#manosphere

[former-incel]

TW: Rape, Racism, Murder

When the manosphere try to recruit new members, a common tactic they use is promoting fear of men being falsely accused of rape.

And if you're an autistic man, it's very easy to agree with them. You've likely been falsely accused of so many things for your entire life. Maybe someone spread a rumor and an authority figure just believed it without question. Maybe an authority figure assumed you were lying because of your tone, facial expressions, or body language. Maybe an authority figure interpreted things you said and did in the worst possible ways and you didn't even have a chance to explain otherwise. Maybe you were accused of arguing whenever you asked for clarification. Maybe you were labeled as a creep for missing a social cue that you would have easily corrected if it was explained to you.

And after a lifetime of trauma from being punished when you did nothing to deserve it, when men complain about false rape accusations, it's very easy to be able to feel their pain.

But pay attention to what those men are saying. Are they complaining about corruption in the criminal justice system as a whole, or are they complaining about false accusations of specifically rape? Do they prioritize false accusations by people with power against people who are powerless and othered, or do they prioritize false accusations by women against men? If the goal is to uphold the presumption of innocence, there's no reason to specifically focus on rape nor to assume men as a whole are the target. Think about all the times you were falsely accused of something and an authority figure believed them or was the one making the accusation. None of those false accusations were because you're a man.

It also makes no sense to blame feminism for false accusations. A famous historical false accusation was Emmett Till being murdered after being falsely accused of harassing Carolyn Bryant. This was in 1955, only 35 years after women could even vote, before the equal pay act existed, before women could have bank accounts, and at a time when it was legal for a man to rape his wife. Feminism clearly wasn't what allowed the false accusation to happen. Emmett Till was considered "other" by a racist society. That's what allowed him to be falsely accused. If women were to suddenly shut up and stop advocating for an end to abuse of women, false accusations against those considered "other" would still happen easily.

Think about how many people are in Alligator Alcatraz who did nothing wrong. Think about how many people are murdered by police because they "fit a description". Think about how many people have been arrested only for resisting arrest. Think about how many people are in jail because cops planted evidence on them. There's no reason for you to be able to look the other way when that happens but rape is what suddenly makes you afraid of false accusations. If you have a problem with false accusations, you can direct your anger at the criminal justice system as a whole. You'll have plenty of people agreeing with you.

Also, it's okay to doubt a rape accusation if there's actually a good reason to doubt it. Maybe the alleged victim has a history of spreading rumors and this is very similar to other rumors she has spread. Maybe there are parts of the story that just don't add up and she's said each of those parts multiple times to the point that she can't just be misphrasing it. But a man who has a double-digit number of alleged victims is probably not being falsely accused. A woman who's gaining nothing from making the accusation is probably not falsely accusing.

[testo-alphas]

When the alpha demands worship, the beta is drawn instinctively to the bicep peak

[shamebats]

Do you ever think about how a single misguided study on wolves in captivity has resulted in both the most widespread toxic pseudoscientific theory in the manosphere and what is arguably the weirdest genre of graphic kinky gay fanfiction and depending on who you are and what you've seen you'll hear the word Alpha and either think of the platonic ideal of a cis het man or one feral mediocre middle aged actor's dick knot impregnating another's slick-drenched hole. Isn't the internet a wondrous place.

[cornyonmains]

So, I finally got around to watching Adolescence on Netflix and now I see why the manosphere is in full on damage control mode. This show did its research and did SO MANY things right because of it.

Firstly, they didn't have Jamie cartoonishly espousing his beliefs like a cartoon supervillain, because they did their research, and knew these boys are being carefully taught by the adults in the manosphere to hide their power level. They showed the full reality of what Jamie had become under the tutelage of the manosphere by letting their teachings silently guide his actions.

Second, they almost completely removed Katie from the conversation. That was so important because men would have jumped all over that to devalue the messaging by calling it another piece of feminist trash centered around women. Men were center stage in this, portrayed in respectful honesty, flaws and all.

Jamie's dad was legitimately an alright dude, but he had his family walking on eggshells with those tantrums of his, and I imagine the truth of that was such an uncomfortable but necessary glimpse in the mirror for men. My brother has never laid hands on a woman in his life either, but he has that same inability to emotionally regulate when he gets angry, and I think it was important for men to see what it looks like for the people around them to deal with. By centering the male experience in an honest way, in making a piece of media men might not completely dismiss outright, they get to see what they look from the point of a spectator's view, and that's so goddamned important.

Third, they left a lot of stuff about the Red Pill confusing and vague. This is going to spur parents to do more research, which is so fucking necessary, and it's going to keep the manosphere from saying, "Well, this and this and this is completely misconstrued." This is important because if we want legislation passed to protect young people from the Manosphere, we need to focus on the long term damage over time done to the psyche, on the actual damage they're doing to young boys, rather than focus on criticizing rhetoric they've got meticulously built dialog trees to defend. We need to build a case that the Manosphere is full of predators absolutely breaking the psyches of young boys for money.

Something I need people to understand is the Manosphere would crumble without adolescent views. If any of them go to meet-ups, you can see pictures with their fans, and they're just awash in a sea of tween and teen boys. It's fucking horrifying. We would do damage this pipeline would never recover from if we remove their access to children.

[luna-drinker]

The red pill community needs to read the Bible. When Abrahams wife was old and infertile God didn't say "ya bro just find a new wife" in fact he scolds Abraham for being unfaithful. King David's affair with Bathsheba resulted in his dynastys downfall. Joseph was told by God to be a father to a son that wasn't biologically his. So I don't want to hear "as a man I deserve a young hot wife" or "women have expiration dates" or whatever. READ THE BOOK!!!!

[girlfishes]

Have y’all noticed how the misogyny of young men is treated as the effects of some internet trend called the “manosphere”.

As if the misogyny of these men is somehow unique. As if their fathers and grandfathers didn’t hold exactly the same opinions when they were teens and probably still do.

There is a perception that young men are backsliding from their previously held progressive values, but I think that young men were never progressive or feminist in the first place, even over the last ten years. They pretended to have those values so they could consider themselves good people, but as soon as large internet personalities showed them that misogyny is still considered acceptable all they had to do was remove the mask.

I’m not saying that men aren’t being radicalized online, but I think that researchers overstate this to the point that they forget that our society is still deeply misogynistic even without the internet.

[flamedoesart]

i feel like shows like Adolescence do a good job of showing how no man is born being a horrible misogynist. even Andrew Tate, for as much as I despise and loathe him, didn't start off as the cruel, abusive bastard we know him as.

it's the cycle of patriarchal violence that embeds itself into young boy's minds, and fills them with hate. and most of the time, esp in our modern era, parents have no way of understanding because they didn't grow up with the internet, and thus have no awareness of ppl like Andrew Tate who are feeding their boys this type of red-pilled poison.

this isn't to absolve anyone of blame, because ultimately the choice to commit violence falls on the person doing it. but hopefully Adolescence can teach parents to be more mindful of what their kids are watching, bc that type of shit is manipulative and disgusting.

it's rat poison disguised as candy. and candy is addictive.

[self-winding]

I've heard some takes that far right/manosphere/redpill/anti-SJ spaces are attractive to young men because they treat them more kindly than leftist SJ-spaces typically do, and other takes that, no, actually, those spaces aren't kind at all, they are just as toxic and rife with bullying as a lot of leftist/SJ spaces, if not more so. And I think both of these things are partly true but also beside the point.

How kind and welcoming a community is really depends on the sub-community you're talking about. But I don't think those spaces are attractive to men because they're "kinder," exactly, but because they provide a narrative which helps them make sense of the world (and in which they are the protagonists) and, in some cases, concrete advice about how to get what they want, whether that's sex, status, a more meaningful and fulfilling life, whatever. Whether that advice actually works is another question.

Leftist spaces are often unkind to men, yes, but they are frequently not kind even for the women and marginalized people they are allegedly made for; there's no shortage of infighting, weaponized callouts, policing of members' language, etc. But people keep gravitating to them for the same reasons that some men gravitate to anti-SJ spaces.

Human beings in general are very susceptible to narratives that promise to give them answers about, "this is why your life sucks, this is why you don't have power or status or control over your situation, this is why you have always been haunted by the feeling that something is wrong. It's not you, it's Society."

No matter who they are messaging to, communities that message in this way are always going to be more seductive than communities which tell you, "Actually, the problem is you, the problem is that you're too entitled, even if you feel powerless the problem is actually that you have too much power, you should just stop wanting whatever it is you want and instead try to derive your sense of purpose by helping these people over here."

It's hard to talk about what the solution is because I think this is part of the broader problem of ever-increasing polarization fueled by the Machine that feeds us ragebait and validation of all our worst fears because anger and fear is profitable. Unless we actively push back against it, we are all pushed into ever more specialized communities tailored to our own ethics and worldview. I can give an old person take like "the solution is for everyone to spend less time online and go to big neighborhood parties where we all grill together" but this doesn't strike me as realistic.

[lucemferto]

This feud is already producing gold.

[talistheintrovert]

the male loneliness crisis vs invisible labour

[former-incel]

There are two main groups of incels.

One group is the Leaders. Hating women is their identity. They are confident in their hatred of women and know how to carefully phrase their hatred of women in order to get other men to listen. This group includes Andrew Tate. These men theoretically could be autistic but probably less likely than the general population. To these men, the only thing women are good for is sex. They don't even want women to like them. They want to go back to the "good old days" when men could be completely unlikable to women and still get laid because women needed them. Being "friendzoned" is considered a failure. Being flirted with in a way that doesn't lead to sex is considered "being led on". Pickup artists are also included in this group. They object to the suggestion to "hire a hooker" because they believe that women should already be happily serving men without being paid for it.

The other group is the Followers. They have legitimate struggles that they deserve to be angry about but are tricked into directing that anger at women. This group included me when I was a teenager, and in the most extreme case includes Elliot Rodger. These men are very often autistic. They want women to genuinely like them (well, at least they do at first), but struggle to be liked because of a disability or trauma from being bullied. These men will often say that they want sex even though what they want isn't specifically limited to sex, but it likely includes sex and they were likely taught that sex is what they’re supposed to be pursuing. They would benefit from having women as friends and from flirting that doesn't lead to sex, but their struggles in social situations cause them to struggle with that also, not just with getting laid. They often trust pickup artists because they need advice that treats socializing like a science and that acknowledges that it's much harder than just "talk to people", and pickup artists are often the only people who provide that kind of advice. Like the Leaders, they also object to the suggestion to "hire a hooker", but for a different reason. Hiring a hooker would not help them accurately read signs of interest, help them stand up for themself while also acknowledging the needs of others, or help them overcome any of the other reasons why they struggle to form connections with women. Hiring a hooker would only cause them to have sex once then keep craving it while still being just as lost and confused as before. Followers trust the Leaders even though the Leaders do jack shit for them and are only using them to further their hatred of women.

[shamebats]

Independent journalist Vera Papisova talks about her experiences dating right-wing men for a magazine feature.

[transparentkittenheart]

I feel like raising a son in this current political climate would be like disarming a bomb.

[luna-drinker]

Me when the dudes with a porn addiction try to lecture me about traditional women's roles, the Bible, and the dangers of the "Jezebel Spirit"

[greenapplespider]

Incel Love: 1 (inspired by real conversations I’ve had with sad broken people)

Short series about a radfem and a mgtow type who fall in love and become normal

Part 2

[theconcealedweapon]

If you're a man who's frequently bullied, rejected, or mistreated, it's very easy to be sucked into the manosphere. That's especially true if it's because of a condition you're unaware of (for example, if you're neurodivergent and undiagnosed).

When someone from the manosphere complains about society mistreating men or about the "male loneliness epidemic", it's very easy to think you relate to them. If you don't know that you're neurodivergent and that that's what people are mistreating you for, it's very easy to be propagandized into believing that it's because you're a man.

When you encounter pickup artists who claim to have the tricks for how to attract women, it's very easy to trust them because they're often the only people who treat socializing like a science instead of the usual oversimplified "talk to people" that everyone else has told you.

If you've been labeled as a creep for accidentally missing a social cue and you watch openly misogynistic men have no trouble getting women to like them, it's very easy to fall for the "women like jerks and hate nice guys" or "women only complain about harassment when it's from someone they consider unattractive" propaganda.

If you overcompensate for your social struggles by becoming a people pleaser and going out of your way to do favors for others and they start taking advantage of you, it's very easy to fall for the "women take advantage of you if you're too nice" propaganda.

But it's not women as a whole who are doing this, and it's not men as a whole who it's done to. If you stop and think about all the times you've been mistreated, you'll realize that men have mistreated you just as much. And there are plenty of times when women are treated the same way you are.

Men who complain about the "male loneliness epidemic" may seem like your allies, but they're only using it as an excuse to hate women. If you opened up about your struggles in a way that didn't blame women, these men would gladly berate you.