#the same friend from the other posts was Tim in this case

[aflamboyanceofflamingos]

Bruce: Tim, your turn, what’s your New Year’s resolution?

Tim: It has come to my attention that some people view my absolutely hilarious self deprecating jokes as concerning, so I’ve elected to redirect that hatred…

Bruce, under his breath: thank god

Tim, as he goes into his supervillain pose: To being more mean to others

Jason, as he laughs at Bruce putting his head in his hands: That’s brilliant, I want to change mine

Dick: From ‘Making more people uncomfortable with jokes about my gruesome death’?

Tim: Moving on, I plan on getting a head start on my resolution. Duke, does Ms. Prauss still teach?

Duke: The chem teacher? I don’t have her but from what I’ve heard from my friends she sucks

Steph: SHE DOES! Oh my god she was so sexist- she would yell at the girls for the littlest things but let the boys obviously cheat-

Babs: She was even worse when I had her!

Duke: My French teacher is the exact same way!

Cass: Mr. Lovegood? He’s like the best

Duke: No, he was great, we got a new one and she doesn’t even have a teaching license and we know more then she does-

Luke: That was just like Mr. Goldhorn, could not teach and always stuck me with this one guy who couldn’t get a single lab right- We were in AP Physics

Tam: Wait Tim, Steph, I think she was in your year- Do you know Alana-

Steph/Tim: OH MY GOD-

Bruce, Gordon, and Lucius as they watch their children shit-talk various teachers and classmates from highschool for a full hour: I don’t know why I expected this to go well

Tim, very happy with himself: :)

[a-bad-case-of-the-stephs]

Let’s talk about the significance of how Stephanie Browns first ever appearance is tied directly to a TV broadcast about Batman, and how it perfectly explains why she's such a remarkable character.

Detective Comics #647

The full sentence the TV broadcaster says is “It’s not up to some masked vigilante to protect our citizens …. No matter how good his intentions…No matter how noble his cause”.

This scene asks us to compare the characters of Batman, who the statement is textually about, and Stephanie, who is viewing it and (presumably), being inspired by it. The panel itself seems to encourage use to try to apply these lines to Steph instead of Batman, framing the latter proclamation directly above her head, almost like a text box telling us this information about her. If we apply these lines to her, we can see an idea emerge.

There is this figure, who is not only not necessary, but unacceptable on the face of it, “…No matter how good [her] intentions...” / “…No matter how noble [her] cause…”

The first time we see Stephanie brown, she is being showcased alongside a condemnation, which is followed by her disregarding the message of this broadcast, and appearing for the very first time as Spoiler.

Dismissal and Stephanie ignoring this condemnation continues on to be one of the central facets of Stephanie’s character. In the same introduction arc we already see the dismissal/disregard dynamic established.

Batman and/or Robin tell her to Fuck Off, she chooses not to:

Detective #649

This pattern continues on for some time. She is dismissed by Batman

Robin #16, Robin #26, Robin #50 (1993)

And by Tim Drake/Robin:

Robin #25, Robin #35, and Robin #26 (1993)

And by her own mother:

Robin #71 (1993)

When she finally becomes an official part of the team in 2001, there is a break in this pattern. But, as always, Stephanie is eventually pushed out again:

Gotham Knights #37 (2000)

But, as always, Steph says “fuck that”, and refuses to stop.

Even in the face of dear friends agreeing she should give it up.

Batgirl #38 (2000)

And when Steph is brought in as Robin, she is again dismissed, in this case “Fired” soon after. She doesn’t quit of course, leading to the disastrous events of War Games.

Robin #128 (1993)

And when she comes back from being “dead” she is dismissed again, by Robin.

Robin #182 (1993)

This isn’t every time someone tells her to quit being Spoiler, but instead a showcase of how prevalent the Dismissal/Disregarding dynamic is for her character.

I am working on two other posts, one which will explain in depth Why the way she was “fired” as Spoiler has everything to do with Bruce Wayne’s own hangups and emotionally manipulative quirks and very little to do with her own skill level. The other will analyze why she feels the compulsion to be keep being Spoiler even after having Every reason to quit and being told to do so hundreds of times.

However, for the purposes of this post, all that matters is that this Dismissal/Disregarding dynamic exists and is a huge and reoccurring part of Stephanie’s character.

Whether or not you think she “deserved” how often she was rejected, and whether or not you think her disregarding the rejection was “good” or not doesn’t come into play here.

For now, let’s focus on the implications this dynamic has for her character in a meta sense, as a character who is used and discarded.

A character who is for all intents and purposes, the narrative punching bag. She endures character dismissal and belittling, three separate backstory instances of sexual harassment as a child and teenager, teenage pregnancy, abuse, taking care of a parent struggling with addiction, brutal and (debatably) sexualized torture, character assassination, death, retconned death, and further character assassination until 2009, where she finally gets her own solo comic, and a modicum of respect. The thing that separates the horrible shit Stephanie goes through and the bad things that happen to other characters is only rarely are Stephanie’s struggles treated as significant on their own, and almost always her narrative is used for drama or to prop up Robin Tim Drake’s plot. Very rarely does she get treated with the care and attention her character merits.

But let’s go back to that news broadcast, all the way back in Detective #647. How does she take it, when we are told, when Stephanie is told, first thing, straight out of the gate, plain and simple: No matter how good your intentions, no matter how noble your cause, you is not enough, or you’re too much, or your just not right?

It is met by a triumphantly tragic: “And?”

Stephanie hears from the VERY start the same refrain she will hear for years and years: she is not good enough, she needs to go home, she needs to quit and she does the exact thing she will continue to do every following time she is told this: she puts on the damn Spoiler outfit and she still tries anyway. Again and again.

The next time we see Stephanie Brown after this, the second time we ever see her character, she has donned the Spoiler costume, and she’s got to work. “And?” She seems to say. “As if!” She seems to shout. What a perfectly awe inspiring thing, and what a perfect summary of what makes Stephanie Brown so damn cool.

For better or worse, you cannot keep her down. I love Stephanie Brown so much.

And if you want to read a comic which understands this, which treats the terrific character of Stephanie Brown with respect and love, and which for the first time maybe ever lets her stubborn refusal to give up go her way? Read Batgirl (2009)!!

Batgirl #3 (2008) & Bruce Wayne: The Road Home - Batgirl (2010)

[i-suc-at-art]

DpxDc prompt #2

Full prompt from this idea

Tim and Danny are apart of an online RPG which is basically DND but anonymous and online. (it’s mainly for secret nerds who don’t have anyone irl to play with)

Danny plays as a changeling rogue who will often swipe things from players they don’t like

Tim plays a Variant Human, monk who wields a pole staff (my guy is not subtle) and will often give back the things danny (who’s known as wraith) (Tim goes by Scarlet Redpoll (mainly just Scarlet though)) stole

Rules of the RPG:

Everyone remains under their game handle (so there’s no doxing) NO REAL NAMES

You can interact with other parties who are using the same campaign as you, however when interacting with main story plot your party will go into its own private server

You can have a party of any size however it’s recommended to have a party over 4.. However you can make it with two or three or solo (but that’s just kinda sad..)

There is a chat feature and call feature in the game, however no hate speech, or bigotry

You can’t join a call unless your apart of the party

ofc this doesn’t stop it from happening but that’s not really relevant to the story

There are Dms (dungeon masters) but your team can also just use the computer for your Dm

Your character can be completely customized, and you’ll move around on a map

Ok now to the fun stuff

Danny and Tim (Wraith and Scarlet) have been playing together for about 3 months, and have made a commitment to play every 2 weeks on sunday (ghosts tend to take a break every 2 weeks on sundays (and B forced Tim to take a break from everything including cases every 2 weeks on sunday) Although sometimes each will get pulled away from the game and they’ll have to end early.

Anyways their campaign doesn’t super matter, only that they are online friends. Ok so one day Tim texts Wraith (they use online name bc y'know tim’s like uber famous) that he can’t make it to their session today bc his dad is forcing him to “bond” Aka he’s going to a gala with Bruce and Dick to stop a heist team that has been rampant across socialite and high society events. Wraith tells him it’s alright, and that coincidentally he’s busy too and was just about to cancel.

As Tim surveils everyone he curses Bruce for making him come. Tim had gotten into the habit of getting a night off from everything. He’d also not gotten a chance to do ample research on the guests beforehand because he’d been working on researching the thieves. He’d heard some chatter about the group looking into a possible haunted vahz, that was on display for the night. Tim had been surveying the party staying near the vahz making sure everyone checked out. Dick had texted saying that he’d cornered a possible thieving candidate and that he needed Tim to run an face ID check, on the picture he’d taken. The photo was of a young woman, her red hair caused Tim to think of Babs, but the woman’s simple teal evening dress couldn’t be further from her style. He’d done a quick search of the woman, she seemed to be some sort of rich young socialite, definitely Dicks type.. Her name was Kelly Jankins, no criminal history, or past arrests, she had a couple of parking tickets that were waved from her late teens. But nothing out of the ordinary. Tim texted Dick the information (save for the part about her being Dicks type) before stuffing his phone back into his pocket and moving from his post to go and get a drink. About 20 feet from his post he bumped into a nicely dressed guy, his hair black and suit tailored.. He also wore a Vladco pin on his left breast pocket.

He’d apologized and Tim told him it was no big deal, his eyes were blue.. But he could have sworn they were green when he first looked up. And his voice.. It sounded so familiar. Why did it sound familiar..?

As Tim walked away it hit him like a truck.. Wraith.

—————

Danny, Sam, Tucker, and Jazz had been stealing for some time now, after Danny had been outed as Phantom to the whole town by his parents. Him, Sam, and Tucker had decided to all leave Amity since all of their parents were unaccepting.. Sam’s parents had gone so far as to write her out of their will.. Danny had told her and Tuck to stay in Amity and fix their relationships with their family, but they’d both said ‘that if Danny wasn’t in Amity Park then they didn’t have their family.’ So they left. The three stayed with Jazz for a bit but she was a broke college student that barely had enough money for food and rent. So the three started stealing food.. It was out of necessity at first, and only from big companies, but when Sam got an online invitation to a big gala that was showing off some old artifacts from a rich guy’s private collection, Danny felt a pull toward a particular item from his core. The item belonged to someone in the ghost zone.. and he needed to have it. He needed to return it.

So they stole it. Danny was to be Sam’s plus one as he’s basically a haunted item metal detector. Sam would steal the item and Tuck would turn out the lights and secretly system. Then Danny would get him and Sam out of there. Most of their plans would be similar to this format. Sam would also grift from the other patrons, only stealing from the ones who seemed to have a shit ton of money. Eventually even teaching Danny how to do it too, she’d told him that ‘using his ghost powers were a cop out’ when he brought that up.. and that ‘anyone would be able to feel the chill of it.’ Which Danny was sure that that was untrue.. But he learned how to steal a wallet, or a phone Sam’s way.

Jazz had been against the thefts at first saying that all of these items belonged to the original owner. But soon she was persuaded when Danny told her that they were stealing stolen items. Stolen ghost items. Some of the items even had a ghost core attached to it. So Jazz became their planner, she’d make sure they’d have all the info they needed and that no one got caught.

Danny ends up in jail after being caught trying to lift someone’s wallet.. Jazz was there to legally get him out and pay the bail. Tucker got caught in a backroom of a place they were stealing from. ‘Oh yeah that’s her brother who would often get himself trapped in closets looking for the bathroom.. She apologizes profusely..’

So when Tucker had found their newest item, a haunted vase that had a shit ton of death and destruction attached to it, Jazz had thought up the plan. She’d heard whisperings that Vlad had gotten invited to the party but Danny was going to go in his place since Vlad would never go. Then they had a plan. A plan they were meant to stick to, until someone ran her face and Danny started being followed. So they abandoned the vase opting to get out of there instead of getting caught.

[catlantern]

By the Sound of Your Voice

TIM DRAKE/FEM!READER

cross-posted from ao3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/62679460

SUMMARY: As long as his love echoes both in your mind and in your heart, and even after life rips you away from each other, you will find Timothy Jackson Drake.

"You save everyone," you had told him once, on the near-empty rooftop of Gotham General not too long ago. "But who saves you?"

"My friends," was Tim's answer then. "And family."

He didn't think much of his answer back then because it was the truth. Tim knew he could always rely on them. He trusts that his friends and family will always have his back.

On that same rooftop, you had looked up at him shyly. "Guess you won't ever need saving from me then, huh?"

Behind his mask, his eyes narrowed. Tim glanced over at the city skyline but found his gaze moving back to you. He felt his heart pounding, cold cheeks flushing.

"Are you kidding?" He said teasingly before gesturing over to your teal scrubs. "I'm going to eventually need your expertise; the streets of this city are highly dangerous, you know?"

"Expertise. Uh-huh, " You raised an eyebrow, smirking. "Well, I guess I'll just have to be ready for when that day comes."

"I can rest easy, then."

"Hey, now," you had warned him. "Don't make this an excuse to be reckless. You've got to be careful out there, you hear?"

Why didn't he listen to you?

If there was one thing Timothy Jackson Drake has always been proud of, it was being a brilliant strategist. He was always ten steps ahead of the enemy and, if ever caught in a pickle, would always have backup plans labeled from A to Z.

So why now?

Why now, when you needed him most, did he fail?

Why fail now?

"It should have been me." He looked at you, your limp body cradled in his arms. "It should have—"

His voice broke.

"Oh god, please," he cried, burying his face on your shoulder. "Please, I can't… I can't lose you… not you… no… please…"

All those nights spending time with you on the hospital rooftop came back to him. When Tim wasn't working on a case, he would often swing by during patrol, and you would always be there. Dressed in your scrubs and oversized hoodie to protect you from the cold, you were there waiting for him with a warm cup of hot chocolate.

You didn't know who he was behind the mask, yet you still took care of him simply because you could. He had asked you why, why help a complete stranger? You didn't even hesitate when you told your reason.

"Why not?" You had asked him, your gaze above the skyline as you watched the early December snowfall. "I'm a doctor, remember? Saving strangers is basically in my job description."

Tim takes off his cowl to look at you properly. You were still bleeding from your head wound and the bullet hole on your stomach. Besides that, you almost fell to your death, and he couldn't bear to think what would have happened if Dick hadn't caught you.

"Red Robin."

Tim could hear the sirens in the distance, but he could not bring himself to leave you. The sounds brought him back to the night he confessed to you. He had made the decision to tell you who he was underneath the cowl.

It was early February, mere days away from Valentine's Day. He had lamented how cheesy it felt that he had chosen that month to confess, but he knew it couldn't wait. You had told him of your plan to move to another state, and if he didn't tell you how he felt, he was certain he would never get to.

You had looked at Tim like he was crazy when he peeled away his mask without forewarning. Then it had registered to you that he had shown you his identity in broad daylight (sure, you were on the rooftop, but still). You shrieked before slapping the mask back on his face.

"Are you insane?!" The conversation had to stop there after Signal flew past, then, chasing a stolen armoured vehicle. The GCPD was not too far behind them.

He felt Dick's hand land firmly on his shoulder. "Red Robin, we have to go."

"I'm not leaving her."

"Look, I've tied up the Riddler—"

Tim froze.

He could feel Dick's heavy gaze on him, watching him closely as he laid you gently back on the ground. The docks were quiet that evening, devoid of any activity after he and Nightwing had taken down Edward Nygma and his hired hand. His eyes fell on the shipping container you had fallen from earlier, two stories high from where you were now.

"Tim, don't—"

He kicked his brother in the jaw, knocking him down.

The Riddler had kidnapped you to get to Tim—no—to Red Robin. Then he beat you with his cane. And, as if that wasn't enough, he shot you. The impact had pushed you over the edge of the shipping container.

He and Nightwing had just arrived as you fell.

Tim hadn't been fast enough. But Dick was.

Still, that didn't erase the pain the Riddler had inflicted on you.

He was on the rogue before Nightwing could even recover from the kick. He punched the villain once. Twice. Thrice.

"Red Robin—"

He growled at the arms suddenly around his neck, restricting his airway. “Hood…”

A gas mask was suddenly forced over his face, and Tim found himself struggling more.

“No!"

He couldn't fight against Red Hood even if he wanted to, not when he was now being forced to breathe in oxygen and nitrous oxide. Faintly, he heard Dick's admonishing tone and Jason's sardonic one. On the verge of losing consciousness, his gaze found you.

Tim reached out to you.

Before darkness engulfed him completely, he swore you were reaching out to him too.

You two fell in love in the middle of May.

Azure skies and soft clouds painted the heavens with bright hues. Verdant parks and clean streets livened the city, no doubt the reasons why Poison Ivy has not made an appearance for months. Above the looming skyscrapers, birdsong joined the tumultuous sound of Gotham.

Among those birds, one robin fell.

No one had clipped his wings, thankfully. This time, Tim simply chose to fall. Why shouldn't he, when you were there to catch him lovingly?

He had picked you up for your first date. It had been the first time you saw each other wearing something other than your usual attire. Gone were your scrubs, often rumpled due to working sixty hours a week, and, in their place, was a maroon pinafore dress with what appeared to be sunflowers stitched into it.

Tim had looked down at his own clothes, a blue button-up (because everyone, even Damian, had insisted it brought out the colour of his eyes) and dark jeans, and he somehow felt oddly underdressed.

"I love your shirt; it makes your eye colour pop." And just like that, Tim decided to use more blue shirts.

You two had decided on a picnic date, and Tim had pulled out all the stops. He had prepared the food himself, under Alfred's careful and strict instruction, making sure to have all your favourites. That experience definitely made Tim appreciate Alfred all the more.

When Tim had found himself lying on his back a few hours later, staring at the clouds with you, he wondered idly why he felt light. He glanced at you and found you already staring right at him. He felt your hand grasp his softly.

Tim had realized then why he felt light, like he was falling.

He held your hand tightly in his.

"Tim," a familiar voice murmurs his name. "Timothy."

Tim gasped.

Stalactites and bats greet him. He blinked.

"Tim, sweetie?" The voice says again. "Guys, he's awake! Tim’s awake!"

There was a bunch of loud noises, and then Tim finally saw your face. "Tim?"

He felt your hands cup his cheeks, and, despite feeling groggy, he lifted his hands to cradle yours. "I thought I'd lost you."

“Tim…”

"I saw him shoot you," he cried, moving to press his forehead on yours. "And then you fell over the edge. If I had just gotten there faster—"

You silence with a kiss. It was soft and unhurried before you pulled away again. "You didn't lose me, Tim."

For a moment, he believed he did. Seeing you lying motionless on the floor, he really thought he had lost you forever. It felt like his chest had caved in and that you had taken his heart with you.

"But even if you did," you breathed the words against his lips. "I promise to find you by the sound of your voice, wherever you are. In every lifetime."

For as long as his love echoes both in your mind and in your heart, and even after life rips you away from each other, you will find Timothy Jackson Drake.

[4sh-n4]

Based on ^^^ that post (kind of)

Dick and Bernard don't get along. Well, they don't hate each other but they're not best friends. They're barely friends at all. Vaguely connected acquaintances through their mutual love for Tim at most. So why is it that Dick exits his bedroom one morning (in his personal apartment!! In Bludhaven!!!) to find out that his little brother's boyfriend has set up camp in his kitchen and seems to be attempting to conduct a coup over the pathetic electrical appliances in his kitchen that he had refused to replace when he first moved in as rebellion against Bruce's need to control every aspect of his life and then had just...not gotten around to doing it because he barely ever had the energy or time to cook for himself anyways.

Dick must've made some noise of surprise because Bernard turns around from where he's currently trying to curl the wire of the toaster into different angles and shapes in hopes that it'll turn on. Bernard nods at him before turning back to his task like this is a regular situation (which it decidedly is not!! Dick thinks with a tinge of hysteria).

"What are you doing in my kitchen?"

"Making breakfast? Or well, lunch technically but they're breakfast foods and also the first meal of the day for both of us. So, brunch? I was gonna make eggs and toast but I don't think I'm going to be able to wrangle your toaster under submission anytime soon so how do you feel about pancakes?" Bernard doesn't even have the decency to turn around as he answers. Or wait for a response clearly, since he's already going through Dick's cupboards for ingredients, abandoning the failed toaster to the side.

"Uh, the flour is behind that box. Yeah, right there. How did you get in here? How did you even know where I live? And again, why are you in my house??" Dick would maybe put up more of a protest usually, but he's had a really bad time for the last couple of...forevers really, so he's decided that his new policy (decided two seconds ago) is to never refuse free pancakes from anyone. And he's not an idiot, he's stolen Tim's leftovers enough times to know that these pancakes are about to be quite possibly the best things to greet his tongue in the last week. So instead of knocking out the blonde in front of him and dumping him on Tim's doorstep, he's deciding to be the bigger person. The more mature person. Who really wants some pancakes.

"Did you know the Riddler really likes pancakes? I found out that one time he'd decided to set up his base of operations in the back of that Waffle House on main street that closed down 2 months after it opened. Probably due to the aforementioned criminal activities actually. I was looking for Condiment King's cousin, you know the one that's been stealing all the dessert sauces in Gotham to feed them to Killer Croc as some sort of weird courting ritual even though everyone knows that Killer Croc only has eyes for Ratman since they cohabitate in the Gotham sewers? I made a video on it and everything for my youtube, complete with powerpoints. That's why there's a city-wide shortage of the good strawberry sauce and I have to travel all the way to Metropolis to get some even though theirs does not taste the same, no matter what Tim says. Don't listen to Tim, he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to dessert sauces. Other than marmalade, he's got a pretty good tongue for that. He's got a good tongue for other things too, but don't tell him I said that, I've been trying to convince him that he needs to practice with it more and I think it's finally starting to work. Or Tim is just humouring my request to kiss him more, I'm not actually sure yet."

Dick blinks as he tries to process everything that he's just heard. He blinks a few more times, just in case that improves his comprehension and then comes to the conclusion that no, whatever Bernard is talking about makes no more sense after sitting with it for a few more seconds and also that he's currently sharing a kitchen with a madman. His brother is /dating/ a madman, oh god.

Bernard has somehow managed to find everything he needs in Dick's kitchen (how? even Dick doesn't know where he'd put the chocolate chips, he'd lost them after hiding them from Damian) . He's also too chipper for...12:30 in the afternoon. Dick needs him to take a step back and give him a few more hours to wake up on his day off, please and thank you.

Dick thinks about addressing Bernard's inane chatter but decides he has bigger things to worry about and instead says, "That answered exactly none of my questions."

He knows for a fact that he checked his locks before going to bed, and his door has Wayne manufactured (and Batman enhanced) protection that should not be able to be broken by a civilian. So if he's got a security issue, he'd like to know about it before the Joker or someone decides that Dick Grayson would make the perfect target for their next scheme.

Bernard sighs and turns to give him a put out look like he's not the one currently standing in the kitchen of someone he barely knows and is being highly inconvenienced by Dick's perfectly valid questions about his safety. Dick simply stares back silently. He does seem to realise that Dick isn't willing to just let this go, so faces the stove before actually answering his questions instead of deflecting.

"Well. If you must know, my darling boyfriend is away on urgent 'Wayne Enterprises business' in Jump City," Bernard makes sure to add the quotation marks with his fingers and turns again, this time looking at Dick dryly as if telling him just exactly what he thinks of that lie. Dick jolts in his chair, eyes widening slightly before he gets his facial features under control, feeling slightly more awake all of a sudden. As far as he knows, Bernard should have no knowledge of the family's... extracurricular activities.

Luckily (or unluckily), he isn't given the chance to respond before Bernard continues, "I heard you had the day off from Duke who was complaining about how you haven't been visiting recently and got bored enough alone that I decided to drop in. I figured your windows are probably less impenetrable than your doors to account for late night visits, similar to Tim, except you also live too high up for anyone to get up without help." (At this, Bernard rolls his eyes). "So I waited until your downstairs neighbours- that lovely couple, Belinda and Mark- left the house for date night before picking the lock for their house instead and climbing up the windows for only one floor instead of five."

What the FUCK. Where did Tim find this guy?? Does Bruce know that his son's boyfriend is a maniac? Dick gapes at the man opposite him, mouth opening and closing like a goldfish. He runs his hand through his hair a few times. At least that answers the question about whether or not Bernard knows about his night time activities (HOW?).

"Okay. Okay. Wow. How do you know my downstairs neighbours?" That's definitely not the biggest concern right now, but Dick honestly and truly has no idea where to even start with the rest of it so this seems like a good point to address.

"I helped Belinda carry her groceries yesterday because Mark was at the vet with the stray cat that they're thinking of adopting because they've been feeding her for a few months."

[brucewaynehater101]

I’m absolutely obsessed with this prompt of Tim being older than Jason and/or only becoming Robin when he's an adult.

Never has someone seen him and cared about him so much. But he sees how much Bruce mourns. He isn't mourning his sidekick, he is mourning his son.

And Tim will never be his son, will never get the same affection because Batman only made him Robin BECAUSE it wouldn't hurt him as much if he'd lose Tim. Since he isn't a family member, like his parents or Jason or Dick.

And Tim HAS a place of his own, true. But it's empty. It doesn't have anything personal. No family pictures, nothing that shows him that someone cares about him or he cares about someone as much like Bruce cares about his family. Especially with Jason's memorial case in the Batacave

I need fanfics with this. I have to check ou the "Tim joins the Batfam late" tag again

Post in question: https://www.tumblr.com/goodoldfashionedengineer/758997334790225920/after-finishing-batman-arkham-knight-i-looked?source=share

Link here for others

Thank you so much for providing a link.

I have seen some stuff theorizing that Tim was older than Jason in the Arkham Knight game as well.

Which, with your take, makes the game that much more tragic for Tim. Robin literally says, "You haven't done that in a while," when Bruce calls him Jason. Painful as hell.

As far as AU, I'm not a fan of Tim becoming "Robin" as an adult because I see Robin as more of a teenager's role. It helps them to mature into adult vigilantes.

HOWEVER, I fuck so hard with Tim Joins the Batfam Late fics and I can kind of combine those with your idea.

So, Tim is older than Jason, and Jason dies. Let's make Tim seventeen when Jason dies.

Jason dies in April, so Tim is eighteen when he tries to reach out to Bruce to get him to stop beating himself and all of Gotham up.

He's an adult, so he has more power. Bruce can't tell Tim not to become a vigilante. Tim has blackmail and Bruce can't threaten to call Tim's parents (who, for the sake of it, are dead. He got emancipated at 16).

Since Tim isn't a child even though he's younger than Bruce's eldest son, Bruce doesn't need to parent him. Tim is a colleague. He's not family.

They grow to care about each other like good work friends, but Tim's death wouldn't be the same as losing a son (at least for a long while).

Jason, when he returns, is upset about being replaced. However, Tim is an adult (so none of that "child soldiers" spiel), and he never took up the Robin mantle. He became his own identity.

Tim's relationship with the Bats is also different than Jason's was. For comparison sake, it's mix between Huntress or Oracle where Bruce works with them, but they are also highly independent from him. It's also more apparent that Tim undergoes a caretaker role in this. He's the one to patch Bruce up, lug his tired ass to his bed, demand he eats, and assists him with WE work. Because Tim's an adult, Bruce allows himself to lean/rely on him more (even though eighteen is barely an adult at all).

Tim doesn't live at the Manor. Sometimes, when it's really late and he's exhausted from helping Bruce, he'll catch four or so hours in a guest bedroom. Otherwise, he's trekking back to his bare apartment that only has a few photos of his parents and/or friends.

As Bruce gets better, Tim spends less time with Bruce to pursue his own cases/work. Their relationship is mostly about what Bruce needs from Tim and not what Tim needs from Bruce.

Then Jason comes back. He's angry or whatnot, but he's got the vibes wrong. He thinks that Tim is another annoying older brother he has to deal with. Thus, Jason is the first one to admit, sarcastically, that Tim is family :)

[itsss4t4n]

How long is Forever? - Harry Hook x daughter of alice in wonderland

Headcanons but the longer version of this post:

a/n: this is based more on tim burtons aiw adaptation as it is the only one that i know, and i might have misremembered some of the story/ characters so i apologize if its inaccurate to wonderland or its characters in any way. I got way to invested in creating the character and story and almost forgot that that wasnt the point. At some point i think the character just completely changes and i low key hate it. Im really bad at writing headcannons instead of full fledged fics.

Trigger warnings: fighting, she /her pronouns used, slight angst toward the end but happy ending, not proofread

-being alices daughter you are considered kind of weird by the aks, (think luna lovegood), you are kind of dreamy and constantly in your own thoughts but you still have a very strong own opinion on everything. You say what you think even if others might not like that. 

-You also have a very different sense of style than most girls in auradon. You played alot with different colours and textures always looking slightly crazy (you took inspiration from your godfather, the mad hatter). Your blonde hair was cut to a short messy bob with short bangs, and always changing coloured streaks throughout.

-you dont have the same view of good and bad as most others , and you dont think the vks should be judged by what their parents did and immediately try to befriend them and continuesly defend them

-when mal runs away to the isle you insist on joining the other vks and ben, as you do well in new and different invironments and later because you are an incredible sword fighter, your mother having thought you all she knows, just in case you ever needed to fight a jabberwookie type beast yourself.

-Due to your personal style not being very auradon, you didnt really have to disguise as much as ben when going to the isle. 

-On the isle you felt surprisingly comfortable, as you liked the weird and almost liminal athmosphere that it had 

-the first time you met harry was right after bens kidnapping, when harry came to tell you all about it.

-Harry has this theatrical almost a little eccentric way of talking and moving, which intruiged you pretty quickly. Of course , You didnt like or trust him, he did just kidnap one of your best friends, but you were intruiged non the less.

"And who is this little lassy?"

You told him your name with a glint of interest and mischif in your eyes. "Daughter of Alice in Wonderland."

"How interesting."

"I was just thinking the same thing. Whats your Name?"

"Harry Hook." He introduced himself with adramatic bow, before making fun of jay and barking at carlos.

- The other three had watched the interaction in confusion and wonder. They knew you were a little odd but seeming this confortable with harry after knowing what he did to ben?

"What was that?!" 

"What?" 

"Dont be nice to hook! He just kidnapped your best friend!"

"yea.. But he is quite interesting." And as an afterthougt: "and kind of pretty dont you think?"

"NO! Concentrate please. He is the enemie alright?!"

"Yea whatever, lets go tell mal about this shit."

-You go with Mal and evie to see dizzy, and instantly get along.

-Later while Mal and Uma are talking (singing), you cant help your eyes from glancing over at harry every few seconds. He did look good, with his red coat, the old silver jook on his left hand, and the messy black eyeshadow around his striking blue eyes.

"He is really beutiful dont you think?" That question was mostly directed towards evie who just shot you a dissapproving look. "I'm just saying. purely aesthetically."

-You simply shrugged and watched the situation continue to unfold, swordhand on the hilt of your sword at your side. When the fight breaks out you stand against harry. For better of for forse.

"Hello Pretty boy." You raise you swordand get into a defensive position.

"Wonderland girl."

-You kept making little comments about his looks and his sword fighting which he of course returned in his own flirty way. You quite enjoyed going back and forth like that. Witty comments, smirks and flirty smiles, and fighting more for show at this point instead of actually trying to beat each other. Trying to make this surprisingly pleasant moment last as long as possible.

-until you heard an urgend shout of your name from Mal.

"Sorry in advance." In a quick movement you snatched harrys hook and threw it down into the water. Before a shoked Harry can jump after it you catch his arm and talk to him in a slightly hushed voice.

"I really hope this wasnt our last meeting pretty boy." Before running off with the others.

-You dont see each other again until Audrey turns evil, but you do still think about harry. Is it stupid considering you met like twice and he was you enemy? Yea. Did you care? not really. He was georgeous, funny, good with a sword. Your dream guy. Except for the fact that he was supposedly your enemy. but then again when had you ever cared about that kinda stuff.

-His black lined blue piercing eyes were burned into your brain.

-In the six months until you saw him again you had become mal and bens unofficial bodyguard, spening most of your time with them or with evie, your sword has taken permanent residence at your side, only taking it of to sleep or shower and even then it was always in grabbing distance. Mals paranoia about uma had actually started to get to you.

-You are at evies house when audrey shows up and spells mal. You join them in going back to the isle to retrieve hades ember.

-When your bikes get stolen you cant help but smile at the sight. Yea its shitty but he is still beautiful.

"Pretty boy!"

He drawls you name in his scottish accent and you mentally swoon.

"Thats my bike!"

"Oh yea? Come and get it back then." Before driving of.

-You run after them (except mal and celia ofc),and at one point you split upbecause the boys on the bikes did so. You follow harry and when the others are out of sight he slows to a stop. You catch up to him with a grin.

"Nice to see you again Hook. I was hoping we would meet again."

"I was too Lassie."

-The next 10-ish minutes are filled with flirty banter and tales of what happened in the last six months. It felt like you've known each other for years (as clichee as that sounds). 

-You almost forgot why you were there until you heard jay shouting your name.

"Where are you, Mal got the thing come on."

You quickly turn to Harry again.

"Go! Before they see you and make it a whole thing."

"What bout your bike?"

"Keep it pretty boy, i doubt the others got theirs back so it would be weird if i did."

With a last sly grin harry leans towards you "I will see you again very soon." 

Before you could question what 'very soon' meant, he had already driven of. 

Just in time because Jay and the others turned the corner behind you.

"There you are! What are you doing? come on!"

"Sorry. Was chasing after the bike." You Give them a small smile before walking past them. "You coming?"

-To say you were surprised when harry and gil jumped through the barries after them would be an understatement.

"Pretty boy?!"

"'ello Darling. we're just coming for a wee visit" 

-You tried , just like evie, to get the two groups to work together. Harry mostly walked next to you or Uma. At some point you hung back so he culd walk in between you and doesnt have to kep switching. He caught up with uma but still kept the constant flirts towards you up.

-Everyone was really confused on why you two seemed so good and almost comfortable around each other, not to mention the flirting. Evie was the only one who knew of your little crush so she send you a few knowing smirks.

-During the knight fight you and harry fought as a team. Incedibly well might i say. 

-You were somewhat enthusiastic about evies icebreaker idea, enjoying the idea that the two groups could finally work together.

"Harry great accent."

"Shes right. It is a good accent."

-The flirting just wouldnt stop, comments thrown at each other, bumping shoulders while walking, even brushing your hands against each others on occasion. You had joined the boys in looking for ben.

"To make sure jay and harry dont kill each other."

-Gil doing the icebreaker and bonding with jay. 

meanwhile you and harry in the background:

"We should do that icebreaker pretty boy."

"oh yea?"

"Yea. You've got really pretty eyes."

"And you are really good with a sword lass." His hook just slightly gracing your cheek before something in gil and jays conversation sparks his interest.

-When finding ben you had immediately pushed harry behind you and unsheathed your sword out of instinct. Jay has to pull both of you out of bens way because both of you got distrcated by how close you were standing to each other. After making sure ben was alright you made sure harry was too.

(instead of flirting with jane he flirts with you)

"Well well well, thank you for trying to protect me there darling." The hook was under you chin this time.

"No problem pretty boy." You smirk back.

Ben had his little freak out. Jay and carlos had one too for slightly different reasons.

"when did this happen? you and hook?"

You just shrugged and started walking off.

The boys just looked at eachother thouroghly confused.

-After everyone reuniting and you secretely updating evie on the harry situation you all made your way to fairy cottage. When you found chad you had to half hide in harrys shoulder to hide your laughter because god was it good to see chad taken down a few pecks like that.

-Then Mal dropped the bomb. Closing the barrier forever. You couldnt believe it. You were always a firm believer in the vk programm. And you had honestly hoped that even if harry etc were send back, they would get out someday, or you might go visit them. You considered them freinds at that point. But now that wasnt possible.  You tried to comfort harry and uma in some way but it was to no avail.

"Im so sorry you guys... I didnt know." You had tears in your eyes yourself.

"Dont worry about it Darling. Its nae your fault." Placing his hand, his actual hand, on your cheek for a second, to wipe away the tear that had fallen. Before he walked of with uma.

"Harry....."

Mal was shocked to see your tears at the fact that harry was leaving. she had absolutely no idea this was a thing. It wasnt really. you didnt have enough time for it to actually become a thing. You watched harry and uma leave before evie walked up to you to hug you. 

She talked to mal but you didnt want to listen.

suddenly there was a bright light before it went dark for a bit. When you came to again, Mal was gone. It didnt take you guys long to piece together what must have happened. so you went to find mal.

-You and harry were both incredibly relieved to see that the other was okay. *cue big hug and an almost kiss that turned into a kind of awkward cheek kiss before another hug * 

-Harry announcing that he is actually going back to the isle felt like another punch in the gut. Again that sounds dumb considereing how little you actually knew each other but you didnt care. 

-Harry and you talked before he left. He gave you one of his rings "so you wont forget me darling". So you give him one of yours "then dont you forget me either". *cue more crying and hugs, between all of you *

-Mal announcing that the barrier will be taken down during the engagement party was the best thing that couldve happened to you at that point.

"Looks like you get a chance with your pretty boy after all." Evie.

Uma to harry on the isle: "Now you can get your pretty girl, pretty boy." While bumbing his shoulder.

As soon as you could spot eachother on the bridge you ran into each others arms.

-Kith

-like a lot of em

-Your friends from both sides were incredibly happy for both of you.

[straycalamities]

sometimes i see people say (more commonly in regards to shipping bray but this isn't a bray-defense post, it's a very general gripe) that it's hard for them to picture brian's dynamic with characters because "he had like five scenes"

and that leads into my pet-peeve of people treating the brian and hoody situation as the same as tim and masky. regardless of if you subscribe to the Masky-Is-An-Alter theory or not, it's definitely not the same. if you even just look at it in the way that the operator clearly affected every single character differently. from alex-to tim-to brian-to jay-to jessica.

the thing is...hoody is still brian. there's a lot of traits of brian's you can still read in hoody's choices and behavior even if they've been warped in some cases or the intent is different in others. if you follow the strings back, you can get a clue, even through hoody, how brian thomas was himself

the operator didn't brainwash or change him to something he wasn't capable of being, a different person entirely. the operator doesn't work like that. the operator twists and pulls out or pushes back what's Already There. it messes with your perceptions and relies heavily on isolation and paranoia so you get the extreme cases with people who maybe didn't even have a lick of paranoia or trust-issues or problems making friends.

that's not even a theory. we literally see it happen over time in alex and jay.

that's not to say that who the operator makes them become is 100% them, like clearly there's interference there, but i am saying it's all based on existing traits, flaws, priorities, etc.

so hoody is still brian, he's just a very very wounded and broken version of brian pushed to limits he never dreamed he'd have to hit. to say brian only got 5 scenes is just incorrect. he was a major supporting character the entire time and even got an entire comic issue (that ALSO heavily reinforces my point in my opinion. that's why i didn't reference it. 1. to avoid spoilers but also 2. because you can find all the clues even in the youtube webseries. just like lots of other things about brian that 3.5 just makes obvious and spells out But The Clues Were Already There) (the same as alex. it's just alex never gets another name. he's alex the whole time so then we get the OPPOSITE problem of people assuming operatorified alex is how alex always was and that's not true either. you can, of course, still see aspects of himself in there, but it's the same thing. while it's based off pieces of him, he's still being coerced and pressured by an outside force <- clarifying so it doesn't come off like i'm villainizing alex as a person because i'm not. nothing's as easy as that in marble hornets and that's why i love it. but that also still can mean both alexs are alex. and both brian and hoody are brian. but brian also resists the influence so alex got Full Operator'd compared to brian)

[adkawariatka]

So it’s a follow up of my previous post. it’s Tim perspective on how Damian changed and his reactions to them.

Tim wos tired but that’s nothing new. He should have slept at least two hours at night, but what’s done is done. He sits at the kitchen table sipping his third espresso and watching his siblings. When Bruce enters he looks at those present and seems to count. Ha that might be needed Tim thinks. After third attempt of his murder by demon brat that’s expected. Speaking of demons… Tim hasn’t seen Damian outside patrol for quite long. Not that he is complaining not having constant threat to your life around is nice but demon still should be at manor. Maybe Tim missed something when he wos looking into his case for last two weeks…

-Does someone saw Damian in manor lately?

When no one answers the question Tim sits straighter. That’s bad news really bad news.

-he wos at patrol tonight but outside from that no.

Dick answers. Well it’s Sunday at 10:00 in the morning. It’s not impossible for Damian to go out but where? It’s not as he has any friends. Tim snorts to his thoughts. He imagined demon brat talking to other kids „incompetent idiots that’s not how you hold katana!!!”. So no he doubts that possibility. He can see Bruce’s jaw tighten in worry. Ok so they need to find the brat. Before they can get serious about any action they hear front doors open and Alfred greetings

-Good morning Master Damian

And the demon enters kitchen as if nothing wos wrong. As if going out of manor as 10 year old alone wos acceptable. He greets father then Dick and to his suprise him also. And tries to go to the living room but Bruce stops him by putting a hand on his shoulder.

- where were you?

Tim winces it sounds more as a growl than a perfectly civilized question. Bruce parenting skills are shit as always. He knows that it’s out of worry but still….

-I wos on a walk

Damian is perfectly calm. That’s good. Tim is too tired for furious demon right now.

- who give you permission to go out without supervision?

And Damian watches him carefully. Tim can see him taking slow deep breaths. Huh, weird.

-you told me to make friends so I am working on it.

Tim almost spits his coffee. Working on making friends!? He hopes that any children that Damian chased with his katana are unharmed.

- you shouldn’t go out without anyone knowing where you are going. You need permission

-I am not a kid I can take care of myself!

There is the demon that Tim knows.

-it’s not a matter of being a kid or not. I need to know where you are as your guardian I am responsible for your safety

-tyt it’s pretty clear that I can protect myself

-but in this family you don’t need to. We have different rules.

And Tim saw something that he never saw before. Damian hestitated. Took a deep breath and asked like a civilized human being without anger or insults

- then if I inform you where I am going and when I will be back I can go?

Tim can’t believe it. Demon brat is… talking. With words like normal human being. Tim checks his coffee. He really needs to sleep more. Halucinations are bad sign.

-

But sleeping didn’t change the fact that Damian acted weird. After school and patrols he disappeared for „walks”. Tim knew something wos going on. But Bruce let it go. Damian started to inform him where he went and for how long and it actually checked. Dick even checked his location and everything lined up. But that wosnt the end of strange behaviors from Damian. The demon brat often glanced at Tim when they were in the same room. Not stared but glanced trying to be subtle. Well like for assassin training he wosnt so stealthy as he probably thought. Tim expected another attack soon. He started to carry battarangs with him around the house. when he started doing that and Damian caught on he did even weirder shit.

Imagine one evening when they were all in the living room and Damian enters. Of course with his katana that he keeps with himself at all times in the manor becouse Bruce forbidden him outside of hause and procedes to lock eyes with Tim and leaves his weapon near the door. Tim is staring at Damian as if he grew second head and he isn’t the only one.

From that time whenever Damian is in the same room as Tim he leaves his katana close to the door. Tim smells a trap. Whatever the brat is doing it can’t be good. Even if that gesture is kind of reassuring…. Tim is no fool. He will not be swayed by nice words or acknowledgment of his work or even leaving weapons outside of range of Damian’s hand.

One day after patrol, when Tim started to get ready for going to his room. To work of course, becouse the sharp eyes of Alfred didn���t leave him for a moment and distracted him from his case. He realised he is not alone. Damian followed him like shadow. Tim didn’t speed up his walking to not let the demon realize that he knew about his presence. Slowly he closed fingers around his batarang to make sure he will par first blow of katana. They were before Tim’s room when Damian started to speak

- Drake can we talk?

That sounded off. Damian didn’t talk he stabbed. More often Tim than anything else. But he sounded hestitant…. Well he has a weapon and when they enter his room they will be on his ground. He will know environment and hidden weapons there. He will have huge adventage when the fight will barek out.

-Sure why not

Tim let’s them in. He allows Damian to enter first. That way he has his back to Tim it’s safer that way. When the door closes Damian turns around Tim grips batarang in his pocked and waits for the start…. And nothing. Damian stands in the middle of his room locks his eyes with Tim’s and glances at his hand in his pocked. In the well lighted room it’s no mistakening that shape for anything different than a weapon. And then his guest procedes to holds his hands up palms to Tim in universal sign of no violence. Tim is dumbfounded. Damian clears his throat and starts:

- Drake I have been doing some reaserch… and it turned out I wos…. Misinformed. My past actions towards you were caused by my lack of knowledge and I shouldn’t have attacked you. I will not repeat that mistake again. I mean no harm to you…. Anymore

- What? Misinformed?! You stabbed me! Multiple times!

- I am aware Drake And I…

- no if you think that I will buy this story then You are delusional and

- I am sorry Timothy!

Damian cut him off. And Tim shut his mouth and looked at Damian. Really looked. He wos fidgeting and he actually flinched when he raised his voice. He stared at the floor and squized his hand so hard that it must have hurt. Tim stared in shock.

- Holy shit you are serious

Damian raised his gaze at Tim. And nodded. For once he looked as 10 year old boy. God Tim wos a dumbass. Damian WOS 10 years old. And lately he tried to be non-threatening towards Tim. Every weird action linked into a pretty clear picture. it looks like Damian finally realized his actions were wrong and came to Tim…. And Tim shouted at him.

- I ok let’s make things clear you realized you were wrong after what 8 months of leaving under one roof together? And…

Damian started to shrink in on himself and Tim stopped himself shit he wos doing it wrong. He crouched to be at Damian’s eye level and started again.

- No sorry first things first thank you for telling me. I appreciate the gesture. And lack of weapons for last month… It’s good to know you won’t try to kill me anymore. I don’t think I can just forget of what you did but… we can try to work it out. What do you say?

-that sounds reasonable Timothy.

Wow its so weird to agree with the brat… no Damian. Wait did he call him by his name!? While Tim wos trying to organize his thoughts Damian murmured something that caught his attention, that probably wosnt for Tim to hear.

-he wos right…

- It wos draining patrol I won’t take more of your time Drake. Good night

-who wos right?

Tim wosnt going to let that go. Someone talked Damian into doing this and he needs to know who. Dick wos unsuccessful in teaching Damian in basic human interactions. So must be someone outside. Bruce is too much emotionally conspirated, maybe Alfred. If yes then there is no reason to worry. But someone from outside could have hidden goals. It wos dangerous. Damian seemed suprised by his question but did not hestitate.

- My friend

And wosnt that a mistery. Tim needed to check that „friend” no matter what. He could be using Damian or plotting to hurt Wayne’s. But he wosnt going to let his suspicion break just created string of trust with his younger brother. He will check that stranger on his own in a way that Damian won’t realize. For know that wos enough. Damian wos opening the doors to go to his room when Tim added

- what happend to Timothy?

Damian slammed the door in his face. And Tim burst out laughing. He wos not going to let that go.

[voiider]

thinking about Reverse Robins with Red Hood Steph and Oracle Tim

and his best friend (almost girlfriend) died and it was Batman's Fault. I'm thinking Tim was a Friend Behind The Scenes like he figured out who Damian and Bruce were somehow and also met Steph when she was starting out as spoiler, and maybe he's the one who pushes her into being Robin bc Batman hasn't been the same since Damian left to be Nightwing in Bludhaven. So he feels guilty bc the joker killed her and he's the one who told her to be Robin but Batman is the one who's supposed to look out for Robin in the first place!

And Oracle would've been a name they came up with together and he would help her on cases and give her and Batman information and tip off the police sometimes. So Bruce knew Steph had a friend that helped out but never found a good time to address the possible leak.

And then at Stephanie's funeral one Timothy Drake accosts him. Crying and beating his chest and saying "it's your fault you were supposed to protect her" and Bruce doesn't know how to react because he wasn't aware Tim Drake and Stephanie (Almost Wayne) knew each other. But I think he'd connect the dots even if he doesn't say anything because it's the least he can do after letting Stephanie die.

And Tim who tries his best to avenge his best friend goes after The Joker himself, knowing he can't expect The Batman to kill. Not even for Stephanie. And it almost works but Batman shows up and tries to stop him and the Joker gets away and Tim is impaled by Something (rebar, pipe, crowbar idk) and has to get a splenectomy <3

(Raye is in my chat as we speak doing research on Post-sepsis syndrome (PSS) and overwhelming post splenectomy infection (OPSI) for me)

So he stays in his clock tower where he can make sure everything is sterilized because he is excessively immunocompromized and he takes his meds and he watches from behind his hundreds of screens. Mitigating his symptoms as best he can as he keeps an eye on the new Robin and the whole of Gotham.

Is he pissed there's a new Robin? Yeah ofc. But By God he will not let another Robin die. So he's helping on coms and keeping an eye on things as best he can and Jason is like "B literally who the fuck is this". And Bruce WON'T TELL HIM (because he doesn't know? Unsure) all B will say is that "You can trust Oracle." which is pretty sus even coming from Batman.

I think the relationship between Tim and Damian would be interesting esp if Damian wasn't a great older brother/mentor to Steph. So Damian is telling Jason NOT to trust Oracle under any circumstance and Bruce is telling him it's okay, and Oracle is helping him out but is all pissy about it so he is getting the most mixed signals of all time.

And then the Red Hood shows up. Starts taking out gang members. Delivers a bag full of heads to the leaders in order to threaten her way to power. Wages war against Black Mask and the Penguin in less than a week.

Declares Crime Alley as Her's (which is totally unfair to Robin who lived there and still visits regularly) and starts taking out the trash.

The Joker is still alive and Batman has replaced her as Robin, it doesn't matter if Steph knows that Talia was manipulating her that still hurts. What's worse? Steph's best friend is nowhere to be found. His parents died a year or so back, his old house is sold to new owners, and Timothy Drake has dropped out of the public view.

[multiverseworm]

Why I think Tim Drake finds himself identified with the plot of The Breakfast Club.

(This is a follow up on my previous post about the Batfamily Letterboxd reviews)

I do believe Tim would not only find the film to be boring at first when Steph suggests that the family should watch it during their famous family nights, but he would also find himself unable to accept the emotional wreckage he would just have experienced after finishing it.

Let me explain.

It could be argued that the Batfamily dynamics, most specifically, the siblings ones could be represented by the characters in the movie, as well as their personalities and experiences.

However, I would like to take this a step further and say that each member of The Breakfast Club, the struggles, masks, and both personal and interpersonal relationships represent a stage of what Tim has got to go through in his life. Let’s go through each:

• Claire Standish (The Princess):

Claire comes from a wealthy family and is part of the popular crowd. She is used to being admired but also feels isolated because of the pressures that come with her social status. Underneath, she is insecure and deeply unhappy. She also feels like she is only valued for her looks and status.

Stage> Tim’s pre-Robin life.

Tim came from a wealthy family, but he wasn’t spoiled or arrogant. His parents were often away on business, which left him feeling emotionally neglected. He had money, but not much real connection with others. Making him feel unhappy and unfulfilled.

• Allison Reynolds (The Basket Case):

Allison is an outsider who has no real friends and is used to being ignored. She suffers from extreme loneliness and neglect since her parents completely ignore her. She has no sense of identity and feels invisible. She doesn’t actually have a reason to be in detention, she just showed up because she had nothing better to do. Throughout the movie, Allison opens up to the others and shows a more vulnerable side. Claire gives her a makeover, which symbolizes her desire to be noticed.

Stage> Tim decides to be Robin.

Tim had always been a very intelligent and observant child, regardless of his lack of interaction with others, he could study them quite well. When this trait helps him find who Batman and Nightwing are, and uses that same skill to find them and make himself heard despite this being something he is not used to doing. The mantle of Robin becomes his makeover.

• Brian Johnson (The Brain):

Brian is a top student, likely in advanced classes. He’s an overachiever who is socially awkward and desperate for approval. He wants to fit in but doesn’t know how. His self-worth is entirely tied to his grades and academic success. His parents pressure him to be perfect, and he feels like a failure when he falls short. He was given detention for bringing a flare gun to school after failing shop class, his first real academic failure. This hints at unaliving thoughts, as he implies he considered using the gun on himself. Over the course of the movie, Brian opens up about the intense pressure he faces.

Stage> Tim faces the pressure of being Robin after Jason.

Tim quickly realized the importance and heaviness of the mantle he had been passed down. All of this, mixed with the constant struggle of having to pull Bruce out of the shadows that grief was causing on him, made him feel the need of having to live up to the image of someone he knew the bat had chosen himself. This led him to have an immense lack of self confidence, now needing to prove to Bruce, Dick, and everyone else involved that he was not Jason, nor he wanted to be. He wanted to be better, but into the eyes of a grieving man, he always fell short.

• Andrew Clark (The Athlete):

Andrew’s father pushes him to be the best, and he feels obligated to live up to that expectation. He is confident and friendly but deeply insecure. His biggest fear is disappointing his father, who only values him for his athletic success. Throughout the movie, Andrew realizes that his self-worth shouldn’t come from his father’s approval.

Stage> Being valued for who he is by Batman.

By this point, Tim had faced many challenges as both himself and as Robin. He was not accepted as Robin at first by Bruce, but eventually, he earned his trust with determination and skills. Batman had to push him, in ways that were completely different from the previous Robins. The detective potential, the strategic nature, the methodical approach. Tim was a natural that Bruce was ultimately proud had found his way to him. And Tim learned not to depend on whatever he was similar or not with the past people who’ve had held the mantle before.

• John Bender (The Criminal):

Sarcastic, rebellious, and aggressive on the outside, but vulnerable and deeply hurt underneath. He uses his tough-guy persona as a shield to protect himself.

He hates authority figures because they remind him of his father. He believes he is destined to fail, as he has never been given a chance to succeed. Over the course of the movie, Bender goes from being hostile and defensive to showing his vulnerability. He shares a heartbreaking story about his father burning him with a cigar, which helps the others understand why he acts the way he does. At the end, as he walks across the football field and raises his fist in the air, it symbolizes his defiance but also his newfound sense of hope.

Stage> Red-Robin era, post-Bruce’s alleged death.

After Bruce was presumed dead and Dick had to assume the mantle of Batman for a while, it began one of the most difficult times for Tim. He not only was disregarded by his own family when he firmly believed that Bruce was still alive, but he was left with a sense of betrayal once Dick decided to take Damian Wayne under his wing as his Robin, removing a mantle he had earned through sweat and tears. He rebelled and went solo, beating people to near death in hopes of finding the truth about what he believed has been a lie, and that Bruce would be found.

Tim doesn’t stay in that dark state of mind permanently, but he struggles with it on and off depending on the circumstances. And just like Bender, once he has been able to let himself show vulnerability despite his family’s troubled relationship, he finds himself receiving support from a new found family in the teams he’s led: Young Justice and the Teen Titans.

[ao3-top-batfam-ships-bracket]

My problem with Bat/ Bat ships isn't that they exist, it's how many people like them.

Wait! Hear me out. I swear I have a reason.

I'm good at ignoring ships that squick me, so I do. I also want to make it very clear I am not I am not hating on individuums who ship Bat/ Bat.

But to me, how much people ship them is kind of indicative of how little we value adopted children in our society. People say they aren't "really related" so it's fine.

Because you just don't see that level of engagement with ships involving biologically related family.

And it's that attitude shining through more than the shipping itself I dislike.

"Fiction isn't reality" no, it isn't, write the darkest thing you want. Explore fucked up concepts. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's completely normal.

However oftentimes Fiction is often still a reflection of reality. From reading, we can learn about our society (or other societies, if we venture beyond our own culture.) It says something, whether the author meant for it to mean something or not.

We understand where you're coming from and agree that adopted children/siblings are real family and shouldn't be valued less. We also agree that fiction mirrors reality which mirrors fiction, although that process is much more complex than many people claim.

However, 1) not every family is your typical nuclear family. Everybody defines their family and their relationships with its members in their own way. Some people call all adults that are close to them uncles and aunts, regardless of any actual biological connection. Someone could have been raised by their biological parents, but don't claim them as parents because of personal reasons and even view other adults who filled the parental roles better as their actual parents. Someone could have a biological sibling that is much older than them, grow up without them in their life and due to that think of them as more of a cool friend than a sibling. (All examples are taken from our own personal experiences.)

It's especially apparent in cases of found family, which batfamily certainly is. Tim and Jason haven't met until Jason was 18 and Tim was 16. Both were adopted by the same man, but they didn't know each other. Does that automatically makes them brothers? Even though without the adoption papers they would be total strangers? If Jason's death invalidated the adoption papers does it mean he and Bruce stopped thinking of each other as parent and child? Bruce and Dick have an age difference between 10 to 20 years and viewed each other more as brothers, partners and mentor/mentee at first. Bruce and Tim for a long time also thought of each other as mentor/mentee, especially since Tim still had a living father. That was also the case of Dick and Damian. Tim had a crush on Cass in the comics at the beginning of their friendship. Jason and Dick were technically brothers before Jason's death, but they weren't close at all and only met a few times. Barbara is a mother/sister figure to Cass even when she was dating Cass' adopted brother Dick. We don't think Jason and Cass even met once in post-crisis comics, despite technically being siblings. (Sorry we're only mentioning that one era, we aren't as knowledgeable about new52 and rebirth.)

The recent push to make the batfamily a nuclear family in our opinion does a huge disservice to the characters and their interesting and complicated relationships that can't fit neatly into boxes labeled "sibling" or "parent".

2) some people think of batfamily as a family AND still ship them at the same time. Yes, some claim they aren't "really related", but there's another side that absolutely views them as related and wants to explore what happens when two brothers or a father and son fall in love.

3) there's actually a pretty big engagement with ships involving biologically related family. Wincest (ship between biological brothers Sam and Dean from Supernatural) is the 15th most popular ship on AO3 of all time. We still remember how prominent the fandom discourse about shipping the Weasley twins from Harry Potter was. In almost every fandom, there're at least a few incest ships. Are they more popular than adopted sibling incest ships? We don't know, but if anyone wants to measure it in some way, we'd love to find out.

Edit: 4) as people have rightfully pointed out in the comments and reblogs, a lot of fics are AUs where one or both characters weren't even adopted and met in different circumstances. You can see that in a lot of fandoms, people will imagine close friends or even strangers as biological family and vice versa: write biological or adopted family as just friends or even strangers.

We're looking forward to hearing what other people think about this topic!

[galaxymagitech]

Upside Down Bats AU — Damian (Batgirl, Oracle)

(Credit to this post for advice and examples for drawing wheelchairs. I probably messed it up but…a sincere attempt was made.)

Don’t get me wrong. Damian is a guy in this AU! So, why is he Batgirl? Well…when Damian was four years old, Talia realized what Ra’s would do to him and gave him up for adoption. After Damian spent six years kicking around the foster care system, Bruce found him through DNA evidence in a child abuse case and “adopted” his son.

Damian isn’t supposed to know that his father is Batman, but he’s no fool! Of course, revealing he knows and asking to fight with Bruce will result in him being constantly monitored. But if Robin gets to do it, why can’t he? So, he decides to sneak out to work with Batman. But Batman is the World’s Greatest Detective, and Damian lives with him. How can Damian possibly throw him off the scent? Simple: Crossdressing!

Thus begins the tale of Batgirl. At first, a skirt and a red wig is enough to hide that Damian is a boy. And Bruce would never even think to guess that Batgirl is his son, Damian. As Damian gets older, Bruce eventually “realizes” that Batgirl is a trans girl and surreptitiously puts out padding and other stuff “for disguises” that Batgirl can steal. Damian has no idea his father thinks this.

While Damian is in medical school, Batgirl’s career is cut short when he is injured in a confrontation with Flamingo. In this universe, Talia could not provide him with a metal spine, so he is paralyzed from the waist down. Bruce realizes that this is Damian and is horrified, benching Steph to try to keep her safe. (Of course, that doesn’t work so well. But that’s a story for another post!)

Damian drops out of medical school and has a crisis, which is worsened by Steph’s death. After getting encouragement from Duke and realizing that Bruce is getting reckless, he decides to re-enter the field as Oracle. Bruce, who feels horrifically guilty for Damian’s injury, would try his absolute best not to make Damian watch him die. But Damian realizes that while he can prevent Bruce from being too reckless, he can’t keep Bruce from being too violent in the field. He tries to get Duke to return, but after a fight with Bruce, Duke says in no uncertain terms that he is Done with Batman. So, when Cass shows up, determined to help Batman, Damian reluctantly encourages her to become Robin.

At first, Damian is over-involved in Cass’s training, but once Cass makes friends with Tim and spends less time with the Bats, Damian returns to medical school. Working as a doctor at Leslie’s clinic and Oracle at the same time is demanding and exhausting, but he wouldn’t have it any other way.

[gildedphoenix]

SuperPhantom - White Crow

Posting this now because I'm not sure I'll ever finish it.

Feel free to contribute.

White Crow SuperPhantom

(965 words)

--+--

Dean answered his ringing flip phone. And NO Sam, he doesn't need a smart phone. The battery on this thing lasts 5 days and it survives being in Dean's pocket when he's thrown against a wall by the bad guy of the week.

"Hi Bobby. Whatcha got for us?"

"I hope you've got gas in the take because this one is going to be a bit of a chase." Bobby opened. "I've got reports coming in from all over about a white crow being linked to dozens of deaths. None of the hunters who've looked into it so far have been able to track the creature or find any connections between the victims. The issue is that some of the crimes aren't fresh. The last victim, a Tim Stillion, had been dead for weeks. Can't figure out the cause because the animals had been at his body. And unless this bird can teleport, he was on the other side the country when Stillion was kill't."

Sam, who was already clickity clacking on his laptop, spoke up. "It sounds like the crow isn't a portent of death then, but just a reporter. But how is it finding the bodies?"

"Yeah," Bobby drawled "I figured you'd come to that conclusion. That's why I called you boys. Every other hunter is out here trying to end this bird when it's solved more cold cases then all of them combined. Bunch of idgits."

Dean grabbed his jacket from the back of his chair and started towards the garage. "So where are we headed Bobby? Any word on the last sighting?"

"Last couple time it was seen, it was around central Illinois."

"Let's roll"

-=-=-=-=-

Sam Manson revved her vespa and continued chasing the white crow down ST-54. They'd been at this for weeks now. And despite it all, Sam was just happy that she'd found Danny at all.

/three weeks ago/

"There's no way!" leopard print blouse said. "You look like one of my son's friends."

Danny had a tendency to drop whatever he was holding if he got summoned but for once, he kept hold of his cell phone. So when he ended up disappearing in the middle of a Doom speed run, Tucker was able to track him down. And after a few minutes (and way too few reasonable security measures) Sam and Tucker were able to watch a live stream from a web connected Nanny cam.

The room was all white, leather couches pushed back against the walls. Marble and brass coffee table set with white taper candles. Starbucks cups sitting on the ledge of the kitchen counter. And in the middle of the room, Phantom. Desperately trying to convince 6 PTA, HOA, Basic Witches that he was indeed the Ghost King that they were trying to summon.

A woman in a white gauze blouse and white wash jeans stepped forward. It must be her house, because she matched the decor. "How did you highjack the summoning?!" It was the same tone every teen has heard from their parents. The tone that said they'd already decided what had happened and were just waiting for you to admit fault.

"Hey, you summoned me. What did you even want, anyway? Pumpkin spice to be available year round? For the grocery store to accept your expired coupons? How about-"

"Now you listen to me young man," A third woman, dressed in sunny yellow and a high pony tail that did nothing to help her look younger. "You need to learn manners and your parents clearly didn't care to teach you"

("Ouch" danny mumbled, "accurate, but ouch" )

Yellow started chanting and the others quickly caught on and joined in. Danny, realizing that he was running out of time to gas light, gatekeep, or girlboss his way out of a solution, tried the old reliable Plan Z. Run away.

So he turned ghostly tail to the nearest window and - BONK! - was stopped by the shielding on the summoning circle. Which was a first. People usually forgot about that. Danny was now both impressed and worried as be felt both pressure and dread building around him as the chanting volume and speed.

Danny clutched his head as the pressure grew to a screeching point until everything released with a pop. The pressure was gone. The chanting was gone. Danny felt lighter, which was saying something given how gravity was typically just a suggestion while he was in ghost mode. Opening his eyes -and when had he closed them? - he noticed one more difference. Everyone had gotten bigger. And the furniture had gotten bigger. And the room had gotten…. uh oh. He had gotten smaller.

Danny was trying to orient himself and identify where an deep thudding was coming from when he was hit from the side. Foot steps. That's what the thudding was. They were just drastically louder when he was only tall enough to stare people in the shins. And the sidelong assault? A broom. Which connected a second time before he thought to go intangible. (Why did he always forget intangibility?)

The woman in white had gotten a broom and was swatting him towards the open patio door, her strappy white sandals stopping behind him and he frantically tried to coordinate his limbs in that same direction. His limbs did not want to coordinate but he eventually got himself out the door and the broom stopped swatting at him.

Once he cleared the threshold, the door rolled closed with a slam and the lock snicked shut.

"And don't come back unless you've learned respect!" was shouted at him from a nearby window before it, too was slammed shut.

======================================

Looking back into the house, he was met by his own reflection in the sliding glass door.

"SQUAAAAAAK!"

In which Danny and Sam are traveling the US 90's road trip style to absorb the ecto of recent (or semi-recent) murders so Danny can get enough power to break the spell and transform back.

The general hunter community is chasing a white crow and a witch to stop them from committing all these murders.

And Sam and Dean and Bobby are trying to just figure out what's going on.

[flyingcatstiel]

I’m currently reading superbat fics (sorry, destiel, stony and dinluke, I’ll get back to you some day) and I’m having great time with commenting and authors replying to me. It’s a whole new fandom experience when I can read fics just for personal enjoyment, without planning fic rec lists. So much easier to comment, wtf. Anyways, I’m following 4 superbat identity p*rn fics right now, and it’s glorious. What a feast. My favorite trope, so many interesting ways to explore it. Happy holidays to all superbat writers but especially those 4 WIP writers🎄

ETA - here be some recs

ETA, March 2024 - HERE BE SOME UPDATES!

@pinkb00bsocks asked about those 4 WIPs. Here they are! The usual disclaimer - there are plenty of excellent superbat WIPs going on right now, but I've limited spoons and these are the ones I currently enjoy.

The World and All Its Hedgehogs by Ginevra_Benci [M. 8,007 word count, WIP, 4/?] To investigate illegal arms sale taking place at a tropical resort hotel, Batman goes under cover as a vacuous billionaire Brucie Wayne and Superman takes a part time job as a porter. They didn't coordinate this, they don't know each others civilian identities. Every time they talk there are at least 3 different conversations going on and it is glorious. Also, so much lust. ;)

(Also, check out Interviewing & Counceling series by the same author. Clark is having a superhero identity crisis and Bruce is there to catch Clark gently as he spirals down. It has one of the softest identity reveals in superbat fics. ETA - the series is now complete, it has 5 parts and 18k word count. Awesome ending to the softest identity reveal story)

Watching Our Stars Align by ClarkeStetler [M, 28,840 word count, WIP, 7/14] There's a dating/chatting app only for superheroes and all identities are secret. What could go wrong? Bruce and Clark get matched under their new pseuds, and same happens to Tim Drake and Conner Kent. Now fathers and sons gotta navigate complicated relationships that come with secret identities and judging your coworkers hastily while talking heart to heart to anonymous superhero. The identity porn part happens through DM, which just happens to be another favorite trope of mine. [The story is going strong, it has 10/14 chapters now and a wonderful tangle of 3 secret identities!]

(Love) Triangles Have Multiple Centers by frozenpotions [T, 27,281 word count, WIP, 4/10] This fic wastes no time getting playboy billionaire Brucie Wayne and pining-after-his-coworker journalist Clark Kent together. After that, first time uneasy partners Batman and Superman gotta solve a case and their civilian selves gotta deal with the realities of their one night stand. Complicated doesn't even cover it! [The fic is being updated and Clark and Bruce are being put through new trials, 6/10 chapters]

A Favor for a Friend by RedFive [Explicit, 18,286 word count, WIP, 4/7] Omega verse fic with alpha playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne and omega journalist Clark Kent. I'm fascinated by dominant, flirtatious, sexually ravenous alpha Brucie Wayne who moonlights as a stoic, covered in scent blockers thus unclear second gender, Batman. Meanwhile omega Clark, due to being Kryptonian, is much less ruled by his second gender. That is, until he meets Mr. Wayne. This fic has so much lust and tension between the two. Does accidental heat triggering counts as a soulmate mark? I'm gonna count it like that. [The fic has entered the finish line, only a chapter or two are left to finish this wild, explosive, life changing story of two people who were meant for each other. 8/? chapters, 44k word count] The fic is now complete!!! 9 chapters, 56,153 word count. (Also, there's this new TV show about two gay dudes, and istg, they look like Bruce and Clark from this fic. I'm not naming it here because I don't want to highjack the show tag with superbat post, but go and check the tag on tumblr)

*****

And a special shout out to two identity shenanigan WIPs that are not actively updating but are absolute must reads.

ship-to-ship combat by pomeloquat [M, 62,737 word count, WIP, 12/13] OK, so, for me personally, this is the ultimate identity p*rn fic across all fandoms I've read so far. This fic has one of the highest amount of secret identity pairs in superbat fics. There's the usual pining silently Batman/Superman, then there's Clark dating Bruce, Superman saving Bruce Wayne from peril, Clark Kent chatting with Batman. And the cherry on top is Clark writing Bruceman fanfic which is basically a RPF of his two friends, Batman and Bruce Wayne. Which leads to an internet friendship with a fellow fan, who is, you guessed, Bruce. This fic has great reflections on fandom and shipping culture. But the very beating heart of this fic is about how easy it is to lose something you wished to have but were afraid to ask for. The fic, at 12/13, is technically a WIP, but the main reveal is already done, and it is glorious. ETA - THIS IS NOT A DRILL, the fic is finished and the last chapter is a super meta cherry on a top of delicious, layered superhero identity and fandom shenanigans parfait. 13 chapters, 76,7k word count.

10 Things Every Brucie Fan Needs in Their Life by pomeloquat [T, 8,956 word count, WIP, 5/10] The main premise of this fic is hilarious and yet so, so right. Bruce Wayne is promoting himself as a nation's boyfriend instead of a playboy, and is making bank out of his wholesome, PG rated merchandise. The chapters of this fic tell continuous story but they also can be read as separate vignettes, so there's really no cliffhanger. This fic is so soft and fluffy, it will heal your soul. Also, Superman has celebrity crush on Bruce Wayne. Batman is amused.

[crushedsweets]

what would BENs thoughts about the others be and what would their thoughts on him be? (I have a theory that Tim is just in the corner like "why am I surrounded by traumatized teenagers and children what the Fuck")

AHH OK I HAVENT DONE A POST LIKE THIS IN FOREVERRRRRR ill try to be quick cuz i have dinner planned soon. everything is specific to my au

toby: sibling-like relationship! it started with toby being freaked out by ben (toby has a serious issue with ghosts . LMAO) and ben making fun of him for it until toby eventually warms up to ben. in which case toby starts picking on him now. which is all fun and games till ben gets mad. overall, they have a pretty positive relationship and ben has helped toby get out of trouble countless times - but it gets kinda awkward/tense after toby and jeff start beefing

brian: brian was one of the first people to get involved with ben! he was the one who encouraged the sorta "he could be really useful to us" idea to slendy/the other proxies. ben thinks hes a good guy and is pretty happy to help brian out, but theyre not really friends - moreso friendly coworkers.. ?

tim: he's really uninvolved in the paranormal aspects of his job...so he strays far away from ben. HOWEVER, they have still spoken and ben thinks tim is just kinda boring and has a stick up his ass. tim thinks ben is a freak

kate: ben thinks shes boring and a weirdo. kate thinks hes annoying and obnoxious. they rarely interact because the jobs kate takes up (patrolling the forest, bringing slendy 'meals', pinning up pages) doesnt really need bens help (cctv footage, etc). but i like to think he eventually helps her get some footing in the real world... maybe by wiping away her missing persons report so she can use her SSN and stuff for jobs.

clocky: she just feels really sad for him. she thinks of him like an annoying little brother(esp cuz she feels that way towards jeff) and she'd be one of the first(if any) to know what happened to ben, how he died, why he looks like that. and it would break her heart, cuz he's just a kid and needed someone to protect him and while they dont really share many experiences, she just feels so strongly and protective over any kid whos been hurt. ben thinks shes a total badass and loves when she hangs out with him, BUT he thinks she also has a stick up her ass at time cuz she'll get snappy if hes being too annoying

EJ: realizing ben is just everyones brother damn... he reminds EJ of one of EJ's siblings, from before the sacrifice. it kills him i think. ben and jeff often go to EJ's place and just lounge around and bother him, but EJ is secretly grateful to have some people making noise and hanging out at his house - reminds him of home. ben thinks hes cool and is always very fond of other paranormal folk, thinks theyre the only ones who can REALLY understand him. something about losing your humanity, or whatever.

sally: not a lot of things can get ben very emotional or sentimental, but sally does. he understands her pretty well, both having been betrayed and killed by someone they trusted - and while they really dont have much in common and therefore dont spend much time together, i like to think they have a really deep connection that sorta transcends anything mortal. its pretty somber, but its nice to not feel so alone

jeff: thats his BFF4L. theyve gone months being totally glued to the hips. constantly laughing and making fun of eachother and doing stupid shit and just being like. AGAIN. BROTHERLY LOL. theyre just here for a good time not a long time and bens saved jeffs ass many a time.

jane: she barely knows of him. he entirely avoids and tries to hide his entire existence from her (cuz of jeff), but since jane takes care of sally, she's vaguely aware.

liu: same as jane, ben avoids liu and has no reason to interact with him

ann: she thinks hes an insufferable brat. LOL. she doesnt like kids and she especially doesnt like him. i dont think they really hang out or have reasons to interact...

dina: same thing with ann LOL

lulu: i think theyve bumped into eachtoher a few times and lulu would give ben the creeps!! hes probably mostly just like Hm. weird. and then leaves her to wander. she doesnt have enough memories of him to have an opinion

lazari: loves him, loves playing games with him. ben and jeff will get her to say swear words and it makes EJ hella mad

nina: she thinks hes so adorable (like 'DAWW LET ME PINCH YOUR CHEEKS') little brother adorable. he has a huge stupid crush on her, but she doesnt know about it. and obvi wouldnt reciprocate it, but its kinda like dipper having a crush on wendy in gravity falls ? eventually hes like JEFFFFF YOURE FUMBLINGGG YOURE FUMBLINGGGGGG when jeff treats nina like shit, but he does literally nothing to actually help ninas situation. i think he feels bad for her, but he also is like "well you did this to yourself..so like..." . so. its complicated basically.