#salt wank (discourse)

[the-bar-sinister]

why do you hate trans crocodile? is it him being trans or just how the fandom treats his character because of it? somthing else?

As a trans man myself, and someone who sees a lot of myself in Crocodile I don't like the way that a lot of the fandom uses the "trans crocodile" theory as an opportunity to emasculate him, socially and sexually, and treat him as a female character and a mother.

I don't like the way that some people post completely untagged and unavoidable Crocodile with tits or top surgery scars (which he wouldn't even have if we're going by the Iva theory which started the whole headcanon).

I wouldn't have a problem if i could just block "trans crocodile" and "crocomom" (I have) and be done with it. But even blocking those two tags, I still see these extremely dysphoria inducing images completely untagged and impossible to filter.

I sure as hell don't like the way some people treat it as canon, when it's a completely unsubstantiated theory, and I don't like the way people use it as an excuse to mischaracterize and feminize him.

And I don't like the ship with Dragon.

I knew about the ship and the theory before I had caught up to the comic, and I waited the *entire 1120 chapters* waiting to see Crocodile and Dragon interact, mention one another or allude to knowing about the other's existence, and they don't. So I do feel a little led on about how popular this crack ship based on a fan theory is.

Frankly, I went into "trans Crocodile" as I was reading with an open mind, thinking that it could be canon. But between the fact that I absolutely don't see any personal evidence of it, and the way the fandom takes the opportunity to feminize and emasculate him with it, I just don't like it and I wish I could block all of it.

I'm very happy for the people who enjoy it, they should keep doing what they love. I just don't want to see it, it makes me feel icky.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

We have seen Norman and Yuugo with mustaches/no hair/different hair. Now i would like to see Lucas with a big barb or mustaches or long hair XD

Or Emma having long hair when she is found by his family after two years.

I'm going to decline putting Emma (or Violet) into a longer hairstyle unless said style is at Miku levels of recognition and the character association is the main focus rather than aesthetics because I have too much baggage associated with it, specifically of it falling into stereotypical portrayals of feminine beauty that associates her adopting it as necessary for her to achieve self-actualization and a reflection of her maturing into a more demure young woman worthy of being arm candy for Norman or Ray (outside of Mama Emma AUs where it's a symbol of patriarchal oppression, but those have their own issues). I don't believe there's anything wrong for female characters to have long hair in general, but specifically with her it seems to lend itself to conformity that prioritizes the boys, and while I have seen exceptions, my anecdotal experience with them hasn't been good, so 80% of the time when I encounter it it's a red flag that I'm probably not going to enjoy the material lol

For Lucas, with how resourceful he and the Goldy Pond Resistance are I can't say I'm surprised they found the means to maintain their facial/body hair (the demons might have provided them with these materials but it doesn't seem like it would be a priority compared to food, medical supplies, weapons, other toiletries), but more so that there was time and effort put into it when hunts were going on every three days. Like with Yuugo, though, there's something to be said about maintaining as much semblance of a normal life and routine as one can under those circumstances. Think I'd be most interested in seeing him with a beard for how uneven it would be with his scars.

(Chapter 69)

[alligatorjesie]

Man. You’re right @driversfavtwink , I should go outside and touch some grass.

Hey wait a minute.

I’m already outside.

This reminds me of that time I made a whole post involving an anti and how instead of telling people in this fandom to kill themselves, a thing they had done repeatedly in the past, how to go outside and touch exactly the right type of grass and to spend some fucking time doing that instead of what they were actively doing,

Which was telling people in my fandom to kill themselves.

You don’t even fucking understand just how much grass I regularly touch just to deal with anti shitwads.

And you know what this anti told me after I took all that time to record them a personalized video with extraordinarily detailed explanations on how to take care of this incredibly invasive plant?

because that’s fucking normal.

Let’s not forget how a few years ago a furry convention I go to every year was chlorine bombed by a nazi fur who was disgruntled when con staff told them we don’t allow nazis into the fucking con.

A very real thing that happened to me and over 7,000 other furries in the middle of the night in winter in Chicago.

Then a few weeks ago I counter protested with the same invasive plant info at a drag show in an attempt to block visibility to a death cult church who regularly pickets any pride events in my town like our own personal westboro baptist church.

They spent the evening telling me and everyone there how we was all gonna burn in a lake of fire.

This is were they set up and spent the next 5ish hours death proselytize a drag show.

Unlike @miguelsdumbass, I actually don't mind people knowing I'm a real person doing real things like the person I say I fucking am.

I'm not asking a child to show me proof of who the are by the way. They can tell me there the queen of fucking France for all the fucks I don't give. I just want them to fix their fucking tags and get the fuck out of this fandom space. It's the first thing I said to this chucklefuck and it'll be the last fucking thing I ever say to them.

You know, it just seems like hateful people keep encroaching on the spaces I should be safe in but for some reason assholes like you seem to think I'm overreacting when all I'm fucking doing is telling them to Leave if they hate it so much. I don't want 'em here, and the entire fucking fandom/drag show/pride event/convention don't want this hateful shit either.

It seems like I'm having a lot of trouble just going into spaces that were designated for us being interrupted by assholes who can't read the fucking room.

I’m noticing a pattern is all I’m saying.

@Miguelsdumbass here isn’t even the worst one. They’re just a child and really fucking stupid.

Which by the way @miguel-o-haras-rp, whats it like living a total lie? I remember when I was your age I lied about working for disney’s animation studios. And people fucking believed me.

The internet and fun and full of stupid people.

@miguel-o-haras-rp is not Jewish because this wasn’t even a thing on their bio until I dared to bring up nazis and that’s all this pee brained moron could think up when being compared to the same group of people who regularly tell me and my friends to kill themselves, which antis do. Telling a whole group of people they should eat shit and die for participating in a thing, that’s some nazi shit you know? The trans thing is new by the way @miguel-o-haras-rp, what argument lead to this one? Are you gonna identify as an attack helicopter next? Who knows what new personality you’ll invent in the coming weeks. A better one we can only fucking hope.

Not until you finally figure out the horrible history of antis and abhorrent anti behavior that's for fucking sure.

Antis, which shitass here openly says they’re a member of;

have been telling people to kill themselves since fucking time immemorial.

‘Anti’ is a new term but the act of being one isn’t fucking new.

nazis are anti Jewish.

Straight white conservatives are anti anything that ain’t a straight white conservatives.

@miguel-o-haras-rp is anti using common sense genetics to realize multiracial people can look multiracial.

I’ve been around the block. I know hateful people when I see them. The fact you’re defending this person says more about you than me @driversfavtwink.

I do see the irony in being told by a Adam Driver superfan, historically really fucking weird people into some weird shit but whatever you do you boo I ain't a part of that drama, are more normal than the reylos who are just enjoy a fictional canon vanilla fandom and ship, but go fucking off I guess.

I ain't never doxxed anyone. But I know a few adam driver superfans who have.

Daivers are the weird fucking people who obsessively ship Daisy and Adam, the real people and not their fictional Star Wars characters, are not to be confused with "Reylos".

We are not the same fucking thing.

No one is white washing a half white character by stating the half white character looks a little white.

Ya'll are real fucking stupid.

Also:

Antis ain’t your fucking friend.

Antis are fucking scum who tell people the most horrible shit. They’re not any fucking better than that church who pickets my local pride events or that nazi who chlorine bombed a bunch of furries because we didn't like his shitass racist opinions.

and they’re not any fucking better than real nazis, a group of people so passionately hateful they just went straight to killin’ the thing they hated.

I can and will make that comparison because

much like how nazis kept actually killing Jewish people, antis keep telling me and mine to fucking die in just about every group I'm in.

Not just in the reylo fandom, but in the furry fandom, and in the LGBTQ community too.

And that's some nazi shit and it's getting really fucking old.

And if you’re gonna act like one you can leave too shitass, fuck

[armoralor]

“I just don’t understand why people are mad!! I just perpetuate the most basic misogynistic, homophobic, and biphobic views that are supported and encourage by patriarchal institutions. I’m only trying to make all [female] characters fit a standardized cookie-cutter mold (that the characters themselves aren’t interested in), to fulfil my own fantasies of marrying a handsome man and have his babies. I am completely justified in projecting all of my own beliefs and values onto these characters, and telling anyone who disagrees they are delusional. Also- anyone who argues with me just hates what I have labelled soft & motherly.”

only the d/nbos would be like omg everyone hates us just bc we love our ship they’re so mean we need to hold a straight solidarity week during literal pride month whilst consistently barging into other peoples posts/tweets/tiktoks at every fucking moment to scream about how their ship is canon because the characters looked at each other once

[fevers-and-emeto-oh-my]

by the way if you put anti shit in the main tags of your fandom you need a crash course in basic tumblr etiquette

if it's fandom wank or salt it gets its OWN tag to say "resident evil wank" "resident evil salt" fucking "leon kennedy wank" or whatever. "fandom wank" or "fandom discourse" would ALSO be acceptable

don't just full on ATTACK people in the main tags. because now I feel attacked in my own fandom for *checks notes*: enjoying harmless dead dove content

if you want to be an anti in the nonconsensual human experimentation fandom that's fine i guess, doesn't make sense to me but you do what floats your boat. BUT DON'T GO CALLING PEOPLE FREAKS IN THE FUCKING "Leon S. Kennedy" TAG

[kedreeva]

I generally stay out of any discourse but there's one thing I read that makes me feel like I'm losing my mind and since I've been in love with your Good Omens meta since season 1 I figure you might help me shed some light on the issue.

I've read in a post that Crowley only stops Elspeth from offing herself because Aziraphale inspired him to do so with his own attempts to save Elspeth's soul and I feel this is...canonically incorrect? Like, not ambiguous or free for interpretation but literally canonically incorrect. The point of the minisode was foreshadowing on Aziraphale's lack of...not understanding of but willingness to accept Heaven's cruelty. It's Crowley who always jumps in first to sace everyone: Siti when she's about to curse God, the humans at the ball, Maggie and Nina when Saraquiel wants to turn them into pillars of salt.

Am I losing my mind or is the take about Aziraphale being the reason for Crowley rescuing Elspeth absolutely not canon? Because I fear if it was, I'd thoroughly misunderstood Crowley's entire character. The whole point is that he is good, that he protects and saves the innocent, without having to be inspired or prompted to do it, right?

I'd be very much obliged if you could shed some light on that for me 😅

I'm gonna level with you, I don't know who Elspeth is, or have recollection of Crowley saving her, or whether Aziraphale did or did not influence anything. I watched S2 once and went "ah, it's not finished, no thank you. I will await the finish before I engage again" and set it gently and lovingly back down. Through this method, I generally avoid wank like whether or not Crowley was influenced by Aziraphale to do a thing I don't remember anything about to a person I equally may as well never have met.

But, if I may say this, you're allowed to have a different headcanon to someone else. Heck, you're allowed to have a different headcanon than anyone else. You are allowed to interpret canon in a complete 180 way from someone else, and can do so without worrying about what they think happened, because the characters are fictional and canon is merely a corpse whose pockets we rifle through for loose beliefs the moment we're finished consuming it. Make your own post about how you think it went, there are bound to be people who agree with you. Maybe you'll find them, maybe you won't. Won't know til you try.

Good luck out there friend!

[perihelions-security]

Hello! Call me Fox!

Some of you might know me as the artist over at @foxprints or one of the two authors of the fics To Bring It Home and Autonomous Systems, among others. I've been in the fandom for just shy of 2 years now and it's become such a comfort to me. Truly, The Murderbot Diaries has become my Sanctuary Moon, as I know it has for so many others. I've met some amazing people through this fandom, some who've become remarkably dear to me, and I hope to meet others. Additionally, the art and writing and analysis shared in this fandom has been amazing -- I hope to be able to curate and share what I can here.

A Note about content and tags:

You won't see shipping discourse on this account, unless it's in the form of a plea to let people have their own interpretations of the characters and their relationships. As someone that identifies as somewhere on the aroace spectrum (currently relating most to the label Demi) and is relatively sex repulsed, the ability to explore the nuances and variations of how asexual and/or aromantic relationship dynamics might work is everything to me.

If you follow the fandom adages of Ship and Let Ship and YKINMKATO, you're more than welcome here. See below for a list of tags that I will be using so that everyone can curate their fandom experience -- the list includes ship tags, content warnings, whether a post is book or show specific, etc.

With that being said, I am a Murderhelion shipper. Their relationship is very dear to me, regardless of how it's interpreted. BFFs. Romantically and/or sexually. Soulmates. Platonic life partners. Queer platonic partners. Whatever. They have a partnership and a bond, and all the specifics of that bond are window dressings. You can definitely expect to see a fair amount of posting and flailing regarding them here lol.

Most Important Tags:

While I can't promise to tag every post all the time, I will do my best to always use these tags when relevant as I know they're related to content people are most likely wanting to blacklist.

#murderbot tv

#fandom salt (for any negativity/wank/salt etc. I hope to rarely need this one)

#murderhelion or #artmb (for overtly shippy posts)

#mb+a (for all posts featuring MB and ART regardless of relationship interpretation)

For a comprehensive (tho not exhaustive) list of tags that will be used, see the following list.

Content Tags:

#book meta #tv meta

#book news #tv news #mw news

#official merch

#fanart #tv fanart

#mb study #mb designs

#fanfic

#memes

#fandom salt

Content Warning Tags:

#cw #cw blood

#fandom salt

#aroace discourse (as it pertains to tmbd)

(others to be added)

Book Tags:

#murderbot books

#book covers

#book quotes

#asr #ac #rp #es #home #ft #ne #sc

Character Tags:

#Murderbot #perihelion #ayda mensah #amena mensah #ratthi #arada #overse #gurathin #pin-lee #bharadwaj #presaux crew #miki #three #iris #2.0

#my OCs #tmbd oc: Corona #tmbd oc: Lark #tmbd oc: Starquake

#the rise and fall of sanctuary moon

Shipping Tags:

#murderhelion #artmb #mb+a

Person Tags:

#Martha Wells #Tommy Arnold #Kevin R Free #Alexander Skarsgård

[the-bar-sinister]

I read your crocodile posts and i could not agree more, but i'm coming at this from an alternate perspective as a cis lesbian. there's something really upsetting about how the trans croco headcanon has people convinced that somehow, by virtue of being in any way feminine, he's somehow kinder and caring and motherly which is so weird and offputting. it's a disgusting mix of casual transphobia and misogyny and i don't understand why so many people don't see the fandoms treatment of a trans crocodile as the problem it is. it's like they've turned him into essentially a cis woman who's suddenly nice and caring but in a cool new progressive way that excuses it and makes it not transphobia somehow.

Honestly thanks for that perspective, anon. I very much agree with you that it feels like "cool new misogyny/cool new transphobia" and I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing the weird uncomfortableness of the portrayal.

(tagging these as "#trans crocodile discourse" going forward for those who wish to avoid!)

[armoralor]

One of the worst aspects of the Ahsoka show is all of the people who love obsessing over shipping kids in Star Wars are coming out of the woodwork again.

"Ezra was so in love with Sabine in season 1-" he was a child.

"Sabine probably thought Ezra so hot-" she was a child.

Characters can have crushes and puppy love, but being a full grown adult and hyper-fixating on kids liking each other is so fucking strange.

[glossolali]

It's just... such a hard concept to grasp... on this improv acting show with actors on it that's been running for 3 campaigns over 7 years.....

[bijoharvelle]

i’m merely the bitch to @eccentriccas‘s brains

[armoralor]

“Can we please stop having one dimensional views of female characters?” [proceeds to reduce women to a one dimensional character trope that plagues media]

There are different kinds of love. Loving a friend or caring about someone does not: 1) magically make you a parent 2) mean you are romantically in love with someone.

Preventing someone from dying does not mean: 1) you want to have their babies 2) you want to settle down and live with them.

I am once again asking people to do a little self reflection & critical thinking. [here] is a link to the entire literary journal titled “Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence,” with an updated forward by the author Adrienne Cecile Rich. 

I feel like there have been four main fan reactions to bo-katan on tumblr since season 3 aired

1. she’s a bitch and the show was ruined by making it all about her

2. she was a bitch but now that I can re-interpret her in the role of soft wife and mother I adore her

3. I don’t care I’m just here for the single dad and his green son

4. bo-katan is a lesbian

[angelsndragons]

lol, oh man, that “liam late game discourse” is fucking hysterical.

like

people are throwing fits about something....that caleb absolutely confirmed in canon months ago.

like, it wasn’t subtle, either. dude literally said to astrid ‘the love we three shared’ while in the middle of a sexually charged james bond-esque waltz with her across their old haunt.

like i’m ace and i picked up on that shit.

[the-bar-sinister]

absolutely hate the crocomom theory and it’s mainly because everyone decided that’s what to call it. i like the idea of croc being trans but absolutely hate the way almost everyone chooses to portray it. especially as a trans guy myself

Right? every now and then I see crocodad instead and that at least often seems marginally more respectful but the majority of it.... 😬 It's just such an uncomfortable yikes.

[primrose-path-of-dalliance]

@\ widojests because i love you but have a unique tolerance level for cold takes. i sure hope i don’t see any moral criticism of fj/ord’s strategic decisions this last episode as shipping war fodder, because it’s 100% real facts that caleb would have done exactly the same thing. in fact, he might have said the rangers should engage quicker than fj/ord’s tastefully pregnant pause.

caleb and fj/ord are cut from the same cloth. they shook bloody hands in dashilla’s lair. they understand each other. ruthless priorities have always been the name of their game. why else do you think jester loves them both?

[lazy-cat-corner]

You have to laugh when antis intentionally put ship tags in their rants. They’re so bothered they have to tell everyone that passes their way like a fucking door to door cult recruiter. Like it’s not enough to circle jerk with their mutuals, they need to tell the shippers in question they’re sinners and the lord will condemn them for their heresy.

Well buddy, I’m here to tell you Catholic school didn’t shame the bi outta me or convince me to save sex for marriage, so your half-baked self-righteous posts won’t get me nowhere either.