#especially compared to bylers

[ghostlycleric]

i find it rlly funny they arent comforting eachother about life or anything. mike hesitated to hold her hands here and if anything el was comforting mike through his bagillionth failed confession

buuttt… guess who does have a hand holding scene where one is actually comforting the other about life

byler would have been a much better much more fitting pair to put in that post like completely unbiased they just fit the prompt so much better

may i also point out that mike holding wills hand here calms will down (he stops shaking immediately) but el holding mikes hand doesnt calm mike down (even tho i dont really interpret the milkvan handhold as comfort? i cant decide but it doesnt blatantly scream im comforting you to me)

[eeriesilkworm]

Season 2 Mike definitely saw Max as a love rival for Will

Another Byler from Mike Wheeler's POV analysis—(Unrequited love trope edition).

Walk with me.

Sometimes I think about how when the party went trick-or-treating Mike specifically told Will that he, "should have checked with him" first before letting Max join them.

It's just a very peculiar moment. Why Will?

Even Will was confused by this, lol.

We know that Mike doesn't like Max in season 2 (for reasons we'll look into more), but why did he make this Will's problem/ responsibility? Especially after only knowing of her existence for 2 days at this point.

He wasn't angry at Lucas or Dustin—or at least, he didn't expect them to come to him for permission—otherwise he would have said something to them, too.

It was Will who he felt betrayed by and upset with.

Heck, go ahead and take a second look at the first screenshot provided above.

Does Mike look angry to you?

No—he looks forlorn.

Let me break it down for you:

I'll start by saying when the party learned of MADMAX the screename, they were all equally interested in knowing who it was.

But when Max is introduced to us as a character (and revealed to be a girl), we get markedly different reactions between the boys.

In the first frame, they have no idea who she is or what her name is. All they see is a new girl. (Played by Sadie Sink mind you, who is very pretty).

Look at Mike's face: he already looks sulky.

The second frame is after they learn her name is Max. Once again, all four boys show some level of interest, but Mike remains sulky.

Then we have the recess scene in which the boys are watching Max, which is very interesting.

Consider the blocking and body language in this frame:

Look at Will here: he's just as interested in Max as Lucas and Dustin are (even if his interest is not based on attraction). In fact, he's the main focus of this frame for some reason.

Mike is the only one who hangs back, and his body language is completely different from the other three (hands in pockets, meaning he is distanced). He has no interest whatsoever and his facial expression appears agitated.

Mike feels like the odd one out here.

Will fits in.

When they "lose the target" Will is the one who spots her and reinitiates the "watching." Once again, Will is the main focus of this shot and even seems to be showing the most interest; his expression is bright and engaged.

He runs with Lucas and Dustin to the wastebin while Mike trails behind begrudgingly, not wanting to be left behind.

It begs the question: why is Will the focal point among the four boys in a scene about looking at a girl, if he was never intended to be a love interest?

I argue it's because we're seeing this interaction from a very specific perspective—the perspective of Mike Wheeler, who is standing back and observing.

It's also worth noting that Will's change in demeanor and energy here is extremely apparent.

He is noticeably withdrawn and low in spirits this season due to his PTSD (both literal and metaphorical if you count the MF as a metaphor for trauma).

And Mike notices. He’s the one who points out that Will had been "quiet today"—a detail the others miss because they don’t watch Will the way he does.

Notice that Will is disengaged during the science lesson (before Max arrives), while the other three are nerding out. Will previously participated in the science fair—it typically interests him—but his mood is very low.

Then compare that with his immediate engagement when Max walks into the classroom, and the level of interest he showed during recess. Mike would certainly observe this shift, paying as much attention to Will as he does.

In fact, once the distraction of Max has passed and the principal comes to collect him, Will's body language retreats again; shoulders hunched, eyes downcast.

What conclusion do you think Mike would come to based off these few short interactions?

(And these are the only interactions Mike sees between Will and Max before trick-or-treating together the next day. Mike hasn't even spoken to her yet).

From Will's perspective, this girl is just a novelty: a light-hearted distraction from everything else going on, offering a spot of normalcy.

But from Mike's perspective, this is a pretty new girl showing up out of nowhere and immediately raising Will's spirits: something he felt like he failed to do.

And so it brings us to the trick-or-treating scene, in which Will (apparently) joins Dustin and Lucas in their enthusiasm for Max joining the party, while Mike hangs back and then begrudgingly follows, not wanting to be left behind.

Are we noticing the pattern?

Then we have Mike's confrontation with Will (this happens after Will is seen filming Max, btw). He tells Will he should have checked with him about Max joining them and that Max is, "ruining the best night of the year."

Uh... what? What did she do?

He then storms off: inentionally leaving Will behind this time.

(He wants him to know how that feels).

Following this interaction, Will has a big scare with the MF—and of course, it’s Mike who finds him first. Despite his mood, Mike is still attentive and protective.

Mike behaves possessively when he finds Will, not wanting the others to get involved. He takes Will “home” (his home) so they can be alone.

What follows is a scene that, put simply, is about reciprocation.

Interestingly, Mike’s attitude toward Max shifts after this scene with Will—he doesn’t have anything to say about Max joining the party in the AV room to look at Dustin’s pollywog.

This is the girl who apparently ruined Halloween.

You’d think he’d still be unhappy to see her.

But after that conversation with Will in his basement, Mike feels more secure and reassured about the state of their relationship.

He's no longer jealous.

So now, it's apparently fine for Max to be in the party.

Well, that changes again.

The next notable interaction is after Mike realises the pollywog is from the UD. Mike immediately goes into protective mode. It’s not Will who storms into the classroom to grab the trap—it’s Mike.

It’s also (presumably) Mike who locks Max outside of the AV room when they discuss this, yelling at her that she can’t come inside.

When she opens the door anyway, the pollywog escapes—and (of course) Mike blames her. No one else points fingers.

Now, the boys were hesitant to reveal any information about the UD for obvious reasons, but here we see the recurring theme in the Mike/Will/Max triangle: Mike’s protectiveness (and slight possessiveness) of Will.

So, a recap of Mike’s perspective so far:

First gripe: You’re hogging Will’s attention (possessive) Second gripe: You’ve compromised Will’s safety (protective)

Then we finally have the confrontation between Mike and Max:

It literally starts with Mike telling Max to leave because she's in the boys' room. (Similar to his "boys only" comment in season 3).

Let's not get it twisted: When Max finally asks Mike why he's been treating her the way he has been, he deflects.

Mike, who always has a ready opinion and is not afraid of confrontation, is not comfortable sharing the real reason why.

It’s commonly believed that Mike simply didn’t like Max because her presence reminded him of El’s absence—and I see it—but after a closer look, I no longer agree.

Firstly, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that Max would remind Mike of El (or rub salt in the wound of her absence) just because they’re both girls. Max and El couldn’t be more different—physically or otherwise—and that distinction feels intentional.

Mike would never compare Max to El, because to him, El is incomparable—a superhero who saved his (and Will’s) life.

Also, in Mike’s mind, El is still in the party—he lists her name off with the other members.

Max wouldn’t be a replacement.

He literally just stated that she would be an addition.

Secondly, Mike never actually makes this connection himself. He simply offhandedly mentions El when he’s trying to convince Max she’s not needed.

So why does he want her to stay away?

And when El is finally introduced (both through conversation and literally) to this dynamic, what happens?

Mike and Max begin to get along.

They share a smile.

If Mike’s issue with Max had anything to do with El, the scene wouldn’t have played out this way.

It’s classic misdirection.

The misdirection is so obvious they lean into it—even having El herself misinterpret Mike and Max’s relationship, becoming jealous.

She mistakenly assumes Mike is interested in Max, just like Mike mistakenly assumed Will was interested in her, too.

They’re giving the audience a warped perspective, urging us to look behind the curtain.

Mike’s behaviour towards Max fits perfectly into Byler’s shared arc in Season 2: Mike is attentive, protective, and possessive over Will, while Will—consumed by the MF—can’t fully reciprocate that attention.

The “crazy together” scene is the only time Mike receives the same energy back from Will the entire season.

I feel like people forget that when they talk about how cute Season 2 was for Byler. Cute from Will’s perspective, maybe (supernatural plot aside)—but for Mike?

We get multiple shots of Mike staring at Will or noticing his absence (Mike staring at Will’s empty desk being the most obvious example).

That’s called pining.

Will does not invite Mike to his house or show up uninvited—Mike does that. Will does not hold Mike’s hand—Mike does that. Will does not watch Mike closely or check in on him constantly—Mike does that. Will does not become possessive of Mike’s attention—Mike does that.

In fact, they play into this unreciprocated affection trope pretty blatantly—when Mike bares his heart to Will, tearfully recounting their first meeting, Will quite literally cannot respond because he’s possessed—even if he wants to.

Not to mention—Mike’s recount of their first meeting is also (thematically) about reciprocation:

“I asked if you wanted to be my friend. And you said yes. You said yes.”

Mike puts emphasis on the fact that Will said yes: the fact that Will reciprocated his feelings.

That is what he wants.

He wants validation that Will feels the same.

That Will won't leave him behind.

And what happens at the end of Season 2?

From a Byler perspective, this season is about Mike’s (seemingly) unrequited love for Will—and it directly influences Mike’s (very different) behaviour in Season 3.

So yeah.

Mike didn’t like Max because he was jealous, and coping with feelings for Will he feared were one-sided—and in his mind that was confirmed as true.

Why wouldn’t he be relieved to see El at the snowball dance?

Why wouldn’t he kiss her?

Why wouldn’t he immediately start dating her and pushing Will away?

[mike-wheel]

heart to heart

this scene is meant to be hopeful for Will but mainly the audience.

The flirting and overall closeness of mike and wills relationship are very apparent in this scene but it literally is supposed to tell the audience "Guys theyre flirting!!!" "Guys there is hope for this ship!!!"

The show has established that Will believes hes not going to fall in love and acts as an active force in trying to fix Mike and El's relationship:

Season 3: "I'm not gonna fall in love" - Will

Season 4: Jonathons bedroom scene, the van scene, cartop scene, mikes confession scene.

Yet, the show continues to give the audience hope, especially with the heart to heart scene. This scene is AFTER the Jonathons bedroom scene, where we actively see Will showing support for Mike and El and reassuring Mike he can fix things with El

So it's been established that a) Will does not have hope Mike will love him back, and b) With that belief, he will instead support his best friend's relationship

So its strange to me to include these two details in the heart to heart scene if not for byler endgame:

Will literally getting flustered.

His reaction is fully shown and emphasized with him turning away from words MIKE said.

It could be argued this is just to show Will's feelings for Mike, however, this would be such a contrast to how we've normally seen Wills feelings for Mike exhibited, which to put it simply is just sadness. This is directed to be much more lighter, playful, HOPEFUL !

these are shots of Will's feelings about Mike clearly established prior to the heart to heart scene. They feel lonely, the music in Rink O Mania is somber, and he even crumbles the painting that symbolizes his love for mike because he feels hopeless.

Compared to this?

They're both smiling until Will gets nervous and looks away. The lighting is warmer, the music starts ONCE will gets nervous, an indication the scene is beginning to become more intimate. And hes not alone; it doesnt feel lonely because its just him and mike.

If the intention was to never have mike love will back, why not just continue with the sad shots for Wills "unrequited" feelings? Why show a scene that plays like requited love? Why show Will interacting with his crush like it is a building romance story? Because it is and is purposefully there to give both Will and the audience hope!

Which moves me to the second detail! -> Will grabbing the painting and taking it with him.

As i said earlier, the painting is a symbol of Wills love for mike and its use constantly changes as Wills emotions do.

When Wills apart from Mike pre-visit, he spends all his time painting and pouring his heart into this piece -> a physical representation of the longing, importance, and time that Will pours into loving Mike

When Mike ignores him and his painting at the airport, he crumbles it -> symbolizes his frustration and confusion and him losing hope not only for his love but their friendship

Its then this detail of Will grabbing the painting that symbolizes his hope being regained.

The cameras focus shifts from Will watching MIKE leave the room -> onto the painting -> moves with the painting as it goes into the bag -> back onto Will

It intentionally focuses on the painting because yes it is important in moving the story forward for Will, Mikes and as an extension Els growth. But its also to say "Look, Will has hope and you should too." If they just wanted to emphasize the painting's importance in the story, they could have only focused the camera on the painting but instead it starts with Will and ends with Will to emphasize how the painting is an extension of Wills feelings.

Will went from crumbling up this painting the previous day to making the split second decision to bring the embodiment of his love after a 1 minute conversation with Mike. Not only emphasizing that Mike is the heart, but also that there is something different between Mike and Will. And Will can feel that, and so should the audience.

+ when Will decides to instead be selfless because his love for Mike, Mikes well being, and cause of happiness (which he believes to be Milkvan), so he decides to use his feelings in place of El's to help Mike instead → symbolized by Will LITERALLY giving away his painting showing his selflessness but also him letting go of Mike and the hope of anything happening between them.

In so many other scenes Will's love for Mike although beautiful, is shown to be tragic and something he views and acts as if unrequited. And if byler wasnt endgame, the most logical sense would to be continue showing Will's perspective as such. But instead we get a vital scene of Will gaining enough hope to bring the painting and when the party has hope, the audience should have hope too.

i have a lot more thoughts but thats it for now!

[reddthekingg]

Turns out I don't CARE. Have my big-ass Byler post:

Mike and El were never romantic. Let me explain. (Seasons 1-4)

Big Byler-centric Mike/eleven analysis from my slightly media literate ass.

(disclaimer: this is all just my opinion!!!!! you dont have to agree with me at all, and if you have any suggestions/edits or points you think are wrong for X Y Z reasons, tell me in the comments!!!! I like hearing other peoples views on things :D also my apologies if this doesnt read well, ive been sitting on it for a couple weeks now so ive been writing in little blips every once in awhile)

Season 1

From the beginning, Mike had pressures to be with El. He never began to exhibit romantic behaviours towards her until after Lucas suggested he has feelings for her. He only kisses her after Nancy assumes he has a crush on her.

Children, especially at such a young age, are impressionable. This applies to both Mike and El.

Mike is being told by multiple people in his life to pursue a romantic relationship with a girl he met only a week or so prior. A girl, mind you, he only wants to keep around when she proves herself useful to him when searching for Will. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Mike calls her a machine at one point. Doesn't exactly seem like the basis for a crush, does it?

As for El, she's just escaped the lab she was raised in and has met the first people ever outside of that environment (excluding Benny, of course). I don't like comparing El to an animal, but she's reminiscent of a baby duck. Baby ducks imprint on the first people they see. For her, it's Mike. El does not have the same pressures from everyone else to be romantic with Mike, in fact she's quite ready to be his sister, as she so states. The only pressure of romance she gets is from Mike himself with the kiss.

There is one whole scene before they kiss that implies a bit of romance where there in a bathroom together and Mike says she's still pretty without hair + makeup. However, neither party really seems interested in it.

(Little thing to note about this scene! The use of the word pretty. It can be argued that Mike meant it romantically, but I'd say otherwise. In Stranger Things, specific words have meaning and we're told that they do. Think about the word crazy. Through lines in the show and posts from people who have worked on it, we know that crazy = love. Where am I going with this?

El calls Billy's mother pretty. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the word pretty hasn't been used anywhere else other than here and with El and Mike. We can safely assume El doesn't have feelings for Billy's mother, so if the assumption that crazy = love, can we assume that pretty does not have romantic connotations? Maybe it's a reach but I thought it was worth pointing out.)

All of this to say, in Season 1, their "relationship", and I use that word sparingly, is built off of pressures from Nancy and Lucas on Mike's side, and El assuming that's just what happens since it's what's happening to her. This is on top of the trauma bond El and Mike have.

Season 2

I think what solidified their decision was El going into the Upside Down. If all was well and El didn't have to leave the group and Season 1 was the whole story, I think their relationship would have played out very differently. Think about "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and all that bollocks. I think that because of the year apart and how much they missed one another, they became closer for it and mistook it for a romantic longing. That leads to their reunion in Season 2.

However, think about it. Typically with romantic couples in media and all it's different forms, when reunited after a long time being apart, they normally share a kiss? Or... at least just seem romantic?

Look, maybe it's just me, but this doesn't read as romantic.

Obviously, the two are bonded together, so the scene is emotional. I don't like when a lot of Bylers imply that Mike doesn't care about El at all, because he clearly does. The two have an incredibly strong bond due to trauma and just trusting one another. Doesn't mean it's romantic.

Then the Snow Ball. Not much to say on the matter because, yeah, I definitely think there is analysis to be done on it, but personally, this is a scene I don't have an explanation for. Other than Mike pining yearning and longing for Will.

(Very quick and not important thing to note. I started reading Darkness on the Edge of Town, Hopper's book, and it's set right after the Snow Ball, after Christmas, and I noticed something.

''You manage to raise Mike yet?'' El sighed ... He watched as she headed back to the couch and picked up the hefty rectangle of her new walkie-talkie, holding it out to him, like he could somehow conjure up her friends out of thin air.

Just thought it was interesting how Hopper mentioned Mike and then went on to say El's friends, considering this was after the Snow Ball and after their kiss.)

Fast forward to:

Season 3

In terms of El, this is where my view point of her romantic feelings becomes more disprovable, but I'm going to push forward anyway.

In the story now, everything is normal. No more monsters, the gate is closed, all is well and our kids can go back to being normal kids. Enter Mike Wheeler and El Hopper making out. Actually the most uncomfortable scenes to watch in the whole show. Let me talk about why it's happening.

Mike and Eleven, up until now, have not had your usual relationship. They've been seperate, battling monsters and have not had a moments peace since meeting. My opinion on why they're so close at the start of this season is because it's expected, same as most things about their relationship.

I know I sound like a broken record using that excuse for the majority of aspects about their relationship, but I'm doing it because the majority of aspects about their relationship can be explained with that reasoning.

For Mike, his attempt at living up to the expectations set for him is a lot easier to think about in terms of why he's doing it.

He was raised in your typical nuclear household, a mother and a father and 2 sisters. Think about the time period. The AIDs crisis was at a peak, there was a massive stigma around it all. I've spoken to my mum before about it all (she would've been the same age as the main 4 ST kids during that time) and she explained that there was this huge fear around AIDs. Being openly queer was not the norm, nor was it socially acceptable, nearly completely frowned upon. Films, TV and books portrayed romances about men and women and nothing else. Think about a young boy who has even the inkling that he might be gay. Everything at the time presented to this hypothetical boy tells him that he is wrong. Think about Will, his own father calling him slurs because he's not like every other boy.

Taking the assumption that Mike is in fact gay rather than bi or straight and placing him in the position of said hypothetical boy, what do you think the outcome would be? Because despite what some Milevens will say, it is not that Mike would accept himself fully and never would have dated El in the first place. It leaves us with a boy who is forced into a life of lying to himself and others, making moves to conceal his true identity in hopes of fooling other people and most importantly, fooling himself.

I am a firm believer that Mike suffers from compulsory heterosexuality, or comphet.

''Compulsory heterosexuality, often shortened to comphet, is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal, allonormative, and heteronormative society.''

I completely disagree when people say Mike used El as his beard (a person who is used, knowingly or unknowingly, as a date, romantic partner [boyfriend or girlfriend], or spouse either to conceal infidelity or to conceal one's sexual orientation) from day one. I believe that, while it may not be true, both parties did believe they shared romantic feelings for the other, because it was expected of them that they did. Mike, his whole life, saw his parents, kids at school, people in shows, games, everywhere, be a boy and a girl in love. And he met a girl. So, logically, he should like her. Right? But he doesn't. And because he's never had any past experiences, he can't tell the difference between romantic and platonic attraction. All he knows is what he's ''supposed to do.''

El is a bit easier to explain.

Think about the baby duck analogy from earlier. Mike is the first (technically second after Benny but shhhh) person out-with the lab to show her kindness. She has bonded to him, and Mike initiated a kiss between them. Romance is, obviously, not something she's ever dealt with in her life. It is a concept entirely foreign to her and it continues to be after her and Mike separate. So think, once she gets to Hopper's in Season 2, what is the only thing she has to entertain herself?

Television.

It can be pretty safely assumed she watched her fair share of trashy teen romcom movies as well as dramatic romance movies, all pieces of media that showed her the ''traditional'' route that a girl and a boy will take in their romantic journey. At this point, her and Mike have kissed, so in watching these movies, they teach her brain what are the ''natural next steps'' for her and Mike.

I don't think I'm explaining my point well, so if you need further clarification, let me know. It's difficult to explain but it's generally the same logic I applied to Mike (assuming he is, in fact, gay). His whole childhood, he see's boys and girls being in love and assumes thats what he should be doing. It's similar for El. She sees couples in love and being happy and assumes thats what her and Mike should be doing.

When you apply all this to Season 3, things become a little bit clearer in why they're so (uncomfortably) close. Their whole ''relationship'' was taken up with saving the world or saving each other and other people, this is the first time things are normal and they're expected to be, well... normal.

This really applies to the whole season. There are only 2 more key Mileven moments I want to touch on from this season which means I'll be excluding the rain fight. I'm doing this because while obviously the scene offers a huge insight into Mike's character, the focus this post is specifically around his and El's feelings about each other, so I want to focus on scenes in which they're together.

Now:

Oh boy! I'd like to point out 2 major points here.

One, just because Mike loves El, which I do not doubt at all, no where does he or the show specify that in this scene he meant it romantically.

Two, who are the only other couple that said the L-word?

Yeah.

Not only were Stancy the only other couple to say ''I love you'' to one another, they're the only other couple to use said ''I love you'' as a driving force in their relationship ark. And that driving force drove their relationship... into the ground!

We have multiple canonical couples in the show that have never uttered the L-word to each other but we have scenes between those pairs that leave no room for doubt about how they feel.

Just saying, it's interesting that arguably the biggest couple of the show are paralleled to one of the weakest and worst couples in the show. Meanwhile Mike and Will have parallels with Jonathan and Nancy, a couple which value one another and work better than Stancy could have ever hoped.

My last analysis about Season 3 is one of my favourite in terms of Mike.

El tells mike she loves him, and kisses him.

I'm sure every Byler has heard this scene been picked to pieces about Mike, so I'll keep it brief.

Mike has his eyes open, and as another user pointed out (I can't remember who, sorry!!), seems to be pulling away from the kiss, he is very clearly not kissing her back, and just seems... confused and disinterested. All great signs that he absolutely loves his girlfriend back, right? ...right?

As for El, cast your minds back to what I said before about her watching cheesy romcom movies. What is the most common trope in almost all romance movies? The big love confession. El knows Mike loves her (romantically or not is to be debated, I made my side clear) and her primary source of knowledge of what happens in relationships is through what she sees in movies and television, which in my mind is what lead her to give Mike this grand declaration of love (well, not grand, but you get the gist). In her mind, it is what's expected.

El is creating a relationship out of idealistic movies and (saying this very bluntly) has not stopped to consider if it's something she actually wants rather than what she thinks she wants. Obviously, I'm assuming a lot with that statement, but the evidence to back it up does exist.

Max is a wonderful influence on El during Season 3, teaching her to think for herself and be someone that she wants to be. And what is one of the first big decisions El makes during this journey? To break up with Mike. I'll concede in the fact that, yes, the breakup was influenced by Max's advice, but it's a decision El made herself, even if she ended up going back on it.

Time for Mike's gayest season of all!

Season 4

(I'm going to concede slightly here, I don't really know how to explain most of El's feelings here. So, this section is going to be centred around Mike's feelings towards El. Please drop some El analysis in my asks/DMs/comments to include and I'll make sure to credit you in the post!)

The season begins with a letter from El to Mike and we see him reading it. When called upon by Nancy, Mike crumples up El's letter and throws it to the ground. Compare this to all the letters Mike has sent El, kept away in a box. He's careless with her love, as it were. There's definitely more to be said here, but I'm more knowledgable with the rest of the season, so I'll focus on that.

Let's fast forward a bit to the airport scene.

We see Mike in unusual attire. Colours his character has never worn before in a style he's never been dressed in. Red flag number one. The two share the only kiss they have for the whole season and embrace, with Mike holding a bundle of flowers for El. She looks at the tag attached to said flowers, see's Mike writes from rather than love, and the camera focuses on her face while she falters.

There's a couple things to analyse here, so let's start with Mike's outfit.

One of El's primary colours in the show is purple, confirmed later on by Mike when he mentions he picked purple flowers since it's her favourite colour. This shows us the colour of Mike's shirt is intentionally supposed to reflect El, especially since he has never worn this colour before. Interesting to note that it's a t-shirt he's wearing, since Mike's wardrobe is composed of button downs, sweaters and polo shirt primarily. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time we've seen him in anything other than that.

Argyle points out later in the scene that Mike's shirt is a ''shitty knock-off.''

In a GQ interview with Stranger Thing's costume designer, we're told the following about Mike's costume in Season 4:

''So Mike Wheeler's outfit was written into the script that way... So we knew we'd wanted something that felt like an outfit maybe he would've bought at the airport before he got there... It's not a colour Mike normally wears.. We had made two colourways. We made orange and teal, and he's worn teal before, so it felt orange was the best colour that was different that felt he was trying to make it work in California.''

This is really interesting! There's another interview moment which ties in with this which I can't find at the moment so I can't quote it word for word, but I believe Finn says something along the lines of Mike acting unlike himself this season.

The costume choices in this scene are meant to reflect Mike's feelings.

When in California, more specifically when in this outfit, Mike is not acting like himself. He is trying to make things work by changing himself to be more attuned to what El wants, and more importantly, putting on a persona, arguably a heterosexual persona. Mike, of course, is not alone in the fact he's acting like someone else, because El is doing the same.

By choosing to omit the bullying and struggles she experiencing in Lenora, going so far as to outright lie to Mike by telling him Angela and Stacy are her friends, El is trying to act like the ''perfect girlfriend'' for Mike. She is presenting herself as happy, that her life is wonderful in all it's facets, in the hopes that Mike will finally begin expressing his love to her if she's good enough (I know that analysis does diminish El a bit, but it is my personal opinion on why she's acting the way she is.), as well as wanting to be the picture-perfect couple she wants them to be perceived as.

Of course, this vision shatters at Rink-O-Mania when El shmacks Angela in the face with a roller-skate. It's from this point on that their relationship falls downhill over the course of the whole season.

After they get home and everyone is eating dinner, Jonathan and Argyle speak about how Angela will be fine. Mike's reply is ''She didn't look fine'', and El storms off from the table. This scene is a parallel to one between Karen and Ted in Season 1(?) in which Karen storms off and Ted takes a sip of his drink, and Mike and El do the exact same.

Curious to parallel the shows ''leading couple'' with a failing marriage.

Then, we have Mike and El's big fight.

The fight starts on the basis of Mike mentioning the night before with Angela.

Mike knows that El has been lying to him for a long time about her life in Lenora and has seen first hand how she's been treated. He's upset and confused and El is shutting him off.

And... that's all I got done. I'll probably revisit this post in the future when I have time, but dear god, I have a lot of coursework right now, so now is not the time.

[love-byers]

DM-GATE (a st/byler theory)

if you saw this last night, strap in. because this post is about that

so me and @reo-bylerwagon were talking about how weird mike's dialogue is in s4, specifically in his monologue. it's so....corny. his monologue just doesn't sound like stranger things. mike just doesn't talk like that ever. characters who are overly dramatic and corny are made fun of by other characters. the show just doesn't train you to accept something as corny as mike's monologue, especially from MIKE. mike just isn't that kind of character.

we also pointed this dramatic dialogue between mike and will in the van. will's monologue to mike is very sweet but the dialogue is kind of corny too. will compares mike to a knight in shining armor, leading and inspiring as the heart of the party.

and i, in a moment of completely oblivious genius, said "honestly in the monologue he uses the same voice he does when he's dm"

if you don't know what dm is, it means dungeon master. the dungeon master is the one in dnd who leads the adventure, the organizer.

this is the role mike has in season 1 when they're playing dnd. will is also dm in s3 when they briefly play, right before the byler rain fight. eddie is the only other character we see be dm.

dms have to be eccentric, they have to act. they have to be convincing. they have to lead and guide.

in the painting will gives mike, the party are depicted as their dnd characters. so no one can even say this isn't connected to dnd.

"See how you're leading us? You're guiding the whole party, inspiring us. That's what you do.

See your coat of arms here? It's a heart. I know it's sort of on the nose, but that's what holds this whole party together. Heart. Because, I mean, without heart, we'd all fall apart."

in the monologue when will calls back to their conversation in the van, this is symbolic of mike reverting back to his role as dungeon master, as leader. if mike has to lie in the monologue, of course he would pull from a role he's played where he makes things up and sounds convincing.

@reo-bylerwagon gave the best line ever, "he's being the mike in the painting"

and the craziest part is that's CANON. mike is inspired by what will says, he takes it to heart. he feels more confident. he tries to be the mike in the painting. it should be easy, to speak from his heart to el, but it's not, because he's not in love with her. in the monologue, mike is doing the same thing he does when he's dm. he's performing. he's trying to be convincing. he's trying to guide, to inspire.

also, @reo-bylerwagon said that will pushing mike to giving the monologue is giving "MIKE YOUR ACTION!!" WHICH IS SO FUCKING TRUE😭😭

after this realization i went back and watched the scenes where mike is dming. the VERY FIRST LINE OF DIALOGUE we hear in the show is mike dming. "Something is coming, something hungry for blood." and the second line?

i could never put a finger on why mikes language in the monologue seemed so weird. it's because he's talking like a dm. he's using the dramatic language dms use during a dnd session.

@reo-bylerwagon also pointed out that mike and will are piggybacking off of dnd to save el. everyone in the final fight was piggybacking.

will set the stage, mike executed. 

also, i mentioned the only other character see be dm besides mike and will is eddie.

and what is eddie's big moment in s4?

Master of Puppets.

MASTER. OF PUPPETS. DUNGEON MASTER. DUDE.

and another thing

we've all seen this, but it's not only that mike and will's characters are on the book.

it's a dungeon masters guide.

with mike and will's characters on it.

mike and will. the only party members we've seen be dungeon masters.

COME THE FUCK ON.

AND ANOTHER THING

"Dude, that's the donation box."

"I know, I'll just use yours when I come back. I mean...if we still wanna play."

"Well yeah but...what if you want to join another party?"

"Not possible."

this is a dm i got like 2 years ago that changed my brain chemistry:

this is NOT a reach. everything in st is compared to dnd. the duffers are massive dnd nerds. it is not unbelievable that they'd connect this to dnd as well.

[ven0moir]

So, Bychance is on my radar and ... I think it'll actually happen.

Disclaimer, I realize this is me going full unhinged mode and some of this might be because I'm so bored lately but the more I think about where we left Will off in S4, the more I think Will might actually take a chance ( lmao? ) to be with someone new, even if deep down he knows it's not in his best interests--it'll be more a coping mechanism, an attempt to move on from Mike, and without realizing he might be repeating the pattern of his parent's relationship due to trauma.

This will ultimately result in growth for him, of course, and the breaking of these cycles. Will Byers will be free in the end, but the road there won't be easy.

So here we go--by the leaks of Holly being taken, and the outfits they are wearing, we can infer S5 Byler will mirror S1 Jancy.

Yeah. And how did Nancy start S1?

Having a one-time, two-time secretive thing with a jock ( bully ) that left a note in her locker at the start of the season.

Something something bullies leaving a note in Will's locker at the start of the season.

Something something a bully leaving a note at the start of S5 in Will's locker with a place and time to meet.

And what is one of the most noticeable things that Stancy and Mileven have in common?

Yeah, they start seemingly very passionate, only to fall apart later. Add Bychance to that mix.

Now, about the place and time where Chance and Will likely secretly meet. At first I thought it would be Benny's Burger.

Benny's Burger, which also foreshadows Mike telling Eleven something about her Benny Burger's t-shirt in EP9. It is also established in these screenshots that Benny's Burger is a place commonly used for people to hang out, likely teenagers, to engage in illegal things like drinking ( and probably more, the 69 poster above Lucas' head notwithstanding )

We also have the whole 'WE ❤️ TIGERS' posters, and Christmas Lights which we have come to associate with Will, as it has been established that this is Will's favorite holiday as well.

However, Chance and Will would have to be extra careful not to get caught, so chances are they'll go for places that aren't frequented ...

Now, the main question is, why Chance? And I'll admit this is all oh so fairly loose and likely a reach, but if we are to believe Will is going to have a secret thing with a bully, then out of all of the ones introduced in S4, Chance is the one that I'd dare to say we can connect Will with through symbolism, albeit vague.

The first time we see Chance, we see the poster 'Defeat The Falcons' closer to him than anyone else on the team even though he was on the bench.

Now, correct me if Im wrong, but if there is an association with Mike and falcons, then it could hint at Mike having lost to chance this season. Foreshadowing he loses to a literal Chance next season? Since Chance didn't come out the bench this season. Yikes. Good luck, Mike. You're gonna need it.

We also notice he's sporting the number 22 in his shirt ( which considering the attention brought to t-shirts this season, I'd say this means something, especially bc 22 is Will's birthday and it is also speculated to be the date of the Creel Murders -- Chance and Will meeting at the Creel House oh god ... ).

Speaking of 22, this scene is interconnected with Will in California through music--it does have a similar context in which both Lucas and Will feel abandoned by their friends. But we also see what you could argue is an extra that is supposed to remind us of Chance behind Will wearing a shirt ( again with the shirts ) that says 'I love contact sports'

Moments before, we *just* saw Chance next to Lucas, in the same spot we see Mike as well--as if the two are being compared. ( Tiger vs Falcon? )

We know Will is associated with tigers, but we can also infer that he loves tigers, which connects him to the 'WE ❤️ YOU TIGERS' poster in Benny's Burgers.

This is as far as I have gone in my analysis, but I might rewatch S1 and S3 at one point to follow along the narrative patterns and see if I can uncover more.

My guess right now is if Bychance is established early on, then it might go for about a couple episodes before it inevitably crashes and burns--with Will being the one to end things, and then Byler happens at the end in a way that pays off.

[miwiheroes]

Day 37: Lightning Flashes

(so starting my analysis posts again has been a long time coming but im no longer titling it doing it every other day until s5 becauseeeee uh its just so much pressure so im doing it whenever i want bc thats much less embarrassing... also i'll still be updating my google slides with these posts)

So there is much, much to unpack about the love monologue scene so I'll be breaking it down in approx. 4 different posts. An establishing thing to know about this scene is that the monologue was never meant to feel like a totally positive thing for every character. From the beginning end of the season, the viewer is supposed to want the same thing as El -- for Mike to tell El that he loves her. However, I think by the love monologue, by the time that he actually does the thing that he wants: the viewer is no longer supposed to feel totally satisfied.

This is in keeping with the theme at the end of Season 4 -- they did not win against Vecna this time. And it's not just an unhappy ending for Max, Lucas, everyone in Hawkins, it's also an unhappy ending for Will, Mike and El. Well, I wouldn't say totally unhappy, but it's definitely not a successful ending for anybody, which is supposed to be a tonal shift after the endings of the other seasons which are all very "everything is solved and seems okay but there's still more to be done."

So: The writers need to try to make it seem less like a satisfying ending that the viewer is supposed to want. Instead, it has a slightly darker tone as a result of Will's feelings, the fact Will's feelings are fuelling the monologue, El's arc and of course the cinematography.

This is the moment after Mike says I love you:

With a lightning flash placed right at that moment (may I remind you, that this is all intentionally placed and there is absolutely no chance this is a coincidence, hello??) the viewer is supposed to be led to believe that this isn't the satisfying culmination of their story that had been expected beforehand. El's face does not look shocked, even.

I never expected her to look happy especially when she's literally tied up like this, but looking upset/ pensive throughout pretty much the whole monologue while there are lightning flashes, and the vines continue to tighten around her neck. They only begin to rescind after she looks over at Max, and when Mike reminds her to fight.

That, paired with the lightning, this confirms without even needing to hear what Mike has to say that this isn't supposed to be satisfying or relieving. This isn't supposed to be a romantic, intimate moment. Lightning doesn't do anything but forebode something dangerous. Having it as a background noise during a love monologue is a choice by itself, but having it ring loud and clear straight after Mike saying that he loves her - it's almost like the lightning is begging for the audience to recognise that this is a bad thing for both El and Mike.

Will telling Mike to say these words were a mistake - a misbelief and a self-sacrifice that was taken too far and ultimately will lead to more harm in the future.

I will talk more about other people being in the shots of Mike in my next post, as there is much to say about that - but I want to quickly compare the 'intimacy' from the monologue in S4 and the intimacy in Mike's monologue from S2.

Season 4: Lightning continues to flash, there is a lot going on with El being tied up and the red lighting, and while Mike is the obvious focal point of the shots, Will and Jonathan are cut back to, reminding you of their presence in the scene.

Season 2: There is no other sound other than Mike's talking and Will's breathing, the lighting is extremely stark to cause a sense of tension and urgency that Mike feels, no other characters are in shot or cut back to despite being in the shed. Will is in danger but his facial expression is still soft.

So for anyone that even tries to tell me that the love monologue completely trumps Byler probably needs to rewatch to get rid of their delusions because this is definitely not supposed to be a happy ending, it is not supposed to be satisfying in the least. I honestly don't think anyone was satisfied back in 2022 watching this unless they had the bias of already being a mileven fan from before S4. There were obviously other factors that go into this feeling of unsatisfaction in this ending, but the lighting and the non-intimacy feeling of this scene is super telling.

[ang31ixx]

Byler Endgame

Disclaimer: I don’t hate Mileven or Mike and El’s relationship. I genuinely love both characters and everything they’ve been through together. This isn’t about bashing ships or invalidating their bond—it’s about exploring the quiet, unresolved emotions between Mike and Will. Sometimes people outgrow each other or hurt each other without meaning to, and that doesn’t make either of them villains. It just makes them human.

There’s something about the way the show frames Mike and Will's relationship that feels different from anything else in the series. It isn't loud or overtly romantic, but it has this unspoken intensity, a quiet weight that builds across seasons. In contrast to Mike and Eleven, who are written with clear, verbal expressions of love and more conventional romantic beats, Mike and Will’s dynamic is laced with silences, hesitation, and layered meaning—hallmarks of a relationship built on something unsaid.

Take the painting in Season 4, for instance. It’s not just that Will paints Mike as the heart of the party, it's that he uses the language of fantasy—something they both bonded over as kids—to express his feelings. It’s coded, both for Mike and for the audience. He attributes the painting to El, masking his own emotions in a gesture of protection, but when he starts explaining it, you can see him coming undone. He talks about how Mike makes El feel safe, needed, not like a mistake—but the camera lingers not on Mike reacting to El, but on Will, visibly trembling, struggling to hold back tears. He’s not just talking about El. He’s trying to say everything he’s carried alone for years. That speech is a confession disguised as encouragement. And Mike looks at him in that moment with a softness that isn’t confused, but deeply conflicted.

Will has been positioned from the very beginning as different—not just in terms of his connection to the Upside Down, but in how the people around him perceive him. Joyce calls him "sensitive," Lonnie tries to push him into traditional masculinity, and Mike has always protected him with a kind of fierce loyalty that borders on something deeper. That "different" isn't just about his trauma or his powers—it’s about his identity. The show is gradually unfolding a queer coming-of-age story through Will, and his feelings for Mike are central to that arc.

There’s also the way Mike behaves around Will that’s subtly but significantly different from how he is with anyone else. In Season 2, when Will is being tormented by visions, Mike is constantly by his side, almost obsessively so. There’s a moment when Joyce says “he’s not going to get better if you’re hovering over him like this,” and Mike responds almost angrily. That level of concern and protectiveness is more than just friendship. It feels personal. When Bob takes a supportive role in Will’s life, Mike becomes jealous and withdrawn. It’s not framed comedically. It reads like someone being edged out of a space that means more to him than he’s ready to admit.

Then there's the infamous Season 3 line: “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls.” This line alone changed everything for a lot of viewers. The line isn’t dismissed, and Mike doesn’t deny it. He just freezes. The moment is so raw and real—it doesn’t feel like a scripted jab in a teenage argument. It feels like the kind of accidental truth that slips out when emotions are high. And the fact that the show never revisits that moment directly makes it feel all the more intentional. The silence that follows is heavy with meaning.

When we look at Mike’s relationship with El in contrast, it begins to feel performative, especially in Season 4. He struggles to say "I love you" until he’s almost forced to, and even then, the delivery is hesitant. His interactions with her often feel emotionally distant, as though he's trying to convince himself that this is what love is supposed to feel like. Compare that to the way he looks at Will, especially in the van scene. The tension in that moment isn’t just about Will crying. It’s about Mike watching him fall apart and being unable—or unwilling—to truly acknowledge the reason why.

All of this comes together to form a slow-burn narrative that’s rooted in repression, longing, and emotional depth. The Duffer Brothers don’t write in a way that hands everything to the audience on a platter. They’ve said they want Season 5 to resolve the emotional arcs that have been building since the beginning. And among those, few are as rich or as quietly devastating as Mike and Will’s.

It’s not about whether they kiss on-screen or even say “I love you.” It’s about what’s been brewing beneath the surface. The way Will looks at Mike. The way Mike looks back, like he’s seeing something he can’t quite name. The way the story has always kept them circling each other, unable to connect fully, because the world isn’t ready—or maybe because they’re not ready. But when the story ends, it feels inevitable that they’ll have to confront the truth. Because if Stranger Things is about anything, it’s about confronting what’s been hiding in the dark.

And Mike and Will? They’ve been hiding in plain sight all along.

[castlebyersthoughts]

Okay, I heard there's a new Finn interview and both sides are celebrating, so I'm gonna give my two cents about Finn's answer.

I'm linking the full video, question is at 2:39. On a related note, please, guys, before you make up your mind about something and start to relay it, go check the source for yourselves. It's easy for people to cut something out of their posts and reactions, and this is how misinformation gets spread.

So, the question was: "What are your thoughts about the Eleven storyline?", which is such a vague question, what does it even mean? What Eleven storyline? I believe they meant the Mike and Eleven romance storyline, but it would've been interesting to see how they worded this question to Finn directly. Instead we'll just have to assume he's talking about Mike and El's romantic relationship.

I'll try to be objective first, then I'll give my opinion. In the first part of the answer, Finn's talking about how their relationship started as an "ET kind of thing" but then it "turns out to be a young girl that (Mike) ends up having feelings for". Once again, Finn doesn't seem to believe it was love at first sight for Mike. To be completely fair, this doesn't have to mean anything about season 5, it could be a difference of opinion between Finn and the writers, which is a thing that happens. Sometimes actors interprets their character's feelings differently.

So here Finn is re affirming the canon: Mike saw El as "creature" he had to protect, then ended up developping feelings for her and they got into a relationship. He could be saying the truth or he could lying here, in order not to spoil a certain season 5 twist, there's really no way to know. As a bi Mike truther though, I think that part was true. Notice how he never talked about Mike's current feelings for El though, he only said that the relationship evolved.

Then it becomes more interesting, as once again, Finn shifts the focus from Mike and El as a couple to instead talk about "having close relationships with people that are outsiders", which is something that he thinks "a lot of people identify with". If he was still talking about Mike and El, why did he say it like that? It would've been so easy to say "I think people see themselves in Mike and El because they're both outsiders and that's why they identify with this relationship". Simple and to the point. But he didn't, instead he kept it vague, not directly saying who he was talking about. So, definitely eyebrow-rising.

Then we get to the last part of the answer: "It's a storyline that I really liked doing and I think fans will be happy with in the fifth season". Knowing that the question was initially about Mike and El's relationship, I'll admit it would be a bit weird for Finn to say that fans would be happy with this relationship ending (even though we know most will). But there's also the possibility that he's talking about the whole Mike storyline of season 5, which includes the love triangle, and Mike eventually ending up with Will. If that's what he's thinking of here, it makes perfect sense to say that the people who identify with a relationship between outsiders will be happy with the resolution of this storyline, especially when we know that Finn is aware of how big the Byler fanbase is (I'm referring to his comment at the Paris Con). But we have no way of knowing for sure what he's talking about here, and he could still be talking about Mike and El, although I personally don't believe he is, mainly because of his use of "people".

So, my conclusion is: it's not exactly a clear win for us, but it's definitely a loss for M*leven, since Finn is still incapable of talking about their love and always has to shift the focus away from them, saying vague stuff and basically word soups instead. It's night and day compared to how Caleb talks about Lumax and how unconditional and forever their love is. I've seen this since the season 4 promo, every time Finn has to answer a M*leven question he searches his words and stutters and starts being super vague, it's so different from how he answers other questions. I also remember he already said the "relationships with people" thing during the season 4 press tour, it was basically: "Mike learns a lot about how he sees himself and his relationships with people", and we ended up getting a love triangle between Mike, El and Will. So I guess it's safe to say that the love triangle is continuing in season 5 (not that we needed confirmation).

Ultimately I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't rely on interviews because actors can say anything and lie and they have to come up with something on the spot that they may regret later when they think about it. Interviews should never be used as a way to prove or confirm something about a future season, instead it should be a fun little thing to analyze!

[itslikesearcingforsomething]

elephant in the room

now if we’re being serious, what is about to happen with stranger things is incredibly important for queer people all around the world in our reality today. i’m not comparing it to legal actions but representation is extremely significant and sometimes even more than reforms, because being queer legally doesn’t equal being socially acceptable. with that, i’d like to make my point clear, stranger things has the opportunity to make a real impact on current state of society.

i don’t say anything about actors here, because it’s not what my blog is about, but i would betray my own beliefs and appear hypocritical if i won’t mention one issue, actor that plays the most important character in this context being a zionist, that makes a lot of people hard to relate and feel for will byers, wich is valid. we’re people and we feel conflicted about most things in life, especially when it comes to politics, everything is political. i know that majority of our byler fandom supports this actor, i don’t. i won’t discuss this, but read the rest, it’s not my main point.

with that being said, stranger things just ended filming. no matter what we think, writers already did the thing. honest to heart, i’m really anxious. i’m stressed out thinking how did they handle everything? how did they make a choice, what kind of? ten years of hard work and millions of viewers, the stakes are high. i feel like stranger things in s5 will do a lot of tip toeing around, slowly getting GA warmer and warmer for the big “plot” wich is byler endgame. they have a lot of work and pressure, it leaves me wondering how good they did. they have to make will byers very likeable, so everyone can empathise with him, root for him. they have to make mike’s subtle internal conflict (for byler audience it’s clear) really well written and direct at the same time. they have to make mileven break up right, without damaging characters of eleven, will and mike. it’s hard, it’s scary. i don’t think any show this big did something like that. the power that we have now in our lack of knowledge of what will be in season five is huge. let’s cherish this calm before the storm.

[strangelysilver]

But Mike liked El in the first two seasons at leaast

I think there’s definitely an argument to be made for a Mike who liked El initially, but I’m personally a Mike-always-loved-Will truther. Now, if you want a full analysis as to why, there’s many in depth analyses by other Bylers that are way more detailed than what I’m about to say (check out lesbianmindflayer on YouTube, there’s a good one there, or just google some Tumblr analyses).

With that being said, there are a few things that I think make a compelling narrative that Mike has always loved Will, and that he may not even be attracted to girls at all.

First off, my favorite reason: El and Will are said to look very similar, especially through Season 1 and 2 (but even in later seasons!); El is also often mistaken for a little boy. So it’s interesting that El is the only girl that Mike been shown to be interested in— for example, when Dustin and Lucas are excited about Max, he’s clearly not.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that Mike and El’s relationship became a lot more rocky in Season 3 and 4, where El starts looking more feminine. Also, at the start of Season 4, El is deliberately dressed similarly to Will. Here’s a good photo of what I mean.

I think it’s interesting that Mike has only ever seemed to show interest in one girl, and it’s a girl who looks like his (male) best friend— and as she starts to look more and more traditionally feminine, their romantic relationship struggles.

The other thing that I immediately think about when considering Mike’s sexuality is the scene at the end of Season 3, where El tells Mike that she loves him and then kisses him. And Mike’s eyes are open.

(Yes, I know they made out a lot at the beginning of the season. However, it’s framed in a very teenage-romance-esque manner— they don’t have any meaningful conversations and just kiss until El dumps him later in the season. Also, may I remind you that the writers chose to have Hopper call it “unhealthy”?)

Anyways, I wasn’t even a Byler when I watched this scene, but it solidified the grave of my perception of Mileven. Mike was not into that kiss. His girlfriend is forgiving him and telling him that she loves him right before she’s about to leave for the California, and he’s so clearly not into it.

Now, for more personal and speculative reasons. For the first three seasons I wasn’t a Byler, but I didn’t like Mileven because it felt awkward and poorly written— I felt like they had barely built it up before it happened, and I felt like their relationship was pretty shallow compared to Mike and Will’s. For example:

Initially, Mike didn’t want El around and only kept her to find Will.

El disappears and Mike feels terrible, calling her every day… but in a way that parallels Nancy’s guilt over Barbara; he never goes out to look for her the way that he does for Will. He never even has the same kind of desperation.

In the same season, that act of calling El every day is quickly overshadowed by Mike spending all of his onscreen time with Will once his mindflayer crisis starts. Sure, the audience is told that Mike is calling for El at night at the beginning of the season, but after that? The audience pretty much only sees him protecting Will and comforting Will.

Before Mike dances with El and they kiss, there’s a scene where Mike encourages Will to dance with a random girl and then looks sad about it, right next to Dustin who is sad about Lucas and Max. Why was this scene shot if not for a parallel?

This one has been analyzed to hell and back, but Mike’s breakup with El is so much more lighthearted and childish than Mike’s friendship “breakup” with Will. Plus, Mike whines about his breakup with El and how it’s not his fault, but he bikes across town in the rain to apologize to Will.

Mike’s actions often feel performative with El, like in season 3 where the two of them run off to go make out instead of hanging out with their friends. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only other time that a couple has been shown to prioritize making out over friends is, well, Stancy.

Similarly, Mike’s airport outfit (that Argyle immediately calls bullshit on) is another example of him “performing” what he thinks he should be with El. In fact, both of them seem unable to easily express the conflicts they’ve been having in their relationship. This is one thing as a standalone issue, but it’s another thing entirely when Mileven’s communication issues are juxtaposed with Byler’s genuine conversations.

There are more moments that compare Will and El, but I think there’s one more major narrative choice that really points to a “he loved Will all along” conclusion, and it’s this:

Stranger Things started with Will disappearing, and Mike going after him. Will has always been Mike’s first priority, because they were written that way from the beginning.

[theymightbeclerics]

Season 5 Countdown with Byler evidence ★ :

Day 3: “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”

Why this is evidence:

- Will was only pointing out how Mike had been a bad friend by spending all his time with his girlfriend, Mike was the one who turned it on Will jealousy/sexuality wise

- This comment comes off very defensive (“my fault”) , like Will pointing out his abnormal behaviour is a very personal attack so an argument can be made for Mike projecting here

- We’re supposed to sympathise with Will and the audience is forced to scrutinise Mike for his behaviour

- Mike used to defend Will against bullies and now his character has drastically shifted, the lack of explanation for this leaves questions to be answered

- It shows just how much Mike has pushed Will away, especially compared to season 2, when the only change between then and now is Mike having a girlfriend

- Will not liking girls in season 3 is not brought to too much attention from Mike’s perspective, so it comes off as random and it almost shocks the audience how much Mike has been paying attention to this

[lunabug2004]

This may be a reach bc you could claim this is due to the gaining of acting experience over the years but I wanna talk about

The Difference Between the "Cool." "Cool." Scenes w/ s1!Mileven & s4!Byler

Every time I rewatch s1 I think of this and I've finally decided to make a post about it. Especially bc this is a parallel between the two ships.

To me, there is a clear difference between Mileven's "Cool." "Cool." in s1e3 and Byler's in s4e3. I made this video just showing the two back to back to make it easier to discuss them. It's important to watch it because I think the tone of voice is really important here.

First, Mileven's exchange. This happens right at the end of a conversation where Mike explains to Eleven that he was/is getting bullied at school. Therefore, when she says she understands and does not proceed to laugh at or make fun of him, Mike is surprised. His "Cool" is presented more as a prompt for a reaffirmation that El will not leave him because of this information. Then when she repeats back to him it's her response to his happiness at this thought. Her tone of voice is much more soft compared to Mike's (this is important for later). When Mike looks at her after this, again, he just seems to be looking at her with nice surprise or excitement like "oh that's nice! I'm not losing my new friend!" This whole exchange can easily be read as platonic, with both of them just happy to have a friend who understands. Nothing discussed can be read as romantic in any way. They're talking about bullying of all things. They make very short eye contact during the actual exchange. I've said before that Mike doesn't actually seem to show any signs of liking El romantically until Lucas brings it up, and I actually never really saw this scene as romantic either; it's just the two of them bonding. The show, however, does set up the scene as romantic because of Lucas's comment earlier on in the episode. The audience is almost forced to make that connection.

Ultimately, this scene reads as platonic when out of context but is set up as and really only seems romantic because of the show putting the idea in the audience's head just a few scenes before.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, Byler. This exchange happens right after Mike apologizes to Will for his behavior after he arrived in Cali, expresses how much he has missed him, and that he wants the two of them to be a team from that point forward. Now, this is already a much more loaded conversation than the one Mike and El had before. Mike is put in a venerable position in both, but in this one, he is not reaffirming something that has been previously said, he is simply waiting to see how Will will react. Notice that Mike is not the one to say the first "cool"; he was waiting to see if Will would accept his apology (borderline love confession). When Will does just that, Mike is extremely happy, and he repeats Will's response in the exact same way; they're on the exact same page. It feels like a reciprocation of feelings for both of them. This exchange feels extremely flirty, due to both the tone of voice from both boys being very soft and gentle, as well as the topic of conversation. Expressing how much you've missed someone and long to be a partnership team with them again is an extremely personal thing to do. Byler's conversation is about deep feelings between two humans rather than a conversation about just a difficult topic, like bullying. It's also a different type of venerability from Mike. One we've only really seen him reach with Will. They also never really break eye contact. Nothing in the show before this point makes the audience think this scene should be romantic in any way. Only those who had picked up on Will's feelings for Mike would have reason to think this way. The audience is generally unaware, though, so why did so many people find romance in this scene? Because the show knows what it's doing. It shows and it does not tell.

Ultimately, this scene reads as romantic when out of context but is set up as and really only seems platonic when going off of what the show has shown us up to this point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TLDR: Mileven's exchange can very easily be read as platonic, but is "supposed" to be romantic based on the what the show has shown the audience. Byler's exchange can very easily be read as romantic, but is "supposed" to be platonic based on what the show has shown the audience.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Okay, I'm not gonna lie -- I felt really out of my element making this post. I have not made an analysis post in an extremely long time, and I don't feel that I articulated my thoughts very well at all. Please feel free to add your own thoughts to this, and just tell me what you think! Is there even a case here? It's also very possible that I'm seeing the scenes through very biased eyes, so let me know if you agree or not! Anyways, if you read all this, you're a real one cuz even I got lost writing it.

Btw if someone else wants to talk about this or to explain things better than me please go ahead! You also have my permission to use the video if you want.

Byler endgame!

[sirvinkunt]

I always find it weird how compared byler and mileven are within the show. This is especially seen in season 4, whenever something happens in one relationship it tends to happen in the other.

For example when will and mike fought at rink o mania it was directly followed by a fight between mike and eleven. But then there's a comparison between the two relationships and their reactions to the fight the next day as Mike "apologizes" to both of them, but it's seen that the apology doesn't really work out for mileven, but it works out for byler. When mike apologizes to eleven it is followed with even more conflict, the relationship is SUPPOSED to be seen as on the edge in the moment, and then it compares directly after when mike apologizes to will. When he talks to will they actually talk it out and it leads to a better and much smoother conclusion. These scenes a compare the relationship, giving both conflict, but then two different resolutions, putting them right next to each other puts it into perspective for the GA.

Or maybe I'm just crazy, this means nothing, and I'm digging for answers that aren't there.

[dumbkitsune]

MILEVEN ENDGAME =

Absolutely nothing impacful happens

Will, who is the main character of S5 gets heartbroken for no good reason. After all the things he has been through he would get hurt once again, which would make no sense.

Mike turns out to be just an asshole, as simple as that and he is forced to be in a relationship with someone he doesnt truly love

Eleven being with someone who doesnt deserve her and doesnt treat her how she wants. She would also lose the chance of being independant, something she desperately needs.

Basically Will's, Mike's and El's charcter development goes to shit

Probably the worst queerbaiting in history

Wouldnt make sense if we follow the plot of season five

BYLER ENDGAME =

The slowburn of childhood friends to lovers is finally coming to the end it deserves

It would be incredibly meaningful and important to queer people

It would show that gay couples in media dont always have to end up awfully or simply work as a side couple

It actually makes sense inside the S5 plot

Will, a gay kid in the 80's that suffered multiple abuses all his life and had to go through unspeakable things that traumatized him, is going to get the boy he loves and for once he would win something. It wouldnt make sense to make him suffer more, especially when it comes to something as silly (compared to the shit that goes down in ST) as falling in love.

Mike is not actually an asshole and it turns out to be one of the best written characters in all the media. Idc queer or not, he is an incredibly complex character that will show people how deep his feeling actually are. It would make most sense for the menssage itself of ST to be a closeted kid in the 80s with internalized homophobia.

El gets to be independant and would get out of a relationship that only made her gain bad expreriences as a couple with Mike. She gets to explore herself and start to be who she actually is without needing anyones aproval.

[love-byers]

one of the things that makes me so confident in byler is the sheer amount of byler scenes compared to mlvn. and ESPECIALLY the final byler scene

we get like 2 solo mlvn scenes

their fight in el's room

and their talk at surfer boy's pizza

now let's count byler:

rink o mania fight

talk in jonathan's room

talk in will's room

talk on top of the car

talk in the van

talk in the cabin

SIX. COMPARED TO TWO

the last big scene/interaction we see of a character/couple in a season is super important and says a lot about what's to come

like at the end of s1, the last interaction we see nancy have is kissing jonathan on the cheek and going back to steve. she ends the season with steve. HEAVILY foreshadowing that the story is not over between them and there is more to come, there will be a big plot point related to nancy and steve in s2.

in s2 the couples are together by the end, like literally together.

lumax are dancing, mlvn are dancing, nancy and jonathan are both volunteering at the snowball, and hopper and joyce are hugging.

and the last solo interaction we see dustin have is with steve, implying their friendship will continue and be important in what's to come, which it did in s3. 

it's the same at the end of s3. the last 4 solo interactions we see are will and mike, jonathan and nancy, el and mike, and el and joyce. 3 couples, and then the moment that begins hop's letter. all very important.

in s4 we get a solo jancy interaction, a solo byler interaction, and a solo el+ hopper interaction. the final scenes. the jancy scene isn't exactly happy, they're awkward and jonathan is still lying to her about college.

so in the same episode that mike confesses his supposed love to el, the last time we see them in the same room she doesn't even spare him a glance? the final time we see a couple together is important. and they give us nothing. not only do we not know if they're together anymore, it's making us lean towards them not being together at all.

then there's this:

in s2, jonathan and nancy take a big leap from friends to lovers. HUGE leap. but after that, it's not acknowledged at all. things continue as normal. i remember watching 2 for the first time and getting a teensy bit worried that no one was talking about it and more drama would happen.

but then we get that last look, and we know without a sliver of doubt that they are officially together, and in love.

this is more proof that the final scene together between a duo is very important. imagine if they hadn't give us that jancy moment, we would've been so confused and upset. we'd think they were together, i mean they legit smashed....but then they don't acknowledge each other? that would've implied trouble.

it's slightly different for mileven because mikes monolgue wasn't their leap from friends to lovers, it was supposed to be their leap from childish, puppy love to real love.

but it WASNT

after the monologue, we don't see them speak. and this may have been okay if they'd done something. something to let us know they're still together in love.

with jancy, we did see them have moments before the snow ball scene, like nancy comforting jonathan and jonathan seeking out her comfort (a hug) when he saw will unconscious. but the last scene was still so important. they didn't leave us with nothing

with mlvn, we aren't left with nothing, we're left with less than nothing. we get to see them in the same room, and el doesn't even spare him a glance. she even seems annoyed by mike. it leaves mileven unanswered.

the jancy snowball scene is living breathing proof that the writers know how to leave 0 doubt surrounding a couple. they know it doesn't take much. all it would've take. was one look, one smile, to let us know mlvn are okay. and they chose not to.

not only did they choose to have el not acknowledge mike, they chose to have his last scene be with will.

let me repeat that. after mike confessed his supposed undying love for his girlfriend, his last solo scene with another character, the last we'll see of him for years until s5 is him with will, the person who's in love with him.

and it's intimate. it's mike reassuring will during a moment of fear and weakness that they'll kill vecna and save hawkins, putting a comforting hand on his shoulder as sunlight cascades down on them.

and the final scene of s4 reinforces everything i've said.

this has always given me the vibe of, 'there'll be petty arguments, drama, little crushes and lies, but when the world is ending, who do you grab despite all of it?'

jonathan and nancy grab each other. joyce and hopper grab each other. mike and will grab each other.

once again i want you to imagine you confessed your supposed love to your girlfriend, and then a week later the apocalypse starts. wouldn't you go to her?? stand by her??

mike didn't. he stuck with will. because mlvn just aren't that kind of relationship. but byler is that kind of relationship.