andreal831 - Tumblr blog

[andreal831]

“Do not confuse my presence here with friendship. I am only here to make sure this works for Elijah. I don’t care if you live or die.”

[andreal831]

Do you like the character of Kai Parker?

My feelings for Kai are similar to my feelings for Lucien. I love/hate him. Honestly, they are basically the same character.

I love them as a villain but hate when people try to defend them or make them into something they just aren't. They are just uncomplicated serial killers who take joy in the pain and suffering of others. And that can be entertaining in fictional worlds.

Kai does not get a shred of redemption. His only slight redeeming qualities are his somewhat emotions he begins to feel after he kills his brother. And even these emotions aren't enough to stop him from being a terror to everyone. He kills his sister while she is pregnant at her wedding. He is a terrible person who abused everyone he came in contact with.

Yes, he's funny and yes, he's attractive. But he is a villain through and through. It doesn't matter that he has a sad childhood. It doesn't excuse everything he did after that. His anger wasn't just towards those who hurt him as a child, but everyone he came in contact with.

Again, I liked his character for what it was. I liked that they never tried to redeem him and he just died. And even when he came back, he was still awful. I've seen he comes back in Legacies, and I cheated and googled that he does die again, which I love. I know most of my favorite characters are villains and I love to deal with that complexity, but I also love a good, simple villain. Especially in a show with so many "morally grey" or "complex villains." Sometimes we just need someone to be uncomplicatedly bad. I also think they needed a character like Kai in TVD after the Mikaelsons left. I know they had Silas but I was a little disappointed in Silas, he almost felt too juvenile. Whereas Kai was over here actually making me worried for my favs while at the same time being entertaining.

Basically I love the character, he doesn't rank high for me in favorites, but I enjoy the seasons he is in.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

I think that in the what of if Klaus had been born a woman, everything would be much more interesting, for some reason Henry died and everyone became vampires. Then a female Klaus would meet male Hayley.

I think it would be interesting to see Klaus as a woman throughout the show, just for the fact that I do love a good woman villain. As I discussed in my previous post about it, I do think it would change the level of abuse he had during his formative years, which could have a massive impact on how he treated others. The character we see as Klaus is a result of a thousand years of experiences so it's hard to say which events could have made him a different character, but I do think the treatment from Mikael is the reason for his paranoia with his family and his constant doubting their love. Without this maybe he would have had a less abusive relationship with his siblings. However, I also think part of that developed from the years of Mikael chasing and his narcissism which would still be there as a woman.

I would be fine with Hayley staying a woman. I hate when vampires get pregnant. It's one thing for me to believe they can get someone else pregnant but it's a whole other thing to say they can be pregnant. The constant changing of the body that is required for that goes against everything they say about vampires. So I would just say in that world, we just don't have a miracle baby.

I feel like I've seen a few fics about this kind of story. I feel like his character would wind up being similar to Katherine since they have a lot of base traits. Although, who knows, with Klaus as a woman potentially with different trauma, we may not have had a Katherine Pierce.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

The Originals messed a lot up but the best thing they did was making a real-life racist & homophobe act as ordained priest to marry his on-screen sister and her black wife.

[andreal831]

TVD opinion :

The fact that nobody could make Elena turn her humanity back on....

Not her ex, not her boyfriend, not her friend Caroline, not Bonnie, no !

It was Matt ! Matt, her ex-lover and best friend. He is no supernatural being. He's a freaking human being. He is no witch, no vampire, no werewolf, no nothing. A freaking human being.

He is the one, the only one, who was able to make her turn her humanity back on.

The moment she saw him dead right before her eyes (I mean he's not actually dead, he was wearing a special ring that would make him come back alive, but she didn't know that)....

She saw him dead, just like this. Damon had just snapped his neck. Matt was freaking dead. And in a snap of a finger, her humanity was back on. For Matt. For him. Not anyone else. Him. You see how deep the connection is there ?

I mean, you can say whatever you want about Matt. I personally really like him, but you can say whatever you want. You just gotta respect that ! At that moment, this dude was the only one able to make a vampire feel. Feel so deeply it hurts. It breaks your heart so bad you feel like you're dying yourself.

Love him. 🩷

[andreal831]

Klaus literally dying for Camille (he let Mikael stake him without knowing he would return to life, hence he thought he would die forever) and saying she's his one and only true romantic connection is so forgotten by this fandom

[andreal831]

TVDU and Morality

I've recently said, a few times, that the morality debates in the TVDU fandom are boring, and some people have gotten offended so I thought I would explain.

First, this idea of hypocrisy in the fandom is laughable. The amount of times I've been called a hypocrite because I've called out problematic behavior, while also liking a problematic character. The gut reaction for so many in this fandom when their favorite character is being criticized is to shift the conversation onto a completely different character and even to the commenter themselves. This is boring and even downright offensive at times. Every single character has been a hypocrite at times. It doesn't inherently mean someone is bad. It means they are "human" and life can make hypocrites of all of us at times. Also, just to clarify, I am not a hypocrite for merely liking a problematic character. I promise I have never nor will I ever commit the acts that I criticize these characters for, which would be the definition of hypocrisy. I have also never told anyone they can't like certain characters.

We have these complicated characters and none of them are "good" people because, guess what, people aren't just one or the other. Everyone has the capability to be "bad" or "good." Trying to put a character firmly on one side is a generalization and ignores so much nuance. Some of their actions may be completely bad or completely good, but typically even that is an oversimplification. Are there characters that seem to do more bad things or more good things, definitely. Are their some characters that cross certain, unnecessary lines, absolutely. Are we allowed to criticize and question every character, please do! That's literally what media literacy is about.

Every single one of these characters has had completely selfish moments (except maybe Bonnie) and every single one of them has had moments of selflessness. These acts don't inherently demonize a character or automatically redeem one. This is what it means to have interesting, complex debates about characters. Looking at the characters as a whole and having open discussions of what it means. We can still love the character and acknowledge the good and the bad of the character.

Another annoying point that is always brought up is, "they weren't born evil, they were made that way." Yes, we get it. No one is born evil. Whether it is mental illness or life events that shape a person, they still have to take responsibility for their own actions. Obviously certain mental illnesses didn't have treatments for a very long time, but that doesn't just allow people to be serial killers.

Every single character has dealt with trauma, and how you react says a lot about a person's character. Separating out characters to say well "x" didn't deserve it but when they became "x" they did. No one deserves good or bad things. I know I say it all the time, they deserved better, but when I do, I'm being facetious. I'm saying I wanted better for that character, better writing, better storylines, a better ending, etc. That phrasing implies that some people deserve better lives than others and I just morally don't agree. No one deserves trauma or abuse. That logic only furthers the cycle of abuse. Now, that being said, people are responsible for their own actions. Spend centuries creating enemies, and guess what, a lot of bad things are going to happen to you.

But the real debates I enjoy having, and have been fortunate to find so many people to engage in these debates, is the morality of the decisions in context of the characters. I like to apply similar logic from the Trolley Problem. If you don't know what that is, enjoy this tik tok I made of Cami teaching the Mikaelsons.

Essentially, many of the characters weight their options, like Jeremy killing Kol and thousands of vampires with it in order to find the cure. Kol is a thousand year old serial killer and is attempting to kill Jeremy, but again Kol is attempting to stop Silas from rising. Neither side is inherently right or wrong. There is a debate to be had.

In the majority of situations in the show there is a debate to be had. The only exceptions being any SA. I will never debate the morality of these actions. Even for immoral characters, there is a line to be drawn.

These debates get even more complex in TO because we move into a world where nearly every character has done absolutely horrendous things. It's okay to sit down and say, "This thing that x did was awful, but I can see their reasoning." It is not justifying their actions, but allowing the characters to be the complex morally corrupt characters that they all are.

[andreal831]

I feel guilty: In some ways, I feel Hayley and the Mikaelsons set up Hope to fail. Now, with canon included, I think Hope did find her way - but ironically feel like her story should have been "Klaus, Hayley, and Elijah are what the remaining family tied to Hope but with the three dead - Hope is on her own, and having to navigate a world where she loves her dad but everyone is just as entitled to hate him and come into conflict with that". (Sorry, that's a long one). Basically because of how morally dubious the TVD gang (+ Dorian) could be - it makes sense that they know to separate Klaus's actions from Hope - but what about those who did not have that luxury and only remember a monster that was Klaus? I would use Tyler's story, but in a vague gesture: Hope needs to earn someone's trust after her father (or other relatives) brutalized them and has no way to defend or justify it. Essentially getting someone's trust for her as "Only Hope" and not the surname she's connected to. Or the more common arc, Hope realizing just because she loves her family doesn't mean she can overwrite the centuries of cruel history they left behind.

I'm not saying the Mikaelsons didn't love Hope, but Hope is unique (not just as a tribrid but the only living blood relative who hasn't been alive for a millennia) and had pressure on her that shouldn't be there. Hayley loved her, but should have warned her that living in a town that still had - living - people her dad fought with and hurt should have taken precedence over keeping a torch lit for their relationship. Klaus had his chance to be someone in this world, now Hope has to live in it and make something of herself - in his name or by herself.

(Sorry if this comes off anti. While I have anti thoughts and do like Hope, I think she could have stood to have a better characterized arc.)

I'll start by prefacing this and say that I haven't seen much of Legacies, I only know a lot of the show from edits.

But I agree that the show did a pretty terrible job with really diving into the cycle of trauma and pressures that were put on Hope since before she was even born. They were so focused on making Klaus redeemable and centering Hope around Klaus that they didn't allow for her character to have the development she needed.

I really like what I know about Hope's character and I even look past the wild hoops the writers had to jump through to make her existence possible. But for a show that centered around a magical, miracle baby, they sidelined her character a lot. The writers were so focused on setting up Legacies that they forgot to give the characters the development that was necessary for it to get there.

People love to say that Klaus broke the cycle of abuse with Hope, but he didn't. It just manifested in a different way. He never physically harmed her, but he neglected, abandoned, and emotionally harmed her repeatedly. This trauma is something that Hope doesn't even get to work through.

Hope at 7 years old seems more or less well adjusted. I think Hayley did a good job protecting her from everything. She missed her family in an abstract way because she didn't truly understand what she was missing. She had Hayley and Mary. Klaus allowing himself to be captured and held prisoner was the best thing he ever did for Hope. She was able to live for seven years safe and loved. I may get hate for it, but Hope was better off living as a Marshall away from the Mikaelsons.

I don't necessarily think Hayley was wrong for letting Hope grow up believing the best in her family. At that point, Hope was very isolated. She deserved to have a childhood without it being taken away by the Mikaelsons. But I do think Hayley should have had more conversations with her as she got older, especially if she was going to a school where it was likely to come up.

As soon as she is back with the Mikaelsons, her life once again revolved around what she can do for Klaus. I'm not saying they all didn't love Hope, but she was never allowed to just exist. The fact that she used to keep points when she was "good" or "bad" shows just how much she felt it. She had to be perfect because if she wasn't, she wouldn't be worth their sacrifice or Klaus might slip back into a terrible person.

I've talked about it before, but sending Hope to the Salvatore School made no sense to me. She was safer in New Orleans. She had her mother's pack, he vampires would protect her for Josh and Marcel, Vincent wouldn't let anything happen to her, and she had her mother. Hayley sending her daughter away to boarding school for most of the year made zero sense. I watched the first few episodes of Legacies before TO and I genuinely thought they all died when she was a child because of how she acted with Alaric and the twins. She desperately wanted a family, something Hayley had done a great job providing in the past, but sending her away to school made Hope feel neglected. She was already being neglected by Klaus, she didn't need to feel abandoned by both parents.

And, as you said, she is sent to a school that is run by a man who hates her father, in a town full of people who hate her whole family. She had to listen to people talking about how awful they were, and it was all warranted, which makes it worse for her. She didn't get to attempt to process that on her own. She had to do it while constantly being compared to her family. Alaric was always using it as a way to punish her. The adults clearly were not mature enough to separate Hope from what her family did and they had no business being in charge of her.

The entire terrible legacy of the Mikaelsons was put on Hope's shoulder and the show just ignored that trauma because if they didn't, they would have to admit that Klaus wasn't redeemed, everyone just moved on. So then the people who didn't just move on look like the bad guys. Alaric had every right to hate Klaus, Tyler would have every right to hate both of Hayley and Klaus. They don't owe the Mikaelsons anything, but it is also not fair that Hope has to take the brunt of their anger because Klaus died and got away with literal murder. Hope was a child and shouldn't have had to work to prove herself. She deserved love and support and understanding, like every other child. She deserved to have the space and support to sort out her feelings toward her family, the good and the bad. She deserved to yell at Klaus for abandoning her, to be angry at Elijah for putting that pressure on her, to be angry at her aunts and uncles for abandoning her after her parents died. She deserved to figure out who she was outside of the legacy of pain and torment her family left behind, but as far as I can tell, she is never given that time. All of this would have given her character more depth. Coming to the realization that her family were terrible people but she still loved them is a hard pill to swallow, but it was something she needed to come to terms with. Glorifying Klaus and erasing Hayley, did very little for her development except to play on Klaus' popularity for views.

I love the Mikaelsons but each and every one of them were terrible at being family and terrible people. Hope suffered because of this.

Thanks for the ask! Sorry if I just went on a tangent and didn't fully answer your question.

[andreal831]

Can you imagine what it would be like if Klaus had been born a woman?

Everything would have been completely different and they likely never would have been turned.

The biggest difference is that it would have been easier for Esther to hide her affair. We see Klaus as a child doesn't have a warrior's heart. While he carried the werewolf curse, we see him resistant to harming others. He wants to whittle and paint and take care of his siblings. This is something that Mikael resents from him. People always say that Mikael never gave a reason for his hatred of Klaus, but we can infer what it was. And the show confirms it. Esther gave Klaus a charmed necklace to keep him weak and this angered Mikael who wanted warrior sons.

We also know from the show that Mikael didn't approve of his daughter's wielding swords. This would have been perfect. Esther could have still given Klaus the necklace but Mikael wouldn't have viewed Klaus' lack of strength as weakness, rather he would have found her to be an appropriate daughter. As a daughter, there also would be less chance of her triggering her curse since she wouldn't be a warrior.

Mikael would have seen her as a second chance for Freya. We don't see him do this with Rebekah but we know that Mikael celebrated Klaus' birth. And it's not just because he's a boy and a warrior. Otherwise he would have had that reaction to Elijah. It was the timing of it. It had been long enough after Freya's "death" that he was ready to love a child again. He would have viewed a daughter, especially one that likely would have looked like Freya, as a sign. Mikael loved Klaus until Klaus started to disappoint him because he was "weak." As a girl, Mikael wouldn't have had this disappointment.

Now this likely would have changed as she got older and eventually triggered her curse. Mikael would have been even more devastated that this second chance to protect and love a daughter was all a lie. I don't put it past Mikael to try and kill her in anger. However, I do think that Elijah likely would have been more protective of her than he was of Klaus. To me, I always viewed Elijah's resistance to stopping the abuse because that's just how Mikael trained his sons. But I can't see Elijah tolerating that with Rebekah or another sister. He would tell her to run and stop Mikael from going after her.

Even if Klaus' personality was the exact same, I just feel like the day Henrik died would have played out differently. They would have tried to convince Kol to go with them since Henrik was too small for a weapon and Klaus likely wouldn't have known how to use a weapon. Klaus is smart enough to not go spy on the wolves without some kind of defense. Kol, as a witch, would have been able to protect them. If Henrik had never been killed, they never would have been turned into vampires.

Thanks for the ask! This was interesting to think about.

[andreal831]

Have you ever thought about writing haylijah one shots? It could help for whenever you get stuck writing TGW or any of your other fics. Idk just a thought, and honestly there are not enough haylijah fics out there.

I completely agree that there are not nearly enough haylijah fics out there. I desperately want more. I have considered writing short fics on the side, that's why I started writing Come Home. However, I am really bad at writing one shots. You've clearly read my stories so you know that brevity is not my strength. I do write my TGW Outtakes when I need some help getting unstuck or tend to jump around and write different parts of the story, but really my problem now is lack of time. I tend to hyperfixate on things so I'll focus on here or on tik tok or on writing. I'm trying to make myself focus on writing right now so hopefully we will get a lot more updates across all of my ongoing stories.

But if you (or anyone) have any ideas of a one-shot you would like to see, I'm always open to write something!

Thanks for the ask and for reading my stories!

[andreal831]

What do you think of heretics?

I prefer supernatural shows that have a closed world, meaning they have set rules and don't deviate from this. TVD started very closed with just the three supernatural creatures: vampires, werewolves, and witches. It's also why I couldn't get into Legacies because they kept introducing new creatures. It removes any stakes or logic when they do that.

That being said, I really enjoyed the heretics.

They still technically played by the same rules. We always knew there were different types of witches who draw their magic from different elements. So introducing witches who have to draw their magic from others was so interesting. It actually makes them weaker witches since they have to rely on draining magic from others, however, when combined with vampires, it makes them nearly unstoppable.

Witches can take down vampires so easily. The only advantage vampires have is that they are quicker and can use the element of surprise. Heretics eliminate this since they can be just as fast. It was a nice change of pace in TVD to watch the MF Gang go up against enemies they couldn't beat since they typically had so much plot armor. Like come on, how did they survive the Mikaelsons??

I will say, you can easily push back on the logic of it all, the "loophole" which allows siphoner to maintain their magic. But since we know from Bonnie's mom that it felt like she was cut off from nature, which is where other witches derive their magic, and since turning into a vampire gives siphoners constant access, I can buy the loophole.

I do find it hard to believe that Valerie was the first ever heretic. Vampires had existed for 800 years at that point. You're telling me in 800 years, no siphoner witch had ever been turned into a vampire?

I also found it ridiculous that Valerie just disappeared and never made a reappearance, even in Legacies. She was the only known living siphoner, which could have helped Lizzie or could have taken the Hollow from Hope instead of letting children do it. I also feel like Hayley said she found a Siphoner witch to take the cure from Freya in the beginning of Season 4, which would have had to be Valerie, yet they didn't explain that further.

But as a whole I enjoyed the storyline. There were parts that definitely could have been written better, but the characters were interesting and made you root for them at times even when they opposed the main characters.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Klaus Mikaelson: *acts like the most magnificent dick for centuries*

Everyone: *assumes the worst of him cuz he is 100% capable of all the shit he was accused of*

Also Klaus, with a single tear running down his cheek: Is that because I'm a bastard and the unloved puppy?

[andreal831]

Do you like Rebekah and Hayley's friendship?

I like Rebekah and Hayley's friendship but I do think the fandom overhypes it sometimes because of Phoebe and Claire's friendship.

I think the writers intended for Hayley and Rebekah to be super close, like sisters but when Claire decided to leave the show it fell flat. I have no evidence but I've always believed that they came up with the idea of Freya's storyline simply because Claire Holt decided she couldn't continue as a regular on the show. They needed a sister to even out all the men. So I think the closeness we see from Freya and Hayley in the later seasons was originally meant for Rebekah and Hayley. But with how the show played out, Freya and Hayley or Hayley and Cami end up having closer friendships than Rebekah and Hayley do.

I wish Claire would have stayed, but I also kind of like that she got to be free of everything for a lot of the show. However, because of this, Rebekah and Hayley are more of long distance friends rather than sisters.

We don't even get to see Rebekah's reaction to finding out Hayley's dead. They have minimal reactions after the first half of season 1 and as far as we know don't keep in contact nearly at all while Rebekah is gone. For instance, when Rebekah comes back in season 3, she isn't even aware that Hayley was no longer living in the compound. She was daggered months after Hayley moved out and we saw in the beginning of season 3 that she was keeping in touch with Freya, but not Hayley when Hayley's curse is broken.

The writers constantly did a terrible job developing off screen friendships. And even the ones we get, they always put on the backburner for the romantic relationships. The writers need to learn the importance of platonic relationships.

I love both the characters and I do enjoy their friendship, but I wish it would have been more. They probably don't even rank in my top five friendships on the show simply because we see so little of them actually being friends.

Thanks for the ask!

[andreal831]

Protective Elijah

[andreal831]

Is it just me or was it super problematic when Klaus named Marcel.

He knew this boy for five seconds and then decides he has a right to name him. He learns that Marcel's mother is dead but asks no other questions about his family. Did he have aunts, uncles? Did he even want to be taken in by the Mikaelsons? Why couldn't he come up with his own name? He was old enough to make that decision. It would allow him some kind of control and ownership over himself after having none at all for his entire life. Even the fact that the writers didn't allow his mother to name him so that Klaus could do it, asserting some kind of ownership over Marcel. Klaus names him after a Roman god, completely erasing Marcel's culture/heritage.

[andreal831]

I got a lot of edits on my fyp prior to watching any TVDU show so I knew a solid amount of the plot lines prior to watching either show, which also means I knew what characters were normalized to be hated/loved. I started these shows and expected to absolutely despise Matt, Elena, Tyler, and Cami. None of them are my favorite, but I never understood the hate for any of them whatsoever.

The Matt hate just makes no sense, I’m convinced people just want to “fit in” and hate the person that everyone else hates. You pretty much explained everything I would say for him so I’ll hold back a bit here. And yeah, I’m tired of people pretending he’s not attractive cause there is not a single actor on this show that doesn’t look good.

Everyone calls Elena a crybaby, but if they had lost the amount of people that she had before they’re even 20 years old, I guarantee you they’d be crying even more than she did. And calling her selfish? She very rarely ever put herself over anyone. There’s also the argument that she ‘played Stefan’ which in my opinion is just straight out wrong, it’s not like she was pretending to be in love with him while she was with him, but if you hate her for that, you’d have to hate like half the show. I swear everyone dated everyone within that friend group, why do people only hate on her for it? Also this has nothing to do with my point, but why does everyone hate on her NH era? I liked it, it gave her character something different.

Everyone hates on Tyler for one of two reasons. One being that he tried to SA Vicki in season 1, which you would think is a valid excuse, but then they go onto say Klaus, Damon, and/or Katherine is their favorite character (and I’m saying this as my Damon and Klaus are both in my top 5 TVDU characters). The second reason would be something along the lines of Tyler wanting to get revenge on Klaus. I do think he went too far with trying to kill Hayley/hope, but aside from that, he had every right to get revenge on Klaus. He killed his mom and practically ruined his life, including messing with his relationship with Caroline. I actually love Forewood, but I don’t think they could’ve been endgame after that. So I don’t get why people hate on him for leaving Caroline, because I feel like continuing to lead her on when his head is nowhere near the right space would’ve been worse.

Then there’s cami, which is honestly the most confusing one out of all to me. I completely understand her not being your favorite, especially if you’re into more of the anti heroes or villains (like me), but I do not understand why people just absolutely despise her. She plays a major part in the originals, especially early on, as she is the only person Klaus seems to care about listening to whatsoever. He isn’t paying Hayley any sort of attention, and he lied to/betrayed Elijah left and right in season 1. She’s also never betrayed anyone that she considers to be friends or family. The biggest reason she’s hated on is because she ‘stole Klaus from Caroline.” 1. I genuinely just do not get what people see in klaroline. I don’t absolutely despise them, but I do not like them either. Klaus hurt her multiple times (which, by the way, why do people act like Klaus is a hero for saving Caroline from a bite he caused…?) and Caroline was manipulating him every chance she got. I totally understand the whole ‘enemies to lovers’ trope, considering I like delena, but I just do not get it here. 2. How did anyone see that Klaus (and the originals) was getting his own show, and still expect klaroline to work out? 95% of interactions they had post TO being made was complete fan service. It would’ve been WAY too difficult to do a long distance thing with two different shows, especially when neither of them were (im so gonna get hated for this) never in love with each other, they weren’t even in a relationship. Oh and back to the forewood thing real quick, Tyler had every right to be pissed at Caroline for sleeping with Klaus.

Well that turned into a klaroline bashing towards the end. For the record my top 5 characters are Damon, Elijah, kol, hayley, and Klaus in that order and there really aren’t any ships (canonical ships anyway) that I absolutely hate so.

Side note, thank you for being able to hold characters accountable. I like characters as villains/anti heroes because they are a villain/anti hero, I will never understand why people try to defend their favorite character and make them seem like a hero. Like the character for their character, don’t make them into something completely different. If you wanna debate anything further (or something entirely different) let me know, I enjoy debating about shows, I just typically can’t find anyone in this fandom (or any fandom for that matter) that is able to have an actual debate without someone starting to scream over an opinion lmao.

There really isn’t a question here I just kinda felt like ranting after reading your post about Matt Donovan so here it is. Reply to this as you please!

I was fortunate enough to watch the shows before I got into the fandom so I didn't get spoilers (at least for TVD), but more importantly, I didn't have anyone to influence me on which characters to like or not. Which was why I was so surprised when I joined the fandom and saw so much hatred. But I do think some people just "bandwagon" hate characters. Especially Matt. Because anytime I ask people why, they can't even truly express why they *hate* him.

Elena was never my favorite character but I loved early seasons of Elena. I even enjoyed her NH era. I didn't like her sire bond era much. But she definitely gets too much hate. Even at times when I think she can be selfish, she's still miles better than the men the fandom loves.

I've actually posted about Tyler before, you can find that here. Sure, he's done questionable/problematic things, but who hasn't? The hate he gets is ridiculous, especially because it always comes from Damon or Klaus stans. I actually like Caroline and adored Forewood, but I hated how she handled the breakdown of their relationship. I blame the writers. They continuously tanked Caroline's character in order to get views with klaroline.

I love Cami and she is the one character that I truly believe has done no wrong. Cami was truly a turning point for Klaus. Cami was not only an important person for Klaus but for the entire Mikaelson family and the entirety of New Orleans. I also wrote about that recently. But yes, 100% of the hate she gets is because of Klaroline stans. I used to be indifferent to Klaroline. Like I don't like them because they are toxic and I would never ship them, and there are plenty of ships I feel this way about, but the fandom has made me actively dislike them. Klaroline had no possible way of working out and was just lust, but people build them up in their head and then attacked and harassed a real life person because of their delusions.

I'm glad you found my post and enjoyed it! I love finding people that want to engage and have actual discussions about the fandom. Too many people get so set in their views and can't discuss the characters without getting angry. I completely agree. We can all love the characters but 99% of the characters in this show are problematic to say the least. We can love them and still acknowledge this. I love to analyze the morality of the show because it is interesting as we can't use are real life standards to do so. I obviously love over analyzing everything about the show as I spend so much time doing so.

Feel free to ask anything or reach out!

[andreal831]

What do you think of TVD's Hayley? Would you change anything about his story on the show?

We all know Hayley is one of my favorite characters but I'm going to be honest, I never really paid her much attention in TVD. I didn't watch TO until years after it had ended. I actually watched like two episodes of Legacies, not knowing it was a spin off, and got super confused. I immediately started watching TO and had kind of forgotten all of what Hayley did in TVD. I was able to love Hayley as a character completely separate from TVD Hayley.

That being said, I wouldn't change her.

Don't get me wrong, her TVD character is deeply problematic. But it sets her up well. She has probably one of the biggest character growths at the same time matching her up well to the darker themes of TO as well as the Mikaelsons family.

Hayley entered the show as the older "too cool for teen drama" character which was a nice change of pace for the TVD gang which was all about teen drama. Not only that but she is more ruthless than the characters we were used to dealing with. Hayley wasn't really introduced as a "good guy" or "bad guy," rather just another obstacle for Forewood. Which is why it was so interesting to find out she was actually double crossing everyone. It was never about the "teen drama," rather she was scheming to find her family. A very Mikaelson trait of hers.

If I would change anything, I would have made her scheming more detailed. She was a small side character so they didn't invest a lot of time into her, but it would have been a better set up to watch just how devious she could be when needed. One of the shocks for me between TO and TVD is her fighting skills. We don't really get much of a background on her except she kind of grew up on the streets. I would have liked to see more of her street smarts and even have her flirting with Klaus as some nefarious purpose. The random one night stand felt, well random.

I would have liked to see more of her backstory, but that would kind of ruin her mystery. I just hate how little of her history we get. I also like that she never really bonded with anyone in TVD. She sort of did with Tyler and considered him a friend, I personally don't think she was romantically interested in him rather befriended him for a reason and did develop a platonic attachment to him. I also think she did care for the wolves, so I would have liked to see some more remorse from her after she betrayed them. Or at least see her coming to

Hayley's character growth in TO made the most sense to me since she was so young. The Mikaelsons were over a thousand and yet seem to mature /change a lot between the two shows. But for Hayley, maturing after finding out she's pregnant makes sense. I loved watching her go from a selfish loner to a caring leader.

And of course, because I can't help myself. I would have loved for TVD Hayley to run into TVD Elijah. Just for fun.