#conditional immortality

[idylls-of-the-divine-romance]

Sorry for coming off as antagonistic in the tags of the post on Abraham. By all means, please explain your views on hell. I've read your blog for the past month or so, and I've seen a lot of your reblogs about Christian Universalism, the ideas that hell isn't eternal, everyone is eventually reunited with God, etc.

I know reblogs don't necessarily equal agreement, but I am curious to hear what you have to say

Hii

Thank you for the apology. I needed that. And I am also very sorry if i came off as antagonistic at all; like I said, i hadn't eaten and it was 2 pm T-T, and also pride is something I am struggling with so I get offended too easily sometimes.

As for my recent reblogs, I got a new mutual who is a universalist, or at the very least in favor of purgatorial universalism. I reblogged them to meditate/contemplate on them. I myself, am not universalist tho. I am philosophically in the Methodist/Wesleyan so free will is pretty important to me, which both universalism and Calvinism tend to restrict too much imo.

Now, first thing i really want to get clear is that I do not know what happens when you die and what happens at the parousia. I know that that Christians will not die because they are in Christ, that all - righteous and unrighteous - will be resurrected, that there will be a separation of the two, and that heaven and earth will be one. These things Scripture is clear on and no one can contest. Everything else is speculation tho. I know some will disagree with me, but I really do not think scripture is as clear on this as many believe. I want to be really clear that I (and I believe, most if not all) just do not know because Scripture is just not as clear as we would like it to be. And this is because, despite the claim of some philosophers of religion, Christianity (and the Ancient Israelite religion) does not exist to answer questions of "What happens when I die?" It exists to tell of how heaven is coming on earth. And I have to just accept that because I cannot make scripture into something it's not. So I try to do research, look into historical traditions, and attempt (with varying degrees of success) to stay humble before God and loving before neighbor

First, a Lewis quote: "There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than [hell], if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord's own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason. If a game is played, it must be possible to lose it." I start with this because I believe it is very important that no Christian should desire hell for anyone and that we believe in it because it is a sad necessity of reality, not because it is a desirous one. As Paul says in 1 Timothy, we know that God desires that all humanity be saved thru the mediator of Jesus the Anointed One. I say often that to be a Christian is to desire the salvation of even Hitler. Not merely salvation from some subterranean fiery torture chamber, but salvation from Sin.

So, the story of the bible is how God created heaven and earth and they were overlapping (the Garden of Eden), and it was his will to rule his good world together with his images but then heaven and earth got ripped apart because humans are foolish and proud and rebellious. So now, we are outside of God’s presence and as far as I am concerned, if one is not in God, they are already in hell. Or rather, hell is inside of them. I look around and I see infanticide and oppression and genocide and rape and murder and violence and racism and misogyny etc etc etc. I mean just look at Genesis 3-11, it's insanity. And I just have to ask, "What is that if not hell?" And since all of it is rooted in the human heart (which is deceitful and wicked and utterly diseased), hell is in the human heart. St Jacob says a tongue that lies and gossips and curses is lit on fire by Gehenna (which was a physical place southwest of Jerusalem). Not by nature or essence but enslaved to the power of Sin and Death.

On the note of death, I believe in conditional immortality. The human in Genesis 2 is made from dust and they have the opportunity to achieve immortality but it's lost. So they are from dust to dust, without any immortality of the soul. As are all human beings "bitten by the snake", enslaved to Sin and Death. That is, until Jesus could liberate us from slavery to sin and death by his sinless but cursed slave death. He went into death and opened up the way out into eternal life starting now and lasting forever. As such, we believers, as being mystically united to Christ, are alive in him and thus do not die. Rather, when we die we go to heaven and are alive in him (this is why Anglicans, Catholics, and Orthodoxes see no problem asking saints to pray for them. They are not dead).

So the triumphant body of Christ awaits in the intermediate space while awaiting the full reconciliation. So this waiting and praising and praying takes place in heaven. Waiting and praising and praying takes place on earth, until the return of Jesus the Christ in all of his glory, the resurrection of the cosmos, and the full union of heaven and earth. And so the people of God who have chosen life will reign and rule in the power and love of God once more.

But then there is the problem of those who choose death. All powers and authorities have been made subjected to Christ the Victor and King and now everyone is faced with a choice: be healed by the Great Physician and join him in his New Creation, or choose a sin and death in the Valley of Wailing. Why would anyone choose the Valley of Wailing? I made an entire post about it (more poetic than theological) but basically we do it everyday. I have heard it said that "man would escape hell if he could" but this is simply untrue. Of course, we do not wish to live in hell, and if we could escape by our own way we would. But our efforts simply create more hell. Nothing is more terrifying to humanity than that Jesus is God, because if Jesus is God then there is objective good and bad and I have to stand on his wisdom. And if Hesus is God then we killed him when he revealed himself to us. We would rather be "abandoned by God" as Sartre said, though in truth we have abandoned God and thus chosen hell. I chose the hell when I was proud and easily offended and spiteful towards you yesterday, for example. And so, if at the Second Coming, when I see Justice incarnated as the person of Jesus bearing the authority to declare good from evil, I can choose to bow in submission, or I can choose to be forced to bow in subjugation. And many will not choose to boy. "Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven" they will say. They will prefer their idols and their deceptions to true joy and reality.

And God will let them.

Hell, then, is God's monument to human dignity and choice. If someone refuses to be healed by the Great Physician, God will honor that choice. But what God will not do is allow hell to ruining his good world. "I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside.” - C.S. Lewis. And also "those who fly from the eternal light of God, which contains in itself all good things, are themselves the cause to themselves of their inhabiting eternal darkness, destitute of all good things, having become to themselves the cause of [their consignment to] an abode of that nature.” - St Irenaeus. It is God's mercy to contain (sub)human evil and not let it eternally ravage his good world, nor his good image bearing humans who live in that world.

And so they can choose, and God will honor their choice, between the Great New Garden City (New Jerusalem, in the Revelation) that is heaven and earth married together again or you can "live" in the Valley of Wailing, which is outside the city and thus sort of outside creation, which is weird. What does that mean, to be outside the city? How are you outside creation? How are they alive if there is no natural immortality and life is dependent on God? What is it like in the valley? Well I mean, I don't know. It's fire. And darkness. And ice. Death. Destruction. Non-order. Non-being. This is where I lean more annihilationist. But, conditional immortality is distinct from annihilationism. While annihilationism places emphasis on the active destruction of a person, conditional immortality places emphasis on a person's dependence upon God for life; the extinction of the person is thus a passive consequence of separation from God. But I do not hold firmly to the concept of cessation of existence. I think it makes sense, but the only thing I hold fast to is 1) that I do not know and 2) that God's desire will be done.

And without Christ's sacrifice, his defeat of death and sin, the gift of the Spirit of God to urge us to pursue holiness, we would still be slaves to sin and death, corrupted by it, unable to follow God's wise instruction. And as such evangelism is still vitally important (which is a concern I have seen from some) because without the renewing of the mind, as Paul says, there will be no allegiance to Christ.

That said, I do believe there will be nonbelievers who choose life/God. And there will also be some believers who will choose death/sin. Why? Quite simply honestly. There are Christians that won't talk to people who vote differently from them. At the wedding feast of the Lamb there will be Nazis and Jews, Democrats and Republicans, Zionists and Palestinians (the feeling many people feel reading this is the same feeling many Ancient Israelites would've felt reading the last chapter of Zechariah where Jew and non-Jew go up Mount Zion to celebrate Sukkot). Some Christians, like the first century Jewish brethren of Jesus our Lord, will find the love and power of Christ abhorrent, and they will reject him. That all said, i am a hopeful universalist. It is not my hope that anyone would choose death. I want all people - even Hitler - to choose Life. Again: to be a Christian is to desire the salvation of even Hitler. In fact I would say that the end goal is reaching such a state of union with God that you would be willing to die for the salvation of the wicked, but I understand that’s in the deep end and not everyone would agree with that lol.

So... yeah. I don't know how clear this is. I sort of got away from soteriology and into full on eschatology, but as you can tell the two can't really be separated for me, you know? If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

May you have perfect peace, and may the favor of our Lord Jesus the Anointed One, God of Compassion and Favor be with you. Amen.

[chloesimaginationthings]

Man this scene in FNAF 2 movie is gonna be wild-

[starcrustduster]

xie lian being an absolute sweetheart but still offering to cook for people knowing damn well he's gonna poison them and not caring when they start tweaking and dying is so interesting to me

[yanderebro]

<3

\K

[fordpinesthickthighs]

Something I noticed during my rewatch of The Venture Bros- Rusty appeared to get physically healthier as the series progressed! :]

(pics under the cut of…well, “nearly nakey” Rust for the purpose of showing how he visibly changed)

He went from this…

Dia de Los Dangerous! + Mid-Life Chrysalis (s1)

…to this!

The Unicorn in Captivity (s7)

(and also this!)

TVB: Radiant is the Blood of the Baboon Heart

[sonofcelluloid]

I sent AMC a 2nd message abt how disappointing their inaction is regarding unequal treatment towards actors on the basis of race/religion; how it sours customers to a brand forever to learn they’d rather employees sit in discomfort than address wrongdoing/take steps to rectify it. Plz do the same❤️:

[wolfeyedwitch]

(hey! @pigeonwhumps here, starting off the Bailey and Phoenix crossover!)

Phoenix looks up as Zera walks into the medical bay. They don't even really need to be in here anymore, it's just that– well, Bailey.

"Hey Phoenix. We've heard back from your team. Abbie's free to come and pick you up tomorrow morning, if that's okay? I know it's a bit sudden."

Their heart skips a beat. Well, they've missed enough of work, they suppose, although they could've gone back on their own ages ago if Zera's team had let them. But, oh, fuck, Abbie's going to find out about them getting medical treatment, isn't she?

They could ask the team to lie but no, no. They deserve it. Whatever punishment they get for the medical treatment and being idle for so long when people need them, they deserve it. They should be more self-reliant, they shouldn't let people give them medical treatment, they don't need to rest, they don't need rescuing, they're immortal. Immortal and pathetic.

Zera's starting to frown now. Oh, no, that's not good. What've they done wrong now? They tug their sleeves down over their hands nervously.

"Yes, sir."

With Bloody Outstretched Hands Masterlist

Immortal Cannon Fodder Masterlist

This is set after Phoenix's crucifixion; they're recovering and staying with Zera's team for that period. For WBOH, this is after part 6; the team has just learned who Bailey is.

Also, just pretend that Phoenix called Bailey Poppet, and Zera called Phoenix Firebird. Phoenix doesn't know Bailey's name yet, and they're using their codenames in front of the villain they've taken in.

---

Zera is about 0.3 seconds away from screaming. They swear, if someone calls them "sir" one more time—

"Yes, sir," Phoenix says.

—they will sigh internally and put it in their mental "motivation to punch things" box.

Why is Phoenix being so damn... respectful? No, that isn't the right word. Deferential? That isn't quite it, either. They're acting like Zera is somehow... more important than them. Someone they have to placate, almost. Given that Phoenix has been a hero longer than Zera had, it makes no sense.

"Okay," Zera says aloud, tucking the confusing mess away to ponder later. "Well, you're due for your next dose of pain medication."

And for some reason, that sends Phoenix into a spiral. They claim that they don't need it, that Zera shouldn't waste the medication on them, that they're sorry for being an inconvenience. The whole thing feels like sandpaper on Zera's nerves, scraping them raw.

Eventually, through a judicious use of puppy-dog eyes, Zera convinces Phoenix to accept the medication. Then it's time to administer them to Poppet, or Bailey as they now know the villain's name is, as well.

Bailey wakes from their uneasy sleep when Zera gets close, drawing on their powers enough to make Zera's hair stand on end.

"Woah, it's okay, take it easy," Zera says, trying to de-escalate the situation.

Bailey stays poised to attack, one hand outstretched and powers at the ready, for a moment longer. Then their eyes focus on Zera, recognition finally dawning.

"Foxfire," they say, lowering their hand. The electric tension of their powers leaves the air. "I'm sorry, I thought— it doesn't matter what I thought, I messed up, I'm sorry."

Zera waves off the apology and offers Bailey the medication. Bailey, inexplicably, has...

Almost the exact same reaction that Phoenix did. Right down to claiming that Zera shouldn't 'waste' the medication on them.

"It isn't a waste," Zera says, trying to figure out why these two were having such a reaction. "Please, let me help you."

Bailey swallows and nods. Zera gives them the medication and leaves the medbay. They need to talk to... well. Everyone.

What the actual entire fuck is going on? This behavior is weird and unsettling enough coming from Poppet, or Bailey as they now know the villain's name is. But coming from Phoenix? Their fellow hero, who's been at this job even longer than Zera themself???

Something is very, very wrong here.

And Zera is going to find out what it is.

---

Let me know if you'd prefer not to be tagged for this crossover!

Taglist:

@heathenville @nonbinary-disaster @kim-poce @whump-world 

@dolls-circus @pickleking8 @ghostfacepepper @cupcakes-and-pain @badluck990 

@mylifeisonthebookshelf @pumpkin-spice-whump @deluxewhump @extemporary-whump @whumpwillow 

@multiple-characters1-acct @sunflower1000 @fleur-alise @equestrianwritingsstuff @scp-1296 

@livingforthewhump @thingsthatgo-whump-inthenight @suspicious-whumping-egg @kaiwewi @lelly-belly 

@neuro-whump @newbornwhumperfly @whumpthisway @whumpcreations @wicked-whump 

@heart4brains @myhusbandsasemni @how-to-be-a-hero @kixngiggles @kurochan 

@whumpsday @extrabitterbrain @pattonvirglsanders @neverthelass @we-write-as-one 

@elrysdoesstuff @whumperflies-and-roses @ha-ha-one @whatwhumpcomments @ramadiiiisme 

@towerlesskey @emmanemanemm @pigeonwhumps @whumpycries

[bugwolfsstuff]

You've seen Chiron accidentally calling his current demigods by old students' names

Now how about Chiron accidentally calling Annabeth by his long gone daughters' names?

How about Chiron yelling to Ocyrhoe instead of Annabeth?

(Those gray eyes came from Athene not your wife, Chiron. Your daughter has long since forfeit her human form to help you. The gods were never kind to those in your care)

How about Chiron correcting Melanippê's technique in archery lessons instead of Annabeth

(She's gone Chiron. She has fled from here long ago. Because she feared you. Hooves cannot shoot bows and stars cannot be corrected)

[Context for their myths in the tags]

[idylls-of-the-divine-romance]

Honestly, nothing shows someone's ignorance more (to me) then when they insist that some philosophy they hold MUST be held by everyone in order to be Christian because just like. let me introduce you to sooooo many other Christians.

[express-archives]

hi guys <3 mavuika's adopted daughter, takoroa (named after one of the fire deity mahuika's sons). technically she's from the masters of the night-wind, but was taken in by her mother a long time ago, even before said woman was declared archon. she looks as tired as she does because she is currently a student at the akademiya!! those thesis papers are killing her guys 💔 she always made frequent trips between natlan and sumeru for a wide variety of reasons, but has yet to return to the akademiya because of the dire state of her homeland and has no intention of going back until everything is thoroughly resolved. she is a fiercely respected warrior, spellcaster, and healer among the natlanese.

in terms of personality, she is much like her mother—very patient, compassionate, decisive, and wise. she is very much a natural leader! she holds a deep-rooted and strong love for the people of natlan. when she was young, she was extremely passionate and always wanted to prove herself to her mother, even to her own detriment. this desire led to her getting hurt more often than not. nowadays, that flame has been quelled though not snuffed out completely. she still has her moments of desperately wanting to prove herself. maybe it has something to do with the inherent pressure of being the archon's daughter, or maybe it has to do with having been abandoned by her biological parents. who knows. whatever the reason is, mavuika always reassures her and makes her feel secure and confident in herself.

[clownboybebop]

well the world is so scary but I have more or less finished my outline for a psych horror novel abt a severely anorexic woman who gets turned into a vampire

[franeridan]

okay it's driving me up a wall I've started this post four different times I don't know how to word this but whatever here goes nothing, why the fuck is mydei immortal. I've been thinking about this non stop for two days why is he immortal. Everyone else with weird conditions we know of has an explanation in game for their not being normal humans so what's mydei's why does he come back up when you kill him unless you hit him in that very specific completely arbitrary spot on his back what's his excuse. Where's his explanation. Why is he immortal it's driving me insane

[astarionconsort]

"Immortality means everyone else dying" "you will see your loved ones dying! wah" why the hell people so often think the opportunity of immortality/biological immortality will be a one time thing for one person only and cannot be shared?? Limited mindset and skill issue

[silkhy-john]

TTGFHs as an allegory for colonisers and their actions—almost ALL their actions—as an allegory for colonisation in its many facets?

“More likely than you’d think” doesn’t BEGIN to cover it.

[frogshipping]

Selfshippers/yumeshippers: Do you and/or your f/o(s) have any pets? Are they a traditional pet (cat, dog, lizard, etc.), or something more fantastical/extraterrestrial?

If you don't like or want pets, how about some plants? Do you and/or your f/o(s) have a specific type of plant you keep around?

Talk about it in the tags!!

Pr0shippers + variants DNI!!

[wolfeyedwitch]

(continued from here)

Phoenix watches Maeve and Elijah warily. They don't look angry.

"Coming," says Zera, standing up. "Firebird, Poppet, I'll be back soon."

"Yes, sir," says Phoenix. Elijah and Zera both smile before disappearing.

Maeve crosses over to Poppet.

"So, I hear you're not feeling too good. What's wrong?"

Poppet shakes their head. "Nothing. I'm fine. I– I don't need anything."

Phoenix isn't sure if that's true, but it's up to Poppet, so they don't say anything. Maeve eventually manages to persuade them to take anti-nausea medication, so something must've been wrong.

"What about you, Firebird? Do you need anything?"

"No, sir."

It's different for them than Poppet. They're immortal, so they're not allowed medical treatment. Poppet isn't. And they definitely need it more anyway.

Everyone needs it more.

And besides, they've only just had (completely unnecessary) pain medication. They don't need anything else.

"Are you sure? You're not just refusing it because you think you don't deserve it again? Because it's well within your rights to refuse medical treatment but we do need to do our jobs."

Phoenix nods. They don't deserve it, it's true, but also they're pretty certain they couldn't have anything so soon after the last dose anyway, even if the pain was bad enough. Which it isn't.

Ouch.

It's the opposite of her job to give Phoenix medical treatment anyway.

Maeve looks sceptical but sighs. "If you're sure then."

"Yes, sir."

As soon as they're out of earshot of Phoenix and Bailey, Zera turns to Elijah and stops bothering to hide how freaked they are.

"You know how we thought we might have a problem? Well, not only do we definitely have a problem, it's at least twice as big as we were worried it was."

Zera resists the urge to run their hand through their hair. "Both of these two? Seriously not okay. Poppet caught me from faceplanting earlier, using their powers, and panicked because they thought I would hurt them for that. And it wasn't me that figured that out. It was Phoenix. Didn't even take them a second of thought to catch on to Bailey's reasoning. Plus, both of them are acting like medical care is a luxury they have to earn, not a right that they have."