#dynamics discourse

[whomstdosthouthinkiis]

I'm swinging a bat at a honet's nest, but, legitmately, who the fck cares about dynamics. you're perscribing characterization based off of who takes it up the ass, you aren't better or more progressive just cause you make the gruff blond one do it instead.

idk what this "d/k/b/k" dynamic is, but it sounds ass. if it makes you think bkg isn't a yearner then congrats! you just made up a guy! Katsuki Bakugou is literally defined by yearning, read the damn source material and get better taste.

[that-satireguy]

[whomstdosthouthinkiis]

i guess I don't see the point of segregating those different dynamics, given that they have nothing to do with topping or bottoming, and aren't mutually exclusive. Kacchan is both bold, confident, outgoing, abrasive and shy, sensitive, and reserved. Izuku is both timid, tenderhearted, sensitive, and aggressive, obsessive, and arrogant. these are complicated, multifaceted characters. both deserve comfort, protection, and emotional catharsis, and should be the one to do the ass kicking. I understand people having a preference for what traits are emphasized, but not incorporating all of them means, well, it's going to be ooc. That's just how it goes.

What you have described to me...

timid katsuki x a possessive obsessed izuku… or a shy timid izuku x confident brash katsuki

...are both ooc, just in different ways. both of these readings flatten the various dimensions of their characters into, essentially, more easily written caricatures. I, as a person who is mostly a bkdk shipper (when it comes to my preference of who tops), would close a fic if either of these dynamics were emphasized to an extreme degree without balancing them with elements of their actual canonical personalities.

what is bothering me about this discussion, is the simply fact that, while you may say it's more than topping and bottoming, that is how it was originally intended and the basis of these diverging characterizations and communities; And I don't think you will ever escape that, especially when you yourself admit that both sides tend to feminize the bottom to some degree, which I have seen in action many times. As someone whose been in this fandom awhile, and in fandom in general for awhile, this isn't new, but it doesn't stop it from having... certain unfortunate connotations. From what I've gathered from various peoples framing, the general division still hinges on top as pursuer/aggressor/active-wooer/giver of affections vs. bottom as pursued/passive/object of affection.

when you pit bkdk = agressive/confident bk x passive/shy dk and dkbk = obsessive/possessive dk x shy/timid bk....

Even without active 'feminization', that's just heteronormativity.

I'm srry, that's just how it reads to me.

Someone can be a princess and still lay pipe, and someone can be the active-wooer and take back shots. The fact of the matter is bedroom dynamics have literally nothing to do with characters personalities, and the implication and tacit insistence that it does, and that's why the tags must be so starkly separated, is stepping in some very loaded and honestly kinda regressive ideas around queer relationships.

I don't say this to paint any group as "problematic" but it does have implications and patterns of behavior that need to be discussed. These issues and discourses don't exist in a cultural vacuum and it does us all a disservice to pretend like they do. (I see nothing wrong with exploring "problematic" things in fiction or shipping, it's okay to feminize characters and such, but pls at least be aware that's what is happening and the context around it). In essence, Izuku and Katsuki's dynamic in canon is neither one being purely active or passive in their affections toward each other; In fact their ever evolving relationship emphasizes how they've traded these roles back and forth, being equals in their deep abiding affections, competitive natures, and devotions to their convictions and each other. I do not see them as people who can so easily be split into roles or have their characterizations divided as such. I am mainly a bakudeku shipper, but that's simply because that was the tag at the fandom's founding. but I am also a switch shipper, because, again, I prefer their canonical relationship to any fanon interp, and do not see who tops as changing their dynamic whatsoever. (I have thought of katsuki as a princess, he's my favorite character whomst I love very much <3, but that doesn't make him inherently feminine or timid or a bottom, that's just me being hyperbolic in my affections).

I also find your insistence that there is one unified bkdk characterization to just be, well, entirely divorced from how I've interacted with the fandom. Because, while the two characterizations you've described are common, in such a large fandom it is plenty easy to find different fics of one supposed top/bottom dynamic that emphasize completely different parts of their personalities in completely opposite ways. Not to mention what about confident/protective bk x agressive/possessive dk? or timid/sweet dk x reserved/gentle bk? both are still ooc as well, but I think they are also very well founded in their characters and don't follow either of the dynamics you've laid out. TL;DR: I don't think these dynamics are easily separable or mutually exclusive, and I think that actually being true to their characters means acknowledging they do not fall into any such stereotypical molds of how top/bottom dynamics manifest in fandom (in fact most ships don't).

In all honesty, I don't think any of this discourse and separation is helpful to the fandom as a whole. I understand that the Japanese fandom does it... that doesn't mean it's actually best practice.

by all means, have your preference, but... it's really not that deep (or at least not in a good way). Just food for thought

Something that frustrated me a lot is how segregated bkdk and dkbk are from each other, like, It is the same characters! aren't we all on the same side?

But in the end, the difference is apparent when you read how they portray Izuku, I think that the thing, especially after chapter 431, is that people focus so much on Katsuki being 'rejected' that now Izuku is the that has to chase him (gain)

Their characterization changes so much depending on if bkdk or dkbk, at some point it stops being about who is topping who

yah all this bc I keep getting blocked by both sides bc I like both

[showsandstuff]

Squid Game season 2 based for giving us both toxic old man Yaoi AND the gay jerks who only really have each other duo

[bangs-coffee-fandoms-unite]

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Which best describes the ship you're currently most obsessed with?

it doesn't have to accurately describe the ship, just the descriptor you think is the most fitting. all gendered language is there to preserve the meme and should be read as gender neutral. please reblog for a greater sample size. if you are equally obsessed with multiple ships or currently not obsessed with any, just pick a ship you enjoy (if you don't like any ships, the dynamic you think sounds the most entertaining)

edit: if multiple fit perfectly, chose the aspect you like best about the ship

[basket-of-radiants]

Bribery for @highly-invested. I will draw dumb comics in exchange for discourse. Here's a very serious ship for when you're trying to hook up with your ex-best friend's dad.

[elevenenthusiast]

Seeing all the hate Bob and Yelena are getting as a romantic pairing reminds me of the backlash Harry and Hermione shippers always face. Lately, it feels like calling an m/f dynamic “sibling-coded” has become a go-to excuse to dismiss or even vilify a ship. Just because you don’t personally like a pairing doesn’t mean you have to label it as “gross” or “incestuous” when there’s no biological relation at all. It’s so fucking annoying how often people use that kind of language just to invalidate ships and attack those who enjoy them.

[kairithemang0]

Hate bitches that are like "if you like the toxic couple as fluffy you're being ooc and don't understand them" like shut UP I want to make the toxic couple fluffy because I THINK IT'S FUN!!! AND I WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY FOR 1000 WORDS! Now shut your trap and go chew on some stale white bread

[whomstdosthouthinkiis]

Okay, I think this is a perfect illustration of why the dynamics discourse is fcking poison and unhinged. I don't know why the fck people think the top/bottom dynamics matter, I don't get why you would spit such entitled, disgusting vitriol because a person doesn't adher to your fanon, or even ""community"" fanon. Fck the hell off with that shit.

We're all playing pretend with fake people, you don't get to give people ""advice"" because they are playing toys in a way you don't like

This is toxic fcking bullshit, and why I legitimately have come to hate the dkbk community, this entitled , sanctimonious, condescending contempt for the broader fandom.

News flash, we all were much happier when the bkdk/dkbk was just a tag for who topped/bottom. this insistence that we have to segregate character interpretations into seperate tags is weird and sad.

This guy needs to get a fcking life. Their behavior is way more damaging to the fandom than ""misstagging"" dynamics will ever be.

I’m sorry, but if you think kacchan bakugou isn’t a yearner then how are you reading mha at all

[that-satireguy]

Many 'allies' version of accepting trans men means stuffing them into a box where they must be unseperatable from cis, instead of reshaping the 'men' category to be inherently inclusive to trans men

'trans men must be ____ because they're men' ❌

'men can be _____ because trans men exist' ✅

[thewriteadviceforwriters]

✨writing rant because i’m UNWELL and someone said enemies to lovers is “overdone”✨

okay listen.

i don’t care how “overdone” the trope is. let her fall in love with the enemy prince. let him smile like a knife and lie like a prayer. let her fall anyway. and then let her stab him with a hairpin. a hairpin!! we deserve this.

this isn't about originality. this is about execution and emotional violence and aesthetically pleasing betrayal.

tropes aren’t dead. they’re haunting us in new outfits.

every trope is a reusable little narrative skeleton and you get to dress it in whatever cursed, beautiful, petty, yearning flesh your heart desires. you can take enemies to lovers and make it toxic, or tender, or tragic. you can give them shared trauma. you can make them childhood friends turned enemies turned lovers turned enemies again. you can make the stabbing literal or metaphorical. you can make it an almost-stabbing, where she presses the blade to his throat and doesn’t do it. you can make her do it and then sob in his arms while he bleeds out whispering her name like a prayer he never meant to say out loud.

you can make it GAY.

that’s the power of tropes. they’re not restrictive. they’re launchpads. they give readers expectations so you can BREAK them. or better--fulfill them in devastating, soul-twisting ways.

also. like. if you think a trope is “overdone” maybe it’s not the trope that’s the problem. maybe it’s just being written without any real teeth. no emotional bite. no stakes. no tension. no pain. and that’s not the trope’s fault. that’s just boring writing.

give me the obsessive yearning. give me the knife-to-throat confessions. give me the battlefield truce that turns into a five-second pause before they go right back to trying to kill each other. give me quiet moments in enemy territory where they realize they’re not so different. give me the one bed. give me the i hate you but i’d burn down a kingdom for you and hate myself for it.

let the prince kneel at her feet, kiss her knuckles like he’d never crush them, and then go home and report to his war council like nothing happened. let her wear the hairpin he gave her while plotting his assassination. let them both suffer about it. let them choose each other anyway. or don’t. let them fail. let them fall apart in the final act and still reach for each other across the ashes.

i literally do not care how many times we’ve seen it. i want it again. i want it done well. i want it done with spite and softness and aching inevitability. i want to feel like the betrayal was worth it. i want to scream into my hands and text my writer friends like “why would you do this to me” while secretly living for it.

write your trope. write it the way it’s been done before or write it sideways and backwards and messy. just write it with emotion. and a little hairpin. and blood under their fingernails.

okay bye

Rin T.

[thesulkycroissant]

I'm not exactly sure how to say this, but... the 180 turn from Dick being able to read Bruce super well to Dick misunderstanding everything Bruce says/does is very interesting to me. As the Dynamic Duo, they're perfectly in sync, but once they're apart, Dick's perception of events and Bruce's perception of events start to be so far apart.

My working theory is that their split caused Dick to question if he ever really understood Bruce, or if he'd been reading him wrong the whole time. His interpretation of what Bruce is doing/saying overwhelmingly skew towards the negative too. It makes me so sad for him, to be trying to work out who he wants to be as a person and simultaneously feel like his entire history with Bruce wasn’t what he thought it was after all.

[godmademewithoutarms]

I think the reason I like Krusie far more than Suselle is bc Krusie feels like they have a mutual understanding of each other for the most part like they're on the same wavelength while Suselle currently just feels like. Noelle falling for this Susie she had created in her head that doesn't match what Susie is actually like but more so the way people labeled her to be like

[lady-corrine]

THEY ARE GASLIGHTING THE PUPLIC 😭😭 kory really just let him like on Tamaran they have no rule against manipulation, gaslight, gatekeeper, bossgirl all acceptable 🗣️🗣️

Honestly they were having the time of their lives, they are genuinely the couple who would read all those comments and convos fighting over "Starfire and Nightwing" vs. "Starfire and Dick Grayson" and laugh and giggle over it all.

Like the press and public are crazy about them and the drama they invented in their heads about this relationship 😭

The reporters are genuinely loving this whole mess, they're invested 😭

(It's giving old Hollywood scandal 😭)

At its core though, the mess of this entire arc and the jokes aside, Dick's desire to be himself with her and to be seen with her without any masks or pretenses came from a very genuine place:

He genuinely wanted to be able to be himself while being with the love of his life, no wigs or fake names or pretenses.

This is honestly a very interesting arc to explore and I'm sure that we would have had much more of it and much more in depth if their planned wedding wasn't mandated. It's a very fun aspect of their relationship and it also deals with Dick's deep desire and longing to be himself, without masks, while being with Kory. The plan was a mess but Dick's hope for it to work and publicly declaring his love for Kory was very sweet.

It also makes such great material for the funnier and more comedic side, especially considering Kory's fame. I truly hope that someday in the future this will be revisited if they ever get together, or even by the fandom lol. It's a very underrated aspect of their relationship that really shows how complicit and hilarious they both are as a couple. It's lovely 😭

[sappho-favorite-pupil-fandoms]

as someone in this fandom has already said: i don't need the writers or the plots they write to "validate" my own personal politics. there's a lot of shows and books and movies that are good even though they are made, and therefore display, a multitude of political ideas i don't share.

but to me arcane season 2 is bad because the show completely forgets its own premises. you can't base the whole show on the premise that enforcers are a violent and oppressive force (the literal first scene is them murdering vi and jinx's parents) and then expect the audience to root for them.

same thing with vi's abuse, the writers went out of their way to let us know she was getting regularly beaten up in prison, and then they show us caitlyn hitting her with that rifle - wearing an enforcer uniform - and expect the audience to root for them to be back together in the end???