#pine yaps
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I got an ask about semantics, that Dean is often branded ātoxicā and that it tends to be overused. Semantics isnāt my strong point, so i thought Iād come to a Dean historian. :)
Do you think this is overused for Dean?
I find itās a much more interesting conversation when we describe his behavior for what it actually isāwhether heās being stubborn, dismissive, hostile, or even emotionally guarded. I think some of the specific ways he copesāthrough joking, deflection, self-sacrifice, breaking objects, or pushing people awayāare very human.
I think it was @ilarual that pointed out that Supernatural isnāt a Saturday family drama⦠it canāt be divorced from its religious horror fantasy roots. The charactersā strugglesāwhether emotional breakdowns, crises of faith, or cycles of self-destructionāarenāt just personal; theyāre heavy with cosmic forces, biblical themes, and the weight of fate itself.
Anyway, itās hard for me not to see ātoxicā as a copout word. (Forgive me for dumping on you.)
Hi Shal! I'm so honored to get two asks from you!! I was carrying them around in my head all week though I didn't have time to answer :(
I'm trying to gather my thoughts about this. Because, yes, I agree that calling Dean "toxic" is a) not accurate and b) a cop-out for analysis. And I certainly agree that that word is overused by deancrits particularly.
I think I'm probably not grasping the full weight and meaning of ilarual's point but from what I'm getting, I think that's a really important element to how dean (and sam and cas and jack etc) act and how we evaluate their actions. The stakes are always so damn high for all of them.
Stepping back for a moment, when reading fic I'm often a little frustrated if Dean is characterized the way he is in canon but most of the contexts that have made him behave, react, be that way are removed. Because in some of those instances, I think some of his behavior reads as pretty ungrounded from reality and maybe more into the kinds of patterns which coalesce into toxicity. (I mean I also think fanon makes people lean into these kinds of characterizations of dean - disaster bisexual, repressed and biphobic, and various other things which are incomprehensible to me)
But in canon, I tend to personally struggle to define any of TFW et al as "toxic." I recall a conversation I had with a friend after watching Lucifer Rising where she was critical of Dean for yelling at Cas when he was trying to break Cas free of Heaven's plans to bring on the Apocalypse. She said he was being mean. I remember feeling so confused - surely if the stakes are the whole entire world, you are well within your rights to raise your voice?
I think all of TFW has moments of being not particularly kind or good communicators or steamrolling each other's emotions or various other things which are kinda yucky interpersonally. But it's pretty much always because the stakes are so fucking high; the world is in peril; there isn't time to have a conversation; they are dealing with catastrophic grief while also having to do crisis management. Most of the conflict in spn happens when the characters are going through what, for most people, would hopefully be the worst day of their lives. And for our boys that happens again... and again...
I am not saying all of this to say we can't call out specific instances of them not being very kind to each other - Sam strangling Dean, Dean aiming a gun at Sam, Cas beating Dean up in an alley, Dean beating Cas up in s10 etc etc. And I also think it's important to talk about the ways these kind of moments constitute or break from their common behavioral patterns - or don't. Eg in your post about Amara and 15.15, you pointed out that betraying and forcibly sacrificing someone who isn't really a direct threat and is learning and growing is not in line with Dean's usual morals - a break from a pattern. And people often point out Cas' pattern for trying to problem solve solo. (These are just examples and by no means comprehensive!)
All this is to say that I actually think that if they all ever got to be in safe, calm world, got some space and time, they all really really do have values around talking things out (we see this again and again) and listening to the differences in how they feel or want to handle situations. Sam and Dean alone have a staggering amount of conversations at the end of episodes where they had conflict. Dean and Cas have multiple on-screen conversations about what caused tension between them and many off-screen conversations which are alluded to. I don't think any of them are perfect communicators. I think they all have various amounts of introspective capacity and effort at various times. They all have some well-worn and not all that healthy emotional go-tos because of the traumatic lives they have all lead - which would take time and safety to unlearn, unpack, and change.
I know your question was about Dean but there's not much I really have to say about Dean which doesn't apply to the others. I am specifically a die-hard Deangirl(gn) but this logic is what would keep me from making a long post about how Sam or Cas are Toxic(tm) even when I'm seeing them exhibit a specific behavior pattern which is annoying to me.
But the last thing I'll say is much more Dean specific and that is that Dean is sort of always just supposed to absorb and roll with everyone else's opinions and analysis and choices and not react with his true or full emotions or else he gets these labels thrown at him. This reminds me of a time I saw a Casgirl(gn) claim it was okay for Cas to beat Dean up in 5.18 because he was really mad at Dean... ? Or what we were talking about a week ago with the Mia Vallens therapy where Sam's frustration and hurt and anger are listened to and validated - including him lashing out at Dean - and the grief and frustration and cornering that Dean is feeling are somehow not supposed to affect the way he's acting? I'm certainly not the first to point this pattern out by any means but I do think that that's a big contributing factor in labeling Dean toxic while having explanations, exceptions, and excuses for the others.
Lastly, you are never dumping on me though I fear this reply is at risk of being a dump <3 I also don't even know if I really answered your question...
Oh wait, one more thing. I think the way fandom can be so focused on looking for the Victim(tm) and the Abuser(tm) means that, especially in many moments in spn, they are utterly missing that one of the inherent consequences of whichever godawful shit the characters are facing is that their beliefs about how to handle it will be in tension. And that's gonna suck for everyone. But it's actually no one's fault that they're arguing or disagreeing about how to handle it.
#dean studies#pine yaps#sorry there aren't more citations in this. i just felt like there was too much in my head....
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"I feel like there isn't enough subtext in this scene"
and it's Elwood Kirchhoff and c!Athena making small talk. Like wtf do I want them to do? These are the two most straightforward characters ever.
There is no subtext. Elwood wants to know how Athena started working at the Weird Gay Hotel, and Athena is super willing to talk about how they came to work at the Weird Gay Hotel. There is no reason why they cannot have an easy and straightforward exchange of information. And I love that about them.
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Phew, was about time to revamp the masterpost a bit! I couldn't stand my green+purple look anymore. Had a lot of fun playing with Arthur's drawing and included some in the headers eheh
#update#pine yaps#the things wasn't updated since... I prefer not thinking about it LOL#sometimes I feel like a blog is just like your house in the end#you have to grab the vacuum and clean it up once in a while
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this is stupid but why are they wearing the same outfit. like that's the exact same outfit right? down to the elbow patches. how did this happen. did fiddleford take half his wardrobe in the divorce
#gravity falls#fiddleford mcgucket#ford pines#stanford pines#fiddauthor#ford²#silly rambles#don't take this seriously im just yapping
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Gravity Falls but Billās āi like Mabel cuz sheās an agent of chaosā opinion is actually correct
aka a drawing of my au that has been living in my brain rent free for the past several months
#i donāt even have a name for this au yet#i just call it the āchaotic neutral mabel auā#cuz imma be honest i donāt think mabel could ever be āchaotic evilā#at least not her canon version#to my defense i always sucked at naming#gf#gravity falls#gravity falls au#mabel pines#MY ART WOO#the henchmaniacs in the background look so sillyā¦. i couldnāt bother to draw them better im sorry#okay iām not sorry#except for pyronica; iām actually sorry i didnāt spend more time drawing her#forgive me god for i have sinned (not drawn pyronica pretty enough) </3#i donāt think this trick will work with my minimal amount of followers but if anyone is interested i could yap about this au for hours#despite the fact that its kinda unfinished lol#chaotic-neutral Mabel au
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So how did that couples therapy go?
It was a rough start for sure...
Shes... doing her best ļ¼Ī£( ̄ā” ̄;)
1/2/3
#charecterart#art#fanart#bill cipher#bill cipher gravity falls#billford#book of bill#gravity falls#gravity falls stanford#stanford pines#dipper pines#mabel pines#ford pines#stanley pines#bill#the book of bill#artists on tumblr#illustration#comics#short comic#gravity falls memes#gravity falls fandom#gf#gfalls#gravity falls ford#bizzerkworks#bizzerk yapping
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sometimes babygirl is a grown-ass man who may or may not have committed several war crimes AND THATS OKAY.
#emi yaps#keith kogane#takashi shirogane#barty crouch junior#sirius black#draco malfoy#harry potter#damon salvatore#stanford pines#bill cipher#stanley pines#percy jackson#severus snape#crowley#anthony j crowley#crowley supernatural#dean winchester#castiel#luke castellan#sam winchester#bucky barnes#steve rogers#alastor#pebble ramshackle#eddie munson#regulus black#lance mcclain#william t sherman#jon snow
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i'm still obsessed with these two instances, knowing that stan's words end up haunting ford for ages but us never getting to seeing his actual reaction because ford cuts himself off from the scene right before....
also ford quietly staying behind the vending machine to eavesdrop on his family right after declaring that he has to be alone
#always yapping about the likelihood of him staging the cycloptopus fight..... craving a chance to be with his family so bad....#also 'trust no one' being paired with stan oughhhh#ford pines#stanford pines#stan pines#stanley pines
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was recently rewatching this scene and⦠god the way ford looks at him hereā¦

itās this level of softness we donāt really see on him a lot in his next few episodes, especially when heās interacting with stan. like yeah, in a moment here heāll tell stan he needs to get out of his house by the end of the summer, but its like heās giving himself a second to really take in the sight of his brother. itās been 30 years. heās seeing him again for the first time in decades, theyāve both grown and aged without each other. ford just told stan he looks like their dad and heās watching as stan denies it and laughs and elbows him like the old days, and for a moment ford just looks at him. with this gentleness. he forgets to be mad just to soak in the reality that heās here again. with stan.
itās shortlived obviously. and his grudge kicks in a minute later as the extra reality that his house has been transformed into a tourist trap and his identity has been stolen sets in. but that small moment :( ugh how much he mustāve missed him :( it kills me :((
#cubes yapping#hey whats up im picking apart tiny freeze-frames again#they love each other your honor :(((#gravity falls#stanley pines#stan pines#grunkle stan#stanford pines#ford pines#stan and ford#stangst#stan twins
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Do we ever talk about how Stanley aged? And I don't mean in a "haha younger twin look older" kinda way, but just how much he ran himself into the ground?
Imagine what Ford was thinking once he got a good look at Stanley. Without the judgement or bitterness, without the haze. REALLY looked at him. His sunken eyes, his thinning and greying hair, the layer of chub that has accumulated on his torso and arms. The amount of scars and marks he had earned.
The realization of just how much Stanley neglected himself in favor of him. Neglected himself in favor of the kids, of the business, of everything.
Maybe even the realization of how HE would have looked, if Stanley didn't swoop in all those years ago. How HE would look if he had to fight sleep at night and work his ass off during the day like he planned. The realization that Stanley took all that burden, and he'd do it again for him in a heartbeat.
#gravity falls#ford pines#stanley pines#stan pines#stanford pines#talkin#just thinking#thinking out loud#fr i feel bad for stan my dude#yapping
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PINES FAMILY HOLIDAY POSTING YAYY HOW JOLLY
#meant to post this yesterday#forgot#so itās technically the 26th now#but itās chill!!!#we ball#gravity falls#fanart#ford pines#stan pines#mabel pines#dipper pines#pines family#christmas#hunakkah#YAYYYYYY JOLLY POSTING#also was gonna post those whiteboard doodles tomorrow#and then i forgot i was gonna do that#and posted them today#so double whammy post today hooray everyone cheers#iāve yapped too much URHH
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you're one of the few gay dean truthers i trust because you are also very much a "he's not repressed he's closeted" truther (which is just personally not an interpretation i vibe with)
soooo many gay dean truthers (not you) want him to be unaware of his attraction to men until like. Late Late seasons, and it's really hard with me to agree with those takes because i think he figured it out For Sure in season 4-5 at the earliest and season 8 at the latest, if he wasn't already aware of his attraction pre-series. so thank u for being a dean is closeted truther and a gay dean truther.
NBHDKILJEDBHKEJ sorry if this is a weird ask
hi anon! this is so interesting to me! i'm still piecing together some of the difference between spn twt and tumblr cultures.... all my gay dean twitter (rip) besties were arguing in the trenches for closeted but not repressed dean!
i haven't seen much from repressed til late seasons dean gay dean people - but i believe you that they're out there and prolly more prevalent!!
but yeah that's crazy given that he has on purpose, intentionally, consciously, on camera tried to test the waters / shoot his shot with multiple men by like season 4...
i mean i guess it goes along with the people who for some reason think he's oblivious about all his feelings and thoughts and desires or something... despite the reams of evidence that he is acutely aware of each tiny needle of his feelings and every prick of the impossibility of his desires and he's constantly trying to move through the world without becoming a pincushion of open wounds.
i personally kinda think he might have taken a bit to figure out he's gay not bi (for a complicated set of reasons that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the fact that that was my sexuality experience and i see some similarities there!!! haahahahha)
but yeah i very much think he's aware of his attraction to men from like before the pilot... from like before lee... from like...
anyway not a weird ask at all!!! i actually love talking about dean so much so
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crazy? I was crazy once
They put me in a rat
The rooms with rooms
I'm rubber
crazy? I make crazy.
I'm crazy in a room
a rat rubber
rubber rubber
rat room
I'm crazy.
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it mcgucket monday (da WHOLE family hereā¼ļø)
#ive had the post canon fiddauthor brainworms recently if u couldnt tell#post canon fiddauthor is literally so epic they get to lay on their super cozy comfy rich people bed in mcguckets mansion#and it cures all their chronic pain they almost definitely have and its awesome and they get to be gay together and ouughhgš¢š¢ššš#im normal about them smiles#traditional sketches at the bottom are from like a month or two ago lol i kept forgetting to post them so theyre going here#also stepdad ford real#i dont think ford would be very good at being a dad but i think hed try his best#ok yap session over#gravity falls#fiddauthor#fiddleauthor#fiddleford hadron mcgucket#fiddleford mcgucket#fiddleford#mcgucket monday#old man mcgucket#stanford pines#ford pines#stanford filbrick pines#grunkle ford#tate mcgucket#tater mcgucket#trans ford pines#trans fiddleford
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AGAIN!!!!!!!
#gravity falls#the book of bill#book of bill#stanley pines#grunkle stan#ITāS STAN SATURDAY!!!!#SHUT YOUR YAPS!!!!!!!#it wonāt give you rashes I repeat it will not give you rashes#it gave you rashes#alex hirsch
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idk if this was actually āintendedā or not (who rlly cares) but i do love the fact that stan lies about his age.
his vague birth year, āiām pushing seventy and i still eat ice cream for dinner,ā itās all such a performance and its so him.
like we KNOW you are not almost 70. your twin JUST got back from the multiverse and he is clearly in his early sixties š just by nature of the birth range HE TOLD US stan canāt be almost 70. like ššš
ofc itās sad tho too bc likeā¦why does he feel the need to do that? to constantly undersell and self-deprecate? to compensate for some perceived inadequacy?
because the authentic version of himself has never been good enough, because he feels like heās not worthy of the genuine connection he craves.
#thereās something to be said abt physical fitness too#stan is always known for his strength#maybe he does feel insecure about it reducing as he ages esp bc of his hard lifestyle#so he kind of gives himself a buffer. says heās older so people donāt see how hard life has been on his body#stan pines#gravity falls#stanley pines#ford pines#stanford pines#my yapping
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