and my work under someone else’s comments section?” is a valid thought the writer you praised may have, even if they were too polite to tell you that.

“I hate when some writers write (insert character’s name) as some sort of (x) and (insert another character’s name) as some (x), I think it’s so out of characters and so cringe that it physically makes me want to throw my phone away.” how do you know the writer you praised hasn’t already written something like this in their drafts? how do you know they don’t plan on writing something that you deem “cringe and out of character”? it may not be your intention, but your comment certainly can be read as a subtle “hey, don’t you dare write something like this because I don’t like it!!!! I better not see it from you!!!” I shouldn’t have to tell you how entitled this is.

“this is so out of character” if a writer wants to write their favorite character like this, they can. why? because they write whatever they want and they write for themself, not for you.

fanfiction is not — and never will be — your average novel you see while visiting a bookstore, buy it with your money and bitch about it when it turns out the book is not to your liking. because fanfiction is free. fanfic writers write for themselves and for fun. fanfic writers write whatever they wanna write, because they themselves are their own primary audiences. not you. they’re only kind enough to share with you their works. for free. if you dislike a fic, keep that to yourself and move on to something you do like. don’t be entitled by insulting something you got for free, something that wasn’t even made for you at all.

you obviously can dislike a fic. of course, it’s your opinion. I mean I won’t say I like every fic I’ve ever read, but the thing about disliking a fic is that you can just exit said fic, forget about it and move on to something else without feeling the need to insult the work or the writer, be it directly or indirectly, because, again, fanfiction is not a movie you watch on Netflix or a book you bought with your money. fanfiction is an art, a hobby and a passion created by an artist for the artist themself.

a reminder that comments are public for everyone to see, not just the writer you praise. so while you didn’t mention any other writers whom you insulted by names, there’s always a chance of innocent writers finding your comment and thinking the part where you insult other writers’ works is about their works. and that can very negatively affect them too.

fanfiction doesn’t have to be “good enough for you, random reader”. fanfiction just has to bring the writers joy. and that’s what make a fic good enough.

if you really enjoy someone’s work, tell them that you enjoy their work, tell them what you like about their work. don’t turn their comments section into your own space where you can vent and trash talk other writers, because you are bringing that negativity to the writer whose work you said you enjoyed. and I can only speak for myself but, as a writer, I don’t enjoy seeing my comments section turn into a negative and unkind space where my fellow writers are being insulted.

[nyaa]

we need to normalize attaching this image to literally every single post on the internet in 2025

[goodluckeddie]

Eddie’s whole thing about Buck “making it about himself” is getting so painfully misinterpreted so here we go. Eddie said that in relation to the job offer and him being reluctant / scared to tell Buck about it because of how Buck reacted last time Eddie moved. When Eddie moved back originally, Buck did get jealous and did get bitchy and did “out him” to everyone. He literally did. He was in pain because of Eddie leaving, and he did not see that it was hurting Eddie too because he was so focused on having to move on without Eddie there - he literally says that when he tells Eddie he’s moving “like it’s nothing” and Eddie has to tell him that it’s not easy for him, and also when he says he’s having “more trouble” with the thought of him leaving than he thought he would’ve. This is canon. This all happened. You can’t argue because it’s literally in the show. Okay. Having established this, of course Eddie would be scared to tell Buck that he’s got the job because then that makes his second move back to Texas even more permanent. Because yes, although Buck came around last time, although Buck helped him, although they made it work, that was NOT Buck’s initial reaction. Eddie doesn’t want to feel like he’s abandoning Buck again and he doesn’t want Buck to make the move difficult again. It’s irrational - of course it’s fucking irrational - but it’s still coming from a genuine place of genuine fear because of something that genuinely happened.

When he accuses Buck of making it about himself he is NOT talking about the grief. When it comes to grief he says “nobody knows how to talk to you about it” because Buck, in his well-meaning attempt to make sure everyone is okay, has shut himself off. He says “you never asked what it was like” because Buck, trying to be there for everyone, was psychologically assessing them to see how at risk they were rather than actually talking about what had happened. Eddie was in no way saying that Buck hadn’t been there for people - he was just saying that Buck had been doing it wrong. Eddie and the others didn’t need a grief assessment. He didn’t need to score a 12. Having a numerical value assigned to his grief to see how he’s coping is going to have zero effect on how he feels. It almost definitely doesn’t even accurately reflect what he’s feeling because everyone grieves differently and it’s a fucking number. He needed to talk about what happened because he went through it completely alone.

So no. Eddie’s behaviour was not abusive. He was not accusing Buck of making Bobby’s death about himself. He was saying that he was scared to leave again because of how Buck reacted last time. He was angry and overreacting - he’s not forgotten that in the end Buck came around and helped him move. He’s scared and he doesn’t want to leave again. He is scared, quite rightly, of what might happen to his loved ones when he’s not there. Okay. That’s it.