#tw indoctrination

[litelectrics]

Yall I cannot im arguing with some transphobic dick bc it’s funny and I’m bored and they compared bein trans to a cult im GIGGLING

Sorry guys im not actually trans I was indoctrinated by woke </3

[0809sysblings]

i never shut up about this stuff but. one of the most frustrating parts of indoctrination and being gaslit and being brainwashed is. the fact that "logic" no longer has any power (until you've recovered, that is).

like... you cannot just tell someone "hey, you only think/feel this way (which is incorrect) because you were brainwashed to think/feel that". because that is the Same Exact logic that was used to brainwash them in the first place. "you only think/feel this way (which is incorrect) because you are not yet Enlightened. let me enlighten you!" *indoctrinates you*

[clartidk123]

My dad thought Mike was a girl.

WE ARE IDOCRINATING HIM

[smosh-fessions]

Not really about any discourse but I just rewatched the Reddit Stories video w Chanse and Tommy and... did anyone else get REALLY creeped out by the last story?? I know the "gaycation" of it all is so absurd that it's funny- BUT IT WAS SO SPOOKY TO ME? I saw a couple comments mentioning that it was giving cult, and it truly was. Like, the language used- the fact that they were clearly repeating the same template to their wives over and over... a chill ran down my spine. It was so scary to me. These men are being indoctrinated into something and their wibes did the right thing untangling themselves from it, but oh my god the isolation is going to push them farther down the rabbit hole. It's so ominous, I'm so happy those women got out of that.

You're not the only one. There's something really, really off about it and it felt to me like they were also a little uncomfortable but weren't quite sure how to delve into just how unsettling it is. How do you even begin to tackle that? Especially when it can get into consent territory and blackmail and all that sensitive stuff, just on top of the oft sensitive topic of sexuality in general.

I hope those guys also find a way out of whatever the hell is happening there because it just sounded terrifying.

[mellybaggins]

Oathbreaker Chapter 80

Soldier

In this Very Special Episode, we learn Wyll and Karlach's backstory during the events of the story so far.

TW: Mind Control, character death, violence, religious indoctrination/brainwashing, persistent heavy angst throughout.

This one's a bit longer than usual, so grab a cuppa.

This chapter is part of a longfic, but can be read as a standalone Wyll/Karlach oneshot.

AO3 Link

[vesselsystem]

The fact that my PTSD symptoms are getting worse as I process makes me so fucking angry. And I know they will probably continue to get worse as I process more. I'm just so scared and angry all the time. It feels like every fucking thing triggers me. I can't avoid everything. I feel like I cant even enjoy the things I love anymore. I cant scroll social media. I cant learn about my religion. I can't enjoy horror like I used to. When im with my partners im annoyed and want to be alone, when im alone im terrified and wish I was with them. I fucking hate being this way. I hate that this is happening because of something that was done to me not because of something I chose. I hate that I was indoctrinated so effectively that im still dealing with the ramifications 13 YEARS after leaving. Fuck you fuck you fuck you I hate this I want it to be over already.

[agrumina]

When to use the Memory Gun

[Insert “Not only this is very OC-centric and because she’s a member of the SOTBE in its first years Fiddleford isn’t portrayed as a good guy so if either of these things might bother you avoid this one + read the tags pls” disclaimer here]

When you see something outside of the ordinary.

When you have to help others and save them from a life of fear.

When embarrassing, scary and/or painful memories get too much to handle. Everyone does it, even the Founder, why shouldn’t you?

When dad asks too many questions.

When you can’t stop thinking of how you treated your old man. It was for his own good after all.

When you think too much about how sad your poor mother would be in you if she was still here. She wouldn’t understand.

When you start questioning too much about how that brat is so close to the Founder. Where is his family? Why do you care of what kind of life he does and how did he end up here?

When you have too many questions about that brat outside of what does the Founder sees in him.

When you start questioning the Founder in general.

Why are you questioning the Founder at all?

He helped you, in so many ways. He gave you a purpose.

And that’s how you repay Him?

And isn’t this your whole life? Both in and outside of work?

Are you saying you took the wrong path all this time? Are you saying He, you and the others are in the wrong?

Are you really that ungrateful? 

Are you really having second thoughts just because there are times He yells (He has huge responsibilities on his shoulders, it’s only natural it gets too much sometimes) and just because some of His mannerisms make you worry?

This is wrong.

No, you’re losing control on yourself and your thoughts again. You know how to handle that.

It’s alright. It’s for your own good.

It worked. It always does. You don’t remember what you were worrying about.

You’re so grateful.

When that guy who trusts no one gets too bothersome.

Everytime it’s necessary.

[mcnotok]

[sassypotatoe1]

I'm about to talk about cancer and religion and indoctrination and I'm going to try to address it as sensitively to all parties as possible.

Someone reposted a tiktok on one of the community Facebook groups of a very sick man, emaciated, struggling to breathe even with cannula and just all round looking very close to death. Before I get into what he said, I need everyone to know that his primary oncologist told him he is resistant to treatment and should consider hospice-based palliative care from what he's said in the video.

He claims that Jesus healed him, while he is still very much terminally ill. I know many Christians believe in miracles and divine healing, I know a ton of Christians experience miraculous healing and attribute it to God, I personally as an agnostic person don't believe it's divine healing from God but very much still miraculous, and if it brings you comfort to attribute your sudden turnaround to God I am not about to fault you for it or tell you you're wrong, it's just something I personally don't believe.

My personal belief on it is that there are some miraculous medical phenomena that can't be explained with current medical science, and there's two possibilities. Either there's some mundane explanation we just don't have yet, or it really is an act of divine healing and I'm wrong. I'm willing to accept both, and I'm also willing to accept that if I'm wrong about God and divinity then I am and I will accept whatever punishment divinity has for me for not believing.

What I do have a problem with is the exploitation of someone's suffering and pain to convert them. Here we have a man that has been convinced by a pastor that his doctor lied about him being terminal, and that he should give his life to Jesus to be cured, when he did he was told he was cured when he clearly is still very terminally ill, and then given the caveat of "even if you die now you won't go to hell but you need to spread the gospel by telling everyone about how miraculously Jesus has healed you and tell them to also accept Jesus into their life or they will go to hell and they will suffer and they will die if they get cancer because only Jesus can heal you".

When I still did believe in divinity, I believed that God gave scientists and doctors the knowledge and wisdom to understand the universe and medicine to be able to help people get better and that that was how the miracle of healing worked in modern times. The part of me that still likes the idea of divinity still likes that explanation, and I emplore religious people to adopt the same belief, because from my perspective if God gave us the knowledge to make medicine and develop medical technology and surgeries to reduce suffering, it would be slighting God to reject these things in their name.

But telling someone who's very definitely still dying and very definitely still ill that they've been healed by divine grace and that the doctors who studied and qualified and practiced to be able to diagnose, treat and lessen his suffering are lying to him about his illness, the treatments he's undergone and become resistant to, and that he needs palliative care in a hospice because of how his illness has progressed, that just sets him up for a lot of pain and suffering before his imminent death, and people in that situation adopt one of two opinions.

The first is "God may not have healed my body but he's healed my soul and my suffering will be over soon and I'll be in heaven", which is a pretty healthy way to cope with imminent death and intense suffering and I will happily allow people that belief in their own personal capacity, as long as they don't manipulate others with it. Shouting on street corners and don't let your left hand know what your right is doing and all that.

The second, and ime more common, is "God was supposed to have healed me, why would I still be suffering and dying, why would a god of love allow such pain, he must not be real" and if I'm wrong about divinity and God really exists and the caveat for getting into heaven is believing in him (which is a different discussion because I've encountered theology that I can't confirm because it was too long ago indicating that those who don't know better will still go to heaven if they've lived a good life) then convincing someone terminal that God will heal their illness and end their suffering if they just believe when they're not going to suddenly stop being terminal and suffering is counter intuitive, exploitative and cruel.

It's especially exploitative and cruel if you use a dying man desperate for relief to spread your agenda, draw people to your church, and convert him and them to get more influence and money. That's insidious and greedy and, again, cruel and the Jesus I grew up with would turn over your tables and chase you out of the temple with a flogger/whip.

Christianity is about flouting authority in the face of oppression and immorality. It's about giving love and support. It's about appreciating, admiring and protecting all of God's creations. It's about empowering the poor, accepting the different, loving everyone, as in recognizing each and every human's inherent worth just for existing, no matter their crimes or origin or nationality or religion.

You spread the gospel by showing people the love of Jesus, the love he preached, the non-judgemental, slow to anger, selfless and giving love. The love for your fellow human beings driving you to fight against unfair authority to bring a net benefit for everyone. That's the Christianity I grew up in. Spreading the gospel is showing that love, and manipulating people with a video of a crying man in his death bed convinced he's healed and going to heaven is not.

[pandaragons]

My wtnv designs (part 2/3) or more accurately, my desert bluffs designs>:3 and headcanons LMAO

[triple-pupil]

Random thought.

I think Manny will never truly understand Diego and Sid's issues with blood family. The three unite in the loss of it but Manny's mate and cub loved him for who he was and apparently never doubted that.

Diego's pack did not see his worth as a member but as a tool and weapon, their "love" was conditional, manipulative and fake

And Sid's family, from my understanding, simply hated his guts SO much they just prefered to abandon him and possibly leave that social creature to die in the wild.

Something I would've loved to see would be the trio bonding and seeing these things about each other. Manny loves and protects and connects with the boys but Sid and Diego can have an intimate connection bonding over hateful/abusive families and their struggle accepting that.

But maybe too could Diego and Manny understand each other by their serious masks formed by need and their need to protect their herd, as well as maybe issues of self-worth if said mission to protect their loved ones fail. Idk. (I think they had something a bit like that in the third movie? But focusing a lot on their masculinity and, not gonna lie, their fragile view of it- Idk, I'm not a born man, I don't get it-)

[starleska]

just saw Heretic (2024) and am delighted. without spoiling anything, regardless of your religious conviction or lack thereof you'll be challenged on your faith, morals, and the question of whether or not belief constitutes reality, and whether the answer to that matters at all. please go and see it!!!!

[0809sysblings]

when it comes to Amane.... i think "right" vs "wrong" should be looked at with a little more nuance, maybe...

was killing Shidou wrong? yeah. but did Amane actually know it was wrong? maybe this is a controversial take, but i don't think she did. i think Amane knows others would see it as wrong, but that's not the same thing as knowing something is wrong.

Amane's belief system was almost entirely created by the cult (i say almost because it's clear she still, at least sometimes, has beliefs of her own that go against some of what the cult taught her). i think Amane knows what's right vs wrong when it comes to both her cult and to outsiders. but that doesn't mean she actually believes and knows what is Right vs Wrong.

if you are not taught something is wrong, and are even taught it is right... then why would you think it's wrong? right and wrong are not inherent things people believe. there are some things that may be inherently off putting, thanks to evolution (nature), but those things can be overridden by your environment (nurture).

and this isn't determined by age or intelligence. i don't think it's an insult to Amane's intelligence to say she doesn't know right from wrong. nor is it treating her like a child to say she doesn't understand this. even if she was a teenager, even if she was an adult, i would still be saying this.

she said in one of her interrogation answers that she believes what she did would be met with praise by those she respects (the cult).

What do the people you respect think about your sin? I just followed what I've been taught. So obviously they'll praise me and tell me that I did good.

she does not know it was wrong, because she does not know the cult is wrong.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

NOTES ABOUT OSDD-2

Note: these are just various things I found through researching different terms related to the idea of OSDD-2 that I am compiling. More will be added on eventually, this is all because I’m curious about the topic.

Dissociative disorders as a whole are still very under researched and misunderstood, particularly the other three example presentations of Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (OSDD).

And similar to disorders such as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and Other Specified Dissociative Disorder type 1 (OSDD-1), attempts to create the environment, conditions for, or research Other Specified Dissociative Disorder type 2 (OSDD-2) would be unethical, unsafe, and likely illegal.

Also note that no one is ever diagnosed with anything like “OSDD-2” or “OSDD-3”they’re all just OSDD with a reason listed as to why. Such as OSDD (identity disturbance due to intense prolonged coercive persuasion.) I say this because finding literature and studies on OSDD-2 by looking for OSDD-2 specifically is very hard, so I had to look for things like “brainwashing,” “torture,” “captivity,” “identity confusion,” “cults,” “thought reform,” “coercive persuasion,” etc.

I do not have OSDD-2, neither have I experienced the types of trauma, abuse, manipulation, control and environments that can cause it. I am also not a mental health professional of any kind, so take these all with grain of salt, of course. The topic just interests me, and I want to know more about it—so I’m keeping a list of information, and sharing so others can read too if they want. Do your own research, listen to professionals and those who have the actual disorder/have experienced the things mentioned.

This is all not exactly organized, just writing down things, linking, and copying and pasting as I come across information. Will update with whatever new or interesting things I find.

————

1. Brainwashing in Cults:

Replacing old identity with cult identity: Cults often systematically isolate members from their previous lives (family, friends, jobs) and gradually instill a new identity within the group. This can involve forced surrender of belongings, finances, and even relationships.

* Love-bombing and manipulation: Cults use intense affection and validation ("love-bombing") to create dependency, followed by manipulation and control to enforce obedience and reshape the individual's beliefs.

* Forced confession and rituals: Members may be pressured to confess "sins" and undergo rituals to signify their commitment to the new identity, further solidifying their break from their former selves. 

2. Coercive Control in Abusive Relationships:

* Isolating the victim: Abusers frequently isolate victims from their support systems (friends, family), making them more dependent on the abuser and limiting outside influences that could challenge the manipulation.

* Gaslighting and disorienting the victim: Abusers may deny or distort the victim's reality, making them question their own memory, sanity, and sense of self. This can be achieved through inconsistent treatment, contradictory information, and deliberate confusion.

* Control over daily life: The abuser may control the victim's finances, communication, freedom of movement, and even what they wear or eat, further diminishing their sense of autonomy and identity.

3. Political Prisoners and Thought Reform:

* Attacking core beliefs: Captors in political prisons historically used techniques like isolation, sleep deprivation, and propaganda to break down prisoners' identities and replace their beliefs with opposing ones.

* Forced confessions and denunciations: Prisoners might be compelled to confess to actions they did not commit or to denounce their previous ideologies, creating self-betrayal and further confusion about their identity.

* Creating a sense of shame and guilt: Manipulators can make individuals feel responsible for their situation or past actions, making them more vulnerable to adopting the manipulator's narrative and identity. 

In summary, brainwashing and coercive control techniques aim to dismantle a person's existing identity and replace it with a new one that serves the manipulator's agenda. This is often achieved through a combination of isolation, psychological pressure, control over basic needs, and manipulation of information and emotions. The resulting identity confusion can be profound and have long-lasting psychological effects. 

Identity confusion in the context of brainwashing involves methods that systematically undermine an individual's sense of self, leading to the adoption of a new, often manipulated, identity. 

examples of how identity confusion can manifest within brainwashing.

1. Cult Indoctrination:

* Isolation: Cults isolate members from their social networks and external information, creating a sole source of "reality" that is controlled by the leader. This isolation makes it difficult for individuals to challenge or verify the group's beliefs, leading to a breakdown of their prior worldview and a receptivity to adopting a new identity aligned with the cult.

* Love Bombing: Cults may shower new recruits with excessive affection and attention, creating a false sense of belonging and dependency. This tactic can make individuals feel loved and accepted, making them more vulnerable to manipulation and the adoption of the group's identity to maintain that acceptance.

* Rejection of Past Identity: Cults often devalue or criticize aspects of a member's former life, such as their talents or values, contributing to confusion and a willingness to discard their old identity. 

2. Coercive Control:

* Gaslighting: Abusers may use gaslighting to make victims doubt their own memory and sanity, eroding their confidence and judgment. This leaves the victim more dependent on the abuser's perception of reality, potentially leading to the adoption of a distorted sense of self that aligns with the abuser's narrative.

* Control and Manipulation: Abusers may control aspects of the victim's life, such as their finances, social interactions, and daily routine, to create dependence and limit their autonomy. This gradually diminishes the victim's sense of self-reliance and fosters a dependence on the abuser, potentially leading to the adoption of a passive or submissive identity.

* Negative Reinforcement: Through a system of punishments for "disobedience," abusers can instill fear and dependence, creating an environment where the victim prioritizes avoiding punishment over maintaining their own identity. 

3. Political Prisoner Interrogation:

* Identity Attack: Interrogators can systematically attack a prisoner's sense of self, denying their past identity, values, and loyalties. This can involve belittling, humiliation, and the constant repetition of messages that challenge the prisoner's core beliefs.

* Creating Guilt and Shame: Interrogators can create overwhelming feelings of guilt and shame by forcing confessions or denouncements of loved ones or beliefs. This can lead to a breaking point where the prisoner's sense of self is severely fragmented and vulnerable to manipulation.

* Offering Salvation: After breaking down the prisoner's identity, interrogators may offer a path to "salvation" or relief through confession and adoption of the new ideology. This creates a powerful incentive to abandon their old identity and embrace the new one as a way to escape their suffering. 

Brainwashing: Mental Health Decline and Identity Erosion.

brainwashing | Cults, Indoctrination, Manipulation

BRAINWASHING FROM A PSYCHOLOGICAL VIEWPOINT

Coercive Persuasion and Attitude Change

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform

The Psychology of Torture

A 1 hour long video on the psychology of coercion and identity disturbance in sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, and how it often causes victims/survivors to relapse.

Coercion in Human Trafficking (pt.2)

[dykedvonte]

what do you think Danse does to keep himself busy after blind betrayal, specifically if he's living in sanctuary? I just love your takes on him a lot haha

I think Danse is very lost in any settlement but especially Sanctuary. It was the first and very close-knit at that with the small group the Sole Survivor founded it with. Each time they would invite a new companion to live there it was like adding a pillar to the community and represented what the Minute Men stood for when it came ot uniting and protecting the commonwealth as one. I am not going to say it's cliquey, in fact I feel like SoSu and Preston/Sturges would go out of their way to make newcomers feel welcome but for Danse that is very different.

He (from my playthrough experience) is one of the later companions. I ran around a lot and got a good portion of the companions and their quest before act one was done. He is also one of the few companions who openly thinks lowly of life in the commonwealth and certain citizens (if not all citizens to an extent). He did not introduce himself to Sanctuary to make friends or roots. So when he gets stuck there under the SoSu's "orders" (not letting him rot in sorrow in some random bunker) he doesn't have any comfort or companionship, in fact, I think he has more tensions and beef tbh.

I imagine the first weeks or even a month or two were rough. I don't think it is stated enough that like Danse went to that bunker intending to follow Brotherhood protocols and kill himself. SoSu may have convinced him not to in the moment but with someone like Danse, so rigid and stuck in an ideology even after it spits in his face, it's not unlikely he has a weird guilt about being alive at first. It doesn't help that I know in my heart that a few of the more petty or insensitive companions or settlers would tease him about it (playful meanness) thinking he was adjusting well (or not caring) to the Sanctuary life and coming to terms with his identity. Sometimes they go too far and it's easy to tell he's gotten back into the headspace, looking at his reflection, trying to remember concrete dates for his memories, etc..

I have this head canon that SoSu recognized this pattern as they had to have immense survivor's guilt (especially after being in Kellogs brain) about surviving the vault. They had the same idea about making things "fair" for the other vault dwellers and Shaun was the only thing between them and those thoughts for a while. For the first weeks it was a lot of SoSu monitoring him and making sure he was adjusting and not falling back into that thinking, y'know the whole "I am a disgrace and abomination against the Brotherhood and humanity. The only thing I can do to no longer sully the honor of either is to kill mys-" Like stopping that with minor distractions.

It would be a lot of small work and building projects and patrols for lost scavengers or to make sure no one is stalking the place. It's nice for him for a while, he's getting social interaction and he's not dead in the eyes of at least one Brotherhood member, especially one of as high rank as the SoSu. But it's also really unhealthy. Danse was trained and raised in a militaristic pseudo-religious faction. As much as there seemed to be casualness towards comrades there was a strict structure and order. He shoves the SoSu into that role and probably gets nick-named as their shadow during this period.

They are his only goal as he has nothing else and it shows bad. The rest of the settlement notices he trails after them and only really does his own thing when it's part of a task he was doing for, with or assigned by the Sole survivor. It's not an obsession with them specifically but he has lost his entire understanding of life and this is the one thing that stayed concrete. He does what he's asked of because following the Sole survivor has at least kept him belonging somewhere and why mess that up?

I am sure SoSu is not oblivious and is actively trying to figure out how to get Danse to start socializing and trying to actually settle into the community but for the time being Danse would treat himself like the machine he perceives himself as; Overworking himself as he believes machines don't need the same amount of rest, isolating himself and mostly trying to not have a mental breakdown every time he get into the power armor that is very much not his issued Brotherhood of Steel tech. He openly does this in respect of the General who hates it and makes everyone else uncomfortable.

this was very long just to say I think Danse just works himself to the bone all day and purposely puts thoughts in his already fragile psyche that everyone hates him and only tolerates his presence to not seem Synth-phobic and the Sole survivor's favor.

[shit-people-probably-didnt-say]

We need to study what causes extremely religious people to talk like that