#queer discourse i guess

[lesbianjackies]

hold my hand and say it with me: jackie taylor is not a femme

[miitopia-cake]

I wish some aces would stop excluding other aces with complex sexual experiences. like I get why but you have to realize that being ace does not mean they don't enjoy sexual experiences and it's weird when you complain about allo people and boil it down to "people who have sexual experiences" and also shame people for their sex life and kinks as if your own community doesnt INCLUDE those people. because there are other aces out there who still masturbate, who feel sexually attracted to their own body, who barely experiences sexual attraction but still enjoys sex, who like consuming sexual media, who like sfw kink. being ace is so so much more complex than just "disliking sex". and also aromantic exclusionism in the same genre of posts is something i see a lot. especially aro allos. I hate hate hate seeing a community that SHOULD be inclusive boil down sexuality and exclude people.

[imjunebitch]

I'm not going to respond directly to this post bc i blocked the person who made it and don't want to directly interact with them ever but uh saw smth saying that we should stop using the term TERF and just use transmisogynist. and uh... TERFs don't just attack trans women? they kinda famously are bad to all trans people? in different ways but. the fuck do you think you're doing? "i think we should relabel this group that hurts many groups of people to be seen as only hurting my group!" ok haha i disagree

[lenodrysalad]

"Eddie said he's straight! Buck said Eddie was straight! Buck said he's not in love with his best friend! They shut down Buddie in the show it isn't happening ya'll are delusional! Queerbait! Queerbait! Blah blah blah"

I feel like I'm going insane. I'm sure we're all tired of people shouting "media literacy" every five seconds, but like... Yeah, develop some media literacy, please.

I'm saying this as someone who doesn't usually like romance, despite being subjected to it in basically every piece of media. As someone who doesn't generally look for love stories. As someone who loved Buddie but didn't consider any serious possibility of it becoming canon before season 7/8, who refused to believe Buddie was truly happening until I couldn't deny it anymore: this episode is loud.

Please understand how narrative arcs work. How character arcs work. How character development works. How serial broadcast television works. Understand how writing works. Consider context; take the whole episode, the whole season, and the whole series into account instead of treating things like they exist in isolation.

I'm too tired to go through the step-by-step details of the episode to prove why these, "they said it on screen, therefore..." takes are shortsighted and ignorant; plenty of people have done that already.

But that episode, even if we do take it in isolation, is textbook. Do people really take everything characters say at face value? Do people not watch other character's reactions? Listen to what else is being said? Watch what is being shown? Consider the implications? Themes? Narrative devices?

Consider that maybe, just maybe, characters can be unreliable narrators, or believe something to be true only for that belief to change later. These things don't happen in one episode. There's such a thing as set-up, foreshadowing, the starting point of a plot. 911 is a serial drama, therefore it is going to have A) long-form story and character arcs, and B) drama.

Characters are not going to move in straight lines, or talk in therapy speak, or solve every problem in an hour. They are not always going to be right, or self-aware, or truthful, or rational. Direct dialogue does not equate to honest dialogue.

Also, saying, "well in real life, people do this, I do that, their feelings would be this, yadda yadda yadda" means nothing. Your experiences are not universal, and more importantly, this is a work of fiction. Realism is whatever the story says it is; it's going to do whatever creates the most dramatic, interesting, developmentally beneficial, or emotionally satisfying story. Whether you like that story or not is irrelevant to the fact that stories are not going to cater to all your expectations or real-world experiences.

To people pointing to Tim or the actor's interviews as "proof" they're shutting down Buddie: again, please understand how broadcast television works. They are not going to tell us everything that's going to happen before it happens. They are going to play the neutral zone, the "wait and see," the "will they/won't they." They are going to lie. That is television production 101. You can compare what they've said in the past with canon and list all the contradictions, misdirection, and twists you didn't see coming because they didn't spoil it for you. Watch the show. That is the canon.

They're also not catering to fandom--people they already know are devoted to the show, familiar with Buddie, and consistently tuning in. They're introducing the idea of Buddie to the general audience, people who likely haven't considered the possibility before. The GA has to see that Buddie is an option, so the show needs to manifest it as if it's a brand new concept. This episode pulled the pin on that grenade in a very obvious way; the idea that Buck could be in love with Eddie and that Eddie could not be straight has been planted. The next seed will be Eddie's feelings. Now the show needs to water it and let it grow.

One last thing. Been seeing a fair amount of hand-wringing and condescension over people interpreting this episode differently. As if this is some sort of "gotcha" for bad writing, baiting, or people being stupid. Listen, genuine complaints about this show's writing aside, different interpretations or inferences are completely normal. This isn't unique. That is how people interact with stories, through personal biases, experiences, emotions, and expectations. That isn't inherently a bad thing. It's totally fine to have your own views; media is all about interpretation.

However, it is also true that just because you have an interpretation, that doesn't make it true. Not all interpretations are equal in their validity, evidence, or warrants. The show has an intention, it has a story in mind. If you don't see it, sure, that could be a failure of the writing, but it could also very well be a failure of your analysis, especially when the show hasn't finished telling the story. Looking at one thing in isolation and forming your whole conclusion based around that makes for poor critique.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see who's right.

[bookwyrminspiration]

pisses me off when homophobes are like "I think it's wrong, but I believe in loving the sinner!! <3" or whatever. great. you're going to be patronizingly/passively homophobic instead of overtly violently homophobic. still homophobic and I still want nothing to do with you or your "love"

[unholy-boi]

can we kill the anti-polyamory crowd. and the anti-he/him lesbian crowd. Every year there’s another thing to divide queer people against each other . Some of you need to learn the art of not giving a shit about what other people do. are all polyamorous people personally coming to your house and killing your dogs or something? are all he/him lesbians personally setting your house on fire? get the fuck over yourselves like seriously

[primal-leaders-au]

I had the idea the other day of doing one of those cute Pride line-up drawings with the mains ships for the Primal Leaders AU, and spent three days actually committing to it!

Specific flags for everyone under the cut :3c

Maxie: Trans/ Demisexual / Gay

Archie: Gay

May + Brendan + Wally: Polyamorous / Bi

Shelly: Trans / Bi

Courtney: Asexual / Pan / Gender Apathetic

Matt: Pan / Demisexual / Demiromantic

Tabitha: Trans / Bi

Blaise: Gay / Hypersexual

Amber: Bi

Steven: Trans / Bi

Wallace: Gay

Groudon + Kyogre + Rayquaza: Queer

(Swallowtail demi flag designs from here <3)

[kerokasa]

re: the language of queerness in project sekai

i’m specifically using queer here to denote a type of subject-position/relationship to society, rather than any specific identities a character might hold. i don’t think a game like project sekai is particularly interested in ever putting straightforward labels on characters, even though a character like mizuki clearly reads as trans to many players.

which ofc is my entire point… the game communicates a lot of information about mizuki without a lot of direct references to identity, instead using the language of difference as a euphemism for transness/queerness.

an event like “beside unchanging warmth” ultimately points to a trans story without stating anything explicitly, and i think it’s interesting to read it while paying attention to what the word choices are actually doing here.

in flashbacks to elementary school mizuki, the word “weird” (変/hen) is doing so much heavy lifting. it’s a word that inherently calls up a certain kind of relation/power dynamic between what is considered normal vs abnormal. the language is walking this precarious line of saying-not-saying, where nobody actually defines what makes mizuki “weird”; the responsibility is placed on the reader to infer that mizuki wearing frilly/cute (feminine) clothes is seen as transgressive by her classmates.

it feels important that mizuki seems especially hurt by the word “weird” in this flashback, and i think the line delivery supports this as well. contextually, i can’t help but read it as a stand-in for more overtly derogatory language/transphobia, softened and sanitized by replacing anything specific with a comparatively broad adjective like “weird.”

(this raises a lot of interesting questions for me wrt what makes queerness legible in translation / in my experience, anglophone fans are often looking for specific markers of identity when said identities generally originate from a certain class of euroamerican queer culture and academia! which is not to say prsk should or should not be more explicit in depicting trans characters; it’s just another point of discussion)

all this leads me to other instances in which the game draws attention to weirdness/difference — and the reasons i believe both mizuki and rui’s storylines evoke queer coming-of-age plots.

this might be slightly controversial to say, but it’s hard not to draw the connection given their middle school friendship, and how much rui’s background emphasizes the same ideas of weirdness/difference. even their final kizuna rank, which is correctly translated in english to say “i guess we’re both different” (僕達も変わったものだね) returns to that word 変 that upset baby mizuki so much.

i’ve seen some people argue that rui’s backstory should just be read as an indicator of his neurodivergence and well. for what it’s worth, i’m gay and neurodivergent like every other goddamn person on this site and within the context of rui’s arc throughout the game, i think there’s still a very strong argument to be made that mizuki and rui bonded over their shared experience of being queer.

after all, why is mizuki having “weird” taste in clothes taken as unassailable evidence of her transness if rui’s “weird” thinking cannot also be read as queer (or queer and neurodivergent)?

i will note that rui’s insecurities have never centered around an inability to communicate with his classmates (unlike nene, whose arc is VERY much about her becoming comfortable around new people and realizing that they want to be her friends). although other students are afraid of him, rui is a skilled communicator in public and doesn’t appear bothered by social interaction.

rather, rui’s insecurities center on this idea that he is dangerous to the people around him / he expects to be punished for expressions of vulnerability or intimacy.

fan communities nowadays sometimes forget the origins of “queer coding” as a concept in cultural criticism. going back to classically queer coded disney villains, romantic/sexual interest isn’t really a huge part of what makes these characters queer coded. rather, it’s about presentation — stereotypically effeminate mannerisms, ursula’s visual resemblance to drag queens in the little mermaid, vocal inflections that audiences (often subconsciously) associate with gay men in particular.

queer coding is shorthand that tells the audience these characters are sinister, untrustworthy, duplicitous. it’s rooted in a history of homophobic and transphobic rhetoric that paints queer and trans people as insidious, contagious (as in the AIDS epidemic), corrupting and luring innocent straight youth into degenerate queer life.

which brings me back to why i think a queer interpretation of rui’s backstory makes it so much richer and more meaningful. starting in the main story and then really coming to the forefront in wonder halloween, rui has internalized this belief that he is a danger to his peers. that his desire for closeness will always inevitably cross a line and he will end up rejected and alone.

this mirrors a really common, familiar experience of being a closeted gay teenager and the fear of how the people around you would react to your identity. in many cases, people are afraid of coming out because of how their friendships will inevitably be sexualized, or they’ll distance themselves in order to prevent anyone from misinterpreting their relationships and intentions.

personally speaking, i really identify with rui for these reasons, even if the story uses his inventions/directing as the stated reason for his fears. it’s really not until the formation of wxs (and meeting tsukasa specifically, as mizuki and the pandemonium trio have pointed out) that rui begins to feel safe enough to be honest and vulnerable about his desires both on and off the stage.

and it is important that it’s tsukasa in the end! tsukasa flips the script that rui is used to — rui has cut himself off to avoid rejection, but tsukasa is the one who seeks rui out, invites him into the troupe, works for him to stay. tsukasa recognizes something in rui and for the first time, someone isn’t reacting from a place of fear or simply not understanding the scope of rui’s vision, but instead he wants the very thing that rui thinks he needs to suppress. it’s also significant that tsukasa is another boy, and it’s significant that the idea of “weirdness” comes back in the form of “oddball 1-2”, which reframes difference as something that connects rui and tsukasa as a unit. he is no longer alone because he’s too weird, but now that same weirdness brings him closer to another person.

i also think it’s so fascinating how mizuki and rui bond over their shared difference or “loneliness,” and the game presents it as these 2 people who really have nothing in common besides their loneliness — i think mizuki says something along the lines of being happy that rui has found people that can relate to him outside of simply being lonely. it reminds me of my own experience being closeted in high school and somehow drifting into spaces with other kids who eventually came out as queer/trans, and how we were each on our own parallel journeys without ever really talking about it with one another, or how gay/lesbian communities in small towns are often very close out of necessity (unlike in big cities, where gay/lesbian communities don’t overlap as much because they don’t need to). it’s as if rui and mizuki have a shared understanding that even if the other’s particular experience is inaccessible to them, they have to be each other’s support system.

all this is to say. mizuki’s story only really makes sense to me as a trans story. similarly, rui’s story is so much richer when read in a queer context. nobody has to agree with me and i don’t really care about the game’s ultimate intent, but i just wanted to articulate how i personally find a lot of value in interpreting these characters in this way.

[badasscoffeemug]

my general policy is to Not screenshot others’ posts just to talk about them because all it does is create unnecessary drama. that being said. i’m so sorry but this showed up on my for you and it’s just so funny to me. what do you mean “queer coding in tommys character that doesn’t exist”. he gets called gay in his very first episode.

[dykeanarchist]

I love queer subtext as much as the next guy and I recognize that genuine queer subtext written by queer people is a time honored tradition, and I have nothing but love for all the queer artists and writers who over the years fought tooth and nail to get anything even a little fruity in shows and comics: ie Rebecca sugar with adventure time or Lucas Gabreel in high school musical.

That being said. It’s 2025 and the fact that Disney is still so incredibly dedicated to making movies as straight as possible is wild, mostly for money and brand safety ig.

Idk I just don’t want to conflate the two things. Like not every non canon gay ship is a soulless queerbaiting cash grab, and not every marvel movie is a genuine attempt at queer art made earnestly by queer people. I fear people don’t know the difference or how to tell which is which

[buckleyreid]

I wanna talk about Byler and some of the reasons why I think they'll be endgame. I didn't mean for this to be so long but the only way for me to organize my thoughts is to write them down so alas. I was also gonna leave this in the drafts since I'm not active in the ST fandom but what the hell, here it is anyway.

For context, I’ve always been a casual watcher and, until 3 months ago, I didn’t even ship it because I wasn’t paying attention to the california storyline when I first watched S4 so I kinda thought they were one of those mlm ships that don’t have much canon to back them up.

Then I actually payed attention to their scenes in S4 and like ?? it’s so obvious ??

When I started rooting for Byler, before coming into fandom spaces, it felt so clear that they were working towards them getting together in S5, there was no doubt in my mind. Will could very well just have been gay without having Mike as the object of his affection and yet here we are. We finished S4 with them promising to stick together.

I think things only start getting a little murky and doubt perhaps creeps in because people start overthinking things, and queerbait has been such a problem in entertainment.

I was never a fan of Mike and El as a couple, I thought they were usually at their weakest character wise when they were paired up, Mike in particular kinda loses his purpose imo and he’s just kinda… there? Also, they mostly get separate arcs during the seasons so we don't see them grow and learn things together like we do for other couples (Lucas and Max, Joyce and Hopper, Nancy and Jonathan). S1 they're together but they're not a couple until the end, S2 they were apart, S3 they were in the same group but broken up, S4 mostly apart again.

The stronger argument for Mike and El being the endgame is that they have spent most of the show being a couple. I even think the question of why they’d spend time building them up just to separate them in the last season is a valid one, but how I see it is that they have actually been spending S4 tearing them down, showing us why they don't work and how they simply don't understand each other.

Mike's "I love you" to El should have been a major defining moment for their relationship, it should've eased the tension and yet, their end of the season is her pretty much closing a door in his and Will's faces. If they were going to fix their relationship they would’ve given that last Byler scene to Mike and El and we would’ve seen her confide in him about how much it hurt to lose a battle for the first time. Instead, we have Mike comforting and reassuring Will that they'll succeed together.

All of this is a long winded way to say that, as someone who doesn't care to try and pick up on the little hints and "proof" that Byler will get together (or even believes in someone of that), I totally think they'll be endgame simply due to Will being in love with Mike, since that would be absolutely unnecessary if it's not the groundwork for something else.

[boyquiet]

i think that we need to get over the narrative that you can’t have gay villains because that’s a harmful stereotype because there’s a huge difference between “this character is gay and a bad person” and “this character was written specifically to equate being gay and being evil/depraved/degenerate”. it’s just such a narrow minded view of fiction that leads to people afraid to write queer characters as anything less than morally perfect and then to a bunch of palatable but bland and boring queer characters that are arguably worse representation than a gay villain because they are not allowed to do anything wrong. while it is important to write all types of gay characters a work isn’t instantly “problematic” because the villain is queer and the hero isn’t. I think this is also related to the idea of subtext vs text in gay media and how I see a lot of people get mad bc the homoerotic subtext isn’t made canon without considering the context of it at all—sometimes creators make artistic decisions for reasons other than that they didn’t want the gay people to kiss because they’re homophobic. well written queer subtext can be better than a canon gay couple with no personality or relevance and a queer villain can be a better queer character than a gay hero because the characters in-universe morality isn’t inherently tied to how much care they are written with and the quality of “queer representation” isn’t determined by the amount of times they kiss on screen.

[fiona-fififi]

The number of people who think that every representation of queer sexuality has to intimately tie a specific sexuality label deeply to an individual's identity is kind of disheartening to me.

"This representation of Buck is biphobic because he's not constantly stressing over what this new discovery means about his identity."

Well. Okay. Listen. Some of us don't feel that deep tie between our sexuality and our identity. When I realized I was bi, I realized two things: I like women, too, and I'm not particularly concerned about the gender identity of my partners. It wasn't some epic realization that I agonized over trying to understand myself. I wouldn't even necessarily call it part of my identity. Yes, being bisexual is part of who I am and there are all kinds of layers to that, but it doesn't inform all parts of me. I am not a sexuality-first kind of person when it comes to identity. Bisexuality is just a small piece of me that largely feels inconsequential to the larger makeup of who I am.

I love the way Buck has been portrayed because of this very thing. Because so often, the stories I see told are about young adults agonizing over what their queer identities mean and how they can define themselves and how this new understanding of their sexuality fundamentally changes who they are. And that's important, absolutely.

But it feels really nice to see a character just realize, embrace it, and continue to exist with this new piece of themself.

For Buck, I don't see his sexuality as something he would go on a research spiral over. Because it just is. Yeah, there will be moments where a new feeling takes him off guard, but I don't see Buck as a character who would struggle with the label or feel the need to seek out a new community or what have you. He very much feels like a character for whom liking men, too, would just make sense, and then be part of him.

And I understand why not everyone likes that. But it makes me sad to see so many people insisting that this portrayal of Buck is actually biphobic because they're not letting him deal with his sexuality the "right" way.

Because the way Buck is dealing with his sexuality is very much exactly representative of my own experience, which I don't think I've ever seen before in media.

So seeing that constantly attacked just feels like, once again, I'm being told that my experience is not a valid way to experience my sexuality and that I don't really have a place in the queer community.

And that just makes me sad.

[adhbabey]

Im so sad the queer community is always so divided. It's the lesbophobia, then it's the biphobia, then it's the bi/pan discourse when yall are supposed to be both mspec. Then it's the aphobia, like man, how many do we have to say it? It's still queer even if you don't like anybody. And then it's the transphobia, drop the T? Really?? Then, it's inter-trans discourse like transmedicalism, transmisogyny, transandrophobia/transmisandry, all of those are equally bad!!! They really are!!! And then you get to folks like me, who have to deal with enbyphobia/exorsexism, like buddy, pal, there's no right or wrong way do to gender, there really isn't and you better shut the fuck up already. AND THEN THERE'S EVEN MORE!!! Intersexism!!! Intersex isn't inherently queer, but for many, it is very queer!! And for people to go on and say that doesn't matter is incredibly appalling. Intersex people are having it really bad right now, and nobody is willing to listen!!

So, let's stop. Let's stop alllllllll of this. Queer discourse is ALWAYS stupid!! There are even things I did not mention here. There's no wrong way to be, so SUCK IT UP!!! And be more fucking accepting. HOLY SHIT.

[heygirltimeformorning]

do I want Buddie to be canon? sure. but not at the cost of their characterization. listen, shipping is fun and fandom is fun and I see everything that everyone else is seeing - but I think Eddie Diaz has some Shit To Unpack and he deserves to Unpack That Shit at his own pace (which is, yes, glacial). I’m certainly not the authority on queer identity, and as someone who grew up in the church and had deep, internalized homophobia to sort out before I could come to terms with my own sexuality, I think Eddie needs to have his own Moment with his sexuality because he has a different understanding (bc of his upbringing) than Buck does, clearly, of queer identity and that’s ok? I would even go so far as to say that it’s beautiful? being lgbt isn’t always a neat little realization - sometimes it’s really, really scary to have your entire worldview rocked and start coming to terms with something you maybe shoved down deep because it wasn’t something you were safe to be.

(and yes I recognize the irony of this - writing and reading fics where Buddie are happily together with minimal interruption to their daily lives, or where the realization is natural and maybe that could happen (idk I’m not the authority here) in the show, but do I see a show that prides itself on The Drama giving us a neat and tidy resolution to Buddie? haha no. but that’s why I’m a fanfic writer and not a show writer - I get to write my little fantasies in the safety of fandom.)

tldr; if Buddie does go canon, I think that a neat and tidy little “Eddie is Gay and He’s Totally Cool With It” ignores certain things we’ve seen from Eddie. Not that Eddie is homophobic (bc it’s canon he’s not ok) - I’m saying that as a later-in-life queer who was like #ally!! until I had a breakdown about kissing my (female) friend, self-hatred is a hell of a drug.

there is something about “it’s ok for others to be [this], but not for me bc I am [fill in the blank].” Eddie does not view “gay” as negative but I do think he has some shit to kick through & that’s ok - he deserves the chance to do that.

[epiphainie]

please i need some hope right now, do you think tommy is coming back 😩😩

i don't think i'm the hope central right now (or ever lmao?) because no, i don't think him coming back is in the plans right now. i don't think it was something as conspiratorial as higher-ups cutting the story short or bts drama between the actors either. i don't think the show ever meant for buck to settle down in his love life, it wasn't their plan when they brought in tommy nor was it their plan when they brought him back after the initial arc. they were just riding the positive feedback as much as they could without needing to commit to a big change to the status quo 🤷‍♀️