#treeni theory

[treeni]

Sanders Sides Orange Side Predictions

Theories Masterpost

If you haven’t read @averykedavra‘s post on the idea then you absolutely should. It is extremely well thought out and considers a lot of possibilities about the Orange side, even though there are some specific thoughts that I personally disagree with, it is absolutely worth reading through.

First, I want to say I agree with them pointing out @dragonsaphirareads character Otto, aka “Obsession” as being a brilliant take on what the Orange character could be from a conceptual basis. I also think @candied-peach / Peachsneaker’s character Wrath is another brilliant take on the opposite side of the spectrum of the potential of what the orange side could be. Honestly, if you haven’t, you should check out these two creators' works immediately as they are both completely fantastic writers and have a lot of great Sanders Sides stories, both with and without romance.

My only gripe is that I think both characters are too inherently good in their depictions. Personally, I think both authors are right, to a point. I think the Orange character would be someone who cares too much and takes things too far. What’s interesting about DragonSapphiraRead’s character, is that he was once Passion and gave up parts of himself to the others. It’s interesting, but I personally don’t think that’s how it’s going to go.

Instead I think Passion is exactly the trait that the darkside character is going to embody and this is where I most agree with averykedavra’s take. I think the Orange side is going to come in as someone who appears “good,” “right,” and even “helpful” at first glance, and yet, you gradually start to realize the problems further on. 

If you look at the progression of the darksides so far, you may notice that  they have followed the rule of three in establishing a pattern. Virgil showed up and scared the others until his point got across until he was listened to, so really was it any surprise when both Janus and Remus immediately did the same upon their introductions? Given the divide, it took time and understanding to start being open to the good that Virgil brings. Janus has only just started to really prove to Thomas that he is well intentioned and Remus hasn’t even begun that part of the journey yet. However, you can see the three characters all in various states of the pattern that Virgil set. Virgil is at acceptance, Janus is at tolerance (or at least close to it) and Remus is still at distrust, but past the introduction and initial scare.Their actions have all followed the rule of three behavior that establishes a pattern for the audience to recognize. We inherently know Janus and Remus as being on the same “track” as Virgil was on a subconscious level.

Which is why I think the Orange side will absolutely destroy that expectation by diverting from that path and all current expectations of darksides. After a pattern of accepting the darksides, I think they will decide to immediately give the Orange side a chance because by then they will also have multiple examples of their shortsightedness about the darksides potential in helping Thomas.

 I also think Orange will absolutely come in and appear good at first glance. This will probably happen after Janus is really, truly accepted by the other sides and Remus is at least on his way to being accepted. I also really liked averykedavra’s idea that the orange side gives his name immediately, but I disagree on the idea that he can hide his role. The roles are something that others have been shown to bring up to the group and be generally aware of. No side has had to introduce their role as far as I can remember.

However I actually think of this as further evidence for the side having the role of Passion instead of Wrath or Obsession. Because Passion seems good at baseline and is absolutely good if controlled. However, Passion also encapsulates things like Wrath, Obsession, Procrastination, and Spite.

Imagine if you will, a side that comes in dressed as seemingly innocuous in fandom gear and tee shirts with big smiles and excitement. He quickly and easily proclaims his excitement of all of the others’ work and is extremely supportive at the beginning. I could see CharacterThomas becoming quickly and easily attached to someone who seems so positive and relatable. I think he’d be a little like Patton at first glance, but more childish. There would be none of the “fatherly” care in him for example. He would seem interested in what the others would say and generally only make quiet additions to the conversation. In the beginning it seems as if he brings out the good in the other sides with his small bits of help and encouragement. Except, he doesn’t stop at small. Instead as the sides start to become used to his presence he starts pushing things further and further. 

This side never lies, he doesn’t need to. He can manipulate the truth to do his bidding. He gently reminds Roman of all of the things he hasn’t yet achieved of his dreams. As a friend he pulls Patton aside to remind him of some of the bad things happening recently in the world, just to warn him of course. He asks for Logan’s help in clarifying  some facts that might be a little uncomfortable, but definitely important. He gently nudges Virgil about some of the dangerous things that could have happened to Thomas and really? Isn’t he just lucky to have come out okay so far? And self-preservation? No, not even he’s safe as the side reminds him of the rocky state of his “supposed acceptance” until Janus’ doubts overtake him.

You think Thomas struggles in dealing with one of them acting in extremes? Just wait until they all are. Logan becoming obsessive, Roman becoming unfocused, Virgil becoming paranoid, Patton becoming hysterical, and even Janus literally walling himself away because he devolves into extreme self-defense. (Also possibly trying to hastily wall just him and Thomas away. Because defensive rationality.)

The vast differences between the caring Patton and this side become increasingly clear to the audience, but by this point it’s too late. The sides are (almost) all hanging on his every word.

Logan can’t outmaneuver manipulative honesty, Virgil can’t caution against it, Roman’s too restricted to find a creative solution for it. Even Patton and Janus are ineffective because not only does it sound and feel right, it also seems akin to some of Janus’ behavior of revealing “uncomfortable” truths that Thomas doesn’t want to hear. 

I think this side is going to slowly drive the others into their own extreme biases until their own behaviors are so chaotic and restless they become literally unable to contribute to the conversation.

I also think that will be what makes this particular side terrifying. Instead of scaring the others into listening to him, he simply feeds into their own biases until they are so divided there is no longer a conversation. 

You see, this side wouldn’t simply want to be a voice to be heard. He would want to be the only voice.

Okay, now for my justification as to why. 

1. As I already mentioned before, we as humans like threes, comedians will list three things to establish a pattern and then add a fourth in a “one of these is not like the others” to make a joke. The best way to break a pattern is to flip expectation on its head. This side is already breaking that ideology simply by existing as a fourth darkside. He isn’t there to follow the others paths.

2. Janus and Remus’ religious dialogue that is telling of their own negative views of their lack of “inherent goodness” because they consistently use their own existences as proof of Thomas’ “inherent evilness.” While being revealing of their thought processes, I also believe it is a hint to the last side’s state as a Lucifer-like character in the classical sense of his intended perception. Not a demon, but an angel. Someone who believes they have done no wrong and tempts you on a personal level.

3. Also consider some of the things orange as a color symbolizes: encouragement, enthusiasm, and motivation, yes, but also ambition, domination, temptation, and warning.

It’s still loose evidence as we haven’t even met the side yet, but we as an audience can still derive a lot about him from the other characters.

Now that I’m here shoving all my opinions in your faces, I might as well go all out. 

I am currently two for three on darkside names so I’m going to throw my hat in and tell you my guess on that too. 

If the new Orange side follows my predictions I also think he will be named Aiden. 

Why? First, it means “fiery one” which is a perfect association for both passion and the color orange. It also mimics a “light side” name without quite fitting in with the “en” ending. Additionally, like most names, it is a modernization of older names and this particular one has derivative connections to both the Celtic god of sun and fire “Aodh” and the Greek god “Aidoneus” otherwise known as Hades. (Also keep in mind that Lucifer’s name means Morningstar, aka the sun.) Finally, the word “Aid” is literally in the name to give the impression of innocence. 

And that is my TED talk.

[vexelore]

You are the sweetest and I’m really thankful to have met you! It’s always nice talking theories with you! I read through your responses and tags every time you reblog cause you’re also hilarious and your brand of humor brings a smile to my face. 😃

gosh, you’re making me blush! this is one of the nicest things anyone has said to me 🥺 but also same! your writing and theories, your comments and thoughts on reblogs are great to read and i’m always interested in what you have to say!

so thanks, treeni, you’re a real cool cat 😎💗

[thecrowslullaby]

fidhgfnjbkgngvjkbmgfv. Thank you!!!!! Right back at ya!!!! I love your drawings and fics!!!!

Allow me to:

@treenissanderssidesstuff I hope no one will mind if I start with Treeni. I feel like everyone in this fandom has befriended them or at least is friends with someone who befriended Treeni. They are, and I cannot stress this enough, an absolute gem. They are kind, caring, creative, patient, funny, sweet, well organised, if you can think of a good quality it certainly goes here.

I met them, because like the name "Treeni" would suggest, their roots of support have reached me and I feel incredibly lucky to get to call them my friend.

Even though Treeni's support is how I met them it was wonderful to find out about both their art and their fics. (this is already getting long so i'll try to keep the rest brief) (multishipper by heart!!! heir blog has everything!!!)

@vanilla-bean-buttercream both amazing at drawing (have you seen their animatics?) and increadible at comming up with au ideas!!!! I could listen to them with ours on end. Also not sanders sides related but all the #cat chats post brighten my day!!!! (multishipper but I'm accusing you of currently having a moxiety/moceit brainrot)

@candied-peach You are such a sweet person! I admire your resiliance and strenght!!!. This author is absolutely increadible. Their ao3 is the place to go if you crave fluff. (demus shippers do yourself a favor and check them out <3)

@edupunkn00b chatting with them always blesses my day!!!!Have you read their fics!?!?!?!?(the one I'm currently obsessed with) Like this is the stuff that will leave me emotionally damaged for a few days to come and I couldn’t be happier about it. A fellow person of culture (aka intruloceit shipper) and all the "experiments" at drawing they post never fail to make me smile, they are absloutely adorable. (any combo of intruloceit)

@typically-untypical sweet person(with a little "murderous" steak <3) and i adore them <3!!!! incredible fics!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m guilty of only reading short stories so far (+the amazing fic you, Edu and Vex made for Treeni) but I am in love with them all. True multishipper. They have a fic for everyone. On top of that they record their stuff and the quality of the recordings is honestly better than most audiobooks I have listened too. They also organise a lot of events!!!!! (Logan lovers please go check them out!!!!)

@warcats-cat Beloved fren :D. I cherish you!!! I cannot stress enough how cute their dolls are and their fics are a wonderful little treat to re-read every once in a while <3. (LAMP lovers)

@dillydallydove very funny and sweet person!!! veeery cute art and amazing story teller (platonic prinxiety my beloved). I am still so invested in the g/t au (platonic prinxiety)

@aidensm8 I don’t think I really need to introduce Aiden to anyone. But that doesn’t mean I won’t make sure to point out how absolutely adorable their art is. Murderous intent or not, the beans are very cute <3 (highly recommending them to all the stray roceit shippers who somehow found my blog XD)

@sanderdarksides very beloved.chatting with them is always a win!!!! They have theories/art/fics, you name it, they got it. I look forward to seeing their content on my dash!!! (Janus stans)

@beauty-and-passion theories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are rather well known in the fandom from what I gathered but they absolutely deserve more love for their theories <3.

@nadiestar Such a strong and lovely person!!!! I admire them a lot!! Their art is so cuuuuute. I haven’t read all their works yet but those I did punched me in the stomach and I crave more!!!! I adore hearing about all the stories in the making!!! seing your concept art!!!!(Logan/Roman stan)

@reptilianwithscallions Absolute lovely unit of chaos and ideas <3. I could go commit crimes with you <3 Fic and art that makes my heart go <3. Would torture our fave characters with you <3 (If you love Janus do yourself a favor and follow them <3)

@yourmypenguin Ok but the quality of art!??!?!?!?! The inkynes?!?!?!?!?! The amazing aus they create?!?!?!?!?!?! I don't think I'll ever get over it (prinxiety!!!!!!!!!!! and lots of Logan :D)

@liddellhart sweet, sweet soul <3. Amzing to chat about ideas/theories and increadible at embroidery <3

@spicycreativity COSPLAY AND FIC OUT OF THIS WORLD. I’m still in love with the star trek au. Their #spicyblah posts make my day!!!(moceit and roceit shippers are in luck here <3)

@rondoel another artist that I don’t think needs an introduction. But I think reminding them how gorgeous their art is and how wonderful their world building is won’t bring any harm :D (kingceit)

@zodiacsomething the art is so precious and they are so fricking sweet. And traditional art isn't sth I see often so it makes me extra happy to see their drawings :D (lots of cute Patton content in the comic!!! But they generally post a little bit of everything!!)

@ray-does-stuff one of the first friends I made in the fandom <3. It's always a pleasure to talk to you!!!! (multishipper and Virgil stan :D)

@lost-in-thought-20 I adore their short stories. I’m inhaling anything that comes up on my dash immediately (they also have a little bit of everything but I found them bc I’m loceit trash. They do have amazing logince and dukeceit fics too (and platonic stuff too ofc!!!)

@iclaimedtobethebetterbard Found them due to the December fic gifting which honestly is such an adorable idea and inhaled all the short stories they wrote for that month. Pure fluff that I would recommend to anyone and everyone :D. (dukeceit/LAMP)

@cannibal-fat Their artstyle is absolutely iconic! It has those lovely creepy vibes and I can’t get enough of it!!! And I adore all their cosplays as well!!! (dukexiety/intrulogical)

@deodorant-stick the art is honestly incredible and I’m absolutely in love with their winter au!!!!!

@lemme-overthink-this really increadible comis!!!!!! Amzing theories and concept art!!!!!

@dante1138 the art that grips my heart!!!!!! I love how they color stuff!!!!!

@arc-gx honestly found them bc Dante found me. Not so much tss but I adore their covers for songs!!!

@moons-the-artist adorable art for all the prinxiety lovers!!!!!!

@lumencountess ok but their art is absolutely out of this world. It's so soft, pastelly and swirly and generally everything I love. Also I will never get over the adorable comics of our adventures and the little extra sneaky surprise you drew <3 (prinxiety and dukeceit)

@lackadae So tallented it's unreal. The way they color is amazing and I'm still low key terrified of them bc they use a mouse to draw

@moceit obviously the moceit stan. The "ship war" has been put on hold so I can legally recommend their art on here XD

@ace-ace-in-yo-face gorgoeous art. I don't think I can describe how gorgeous it is, please check them out even if you aren't a moceit stan. (moceit, obv)

@cultof-medusa -FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICS!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOUR FICS SO MUCH BESTIE!!!! SUCH A SWEET SOUL!!!! (prinxiety/intrulogical)

@crossiantgay cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute art!!!!!! The shading and the poses <3 (logince)

@thelittlequeerpumpkinwitch we haven't talked in a while but I still cherish you and I adore your incorrect quotes <3

@intergalactic-iguana new on the "market" and fellow loceit brainrot

@purplecrayonismine I interracted with them only a few times but their art is absolutely gorgeous and they are an increadibly sweet person <3

@a-ghostlight-for-roman A very nice person with very funky art!!!!!! We didn't interract much but I appretiate you :D

@lazy-artist-coking I adore chatting with you <3. Your art is adorable and I adore hearing about your aus

@gender-i-hardly-know-er -cute fics!!!!!!Lovely writing style!!!!! Chaotic and lovable!!!!! (analogical)

@so-youre-a-rock-with-issues I have had the pleasure of rambling with them sometime ago!!!! They also occassionally post art :D

@tssdresses The stuff they do looks so good!!!!!! Also a very friendly person!!!!!

@creative-username-lost They are such nice people!!!!! And theri art is absolutely lovely <3

And I’m ending this list of wonderful people with recommending lovely, amazing @lickoutyourbrains (and their artblog: @brainlicking) Their animatics, art and stories/worldbuilding always bring me so much joy. I don't think I could put it into words how much I adore listening to you about your day and your interests and ideas!!! (demus)

The Sanders Sides content creators need some love and appreciation. Who are your favorite creators?

3 favorite writers:

@a-small-batch-of-dragons

@poisonedapples

@snowdice

3 favorite artists:

@dillydallydove

@moons-the-artist

@shapa-likes-art

3 favorite other (editors, cosplayers, etc)

@warnadudenexttime

@oneletteredwondered

@manbemel

[treenissanderssidesstuff]

🧩 A theory you have

I keep forgetting what is and isn't a theory. But I can prove "intrusive thoughts" is a terrible descriptor for Remus to go along with my hijacking @typically-untypical's post if you want.

So this is gonna piggyback off of that Catharsis Remus post, which you should read before this for some context. As I said there, all of the sides but Janus (sorta) cause c!Thomas to have intrusive thoughts. Remus' brand of intrusive thoughts however helps restore a sense of control.

Anyone who makes dark jokes can probably relate to this pretty quickly. If you've ever been stressed about an assignment and said something like "kill me" because of it? That's Remus' brand of things. Making a joke like that makes yourself recontextualize a situation. Did you think about something dark for a moment there? Sure. However, that assignment that was stressing you out? Maybe it suddenly isn't quite so bad in the face of death. Just reminding yourself that there are technically other options and that doing the assignment for the betterment of your life is the one you're choosing is empowering. If you've laughed the joke off and felt a resurgence of drive? It's because you've re-centered yourself into a position of feeling control again and reminded yourself that whatever impossible task your facing doesn't have to be the end. The world isn't hinged on you doing something perfectly. You've made your problem small, by reminding yourself you're actively conquering a much bigger one just by being.

Okay, so now that I've given some context for what Remus' brand of intrusive thoughts are and how they're useful, let me explain how all of the lightsides have their own brand of intrusive thoughts that are both useful, but dangerous in excess.

Virgil: This one should be obvious. Anxiety is riddled with intrusive thoughts. "What if I go to the party and I make a fool of myself?" "I can't talk to that person, they'll think I'm stupid." "Is that person judging me?" "What if I can't do it?" Virgil makes c!Thomas think before he acts, which he needs we know he needs, but it can be crippling because it can make him worry too much and cause a paralysis of action. Virgil's brand of intrusive thoughts is thoughts related to a fear of what "could be." Accepting anxiety already contextualized his brand quite a bit. (Thanks Logan!)

Patton: Patton's got a one/two punch because he's morality and emotions. "Am I a bad person when I do something for myself?" "Do I deserve what I have? To be here?" "What about all of those talented people who are getting overlooked?" "Do I really deserve my friends?" "They're all so amazing though, they don't need me..." Patton's brand of intrusive thoughts is related to what "is" related to perceived expectations of people's opinion is specifically valued. He's the feeling of having to "deserve" what a person have in some way or downgrade achievements. c!Thomas' need to prove over and over again that he's actually trying and that he cares. It's a wonderful thing to want to help others, to show love and appreciation, but there is no "being good enough" if a person lets this type of guilt take over.

Roman: Roman's got that fear of failure, but in a different way than Virgil. It's more like failure induced stress. Virgil's the surface level anxiety about making a mistake, Roman's the deeper worry about not being enough that is only "proven correct" with every failure. "You didn't get/win [blank] because you're not talented enough." "You didn't work hard enough." "You should have done more, put in more effort." "You'll never match up to those other people, they deserve it." "Taking breaks is just laziness." Roman's intrusive thoughts are related to what "was" and perceptions connected to the past. He focuses on flaws and failures and causes c!Thomas to do the same. Each time a short term goal isn't met, is just fuel for that kind of self-hatred of not "doing enough." He keeps the dream alive, keeps pushing c!Thomas forward, but too much? And everything will feel useless because that self-degradation will stop being motivating and will start making c!Thomas feel inherently like a failure.

Logan: Logan's a bit of a tricky one because he's usually made to be the problem solver, but he's also had his own fair share of problems. Logan's issues are usually related to making he perceives as the "wrong" decisions. "If you had chosen a different career, you would be more stable." "People are laughing at you." "You're not acting like a proper adult." "You'll never be respected like this." Logan's intrusive thoughts are related to what "could have been," specifically an idealized version of that. It's easy to pretend things could have been better if a person had made different decisions, but different doesn't mean better. Having a job in science might have made c!Thomas appear more like a "standard adult," but would have he been happier? Probably not. If he thought at the time it would have made him happier, he probably would have chosen that path then. In some ways it can be good, because these kinds of thoughts can remind a person that there are other options if things don't work out. However, these kinds of thoughts pushed too far can make a person feel as if they've already ruined their life to the point of being irreparable, especially when their decisions go against the grain of normal expectations of society.

Janus: Janus is a little funny because he's a rule breaker (what else is new?) compared to the others. His focus is c!Thomas bettering himself, not to what others want, but to what he wants. There's no real outside stimuli related to him to cause intrusive thoughts. What he does do though, is make c!Thomas face the ones he has. He tries to breakdown the guilt, the fear, the shame by bringing it to focus and showing why it's wrong. It's the kind of thing that's painful to do in the moment, but also prevents you from hurting yourself worse. Actively explaining that you think your friends will hate you? It's uncomfortable. It hurts so much worse than passively believing it... in that moment. However, facing that perception is wrong? Prevents a lot of pain in the future of just letting yourself believe it.

And then we cycle back to Remus who in some ways, really is the garbage man, not because of how he presents himself, but because he forces c!Thomas to see what he's doing right by making him face the potential of a darker timeline and clean up the other's messes when they go to far.

[treenissanderssidesstuff]

SANDERS SIDES THEORIES

(moved from main)

Orange Side Theory

TLDR: Predictions on what the Orange side will be with even a proposed name.

Creativity’s Name Theory

TLDR: Why I disagree with most popular theories regarding “King Creativity”’s name and what I think would fit better.

The Sides that Aren’t Pt 1: Remy and Emile

TLDR: Why it’s valid to read Remy and Emile as Sides whether they ever show up in Sanders Sides, what their roles might be, and how they could potentially appear in the series.

The Sides that Aren’t Pt 2: The Shorts “Sides”

TLDR: The muddying of fiction and reality in Sanders Sides and how it’s important.

Roman and Remus Theory Pt 1: The Silver Strand?

Why does Remus have a silver strand of hair?

Mini Theories

Janus is absolutely a terrible liar.

(Honestly I had thoughts it was all a master ploy until I remembered he sucked at lying even when no one was paying attention.)

The stickers

How the stickers that Roman and Virgil noticed on Nico's laptop are just another prinxiety metaphor (Assumedly platonic in canon, but take it how you want.)

Thoughts on what's to come in in the finale and season 3

A little bit on all the sides, why they do some of the things they do currently (a la 5 year anniversary) and some of the things I'm predicting will come.

Counter Theories

Why Norse Mythology Probably Doesn't Fit the Sanders Sides Lore

Please remember that these are just theories, essentially analysis I do for fun. I don’t expect them to be a hundred percent correct by any means. If I did, I wouldn’t make my predictions so specific. I am honestly just as excited to see where I went wrong as where I went right. ^-^ Also, thanks for reading!

[treenissanderssidesstuff]

Treeni MasterList

Theory List

Alternative Ship Names

Daily Updated Fanfic Recommendations

My Fic List

WIP List (So you can actively watch things added/finished)

Complete: 13/48

[treeni]

Sanders Side Theory: Creativity’s Name and Roman’s Struggles

Theories Masterpost

Well, apparently some people were interested in my Orange side theory and stuff.

So let’s talk about “King Creativity” and why I disagree with every name theory I’ve seen so far and what I think instead. I’m not certain “King Creativity” is ever going to be named in the show, just knowing he existed is probably enough, but wouldn’t it be fantastic if there was a backstory episode? Or even aside episode?

First! Let’s start with the fact that I actually think it’s really interesting that everyone’s defaulting to Creativity being “King” when it is in fact Emperors who ruled Rome. Not a criticize, just interesting thought. Second, Kings were supposed to sit back and let their knights and armies basically do all of the physical work (Unless your Arthur, but it usually got him into trouble so! Moving on!) while you lead them as whatever supreme ruler title you take. However, a Crowned Prince was often at the head of said adventures and battles, in the thick of it all, but was basically indisputably the accepted next in line. (Approved by the courts and all that jazz, I mean historically it didn’t always go that way, but that was the intention). However, a regular Prince and a Duke could absolutely have a power struggle, especially in the situation where the Duke was previously “next in line” before the Prince’s birth. So if Roman and Remus ever did duke it out (also mini theory that Remus chose Duke for the fighting reference) I think one of them could/would become King, but I don’t think that’s who creativity was before the split.

Now I have a particular crowned prince in mind that creativity is named after, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Let’s start by talking about some of the most popular theories and why I disagree with them.

CW: for before the “Keep Reading” section. There is mention of metaphorical and fictional murder, war, lgbt theory (not that, that should surprise anyone). Roman backstory (aka things he might regret now.)

Romulus: While I suppose it’s convenient in the fact that its sort of the names combined, Romulus is already the role that Roman is filling in his relationship with Remus. Twins that supposedly found Rome, but Romulus killed his brother Remus to do so and become the ruler. Romulus literally named Rome after himself. This isn’t a hint, this isn’t something that’s upcoming or anything, this is backstory. Roman is literally just a modernized version of the name Romulus. Remus’ banishment to the darkside was his metaphorical murder. It also suggests that Roman took an active role in sending Remus away, which also helps explain a lot of Roman’s current struggle with Janus. Can you imagine the kind of guilt he might be feeling if he was the one who decided his brother was evil and he was good and then he passed judgement? If the darksides aren’t evil, then Roman and he metaphorically murdered Remus, then he wasn’t the hero slaying the beast anymore. Instead, he’s suddenly the bad guy.

Buuuut Treeni, what about Patton??? I hear you say. It would have had to have been morality right?

And to that I say you’re WRONG! And also right. Patton’s kinda been shown to be the most accepting bean of the whole lot, he doesn’t really try to force the others away the way some of the other sides do. Instead, he puts his foot down on his own convictions and refuses to listen to reason. (I didn’t say he was perfect.) Still, he doesn’t try to physically push the others away, not Virgil when he tried scaring Thomas, not Janus when they argued and Patton was clearly distressed by the courtroom situation, and not even Remus when Patton was clearly scared of him (also defensive of Roman). He doesn’t need to, he’s self-assured in his own place and convictions that he doesn’t worry about Thomas pushing him out. Instead, Patton kinda takes the family holiday party route and will do his best to put out the emotional fires and stand his ground on his opinion to Thomas when he needs to. (The ONLY time I could find Patton sort of pushing someone away was when they were in his room and Patton asked Logan to stop. While that could weaken my argument about Patton, I think it strengthens it because it shows how big of a deal it was at the time that Patton tried shutting him down. Logan reacted the way he did by immediately storming off because it’s not something Patton does.) While it could absolutely be Patton’s influence that caused the split, it would be out of character (as he’s currently defined) for Patton to actively push a side away. (I’ll get into some of his more negative aspects in another post if ya’ll wanna hear about it.)

Remember, Roman was the one who tried shutting down Virgil with bullying tactics, Logan too sometimes. Then he tried to use the same tactics on Janus when he tried putting his foot down on maintaining a black and white view point of the world after Remus’ appearance. Keep in mind that Remus actively told us that he blames Roman for his banishment. He compared himself and Roman to Cain and Able. While c!Thomas and even the audience as a whole were sort of led to think of Remus as Cain because of the “dark and evil” association, Remus is telling us that he is Abel. Roman is his destroyer. (Before you feel too bad for Remus, that misconception was also on purpose because while Remus isn’t a liar, he can manipulate a situation with honesty. Again, another post if you wanna hear about why.)

So now there is some general understanding of the twins backstory, you’ll see why Romulus would be a terrible fit for their combined name because Roman is already Romulus. Period. He’s the one who betrayed his brother by “murdering” him and taking over.

Making Romulus the name of who creativity was before because the names kinda morph together would lazy writing compared to very carefully woven details the show has had thus far (particularly in season 2). Okay, that went on a bit of a tangent, so next!

Caesar: This is a person who brought about the destruction of Rome, not the creation of it. (With Rome basically being the metaphorical state c!Thomas is living in now with clear lines between good/bad, right/wrong etc.) While it’s not a horrible ideology, it would be moving forward in a historical timeline instead of backwards. If you subscribe to the idea that Roman and Remus cannot go back to who they were (even with some kind of theoretical re-morphing) Caesar might be who they become, but it seems unlikely that is who they were. Remember that both sides are individuals now and those individual traits they’ve gained since splitting may not re-mesh cleanly back into who they once were. I personally don’t think there’s any “going back” for Creativity.

If they show him as he once was, it would likely only be in either a backstory bit or in a temporary situation where the re-combining doesn’t hold. However, if Creativity ever did become one thing again, I think it would be something completely new and I think Caesar would be a good fit for that in particular.

Aeneas: Again, it would be kinda lazy writing comparatively. Instead of using a sorta combination of the names that had some historical basis, this theory is based entirely on the idea of a convenient ancestor who quested and failed over and over to create Rome. I could have bought this had it been from lesser writers, but Thomas, Joan and the whole team do not mess around in story crafting and really carefully woven in references. I am literally degreed in writing and analysis and I keep finding myself impressed at the layers.

The name Aeneas also implies that the character Creativity was specifically questing for a change and that seems doubtful given the resentment between the brothers. Aeneas was essentially a left-over scavenger trying to scrape together a new home from what he could from already broken pieces and that does not sound like what Creativity is implied to be.

If we look at child development, I would theorize that Creativity is the oldest side. In the creative process, there are two major steps, first is information absorption, then second is application. The first thing any child must do is learn, anything and everything. The world is a limitless and imaginative playground. New material is around every corner and there it takes a while before the distinction between reality and fiction to be understood. It was probably just c!Thomas and Creativity for a while and as the others emerged, they looked up to him. It could even be potentially argued that Creativity was literally their creators.

This would imply that Aeneas would be a pretty terrible fit for him in that case because there’s nothing broken that he’s trying to salvage. The kingdom is his and c!Thomas’ to preside over with the other sides as his subjects. (c!Thomas being the distant “King” and Creativity being the “Crowned Prince”).

So, with all of that out of the way on why some of these theories are probably wrong, what do I think?

I think Creativity’s name is Hector.

Now, hear me out on this. For those of you who have read the Iliad you probably know exactly who I am referencing. You just may not know why. So stay with me here.

1. First, for those of you who don’t know, Hector was the Crowned Prince of Troy, the leader of the army that the Greeks (the perspective we’re getting) are facing off against. He’s also cousin to Aeneas, but actually accomplished things during the war beyond being saved by Aphrodite. This means he’s also an ancestor to both Romulus and Remus (albeit technically less direct). However, Hector’s family is where the royal lineage of Aeneas comes from. Though we follow the story mainly from the perspective of the Greeks (and the gods because they’re TROLLS), the Greek’s are pretty villainous in a lot of their actions throughout the story and they are most definitely the invaders. In this case, I would liken the Greek army to “outside opinion” for c!Thomas. Others interjecting their views on to someone and breaking his own beliefs. In this situation, Creativity would have been his biggest defender and hero, retreating into magical imaginary worlds to escape judgement.

2. So lets get onto the character and why him, shall we? Hector will literally do anything for his family. The war takes place because his little brother, Paris (one of a whopping 49 brothers mind you) either kidnaps, has Aphrodite kidnap or runs away with the Spartan Queen Helen because he fell in love with her. (It varies on the version and she was forced into her previous marriage at about 13 anyway, so Helen leaving willingly for the guy who the gods deem is the most attractive man alive is a popular modern reading.) It would have been so easy for the Trojans to yeet Helen back to Greece, but they don’t and Hector’s defense of her and his brother is a big reason why. Hector even chastises his brother for the mess he’s caused, but still stands by him and defends him. He also defends the hell out of Helen and refuses to blame her for their problems. Then in Troilus and Criseyde (Basically published Iliad perspective shift fanfiction with OCs) he defends the hell out of Criseyde when even Troilus, (apparently one of the 50 brothers) the person who claims to be in love with her, wont. Hector’s truly an all around good guy, great leader and has a very distinctive and personal moral compass that doesn’t always align with what’s being told to him is right. You want a character representation for someone who led the sides despite their clear struggles? Someone with Roman’s charm and heroism, and Remus’ understanding and drive? Hector is probably it.

3. Hector’s death is both a huge symbol for the end of Troy, but also isn’t? Let me explain, narratively speaking, Hector’s death is the point you know that Troy is basically doomed. His end is the representation of the end of it all. His corpse was literally paraded around as Achilles’s dragged it on the back of a chariot for days to show their doom. There was a distinct “aura” shift from Hector’s death as all of Troy mourned his death. We as an audience know Troy is basically doomed from Hector’s death alone. Hector was a person that even the enemy Greeks hella respected as a warrior and leader. Essentially, this was the point that the war that had been raging for about a decade became serious. At the same time, it just simply isn’t the end of the war. There’s the whole horse thing still to come and all that jazz. Still though, Hector’s death is very much a symbol of “everything changes, but nothing does.” Which is the perfect symbol for the twins split to me. Just because they split doesn’t mean that all of the sides did immediately, yet it was still probably the turning point that drove a wedge between the “dark” and “light” sides.

4. The character Hector arguably died in the name of gay love. Okay, story time. So in the Iliad, Achilles is being a little bitch and refusing to fight anymore because drama between him and the king of Athens, but he’s their best fighter and the Greek’s are basically sorta loosing because of him not helping. His boyf- I mean best friend Patroclus goes out in Achilles armor and leads his army in his place because Achilles is a whiny baby. Except Hector kinda immediately kills Patroclus, thinking he’s Achilles with reinforcements.(This was full body armor baby and distinctive cause baby of a god and all that mocha frappe.) Of course, Achilles has to immediately get angry revenge for his boyf- BEST friend and ends up killing Hector. This would make the character Hector a great metaphor for Creativity if his split had anything to do with sexuality or even acceptance as a whole. (Though we know acceptance is definitely a part of it considering Remus.) We know that Remus wants c!Thomas to explore darker themes and the struggle of sexuality and acceptance could be a possibility in what is to come as a previously “off-limits” theme.

5. A big one is that the destruction of Troy is what eventually brought about the creation of Rome. Essentially Troy would be the metaphor of c!Thomas’ existence/mentality before the sides split into dark/light factions. Then Rome would be the metaphor of c!Thomas’ existence/mentality after the sides split into factions.

6.Finally, the name Hector literally means “to restrain” which would work well for Creativity as he was likely trying to reign in the others from infighting (and you can see how well that went with him being gone). 

Cheers to another rant into the void. Huzzah! God this is nearly as long as some of my seminar papers. Do what you will with this information.

Please keep in mind that I adore Roman as a character. This post isn’t meant to hate on him. It’s meant to bring awareness of the layers of his character. Every Prince Charming was a villain to someone, every hero that slays the beast is a murderer from a different light. 

I don’t bring these things to light to cause pain, I bring them to light to help bring awareness of what’s probably going through his head.

(Yes, in regards to the Creativity being made first thing, I DO even have a theory about existence order, I promise you I have theories about everything. My mind does not stop with this crap. I have theories on everything from what animal association Roman and Logan have to Virgil’s key role in Roman’s backstory. I’ve ranted about a bunch of these things to a few specific people so if you ever want me to go on a rant about anything in particular let me know. I didn’t expect anyone to actually look at the other theory post tbh. Inbox me if you want me to go to unnecessary lengths on something else.)

(Also, correct me on the Patton thing if I’m wrong. I took notes on a recent watch through, but I wasn’t specifically looking for his rejection sooo, if there are other moments of it you can find that didn’t jump out at me I totally accept criticism.)