#pro endgame steve

[velvet4510]

Here’s my rebuttal to the common Avengers: Endgame compliant that “Steve would never settle down with Peggy in the 40s while knowing Bucky was being tortured by HYDRA at that time.”

Who says he didn’t save Bucky??

Steve knew that time-traveling to reunite with Peggy would create an alternate timeline and not affect the reality he’d been living in. All we see of his branched timeline is a moment where he danced with Peggy. How are we supposed to assume exactly how his life unfolded, when all we see of it is thirty seconds of them dancing one day? There is no evidence to support the notion that he didn’t tell Peggy about HYDRA and they didn’t rescue Bucky, before or after the dance.

[sersi]

Steve Rogers + Rogers: The Musical ↳ Spotify Template

[dolche-tejada]

So I wanted to point out the usual nonsenses coming from Tony Stark antis and luckily enough, one of them made a post quoting pretty much most of their popular "arguments" (if I can refer to them as such), so let's take a look at this user’s main points and see how solid they are.

"Let's talk about the horrible shit Tony has done in the MCU"

Please keep in mind the "horrible shit" term all along during your reading.

"MCU Tony has mortared a city full of civilians"

Okay so first point and it literally never happened. USA's government did that to Wanda and Pietro's town, not Tony so I hope it wasn't too painful to pull this nonsense out of your ass.

"Been a complete dick to all of his teammates"

Oh no... he was mean to Steve and his coworkers during their first movie ? What a complete tragedy, what a heartless monster. Please stop the violins, otherwise I might weep.

"Made multiple misogynistic comments about women mainly Natasha (looking at you prima nocta scene)"

Okay so you gave only one example to back this up and it's when he was obviously joking with his friends. Even if that joke may be in very bad taste, that doesn't make him a horrible person like you tried to demonstrate, you're just nitpicking.

"Manipulated a 16 year old into getting into a war with his former teammates"

A) "a war" please don't make me laugh. For most of the only fight Peter take part in, both sides were joking with the other while fighting and weren't even fighting seriously, they were just trying to incapacitate each other. Things only get messy after Tony ordered Peter to step back.

B) Tony didn't manipulate shit. He hid no vital informations to Peter and while bringing a 16 year old to an arrest was indeed a stupid decision, he knew Steve wouldn't harm him and that Peter was strong, competent and equipped enough to deal with him.

"Thought he was completely justified for trying to kill Bucky for something Bucky did unwillingly cuz he was fucking brainwashed"

Why the fuck are you lying ? At no point Tony justified himself for this. He tried during the whole Civil War plot to ease things with Steve and this even after his best friend got disabled for life because Steve escalated the situation at the airport, only to learn then that his friend lied to him all along about his parents' death.

At this point Tony just didn't care anymore and while he was obviously wrong for trying to kill Bucky, it's not like he had no understandable reasons to go after him. Brainwashed or not, most people would try to obliterate their parents' murderer if he stood right in front of them.

"Repeatedly mocked Bruce Banner who was filled with self loathing and even tried to kill himself because of how much he hated being The Hulk"

Firstly he joked with him, not about him. Secondly, Tony was the only one who respected Bruce from the start and never treated him like some ticking bomb ready to explode.

"Created most of the villains in the MCU (Mysterio and Co., Vulture, Aldrich Killian, The Maximoff Twins, Justin Hammer, The Flag-Smashers etc)"

Okay, where do I even begin on that.

Quentin Beck was a narcissistic asshole who got mad because his boss called his invention "B.A.R.F", that and Tony tossing it aside because this tech was way too expansive for its very limited applications. So not Tony's fault if Beck had an ego more fragile than a soap bubble.

Hammer tried to destroy Tony's image and Stark Industries first, so Tony defended himself by revealing he crippled a man by trying to replicate his tech. Hammer fucked around and found out, not Tony's fault if he's an hypocritical idiot.

Concerning the Flag Smashers, the reason they became terrorists wasn't caused by Tony bringing back half of the universe, it was due to the Global Repatriation Council's disastrous resources management.

About Toomes, Tony had no prior knowledge of the contract he signed with NY and even if he did, leaving dangerous alien tech in the hands of random people is quite a moronic idea, as evidenced by what they did with this tech for years. Not Tony's fault if Toomes is delusional and sucks at his job.

Aldrich Killian ? Be fucking real, he became a super-villain just because Tony ignored him, an archetypal greasy-haired nerd who literally drools as he talks, for a pretty chick on New Year's Eve.

Like obviously, when a serial killer stab someone to death, the most logical reaction is to blame those who assemble knives at the factory rather than the murderer himself, makes perfect sense to me.

The Maximoff Twins, my god this argument again... Yeah let's blame the guy who designed and sold weapons to his government rather than, oh I don't know, the fucking guys who used them against civilians ??

"Which also means he's also had some hand in the deaths caused by all these characters"

Literally none of the characters you quoted became super-villains because of him.

"Created Ultron"

He intended to create a security system against other alien invasions and it resulted in a genocidal robot, which only happened because Wanda mindraped him some hours before. Tony is responsible for Ultron's creation, Wanda for what he became.

And I don't want to see anybody whining in my mentions that he already planned to design Ultron prior to her mindraping him, not when she had this fucking grin after seeing Tony taking the Mind Stone with him.

Let alone when she threw this line, later in the movie : I saw Stark’s fear. I knew it would control him, make him self destruct.

She knew letting him take the Stone would cause something awful that might also kill him and she used her powers to make him even more paranoid. She's responsible for Ultron going from "A suit of armor around the world" to "Genocidal Murder Bot", not Tony.

"Thought it was a good idea to have a newly created AI be exposed to The Mind Stone which caused Ultron to kill JARVIS and go rogue

A) Which again wouldn't have happened if Wanda hadn't mindraped him the same day.

B) He didn't consciously exposed Ultron to it, the Mind Stone corrupted the AI on its own, something Tony and Bruce had no way to predict.

C) Still not his fault anyway. Ultron is sentient, he takes his own decisions. Tony being his "father" doesn't change anything to this state of fact.

"Profited off of war by making weapons of mass destruction and selling them"

Something he's spent over a decade to make amend for, notably by closing his weapons division and dedicating his life and resources to helping people and saving the world.

"Bought illegally obtained vibranium stolen directly from Wakanda by Klaue"

False too. All we know is that they met each other at the time Tony was still designing weapons ; and that Klaue told him he was looking for something new. At no point was it implied Tony illegally bought vibranium from him.

"Technically responsible for more vibranium being stolen from Wakanda by Klaue due to Ultron"

This vibranium was already stolen by Klaue when Ultron met him.

"Being responsible for everyone who died in Sokovia's death because he made Ultron"

So following your reasoning, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer's parents are responsible for every murder their son committed from his own free-will ? Did I get that right ?

"Being unwilling to help Steve and the others fix the Blip cuz muh daughter"

My god, how dare he... being against playing with time and rather trying to accept what happened while taking care of his family.

And this when we know screwing up with time can cause world-ending events.

Truly a proof of how horrible of a human being he is, indeed.

Btw I like how you ignored that Tony changed his mind and helped them afterwards.

"Supported The Sokovia Accords which need I remind you all Tony is technically responsible for The Accords being made because A. he's the one who killed Wanda's parents (blah blah blah, a lot of false attributions later...) causing her to kill Crossbones and a building full of people"

Still isn't him who dropped those mortar shells on her house. Just like it's not him who pushed Crossbones to go suicide-bombers, wrote the Sokovia Accords and incited 119 countries to sign them.

"and B. he is literally responsible for what happened to Sokovia BECAUSE HE MADE ULTRON"

Already answered to this shit, let's continue.

"Referring to Wanda as "a weapon of mass destruction" in Civil War"

Lmao because she isn't ? No one forced Wanda to join a terrorist organization, pal. Just like no one pushed her to act as a weapon of mass destruction, by using her powers to send Hulk on a rampage across Johannesburg or by enslaving Westview.

"meanwhile HE is the REASON SHE has her powers in the first place"

Sure, Tony whispered in her ear every night to go serve as a guinea pig for Nazis in order to get her revenge on him. I forgot this part of Wanda's backstory, silly me.

"Falsely imprisoning the heroes that didn't sign The Accords because he's a cunt"

Tony don't have any power or authority to imprison people, and the heroes he stopped got incarcerated because they indeed broke the law, you jackass.

"Being technically responsible for all the deaths caused by Wanda in Wandavision and DSATMOM because if he didn't kill her parents with his mortar..."

I don't think you know what "technically" means.

"then her and Pietro wouldn't have went to Hydra thus not getting their powers from The Mind Stone"

You know what would have actually prevented all the deaths Wanda caused ? Her not willingly joining Nazis to get her powers and going on a murder spree.

"And you are probably thinking "But he sacrificed himself at the end of Endgame !""

To save the whole universe indeed. That and quite a few other things, such as :

Outright refusing to help terrorists and getting tortured as a result.

Risking his life to save Yinsen.

Saving Afghans villagers from terrorists.

Saving Pepper and SHIELD's agents from Obadiah Stane.

Actively saving people on a daily basis, and this for a decade.

Developing a shit ton of armors to protect people more efficiently.

Saving New York and the world overall from Chitauris.

Stopping Killian from taking over the USA.

Curing Pepper from the Extremis treatment.

Designing Veronica with Bruce.

Fighting Hulk to protect Johannesburg.

Saving the world once again, alongside the Avengers.

Awarding promising students with the funds to develop their own projects and inventions.

Granting his tech to Peter and designing for him two suits that allowed him to save many lives.

Saving Stephen's life from Ebony Maw.

Helping the Avengers to travel in other timelines.

"Let me ask you this : If Strange had hold Tony that the only way to defeat Thanos is if Tony sacrificed himself would Tony do it"

It's literally what happened during Endgame, you fucking bozo. What do you think was the meaning of this scene ?

And it's not like it was something new, he was always ready to die for others' sake, right from the start, did you even watched the first Avengers movie ?

No wait, even better : Have you at least watched the beginning of his first solo movie ?

I wasn't expecting anything from Tony antis but sucking that hard at watching a movie is quite impressive ngl.

"Bottom line is MCU Wanda sucks and Tony Stark sucks"

Yeah no shit, that's pretty easy to say when you're making up lies to support your hate boner.

So in conclusion, this dude has no idea of what he's talking about and neither does Tony antis in general for using these bs as arguments.

[swarnim29]

[marisol-peony]

“Steve going back to the past erases Peggy’s autonomy/choice/life.” Or, it gives Peggy another option where she can choose to live a life with the person she loved who literally came back from the dead?!? Like I’m sorry Peggy Carter will never do anything she doesn’t want because of a man, and Steve would always support her and her decision. She chose to be with Steve.

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

El doesn't really speak very well, and it's very possible that it might be because of trauma. So when hoh Steve Harrington, who signs, teaches her how to sign herself, suddenly she loves to speak with her hands. Mike immediately goes to Steve and asks him to teach him how to sign. He surprises El with it, one day, by signing he loves her.

[vuiyearc]

How can people think that Steve giving Tony his cell phone to contact him is an "insult" and then blame Steve for not being there when Tony needed him BUT DIDN'T CALL HIM?

Steve, even after fighting with Tony and Tony trying to kill Bucky, still gave him a cell phone so that Tony could contact him if needed. And this was extremely intelligent and responsible from Steve's side.

FUCKING THANOS WOULD GO TO EARTH TO KILL EVERYONE and Tony didn't call Steve because of a childish tantrum.

Later Thanos went to Wakanda to get the missing gem. Steve took a punch and passed out and when he woke up everyone was literally turning to dust. He passed, along with Natasha and others, 5 years helping and supporting civilians who lost loved ones and suffered because of Thanos' snap. The first thing Tony does when he sees him is blame Steve for not being there. As far as I know Steve is not a telepath, then where is the narrative saying that Tony is also not right and that it was his responsibility to call Steve himself? It was for no fucking place, because Steve didn't even have the opportunity to tell or explain what he was doing because Tony dramatically took the arc reactor out of his chest and almost died.

"Poor Tony, Steve is really heartless" is what they want you to think even though it's not Steve's fault, he was hardly ever wrong most of the time when he was arguing or sharing the scene with Tony.

[youngbugandtonystank]

https://x.com/Vaughanilla_/status/1890044236449685567

Okay... Why are you sending me this?

People hating on irondad in 2025... WE ARE SO BACK lol

Twitter bros and sisters who say Tony manipulated Peter into the fight in CW are completely misreading the situation and ignoring the context of their relationship

First of all, Tony did not create Spiderman. When Tony met Peter, Peter was ALREADY out there fighting crime on his own, risking his life with a homemade suit THAT HE CREATED HIMSELF. He didn’t need manipulation to be a hero, he already was one. Tony didnt ruin Peters life at all, Peter was gonna be a hero whether Tony liked it or not, he was stopping carjackers, robbers and helping civilians long before Tony ever approached him. SHIELD or another hero would have eventually discovered Peters abilities and probably treated him worse. Imagine if Fury found Peter first, he would've treated him like a disposable soldier at least Tony gave Peter protection, mentorship and guidance... just because its not the hero you like doesnt mean that wouldnt be the case

them: 'tony was so manipulative! poor kid! making him fight in CW!'

also them: 'Omg spiderman should've been on Cap's side!!''

So are you angry that Peter was there fighting in Berlin or mad because he was on Tony's side? lol

The only reason Tony found him was because Peter was already putting himself in danger. Let's not pretend Tony didnt say 'you need an upgrade, THIS IS WHY I'M HERE FOR' he knew everything about this kid and wanted to help him.

If anything Tony was more protective than manipulative. He brought Peter in but also made sure he stayed on the sidelines during the fight. Peter wasnt tasked with taking down any of the bigger threats, his main job was to contain people. Tony told him to stay back and web people up. Tony thought of team cap as FAMILY back then and those are AVENGERS people who are supposed to protect the earth, he didnt bring Peter to fight in a HYDRA facility. Peter was fully aware that he was fighting THE AVENGERS

Look at what Cap did:

(not my edit)

And look at what he did to Sharon Carter lol PEGGY'S niece

Tony set more boundaries for Peter than any other adult:

Steve dropped a multi-ton jetway onto Peter in CW and then left him there, he didn't need to do that and if you think Steve would've stopped for Peter instead of Bucky, you're severely mistaken. Again, look at what he did to Sharon.

Talos under Furys instructions had SHIELD send a 16 year old to fight gigantic elementals, threats they themselves couldnt handle, rather than calling more experienced heroes. He manipulated Peter into fighting and got mad when the kid CRIED when told he wasnt living up to expectations of people more experienced than him.

Strange teleported Peter onto the battlefield in Endgame forcing him into the fight against Thanos, an experience that was even more traumatic.

May pressured Peter into helping the multiversal villains in NWH, even after he told her it wasnt his responsibility and was beyond his control. Peter BLAMES himself for her death.

Tony is literally the only one who actively tried to limit Peters involvement in dangerous situation, he:

Saved the kid in IW after he got himself involved, sent Peter back and wanted him out of the fight.

After the fight in CW when Peter gets hurt Tony immediately pulls him out and tells him to go home. A truly manipulative person would have disregarded Peters safety but Tony cared.

Stopped him every time he saw things were too much for the kid.

Respected Peters wishes to stay a 'friendly neighborhood spiderman' and let him go.

They're out there fighting tooth and nail the same old ''peter was too young to think for himself and would have sided with Cap' that argument ignores Peters personality, values and agency. The funny part? The same people who complain that MCU Peter lacks agency are the ones stripping it away from him every chance they get. They just don't want to admit peter's own morals align with tony's side, even before Tony entered his life Peter was already operating under his own moral code: 'When you can do the things that I can but you don’t and then the bad things happen... they happen because of you.' That belief system aligns with Tonys stance in CW, heroes need accountability because their actions affect people

If Peter truly believed in Steves cause he wouldnt have joined Tony. Hes said NO to other heroes like Doctor Strange, he basically told Strange NO in all of NWH lol He said NO to Tony in Homecoming when Tony tried to ground him warning him about the Vulture, even after taking the suit. He said NO to joining the Avengers, said NO to Tony in IW. Stop acting like Peter cant say no, this kid defies authority all the time. He said it himself, he was tired of Tony treating him like a kid all the time.

Do you think peter would do what Cap did in CW? Did he do that in NWH? NO. Peter would never have put his personal attachments above doing the right thing. Hes not someone who blindly prioritizes personal loyalty over accountability

Peter with 15 years of living gave up the opportunity to dance with Liz Allan to do the right thing and stop the bad guy, Peter with 17 years of living gave up his entire life and future just to do the right thing in NWH. Meanwhile Steve with centuries of life experience chose to stay in the past and live out his days with Peggy instead of staying in the present to help Bucky heal, support Sam becoming Captain America and continue aiding people after big ass events like the Snap and the Blip. They're not the same.

CONCLUSION!!

Peter is a young hero in a world of adults. This constant theme of adults asking too much of Peter and not recognizing his limitations contributes heavily to the emotional trauma that Peter experiences across the MCU and Tony is actually one of the only people in Peters life who consistently tries to protect his agency and set boundaries for him. The thing that all of these situations have in common is that Peters agency is often stripped away and it paints a picture of a young hero who was constantly thrown into battles without enough consideration for his growth and mental well being and thats a key reason why Peters character arc is so compelling, he is learning not just to be a hero but to navigate the emotional fallout from all the pressure put on him. LEARN how to love other adaptations instead of crying about your fuck ass comic driven desires for the character, THIS IS MCU PETER

You people just follow whatever the most liked tweet says, try thinking for yourself for once

[harrington-love]

Stancy Shipper Check-In

Who’s present? 🙋🏻‍♀️

[miss-carter]

people having to apologize and/or excuse liking steve/steggy/endgame when reblogging a pro steve or pro steggy set just makes me so sad.

[madmileven011]

My stranger things 5 predictions inspired by @milktoast-mileven

1.Mileven rain fight which causes them to open up about their problems and eventually we get the Mileven rain kiss scene.

2.Mileven roof top scene where Mike explains the concept of marriage to El where she tells him she’d like that and he promises that when everything if over they’ll marry.

3.Eddie is revealed to be alive and has become a Kas like vampire vessel under the control of Vecna.

4.Martin Brenner is actually alive and returns to hawkins under a new alias spying on El and the others.

5.Suzie moves to Hawkins becomes apart of the group and is a key to defeating Vecna.

6.Robin and Vickie get together

7.Steve opens up to Nancy about his crush on Barb from season 1 and how he got with Nancy because he didn’t think Barb would ever like him back apologising to her for using her and dividing her and Barb. the Harringland confession brings Stancy closer as friends.

8.Max’s soul is trapped in vecnas mind scape and after Holly gets taken by vecna she guides Holly through surviving.

9.Eddie is saved from the upside down and clears his name and is finally seen as a hero.

10.Barbs body is recovered from the upside down and she gets a proper funerals along with her parents finally getting closure to what happened to her.

11.Will gets into a romance with a boy in his art class and finally moves on from Mike.

12.Jancy do detective work at Hawkins hospital together.

13.The core four and Will finally get scenes together again.

14.Mike gives Will dating advice for his crush on his new love interest.

15.After the roof top scene Mike talks to Will about El where they resolve their weird tension and after that Mike talks to Will about his dream of marrying El and Will smiles at him softly, Mike then asks Will to be his best man and Will hugs him with tears of happiness.

16.The show ends with Mike and Elevens well deserved wedding.

17.Will sacrifices himself because it started and ended with him for Hawkins and especially Mike and Eleven. Mileven are heart broken by his death and in honour of him they name their first son after him.

[velvet4510]

Apparently I’m in the mood for expressing an MCU hot take at this hour, so here goes:

Steve going back in time was NOT a betrayal of his and Bucky’s friendship.

Look, at first glance, I get why Steve’s Endgame ending feels like it’s going against “I’m with you to the end of the line.” Even I had my reservations about it for a while, once my Steggy-shipping heart calmed down from its thrilled palpitations when I first watched the film.

But after giving it a lot of thought, I think in the end, it was for the best that Steve and Bucky went their separate ways, and here’s why.

Once they reunited in the present day, Steve and Bucky’s relationship became extremely codependent, and their entire arc was learning to grow out of that.

We see in Civil War especially how far Steve was willing to go to protect Bucky, and how Bucky became fully dependent on Steve. And remember that Steve had just lost Peggy before finding Bucky again, meaning that Bucky was all he had left of his former 1940s life. The fact that he fought so hard for Bucky is symbolic for his arc, far beyond their friendship. Of course he did it because he loved Bucky, that’s never in doubt. But I also think that he felt an equally strong love for what Bucky represented, which is the life he lost. His clinging to Bucky already showed us that he was unable to truly let go of the 1940s, though he tried. He tried to believe he had let go - Age of Ultron is all about him trying - but Civil War makes it clear that he will never truly belong to the present day.

Same goes for Bucky. Steve was his only reminder of his true self, of who he used to be, of the life he lost. He loved Steve himself, of course, but he also clung to Steve because Steve also represented something beyond just their friendship; he represented the hope for Bucky’s soul. That he was not HYDRA’s monster anymore, that he had a chance of living life as himself again.

The ending of Civil War set the two of them on the path that always inevitably led to what we got from Endgame. Steve and Bucky finally loosened their metaphorical grip on each other; Bucky chose to turn himself over to Wakanda, and Steve let him go. They both acknowledged that Bucky’s need for healing went far beyond Steve. While Steve was his starting point, Steve’s faith the thing that gave him hope for himself, Bucky needed far more work on himself than Steve alone could provide. So they started taking baby steps away from their codependency; Bucky moved to Wakanda and Steve continued with the Avengers. Fans who talk and act as though Steve and Bucky’s lives fully and completely revolve around each other, and each other ONLY, clearly have not actually watched the movies critically.

The narrative always acknowledged that Steve and Bucky’s codependency was not healthy, and that as much as they loved each other, they needed to learn to be their own people, and not be defined only through each other’s eyes.

Which brings us to Endgame. Perhaps the most significant detail about Steve’s final choice is that he canonically told Bucky about it ahead of time. Bucky confirmed this verbally in TFATWS. Steve did NOT return to the 1940s on short notice; he let Bucky know about it. And, on the other side of the same coin, the exact details of this conversation are private. For all we know, Steve could’ve asked Bucky to come with him, to also seize a chance at getting back the life he lost. Steve could’ve ensured that Bucky was alright with this, and if Bucky really wasn’t ready to lose his support, then he wouldn’t go. All of these are very in-character possibilities for Steve, and there is NOTHING whatsover in canon that states that he didn’t say these things.

But what happened? Bucky let him go. Bucky told Steve to go live his dream, to go be with the love of his life. Bucky was alright with it. (Remember Bucky knew from the start how important Peggy was to Steve. He was a first-hand witness to Peggy declaring Steve “the right partner.” He knew what this chance at time travel meant for Steve.) And by letting him go, Bucky chose to stay in the present. Would he have been able to do this in Civil War? No, and that’s because since then, he grew. They grew. They got to a place where the cords of codependency were finally cut, where they both knew they could live their own lives and not rely on each other to keep one another upright. They finally knew what paths they wanted to follow to live their fullest lives, and those paths were not the same one. Steve embraced a future in the past, while Bucky embraced the present moment. In other words, they finally reached “the end of the line.”

Oh, and I find it absolutely hilarious that some people are like “how dare he retire with Peggy while Bucky is out there being tortured in the 40s?” Steve made a branched timeline when he returned to Peggy, meaning no matter what he did from then on, the Sacred Timeline wouldn’t change. And he knew that. And there is not a single piece of text to be found anywhere in canon that tells us that he didn’t immediately tell Peggy that HYDRA was still around and that they didn’t team up, take HYDRA down, and rescue Bucky before New Year’s 1950. So that argument is ridiculous.

Also, did Steve “leave Bucky alone,” as many have said? Uhhh, NO. We see this in TFATWS.

After Steve left, Bucky was not alone. He had Sam, aka a professional counselor. He had tons of friends in Wakanda, and those friendships were close enough that he could successfully request a new suit for Sam on a whim. And Sam told him exactly what he’d been needing to hear for so long: “It doesn’t matter what Steve thought. You gotta stop looking to other people to tell you who you are.”

On top of that, as we see at the end of the show, Bucky now has an entire family: he’s bonding with Sarah (who knows what that might lead to), and he’s another uncle to AJ and Cass, and he’s bringing cake to the cookout and the arm that used to be a killing weapon, he now uses as a plaything for the children to dangle from. The entire community has welcomed him as one of their own.

Steve and Bucky’s story is a beautiful one because it shows how true friends help guide you to where you need to be in life, and their support sets you on the path to being your best and fullest self. The health of Bucky and Steve’s friendship was destroyed by their shared trauma of being taken from their normal lives in the 1940s, and they clung to each other for emotional survival. Then, gradually, they helped each other get back on their own two feet, and when the time came, they learned to let each other go, because they loved each other so much.

In other words, the finale of Endgame was the natural and inevitable endpoint for their story arc. If it ended with them still together, and clinging on to each other, then what would be the point? That would just be character regression for both of them. But instead, the story concludes with both of them finally free from the codependency, leaving only their love for each other, which they will always carry with them.

[aurore-boreal1s]

Hi, again. 👋

I found the post you were talking about. The stan's account was deactivated, but yeesh. 😬 Nice replies to them, btw.

The stan that bashed on me said I was being misogynistic, even though I'm a black woman who just wanted to see another black character get their chance to shine.

Hell, it's not just the shows and movies (I think this all started with Endgame). It's also the Steve Rogers musical too. I don't know if you know about it, but Disney made the musical real, and it really did Sam and Bucky dirty.

Sam isn't even in it. Maybe he was mentioned once, but the musical showed an image of Sam as Captain America. As for Bucky, his scene from CA:TFA, where he saved pre-serum Steve, was given to Peggy instead. Bucky was mentioned once, and the musical tried to justify Steve's ending from Endgame. All for this ship.

And, frankly, I don't hate Peggy, I'm just more annoyed that other characters get shoved aside as well as this great dynamic that Steve and Bucky had, while she and her ship with Steve has been getting propped up more and more. But, seeing some of your and the others' posts, I get why you guys don't like her.

Girl, don’t get me started on the abomination that was Rogers the musical. It could have been glorious, it had so much potential, but once again Bucky’s role in Steve’s story was given to Peggy, and Sam wasn’t even there!

I feel like Marvel feels the need to tone down Stucky or their friendship overall because it was just too powerful. We all remember the hashtag that begged Marvel to make Stucky Canon, #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend. They just couldn’t let it happen, not to a main and important character like Steve, god forbid. And so ever since civil war Stucky has always had little to no scenes together no matter how well established it was in previous projects. All their scenes and dynamic were given to Peggy, their friendship was toned down, Steve’s whole ending happened. It just feels like Stucky is so menacing to Marvel that the only way to stop us is by destroying Steve, Bucky and their relationship.

I mean, Steve is given no justice in his ending and in all the other projects he appeared in. Bucky went from a victim and prisoner of war to someone who must make amends for things that were beyond his control. And the depth of their friendship was toned down and reduced every time Peggy was involved. And then they wonder why many people in the fandom dislike Peggy or why the whole Rogers the musical initiative flopped the second it went beyond Hawkeye.

Like, even if you don’t ship Stucky you can tell that they care for each other, and you can tell there was a shift after people actually wanted Marvel to take action and do something about this dynamic. Steve can’t get even one episode as his own character because Peggy must be there. Bucky had more luck, but still… and let’s not even talk about Sam, his only appearance was as a zombie!

In another post of mine I ranted about how bothered I was that Peggy was inserted in the 1602 storyline, and i haven’t changed my mind. It would have been so nice to give Steve one episode about himself, about his dynamic with his best friend and about the relationship with himself and his fellow avengers. But no, Peggy must be there too, and for no good reason as well.

I feel like Marvel trying to erase pre-existing relationships to have Peggy shine only results in fans turning their back on Marvel and hiding in fanfiction or whatever piece of media that can actually bring justice to the characters. Once someone on Tumblr said “you gave us the characters, but once you mess them up they’re not yours anymore. You don’t understand and respect them, therefore you don’t deserve them.” and I couldn’t agree more, which is why I am currently reading and writing fanfiction rather than buying into everything marvel gives us.

Peggy was the love interest with more screen time even before what if and all that jazz, she had her own show! And I fear that the day Marvel will realize that pushing a reimagined Nazi turned Mary Sue into every single what if episode where she can fit instead of enhancing the characters that are actually relevant in-universe it will be too late.

Sorry about the rant, I get carried away when it’s about my boys lol

[miwiromantics]

I want a scene between the jonstevenance trio where nancy charges forward with a gun in her hand while Steve tries to tell her that it’s too dangerous and that he should go ahead first because it’s dangerous. I want a scene where jonathan stops him and says that she can handle herself, and doesn’t need anyone to protect her, that she knows what she’s doing and can make her own decision. I need the audience to see how both of them perceive her, how both of them understand her and how only one of them is best for her.

I want it

I want it so badly

[swarnim29]

OK guys this is a very very very different take on steve and bucky's relationship but here's what i think-

(ALSO: steve fans dont read this, i've tagged this as anti steve. SO i definitely don't want yall coming at me in the comments, i'm open to a friendly debate but if you think i'm wrong just dont engage at all)

So we know steve rogers as a man out of time, he never really fit into this world right(?) He always used to cling to the past however he could and since he's stubborn as shit he still used to think the world works the same as it did in 1940s. Like we see proof of this in endgame when he literally left everyone to go back to peggy leaving everything aside. ( i don't really hate his ending tho as much as stucky fans do but i get their hate ). He also clings to the people of his past like bucky n peggy. Now, a really really hot take, but steve only protected bucky cause he reminds him of his past. Now before y'all come for me in the comments, i know it sounds wrong but listen to me okay?

Like steve really thinks his old pal bucky is still in there, but actually he's not. I really really think steve doesn't get bucky's trauma, he just isn't ready to accept that he has changed and he's not the same bestfriend anymore. i know that old bucky is still in there but he's buried under years of mental traum. like look at bucky, he has been brainwashed for 75 years, he was not allowed to have his own thoughts, he never had a choice and he was made to kill people, like imagine he's a soldier, he wants to protect people, but he was made to kill people. This is just horrifying. Obviously what bucky needed some great physical and mental help. and not to mention 75 years is a long long time, more than some people's life. And even after the fall of hydra, bucky still was dangerous as he could literally be triggered anytime and kill lots of people unintentionally. ( we see in cacw ) Steve doesn't get all that bucky has been through, he just wants to save him by putting his teammates in raft cell, breaking like 50 laws, defying 117 nations. I just think the reason he was so violently protecting bucky has more to do with his inability to accept the changes rather than his love for bucky. He just wants him "physically safe" anyway he can. There are a million other ways to protect bucky but he literally choose the most violent and who's suffering the consequences, tony stark. Like when we see in cacw, when the german task force was sent to arrest bucky, steve literally was kicking ass of those innocent people, like it is not their fault obviously, they were sent by their superiors. Steve is being all violent and using his shield. Steve literally thought they were gonna kill him when they only arrested him later. Like imagine how many innocent he and bucky hurt, and bucky was not even in mind control then. And steve didnt tell anybody that he was freed from the mind control, so even if you look at from everyone's perspective, they only were trying to stop a dangerous highly skilled assassin with a metal arm. Now we know bucky is innocent obv nothing will ever change that and i love him too but i just think steve hurt a lot of people while trying to protect bucky.

[marisol-peony]

I used to vehemently hate Steve’s ending until like, three months ago. I had wished that the roles for him and Tony were reversed and Steve had sacrificed himself and Tony got to live “the simple life.” But honestly in the six (can’t believe it’s that long damn) years since endgame now I really, really love it.

Because the writers had to remove Steve from the storyline, Chris Evans was done, and the only other way to do that was to kill him off. And I had said for years that it went with his character that he was the one to make the sacrifice play. But the thing is, he already did give up his life.

He went down in the Valkyrie and lost the life he wanted to have, he lost everyone he’d ever known and loved, he lost his home, his world. He lost Bucky and then his own life just weeks/months before VE Day, right before the war ended. Steve gave up his life already, and in every single movie after that he keeps losing.

He founds out the organization he died to end still lives and was torturing his best friend for seven decades. He loses the hope he ever had for the life he used to want to become a full-time Avenger (Steve in AOU kills me, he can’t go home because the war isn’t over and the place he feels most at home is being a soldier). He loses Peggy, one of his only remaining ties with his past, his friendship with Tony and half of the Avengers, the shield, his identity as Captain America, loses Bucky again, and is a fugitive from the government. Then he loses everything and everyone he hadn’t already lost, except for Natasha who is the only one he’s shown to interact with regularly, and then she dies too, and then the friendship he just repaired with Tony is gone because he also dies.

The only people he truly has by the end of Endgame is Sam and Bucky (who also have each other). And he has a chance, the opportunity, to go back and live the life that was stolen from him when he was 26/27—and as a firm believer in alternate timeline that the movie describes happens with time travel and the Russo’s interpretation of his ending—he has the opportunity to save everyone and finally live his life as just Steve Rogers, not Captain America. He can help make a timeline better than his own. Going back to the past doesn’t mean he abandons Bucky, he can’t change what happened to him, but he can give him the comfort that there’s a version of him out there that was never the Winter Solider. He can save Bucky from before Hydra turns him into the Winter Soldier, he can truly destroy Hydra, he can be a good influence for Howard and Tony, he can end the Red Room before it steals Natasha from her family, he can leverage what he’s learned and his influenced for social justice and civil rights. He can still fight for what he believes in but doesn’t have to use the shield, he can have that family and stability he’d always wished for.

There’s a lot of critique for how the ending treats Peggy, but it’s clear in TWS that she still does love/care for him, she’s not a voiceless love interest and, truly, Steve would only travel to a point in her time. Also, do we really think anyone can change Peggy Carter’s mind about what she wants?

He choses to be actually selfish for really the first time in his life. Steve had been fighting constantly since he was born until he was 38/39, and he can pass on the shield to Sam, a person he knows will carry on the legacy of Captain America and forge his own. He leaves the world in good hands. He can finally have that peace and stability that he never had and live it with the friends and people that all had to live theirs without him.

Between him losing everything again and dying, and having a long, good, life where he can make things better, I now love that they finally gave Steve Rogers’ a happy hopeful ending.