#so back to your initial point
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pynkhues · 1 month ago
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I'm kind of hoping they use little enough French in the flashbacks that it doesn't matter if the actress knows French or not. I just don't want the actors, especially Sam since the bulk of it will fall on him, to have to be thinking about speaking not just with an accent but a whole other language while doing super demanding scenes. And actually, the fact that they seem to have leaned into a whole swashbuckling/storybook vibe for Armand's version of his history with Lestat makes me feel like the French may have been part of that, and they'd be a lot less likely to want to do that in more serious and extended scenes.
I don't think they'll have them speak French / make them act in French in s3 all that much, anon, honestly. Given Lestat's going to be recounting his life story to Daniel, I imagine they'll do the same sort of bait-and-switch they did with the Theatres des Vampires, only where that's the company choosing to speak English for Louis and Claudia (hilarious given Louis can speak French too, although the show is pointed that Claudia couldn't at least as a girl), Lestat will end up translating his memories into English for Daniel's sake.
You make a really good point about Armand though, and I actually have lowkey wondered how much that's more about Armand flexing a degree of power over Daniel, who I imagine can't speak French, but also about him further romanticising his relationship with Lestat? Him giving himself a shared language with Lestat is just a really interesting beat to me. I do think a part of it is indicative of his social chameleoning and performative subservience - Lestat's native tongue is French, Louis' is English, neither are his, but he'll use the one they're most comfortable with - but I also think his refusal to perhaps accomodate Daniel (and us as viewers) with Lestat in particular is also maybe an indication of his degree of ownership over the narrative he's weaving with Lestat, and maaaaybe even a bit of a one-upmanship of Louis?
S1 tells us that Louis speaks French too, and English being Lestat's second language is a genuine character beat that's even related to Louis learning how to be a vampire (words are like doorknobs falling from his mouth!), and Louis' uncomfortable with his vampirism, but also can speak French, but very rarely does with Lestat. He asks Lestat to accomodate him, but doesn't accomodate Lestat unless it's to argue in a language he knows their daughter doesn't understand.
I'm not saying any of this to criticise Louis at all - I think Lestat established English as their shared language as much as Louis did, and I actually think there's even something toxic, but a little romantic too, haha, about it being their shared language as parents - but it's interesting that Armand makes a point of himself and Lestat speaking in French. In some ways you could even argue that it's what Lestat does with Louis in courting him - using the first-language of the person you want, instead of your own - but it's interesting in that context too knowing that Armand wants Daniel, haha.
This is all just meanderings at this point, haha, but yes! The point is, I think they'll wriggle out of the flashbacks all being in French pretty quickly.
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you know what I find fascinating about how Helen is talked about in the works in the epic cycle?
everyone has argued to death over whether she was kidnapped, went willingly, was influenced/controlled/threatened by Aphrodite, whatever, but the thing is the actual TEXTS can't seem to make up their minds on Helen. everyone will be cursing Helen's name as an unfaithful wife and destroyer of men in Agamemnon but then Paris will be called a "robber-rapist" which would obviously heavily imply that he stole and assaulted her (plus the part where Clytemnestra basically says "shut the fuck up about Helen she didn't force you to do all that", although how much we're supposed to agree with her is debatable). In Iphigenia In Aulis we're going to war to get REVENGE on the Trojans AND HELEN but then Agamemnon will accuse Menelaus of "lust(ing) only to hold a lovely woman in (his) arms", calls him crazy for wanting her back, and then when Menelaus changes his mind about killing Iphigenia to get the winds back he says "Could I not obtain A perfect marriage elsewhere, if I longed for Marrying? But a brother whom I should Most cherish, I was about to forfeit To gain a Helen, so bartering excellence For evil" which is still pretty spiteful towards Helen but also really fucking weird to say if he only wanted her back to kill or otherwise punish her. Then, in the same play, the Greeks are described as wanting to sail to Troy so "That they may halt the plunder of marriage beds And the rape and seizure of Greek women" which would also imply Helen was, in fact, raped and seized, otherwise why would it be phrased like that and not like, "seduced" or "whisked away" or whatever? In Orestes Elektra and Orestes interpret Helen's actions in the worst possible light while when Helen actually speaks she seems generally sympathetic towards them, distraught and grieving over the whole situation, and claims that she went because Aphrodite made her mad, which could absolutely be a lie, but the thing is we just don't know who's the unreliable narrator here Is this a translation thing? Indicative of a really weird idea of what rape is? Is this an intentional writing choice? This got me to thinking and then I realized that if Menelaus was away when Helen left then he almost certainly doesn't actually know what happened. He didn't see or hear what happened, he doesn't get a chance to talk to Helen and have her explain until after the war, and obviously none of the other Greeks would know for sure either, right? And I just think it is kind of a missed opportunity that adaptations don't really do anything with this kind of unspoken conflict at all. Paris the Musical kind of does (Menelaus believes Helen was abducted when she ended up begrudgingly going with Paris trying to help him to escape) but like, why do all the greek men have one idea of Helen in adaptations? Why don't they argue about it? Why don't they question Menelaus about his motivations more? What if (especially if Aphrodite fucked with her head, as I am one to believe) Helen doesn't even trust herself on her own intentions? What if Menelaus tears himself up debating this with himself every night? Like, could I trust that she wouldn't do this to me and our daughter? Is it better that my wife doesn't love me anymore and is safe with her new lover, or that she does but is trapped against her will having who knows what done to her? Do I know my wife anymore? Did I ever know her in the first place? What if he lays eyes on Helen, his Helen, for the first time in ten years and his sword slips from his grasp as he realizes that yes, of course he knows her, how could he have ever doubted? Or maybe he still doesn't know if he knows her, but maybe he doesn't need to, because he knows that she is tired and scared, and he still loves her, and he just wants to take her back to their home? What then? Hm?
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mapsofnonexistentplaces · 4 months ago
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honestly the older ive gotten the more ive become disillusioned with 'xyz white character but now they're brown!' and it sucks because i absolutely do not mean it in the usual 'weh weh making everything woke' way but rather that many people who seek to diversify casts of mostly white/pale people never think through the cultural implications of what they're penning down yknow. like to be honest if you just pick up a white character and go 'theyre brown now look at my awesome redesign' i kind of feel nothing because textually that is just a white person wearing the skin of a poc and it's not like. representation. at worst it gets straight up tokenising. maybe it's just because it's actually very easy to find 'diverse' media that is not written by some white dude that is writing every character from the perspective of a white dude (there are so many brown characters that just read as white because the author does not put any effort into distinguishing lived experiences) and i find it much more fulfilling to take somewhat underdeveloped characters that are clearly meant to be ethnic and rightfully elaborate on them rather than slap a stamp of approval on some white guy. Not to mention the fact that sometimes a character being white is actually very informative of their place in society and their inherited cultural bigotry but then people turn around and contradict that which is like, not something i'm critiquing from a "how dare you ruin this white character" standpoint but from a "you have to make very convoluted steps and bounds to explain why this brown character acts like a white bigot and it quickly gets very uncomfortable" one. yknow. and tangentially i think the same thing with people randomly headcanoning characters as trans. like sure you want to project but sometimes i think its worth asking yourself 'is this character a critique of cis white men and how does making them marginalised change the implications'. like people can have their fun but damn man sometimes it just gets in the way. does that make sense.
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docsbestkissedoperative · 2 months ago
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a ref of jeb i made for a thing i'm making teehee
(more thoughts in the tags bc i'm shy but his design is mostly based off of his mpn and live appearance! i got the idea to tear his lab coat up and finally decided to make his pants darker like his live action ver from @/fluffydeoxys' design and the elbow bandages from someone who gave him elbow pads but i can't find them SOBS.
i see his bandages as his way to keep himself together in some fear he'd come apart lol
also thought about the cross necklace from @/mersei47's design and it's on the mpn card of him! i did put some beads to make it appear a bit more rosary like but never able to finish even a single mystery on it. no one to reach out to but yourself now!)
#docsart#jebediah christoff#madness combat#madness combat jeb#i actually see him as someone who initially geared up a lot but started to neglect doing so over time#so focused on his goal and duty and becoming reckless ykno ykno#reminds me of inundation where he's throwing up blood and ignoring it because he's “”“purging the wicked”“”#he probably had elbow pads before but replaced them with bandages when they wore out#also the messyish hair is from how screwed it looks in the series <3#and yeah his coat is something he sees as a relic of a past long gone that he still deeply aches for to the point of making it his duty to#bring it back to those days#so he wants to keep it no matter what#but the bloodshed has tinted it red. it will never be the same again. like how he and all of nevada will never be the same again#also i am 100% sure some of the blood is his especially on the elbows#a mole under the eye (tear mole) is sometimes said to cause you so many challenges in life#another source said it could also mean that you would do well in your career and be supported and. just funny to make it ironic#and could mean you have “selfish and stubborn traits always prioritizing their own interests”#and “not receptive to others opinions and comments”#so. haha jeb#disclaimer i don't believe in those but i think it's interesting and could apply to this loser old man#anyway rant over thanks for watching make sure to like and subscribe to the ch#OH and the shoes are walking boots. i felt he'd be reasonable with that
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normalbroadcast · 1 month ago
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i don't know how much overlap there is in fans of both these shows but i just think these two queens would have a lot to talk about. and i need to put this thought out into the universe
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rbtlvr · 5 months ago
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& by the way i literally CONSTANTLY think about how loop uses the partys titles to create distance to remind themself that those arent 'their versions' of them. that theyre not loops party anymore. and yet and yet and yet
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#talk tag#i think about 'and because of you bonnie was-' DAILYYYYYY#god. god. they care s mcuhghfjkbjkdklj#i think that may be the only time until twohats that they ever use any of the partys names. except! for reminding sif if u get that dialogu#which. im also normal about. clearly obviously absolutely#they create that distance as much as they can and yet. for siffrin.#godddddd i need to be sedated#isat spoilers#okay oh my god i went back to check to make sure i was right and turns out i forgor a couple of times both of which make me even more ill#one is technically under the umbrella of twohats bc its at the very end when loop says theyll need to accept everyones thanks. and they say#-everyones names. and the other is at the very very beginning in the initial battle tutorial they say everyones names + stats#(which btw PROVES MY POINT abt so much of loops help going under the radar bc in any other game itd just be a regular tutorial with no-#-in universe correlation or effect)#but they start with 'heres some basic stats about you and your party members to remember' and i. the. like realistically the explanation-#-for loop using their names instead of titles. is bc adrienne thought using their titles would make it too obvious someone else was talking#since u havent met loop yet at that point and dont know its not a regular tutorial thats only directed at the player and not the character#But Also: heres some things you should remember about your party members [lists their names]#im normal. im fine and normal. prommy#... okay it turns out they also say isabeaus name when giving the paper mache hands tutorial. no idea what to make of that one aklfjdlksjf#and after the change god event when u bring it up they say 'mirabelles statue'#And Thats It. fascinating. what is the logic there#isatposting
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miraculouslbcnreactions · 9 months ago
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Sorry if this seems confrontational, but for the life of me I can’t get into your “Chloe has no growth” point when the show itself retracts growth from everyone and is inconsistent with everyone. You saying “The show just lays down basic character traits in Chloe” doesn’t make sense when her basic character traits are supposed to be her being selfish and spoiled.
S2 built off of that and despite what you say, had Chloe doing things that in S1 she wouldn’t have done. She apologized multiple times to the people she wronged, she willingly put herself in harm’s way to help the people she cares about and she was openly vulnerable to Ladybug in “Malidiktaor”. Something S1 Chloe wouldn’t have done. If there’s a distinct difference between a Chloe back in S1 and a Chloe in S2, then growth HAS taken place. But it doesn’t stay because of the formula (and the writers just don’t want her to keep that growth)
So what I’m asking is…what do you mean “Chloe doesn’t have growth”?
I can understand the “No arc” argument because an unfinished arc feels like there’s no arc at all (even though they are fundamentally not the same)
I wouldn't say that the show retracts growth from everyone. It's more that no one is ever supposed to grow. Every episode resets the cast. That's just how pure formula shows work and Miraculous is being sold as a pure formula show. The characters are meant to be static (one of the writers literally compared Miraculous to Dora the Explorer).
That static nature is why pure formula shows normally avoid giving their good-guy characters major flaws. It's the wrong medium for that type of thing specifically because the characters cannot change in meaningful ways throughout the show. They can learn little lessons that don't really change them and maybe have big change between seasons via a special or movie, but that's about it. Thus things like the season four conflict working so poorly. It's just a terrible choice for a formula show! The conflict is literally not allowed to develop properly because of the chosen format.
But sure, let's talk about Chloe and why I will die on the hill that she never demonstrated meaningful improvement even with the issue of the inconstant writing. In fact, seasons-one-to-three Chloe is one of the most consistent characters in the show. For this discussion to work, we need to start off by discussing character development and the two main forms it can take: character establishment and character growth.
Character Establishment
When the audience meets a character, they know nothing about said character. It's up to the writer to guide the introduction process. To choose when to reveal already existing elements of the character's personality, skills, and backstory. This is called character establishment. It is the writing telling you who the character is on a baseline level. Those reveals don't need to happen at the start of the story, though. They can be - and often are - held back for when the time is right.
When these reveals are delayed, it's important to remember that these elements were always part of the character. The reveal isn't changing who the character actually is. It's just changing how the audience views the character.
For example, we spend a good chunk of season one uncertain why Gabriel is doing what he does. Then, in Origins, we learn that it's all for Emilie. This is new information that adds depth to Gabriel's character, but it doesn't change him in any way. This is who he always was. We just know him better now and can recontextualize past events with our new understanding of his motivation.
Character Growth
Character growth is when writers take a character's personality or world view or even just their skills from point A to point B, allowing the audience to watch the character change and become a new better - or lesser - version of themself. This is usually part of a larger character arc where all the moments of growth add up, but it can take the form of small moments of growth that don't fit into a bigger picture, too. I'd probably still call that an arc, but we'll use the word "growth" a lot in this post, so let's just call it growth to be consistent.
Miraculous doesn't really have either arcs or growth because - once again - formula shows don't allow characters to meaningfully change, so I'm going to have to make up an example here. I'll use one that illustrates how character establishment and character growth can and do intertwine as that's an important thing to acknowledge to help guide this discussion.
Let's say that we have a character who lost their family at a young age. We'll call this character Mary. Mary's loss guides her character throughout the entire story, but the other characters and the audience are never told that this is what's going on. We just know that Mary acts in seemingly illogical ways at times and that she trusts no one.
Throughout the story, Mary learns to trust her costars, leading to a big, dramatic scene where she finally tells them - and the audience - about her past. This big dramatic scene is both the culmination of a character arc and a piece of baseline character establishment that allows us to understand Mary's character better no matter what part of the story we're reading.
Because these combo growth and establishment moments are so common in stories, it can feel like character growth when we learn new things about a character in a dramatic moment, but that's not always what's happening. Sometimes dramatic moments are just there to reveal what was always there by forcing a character to act differently than they usually do through the power of extenuating circumstances. These extenuating-circumstances moments are not character growth because, once the moment is over, the character resets to their normal self. The moment wasn't there to let them grow. It was there for the sake of the plot.
This is actually a really important thing that writers need to know how to do. Figuring out what circumstances will make a character say or do a thing they generally wouldn't say or do is part of how stories work. I have started stories with characters acting wildly "out of character" because I put them in the a situation where the behavior suddenly was in character!
Oh, you don't want to talk to this total stranger because you're an introvert with social anxiety who has yet to learn how to love yourself and open up to others? That's nice. Your leg is broken now and you're stuck in the middle of nowhere. What you gonna do sucker? Lie there in the dirt or talk to the nice lady who wants to help you? Your choice! (Spoiler: he talked to the nice lady. He even let her physically support him when he'd usually never let a stranger touch him!)
As soon as that scene was over, the character reverted because it wasn't growth. He didn't become a more open person. He just did something he normally wouldn't do because the situation demanded it. It was extenuating circumstances so that the freaking plot could start.
This is what happened with Chloe in season two. Everything that people call growth is really just extenuating circumstances that reset by the end of the episode or even by the end of the scene.
Let's Talk About Chloe
Chloe does not have a character arc, aborted or otherwise. She is never taken on a journey where we watch her change. All we get is delayed character establishment via extenuating circumstances, but it's given in ways that make some people feel like she was being given an arc. Let's talk about why that is.
Season one Chloe is a one dimensional mean girl. She has almost no depth. She's just here to be petty and cause akumas. She is not a fully realized character.
Season two takes those traits and keeps them, but also gives Chloe a lot more depth to round her out and make her feel like a real character. She's just as petty and mean as she always was, but we're finally allowed to see her in some moments that make her feel like a well of potential to become something more, which the writers basically had to do if they wanted to let her be a hero. The audience needed to feel like Chloe could be good in the right situation.
The feelings evoked by her newly discovered depth are why people go "oh, she had a character arc! My feelings about her changed in a big way!" But she didn't have an arc. You just got to know her better by seeing her in moments where she was forced to be vulnerable. That's not growth. Growth is meaningful, lasting change, not situational change. Everyone changes based on the situation! It's why the "True Selves" stuff is such nonsense. It implies that there's one set way that we're supposed to act in order to be authentic and anything else is some kind of lie which just isn't how the world works.
Let's look at some examples to drive home what I mean.
Season one established that Chloe idolized Ladybug. It's why we get things like this moment from Evil Illustrator:
Ladybug: Fine! You stay! Later! Cat Noir: What do you mean later? Ladybug: I mean, you're the one who wants to protect her, so you don't need me. So, later! (swings away) Chloé:(looks over balcony) Ahhh! Ladybug! Text me! OK!
And this confession from Antibug:
Ladybug: [Chloe] pretended she was me?! How often does that happen? Armand: She idolizes you.
So Chloe adores Ladybug and wants to impress her/be her best friend. Cool. Got it. That never goes anywhere in season one because season one doesn't see Chloe and Ladybug interact much. The most we get is Ladybug saving Chloe from akumas, which doesn't allow for deep conversations. I don't think that they're ever alone in a moment where they can actually talk.
That changes in season two. In season two, they get to interact a lot and it's often in moments where there's a big threat and no one else is around, letting us see a new side to Chloe. But that's not Chloe changing. It's just the writers revealing that Chloe has more to her than the mean girl stuff because of course she does! Pure mean girls don't exist. Everyone has depth. We simply never saw that depth before because Chloe was never put in a situation where she needed to be open. We can't say that season one Chloe wouldn't confess things to Ladybug or chose to sacrifice herself to let Ladybug win because she never had the chance to do those things!
In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that season one Chloe probably would have done the same things as season two Chloe because season two Chloe doesn't really contradict season one Chloe. Antibug showed us that Chloe was pretty desperate to be loved and welcomed the way that Ladybug is loved and welcomed:
Chloé: Jagged Stone! Jagged: (thinking she's the actual Ladybug) Ladybug! What are you doing here? Chloé: Um… when I find out you were here, I knew you'd wanna see me! I had to come say hello. (Sabrina waves at Jagged)
and Chloe has always been a stubborn girl who stands up for what she wants even if what she wants is something bad. Antibug also showed us that Chloe can be genuinely nice to the people she cares about. Her and Sabrina's relationship is shown to be complex with them often having a lot of fun together.
Similarly, Origins sees Chloe showing her father genuine affection after she's saved from Stoneheart:
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[Image description: Chloe and Andre hugging and looking very happy to be together]
Origins is the baseline episode that tells us who the characters are on day one, so I never once doubted that Chloe loved Andre, but Andre didn't get akumatized because of Chloe's actions in season one. He didn't even get akumatized for something that Chloe had nothing to do with! His first akumatization is in season two, so it's not shocking that we don't get a Malidiktaor type scene until Malidiktaor.
Chloe was vulnerable with her personal hero when her beloved parent was in danger, but not before? Shocking! Who would have guessed?
Me. I would have guessed. I didn't even realize that people were reading it as some sort of character growth because it clearly wasn't. Malidiktaor didn't feel like something new for Chloe's character. It just felt like the writers were leaning into things that we'd always known about Chloe and using them to better establish her character as someone who genuinely cares about select people. She just doesn't show most of the time.
The same thing goes for Chloe's sacrifice and apology in Zombizou. Chloe only sacrifices herself when there's no one left but her and Ladybug. When the choice is to let the terrorist win or take the hit and let you personal hero save the day. Brave? Sure, but also not growth. Chloe is team Ladybug for all of seasons one, two, and three! She wants Ladybug to like her! Plus even a petty brat can have moments of goodness where they pick a hero over a literal terrorist.
This honestly would have been a damming moment if Chloe didn't sacrifice herself. She functionally had no other choice here. The entire episode builds itself to the self-sacrifice moment so that Chloe is forced to make that choice even though she's been her petty bratty self throughout the whole attack. It's genuinely solid writing.
Then, in the heightened emotions directly after the Zombizou win, we get this:
Miss Bustier: But I hurt a lot of people... Chloé: No... I did... I forgot your birthday, once again. And when I saw everyone had prepared a gift for you, I totally lost it. Because I, too, would've liked to offer you something. I'm sorry, Miss Bustier. Miss Bustier: Thank you, Chloé. Those words are the best possible gift you could ever give me. (hugs Chloé) (Chloé hugs her back, forgetting herself for a moment.) Chloé: Huh?... Uh, yeah. Okay then, we're all good.
A brief moment of vulnerability that quickly ends and does not stick around because Chloe's change was situational, not true growth. The next scene of that episode starts with Chloe being her usual self:
Chloé: Me? You want me to apologize to the entire class? Ridiculous! They should be thanking me for saving everybody.
And ends with the reveal of Chloe's gift to Miss Bustier, which was given in private via a note.
Once again, nothing new for Chloe's character. She acts as she always has, being mean to everyone while having moments of vulnerability when things get tense. Remember that hug between her and her father that we talked about earlier? Same concept. She had just almost died from an akuma attack and so she needed some emotional support, leading her to act more openly loving than she usually does when he's around. Once the moment is over, she reverts to the petty mean girl default.
Giving gifts to placate people is also something that we've seen before. A pretty similar thing happens at the end of Evil Illustrator, it's just played less sympathetic towards Chloe because the writers weren't giving her depth back then:
Sabrina: Too late. Chloé and I are doing the project together. Marinette: You mean, you're doing the project? Sabrina: Well, of course! After all she's been through... Marinette: Ughhh.... Nice new beret, by the way. Sabrina: I know, right! Chloé lent it to me. She really is my BFF! Chloé! Your geography homework's ready!
For any of this to be character growth, we need to see Chloe act differently over time. For her to be put in similar situations and get different outcomes, but we don't see that in part because Chloe didn't change and in part because season one didn't do much to develop Chloe's deeper side. We rarely see her alone or in moments of extreme vulnerability, but you need those moments to show her depth. That's why Despair Bear had Chloe crying alone after Adrien threatened to end her friendship and not before. Chloe is very reluctant to openly show depth. You have to force it out of her, which perfectly fits the character we met in season one.
Even her standing up to Hawkmoth and rejecting the akuma isn't character growth in my opinion. Chloe has always stood up to authority and demanded whatever she wants. She has wanted to be Ladybug's friend and be seen as a hero since season one, so it's not shocking that her extremely strong will would allow her to defy a terrorist. If there is anyone in this show who can stand up to a terrorist on shear "no!" power alone, it's little miss I-always-get-what-I-want. I could see a variation of this happening at any point in the show, just change Chloe's reason for defying Gabriel to match the situation. Rework these lines to be about a party that she wanted to go to and I'd still totally buy it:
Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU! (throws her photo onto the ground as the akuma exits it... and pants)
Chloe acted like a hero here because she wants all the perks of being a hero and can't believe that Ladybug would actually bench her. That's impossible! Ladybug wouldn't do that!
As soon as Chloe accepts that she won't be a hero again, Chloe stops acting heroic because acting heroic wasn't growth. It was her playing a part the same way she played a part in Despair Bear. She was doing what she needed to do to be Queen Bee again and not because it's the right thing to do. This would only be real growth if she rejected the akuma after accepting that she wouldn't be Queen Bee again, but that's not what happens. As soon as she accepts that she's out, she no longer has any reason to play nice. She never grew into a character who did what's right for the sake of doing the right thing. It's always been about getting what she wants or being seen how she wants to be seen. Until that changes, she hasn't changed.
So no, Chloe didn't have an aborted arc. They didn't start to redeem her and then change their minds. All they did was make Chloe one of the most complex characters in the show only to then not do anything with the character they wasted our time establishing, ignoring the complexity they gave her while also cranking her mean dial up to the point of absurdity where she's not even fun in her original role anymore.
I get why it feels like she had an aborted arc. The fact that the character establishment was delayed makes it feel like something shiny and new about Chloe. There's also the fact that the character establishment we get in season two is the kind of character establishment that you'd do if you were setting up for a redemption arc, but that doesn't change the fact that it was all establishment work. None of it was a true arc where we watched Chloe grow. We just saw her put in situations that revealed hidden depths.
Her showing depth is not her growing because when in the world does she show off this supposed growth? She only acts differently in the type of scenes that we've never seen her in before or around characters that we've never seen her truly interact with before. When she's around the established teen characters or in her usual scenes, then she acts the same way that she always has. We never see her be genuinely nice to Marinette or something like that. She's only nice to Ladybug and she's still rude to Chat Noir. That's not character growth! That's character establishment that can then be used to guide character growth!
Same thing goes for the stuff in Despair Bear. We learn that Adrien can push Chloe to be better, but he never does it again and she reverts as soon as he lets her off the hook, so it wasn't character growth! It was just Chloe establishing that she can play nice when she needs to. This means that she could grow if the story chose to take her down that path because we've established that she knows what being nice looks like. Fake it til you make it plot go, go, go! But the plot never went, went, went so meh?
Add in the fact that season one was a bit of a test season with lots of elements that got dropped and the fact that characterization in this show has always been wildly inconsistent from episode to episode and I'm really not seeing a strong argument for Chloe having an intentional arc that somehow got aborted. People just saw the potential for her to have one and argue that potential is the same as an aborted arc when it really, really isn't.
To give an analogy, Chloe's story is like walking into the kitchen and seeing grandma laying out the ingredients for her famous chocolate chip cookies. We get excited because, hey, cookies! Then we come back an hour later and there are no cookies. Nor is there some other sweet that uses the same ingredients. There's just ingredients, sitting unused in their original packaging, making us wonder what the heck grandma was up to. At the same time, she never really started making cookies. She just set out ingredients. They're still there, totally unused, waiting to be made into something, so we can't call them a failed cookie attempt. That implies a level of commitment that was never there. She didn't even say that she was making cookies! We just assumed she was because we, understandably, wanted cookies and wanted to believe that grandma had a purpose to her actions.
#ml writing critical#ml writing salt#chloe deserves better#I did initially think that they were going to redeem Chloe#But they only ever did the initial setup work#They never committed to anything#In fact I though Queen Bee's intro was the writers saying that she wouldn't be redeemed#And that the hero Chloe thing was just a fakeout to make people watch season two#Which is still what I think Queen Bee was#The writers love cheap fakeouts like ending a season on a mass reveal that then goes nowhere#Chloe's writing is par for the course and not anything especially bad compared to the rest of the show#Queen Bee was just an excuse to make you keep watching#Chloe was never getting redeemed or even properly damned#Is that deeply frustrating? Yes#But it's also the most logical read of her story with strong backing in the text itself#I'm not a fan of the conspiracy theories about the writers sabotaging her on purpose#That's just not how this goes#Sorry to disappoint but occam's razor applies to writing too#Bad writing is just infinitely more logical than a bunch of writers purposefully risking their careers to get back at online randos#Chloe stans are just not that important or influential#I can point to so many shows where people came up with insane theories to justify the bad writing and it's just...#I get the desire for complex reasons to explain why a thing you loved failed you but that's just not a logical conclusion in most situation#Nor is it all that healthy to go down those conspiracy rabbit holes. That's just going to damage your mental health#Curious to see the reaction to this one#Remember we're talking about fiction here and play nice please#Formula show problems
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camgoloud · 1 year ago
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he still has his tonsils. by the way if you even care
#sorry this is fucking UNINTELLIGIBLE but unfortunately i’m still on my bullshit about dr. daddyissues. yeah it’s gonna be all month#i am rotating episode 2.8 ‘the mistake’ in my head at breakneck speed. i am gnawing on it i want to swallow it#oh he’s such a lying liar who lies. charming little bastard. would rather die/lose his license than express one wholly unaffected emotion#‘he thinks not giving a crap makes him like house. like it’s something to aspire to’ quick question HOW serious do the daddy issues have to#be before you start latching on to fucking GREGORY HOUSE as a paternal figure and role model. really#even cameron is not down this bad. even WILSON is not down this bad.#the daddy issues of it all are very understandable though because even setting aside whatever went down back in childhood that shit his#father did to him in seasons 1-2 is SO messed up. jesus#imagine traveling all the way across the world to the hospital your son works in for a consult which confirms what you already knew: you’re#going to die of cancer in like 2 months. making a whole point out of stopping by to visit your son. not telling him what’s going on.#letting him spend a whole episode’s worth of time gradually coming to terms with his complicated feelings towards you (complicated on#account of a whole childhood of objectively awful parenting). the kid finally is able to try reaching back out to you. after YOU initiated#the contact in the first place. how do you react? well obviously by telling him ‘oh sorry i actually have to get in a taxi right now’ and#fucking back off to the other side of the world without giving him a chance to actually talk to you at all and resolve any of the emotions#you just dredged up. oh by the way you still haven’t fucking told him you’re about to die and in fact actively mislead him into thinking#he’s going to have the chance to try meeting with you again next time he visits your home country.#especially fucked up given that the whole reason it DID take your son so long to come around THIS time is that he feels like every time#he’s tried reaching out to you in the past you’ve just disappointed him by refusing to put in the effort to meet him there.#And Now Here We Are Again.#rowan what the FUCK is wrong with you. i want to dig you up and kill you again#house md#robert chase#caseyposting
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deus-ex-mona · 6 months ago
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since the new year is just a week away (what even.), remember that time kyhn was almost a thing in honeypre?
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we all know hina’s years-long unrequited love for yukki, but in this event~~~~~~ he found her cute!!! and he said “the boy who’ll become setoguchi’s lover will definitely be happy”!!!!
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a n d he briefly pictured what it’d be like to date hina!!!!!!!! and the wish he made at the shrine was for hina’s happiness (for the rest of her time in high school)…
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also!!!! they pretended to be lovers during this little new year’s date~~~~ they’re so precious~~~~
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anyways!!! happy kyhn new year!!!!
#so like. i think it’s fine to love and support a ship (even if it doesn’t become canon) as long as you mind your manners#like. dont go harassing the creators and/or people who dont support your noncanon ship m y g o sh. i thought that was common sense#i think kyhn shippers these days are pretty respectful for the most part. they make cute art and vibe in peace pretty wholesomely#though it’s not like kyhn was *that* popular back in the day too… most people seemed to be rooting for kotachan#even from the time of the hina movie’s initial release#i get the sense that we all just cried together at the foregone conclusion of kyhn and smiled at the cute moments while we could…#th o u g h not gonna lie i only started supporting kthn after reading the daikirai novel bc he was so hilariously salty in it#and that was. like. in late 2020… so more than 3 years after the hina movie… (<-creature who could *not* let go of kyhn)#so. like. i think given some time the initial flames of angry shipper rage should peter out… perhaps.#so my point is… even though times are hard and copium supplies are low… do not compare kyhn to lhy/yhy they are *not* the same#kyhn had cute bits and hints and stuff like this~~~~ but yhy has never been a thing from the start.#and. like. it was really obvious from the start that kyhn would not become canon… as sad as that truth was at the time#hw loves to release paired songs of couples (the another story and such) and kotachan got the another/triangle story of imasuki#while yukki had nothing after rival sengen for years#(kore seishun doesnt count bc it was a chicosana song for years before the 4th charasong album)#but aaaaaaaaa~~~~~~~~~ i still really really really like the gardening club together as an ot3… ktkyhn…#i still think kthn and kyry should merge into a little love quartet and open a flower shop together#let them all garden together~~~~~ live laugh love kthnkyry…???? there has gotta be a better acronym for that…#just honeypre things
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average-hua-cheng-fan · 2 years ago
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it's actually so important to me that in the memory loss extras xie lian finds out he doesn't have spiritual power anymore (because he's been having sex). it means
he feels comfortable relying on hua cheng
he's able to be 'selfish', and choose what he wants rather than what other people think is correct
he's free from the responsibility of being the most powerful martial god in heaven
he's getting thoroughly dicked down
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front-facing-pokemon · 2 years ago
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#solrock#now *this* is the fucker that the one raid battle NPC had in swsh that everyone hated. including me. he served only to remove lives#fuckin mashing the rock polish button the whole time or whatever it was. doing Nothing Else. i feel like a lot of people who usually did#raids offline had that fucker's name and face memorized. cuz they'd see that they got him and just give up right then and there#at a certain point i feel like offline raids were just not very viable. the NPCs they'd give you to battle with were just so bad#and some of the higher star raids you really needed the extra firepower you just couldn't get from those NPCs#but also they kinda removed a lot of the incentive for joining other people's raids considering your catch chance was lowered by like 9000%#if you weren't the host of the raid. and if you were the host the percentage chance was so high it was basically guaranteed#i don't think i ever ONCE caught a pokémon successfully when i'd joined someone else's raid. and i don't think i ever once failed to catch a#pokémon when i was the host of the raid. it's just. i dunno! i stopped doing raids at a certain point. some people can get a pokémon game#and play it long long after the main story bc they get invested in raids and shit but i just lose interest at a certain point unfortunately#as much as i enjoy the game while i'm initially playing through it#hff. anyway. i'm queueing this up the morning of june 30th‚ aka the day of my first flight in 10 years. so. this won't post until mid july#and i'll have been back for a while by then but for right now‚ me writing these tags‚ i am very Anxious#saur. haha. y'know how it is. have solrock
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bitstitchbitch · 2 months ago
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”why don’t you just move somewhere more liberal / somewhere you’ll have more rights?”
because I grew up here
because my family’s here, and the house I grew up in, and the cabin I grew up going to even before I lived here
because if I leave I want it to be on my own terms, for my own reasons, not because I’ve been forced out
because people everywhere deserve basic human rights, even if you think they’re stupid conservatives
because despite your assumptions and stereotypes, I am not alone here, because I know so many other liberals and progressives here who are fighting to make a better world
because things will never change if no one stays to fight, because I have privileges that let me fight more safely than others
because these are my mountains, my lakes, my deserts, my home
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tiredassmage · 1 year ago
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what type of villain are you?
your honor, i do love a good uquiz diagnosing the diseases and problems of my fictional characters and also i might be slightly procrastinating a final paper. saw this one from @sasslett and simply could not resist :3 quiz link! for those who'd like.
swtor edition first!
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tyr deckard - then let me be evil
You never wanted to hurt anyone, but the world never gave you a choice. You did the best you could with what you had, but every innocent mistake you made was held against you when it counted, every crossroads led you down the wrong path no matter which way you went. No matter what you did, the odds were stacked against you. It wasn't fair, and you are sick and tired of being told what a monster you are for things out of your control. Well, fine. They want a monster? YOU'LL GIVE THEM A MONSTER!
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alucren ellery - the betrayer
You like to do things up close and personal. As personal as you can get. You are an excellent actor, and you do adore putting on a smile knowing your worst enemy, the one you hate the most, doesn't suspect a thing when they tell you their deepest secrets. Your only motivation is revenge, and revenge you shall get. Perhaps you loved them once, long ago, but any fondness for your target you once felt has long since warped and twisted into perverse obsession, laced with malice and venom and seething hatred. Good or evil does not matter to you. All that matters is they get what they deserve.
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leo ashold - the coward
You didn't have another choice, honest! Have these people SEEN what the heroes are up against? It'd end you in an instant, whether that be a lovecraftian abomination with a hold on your soul, a rampaging monster that's destroying more than a hurricane and an earthquake could in one fell swoop, a shadow organization that has tabs on everyone you love and will end them in an instant, or just a particularly grumpy boss that might yell at you if you don't fall in with his excessively tyrannical methods, you can't go risking your neck for the poor saps that think they can stop it. No way, you're staying on the bad guy side, where it's SAFE.
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rhyst delavast - for the greater good
Perhaps you do not believe what you are doing can truly be classified as evil. Perhaps some people will be hurt from the immediate consequences of your actions, but what the masses fail to see is the immense good that will come of your plans. Maybe you act in the name of science, or for your people who have fallen on great tragedy. Maybe you see cracks in a failing system and want to uproot it through chaotic, destructive means to avoid greater tragedy down the line. Maybe you're just in with a bad crowd, but you can't leave them, no matter how unsavory their intentions, because they're your only ticket to your ultimate goals. No matter what, your goals are noble, and you take no joy in wreaking havoc or hurting those in your way, but the evils you partake in are necessary. If you need to play the bad guy to ensure a better future, then you are willing to play that part.
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savosta - no moral compass
You are cold, analytical, and you strive to be as objective as a person of flesh and blood can be. Either don't understand the concepts of good and evil, or you understand it perfectly and think it's a load of bull. Some may call you selfish, some may call you unfeeling, but you're just doing what you believe will yield the best results, plain and simple. Why bother with petty ideals of right or wrong when you can do what will actively help those you give a fuck about? Your goals may be selfish or noble or anything in between, but you will not let anyone make you feel like garbage for going after them. You couldn't care less about what people brand you as. You just care about getting shit done by any means necessary.
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kkujo · 2 years ago
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something i don't see people talking about is the way hyperfixations come in like stages and cycles like it's not just "i'm obsessed with this thing" it's like. euphoria from finding something new and it brings you so much joy and then as that initial dopamine rush wears off you start to get more and more down and feel isolated as you start to realise that no one else cares about it as much as you do and you feel silly for being so into it and the thoughts become repetitive and boring so you get more and more depressed and lonely and then you inevitably lose the hyperfix which leaves you drifting feeling miserable and hopeless until you start the cycle again. idk if i explained this well or if other people will understand but it brings genuine phases of euphoria and straight up depression and this is why i get annoyed when neurotypicals use words like hyperfixation to describe like, an interest. bc it's not. just an interest it becomes who you are and when you lose it it's like losing yourself and you spend so much energy thinking about it that it interrupts your daily life and it's so fucking draining 👍
#like if i see one more nt being like hyperfixation this hyperfixation that SHUT UP!! YOU HAVE AN INTEREST#talk to me when you stay up until 6am every night bc you can't fucking sleep bc ur thinking about it.#talk to me when you can't process emotions in a normal healthy way because you can only relate it back to your hyperfix#paired w madd especially it's IMPOSSIBLE to be normal about shit i swear 2 god because the second i'm upset or lonely it's straight back to#immersing myself in another world and being someone else and not facing my emotions instead letting 'someone else' deal with them#not just negative emotions yk it's anything it's fully immersive to the point i end up not knowing exactly who i am myself bc i'm rarely#myself in my head yk#and it's so isolating#and this is why i get mad when people use these terms lightly bc they don't fucking get it#oh you're hyperfixated? oh you're delusional? you're delulu? watch this#< guy who has delusions that all of his friends secretly hate him bc he's too insane abt xyz media and who feels alone bc no one else is as#into it even though it wouldn't be reasonable to expect them to be#like i'm constantly questioning whether all my friends are secretly against me & finding me annoying anytime i talk about it but it's fine#it's so fucking isolating#i'm not losing my hyperfix yet thank god but i am in the stage of like realisation where the initial euphoria has worn off and i'm like#fuck no one else gets it. no one else is thinking about it like i am. and it's so lonely#< like not to sound like 'i'm 14 and no one gets me' or i'm not like other girls or whatever 😭#it's not me being dramatic i genuinely. know that no one else is spending every waking moment thinking about the things i am the way i do#and it's so incredibly depressing i can't even explain it in a way that will make sense#because i want to talk about it so fucking bad and i can't. even to my friends and gf who always listen i end up feeling annoying#and then i get genuinely delusional not like tiktok girl voice delulu like i genuinely start questioning my entire reality#just if i talk about something a little too much#bc i'm convinced i'm fucking annoying and no one gets it and they're thinking bad things about me#but i know they wouldn't. but it feels like they are#idk#anyways !
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deus-ex-mona · 1 year ago
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yurusanta: the ✨gift✨ that keeps on ✨giving✨
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pussymasterdooku · 2 years ago
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💃🔪👨🏻
👨🏻🔨👩🏻‍🔧
🏃‍♀️🏃🏻‍♀️🏢
#this is an illustration of me enthusiastically committing patricide and then running away#because that is the mood of the day#my mom got her report from her adhd testing and she shared it with me because i am an experienced reader of psych reports#and a longtime adhd haver and knower abouter#and she didn’t want to share it with him because she KNEW he’d be mean and leverage it against her#and she called me because she was sad it’s taken her so long to get diagnosed when she has it actually quite bad#and i was like well it speaks to your strengths that you’ve been successful even as this flew under the radar#and i pointed out her strong score on initiation as something that probably helped disguise other symptoms#since she can start things better than anyone else i’ve ever known with adhd#and he cruises in to say THATS NOT A STRONG SCORE ITS JUST BETTER THAN OTHERS. ITS JUST AVERAGE#and i’m. livid actually#and the way this brings up soooo much of what i hated myself for way back when#and how the ways he does not respect her so closely parallel the ways i thought about myself for years. because i’m SO much like her#and he denies that as a compliment to me and i’m like no i like being like her???? asshole lol#he also had shit to say re her lowish score on emotional regulation and she’s like…if you think living with me is hard imagine BEING me????#anyway we’re going down there in a week we’ll see if he survives or if i have to break out his oversize hammer collection#alhpd#ok actually i updated the pictures. eva’s knifing him i’m beating him w tools and then we run away together. marriage!
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