androphagy

[androphagy]

can someone please explain to me in simple terms how this isn't transphobia

[androphagy]

in what will likely be a wildly unpopular sentiment on the korean and japanese fetishism site i truly have been getting so annoyed by an english fandom/subculture term becoming popular (in this instance, selfshipping) and then when people find the japanese equivalent they start using that instead. why do we need to pick up yumeshipping or jirai kei or whatever when we 1. already had words for those subcultures (selfshipping and e-boy/girl respectively) and 2. you never see borrowing fandom/subculture terms from china, thailand, vietnam, etc aside from of course the extremely famous korean pop bands who aren't even treated like people by what feels like most of their fanbases and said fanbases are absolutely rife with bigotry

[androphagy]

Transfem Chimera

Transmasc Manticore

Transneu Sphinx

Any questions

[androphagy]

I think these passages are very much worth the read, if not the full book, which I've included under the cut as a link. I've also added some other passages/pages in chronological order which I felt were important. Excluded, by Julia Serrano, 2013.

[androphagy]

I feel like this is a little unnecessary. This is a fairly evenly split group of transfeminine and transmasculine people saying these things because two trans men were being annoying on a post because their feelings were hurt; nothing overtly insulting. Usernames blanked out because I don't want anyone bothered.

Something I've noticed is the cudgel-like way overgeneralization is used by trans and nontrans people to target trans men and transmascs in what seems to be a derivative of "they were asking for it" (by replying to something out loud/visibly, "choosing" to be a man/align with masculinity, and many other things.) There's always a justification, a caveat, an exception, or a brush-off platitude about not being cool with people treating trans men/mascs this way...but ultimately, they're not shutting it down because of widely agreed-upon generalizations based on the behavior of a small group, and because they overtly or covertly believe in those generalizations as well.

If you can make a post about hating nontrans women and men, then swap out either term for "transmasc/trans man" (and vice versa) and there not be any difference in what you're critiquing — you're applying systemic behavior which applies to subgroups within entire demographics that are nine times out of ten much different in approach and understanding to said systemic issues. Trans men/mascs aren't cis women and they're not cis men. They do not share the same historical precedent of enacting subjugation and oppression as cis men, and they do not get the benefit of the doubt that cis women do once they're past the "observable female" stage in medical transition.

It's frustrating, and oftentimes upsetting. It's also not surprising.

[androphagy]

if you add terf shit as a terf to my post to be like "why is theyfab okay but [heinous transmisogyny] isn't?!!?)???" well it's because theyfab isn't being used by entire country's governments and leaders to torture transmascs and trans men. every pejorative towards trans women regardless of origin are.

also, it's because i don't like you, as an individual. you're better off as fertilizer.

[androphagy]

@ameliaaltare i'm tagging you here because i don't want to have an argument on her post, but you don't need to lie about my post when reading it and seeing what i was talking about (with evidence), which is the fact that's being thrown out in favor of being told i'm a cryptoterf and to kill myself...for posting screenshots of a trans man being transphobic and using the socialization argument? how is being irritated with other TME people's hypocritical arguments that use disguised "male/female socialization" language as a support for their hypotheticals an indication of terfism? i included one post from a popular trans women because in the tags because it had many likes & reblogs, and she likened random TME queer people she doesn't know on tiktok to real-world rapists when that's incredibly insensitive and cruel and was getting eyes that agreed on it.

i wasn't disagreeing with you, and i brought it up on isuggestfrcefems' post in response to you saying that about trans men because i do research and have been gathering data on terfs/radfems for a thesis on trans men and trans women's experiences with "dual-citizenship" in the nontrans society's hierarchal perception of gender vs. sex incongruence. unfortunately that means seeing a lot of really mean and shitty people. and in that, some of them will hide as cryptoterfs and masquerade as trans people to rile popular bloggers up (more eyes and ability to spread around information, which is imperative to terf marketing — word of mouth, verbally or by text, is one of the most powerful advertising strategies.) no one brought up trans women being male socialized aside from you, where people would see it out of context on a popular post and immediately draw conclusions from that. the post of mine in question was specifically about that rhetoric being largely condemned by trans and for nontrans people unless it can be covertly and reactionarily applied to trans men and transmascs as an acceptable target to express or test out bigoted rhetoric they can't otherwise enact which isn't a "gender locked" behavior in any way, it's just anonymous/online bully behavior, entirely gender neutral

[androphagy]

a point brought up by another: why is female/male socialization only "okay" to be used (without saying the words directly, because that'd be too overt of hypocrisy) when in relation to trans men and transmasc behavior, as well as slandering all transmascs/trans men as a whole for the behavior of a much smaller group? it's extremely disingenuous and hypocritical with how trans women and transfems have been fighting against that very same thing being done to them and this is by no means a transfem or trans woman only sentiment, it just hurts much more when it's other trans people saying it.

trans men who are outed, even if they passed prior to, face transphobia and misogyny from trans and nontrans people. trans men who don't pass face misogyny. trans men who are stealth to everyone but a select few better be white and well off. yes, those trans men can benefit from male privilege from looking or sounding like a cis male! i know i do, even with my effete appearance and short stature — i am usually only heard on the phone, and i have a deep voice! but it begs the question; are nontrans women with stereotypically masculine names like ryan or dylan benefitting from male privilege when they're treated better over email? do women with no access to HRT or ability to wear their preferred clothing benefit from male privilege? does a non passing transmasc have to either give up being trans to speak about misogyny and how it's affected them or "man up and take it", which is directly feeding into toxic masculinity...then it's okay to enforce, only if the target is (still a marginalized, derided, and targeted) not as dangerous as a cis man or woman, and thus can be derided/punished/bullied/harassed without the same risks and consequences. in an extreme example, what trans man or transmasc have you heard of suing and winning for defamation after being individually slandered?

how is this almost entirely on tumblr and not even "relatively small", it is small, group of abusive trans men/transmascs — you know, the site that's been mocked and derided for being the "vapid SJW annoying fandom teen girl" website for almost two decades by people on and off the site, IRL and online — allowed to set how trans men, transmascs, nonbinary people, questioning, and "cis" girls/women are treated and perceived online and IRL as vapid SJW annoying fandom girls (t)mras who are either weaponizing their femininity/not letting go of being female/too attached to being afab (???) (aka, the non-overt 'fuck terfs' way of saying "female socialization") and benefitting from male privilege and are a chauvinist misogynistic man/tboy who feels entitled to patriarchal power but can't fully access it so they take it out on all women (again, "male socialization" but worded carefully for plausible deniability.)

like this. comparing a random group of "TME queer people" on tiktok to...the very statistically backed rapes that are perpetuated by fraternities on women and men. these are popular posts! however you want to rationalize "it's just a few tens/hundreds/thousands of likes and reblogs" those reblogs are for the most part real people. can you imagine all of these people in a crowd cheering for this?

it's a sentiment i've been watching grow since i started exploring the internet at 13 after coming out at 11; people say "trans men really are the men of trans people" and claim that it's trans men and transmascs "misgendering themselves unable to let go of being female and unable to handle what manhood really is" when they're upset about sweeping accusation of them being entirely stupid, dumb, dangerous, and useless for anything but acting as stepping stones or carriers and scapegoats for other's intentional harm and mistakes.

this rhetoric is deeply transphobic and he is giving it a platform for worse, more transphobic people to gleefully continue to cement these extremely negative ideas about an entire demographic...which is bigotry.

like it's pivoted away from "fuck terfs" because said terfs have gotten enough leverage and attention to usually fuck over any type of trans person, trans women especially, to "fuck transmascs/trans men" because you know it's safer to take shots at people who can be positioned as dangerous and "could potentially join up with" terfs/ radfems/mras/whatever group is closest to the person in question because of their proximity to woman or manhood. there's a word for that when it's done to marginalized people — in close relation to this, what's done to transfems and trans women.

this isn't punching up. this is badjacketing, transphobia, misogyny — it's bullying. there is no progressive transphobia, especially when it's so obviously playing into and furthering the stereotype of "cringe young girls/women ruining spaces by not playing the right way" but with an extremely disingenuous disclaimer of "but i can pretend they're men so i can get away with it!"* in what world is a crab bucketing "finally! get them, not me" mentality a stable platform to base fairly large elements of an equal rights movement on

*this is obviously not me saying that trans men are pretending to be trans. i am saying that that's how they are viewed by a large majority of the world, trans and nontrans, as women. girls. "females." tomboys, dykes, vaginas, foids, cunts, losers, chauvinists, trenders, theyfabs, fakeboys, tbois, holes, bitches, troons, zippertits, meat, wombs, tenderqueers, tmes, afabs, tifs, pooners, babymakers or one of the other hundreds of gendered and trans-related epithets from all different groups who believe "they're just transitioning to get power and/or escape the patriarchy (and are shitty because they're not getting the power they think they're entitled to.)" i've seen that exact view shared and supported by alt-right nobody transphobes and popular trans people alike. i've heard so much fucking terf rhetoric that is straight up pinkwashed anti bodily autonomy fascist ideology thinly disguised as "anti MRA" (read: anti trans person is upset about being generalized as inherently dangerous) or "anti SJW" rhetoric that i don't even know what to do anymore. and it's trans men, transmascs, trans women, transfems, cis women, and cis men all participating! when does it get better! when are i, we, and they going to be treated as equal in sex and gender not just by those who advocate for feminism/transfeminism but by ourselves, sociological infrastructure, and our demographic as a whole!

[androphagy]

So.

Transfems absolutely do have it worse, at least in the West, at least in the U.S. It's no different than stating people of color have it worse than white people, really, imo, it makes sense, seeing the stats and the ways that transfems are horrifically exploited by the systems put in place and the ways society hates transfems far worse, it's quite difficult to try and claim that all trans people have it equally as bad.

My final opinions on "transandrophobia" are...

I don't agree with it, I don't agree with it as a word.

But I *do* think that there is *something* going on with transmascs and trans men that is specific to them that deserves to have a word. However I do not think it's transandrophobia.

I was thinking about the particular, specific kind of malgendering trans men experience that results in their discrimination and oppression and how this phenomenon is not just transphobia at least not really and it's not misogyny.

I think about how men have it better than women across the board due to the absence of misogyny and how for trans men, there *isn't* the absence of misogyny.

I think that since transmisogyny is more specifically "those who were AMAB transitioning towards femininity", a counter to that would be the opposite with regards to "those who were AFAB transitioning towards masculinity."

And how since transmisogyny is specifically a form of misogyny, perhaps there is credence in developing a term/theory surrounding the misogyny that people who were AFAB experience when they reject that birth assignment and/or transition away from it (even if that "transition" doesn't mean being trans so much as it means being GNC)

Anyways, these are my thoughts and I wonder if others have further thoughts/opinions/input.

[androphagy]

Bear with me here, as this got article-length, but something odd I've noticed in radfem/TERF spaces is that when women AFAB have masculine features out of their control (a wide/strong jaw, broad shoulders, deeper voices) they're either vilified or praised depending on their proximity to femininity and their subversion of it. For instance, a hyperfeminine woman with broad shoulders and a wide jaw is met with suspicion of being "secretly transgender", but a butch GNC woman with visible body hair and a deep voice is seen as brave and going against traditional beauty standards. Both women are AFAB, but their proximity to womanhood is doubted by women and men alike due to features out of their control, and then if they embrace or deny "traditional" gender presentation. This of course is denied to woman AMAB — just the fact that she has a penis bars her from womanhood, regardless of what else she does to pass, even if she's outed and was otherwise assumed to be AFAB until that point.

That got me thinking, though, and in looking up influential figures in radfeminism and TERF circles (Dworkin & Beauvoir for instance) I realized that a lot of these women's appearances, especially older women, are very similar to prominent older trans women. For a specific example, Dr. Rachel Levine (who was the assistant head of The Department of Health in the US) is a trans woman who, first and foremost, looks like the "average" older woman getting groceries at my local supermarket — but she also holds many of the same external features as Dworkin, who was AFAB. They even dressed somewhat similarly; while Dr. Rachel Levine tends to wear dresses and Andrea Dworkin preferred her overalls, it makes sense that she wears dresses and skirts when she's in such a public position and already under so much scrutiny. Conforming to the "female professional" expectation of dresses and skirts is doing exactly the same that other women born AFAB are doing when they wear high heels and makeup to work.

Dworkin on the left, Levine on the right.

Dr. Levine is older than Dworkin in this photo, but you can see that they carry many of the same physical features; and both are advocating for feminism and equality via their respective knowledge & fields of research. I've seen this phenomenon in every layer of visible society — in my example here, Dworkin is decried by misogynist men for being feminist at all, and mistrusted by other feminists for some of the rhetoric she developed and contributed to. Dr. Levine is hated for much the same reason; disrespected by misogynistic men for her relation to femininity and position of power, and further disrespected by self-professed feminists for not being AFAB, despite "meeting criteria" in every other way.

There's much more that I would like to say in that vein, but it mostly comes down to the fact that "these trans women and transfems who just want to be little anime girls" are doing exactly what modern women and girls have been doing for ages; they're identifying with a standard of femininity that is almost always unattainable, and as they age, they become more sure of themselves and grow into women as a people instead of woman as a goal. This happens with women and girls AFAB all the time! Disney princesses, magical girls á la Sailor Moon, the emulation of "Ghibli movie" aesthetics, e-girl fashion, I could go on — but the point is is that most women AMAB have to do puberty all over again, so when their goals or wishes being out of sync with the "usual" development timeline, she should not be disrespected, devalued, or classified as anything other than having a later start than what's typical. I see TERFS and radfeminists frustrated about wanting to heal their inner child, to get another chance, to not have grown up so fast; and they (usually) only have one puberty!

Women, whether they're AFAB, AMAB, and/or non-perisex, are not immune to performing misogynistic stereotypes to validate their own femininity or put down others who don't fill their role as "woman" well enough. As I began in my initial paragraph, women AFAB are under intense scrutiny for the balance of masculinity and femininity they frequently have to uphold and discard dependent on the men around them's wishes and ideals, whether it be because of the physical presence of a man or simply the public social dynamic's weight on her shoulders; and when a woman AMAB does the same in following stereotypes for affirmation or exploration, as is with ALL women who live in these dynamics, she should not be met with any more derision or confrontation than you would someone AFAB. But systemic misogyny is so pervasive that even in the most pro-women radical feminist groups, they're quick to (once again, from the introductory paragraph) dismiss and deride her for non-standard or too-standard womanhood — despite that being the most commonly agreed on sentiment in radfem ideology being that women need to have trust in, rely on, and uplift each other under the boot of near-constant patriarchal expectations and coercion.

In a time where women AMAB and non-perisex women are a socially-acceptable scapegoat and convenient target for framing/harassment/abuse when things go wrong (and usually even when things are the same as they have been, no "problem" needed to kick off the misogyny), the belief that they are predators in wait is just another way that those that enforce the patriarchy are happily kicking the ladder out from under feminists and feminism. Having women AFAB do most of the dirty work for them, as usual, allows the patriarchal enforcers to also blame them for the transphobia; a common phrase I see is "but the females want their own spaces away from males too!", which puts the burden of belief on "females" as a whole and not as individuals. Transphobia is a tactic that is working so well for the patriarchy that they've been able to entirely defang and discount feminism as a serious movement by simply sowing the seeds of mistrust. For instance, someone saying "I can't tell if this person in the woman's bathroom is transgender, I'm calling the police/security" and contributing to the sexual trauma of a fellow women AFAB, which they claim to be staunchly against — it's not accidental for the patriarchy! The mistrust is there to allow for more plausible deniability to enact misogynistic violence against women! And when women AMAB get brutalized, assaulted, abused, scapegoated, murdered, framed — TERFS and radfeminists around them ignore that it's misogynistic violence and bigotry by rationalizing it with assigned sex at birth. Whatever the reason may be, it doesn't change the fact that women AFAB are watching women AMAB get the same and worse treatment as them for factors out of their control and rationalizing it the exact same way misogynistic men enforcing patriarchal rule are.

When someone tries to ask "what is a woman", or says "define woman", "a woman is an adult human female" as a gotcha!, they are denying the material reality of historical culture and social dynamics in favor of framing a "scientific truth" that's conveniently had the historical context and medical misogyny snipped away. But because that isn't a snappy slogan and doesn't fit on a T-shirt, anti-intellectualism reigns supreme; again, you see this commonly in political and individualism. If it's nuanced or can't be broken down into a couple of words, it's largely dismissed.

A woman is the individual and community, not a stringent classification of a monolith. Saying "a woman is female" is similar to saying "a woman is blood type O+". Yes, it means that women AFAB need care (in this case, a matching transfusion) specific to their biological make-up and is the most common "type", but it's discounting the needs and variations of other women who don't have O+ type blood brought on by simply being human. Some women will need uterus-specific care, some will have hysterectomies and go on estrogen being AFAB, some will have vaginal re/constructive surgery regardless of if they're AMAB, AFAB, or non-perisex. Women with PCOS and DSDs can have similar healthcare paths as women who are doing HRT and/or going through menopause.

While this has already gotten entirely too long, I would like to say as a reminder that of course people do bad things. Women AMAB are not exempt from the dynamics which lead to enacting harm because they're women — however, they're also constantly spoke about as a potential threat, as women always are; the reminder itself is a misogynistic and transphobic jab saying "you're one of the good ones for now, but if you slip up you know what will happen to you." Of course predatory men will take advantage of a woman and her identity, AFAB or AMAB — that happens in every marginalized group to gather support from the "in" so it's easier to ignore the "out." Think about the men that pretend to have daughters or wives to gain trust, or those that go into gynecology to violate those who need care. It's not trans women you're concerned about, it's predatory men, and women AMAB are only the most recent visible group of women being taken advantage of by them; and as they're women, they're being blamed as a whole for the actions of others.

[androphagy]

this got extremely long, so i don't expect much viewer retention, but the issue is that you framed it as "women's clothing", not just your clothing. you then heavily imply in your second bullet point that you don't wear it anymore ("i wore when i was 14"), and since you just noticed your sibling wearing the clothing in a photo i guess you didn't necessarily miss or notice it either? but that's not the point, i know, the point is that they didn't ask.

that aside, what's the issue with their prior girlfriend(s) borrowing the clothing? that's what i'm most confused about here. you're not outright "calling him a creep"...but you specifically say women's clothes, that you feel sick about it, you mention it was from when you were 14 and that their girlfriends wore it too...i still wear the same small D&D shirt from when i was 12, and i wore the coat i got from an ex girlfriend when i was 15 and she was 17 until a few months ago. that's obviously not creepy; clothes are just clothes, and especially when you go on google dot com and these are the results for the "skimpy clothing" brand in question:

it's boring standard euro summer fashion which you would not even blink at if your sibling was afab. maybe some eye rolling or a frustrated post about your sister being annoying and taking your clothes, as happens with all siblings, but "i feel sick" wouldn't even cross your mind. whichever way that you want to posture how you would totally go for your sibling wearing dresses, a look at your blog shows that you're deeply enmired in terf rhetoric, so it's not entirely surprising that they didn't come to you. it's usually clear to decent folk that lgbt people aren't vapid airheads only capable of having sexual ulterior motives or being brainwashed by Big Trans — but that would require you accepting that trans men, trans women, and cis women (including gnc/masc cis women! no one is non binary just because of their aesthetic presentation, which i've seen as a angry terf sticking point about how all of our gnc girls are being transed!) are all people, marginalized people, and a part of furthering feminism. and we can tell when it's faux-support that shuts off like switch when we're not around, if you want our version of "we can always tell."

it's not about decentering the "male" anatomy/body itself — it's decentering the historical and social dynamics that now allow cis men to act with impunity in making misogyny the baseline and any "nice" treatment is a privilege, not a right, and breaking that patriarchal infrastructure down until male/female is seen as no different than blood type, with the proper medical attention that comes with having differing blood types. misogyny is what allows predatory cis (even if they're gnc!) men — not trans women, or trans men — to use marginalized identities as a scapegoat.

you could also try talking to them about being upset about the clothing. honestly, i think that if your sibling had been afab you'd instead be mocking them for the trans fundraiser itself — they're in a lose-lose situation with you. maybe there's a reason they didn't ask to wear the clothes you hadn't worn for a while and were maybe hoping you'd forgotten about.

trans women can be bad people and do bad things. no one needs to rehash this, it's said constantly. a hypervisible community that's assumed to be predatory at best of course is going to have a "higher crime rate"; or does that only apply to every other marginalized community except for trans people? the judicial system will lie. law enforcement lies constantly. "planting evidence" is such a pervasive method of targeting individuals that there are jokes made about it in blockbuster kid's movies. those long lists of articles people compile about "TIMs" and mockingly saying "it never happens" are riddled with unreliable sensationalized clickbait articles written by neofascists, the links are broken or sites are no longer up, or the person in question is straight up not trans, but there's enough plausible deniability with the "radical" assumption that a trans woman could be anything but predatory that when coupled with the rest of the articles no one even checks.

at the end of the day, there will always be bad people doing bad things. things that are fundamentally bad, like hurting children, and things that you personally find morally repugnant, whatever that may be. the predatory men you and yours are rightfully concerned about (i found your blog during a rabbit hole i went down about what terfs on tumblr are up to these days) should be the focal point of this entire argument; not all trans women are bad and can be scapegoated because they're "male", but instead why are these men once again scapegoating these women that are already at a disadvantage? is it really that radical to put other women down?

My brother just sent my family chat a bunch of photos of him at a trans fundraiser in women’s clothing… my fucking clothing. He didn’t ask for permission before taking it with him to university. I feel sick.

[androphagy]

can someone explain exactly why the transmasc/trans man lesbian label isn't transphobic? because it's working off of either

a. they identified as a lesbian beforehand and still connect with the label, but want neutral/masculine pronouns and a masculine presentation beyond the "usual" butch features (ie taking testosterone, getting top surgery); usually coupled with the idea that straight men are always predatory/dangerous

or

b. just being afab is enough, no matter the presentation or gender identity of the person, to count as a lesbian and describe attraction to women — any of the above described features (testosterone, top surgery, etc) don't matter because the assigned sex at birth/being "female" cancels out masculinity/manhood

both are rooted in misgendering themselves and others, clinging onto being "safe" (read: afab) despite every other aspect of their identity, and following that, utilizing their assigned sex at birth as a reason for deflecting blame/as a shield/to seem like a "safer" form of loving women simply due to their birth sex.

you don't have to identify as a man/trans man/transmasc if you want to be masculine; that's what the term butch originated in. calling yourself a man and medically transitioning to further resemble a cis man but clinging onto your birth sex is antithetical to transition as a whole; you're essentially saying "everything i'm doing to transition doesn't matter, because my birth sex means i'm still with the pre-transition group i was a part of!"

being a straight or bisexual man doesn't make you predatory, it's your actions that decide that. if you're correctly identified as a man or mistaken as a cis man then get angry about a woman (identifying as any variety of cis/trans/gnc) being uncomfortable around you or not wanting to get with you, despite your birth sex...maybe look into why you feel entitled to them. look into why you want to be a man at all. why is it that you can change your name, pronouns, presentation, and social dynamic but not a previous label of attraction? why is your attraction to women as a trans man/transmasc different than that of a cis man's? and if the answer is "well i was a girl so i understand them better and have more of a/an inherently queer connection", as i've frequently heard, that's just called "trying to be respectful" — which usually isn't even the case when defending how their version of objectifying women is more pure or safer than a cis man's.

[androphagy]

to put it extremely simply: try and put yourself into the shoes of a trans woman or transfeminine person in a world where rupaul's drag race is in the forefront of most people's minds in or tangential to this discussion of "queer media"/queer visibility. no nuance, no whataboutism, just close your eyes and imagine that and what that implies beyond the personal indignation of "but trans men/transmascs have it hard too"

[androphagy]

it rlly does feel like these ppl just see other ppl as categories - either “slurs i can call you” or “slurs you can call me” and isnt that sad?? defining your whole existence around what slurs you think can be applicable to you? calling other people slurs because you feel like the only way to meaningfully engage with other queers is to be as demeaning as possible?

yeah, that about sums up my feelings on it too. imo the whole queer = counterculture thing has done quite a bit of damage in how tme people conceptualize our oppression, in that the ones who are doing the counterculture are always on the "right" side of things when that's categorically untrue. neofascist punk skinhead bs is counterculture, and that's obviously a shitty stance to take (to put it mildly.) all counterculture means is "a group that goes against the norm" and that can be further dependent on what time period you're in, where you're located, etc

[androphagy]

the whole transmisogynist argument of "oh I totally believe trans women are women but we have to have this women's space be 'afab only' because what if a cis man pretends to be a trans woman?" is so foundationally, unarguably misogynist.

it's a rhetorical argument; this hypothetical is created specifically to justify excluding women from women's spaces. you are making shit up to be discriminatory towards women. so, misogynist.

even if it ever happened, admitting straightforwardly that your gender politics are such that you discriminate against and punish women because of men's actions is uh.. as anti-feminist a politic as I could dream up. holding women responsible for men's actions is like foundational to patriarchal social structuring. this is literally just patriarchy.

many men are assigned female at birth, so you are literally not interested in a women's space anyway. likely because you (cis women) primarily view trans men as men you can exert power over. your cis feminism is more concerned with creating spaces where you have gendered power over others than it is with organizing to overthrow gendered power. be serious, you love the hierarchy. you just want to be on top.

if you truly believed cis men were pretending to be trans in order to enter women's spaces, it would be way easier on a practical level for a cis man to pretend to be a trans man than to pretend to be a trans woman. he wouldn't have to change his appearance, clothing, body language, ways of speaking, or learn to respond to a different name or new pronouns to do it. he could literally just walk in as himself.

[androphagy]

while i still have my hands on the baseball bat, maybe tumblr can solve this or offer some new points of view:

why do so many tme people attracted to women (trans, cis, anyone who defines themselves as such) use their sexuality or asab as a defense for misogynistic behavior? for a example i've seen he/they transmasc lesbians (paraphrased) say "i was born afab and that means i have an inherent attachment to lesbianism. i experience it in a way that's only definable by masculinity" to explain it, which is...super weird to me. or people who act as if their attraction to trans women means they're not also/can't be transmisogynistic.

i think radical inclusion/be whatever you want forever isn't a "slippery slope", as people try to claim is what is being said (and is thus the reason to defend he/him lesbians, for one example.) i think it's much closer to the frustration of Words Mean Things and "lesbianism is inherently a vagina-tethered concept, and doing everything like taking T, getting top surgery, and using he/him pronouns has nothing to do with being a man" being an extremely irritating and transphobic stance to take.

[androphagy]

theyfab ultimate challenge: talk to someone without calling them a slur… FAILED!

@ftmtftm called me the t-slur twice doing an impression of me and quoting words they made up for me to say in a mocking tone. are you sure your 4channer days are over?

the concern trolling is also a key component of this behavior...it's that one post over and over again: "i can't experience privilege/benefit from oppression, im literally nice! and then they're not even nice"